Setting Up Volunteers for Success with the Digico Boyz Matt Larson & Ryan Shelton

[00:00:00] This is The Tech Arts Podcast, where we talk about tech, leadership and all things that can

[00:00:12] search audio, video and lighting.

[00:00:42] You're going to gain some valuable insights from this podcast.

[00:01:12] I've heard a rumor that Wave is joining forces with Cavalow Ron. Can you tell us what's going on?

[00:01:42] That's awesome. Mike is great to meet you. I hear you run Cavalow. Tell us more about this event and how Wave is helping your mission.

[00:02:12] The traditional products happen to be in Vegas. They aren't necessarily about AV but have a good AV presence. Some of them were also in Vegas.

[00:02:22] I don't know if it's ever come to Vegas. Of course, all those shows are 13 of them in total and that up-cancelling are postponing into 2021.

[00:02:37] I know lots of manufacturers. I've been an integrator and audio video integrator by trade now for over 20 years.

[00:02:45] Lots of manufacturers. I know lots of end users and other integrators. I can rent a ballroom and put some people in a room.

[00:02:54] We did and originally we were going to go in September of 2020. That became November, that became February of 2021. Finally in May of 2021.

[00:03:03] The very first Cavalow debuted right here at this hotel that happened to be in today doing another project, the Orlean Hotel in Casino in Las Vegas.

[00:03:10] I reached out to Ron regarding Wave because at first hand I know how hard it is to do a regional event. It is a lot of work.

[00:03:20] You're not going to retire stinking rich off of doing regional AV shows.

[00:03:27] You really have to do it because you're passionate about it and you enjoy it. I really love doing the Cavalows.

[00:03:37] I reached out to Ron after St. Louis show and I said, hey listen, instead of both of us dancing around each other and trying to avoid each other on the schedule,

[00:03:45] because most manufacturers are only going to do one regional show per quarter or so, maybe two.

[00:03:51] But instead of us beating our heads against the wall or against each other trying to fight for good dates and fight good locations,

[00:03:59] maybe we can work together. Let's try it out once or twice. Start with Nashville if it goes well. Maybe we do another one and see if that works.

[00:04:08] I can tell from talking to Ron that his passion is the conference. He loves the learning sessions, he loves helping people grow their ministry through the use of technology or have their ministry at least be more impactful through the use of technology.

[00:04:26] I like the trade show aspect. We do discussion panels, we do educational sessions as part of Cavalows but I love the trade show part of it. I love the booths, I love building the floor, the floor gets torn down, I love the magic of it right you show up one day nothing's there five hours later there's a trade show.

[00:04:43] So that's where I think Ron and I can really work together and help each other out frankly.

[00:04:49] So Ron what can people expect this year at Wave?

[00:04:52] Yeah it's as Mike mentioned, we're really going to benefit from with Cavalows having a more robust expo floor.

[00:04:59] Having you know we've had traditionally somewhere between 25 and 35 exhibitors where when Mike and I are both working on this, we expect that we can bump that up a bit and show more technologies to people.

[00:05:13] The conference part that we've been working on is also going to have some really cool stuff we're going to have some of your traditional lighting design sessions and your audio design but we're incorporating some leadership sessions.

[00:05:25] We've got an AI session where to begin with AI in your church. So we're really trying to have a rounded conference program, you know everybody from the team can come and learn something at the conference and not feel that it's dominated by one topic or another there's something for everybody.

[00:05:44] And Mike I see on your website here and that you get to see the gear and touch the gear.

[00:05:49] You mentioned just a second ago that you really got into the trade show piece of it and even the pictures I see here are amazing it looks like an awesome trade show environment.

[00:05:59] Who are some of the manufacturers that are coming to this event?

[00:06:02] So as of this morning confirmed, let's see I'm just I'm drawing a mental picture of the trade show of the floor plan which by the way is available on the website anybody can download it.

[00:06:12] We updated every two or three days or so if you go to catalog.tech forward slash exhibit scroll down, you'll see the floor plan. You'll see who'll be there.

[00:06:20] But we've got Meyer sound blaze audio planar AMX JPL analog way main light mega sweet water media technologies out of Canada sound control technologies.

[00:06:39] I'm probably missing a few in there, but that that gives you a good idea or a multimedia.

[00:06:46] That gives you a good cross section. I try in particular and I'm sure Ron would agree with me that he tries also and therefore together we both be trying to have a good mix of not just audio video and lighting manufacturers, but also knowing that there's different segments to those right you have the kind of audio that you would use for building video conference rooms and you know corporate.

[00:07:08] Environment versus the kind of you know live audio production audio and same thing for video or lighting and I try and have a nice mix of all that we try to have networking companies there.

[00:07:19] Zyxel company that makes networks which is routers that sort of stuff they'll be there long time exhibitors matter fact I think they've exhibited in every single table so it doesn't really matter what segment or what market you come from if you're in commercial AV,

[00:07:36] they'll be something there for you and where's this happening at Ron yeah we're gonna be a national Tennessee we're gonna be the gay lord operoland Nashville Tennessee now now I know why I'm coming to this event Nashville Tennessee sir at the gay lord yeah I'm definitely going to be there.

[00:07:54] Yeah it's a great property amazing barbecue if you haven't been will keep you entertained there's food there's all kind.

[00:08:03] It's not as good as Texas barbecue out here in Dallas but I'm right yeah you will notice what color this shirt is and my company colors happened to be the same colors as the greatest university on earth.

[00:08:16] What a university would that be might as well give your shout out go for that would be the University of Texas hook them.

[00:08:22] Yeah yeah so Texas barbecue is recognized as the world's best what Ron meant to say was that the barbecue in Tennessee is a close second a very close second well the gay lord all the amenities there sounds like a really fun inviting environment for for a trade show for you know a conference with speakers.

