9 Traits to Cultivate a Fruitful Marriage: Faithfulness

[00:00:00] .

[00:00:01] Integrity in who we are because the Spirit of Christ dwells in us and he upholds every

[00:00:06] single vow that he makes.

[00:00:09] That's what we're talking about with faithfulness.

[00:00:12] Well hello and welcome back to the Trim the Wick podcast.

[00:00:14] I'm Dan.

[00:00:15] And I'm Becky.

[00:00:16] And we are glad that you are with us again this week and we've got something this week

[00:00:21] I'm super excited about because we've been going through this list of the nine traits

[00:00:29] to cultivate a fruitful marriage.

[00:00:30] It's taken out of Galatians chapter five, right?

[00:00:33] Yep.

[00:00:34] That's been our series here that we've been doing and I'm excited for these last three

[00:00:40] that we're on because not only are they actions there's more to it than that.

[00:00:47] They're also culmination of all the other ones that lead up to it.

[00:00:51] Right.

[00:00:52] We've been talking about how they're kind of building blocks to one another.

[00:00:54] Right.

[00:00:55] And this is where that kind of pinnacle.

[00:00:58] These last three is kind of where you take the first six and put all of those into practice

[00:01:04] and this is where it kind of, to me, it kind of comes together in the last three.

[00:01:09] So faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

[00:01:12] Yeah.

[00:01:14] And so we're going to break these down into the three things.

[00:01:17] We're going to do this over the next three weeks.

[00:01:19] So again, we are so grateful that you're with us this week.

[00:01:24] Thank you so much for being a part of Trim the Wick and our podcast and what we're doing

[00:01:28] and we're glad to do this.

[00:01:31] So before we go, if you haven't heard the other podcasts, let's do a quick little recap

[00:01:39] back and kind of give an overview of number one of that verse and why this is so important

[00:01:45] in our marriages.

[00:01:47] Okay.

[00:01:48] So let's start where we started right in those verses because we found everything

[00:01:51] on the scripture.

[00:01:52] Right.

[00:01:53] It's a great foundation to build on.

[00:01:55] So in Galatians chapter five, in verse 22 we find, but the fruit of the spirit is love,

[00:02:01] joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

[00:02:10] Against such things there is no law.

[00:02:12] And we've been talking about that that verse has been used if you've been in Christianity

[00:02:18] for any length of time, you've heard the verse and you've heard it used as,

[00:02:22] you know, these should be the things that we operate in in the church.

[00:02:27] These are the things that we should operate in, you know, kind of in our Christian service,

[00:02:32] right?

[00:02:33] In ministry, these things should be who you are and what's this fruit of the spirit

[00:02:38] should be in your life.

[00:02:39] But the reality is, is that if you're a believer in Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

[00:02:43] dwells in you, these fruits should be present in your day to day life.

[00:02:51] And if you're a married couple, this spirit and this fruit is what you should be exemplifying

[00:02:57] towards one another in your marriage.

[00:03:00] Right.

[00:03:01] Well, and I've always kind of heard it taught and even I've read through some things where

[00:03:06] is that these are things that we should be striving for, like we should actually be

[00:03:11] trying to produce these things ourselves.

[00:03:14] I love that phrase you just used, trying to produce, right?

[00:03:17] Because if it's fruit, have you seen an apple tree just sit there and go,

[00:03:20] I'm going to make an apple now.

[00:03:22] Right, you know.

[00:03:23] And but it's almost like it's like, well, if you're not showing love, you're not doing

[00:03:28] Christianity right.

[00:03:29] If you're not showing, if you don't have peace in your life, you clearly have, you

[00:03:34] know, you're you're not doing Christianity right when the whole thing is that these

[00:03:39] are produced when the Holy Spirit is in us and isn't working in us.

[00:03:45] So it's not a thing of like, I'm trying to produce peace.

[00:03:49] It's like, no, I'm trying to get closer to Jesus.

[00:03:52] I'm allowing the Holy Spirit to work in me and through me.

[00:03:57] And when I do that, peace is produced.

[00:03:59] Peace grows right because it's a natural outgrowth.

[00:04:03] That apple tree started off as a seed and it had all the DNA.

