Cinema, IMAG & Broadcast with Jeremy Bagwell

[00:00:01] This is The Tech Arts Podcast where we talk about tech, leadership and all things that can search our audio, video and lighting. Welcome to The Tech Arts Podcast and the Earthworks Audio Studios, my name is D.L. So glad to have you joining us today.

[00:00:24] This podcast is dedicated to video. We'll be talking about a cool video tech tip and we'll also dive into the subject of cinema, IMAG, and Broadcast. What does it mean to shoot your service in a cinematic style? Does that require you to do something different?

[00:00:40] How does it relate to IMAG and do you have to buy different gear? And finally, how does your broadcast switch play into your cinematic switch? We'll also talk about frames per second or FPS. The history behind 24 frames per second and how it can affect your video.

[00:00:58] Plus we dive into some volunteer talk. After inquestions like when should you retrain your volunteers and should kids be able to volunteer? This is going to be a fun one, you don't want to miss a second.

[00:01:11] But before we get things started I want to remind everyone listening that we could not do this podcast without the help from worship facility.com, Earthworks Audio, Digico, Cerman Shots, and Digital Great Commission Ministries. That last one, Digital Great Commission Ministries?

[00:01:29] Well that's the life force behind this podcast. DGCM's goal is to provide churches with the ability to effectively use tech to help fulfill the great commission. From articles, a podcast, tech tips to giving away free gear, DGCM is there for your church.

[00:01:47] Find out more about them by going to audiovideoliting.com. Okay right now, DGCM is offering a special on two things. First, if your audio system needs a tune up, DGCM offers the ability to come in and tune your sound system using the software smart from rational acoustics.

[00:02:08] Second, if you want to learn how to use this powerful software on your own, DGCM is offering zoom training classes that teach you how to use the smart software. If you're interested in any of this or finding out more about DGCM, please go to audiovideoliting.com

[00:02:27] and click on schedule a call. Now today's podcast features an interview with Jeremy Bagwell. Up until a few weeks ago, Jeremy worked for Ross as their House of Worship representative. Since we recorded this podcast, he has left that position and currently works for Skylark.

[00:02:44] Skylark is one of the great integration companies in the marketplace. If you've not heard of them, I would encourage you to go check them out at Skylarkav.com. While Jeremy is still a proponent of Ross video and has an extensive church background,

[00:02:58] all of which we're going to learn from today, I wanted to make sure you knew his role has changed. In talking with Jeremy, we decided to leave all the introductions the same so you'll

[00:03:08] hear us intro and talk as if he works for Ross but please know that he now works for Skylark. Okay, after that confusing disclaimer, let's get this podcast started. Today's church tech tip is the Touch Drive Switcher panel from Ross video to talk to

[00:03:24] us more about this product. Please welcome to the Tech Arts podcast, Jeremy Bagwell. Hey Jeremy. Hey, what's up? Glad to be here. I think it's been a while we've been trying to put this together.

[00:03:34] We have been trying to put this together for a while and I'm glad to have you on. We're going to talk a little bit more about Imag and Broadcast a little bit later.

[00:03:42] We always do a church tech tip to kind of give our audience some new technology that's out there that they can go look at and put their hands on because after all, it's a lot of text that listen to the podcast. I can't go.

[00:03:54] So if we didn't give them that, I feel like what is that? Because all this other stuff. But tell us a little bit about this Touch Drive. Yeah, the Touch Drive panel came out a couple of years ago. It works with our Carbonite Switchers or Acuity Switchers.

[00:04:08] So we say Touch Drive Switcher panel because it is a panel. It is a control service for a switcher. So there's no video, I-O, processing on the panel. Because there's so many more inputs than maybe the small format switches usually have.

[00:04:27] So it connects to a switcher frame and gives you control of like taking camera one and putting graphics in and all those type of things. So if you're familiar with controlling a video switcher, then the Touch Drive panel is

[00:04:42] the way to operate the video switcher is just a control service. It looks like a switcher to me. But if I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds like it's a little bit more- even though there's a tactile thing you can touch.