[00:08:43] It totally is and you know what it reminds me of and I'm gonna date myself here because a lot of your viewers probably have never been to a holiday in holiday home.

[00:08:55] But back in the 60s and 70s holiday in had these chain of hotels that had big geo D. Sec domes made out of glass in the middle and you would walk through the dome to get from you know say the pool area to the hotel rooms or from the rooms to the restaurant area right.

[00:09:12] The lobby and check in was right usually the dome there but a lot of them also had like in the dome section they'd have like a little nine hole put put you know.

[00:09:22] Course right set up or they'd have an arcade and open air arcade right the gay lord and apologies to the gay lord people because obviously a gay lord is several steps up from a holiday yeah I was about to say they're gonna they're gonna be like what.

[00:09:37] It reminds me of that though because you can walk this entire property you know indoors they have this huge atrium in the middle that has open air restaurants tropical plants they have.

[00:09:49] Coipons and bridges going over stuff this whole and that's how you get to and from you know say the hotel rooms to the convention center to the restaurant section it's this big open area like it obviously right now it's snowing in in Nashville or Tennessee but generally speaking the weather in Tennessee is pretty temperate if it were in Chicago this gala would be phenomenal be one of those places like you check in and you never have to walk outside until you checked out and you could have eat it like you know.

[00:10:18] Ten different restaurants without ever leaving the property I love the gay lord it's a beautiful proper yeah plus Nashville has a great you know downtown area the gay lord all encompassing you can pretty much do whatever you want right inside the gay lord it's a beautiful complex it's an awesome place to hold this this trade show in conference yeah we love it for all those reasons downtown is I think about a 15 minute drive away so super easy to get around we love Nashville this will be our second time in Nashville actually we were there.

[00:10:48] Spring of 2022 as well.

[00:10:50] Well if you guys want to take your tech skills to another level meet others like you put your hands on the gear and experience amazing speakers training in education you don't want to miss out on the wave conference at the Cavalow event for more information or to secure your tickets please go to wave dash event dot co that's wave dash event dot co you can also go to Cavalow dot tech that's C.A.V.

[00:11:17] L.O dot tech reap the benefits of the Cavalow trade show and the wave conference book your tickets today by going to wave dash event dot co or Cavalow dot tech thank you guys for coming on and telling us more about these amazing events my pleasure

[00:11:35] thank you David coming up in just a few minutes is our conversation with the digico boys Matt Larson and Ryan Shelton we're gonna be talking about setting up volunteers for success talking ideas and best practices for training answering questions like what's the biggest mistake they have seen on an audio console hey that answer will help you hint has something to do with digital screens plus Matt has a hilarious story that happened when he was

[00:12:05] on tour with Prince all that and more after these messages from our sponsors hang on

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[00:12:30] great content is coming up right after this our main sponsor is digital great commission ministries whether you need help building a team finding the right gear or just better understanding the church tech world DGC M is here for you because they are a 501 C3 donor sponsored organization they come to your church for free and do an assessment of your tech visitor engagement and online streaming

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[00:13:33] welcome back to the tech arts podcast today we're talking about setting up volunteers for success with professional audio systems to help us with this chat

[00:13:42] we have in the virtual studio today courtesy of digico Matt Larson and Ryan Shelton welcome back guys it's going to be back load David Matt Ryan before we jump into some of our questions tell us a little bit about your background Matt let's start with you

[00:13:55] I just kind of started in the industry really young and I think it kind of gave you the ground works of understanding what everybody else that that's actually listening this podcast has gone through

[00:14:07] and it's really just trying to learn as I could working for bands when I started in seventh grade I think was the first band I started working with and doing lighting and then audio and then working in high school stage went to school for electronics work for a lot of bands Minnesota has a lot of big bands in the 80s

[00:14:27] and where they made a lot of revenue just playing clubs so there's a lot of work and then some really good sound companies back in the 80s you kind of had these pockets of these little regional sound companies but we had to build everything you couldn't just get online and order your power distribution or you know all your panels everything was custom built.

[00:14:48] So kind of gave me the chops from the front end love learning all that just work with a lot of shops and I think the would probably got me further quicker was just investing the time you know we go to classes nowadays we can watch stuff online we can go to like a digico master's class or something but it's not until you actually then go back and apply it what you've learned are you going to be successful

[00:15:13] so I think that's one thing I kind of I love doing it so I just kept digging and digging and asking questions and you always learn every day we still learn things well were you in seventh or eighth grade when you started working for prints was a little bit older you're a little bit older 19 and a half yeah I saw that on your bio and when you said I started when I was a seventh grade I thought well that's awful young to be working for prints.

[00:15:40] Yeah I had to get some chops first before I got that you had to build up to it so Ryan what's your background where do you this is a funny question where do you come from so Memphis Tennessee is where I grew up in this yeah so I'm pretty good with the gun.

[00:15:56] The other thing is I grew up at a mega church lot of great friends a lot of great times there and you know one of the first rooms I had experience mixing in besides the youth room was you know 7000 seat room 200 person choir 6th person orchestra full band you know all all that kind of stuff and

[00:16:15] there is just a ton to learn but I started off when I was about 11 years old have a couple of really good friends who are still friends still in the industry and various ways and we all just started volunteering we were those nerdy kids who are just coming up and asking questions wanted to help you know rap and might cables and you know set not Mike stands and doing all that I was also a musician.

[00:16:36] So I would usually bounce between playing the orchestra or doing audio and some former fashion and yes I look back on it and it was just so blessed to have people who knew what they were doing guide me along the way so a lot of stuff for me is just instinctive because I was able to have somebody who was a mentor who took the time ported into me answered all my dumb questions

[00:16:59] and you know let us get hands on as well and kind of to Matt's point you know back when I started this as well we were we were all analog there was no virtual sound check there was none of this so you know you didn't go touch the compressor for the pastor you know like there was you know that was not my role to ever be able to do.