[00:04:07] We got some hawks over.

[00:04:10] Yeah, we've got a hawk that's just excited.

[00:04:15] So you know, we're outside again this week and we're enjoying the outside

[00:04:19] Florida spring weather.

[00:04:21] And so you're going to hear some birds and some different things in the background.

[00:04:25] But don't be alarmed unless we start getting attacked by the hawk.

[00:04:29] I think we'll be okay.

[00:04:30] We'll be good.

[00:04:31] So but anyway, so back to our apple tree.

[00:04:34] So that that apple tree started off with a seed that had all the DNA to become

[00:04:38] an apple tree.

[00:04:39] Right.

[00:04:40] And it that seed was nurtured and grew and became an apple tree.

[00:04:46] And because of the nutrients flowing up through its roots, because of, because it

[00:04:51] was rooted and grounded like the same way we're supposed to be rooted and grounded

[00:04:55] in Christ, it was rooted and grounded receiving all those nutrients it needed.

[00:05:00] And in due season, it flowered and then fruited.

[00:05:06] And that's, that's the Christian life, right?

[00:05:10] It's not something that we have to sit there and work really hard at being, it's the DNA

[00:05:14] that's inside of us combined with the, the nutrients of the word and the spirit at

[00:05:20] work in us.

[00:05:21] Right.

[00:05:22] That just produce fruit.

[00:05:23] And not only has it been something that has been taught that we're supposed to

[00:05:28] force ourself into being, it has also been taught that these things, these, this

[00:05:33] Christian life is for use in some form of formalized organized ministry setting.

[00:05:41] Right? When we go to church, we behave this way towards each other.

[00:05:44] Right.

[00:05:45] We have to understand that this, this was God's design from the beginning for humanity

[00:05:52] in relationship with himself.

[00:05:55] And since the marriage is a picture, an earthly picture of the union with God,

[00:06:02] this lifestyle, this outgrowth of fruit is supposed to be who we are in our homes.

[00:06:10] Right.

[00:06:11] It's the foundation for who we are in our church buildings and in our business

[00:06:14] buildings.

[00:06:15] Exactly.

[00:06:16] Exactly.

[00:06:17] And in, this is where I think that when we talk about in marriages, we talk about

[00:06:22] how it is hard work.

[00:06:24] There is hard work in marriage.

[00:06:26] There is a lot of things that you have to do and you have to make the, the

[00:06:30] coming together of two homes or, or two people and two lives to come together and then you

[00:06:36] add children and stuff.

[00:06:37] So, so they're, we're not saying there's no work.

[00:06:39] Right.

[00:06:40] Because cultivation is a thing.

[00:06:41] Right.

[00:06:42] The apple tree is going to be an apple tree, but you have to keep the pests off of it.

[00:06:44] Right.

[00:06:45] You have to keep the branches trimmed.

[00:06:46] There's work.

[00:06:47] Right.

[00:06:48] There's lots of work that has to be done.

[00:06:49] So that's not what we're not saying that there's no work.

[00:06:52] But what we're saying is that to really produce these things, to really have peace

[00:06:59] in your marriage, to have that love that's overflowing and it's not something that you're

[00:07:04] going to be able to just conjure up.

[00:07:06] Right.

[00:07:07] You're not, you're not going to be able to do the right formula of buying, you know,

[00:07:12] chocolate and, and roses and stuff that's going to, you know, those things are good,

[00:07:16] but that's not what's going to make it.

[00:07:18] Right.

[00:07:19] It is going to be this relying on God and becoming closer and closer to him that

[00:07:25] allows this fruit of the spirit, the spirit to work through you and in you to produce these

[00:07:31] things.

[00:07:32] And this is where, to me, where I think what we're going to talk about today, faithfulness,

[00:07:37] is where it all comes together.

[00:07:41] Where we're getting this faithfulness, people talk about, okay, I'm faithful, which means,

[00:07:46] oh, I'm not having sex outside of marriage.

[00:07:50] Right.

[00:07:51] That's kind of the catch-all definition that people think of, right?

[00:07:53] I'm faithful, so.

[00:07:54] I'm a leading honor.

[00:07:55] So we're good.

[00:07:56] And you've heard these horrible phrases, oh, I can see but not touch.