[00:04:56] It's a little bit more virtual so it can expand with your switcher. If you expanded your switcher or you say you don't have to start all over, you don't have to start all over because inside of the carbonite panel, I'm sorry, the carbonate frame.

[00:05:10] So if you can upgrade to more MEs when you need it and things like that, you can also get- Well the reason why I say you can expand is because the Touch Drive panel has very similar look and feel no matter what size.

[00:05:25] So maybe for the first couple of years, you have the small one and then maybe the small one then moves over to becoming a switcher panel to control your broad cast stream, still connected the same switcher frame and you can get a larger panel that connects

[00:05:40] to the same frame and operates a different MEs. So what I am a big fan of is that because of the way you can stylize it and color things differently and they're touch-numonic so every screen is a touch screen.

[00:05:55] So there's deeper menu things that you can get into and you can have a more customized way of operating the switcher. Does it just control Ross products or is it able to control playback devices and things of that nature?

[00:06:08] Great question, the Touch Drive panel doesn't do any of the control, the switcher frame. So all of our switchers control external devices like like purpose-inter or a per video player or any of the Ross video servers, anything with really some type of TCP connection

[00:06:28] can ultimately be controlled by the switcher frame. Now those handles of control are on the Touch Drive panel, right? It doesn't matter if it's touch-rip panel or whatever, it's just through the TCP connection of the switcher frame itself. Does that make sense?

[00:06:45] It does and what I love about the Ross ecosystem is you're very familiar with churches, how church literally operates, you mentioned purpose-inter there. A lot of other video companies would be like purpose-inter what?

[00:06:57] So it's really cool that when you're inside the Ross ecosystem, whether it be the switcher or whether it be this, the Touch Drive, you understand what churches are doing and what they have to do with their products.

[00:07:10] So what it sounds like you're saying is, even though this is kind of virtualized controlling the Ross switcher, you can put the handle on there to do everything that the switcher can do and then as your switcher grows or even maybe downsizes or expands in different

[00:07:25] ways the Touch Drive can be a solid piece that just stays with you as that goes along. And it also provides like this I call it elevated user experience so like from my 15 plus years of being in church production full time before working at Ross video,

[00:07:43] I realized hey having a volunteer in front of a switcher video switcher is very intimidating for them. And so what I love about the Touch Drive panel is it allows us as people in charge of the volunteer experience, we can give them elevated volunteer experience.

[00:08:00] So like we can say hey everything on this thing, this colored red does this, everything that's green does this or let's say let's build some macros and the red macros do this or the green macros do this or so therefore they sit down, they feel like okay cool.

[00:08:20] There's so many different ways to use a switcher, this is how we at our church on our Sunday morning or Wednesday night, this is how we function here the things built out laid out right or wrong.

[00:08:29] That's what I love the most about it because there are just so many options and how you can set it up to make it easy and lower the learning curve. So you can customize it like I could do a nice red button that says sermon video announcements

[00:08:44] and they just hit that button and it does it. For me it's lyrics and so I think the thing that I missed all the time was we went from like pastor's welcome into worship music and we just totally forgot to like put purpose

[00:08:58] in on the screens because we were doing other things like so I was like there there's a red lyrics in button just hit the red button. It's all we have to do. Hit the red button.

[00:09:09] No one has a fumble around for a key or like what source it is just hit the red button. Well if you want to find out more about Ross products go to RossVideo.com. Ross is proud to boast the industry's widest range of video product solutions.

[00:09:23] Find out more about them at RossVideo.com. Jeremy are you able to hang with us a little longer and talk some switching, get into the IMAG broadcast and maybe talk a little bit about cinema and the cinematic looks that are very popular right now. Yeah I'd love to.

[00:09:39] I got a lot of thoughts about it. So you'll be fine kind of make sure you stay put for this conversation. Jeremy and I will talk the difference between IMAG and broadcast switches best practice principles for both IMAG and broadcast.

