Technical Instruments of Worship with Willow Hodge

In this episode, Willow Hodge from Hope Fellowship Church dives into the vital role that technology plays in modern worship environments. From sound engineering to lighting, video, and behind-the-scenes tech workflows, Willow shares insights from her experience serving in church tech ministry. She discusses how these "technical instruments" support and enhance the worship experience without becoming a distraction, and emphasizes the heart behind the tech—serving the message and the people. A thoughtful conversation for anyone passionate about blending faith with technical artistry.

BONUS SEGMENTS:

Drum Mic Techniques with Earthworks Audio

and The Paragon Angle gives advice you don't want to miss.

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00:00:06

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00:01:24

All of that is coming up in just about 20 minutes, but first.

00:01:29

On today's podcast, we have a technical and video producer from Hope Fellowship Church in
Frisco, Texas.

00:01:35

She began her journey in production at the age of 16 and has been growing in the field for
over 10 years.

00:01:42

Her passions include video, content creation, live directing, and training volunteers.

00:01:48

Please welcome to the TechArts podcast, Willow Hodge.

00:01:51

Hey Willow.

00:01:51

Hey, thanks so much for having me.

00:01:53

Frisco, Texas, huh?

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That church is the home of the Cowboys.

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A lot of people think Arlington, but that's where the Cowboys are at.

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I'm a big Cowboys fan too, so a little jealous you're that close to.

00:02:04

Yeah, but we're very close.

00:02:05

mean, we have the star.

00:02:06

We have all the Cowboys headquarters over here.

00:02:08

It's great.

00:02:09

Yeah.

00:02:09

Are you a Cowboys fan?

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I am, I am.

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I'm not the biggest sports fan, but I mean, I'm from Dallas.

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My dad's a huge sports Cowboys fan, and so who else am I gonna root for?

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Even though they let us down every year, it's still like, yeah, this is our team.

00:02:24

Yeah, I've been a Cowboys fan since the 90s, so I'm 30 years going on of no wins, but hey,
it is what it is, right?

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is what it is.

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Well, tell us a little bit about yourself.

00:02:35

Who do you lead as a team?

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Tell us about your church and what you do.

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So I'm from Hope Fellowship, which again is in Frisco.

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I started, I wanna say I started in this role in 2018.

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I came on staff, I was pushing faders at the time, running classrooms.

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And I wanna say it was about a year later, I moved into the video world at our main
broadcast campus.

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I always liked to joke it was against my will because it wasn't what I had planned, but
God and my boss knew a little bit better than I knew at the time.

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But I started in the video world 2019.

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For a while I was just thrown in as the video producer, not knowing a ton about video and
being told to just kind of pick things up as I go.

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I actually was required to write down a list of all the things that I didn't know, which
is hard when you just don't know what you don't know.

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And then I was told to just kind of learn from there.

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But in my time doing that, I was sitting down watching our video broadcast team at the
time, which was

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All volunteer ran.

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So we had three volunteer directors.

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I want to say maybe 10 volunteer camera operators, a mix of students to those retired,
everybody in between.

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And I was just kind of thrown into this world, very brand new to me, and I had to learn
very, very fast.

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So as time went on,

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I kind of learned what it looked like to be a director.

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And I said, you know what?

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I want to sit in that seat.

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I want to try this.

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I think this is something I would really, really enjoy.

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And when COVID shut down the churches, it was the biggest time for us to do kind of a flip
in how we ran our iMAG at the church campus.

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And especially because we had been running online services a very specific way for a
while, we wanted our in-person experience to kind of match that.

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So when we opened our doors back up,

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I kind of started in this brand new role of leading that team.

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was, okay, I spent the past few years learning, writing things down.

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I didn't know, learning those things.

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And then I sat down in that seat and it felt like starting fresh.

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Some of our volunteers came back, not all of them came back.

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We had new interests and from there we just kept the ball rolling.

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We reset a vision, we recast a vision of who we wanted to be and who we wanted to continue
to be.

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And since then I've been, I've been growing in that role.

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Now I'm leading a team of about, we run about 10 volunteers a weekend, but I think the
pool I have to choose from is about 25 volunteers when we're working through the schedule.

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So it's grown quite a bit.

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But again, it was not where I imagined I would be when I first came on staff in 2018, but
it's, it's been the best blessing and I've absolutely fallen in love with it.

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Yeah, it's kind how the Lord works, right?

00:05:29

You think you know where your life's going and then he kind of takes you in a different
direction and there's blessings that come from that.

00:05:36

When we were doing the pre-interview, Willow, we kind of hit on a subject.

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It was the technical instruments of worship.

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And a lot of people may be asking themselves, what the heck does that mean?

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So let me ask you this question about it.

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Do you see tech gear as an extension of worship similar to a musical instrument?

00:05:56

Absolutely, right off the bat, yes.

00:05:58

And I mean, the same way you would look at it is there is a guitarist who is the artist
and then there is the guitar, which is his artwork.

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And it's kind of the same thing.

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Camera operator is the artist.

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The camera is the artwork and what you produce from that is the artwork, right?

00:06:13

So it's kind of, you look at it the same way.

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One person may be facing the stage and the other's facing the audience one way or the
other, but it's the same concept.

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just looks a little bit.

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They're playing an instrument, we're playing an instrument.

00:06:27

Ours just happens to be an audio console, in your case a video switcher, a lighting
console.

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But inside of that, what would you say to someone who believes that the tech distracts
from worship rather than enhances it?

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And so here's what I mean by that.

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I'm seeing this a lot out there on social media.

00:06:48

I almost said the social media like my dad, the internet.