[00:07:59] I can, doesn't matter as long as I don't actually do the deed.

[00:08:03] And, and you hear, I've, you know, over the years in talking with people in the church

[00:08:08] and out of the church, every justification to just go right up to the edge of the

[00:08:13] fence, right up to the line and go, well, at least I didn't do it.

[00:08:17] So I'm faithful to my wife.

[00:08:20] Well, that's not at all.

[00:08:23] Let's put it this way.

[00:08:24] What is part of it is the actual being faithful and not doing it, but it's so much more because

[00:08:31] being faithful is a character trait.

[00:08:33] Right.

[00:08:34] It's more than just an abstention.

[00:08:37] It's, again, it's a fruit.

[00:08:40] It's an outgrowth of who you are.

[00:08:42] Right.

[00:08:43] Being faithful is not just not having sex with someone outside of the marriage.

[00:08:47] Being faithful is what your thought life.

[00:08:51] Are you faithful to your spouse when you talk to them?

[00:08:54] Are you lying to them constantly?

[00:08:56] Are you covering things up?

[00:08:58] Do you say things like, um, we're not going to tell mom about this or we're not going

[00:09:03] to tell dad about this.

[00:09:04] Right.

[00:09:05] So it's not just, it's not limited and boxed around just that sexual realm of marriage.

[00:09:11] It's, it's faithfulness in everything.

[00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:14] We made vows to one another before God.

[00:09:16] Right.

[00:09:18] And said, I'm, I'm going to love you.

[00:09:20] I'm going to honor you.

[00:09:22] I'm going to cherish you.

[00:09:24] I'm going to respect and obey you.

[00:09:27] I'm going to defer to you.

[00:09:31] I'm going to be with you when you're sick and when you're well.

[00:09:35] I'm going to uphold you and, and fight by your side if we're poor or if we have a

[00:09:42] lot.

[00:09:43] We made vows and faithfully upholding those vows because it is an innate integrity in

[00:09:55] who we are because the spirit of Christ dwells in us.

[00:09:58] And he upholds every single vow that he makes.

[00:10:03] That's what we're talking about with faithfulness.

[00:10:05] Yep.

[00:10:06] And again, we gotta remember God the father, Jesus and the Holy spirit is the same.

[00:10:11] Right.

[00:10:12] Okay?

[00:10:13] So the same God being faithful and being a faithful God is the same faithfulness we are

[00:10:22] now given as a fruit.

[00:10:23] Right.

[00:10:24] That's supposed to be the outgrowth.

[00:10:25] As he is faithful, so are we to be.

[00:10:28] This idea it's just that I'm not doing thing or the XYZ thing.

[00:10:33] I'm not actively sinning against him, right?

[00:10:36] Right.

[00:10:37] It does not mean that I'm being faithful.

[00:10:39] Right.

[00:10:40] We were talking about this the other day and we're talking about the, you know, getting

[00:10:44] in the circle of friends and you start talking bad about your spouse.

[00:10:49] Right.

[00:10:50] Where you're not, you know, you're not gonna get up in front of a crowd and talk bad about

[00:10:54] them or you're not, but if you're, you know, sitting around having a cup of tea or sitting

[00:10:59] around, you know, around the water cooler and you're talking about your wife and

[00:11:04] murdering their character, you're not being faithful to your spouse.

[00:11:08] Right.

[00:11:09] You're throwing them under the bus.

[00:11:10] Y'all can, can we get real for a minute?

[00:11:12] I am a woman who has been in the church since I was a little kid.

[00:11:17] Okay.

[00:11:18] I've been invited to all the ladies Bible studies and I gotta be honest for a lot of

[00:11:23] years quit going to ladies Bible studies because of this kind of stuff because we

[00:11:30] would go and you're sitting in a group and you're looking to edify and build one

[00:11:35] another up right in a Bible study is a ladies Bible study.

[00:11:38] Right.

[00:11:39] At the church hall and what it became in a lot of cases was an outlet for two very

[00:11:45] specific points of unfaithfulness in marriages.

[00:11:50] It was character assassination, airing all of the faults and flaws of their spouses

[00:11:56] and license to talk about whoever their latest celebrity crush was.