[00:17:19] So you know it took a long time a lot longer than you know with a lot of the tools we have available now for people is you know to learn how compressors worked what's a threshold what's ratio what's neat you know how do those affect audio and a lot of that as previously mentioned what's learned back up in the youth room where I like to say I learned how to create feedback and I got really good at it also learned how to not create it so.

[00:17:42] Yeah I grew up in the in the same world Ryan I mean it's it's ever there's the kids today are so blessed you know with MxU and YouTube and some of the things that they can go out and just kind of grab the knowledge almost to bless I think some of the hard knocks of analog consoles have helped me get my Mike placement correct and not lean on plugins and things of that nature to fix this or that or whatever is going on with with the product but.

[00:18:10] Matt you got to tell me you have to have a funny story about touring with Prince or something you got a funny story to tell us well let's see.

[00:18:22] There's a couple probably but I don't know which one.

[00:18:26] Let me say this you have a funny appropriate story.

[00:18:29] I got one I don't remember if I did this on a podcast years ago but this was kind of funny because I was young I was with them you know right after purple rain in the last thing we did was diamonds and pearls album so I was with them for about seven years.

[00:18:45] But when I was with him you know just the new kid and we're playing a big venue and I really took care of him took care of all the wireless stuff and was the crew chief at the time and he came running by me during the encore

[00:18:59] just okay but he runs by and he screams at me is larson I need a Mexican.

[00:19:04] And I'm you know pretty naive still knew I didn't know what to do and I kind of felt like.

[00:19:10] The catty check the guys like bouncing back and forth you know trying to find out okay where am I going to find this so I went backstage you know we have a quick change place underneath the drum riser saw the drum tech and asked him said I don't know what to do he just ran by me and said he needs a Mexican.

[00:19:29] Well Garcia is Mexican he was one of our guitar techs on stage right I don't know he would have just a Garcia I thought and then Helen who's head of wardrobe she was kind of like my mom because I was really young.

[00:19:42] And she I see her and I said hey I don't know what to do Prince just ran by me said he needs a Mexican but I I don't know it's really loud you know encore time right.

[00:19:52] So she goes into the quick change room comes back out she's mad he said he needs oxygen and I'm thinking well can't you pronounce it as you're running by me come on I can't hear it's all this loud noise.

[00:20:05] So yeah okay I can't imagine you like it's Garcia.

[00:20:10] Yeah.

[00:20:13] I was like no talking about so you needed oxygen yeah yeah just because you know you're going full out you know so it's.

[00:20:22] Like a football player you need to dance and play in screaming running and so artists will have oxygen in the dressing rooms just take a couple of good hits and then get back out quicker basically is what it's allows them do different football player.

[00:20:36] Baseball players don't know what that is yeah yeah they it's called sitting on the bench for them but.

[00:20:42] So Ryan hard to top that but you have any church stories you can throw at me yeah yeah I do got a couple so growing up in mega church was pretty fun because you know the scale of things just tends to be bigger and what you deal with.

[00:20:56] We had Christmas and Easter productions we did every year the full out you know like stage extension you know the orchestra we get beefed up we would usually track the choir have them live in the choir room and.

[00:21:07] We had you know for Christmas we did this massive I think it was like 40 foot tall steel Christmas tree put a hundred kids in you might that you know do that that type of production inevitably at any point during these productions you would also need dry ice right so you need lots and lots of dry ice if you're trying to create the mood or the effect or whatever so use your imagination that after these large productions.

[00:21:30] That there would be just pallets of dry ice left over you know and or just you know smaller quantities depending on you know it's just going to go to waste right so you have a bunch of 12 13 14 year old kids who discovered that if you put dry ice inside of an empty two liter bottle.

[00:21:51] And then you filled it with warm water and then you screwed on the lid and you just waited then it made a really massive explosion.

[00:22:00] And you know nothing to show for it because you know other than a cap flying off so we would go outside after doing load out or something like a so 12 or one in the morning and we would just like go out onto one of the patios and we would like you know do you know just some blow up probably 10 or 20 of these things.

[00:22:17] And then the funny part was all the security guards who are also there there's usually one or two on patrol at night you know they would we'd set off a couple and then they would you know come by in their truck you know then wait 10 more minutes and then set off another couple you know and go through that and it was a blast.

[00:22:34] There's no idea you guys were doing it correct no I was you know we didn't have tons of cameras and all that stuff at that point in time you know so you could get away with stuff like that without getting your mom called it must be universal church thing because

[00:22:47] me and a buddy of mine did the same exact thing except we put it in the baptismal oh and we did it David I didn't think about that we did it while people were still in the building and of course we've not done it before so we weren't thinking we just we knew it would explode but yeah we put it in the baptismal I think I think my buddy was up on the genie lift when it went off.

[00:23:14] It's everybody's young. It fell people in the floor they were dropped roll you know yep you can do that these days.

[00:23:22] He built a lot of his genie lift he was laying I looked up he was just laying in the single man genie lift laughing so artists like but you're gonna fall.

[00:23:30] It was hilarious to watch people and you know this is back in the day at least the church I was working I guess it I guess some churches still do this but they had you know robes the quiet robes yeah

[00:23:40] it's really funny to watch people in the road run out of the choir loft like the whole world is falling down around them.

[00:23:51] So we don't recommend this nobody know no no no no no no no don't ever do this ever yeah especially in 2024 that's true yep I don't do a David did yeah did I say it was me as it was a buddy in mine oh yeah well so obviously

[00:24:10] for training and things of that nature we don't need to train them on anybody on dry ice.

[00:24:18] Everybody understands dry eyes but Matt you know trainings important so you know we want to train our volunteers they can get overwhelmed pretty easily unless they're blowing things up with dry eyes.