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I'm seeing a lot of people saying, churches, they don't need all of this tech, they don't
need it.

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And so as someone like me who espouses to what we think it is, an instrument of worship, a
way to worship our Lord just through, you know, instead of a guitar, through the sound

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console, what would you say to someone who believes that the tech is just distracting
worship instead of enhancing it?

00:07:15

Yeah, I think it comes down a lot of the times to preference.

00:07:20

You think of it, some people don't like contemporary worship and believe that worship
should look one way.

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It's kind of the same way with tech.

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I came from a church.

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I grew up in a church that ran two gyps.

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And then when I came on staff, we don't run gyps.

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It just looks different for where you're at, whether it's considered distracting or not.

00:07:42

However, I do believe that

00:07:45

Tech is an extension of worship because you're helping the people in the back of the room
who can't see the stage.

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You're helping them to engage in the act of worship.

00:07:55

When you're using your craft, it's like the guitarist or the singer glorifying God through
their craft.

00:08:00

It's the same thing when you run a camera or you push faders or you run lights, whatever
it is, it is an act of worship.

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And so though some people may believe that these things are distracting and there's no
need for them.

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It all comes down to the heart and the why behind what we do, why we do what we do.

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And that is what makes it kind of acceptable in this realm of, know what, some people may
think this is distracting.

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However, we are here to serve and to worship through the act of it.

00:08:33

I mean, we need each other.

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Worship and production need each other.

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We are one team.

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We are doing the same thing.

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We're using both sides of it, both sides of worship to worship, if that makes sense.

00:08:46

Yeah, totally makes sense.

00:08:47

I visit a lot of churches.

00:08:50

One thing that Digital Great Commission Ministries does is we go and do free assessments
for churches.

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So we'll come in free of charge and just kind of look at what's going on.

00:08:58

And there's such a divide in a lot of churches between what we'll call the worship team,
which is on the platform, and the worship team, which is behind the scenes.

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There's such a divide there.

00:09:09

They're not communicating.

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They're not working together as a team.

00:09:15

When that happens, is it a mindset thing?

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Is it a mindset between the two different areas that needs to come together?

00:09:25

Yes, so I'm no stranger to this.

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In fact, when I first came on staff, we didn't have somebody in place that was uniting
both our worship team and our production team.

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They were two very, very separate departments and they acted as such.

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There was a little bit of pride when I first came on.

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And again, it was nobody's fault other than we didn't have the proper leadership in the
position at the time to unify us.

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so natural tendencies, natural human habits slip in and

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I'm right about this or no, I'm right about this.

00:09:56

And there, there, was a pride for a little bit.

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But then when we hired our, our, our head worship and production pastor who is one over
all of us, it was, Hey, we're going to turn into one department and one team because we

00:10:08

are.

00:10:08

And thankfully it was such an easy switch, but it did take a huge mindset swap of guys,
we're going to lead with yes.

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And we're going to serve each other.

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And it's not just sometimes it can feel like, okay,

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production your whole job is just serve worship.

00:10:24

No, it's about we are serving God together.

00:10:27

So it is we're going to serve each other because we're both going to model who Jesus is
and then in that we're also going to worship and glorify and serve our Lord.

00:10:36

And so it is a mindset swap and sometimes it just takes putting down the pride of always
being right or no I'm going to take the easy way out and do this even though worship wants

00:10:44

to do that instead of saying we're two different departments it's hey we're all here for
the same mission.

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Let's work together in that.

00:10:52

And in that, let's model Christ and serve each other.

00:10:55

Let me ask you this, your team, how do you impress on them that they're leading worship
versus just a service department that's running gear?

00:11:03

So one thing that we do is we start by setting the foundation.

00:11:09

And the foundation for us is taking the church's mission and building off of that.

00:11:14

So for us, we start with our mission, which is inviting everybody to find Jesus and help
them move to the center of God's purpose for their life.

00:11:22

So when we take that church mission, we then build upon that.

00:11:25

It's okay, so what does it then look like to run a camera or lighting or slides or audio?

00:11:33

What does it mean to do that in relation to our mission?

00:11:36

And it's inviting people in.

00:11:37

It's we are serving because we're modeling Jesus and in serving we are then also
worshiping.

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And so I think when we start with that and we establish that foundation, it starts people
with a mindset of, I'm not just here to run a camera because it's fun.

00:11:51

I'm not just here to click the slides because it's something easy behind the scenes.

00:11:55

It's no, we are a part of the greater mission of the church.

00:11:58

And so I think when we start with that, it does establish a

00:12:01

firm foundation of who we are as a team and a department.

00:12:05

And then it comes to living it out, which is the other side of it.

00:12:08

We can say things all day long, but if we're not, as leaders, modeling it, then our
volunteers are going to pick up what we model.

00:12:17

So a lot of that comes to, lead with yes.

00:12:20

And sometimes you have to say no.

00:12:22

Sometimes things don't work out, but we want to be a department and a team that leads with
yes.

00:12:28

Leading with yes means, how can I serve you?

00:12:30

If somebody comes to me with a request, whether it's a pastor or a worship leader or
whoever it may be, let me serve them to the best of my ability.

00:12:38

And we found that when we start to lead and serve that way, it is glorifying God and it's
showing who we are as a department and a team.

00:12:45

And then at the same time, we also establish good practices for our volunteers of, hey, I
know when you run a camera, it may feel like you're doing a lot.

00:12:58

or you have your hands on something a lot, but we also want this to be an experience where
you're also receiving and worshipping.

00:13:05

And so for us, we require our attendees, please go listen to a message.

00:13:10

Even when we are running slides or running the message, we're engaging with it back in the
AVL room.