[00:12:03] Come on ladies that is not faithfulness.

[00:12:05] Right.

[00:12:06] That is not faithfulness.

[00:12:07] It is, it is more than just oh I would never.

[00:12:11] It is I would not look.

[00:12:12] I literally do not have eyes for anyone but my husband.

[00:12:17] Right.

[00:12:18] Not because I've put blinders on and I'm fighting the temptation all day every

[00:12:23] day but because it is my heart and my eyes and everything about who I am is

[00:12:33] turned towards my husband.

[00:12:37] Because of who I am because I am faithful in the same way that God is

[00:12:43] faithful.

[00:12:44] Right.

[00:12:45] I don't even look elsewhere.

[00:12:46] Right.

[00:12:47] Because I don't have the desire to.

[00:12:50] Yep.

[00:12:51] I don't want any hint of separation in my thoughts.

[00:12:56] It's just not something I desire.

[00:12:58] Right.

[00:12:59] And again you know we're looking at faithfulness as not just a thing

[00:13:03] that you do or don't do but we're looking at faithfulness as a character trait.

[00:13:09] Right.

[00:13:10] If you say something to your wife and you're I'm going to do this then

[00:13:15] you need to do it.

[00:13:16] Yeah.

[00:13:17] If you say you love her, if you cherish her, if you care about her above all

[00:13:21] others well then your character needs to show that through not just in the

[00:13:29] sexual part of it but also in how you treat her when she's not there.

[00:13:34] Absolutely.

[00:13:35] Because that's a huge one and that's true faithfulness.

[00:13:39] You can always know that we can go back to God because of his faithfulness.

[00:13:44] Right.

[00:13:45] We know when we're in trouble, when we mess up, we can go back to God.

[00:13:49] We know God loves us and God cares about us and he's going to be there for us

[00:13:52] because he's faithful.

[00:13:54] A lot of times in marriages and relationships a husband or spouse messes

[00:13:58] up or does something wrong they then turn around and start hiding it from their

[00:14:02] wives or their husbands because they know that not that they messed up but

[00:14:09] they know that other spouse is not faithful.

[00:14:12] To receive them in a spirit of reconciliation.

[00:14:14] Exactly.

[00:14:15] Yeah.

[00:14:16] You know just like God does and we got to remember you know a marriage

[00:14:18] is not just between a man and a woman the marriage is between man, woman

[00:14:23] and God.

[00:14:24] Right.

[00:14:25] And so God's in the middle of it.

[00:14:26] So all these things come together.

[00:14:29] We talked about you know having that love for one another.

[00:14:32] Well that love and loving your spouse that's the basic.

[00:14:36] Right.

[00:14:37] You know and then it builds and it builds and it builds to where because

[00:14:42] of that love I have for her let's put it this way because of that love I have

[00:14:45] for you I am faithful to you not just that I don't have sex with other people

[00:14:50] not that I'm not going to just cut your character down but I'm going to keep my

[00:14:55] thoughts reigned in which is a whole another thing now.

[00:14:59] Now we're talking your favorite passage and your lifers the Philippians for

[00:15:05] you know we're going to keep our our thoughts and our our brain reigned in.

[00:15:11] On whatsoever things are true and lovely and pure and right.

[00:15:14] And we're going to focus those things on our spouse.

[00:15:17] So I'm faithful in my thought life to ward you in about you.

[00:15:21] That's part of faithfulness.

[00:15:23] Yeah.

[00:15:24] It's not just OK I'm going to you know I'm going to put up with you but

[00:15:28] I'm going to I am going to think the best of you.

[00:15:33] Right.

[00:15:34] I am going to choose even as the father does I'm going to choose when

[00:15:41] you do have faults and flaws I'm going to choose grace and mercy on those.

[00:15:47] I'm going to choose reconciliation when we have a fight and I'm going to

[00:15:51] choose to faithfully forgive and let those things go and not hold them

[00:15:58] against you forever.

[00:15:59] Right.

[00:16:00] Because that's part of dealing with you faithfully.

[00:16:03] Yes.

[00:16:04] And again once you start working in that realm you know basically once

[00:16:12] you start operating in that things like forgiveness things like carrying

[00:16:18] each other's burdens and helping each other and serving one another and

[00:16:22] sacrificing to one another.