[00:24:31] But how do we avoid that how do we avoid our volunteers getting overwhelmed I think the thing is is one if you're the mentor teaching them.

[00:24:40] Or if you're just coming into a church that really doesn't have a very good technical staff it's really just see what you have available and just keep things really really simple Ryan brought up you know an analog desk.

[00:24:52] If for some reason you have an analog desk just kind of understanding how the analog flow works or even to see some videos if you can understand the signal flow of analog I think that gets you really far ahead when you work for a big mega church the great thing about that is you've got a lot of the technology.

[00:25:09] But sometimes with that you get the it's so advanced that sometimes it scares you you know all these beautiful cameras and these switchers and stuff.

[00:25:18] But also sometimes the better the equipment gets the easier it can also be to operate.

[00:25:23] But it is an audio engineer a lot of times what it is is people start using plugins and they got all these mics everywhere like you know what everyone's in while it's kind of nice just to go back to flat get rid of some plugins go through a sound check listen.

[00:25:38] Check your mics out you know are have your mics been around for 10 years have they been dropped a ton of times you know it does the mic sound good all by itself and that's kind of like the advantage of a doing a virtual sound check.

[00:25:49] Is I would say that if I had to pick one tool next to the high pass filter virtual sound check is probably the best tool you could use as a volunteer because it allows you to come in on your own time but again we're having to invest our own time to come in all by myself with the computer playing the tracks back with headphones because maybe I don't want to energize the whole PA because the kids are still in class you know down the hall I got to keep it kind of quiet during the weekdays.

[00:26:16] But at least I could actually solo channels adjust EQ adjust dynamics play with some plugins and actually hear the end result I could go into.

[00:26:26] SIP solo in place we like to call it solo in PA or how to get fired best solo in place does is it allows you to if you turn that mode on if you solo a particular channel it basically bypasses all the other channels are mute those other channels in the PA.

[00:26:42] So you could really hear that end result as you're newly around and learning stuff now the how do I get a volunteer to get this one is just asking questions simply watching videos.

[00:26:54] Get into a training class you know we've got for digiko we've got tons of master classes that we do we do installs we do trainings you know on at every install we do.

[00:27:04] But also there's a lot of videos that we've done in some of it just the simple basics of audio so if you just spend some time watching those YouTube videos of digiko you can learn a lot and then there's also with other manufacturers because at the end of the day

[00:27:19] the audio is a really small industry there's a lot of good videos from other manufacturers as well so you can kind of capture different people's approaches how they mix I think over time with COVID also really there's a lot of good content from.

[00:27:31] Touring engineers that had some time and they're kind of the race team.

[00:27:36] You know our people I say would perceive that they are the race team the reality is there's some churches that actually have better systems and better mixes because they've got that consistency

[00:27:47] and they're doing instead of just a one show that they repeat five times seven times a week they're doing a new show every 90 minutes so they actually have to have better chops in the church.

[00:27:58] Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head when you said simple like you know bring it back to flat but really keep it keep it simple and Ryan you know you kind of grew up in that environment you know brand new standing behind a console thrown into the mix.

[00:28:13] Do you agree keeping it simple kind of.

[00:28:16] Absolutely eliminate some of that being overwhelmed absolutely so you know there's oftentimes as professionals we try to create the best system possible right absolute best boutique Mike

[00:28:30] and the best communities best cabling best converters best mixing system best plugin or analog outboard and best PA system and we should all strive for that but there is a strong argument meant to be made.

[00:28:44] For a streamlined system right the benefit that somebody has of a volunteer working in coming in and being able to figure out the system absolutely keep it simple keep it simple as possible and invest into quality year and keep the system symbol.

[00:29:02] I'm asking you is the biggest mistake you've seen on a mixing console and how do you avoid it so Ryan you go first I want to hear from both of you because I know you guys have been around a lot and probably seen some some big ones but what's the biggest mistake on the mixing console and how do you avoid it so I think one of the biggest issues we deal with nowadays is getting distracted by how something looks.

[00:29:25] I always come back to this is on a digital console we usually have big beautiful screens that show us great graphics and lots of feedback and as per mention there's a lot of great resources for people go watch a youtube video watch somebody in a studio you can vocal

[00:29:41] and then they want it to look like that when they come to a console and if you know when I started Dave when you started Matt you had an encoder that was your gain for your mid band EQ and you were lucky if you had that

[00:29:55] and then it was you know somewhere between zero and negative 15 or zero and positive 15 that's right though always had a high pass filter yeah you did and obviously still the most important tool ever developed in audio.

[00:30:07] But you know we didn't know what our EQs look like right we had no clue what the graph EQ graph look like we didn't have one so it was you just kept turning things until it sounded right and I think we get into this modern world we get distracted by our eyes.

[00:30:25] We get you know especially when you're moving from one platform to another right because not all manufacturers use the same logarithmic scale or the same kind of just graphical display as far spacing goes and all that so a lot of people will just you know turn it to look looks right and then wonder what's wrong

[00:30:43] and you know there's extra minutes or seconds that go into that process years and years ago I heard a story of a guy out of Texas and when he got new engineers and he's training them up he would the digital consoles but he would let them patch everything set up all their settings

[00:31:01] and then if it was like some other brand we have an external monitor he'd unplug it if it was a digico then they would just like cover up the screen on the digico with like card stock like black card stock or something like that.

[00:31:13] And you know we could take it off if there's an emergency or something like that but he made a mix the show that way you know and it's like how do you know if you're selected on the right channel well did the guitar change when you change the EQ did you hear it you know and it's just kind of like gets our visuals out of the way and gets us back to using our ears.

[00:31:30] You know when I'm doing trainings I always bring this up as well because digico has a really funny option and I find it just truly hilarious that it gets rid of the decimal point on the display.