00:13:15

Our pastor says something good, we'll say something about it out loud.

00:13:18

We're constantly just involved in that atmosphere, constantly so that we're just kind of
living out the mission.

00:13:26

and modeling it for our volunteers.

00:13:28

And I'll tell you one of the best things to see and I saw this past weekend was a camera
operator in the back of the room who's running a camera and when she's not live she has

00:13:37

her hands up worshiping.

00:13:38

She's just living it out and that's what we just we love to see.

00:13:41

Yeah, we say instrument of worship and a lot of people instantly run to the gear, but I
think we're an instrument as well.

00:13:48

And your mission and your vision of saying, hey, it's about our attitudes.

00:13:52

That is a big part of the instrument of worship that's happening in the room and how we're
doing things.

00:14:00

And it's really kind of cool when we adjust our attitude, even when you don't have all the
money in the world to buy the best gear, the worship service turns out better.

00:14:10

When you have a horrible attitude, you can have millions of dollars to buy the best gear
in the world and it just feels like a colossal waste when it comes to the worship service.

00:14:19

It's just why is everybody struggling?

00:14:20

They have all this money and all this gear.

00:14:23

It's because of the attitudes.

00:14:24

We are a part of that instrument of worship.

00:14:27

But let me ask you this, Willow.

00:14:30

Have you ever had a moment where you tangibly felt God move through the tech in the
service?

00:14:38

I mean, you just talked about somebody in the back of the room with their hands up, but
I'm talking more like really tied in with the worship experience and what you're seeing on

00:14:49

the faces and those in the room.

00:14:52

Have you ever felt that moment at your church?

00:14:55

Yeah, so let me actually go back to a moment when I was an attendee and what that was
like.

00:15:04

So I kind of set setting this environment up.

00:15:08

I grew up in a big church in the Dallas area.

00:15:13

And for me at a young age, I felt that production was a love language.

00:15:19

It was almost like a team had taken the time to cultivate something.

00:15:23

Amazing and it just felt like an act of love and act of service and from a young age I was
able to feel that and you know we all have probably had experiences where production can

00:15:36

become distracting something goes wrong.

00:15:39

The lights don't come up you lose video signal you have.

00:15:43

I'm a high ring and one of the mics whatever it may be.

00:15:49

But.

00:15:50

There have been times where it has been cultivated so well.

00:15:53

We've been in a worship service.

00:15:55

I remember when I was a high schooler and I started production in high school.

00:15:58

I believe it was my senior year at summer camp and worship was absolutely incredible, of
course, but it was just, it was the way it all came together to be something so

00:16:10

intentionally beautiful that of course I was sitting there worshiping the Lord, but it was
also just the fact that

00:16:20

people had taken the time to create an atmosphere and environment.

00:16:24

was a love language that God had poured into the hearts of those individuals that then
programmed it and made it happen.

00:16:30

And to me, I just felt, I felt this love.

00:16:33

And I know if I have felt that love before that there have been others out there who have
also felt that and seen that.

00:16:40

And then there have been moments that are worship nights when

00:16:44

our team has put so much and poured so much love and care into the projects and it doesn't
even have to be perfect.

00:16:51

But it's when God uses us as the instrument and is able to then pour out that love and the
talents and the gifts that he's given us to give to others.

00:17:02

It's just, it's all service.

00:17:04

It all models Jesus and who he is.

00:17:06

And that, yeah, those moments have been very special and

00:17:11

placing me where I'm at in production because I've felt that love before and I want to be
part of that and used in that field by God to communicate the same love to others.

00:17:20

Yeah, I like to tell churches this, whether you're small or big, those moments don't
happen on Sunday morning.

00:17:28

They happen during the week as you're leading up to Sunday morning.

00:17:32

Whether you're a volunteer or a staff member, it's about focus and intention on what
you're about to do on Sunday that really opens your hands to create an atmosphere where

00:17:41

the Lord can come in and move.

00:17:43

And I think a lot of churches think it just happens on Sunday morning.

00:17:47

You know, we come in,

00:17:48

We do our jobs and everything's great, but no, it's what happens during the week.

00:17:53

And during the week is about leadership.

00:17:56

And so Willow, how do you lead your team spiritually as well as technically?

00:18:03

Give us some examples with that.

00:18:06

I think those opportunities come up way more than we realize it.

00:18:10

Week to week, we're inviting a group of volunteers to come in and this then makes up our
team.

00:18:17

Something as small as asking somebody how their week went and starting that conversation
can open so many doors to lead others spiritually as well.

00:18:27

So from those small conversations where it could be easier to, you know, we do our run
through and then we...

00:18:33

kind of just separate before service.

00:18:35

There's something so great about that time in between to go connect with our people and
talk to them and you never know where that's gonna lead.

00:18:43

What conversations may come from that.

00:18:46

People walk through the doors every single weekend and you have no idea what had just
happened to them before they showed up.

00:18:52

They could have gotten in a big fight with a family member, their spouse, or maybe walking
through something medically.

00:18:57

We just don't know until they're there and

00:19:01

I think we're given a unique opportunity where we are working with technology, but we are
still working with people and we're still working with the hearts of people.

00:19:08

And if we forget that, it could be so easy to forget that we're also spiritual leaders as
well.

00:19:14

Another way is that we stay involved during our services.

00:19:20

It's not just, the sermon's up, I can just get on my phone and be distracted.

00:19:25

It's no, we're gonna engage with this because we believe in this.