[00:16:24] You see how all of this works for the better of the marriage.

[00:16:30] Right.

[00:16:30] And it just keeps making it get better and better and better because I

[00:16:35] understand you know if you had a spouse that's not faithful protect

[00:16:40] you to love you you know is not faithful to honor you and all those

[00:16:44] things you're going to quickly lose hope.

[00:16:48] Because you've lost trust.

[00:16:50] And you're going to lose trust.

[00:16:51] You can't trust this person that said I'm going to be with you I'm

[00:16:55] going to consistently show up and when I show up I'm going to

[00:16:59] consistently be on your team seeking your best.

[00:17:03] Right.

[00:17:03] That's what I vowed right.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:07] And if you can't trust that you do lose hope.

[00:17:10] Yep.

[00:17:10] I know I've seen that in so many marriages and talked with people

[00:17:15] and they're when you start hearing those words you know that I don't

[00:17:20] trust that I just I don't think he cares about me.

[00:17:24] It breaks your heart because you know it went all the way back to this

[00:17:28] thing of faithfulness.

[00:17:30] It does it all goes back to they were not being faithful to one

[00:17:33] another or and it has broken down.

[00:17:36] When there was a time in our marriage that we were not being

[00:17:41] faithful in that way to one another.

[00:17:43] Yeah.

[00:17:43] It was not over active sin in either of our lives.

[00:17:46] We weren't seeking things outside the marriage.

[00:17:48] We weren't going to other people.

[00:17:50] We weren't it was not that kind of lack of faithfulness.

[00:17:53] In fact this is going to make some of y'all out there kind of

[00:17:57] cringe and go oh I didn't know that was even a thing.

[00:18:00] It was lack of faithfulness to one of one another because we

[00:18:05] were focused instead on being faithful to our roles and positions

[00:18:10] in the church body.

[00:18:12] Right.

[00:18:13] And so we had traded faithfulness to one another and making sure

[00:18:19] that we were consistently there consistently upholding

[00:18:22] consistently checking in consistently loving and cherishing

[00:18:26] and honoring one another because we were doing all those

[00:18:29] things for the church first.

[00:18:32] Right.

[00:18:32] And we lost sight that the marriage was where we had made

[00:18:36] those vows.

[00:18:37] Right.

[00:18:37] And listen the church body is a wonderful thing and extended

[00:18:41] church family is amazing and beautiful and necessary and I

[00:18:44] am so grateful that God designed us to live in those

[00:18:47] communities but it is not a replacement for the marriage.

[00:18:53] Right.

[00:18:53] And what we found ourselves doing is that when something

[00:18:58] would hurt you know if you were gone too long doing

[00:19:01] youth ministry things and I was drowning in single

[00:19:05] parenting for children.

[00:19:06] Right.

[00:19:07] I would not share where I really was with you.

[00:19:10] Right.

[00:19:11] Because I was afraid that the marriage didn't actually come

[00:19:16] first for you.

[00:19:18] I was afraid that we were not actually two that had become

[00:19:22] one in that area.

[00:19:24] I was afraid that the ministry we used this phrase

[00:19:27] when we were hashing through this that the ministry

[00:19:29] had become your mistress.

[00:19:30] Right.

[00:19:32] And it was a horrible time in our marriage.

[00:19:34] Yeah.

[00:19:34] It really was.

[00:19:35] Big struggle.

[00:19:36] Yeah.

[00:19:37] But likewise you didn't feel that I was safe to receive

[00:19:40] you either precisely because I wasn't sharing myself

[00:19:43] with you.

[00:19:44] Right.

[00:19:44] I wasn't letting you know where I was.

[00:19:46] There was really a wall that was being built.

[00:19:48] Yeah.

[00:19:48] It was painful for both of us.

[00:19:52] Well and before you know it there are secrets

[00:19:54] being kept and it's not a thing of I'm doing

[00:19:57] something so I'm hiding it was the emotional secrets.

[00:20:00] Right.

[00:20:01] That are being kept and you know you don't even

[00:20:04] you don't share things.