[00:09:53] We'll dive into the world of cinematic what it means and how you can shoot that way and what it changes. Plus we'll talk volunteers, kids on your tech team, why rehearsals matter even for the video team.

[00:10:08] All of that is coming up right after this word from our sponsors hang on everyone. Thank you for listening to The Tech Arts Podcast. Be sure to tell all your friends about us. Give them the website TechArtsPodcast.com to find out more.

[00:10:30] More great content is coming up right after this. Our main sponsor is Digital Great Commission Ministries. Whether you need help building a team, finding the right gear or just better understanding the church tech world, DGCM is here for you.

[00:10:49] Because they are a 501C3 donor sponsored organization, they come to your church for free and do an assessment of your tech, visitor engagement and online streaming. Plus we give away free gear. Be sure to go to audiovideoliting.com and register your email today.

[00:11:09] This will sign you up for all of the free giveaways and give you first access to everything we offer for free. If you want free resources, training or consulting, contact Digital Great Commission Ministries today by going to audiovideoliting.com. That's audiovideoliting.com. Welcome back to TechArtsPodcast.

[00:11:35] Today we're going to be diving into the subject of IMAG and Broadcast. Plus touching on a few other topics that are important to the church in how it operates video. Joining us today to talk about all of this is Jeremy Bagwell from Ross video. Hey, Jeremy.

[00:11:51] Hey, what's up? How are you doing, man? Oh, man. You know, just live in life and having one podcast recording at a time. Helping churches is fun. Yeah, well, I just gave the intro and told everyone that you're from Ross.

[00:12:06] But what they don't know is that you have an extensive background working with churches. So tell us a little bit about yourself and what all you have done and what all you are currently doing. Yeah.

[00:12:16] So what I have done is since, I don't know, I call myself like a church geek. I grew up as a pastor's kid and then sometime around when I was 16, started playing in worship bands.

[00:12:31] This is in the late 90s, so yes, I have gray hair and yeah, I'm that old. So playing worship bands in the late 90s was not very good, but I really really loved church, love church production, love creating worship experiences which was all kind

[00:12:49] of like new from a modern standpoint. So you know, we can sing songs and rock and roll style instead of him. Really feeling love with that. My faith obviously was a big, big deal and still is, but that helped get me into where

[00:13:05] I am now, which I mean, basically the last 18 years working full time in church production. There was a one point in time where I became a student pastor because that's just what you did. In the early 2000s, that's how you worked at churches.

[00:13:20] There wasn't really any like full time production people. Yeah, the student pastor was the IT person. They were the camera switcher director audio. They were everything including the youth. Yeah, I think I was building like websites for the church too.

[00:13:37] Like I was like a WordPress template hacker, you know, back in the day. So yeah, did a lot of different things and it's really found my way with full time production, and then audio, then eventually moved over to a large church here in the Atlanta area.

[00:13:58] I fell in love with video, started video directing, video engineering, really all the audio video lighting engineering side of things. And then right before I joined Ross, I was working at North Point Community Church.

[00:14:10] So another so all in all three churches over this man of the, about the 15 to 18 years in full time church work. So it's been really fun. I've learned a lot and I have a huge passion for church texts and production managers, directors to have great Sunday experiences.

[00:14:28] That's about passion. He said you were a pastor's kid. Yeah, so you gave your dad gray hair early, right? Ah, yeah. Pretty much. I mean, I remember crawling underposed during sermons, you know, small church, small, southern Baptist church life. Yeah, he's like point number one. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:14:47] Yeah, exactly. Correct. Correct. Well, yeah, a mom throwing things at me. I see what. Yeah. Well, let's get into our subject matter today and just hit you with the first question here, man, what's the difference between IMAG and broadcast switch?

[00:15:02] So we have a lot of, you know, texts out there. I know we have some pastors that listen, they end up like the youth pastor, they end up having to do it all. And they probably heard as earlier say IMAG, broadcasts and like, what the heck's that?