00:19:30

as leaders we just we want to model that for our volunteers as well when we have our
Saturday we meet up on Saturdays our services are structured a little different where we

00:19:41

have Saturday and Sunday service but we meet up on Saturdays worship and production we do
a little talk through but then we go through and if anybody has any prayer requests we

00:19:50

pray for people in our team and we model that well

00:19:53

I think it's just living out the mission is a big part of it and not just saying, yeah, we
believe about it and then moving on.

00:19:59

It's okay.

00:20:00

We definitely are here to do a task, but at the same time we are people and we care about,
we care about these people too.

00:20:09

So just as much as we care about having an excellent service, we want to care about the
people that are, are leading and running those excellent services.

00:20:17

Yeah, assumptions can also kill how you lead spiritually.

00:20:21

And what I mean by that is a lot of times when you work for a church or you're a volunteer
leader at a church, the person comes in to volunteer on your team and, you a Christian?

00:20:32

You know, those questions are asked and they say yes.

00:20:36

But we assume so much about people's lives that we don't understand where their walk is.

00:20:43

They may be a baby Christian.

00:20:45

They may be a Christian for 10 years that doesn't really believe in God anymore.

00:20:50

And so I say, don't assume, ask the tough questions.

00:20:55

Be involved in your people's lives.

00:20:58

And it doesn't mean going to dinner with them every week necessarily, but it means
understanding where they're at and what's going on in their life.

00:21:06

That'll help you lead spiritually as well as technically, because if you know somebody's
really struggling with something,

00:21:13

Just like it's tough for worship leader to get on the platform and sing when they're going
through a tough time, it's tough for a technical person to run camera or to switch or to

00:21:22

run audio when they're going through some tough things in their life.

00:21:26

And so that will help you lead if you get rid of the assumptions.

00:21:31

A lot of times I'll say to churches, have different levels, have your entry level, have
your leadership level, have your high spiritual level of leader.

00:21:39

And those will also allow you to track people as they move forward when they're coming
first in and say your entry level is running camera.

00:21:47

Yeah, that's a little bit of a lower bar for spiritual leadership.

00:21:50

But if they're running audio, that's a little bit of a higher bar because people are
looking up to them.

00:21:55

But getting rid of the assumptions about people when they say, I'm a Christian and we just
assume everybody's perfect, which is what happens.

00:22:02

he's a Christian.

00:22:03

She's a Christian.

00:22:04

So yeah, everything's great.

00:22:06

No.

00:22:06

There may be some tough things going on in their lives and that'll help you lead
spiritually as well as technically if you can get rid of those assumptions.

00:22:15

Again, like you're saying, we've had people from those who barely believe, but we're still
welcoming of them because that's just a part of the walk of faith to people who have been

00:22:25

long time very, very deep in their faith believers.

00:22:28

And it's not like one is more important than the other, but it's you kind of know how to
have different conversations with the different groups.

00:22:35

And you know, okay, this person is at this place in their walk, how can I best have a
conversation with

00:22:40

this person versus this person and it looks different but it also just means taking the
time to know and understand your team and where they're at.

00:22:49

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00:22:52

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That's audiovideolighting.com.

00:23:47

We talked earlier about being one team and you had a leader that came in at your church
that helped organize it in a way where it was one team.

00:23:58

But again, as we mentioned earlier, a lot of churches struggle with this.

00:24:02

So what are some concepts that can help teams collaborate better between worship, leaders,
pastors, and the tech team?

00:24:11

The biggest thing is adjusting the heart posture to be a true servant.

00:24:15

I think I did say this earlier, but leading with yes, it is the we is greater than me.

00:24:22

These are all values that we as a church believe and we're constantly putting them into
practice.

00:24:27

Let me ask you something about that with the lead with yes, because I know a lot of
technical people tend to go to the negative, right?

00:24:33

And they'll say, well, I can't say yes to everything.

00:24:37

Are you saying I have to say yes to everything?

00:24:39

Is that what you're saying Willow?

00:24:41

No, no, there are definitely some things where it's like, I don't have the bandwidth for
this, but I also don't want to be a person that I'm immediately finding excuses as to why

00:24:50

not.

00:24:50

I don't want to be a person who's constantly trying to take the easy way out because it
makes my job easier.

00:24:56

There are times I absolutely cannot say yes to things just because I know my bandwidth.

00:25:01

I know the bandwidth of my team and we sometimes just can't make things happen and that's
okay.

00:25:08

But we also want to be known as people where

00:25:11

I don't want somebody to look at me and say, I don't want to ask her for something because
I know she's going to say no.

00:25:16

I want to be a teammate where I know others can be like, I'm going to ask her this knowing
that she's going to help me as much as she can, even though the answer may be no.

00:25:25

I don't want to be somebody that people are afraid to approach because they're intimidated
by.

00:25:29

I want to be somebody that others can trust.

00:25:32

And I think when you become somebody who leads with yes, it means that people can trust
you and come to you with thanks.

00:25:38

Doesn't mean the answer is always going to be yes.

00:25:40

Doesn't mean you have to say yes to every single request, but don't be somebody that
immediately shuts things down and says no.

00:25:45

Yeah, I like to say options.

00:25:47

Offer options.

00:25:49

You know, somebody comes to you and says, hey, I wanna do this, and you're immediately
like, wow, you wanna fly a truck from the stage and you wanna do it live.

00:25:59

Okay, yeah, what if, and lay out two or three different options.

00:26:05

The first thing that does is it puts you in a posture of not saying no, you know, not
immediately going, no, we're not gonna fly that truck.

00:26:14

We're not gonna do that thing.

00:26:15

But here are some options.

00:26:17

Hey, I want a choir and I want to have 150 microphones on my choir.

00:26:21

Okay, well that's gonna cost us a lot of money.

00:26:24

So here's a few other options.