[00:20:05] You know I remember in that whole time period

[00:20:08] that there were times I would come home and something

[00:20:10] awesome would happen with the youth or whatever

[00:20:13] and I would come home and I would be afraid to share it

[00:20:16] or not even share it at all.

[00:20:18] I didn't want to put that on you or tell you

[00:20:21] something that you missed out on or whatever.

[00:20:24] Because I was home with the kids.

[00:20:25] Because you were home with the kids.

[00:20:27] Right.

[00:20:27] And there were just so many things.

[00:20:30] We're starting to become between us and honestly

[00:20:34] we were becoming unfaithful to each other.

[00:20:36] Right.

[00:20:37] But it wasn't that we were actively sending it was

[00:20:40] that we were not becoming one.

[00:20:42] Right.

[00:20:43] We were actually separating from each other even though

[00:20:47] everyone thought you know we would have a great marriage

[00:20:49] and we were great ministry couple and we were rocking

[00:20:52] and you know we had hundreds of students showing up

[00:20:55] and everything looked great on surface.

[00:20:58] But in our home we'd get home and there was such

[00:21:01] an emotional disconnect and such a distrust

[00:21:03] that was building and it was all you guys

[00:21:06] I really want you to hear this.

[00:21:08] It was not because of looking to other places

[00:21:12] and looking to other people and you know

[00:21:15] it was not because we were dissatisfied with one

[00:21:18] another.

[00:21:19] It was because we had put something other

[00:21:23] than each other first.

[00:21:25] Right.

[00:21:25] And it was because in the name of protecting one another

[00:21:31] from the truth we were holding things back

[00:21:34] from one another.

[00:21:34] Right.

[00:21:35] And if you are holding things back about who you are

[00:21:39] what you believe, what you're going through

[00:21:43] what you see in each other if you are holding

[00:21:45] those things back then you are not being

[00:21:48] one faithfully.

[00:21:49] Yeah.

[00:21:50] You know you don't see God holding back.

[00:21:53] You know Jesus says it.

[00:21:54] He says my prayer for you is that you would be one

[00:21:59] even as the Father and the Spirit and I are one.

[00:22:02] There is nothing between them.

[00:22:04] You know you see Jesus saying I do absolutely

[00:22:07] nothing that I don't hear my Father tell me to do.

[00:22:10] Right.

[00:22:10] And you read that the Spirit will teach us

[00:22:15] and say to us the same things that Jesus has said to us.

[00:22:20] They are innately unified.

[00:22:23] They are faithful to that bond.

[00:22:25] Yep.

[00:22:26] And if we don't have that faithfulness in our marriages

[00:22:30] we need to root that out.

[00:22:32] Right.

[00:22:32] And here's one of the things I wanted to kind of touch on

[00:22:35] on this because this is one of those ones

[00:22:37] it's like I feel like we need to give a little bit

[00:22:39] of practical on you know how it is this you know

[00:22:43] the first thing again is that this isn't a switch.

[00:22:47] This isn't something that like all of a sudden

[00:22:49] I'm just going to start making this active choice

[00:22:52] on this again.

[00:22:53] This is one of those things that is a fruit of the Spirit.

[00:22:55] I have the Holy Spirit to work in you to produce this

[00:23:00] but saying that there are things that we can do

[00:23:04] to help it to bring it forth.

[00:23:06] Right.

[00:23:07] So that it does give good fruit and stuff like that

[00:23:10] and I think the first thing is that if you're

[00:23:13] in that situation where you feel like you and your spouse

[00:23:17] are having that unfaithful it might not be something

[00:23:21] that you're an active sin against each other

[00:23:23] but there is a neglect of unfaithfulness to owner.

[00:23:27] The first thing is you've got to start talking.

[00:23:30] And it's terrifying.

[00:23:31] Yep.

[00:23:32] It really is.

[00:23:32] It's terrifying because you don't know how you're going

[00:23:34] to be received because there is a lack of trust.

[00:23:37] Right.

[00:23:37] And that's I think the hardest thing

[00:23:39] because people don't want to open up their emotions

[00:23:43] and not know what's going to be received.

[00:23:45] So before you talk you pray.

[00:23:47] Right.