[00:31:43] It doesn't get rid of it on when you're actually adjusting your resolution so you're never going to like hear it but it just takes away the decimal point from you the operator seeing it and you have to ask yourself why do we have that option?

[00:31:56] Like why is it necessary to take it out and it's because the vast majority of audio people are OCD to some extent.

[00:32:03] And I would argue probably David you me definitely know Matt is in there as well that we spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get something from negative point one to zero or from positive point two to zero.

[00:32:15] And you know having little things like that that just get your visuals out of the way get your eyes off so now you can turn back on your ears or better yet never leave your ears.

[00:32:25] So you're just adjusting it till it sounds right so yeah I think visuals are probably one of the biggest mistakes people make right now is just getting distracted by the way a plugin looks.

[00:32:34] You know, distracted by the way EQ looks getting distracted by what it looks like versus what does it sound like?

[00:32:41] Yeah, I'm glad to hear you say that because I did an exercise with a volunteer where we threw basically through a sheet over the console and wouldn't let him see anything except for the faders.

[00:32:53] Because he just kept his eyes down on the console the whole time it was missing might cues and things like that.

[00:32:59] And so to me the biggest mistake is the device or the screen just sucks the engineer in and they don't mix the show they don't have their eyes up and they're mixing the show.

[00:33:09] I don't recommend doing that during a performance but turn the rehearsal it worked out.

[00:33:14] That's fantastic.

[00:33:15] But what about you Matt? What have you seen that you're kind of like man, that's the that's the biggest mistake.

[00:33:20] Let me throw one more thing with what Ryan said is like we've always joked we'd like an option so you could get rid of all the graphics and all the numbering.

[00:33:28] So it's a be a feature you can turn on or off.

[00:33:31] I think with that said, what we're trying to do is get the engineer to actually listen to stuff versus visually look at it but also I think we're all guilty of this.

[00:33:39] We kind of go to that kick drum or we go to that snare or we kind of go to that frequency we tighten up our key we sweep it we kind of get stuck in the way we work all the time when reality it's going to be.

[00:33:49] When reality it's kind of nice just to go back off or you know what on a digital you can on a channel you could go to a challenge you've already got to queued you can make a change to it but then there's a buffer so I could go back so I could a be listen to it or.

[00:34:02] I could actually make a preset of that and try different things so I could have like four different styles of e queueing on that instrument and I could then just go back and forth ago which one sounds better do I like this one this one this one or this one.

[00:34:15] And I think when we get back to the basics were just kind of coming back to where we were earlier is just because it looks right it doesn't mean it's right you know what's really improving it and sometimes it's pulled on all the mics start building your mix back up because we have all these open mics what's really happening with all these open mics.

[00:34:38] I think by us making certain that we don't get sucked into the screen that we do what's most important is watch the artist because we get a lot of visual cues of what's going on to.

[00:34:49] We want to make certain that we're meeting things and I'm meeting mics that were not using but you won't know that if you're not keeping an eye on the artist there's a drill I used to run.

[00:34:59] Because when I was mixing you know I had a choir they would come in I'd have like 10 minutes with the choir to get a full choir full band full orchestra like BAM I had to get it done and nowadays I watch people spend 40 minutes on a kick drum.

[00:35:13] And I'm like turn the knob till it sounds good and stop I think I think the guy started waves said that and so drill I would also run with young volunteers is you have one minute to make this sound good go.

[00:35:26] And you know if you start getting too much into waves which is a great tool should be used I understand it but you start getting too much into it sometimes you just get yourself upside down so you have one minute.

[00:35:37] Get it done quick for me the biggest mistake that I've seen on a console is an audio engineer spending so much time on something that at the end of the day the audience is never going to appreciate.

[00:35:48] Yeah and they they don't get to the vocal and they don't get to the actual mix because they spent so much time on a kick or a snare not that it's not that that's not important but you've got to move on and you got to get the mix done especially in the church world when they give you you know 13 and a half minutes on Sunday morning at 7 45 to actually get a good check done.

[00:36:14] And who's who's awake and singing fully at 7 45 in the morning anyway.

[00:36:18] You know what's also interesting is a newer volunteer whatever is if you can during sound check maybe somebody else's mixing whether be at sound checker during the service is to go move around the actual venue.

[00:36:31] I want to hear what does it sound like when I'm at the very front rows on the far right side of the house what does that sound like versus the sweet spot where the PA's hearing

[00:36:42] and it's kind of just to make certain that you're understanding what everybody's hearing it's not just sitting at the desk all the time and listening to it or listening to your left and right mix on the way home.

[00:36:54] It's are we helping do we have problems with our speaker system did something get turned down to something get turned off something broken and really just make certain that all the seats are as best as possibly can and I would say this is my opinion.

[00:37:11] I would sacrifice the music more so I could hear the dialogue that's probably the most important part when I'm trying to set up the system the music is a side don't.

[00:37:22] If I can't hear pastor properly and you've got ages you know young kids to old old adults some older men can't hear high mid ranges and whatever their problems are.

[00:37:33] So you want to make certain that the system is as best of the possibly can be there you want to make certain you know those little things are working your system listening.

[00:37:40] If you've got a crime room I've got an overflow room how does it sound for them and those are things as a newer person you can be giving good feedback that the chair you might not be an expert but you can go sit in those seats and then go talk to the engineers actually mix and say hey you know I was over in this other room and it's not loud enough or it's too loud or we hear the blaring of the TV from the other room going could return that down you know during the service.

[00:38:09] You know just those little things that we can make it a better experience for everybody to kind of piggyback off that real quick.

[00:38:15] It's as an engineer some of the best advice I got when I started was here's like you're going to have a sound that you enjoy that you think is a perfect mix of volume level that you think is ideal there's all those things that you perceive as being like ideal for you this is what I want to hear when I go to church this is what I want to hear when I go to worship but the advice I got was not mixing for me.