[00:15:15] So what's the difference between the IMAG and the broadcast switch? I would say that like what I say is not necessarily what, I don't know if it's what everyone would say, but I describe it and just from the experiences I've had.

[00:15:27] Broadcast is hey, a style in which you present video to someone who is not in the same room as that experience happening. So think like Super Bowl, think any other large concert, there's audience in that experience and they can look to the field, they can see what's happening.

[00:15:50] They can look to the scoreboard and see the video display or concert, same thing. But us as an audience on the other side of the TV or other side of the camera lens, we have a drastically different experience. We can't just look at a field.

[00:16:05] We have to be looking at the TV the entire time. And so a broadcast experience or like broadcast versus IMAG, broadcasts like, hey, what is the experience that you're giving someone who only has this video screen to look at?

[00:16:20] So how do you help your experience extend from people who can see the room being in the room, how you extend that to people that could just see on a TV? Broadcast experiences, a lot like there is no control for us who's watching the Super Bowl.

[00:16:39] We're at the mercy of whatever they show us. That's a broadcast experience. And IMAG experiences like, hey, I'm in the room and I have these large video screens. And the large video screens are going to help me translate what's happening the room.

[00:16:54] I can turn my head and I can look at the wall or the door or I can see, you know, lead singer, I can take my eyes and see a whole bunch of different experiences.

[00:17:05] And so when we say IMAG or image magnification, we're saying, like, hey, we're creating experience on those big giant displays, LED walls, projectors, TVs, whatever it may be. We're creating experience for the audience to see maybe details that they can't normally

[00:17:21] see with their own eyes in the room. So think about like this snare drum. Well, people in the back of the room might not be able to see the snare drum and see

[00:17:29] the stick hitting the snare drum or see the facial expressions of the drummer or see the facial expressions of how the guitarist is worshiping. So for us, even though the person in the room can experience the whole room,

[00:17:42] we're giving them details that they can't necessarily see with their own device. Yeah, I think that's a good explanation. Yeah, IMAG, you're in the room. How do you bring it closer? Broadcaster outside the room? How do you show them the room?

[00:17:54] How do you show them what's going on? Now you said Super Bowl three times. I meant to ask you this before we got into it. And this is going to air after the Super Bowl. But right now we're recording it before the Super Bowl. Yeah, it's a Jeremy.

[00:18:07] Who's your Super Bowl prediction? Who are you thinking of when? Man, I'm on the Kansas City Chiefs, me and my 11-year-old, once a play out, well, once the Falcons, Lannifalkans were limited from the eliminated from the playoffs.

[00:18:21] Then we kind of choose like our team for the rest of the playoffs. So mine was the Kansas City Chiefs. His with Dolphins, don't give me a start on him being a Dolphin fan.

[00:18:31] But anyway, so Kansas City Chiefs, I just need Patrick Mahomes to be really good until the Falcons start being really good. So I'm kind of like, let Patrick Mahomes get his before the Falcons are good. Well, I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan for life.

[00:18:45] So basically we lose every playoffs for like the last 28 years. So I'm in miserable land in terms of my team. But I think the NFL wants the Kansas City Chiefs to win. So I think the Kansas City Chiefs are going to win.

[00:19:01] I think they're going to beat the 49ers. But I'm really not rooting for either team. I wouldn't matter to me, which won one. But I think the Kansas City Chiefs are going to do it. Plus, you know, I've never seen a quarterback like Patrick Mahomes.

[00:19:14] Like he just puts a team. It doesn't matter how bad the rest of the team is playing. He puts a team on his back and takes him across the finish line. I think it's pretty amazing. It's pretty incredible. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I could talk all day about football.

[00:19:29] So let's move on. Are you pro guy or a college guy? I'm actually both. What's, I don't work on Sundays. So like I have become much more in a field guy over the last three, four years. I mean, obviously because you're not working all day on Sunday anymore.