00:26:26

And you lay out some different approaches to it.

00:26:29

I find that that puts your heart in a posture of I really want to work with you.

00:26:34

But here's some obstacles I have to overcome.

00:26:37

Can you help me overcome that?

00:26:40

But doing that, Willow, requires some training.

00:26:44

and we work with a lot of volunteers.

00:26:45

So how do you train that?

00:26:47

How do you train those responses into your team?

00:26:50

Again, think one of the best ways to train is to lead with it.

00:26:54

And I think we lead by example.

00:26:57

So when it comes to, let's say I'm training a new volunteer, I think a lot of that is in
the way that I, as a leader, model saying yes, and I model every role that I'm in.

00:27:09

So whether I'm the front of house producer or I'm the director.

00:27:13

making sure I'm leading with a collaborative approach instead of, nope, this is just my
job.

00:27:17

I'm just going to sit back and do my thing.

00:27:19

It's I'm going to make sure I'm helping everybody succeed.

00:27:22

So if my camera three operator is having a hard time or they're struggling with their
cable or their battery, it is I'm going to take a second out of what I am doing to make

00:27:32

sure that this person is set up to win instead of I'm just I'm just going to be OK with
what I'm doing and they're going to figure it out.

00:27:38

It's let me go help this person.

00:27:41

I've noticed

00:27:42

Ever since we started reevaluating or redoing our team and the vision of our team, that
the more that we as staff members have led with this, the more it's influenced a lot of

00:27:57

our volunteers.

00:27:59

One of the best things for me to witness is weekends where maybe somebody needs help on
something and they're like, Hey, can you, can you come meet with me after this run

00:28:08

through?

00:28:08

I was struggling with my focus or I was struggling with.

00:28:12

Whatever it may be.

00:28:14

The best thing for me to witness is before I could go over there, somebody else is already
helping them.

00:28:18

It's my volunteer director.

00:28:19

It's the volunteer camera operator on a different camera.

00:28:22

And watching and witnessing that is kind of the fruit of it.

00:28:26

It's, you know, we are a team.

00:28:29

It is not my show.

00:28:30

It is not this guy's show.

00:28:32

It is we are one team and we all want to come together to win.

00:28:35

And I think, again, a lot of that is model.

00:28:39

Now we don't want our team members to think all they are are button pushers.

00:28:44

We want them to, you know, understand their role is more than that.

00:28:49

But at the same time, we do have to perform a function, right?

00:28:54

We do have to have a good video and good audio.

00:28:58

So talk to me a little bit about your training programs and how you get people to the
level where they can actually do some of these high level things that you guys do at your

00:29:07

church.

00:29:09

Yeah, so one thing that I have been very grateful to have been a part of is the way that
we have set up our onboarding process.

00:29:19

And so we have new interests.

00:29:22

We have them come sit in a service, watch a service, ask questions, and then we move on
from there of, OK, is there a specific role or position you're interested in serving in?

00:29:32

Then we move forward.

00:29:33

Let's say it's camera training, because that's my specialty.

00:29:39

We have a list of a few videos.

00:29:41

One is a vision video.

00:29:42

So it kind of shares what I was talking about earlier, the mission of our church, who we
are, why we do what we do.

00:29:48

We lead with that.

00:29:49

And then we have another video that has the technical aspects of, hey, before you put your
hands on a camera, let me tell you a few basics you need to know.

00:29:58

And we've structured these videos in a way where you don't have to have any prior
experience to understand what we're talking about because in our team,

00:30:06

I would say probably about 80 % of our team has never put their hands on a camera until
they have joined our team.

00:30:13

So we set it up in a way where even if you're somebody who has been doing this for a long
time, you've been in the industry, you've been at other churches, we're still going to

00:30:22

give you the same language as we would somebody who's never touched a camera before in
their life.

00:30:27

So from there, we do a lot of the technical language aspects.

00:30:31

Here's what you're going to hear on a weekend.

00:30:33

Here's how you zoom.

00:30:35

Here's how you focus.

00:30:36

Send them that stuff so then when they come in to train, it's not the first time that
we're going over this.

00:30:41

It's not the first time they're hearing us talk about how to focus, how to zoom.

00:30:45

It's then just putting those things into application.

00:30:48

From there, the first time that they're running a camera should be for one of our
rehearsals.

00:30:54

During that time, for new volunteers, I'll give them three ways that they can win.

00:30:58

So here's shot one.

00:31:00

If you can give me this, you're in focus and you're steady, that's a win.

00:31:03

Here's shot two.

00:31:04

Same thing, here's shot three.

00:31:06

Shot three may be more complex, so it may be like a compound move of some sort where
there's like a zoom or a tilt or whatnot.

00:31:13

And then we move on from there.

00:31:14

So if they know those three, then it's like, great, let me give you three more.

00:31:19

And then from there on out, we put them on different cameras.

00:31:22

We give them different ways that they can win.

00:31:24

And then they're able to, no matter what camera they're put on or what position they're
in, they should be able to walk in and kind of know the bullseyes of what a service should

00:31:32

look like and the technical things that

00:31:34

they should be doing each week to win.

00:31:36

So that's kind how we do the training portion of it.

00:31:39

Three ways to win, I really like that.

00:31:41

I think if churches incorporated that, just three simple ways that you can give the
director a win or whoever you're working with a win.

00:31:48

I used to say, can you direct blindfolded?

00:31:52

When we would teach our directors, we would say, can you direct blindfolded?

00:31:56

And they'd always look at me funny and I said, make it so simple for your camera operators
that if you closed your eyes, you knew what camera two was gonna be doing.