[00:38:38] It's mixing for the people in the room and I would argue that every volunteer whatever level of audio proficiency they have they can probably paint the composite member of their church right you know what that age is how they dress the type of music they listen to and to kind of reinforce Matt's point while we will spend ages on a kick drum and a snare drum and the plate reverb on that snare drum right and making sure all those elements are amazing.

[00:39:07] You know you might be at a church where that's very important and you might be at a church where once again they just don't care they want to hear the vocal they want to they want to sing along and they need to hear the words with that and so yeah just mix mix for your audience wherever you're at and that's also as an if you want to move into a touring or.

[00:39:28] You know commercial mixing role later on in your life understanding that is critical being able to mix for your audience some of the best engineers we have in our industry can actually bounce between genres can bounce between really any type of artist that they have because you know if they're mixing in R&B act they know it needs to sound a certain way and if they're mixing a pop act they know it needs to sound a certain way.

[00:39:53] And if you have the chops to understand that you're not mixing for yourself but you're mixing for those that are in the room at that time.

[00:40:00] You know another thing to throw in there is just to get experience Sam a newer audio engineer been there for a year or so what Ryan kind of brought up is I can actually call up pretty much any sound company in my region and go at hit the owner up not just an employee just somehow get a hold of the owner ask if you can come in and help for free.

[00:40:22] You know they're in the summertime they're trying to do a bunch of shows get stuff packed up and all the sudden you might get a job here there mixing live audio you're also working with some guys that are maybe better than what the people are at your church are so you learn from them you can make some extra money.

[00:40:38] But you're also getting another set of opinions that kind of like I might work at a specific church or volunteer the specific church but one thing I find that's what I love is the family of churches even different denominations they all pretty much get along and a lot of people in each area kind of know who's at which church.

[00:40:56] They come over and listen to the room with the other guy through his mix up so I would take advantage of that and just try to know other people don't just get stuck taking that two mile drive from your house to the church every five days you should go visit some other places and see what they're doing.

[00:41:14] You should go see some live shows find go to like the Augusta Hall go talk to that engineer what does he do because that's one thing for me is always wondering how you could mic better the choir what do you do with the symphony you know we get the Ryan and his cello there where do I put the mic because I've only do it get to do it once a year Christmas time.

[00:41:38] You know so you could pick up from this guy's and they everybody in the industry loves to share things that they've learned over time yeah that's one thing I've noticed everybody in the secular industry especially loves to tell you the mistakes they run into and how they have overcome them.

[00:41:55] You know comment that I hear mostly in the church world as I hear hey did you go isn't good for volunteers and it drives me absolutely crazy because I feel like the did you go consoles are the most flexible consoles in terms of setup.

[00:42:10] And for me if you have a flexible console for set up you can set it up to work with your volunteers but Ryan how do you address that I'm sure you've heard that before hey did you go is absolutely you know don't get did you go because it's hard for the volunteers how how do you address that.

[00:42:25] If you had a three console six rack Dante optical or waves redundant engines and all that stuff and you were bought it all from a music store and then you dump it on a volunteer who doesn't know what they're doing to ask them to get it set up is did you co complicated yes in that scenario the answer would be yes so did you go I feel like we tend to get that feedback

[00:42:50] from customers because there is so much scalability to the system right we can go from a very simple S21 S31 with a little Matty rack that anybody could set up anybody could operate all the way up to our flagship consoles and they are designed to be able to do whatever our customers are asking them to do.

[00:43:10] So with a system like that I would say yeah maybe that's not the best for a volunteer to set up now after the system set up hopefully your integrators done that for you hopefully you've had some sort of training being brought in so whether that's factory training or as Matt was mentioning kind of getting to those resources of others in the industry but once it's set up digico is incredibly easy to use and I would actually argue probably easier than most consoles because one of digico's leading

[00:43:39] reasons or struggling to think of the word but just one of our design yeah or just our design philosophies is that an engineer should be able to get anywhere quickly and that's what a professional audio engineer needs and if you think about it what that professional audio engineer needs is the same thing of volunteer needs.

[00:43:59] You know for different reasons maybe but it's a feature that anybody needs so the flexibility of layout yeah that might be overwhelming to somebody who just mixes once a month and you know asking them to lay out a console but if you bring somebody in get that set up the way you want to something that's logical and makes sense then anybody should be able to walk in years ago I've stole this from Matt early on in there but digico has a feature called templates and templates are just like a Microsoft Excel.

[00:44:29] You know word template where you save a session the session cannot be edited not easily anyway and when you load it up it loads up a session enforces you to save your own version of that session and we always encourage churches to have you know there's standard Sunday morning where it's just loaded up everything's routed and ready to go.

[00:44:49] You have a wedding setup you maybe have a funeral or like if the church does some sort of like you know pastor gets all the staff together and does some sort of staff meeting in the room or something like that right where it's a really simple thing but you know with those you could teach anybody anybody in the church to come in and load that session having set up with things like automatic microphone mixers you can basically make these things run themselves so I don't buy into that at all now yes if you had a very complicated system handing over to a volunteer who's not a professional audio engineer.

[00:45:19] I'm not a professional to set it up from scratch. I could see that being a valid criticism but if you're buying a system like that your integrator should be the one setting it up should be the one wiring it should be the one implementing everything and making sure it's good to go.

[00:45:32] You know one other thing to think about is when somebody says that comment that you made that this product or this product is difficult to operate I always kind of go well where's this person coming from?

[00:45:44] They're going on this other manufacturers gear forever and have never tried anything else because all they did is they walked in every day they threw the faders up they put the dust cover back on and they left they never really dug into that piece of equipment.