[00:23:48] And this is where you're going to invite the Holy Spirit

[00:23:50] to come in to the conversation, to the meeting.

[00:23:53] And then this is where those things happen.

[00:23:55] Love, peace, joy.

[00:23:58] So you don't approach this conversation with an accusation.

[00:24:01] You approach this conversation with can we pray together first

[00:24:05] and then can I be real, real honest with you

[00:24:08] about something that's been going on with me?

[00:24:10] Right.

[00:24:12] Can I tell you where I'm hurting or where I'm yeah.

[00:24:17] Right.

[00:24:17] Well, and I mean that's almost exactly what we did.

[00:24:20] I mean that's how we did it is that we actually sat down

[00:24:22] and we had these conversations.

[00:24:24] It was not a single conversation.

[00:24:26] Yeah.

[00:24:26] And it was tough because we were going through,

[00:24:29] you know that was a time when I had lost my job.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:33] And kind of said I wasn't going to go back in the ministry

[00:24:36] ever again.

[00:24:38] And we were struggling financially.

[00:24:42] We were struggling.

[00:24:43] There was all these things.

[00:24:44] It was a lot.

[00:24:45] But at the base of it, we knew if we were going to go forward,

[00:24:50] we were going to have to trust each other

[00:24:53] and be faithful to each other.

[00:24:54] Right.

[00:24:54] And never had a problem with infidelity or anything

[00:24:57] like that in our marriage and stuff.

[00:24:59] But what it was was that emotionally we'd

[00:25:03] allowed things to separate us.

[00:25:04] Right.

[00:25:05] And to make us unfaithful.

[00:25:08] So we had to sit down and we had to start there

[00:25:10] and really just sit down and talk

[00:25:13] and honor one another in our conversation

[00:25:18] and be able to work through some of that.

[00:25:19] Yeah.

[00:25:20] And one of the very practical things

[00:25:22] that came out of that series of conversations over,

[00:25:26] gosh it was months.

[00:25:27] Because you'd get one thing where it's like OK,

[00:25:30] we've talked about this.

[00:25:32] We've asked each other's forgiveness

[00:25:34] and we've cried over it.

[00:25:36] And we've moved on and then something else

[00:25:38] would be exposed.

[00:25:40] So it was months of conversations.

[00:25:42] But one of the really practical steps that we took,

[00:25:44] and you kind of alluded to it a little bit ago,

[00:25:46] where you said you were afraid to come home

[00:25:49] and even share the joys and things.

[00:25:52] And so we kind of at first when

[00:25:56] we first had these conversations,

[00:25:57] it was a discipline I would ask, do you have anything

[00:26:02] to share with me today?

[00:26:04] And it just became an innate unwritten rule between us

[00:26:10] that you know what?

[00:26:11] You have the right to first hearing

[00:26:15] of all of my joys and all of my sorrows.

[00:26:18] And I have the right of first hearing

[00:26:21] of all of your joys and all of your sorrows.

[00:26:24] Because we're supposed to be, obviously aside from God,

[00:26:29] we're supposed to be the first in each other's lives.

[00:26:33] And so if something really amazing is happening,

[00:26:36] I get to celebrate that with you first.

[00:26:39] And if something really is painful and hurtful,

[00:26:44] you get both the joy and the responsibility

[00:26:48] of bearing that with me first.

[00:26:52] And it's an important discipline.

[00:26:54] Yes, it's one of those things

[00:26:55] that's gonna help you grow together.

[00:27:00] And it helps you come stronger and stronger

[00:27:03] and build that oneness that you're supposed to have.

[00:27:07] What marriage is all about is having that oneness

[00:27:10] of being able to have those joy moments and those.

[00:27:13] And I'll be honest with you,

[00:27:14] if you're not sharing those joy moments with each other,

[00:27:18] then all you're sharing are the negative times.

[00:27:21] Right.

[00:27:22] And that's destructive.

[00:27:24] Very much so.

[00:27:25] And you sit there and you go,

[00:27:27] how did we get to this point?

[00:27:29] How in the world did we go from

[00:27:31] where we were heard our marriage two years ago

[00:27:33] to where we are now?

[00:27:35] And a lot of that will go back to,

[00:27:38] well, we weren't trusting each other.