[00:19:44] So you can watch games. But ultimately college football has been the thing that that's we for what 18 weeks, a year or whatever, that we orient our lives around Saturday college football. I think I'm the same way. I'm kind of both, but I'm a little like with pro football,

[00:20:04] I'm Dallas all the way with college football. I tend to pick different teams that I'm rooting for through the anyway. And other than that, we need to get back on the subject matter here. So let's go. Let's back to the Zimag broadcast thing. So question about, about IMAG.

[00:20:21] What are some principles? You're out there listening, you're a tech. You're wanting to learn, like how do I do this a little bit better? I understand what IMAG and broadcast is now. So what are some of the most important principles for an IMAG switch? Uh, most important principles.

[00:20:37] I say I'll always think about the purpose. And I also say, let's back up. Think about the purpose and it being an IMAG situation. So you're wanting and your purpose is to give more details. Now, we're leading them through an experience.

[00:20:56] So I think there's two different kind of styles in which we do things. There's the music moment. And then I would call there's the talking moment or sermon moment. Welcome moment. So sermon and welcome are very similar in their styles.

[00:21:08] And then music obviously has a little bit different style, probably cutting to more things a little bit faster. Ultimately, IMAG is like, hey, use some discretion because you what these people this room see on the screens is part of the experience. You're leading them.

[00:21:29] So you're like part of the worship leading experience. And so if you have to think about it from that framework of like, I'm not doing like a very mechanical exercise of like always do this. Always do this. You're part of the artistic expression,

[00:21:46] but your expression is to lead in a very practical way. Which means like, hey, right before someone starts singing, please cut to them and make sure we see them before they start singing because that's going to help engage the person in the audience to start singing as well.

[00:22:03] We want to see the worship leader sing. We want to, if everybody's singing all the time, then let's see the facial expressions and the emotions. Let's not see a tight shot of the guitar in a moment where we're wanting the audience to sing along.

[00:22:20] You know, like we want to help motivate people and engage so they can start engaging in worship with our savior just the same way as the worship leaders are. The controversial thing that I would say that I don't know you may agree or disagree

[00:22:39] with me, but our role like in doing cameras on screens, it's not a creative position and I know a lot of people think differently about that or it's it's not an artistic position. Our role is to give the helping gauge, but there's a line when art becomes distracting.

[00:23:04] And so we have to make sure like, hey, maybe it's not our job to be creative, maybe it's our job to capture the creativity and the art that's happening in the room. And I think sometimes as camera positions, especially in the film,

[00:23:20] we watch shows every day, every week, we watch shows that have very, very artistic camera shots. But those are done with the purpose because the producer directors trying to engage us in the show. The worship experience is a whole other level of like we're wanting to people

[00:23:38] to engage with their savior, we don't want them to engage with the camera shot. We don't want them to be distracted by what that camera's doing. Oh, what a great shot. Like for me, I'm

[00:23:49] like, I don't want an audience person to be like, what a creative shot. That I don't feel like that moves people into that puts us in the spotlight, not Jesus. So there's a fine line there,

[00:24:01] but you have to find it and you have to continue to repeat that and say, our job is to tell the story, show what's happening and help translate what's happening on the stage and help

[00:24:13] audience engage with it. The way I like to say it is the camera of the switchers and instrument of worship. And I think if you think of it that way, just like a guitar player or a keyboard player

[00:24:24] is on the stage, if you think of it as an instrument of worship, I think it allows you to navigate that line of distraction, not distraction a little bit better. And here's what I mean by that.

[00:24:34] As a worship leader playing electric guitar, if you ran to the front of the stage, landed on your knees and stuck your tongue out as you were playing the electric guitar, well, you're still

[00:24:44] leading worship. But at that point, it's all about you and not about what's going on in the room, as far as, you know, inviting an atmosphere that the Lord Jesus Christ can come into and move.

[00:24:56] It's all about that person. Well, I think the same thing applies for camera operators. It's your instrument of worship. I think with IMAG for me, it's a little bit more logistical.