00:32:06

you knew what camera one was going to be doing.

00:32:08

Now obviously you can't direct blindfolded, but if you simplify it to that point, then it
makes it easier on a volunteer who may not know that much.

00:32:16

And you're putting them over on camera one, they're the wide shot, and they're trying to
do 18 things.

00:32:22

You're like, no, give me the simple wide push.

00:32:25

That's all I need.

00:32:26

That's all I need.

00:32:26

If I closed my eyes and I punched you up, you're doing a simple push and a simple pull.

00:32:31

And I know that's where you're going to be.

00:32:33

So in the heat of the moment,

00:32:35

and I've got 18 cameras going on, like all the churches nowadays have 53 and a half
cameras and they're doing Super Bowl shots.

00:32:42

You know what camera 15 is doing.

00:32:45

You just know it because you've simplified it to the point where you can literally direct
blindfolded.

00:32:50

And I really like the three ways to win.

00:32:52

I think that's another strong way of teaching your team.

00:32:56

But let me ask you this Willow, what encouragement would you give

00:33:01

to tech teams who feel unseen and undervalued.

00:33:04

Now here's why I'm asking that question.

00:33:06

You work for a healthy church.

00:33:08

Most of the churches I've worked with for and consult with are very healthy.

00:33:12

But I've stepped into some churches that are not healthy and the staff and the volunteers
are beat down.

00:33:20

They don't know what to do next.

00:33:21

They feel undervalued, they feel unseen.

00:33:25

And when I say the church is unhealthy, I don't mean it's toxic unhealthy.

00:33:29

I just meant there's a lot going on.

00:33:31

They don't have the money to hire people, things of that nature.

00:33:34

So what encouragement would you give to those tech teams that feel unseen and undervalued?

00:33:39

The biggest thing is that God sees you regardless of where you're at, what position you're
in, whether you're at a big church or a small church doing the biggest production or doing

00:33:50

the smallest production, God sees you and it is all about the heart.

00:33:56

And if your heart is truly to serve, which a lot of production is just serving, because
it's not a crowd-facing job, it is truly behind the scenes.

00:34:09

God sees your heart and God sees what you're putting into a service.

00:34:14

And so we don't do this for the approval of man.

00:34:18

We're doing this for the love and the worship of God.

00:34:22

And so even though people can sometimes overlook or sometimes there's this disunity or we
maybe talk to a certain way, God still sees us.

00:34:34

God still sees our hearts.

00:34:36

And I think

00:34:38

that as long as your heart is in the right place, you're doing an absolutely amazing job
and it is enough.

00:34:45

It is enough.

00:34:47

like I said, God just sees you regardless of what production, how big or how small,
whether you're getting the approval or not, He sees and that's what matters.

00:34:56

I would say this as well.

00:34:58

You need to understand that live production, you will make mistakes.

00:35:04

And I think, I think a lot of churches and volunteers and even staff members, they go into
the service thinking it's, it needs to be perfect.

00:35:15

And you know, that's a great place to try to shoot for, but it's just not going to happen
in live production.

00:35:21

I've been a part of some major secular productions where they have all the money in the
world.

00:35:26

and they still make mistakes.

00:35:28

It's just going to happen.

00:35:30

And so you don't want to get discouraged by making the mistake.

00:35:33

You want to learn from the mistake and get better from the mistake.

00:35:37

And matter of fact, a lot of churches I'll consult with, I'll say, what's your baseline
for mistakes?

00:35:42

And they'll say, what do mean by that?

00:35:43

I'm like, well, how many mistakes do you make on an average weekend?

00:35:45

And there's, have, we have no clue.

00:35:47

said, well, then you don't know if this was a good weekend or a bad weekend.

00:35:52

So I like to encourage people by saying, look,

00:35:55

You're going to make mistakes.

00:35:56

Just learn from those mistakes Understand that you don't want to repeat them.

00:36:00

You want to get better from them, but it's sometimes encouraging to them for them to hear
like you make mistakes like you worked for this big church and you guys made mistakes We

00:36:11

made a lot of mistakes and it sounded like willow when I said they're like, absolutely I
mean even willows church makes mistakes like things will happen Don't get discouraged by

00:36:21

those just learn from them and it's good to have a system sometimes

00:36:25

If you're in a church where it's just perfection, perfection, perfection, sometimes it's
good to have a system, like I said, to understand what's your baseline for mistakes, kind

00:36:33

of track them.

00:36:34

I like to say audience notice mistakes.

00:36:36

Nobody noticed that it was red or blue.

00:36:38

They noticed that the mic wasn't on, right?

00:36:39

So track the ones that are important and then talk them through each week, even if it's
with yourself and try to understand how you can get better for the next week.

00:36:48

But it isn't for man.

00:36:52

We are creating a worship service

00:36:55

so that an atmosphere, if you wanna put it that way, so that the Lord can come and move
amongst his people.

00:37:01

And he did that 2000 years ago without any audio, video, or lighting.

00:37:06

So you can create an atmosphere no matter how little tech you have or how big tech you
have if you wanna look at it that way.

00:37:13

But Willow, what's your favorite part of church tech?

00:37:16

We kinda geek out on this stuff, so I'm curious what your favorite part is.

00:37:20

You mean something technical or just week to week?

00:37:25

I'm gonna leave that up to you.

00:37:27

do you look forward to when you come on a Sunday?

00:37:32

Is it switching, is it directing, is it the worship part?

00:37:35

What is it you look forward to?

00:37:37

So when I attend, I love to watch the switching.

00:37:41

That's one thing.

00:37:42

I'm just always curious to see how other directors switch.