[00:27:41] We weren't being faithful to one another.

[00:27:43] We weren't being faithful with the whole of ourselves.

[00:27:45] With the whole of who we are.

[00:27:47] So we know that this sparks a lot.

[00:27:50] This is a topic, this is one of those things

[00:27:53] that sparks a lot.

[00:27:54] But like I said, all of the other six fruits

[00:27:57] that we've talked about, traits that we talked about,

[00:28:00] build up into this and you're gonna use all of those

[00:28:05] in recovering from this.

[00:28:08] If there's broken faithfulness,

[00:28:10] if there's you're looking at the marriage

[00:28:12] and you're going, that's where we are.

[00:28:15] That's exactly where we are.

[00:28:17] We're not on the same team.

[00:28:18] No.

[00:28:19] We're certainly not one.

[00:28:20] Right.

[00:28:21] So all of those things of love and joy

[00:28:26] and peace and patience with each other,

[00:28:28] all of those are gonna play into the fact

[00:28:31] or play into helping you recover

[00:28:34] and helping you come together.

[00:28:36] Now the testimony, we have seagulls now going at it.

[00:28:40] And from our testimony, it took us months

[00:28:44] and months and months to go through this process

[00:28:47] to get us to the point where we are now

[00:28:49] where it's so much nicer.

[00:28:53] Because we know now what each other is feeling.

[00:28:58] We trust, so if we do mess up on something

[00:29:00] or do something, we know that our spouse

[00:29:04] is gonna be faithful to love us and to care about us.

[00:29:07] We're not hiding things.

[00:29:09] We're not, there's no secret things.

[00:29:12] And that we just share.

[00:29:14] I mean, just to be honest with you guys,

[00:29:17] listening, we share pretty honestly on a lot of things

[00:29:22] from the food we like to TV shows

[00:29:26] to entertainment to what we do in the bedroom.

[00:29:29] And we're very honest with each other and say,

[00:29:32] you know what, we need to talk about this

[00:29:34] or we do talk about it.

[00:29:35] We talk about our parenting.

[00:29:37] We talk about friendships.

[00:29:38] We talk about simply energy levels.

[00:29:41] You know, Dan and I are very different people.

[00:29:44] He is, he's a people people.

[00:29:47] And I love people, but they exhaust me.

[00:29:52] Right, until you don't.

[00:29:53] And...

[00:29:54] I love you now, go away.

[00:29:59] I love you to the point where it's time to say goodbye.

[00:30:02] You know, and so we've had to be honest

[00:30:06] and we've had to learn to go, you know what?

[00:30:09] There's gonna be some give and take in those areas

[00:30:11] because we are gonna honor who each other are.

[00:30:15] Right.

[00:30:16] And so sometimes I'm gonna push myself

[00:30:18] so that we can be more people-y.

[00:30:20] And sometimes he's gonna hold himself back a little bit

[00:30:22] so that I can recover.

[00:30:26] But that's part of faithfulness.

[00:30:28] It's that carrying life together with the spirit.

[00:30:34] Right, we hope we've encouraged you guys this week.

[00:30:37] This was one that we knew, I knew coming up

[00:30:40] was gonna be one that was gonna be a pretty hard hitter

[00:30:43] and it's probably gonna cause some conversations.

[00:30:46] We hope it causes some conversations.

[00:30:48] Yes, we do.

[00:30:49] Because that's where healing begins

[00:30:50] if there is unfaithfulness.

[00:30:51] Yeah, and we hope it gets in prayer.

[00:30:54] And then if you need help, you need encouragement.

[00:30:57] We would love to hear from you.

[00:31:00] Write me at dan at Matthew257.com

[00:31:06] and we'd love to hear from you.

[00:31:08] We'd love to, if you have a prayer request

[00:31:10] or if you have a question from this episode

[00:31:14] or one of the other ones, please just send us the email.

[00:31:17] We'd love to hear from you.

[00:31:19] Oh, we're gonna finish out.

[00:31:20] We've got two left things to go.

[00:31:21] Right.

[00:31:22] And we're looking forward to seeing you again next week.

[00:31:26] So we'll see you next week for gentleness.

[00:31:28] All right, love you, bye-bye.