[00:45:58] So they've actually got stuck in that one manufacturer's equipment and they went and had a one offer something they had to jump on this other desk and we'll say it's a digiko sd9 or something and they were trying to go live right away I would say hey our system

[00:46:13] kind of proven this on we do a lot of most of the big major festivals and most of them have digiko at front of house and monitors and every single stage plus all the touring bands are coming in there.

[00:46:26] And with that said a lot of the bands have not been on digiko in the fact that they have 20 minutes to get up and running to do a full on festival show in front of 8,000 people actually shows how really simple the system is.

[00:46:40] So what we do is just make certain your options are on the way you like it.

[00:46:44] A good integrator when they do the install they basically make sure everything's working we do the training what we like what Ryan was talking about is you basically set the desk up how they do your first sound check we always recommend hey want to do a couple two three four Sundays and you keep saving that session once you're that spot you kind of know you're in a really good spot we like the way things are we added some things like we forgot to send that broadcast patch or the assistive listing was a patch and now everything is going to be good.

[00:47:09] Good solid starting point you can save that session but somebody could load that master session on top so what Ryan is talking about is I can take that master session and we're going to call it Dave's master file.

[00:47:22] And you store it as this template file so every day you can just walk in and hey this is the Sunday service Dave Sunday service so when you load that up it basically comes up with how you left it then it automatically forces you to save it as your new name so I'm going to say it's Matt with today's date.

[00:47:38] So I'm really taking the starting point that you left with a good starting point every Sunday I can maybe make a few little changes because maybe we have an acoustic guitar player where we normally just have two electric guitars so you quickly make that additional change.

[00:47:51] You can still update it you know so let's say I decided we wanted to actually turn these matrix on in the back of the room all the time so you would store that and you could store that an update to your template folder and you're so you're going

[00:48:04] to have that Sunday service that funeral you know what Ryan was talking about with the past having a staff meeting so it makes it really actually simple to operate well I came from the PM 1 D world the Yamaha PM 1 D world sure and for me I was very used to that console and how it worked and how it operated and so when I started looking at the digico SD 7.

[00:48:28] You know I had this initial fear you know like hey this is what I'm comfortable with this has so many options and then I realized hey let me just talk through with digico integration in the training what I need right in front of me.

[00:48:43] And what was so cool is with the Yamaha no knock on the Yamaha great they make great consoles great company but what I was able to do with digico is I was able to put right in front of me what I needed.

[00:48:55] And I was able to put right in front of my volunteers what they needed and so you know I'm doing this for 30 years and I still think that's a concept that digico is kind of mastered I mean you can you don't have to go looking for it it's not buried anywhere you can take what you need

[00:49:11] and get it right in front of you so that when you're mixing when your volunteer shows up they're very comfortable with what they're doing you can set up safety buttons and different things like that.

[00:49:23] And so that's what brought me over to digico it's why I don't understand the hey this they're not as it doesn't work as well volunteers make to me it works far better with volunteers because I can take that console

[00:49:34] and make it do what I want it to do especially on the bigger brands you know we were talking about the SD 7 at that time I think that S21 and some of those things I think are very simple to operate in my opinion.

[00:49:49] Yeah, and you know where we got that from is it's from years and years of the R&D team guys actually listening to the end users.

[00:49:57] And I think that's the one thing digico is so good at that if somebody says hey I wish I had a button or a knob that could do this in this and we're like just sending an email they all go to our support R&D guys they put it on the list

[00:50:11] and then they make the decision if it makes sense or not to do it.

[00:50:14] And I think that's what's made it over time made things even easier and easier but also there's all the features that you as a front of house engineer a monitor engineer broadcast engineer whatever position you're at those features are in the system.

[00:50:30] And also you could take five front of house guys they all kind of work a little bit differently so you kind of the choice and it's not that digico can do so many things so complex against six ways of skin the cat it's no it's if I want the faders to come to me I can have my augs to fader tab you know so I can just hit on the touch screen.

[00:50:48] And I could have my input channels all the way across the desk i'm not having to have my aug sends in the middle of the 12 faders just so I could hit the solo button throughout a show or a service.

[00:51:00] So there's just a lot of things that we've looked at over time to make things more efficient the integration into the claims system on the desk the fact that we can actually tie in elacoustics dnb

[00:51:12] my or Adam send me on the next release i can do o sc controls and maybe i've got a mile my or gal leo and I'd like to do an o sc control of that or my iPad we just try to make certain that not only can we mix what we need to on the digico platform but also add additional features but also we also know we need to play with all the other kids in the block because they might still have a Yamaha in the broadcast room or an avid or some other system

[00:51:41] that they don't have the budget to replace that at this time we want to make certain that our system can tie into theirs and vice versa so we can feed audio back and forth and make it a seamless integration.

[00:51:51] Hey Ryan, so let me ask you this one. You know I'm a small church. I don't have a lot of money. Where do I go? Who do I call to get training?

[00:52:02] I think there are a couple of great options and we were all if you listening from the beginning we were all talking about what it was like when we all got started.

[00:52:11] And one of the a couple of things that I think are essential for training and really awesome is just things like YouTube being able to watch podcasts like this being able to watch shows like this be able to learn from professionals of just glean some little things about how to set it up so like you said we have a lot of information available

[00:52:31] to the actual user now. The user being able to apply that being able to get into that so a couple of things one Matt Larson said it earlier completely agree virtual sound check one of the best tools that is there because now we let somebody come in during the week even if there's nobody there to train them they can hear it just like the band was on stage if they acquire etc and they can they can really learn so I think that's a massive tool if I was going to invest into anything that might be one of the first things I invested in nothing makes you be able to do that.

[00:53:00] Nothing makes you better than being able to make a mistake correct and virtual sound check allows you to make the mistake and get better correct in all you need is a USB cable to plug in the back of an S 21 31 12 or any the quantum.

[00:53:12] And you have 48 tracks and multi track recording right there so it's not like you had to go ask for a couple thousand dollars for some interface boxes it's just a printer cable.