00:37:46

And I wonder, you know, why they're taking certain things because I direct very
differently than some of my other volunteers.

00:37:54

But I think on a weekend when I'm serving, what excites me the most, and this is so nerdy
and random, I love assigning the cameras.

00:38:01

I love assigning the camera operators.

00:38:04

because I kind of know where everybody's at and I'm like, this is a good challenge for
this person this weekend.

00:38:09

Let's try this.

00:38:11

And knowing how I'm going to have to work with them that weekend.

00:38:14

maybe it's their first time picking up our camera five and they each have their own
different assignments of what they're supposed to get.

00:38:20

But I love watching our volunteers step into different roles and then seeing how they
develop in that role.

00:38:27

And it's fun for me to then realize this person really likes this camera and they're
actually really good at this one and they may not realize it.

00:38:33

So it's fun to kind of place them in those spots and be like, hey, you're killing it in
this role, whether you think so or not.

00:38:41

And then the other side of it, and this is more of the relational, we've walked through a
few volunteers who I think sometimes they wear their...

00:38:53

performance too much and we've had to have those deeper conversations of this is not about
your, this is not about you and having those, those very deep conversations of, you know,

00:39:05

you came in and you did your best today.

00:39:08

Even if there was a mistake or two made or this wasn't your best, this wasn't your best
run.

00:39:13

However, I love those conversations because it takes it more from a running.

00:39:18

Like the how to run something to the why we do what we do and it kind of flips that
conversation from a technical aspect to a global aspect.

00:39:26

And the heart behind it and I think sometimes those are my favorite weekends when I have
those conversations because it feels like we're pushing the absolute miss mission.

00:39:35

Yeah, short steps, long vision.

00:39:38

I think working with the team and helping them understand, take the next little step, but
have a long vision for where you're trying to go.

00:39:46

I want to ask you this question, talent assessment.

00:39:49

You kind of hit on it a little bit there, and that's one of the favorite things that you
like to see in terms of, you know, knowing where people are at with their technical

00:39:58

journey, not only the spiritual journey, but their technical journey.

00:40:01

Do you have any steps?

00:40:02

or anything you can tell other churches that help you talent assess your camera operators
or those in different positions.

00:40:10

think a lot of it is give people the time to try out different positions and don't just
throw them there without training or giving them the three ways to win.

00:40:21

Give them those ways, help them to achieve them and see how they grow with that.

00:40:27

Because I found some people are way better at subtle moves where some people are, and I
mean like subtle moves with camera, whereas some people are

00:40:37

way more that they like to do like focus racks and rolls.

00:40:40

They know the songs very well.

00:40:42

And so they're creative.

00:40:45

Yes, they know the songs.

00:40:46

They know how to use their talents to build on the story that we're trying to tell with
worship.

00:40:53

And not everybody has that and not everybody is wired the same way.

00:40:57

And I don't think we can expect everybody to be wired the same way.

00:41:00

We are teaching people in the process, you know, because we've had a lot of people that
are not creative.

00:41:06

But we also have had people that are creative step into the roles of cameras.

00:41:11

And so they have different strengths and weaknesses.

00:41:13

I can't expect the super creative camera operator A to be exactly like camera operator B
who is not creative whatsoever.

00:41:20

But they both have a place and they both have their strengths and their weaknesses.

00:41:24

And I'm going to help put them in places where I know they can win.

00:41:28

And I think, again, that just goes back to knowing your team and knowing your people.

00:41:32

Can a lead singer play drums, play the bass, play the electric guitar?

00:41:39

Can they do all those things?

00:41:40

I mean, there's some that can.

00:41:42

I worked with Cody Karnes once and just blew me away.

00:41:44

We actually did an event with him where he was doing drums, singing, and playing keyboard
all at the same time.

00:41:50

But for the most part, a good lead singer doesn't necessarily play drums.

00:41:57

A good drummer doesn't necessarily sing.

00:42:01

And I think what you're saying is it's the same with the tech team.

00:42:04

You're gonna have people that really good at a certain function, but they're not good at
another function.

00:42:10

And at the end of the day, it's all about people, right?

00:42:12

It's all about understanding who your team is, understanding who they are.

00:42:17

You've got to center on a basketball team that performs a certain function different from
the shooting guard.

00:42:22

And if you reverse those, they will struggle at both positions.

00:42:26

But if you get them in the right position, they will do an amazing job.

00:42:30

And for me, talent assessment is about figuring out how to get people into the right
positions.

00:42:36

And that doesn't happen overnight.

00:42:38

I mean, sometimes they have to do something they're not good at to figure out what they're
good at.

00:42:44

And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head when you said, you just have to
understand this person's creative.

00:42:50

This person likes to do this differently.

00:42:53

And then how does that fit with your style too, when you're directing?

00:42:56

That's actually a good question.

00:42:58

So when you direct, you're different.

00:43:00

from say another director that's directing.

00:43:02

So how does that work when you switch out different directors in terms of their different
talents?

00:43:08

We train directors in a way where right now I'm the one training our different directors
and I have them sit with me and I will I'll call a service and it's kind of like right now

00:43:21

our director and our technical director in the same person.

00:43:24

But when I'm training people it is they are the technical director and I'm the director
and it's to get the pacing down.

00:43:30

Right, right.

00:43:30

It's to get the pacing.

00:43:33

This we're taking this shot at this point.

00:43:36

And we get us as close together as possible because we don't want it to feel very obvious
when it's somebody else directing.

00:43:44

We want it to feel as cohesive and as hope fellowship as possible.

00:43:49

And so there have been some habits that I've had to break because when talking to my
leadership, it's been like, hey, here are the things that we want to see.

00:43:57

And so it's broken some habits for me and it's having the same conversation with others.

00:44:02

It's not a me show.

00:44:03

I'm not just sitting there like this is how we direct.

00:44:06

because some of my guys direct a little bit differently than I do.

00:44:12

But ultimately we have a few bullseyes of if you can hit these things as a director,
you're going to win.

00:44:17

And so it's like for us, it's getting back to the lead at the start of a line.

00:44:21

It is being intentional about when we're taking instruments.

00:44:24

It is keeping the lead singer at the primary for the whole time.

00:44:29

If somebody's not singing, don't take them live.

00:44:32

Do not take a shot when it's not ready, when the camera operator is not ready.

00:44:36

And I mean, as long as we follow these things and of course, nailing our transitions,
that's the other piece of it, a big giveaway.

00:44:44

If we can follow these things and we're cohesive and there are small things here and there
of I'm going to fade to this shot versus I'm going to cut to this shot that don't really

00:44:52

matter because ultimately I'm going to direct very different than the guy next week.

00:44:57

And as long as we're still nailing these few things that we set our, our hope fellowship,
then we're winning and we're accomplishing the mission.

00:45:05

So Willow, I didn't prep you with this question, but I do want to throw it at you.

00:45:10

So you're young, you work at an up and coming church, and you're a lady.

00:45:15

I think most tech departments are mostly men and sometimes older men.

00:45:21

How do you deal with that dynamic at your church in terms of being a young lady, kind of
working in a technical, which traditionally has been kind of a male dominated environment?

00:45:31

How do you navigate that at your church?

00:45:33

Because I know there's a lot of young ladies out there, and ladies, by the way, are really
good at the creative and the video and even the audio pieces of it and the lighting pieces

00:45:42

of it.

00:45:42

Ladies are very good at this.

00:45:45

And I'm just curious for all those young ladies that are watching and listening, how you
navigate that at your church.

00:45:52

So when I started, was, I think to give a little background, so I grew up with all
sisters.

00:45:59

So I was always with girls.

00:46:01

And then when I was in high school, I was a trumpet player.

00:46:03

So I was with all boys because it was a very male dominated environment there too.

00:46:09

And that was, that was a weird transition for me.

00:46:11

And so was going into a male dominated production field as well.

00:46:17

But it never, it never scared me off because

00:46:21

I knew that everybody has something different to bring to the table.

00:46:26

there was a volunteer camera operator that had done my job.

00:46:33

He's now retired, but he had done my job 20, 30 years ago.

00:46:37

And he was so nice in the way that he talked to our female volunteers and talked to me and
that he was like, you know, sometimes I found that the ladies have...

00:46:48

great eye whereas some of our guys don't and not that that's true for every single case
but I have found that sometimes when I'm when I'm training my female camera operators they

00:46:59

just have a natural eye for things that sometimes I just have to train the males on a
little bit longer and again that's not always the case but I have found that sometimes

00:47:10

girls just see things a little bit differently than guys and I think that's the cool
unique thing about having both sides come in because

00:47:17

We, you know, we bring in different perspectives and we can learn from each other a lot.

00:47:25

I've been very grateful to be in an environment that doesn't make me feel any less than as
a female.

00:47:31

was intimidating for me at first when I came in and there were no females on the team.

00:47:36

But when I joined the team, there was an influx of female camera operators that came into,
it was almost like they saw,

00:47:45

women can do this.

00:47:47

And so then they started joining and they've brought so many unique, creative new things
to the team.

00:47:52

And I think if you're a young female out there, I know it's easier said than done to not
be afraid, but you may see something or have a talent that the church absolutely needs.

00:48:06

And don't be afraid of it because you're young.

00:48:09

I mean, the Bible says, you know, don't be afraid because you're young.

00:48:12

But don't be afraid because you're female.

00:48:14

We all have something unique that God's wired us with to bring to the table.

00:48:18

And I think we should not let fear rule our ability to join or to not.

00:48:23

Just let the gifts of God come through and allow Him to use that.

00:48:27

Yeah, step up and do it Willow.

00:48:29

That's well said, well said.

00:48:30

Well, you've provided us with some great insights and if there's someone out there who
wants to get in touch with you Willow, how do they do that?

00:48:37

I'm on Instagram.

00:48:39

It's at Willow Presley and I usually post directing videos there.

00:48:45

My DMs are open and I'm more than welcome to chat.

00:48:48

So to find out more about Willow, her church, and to see some cool videos, hit her up at
Willow Presley on Instagram.

00:48:56

Willow, you got some great videos on there.

00:48:58

I saw the one, I think it was the best of 2024, and so I probably laughed for five minutes
when that audio started feeding back and you were like, oh, like your face, what's going

00:49:10

on, what's going on?

00:49:12

Tee-hee!

00:49:17

But then some of the moments that you posted in that same reel, I can't remember if it was
a reel or a story or what it was, but just some cool content that you put up there, some

00:49:27

great moments from your church.

00:49:29

It's a very inspiring Instagram channel, so go check it out at WillowPresley on Instagram.

00:49:38

Willow, thank you for coming on the Tech Arts Podcast and talking to us about our
technical instruments of worship.

00:49:44

Yes, thank you, thank you so much for having me.

00:49:46

Well that wraps things up for today's episode, I can't wait to talk to you on the next
Tech Arts Podcast!

00:49:51

Until then, I'm David Leuschner, signing off by wishing you a great day and praying God
blesses every moment of your week!

00:49:59

See you soon!

00:50:00

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Ministries.

00:50:06

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00:50:12

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understanding of the church tech world, DGCM is here for you.

00:50:20

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00:50:28

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