[00:53:21] So and you probably have those already somewhere around and then the probably plenty. The other thing I would say is you know you mentioned and we were talking about our buddy Jeff Sandstrom you know what they do over at MXU you know they've really taken this concept to just say hey you know get an MXU membership and you know the team can go through and learn about Miking learn about like Mike chords they can learn about you know the whole process on there.

[00:53:50] You know which may be applicable to some I think it would be a great place to take people through the third option and I'm going to credit Matt Larson with this one as well because I think he is that in mention this years ago so I don't want to steal it but I think it's a genius move it's every city just about every city I would argue.

[00:54:08] Probably has a touring engineer in that city you may not know them yet you may not you know maybe it's a regional production company or an audio production some company of some kind but chances are there's a company with an engineer in that city that you already live in and there's kind of a really cool outreach I was talking to my wife earlier about this.

[00:54:28] If you needed a new outlet in the church office you know guys are going to call the electrical company and you know whoever that contractor is and they're going to come out and work and you know you trust that person to do their job because they're professional at that job.

[00:54:44] It's also the way the church gets to witness who they are to that person so there's you know that electrical contractor coming in may or may not be a Christian you know you may or may not know who you were.

[00:54:58] You know you are as a church and so that interaction that they receive with your staff and with your people through that process is a great way you know just on the daily where that church can be a witness to other people who wouldn't normally come into that building.

[00:55:11] And if you apply this to something like audio where you could bring in an engineer and maybe they have some time off during the week or they're off of a tour and they have you know a month off will bring them in to mix on some Sundays

[00:55:25] and you were going to gain knowledge from them because as we said before those people share what they know the mistakes they've made what they've learned and all of that you're going to get amazing personalized training for what you need

[00:55:37] and you get to be a witness to that person you're bringing them into a church and some of them may never have been in a church before that may not have been anybody's ever invited them before so you know as a church and a way to reach out I think it's great.

[00:55:53] I think it's also a great training resource available because having somebody in there with you and you know if you buy a digico system right we're going to include factory training and one of our trainers, one of our contractors they're going to come in they're going to give you a great personalized training but ongoing that year later after you have the system.

[00:56:11] You know just you know you have a new volunteer staff and you want to get them up that you have local people tap into those local people build relationships build the network get advice from professionals

[00:56:22] and you can be a witness for Christ at the same time.

[00:56:25] A little trick is to they might not want a tour forever they might be looking to get off the road they might be looking for a job.

[00:56:33] Yeah stable job good people routine starts on time in on time no one's throwing coke said she because they don't like the mix probably not coke but yes correct.

[00:56:46] Yeah Christian Fox.

[00:56:49] Yeah speaking of throwing things my dog I took him for a walk and somebody had a white claw laying out on the street and they my dog picked it up in his mouth and was running down the sidewalk.

[00:57:02] Everybody's going to think this is what I drink all the water correct yeah good dog.

[00:57:09] Our pastor our pastor would always say because when he had it we you had to be live to TV if you were doing it at that day nature you could do you know tape delay and recorded.

[00:57:18] We were a church that did it live and then we switched to tape delay at some point time but you know when you have a certain popularity of your senior pastor right he would travel around and people would recognize who he is

[00:57:29] and his comment was always he would be like you know go up on his own flight people recognize him say hello you know then he goes up to use the restroom and the restroom is a mess you know and he said he would always clean it up because inevitably you know the person that came in after him.

[00:57:48] Was was the one who recognized him on the plane knew who he was you know and just didn't want to be known as the guy who you know left that bathroom of just an absolute mess on the plane so what's your pastor name for clean up your plane bathrooms.

[00:58:06] What a nice guy oh yeah so nice you know I wouldn't do that even if I was a pastor.

[00:58:14] I'm not sure. Anyway back on the subject Matt what's your favorite part of the digico console.

[00:58:20] Oh boy that's really a hard one get it down to one get it down to one okay.

[00:58:26] I've been here for 16 years and I still love talk about every part of it but I would say one of the most powerful one it would be global set to default

[00:58:36] and what that is is you can open up the global set to default go to say your input channels and you could say I want to mute all the inputs or I want to put all my faders to zero or.

[00:58:46] I want to redo my sound check but I like my EQ in my dynamics so let me go to my aug sends and take all my aug sends off and turn them all off.

[00:58:56] So it's a real fast way to kind of clean some things up and not destroy your whole built-up session that you had so that's probably one of them next optional.

[00:59:05] I snuck that other one in yeah you did but Ryan I'm not going to ask you what the most important part of the console is I'm going to ask you which is more important on my church do I buy do I put my money in the console or do I put my money in the PA.

[00:59:20] So obviously I can't wait to hear the answer to that question and we will but we have to wait for part two which comes out very soon speaking apart to in that episode we'll be talking about the brand new foyer audio system this engine allows you to run any VST 3 plugin live.

[00:59:42] You heard me right any VST 3 plugin can be run live on this new system we'll talk about how it works on the next tech arts podcast plus how do you troubleshoot your PA what are capital budgets and how do you convince your leadership to spend money on tech.

[01:00:01] And how do you pick the console that is right for you in your church will answer all of those questions and more on part two of our discussion with the digiko boys Matt and Ryan.

[01:00:14] Well that wraps things up for today's episode I can't wait to talk to you on the next tech arts podcast until then I'm David Loisiner signing off by wishing you a great day and praying God blesses every moment of your week see you soon.

[01:00:28] You have been listening to the tech arts podcast presented by digital great commission ministries DGCM is a 501 C3 nonprofit that was started to help churches with all things technical whether you need help building a team finding the right gear or just a better understanding of the church tech world DGCM is here for you find out more about our free on site visits reports and consulting by going to audio video letting dot com.

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