[00:25:07] Like we're trying to show people things and get a closer shot so that if they're in the back of the room, they feel closer to what's going on in the platform. And so I think IMAG

[00:25:20] leaves a little bit more logistical. I think during worship, IMAG probably leans logistical but has more creative in it during worship. But then when you get to the sermon, I feel like IMAG is almost strictly logistical. You're really just trying to bring people closer,

[00:25:33] make sure they see the sermon notes and that he's trying to present his sermon points and things like that. But for broadcast, you know, talk a little bit about the important principles for broadcast.

[00:25:46] Because I think that dynamic, at least in my opinion, shifts a little bit. When you talk about broadcast and somebody sitting at home and watching. So talk about some of the important principles for the broadcast switch. Yeah, so when you think about engagement, you think about like,

[00:25:59] hey, audience engagement, audience through the room, and then you then shift over to, okay, if I'm just watching a video screen of a church service. And if we took the IMAG switcher cut,

[00:26:14] that's, you know, the ME, the thing that changed in the camera shots, you know, on screen. If we took that video and put it on a screen in front of you at your home,

[00:26:23] you would see a bunch of tight shots. You would never see the audience. You would probably never see four or five worship leaders altogether because IMAG is making things bigger, showing the audience details that they can't see with their own eyes. So what's really difficult

[00:26:41] is when you do that on a screen. And it would be a cool exercise for you for folks who like, to do that, to record it and then watch it during the week and be like, and see what

[00:26:51] it feels like. It just feels like everything's up close. Everything's here. And I don't see, if I'm sitting in my home watching, I want to see what the room is doing. I actually want to see

[00:27:02] what the congregation is doing. And when I see the congregation connecting, raising their hands and worship, maybe laughing, the audience starts is laughing at a joke or a comment that the pastor makes. When I see that, it gives me permission to do that as well. It doesn't make

[00:27:18] me feel like I'm on the other side of the TV and just being like, oh, you know, I'm not sure what's happening. You know, like it frees you up to feel like your part of the experience that's

[00:27:30] happening and you're kind of joining with them. And so when you take maybe like a big, like take some of their camera wide in the room and you show the audience, it does give this like,

[00:27:42] I don't know, I have the way I think to press it's like it opens everything up and disarms us in a lot of ways. When we're watching on the other side of the screen, imagine like a football

[00:27:52] game where all we saw was like quarterback tight shots and like we never got to see the fan experience. We never saw fans cheering and we were just watching the players like, you know,

[00:28:06] waist up shots, we would be like what else is happening? Like we would be very it's it's yeah, there's got to be some other things that are going on, you know, like Taylor Swift in her box

[00:28:17] cheering. Exactly. Yes, right. So that's that's the broadcast cut or broadcast experience and I think a lot of churches could do a little more thinking about like how are we being intentional about

[00:28:32] how are we being intentional with helping people connect and be moved by what's happening in this room? So let's show them, you know, and just think through that was a little bit more purpose.

[00:28:45] The word I use is it's more immersive. Yeah, which is which is a good point. I know we're talking a lot about video but on the audio side of things, I think having audience, mics and things of

[00:28:57] that nature that allow people to feel like they're in the room. I think those are some keys to broadcasts. I tell people all the time, I'm like, they're like, hey, how do we get into broadcasts?

[00:29:07] I said, well, take your eye medics switch and every now and then add a wide shot. Like you don't have to go super crazy with this out of the gate and maybe you don't have all of the tools and

[00:29:17] instruments to be able to do multiple switches but speaking of that, the two Amy switcher thing. You said, Amy there earlier, it kind of explained that and for a church that maybe doesn't

[00:29:31] have a two Amy switcher but they have oxes or some other things help talk through how they can maybe get to a broadcast switch. Yeah, so Amy is similar to the audio desk. It's a way to create

[00:29:47] two different outputs. It's not the same thing, it's a way to flavor like an audio world. My learning audio is like, hey, you're sending two different flavors of ice cream out. That's what the audio desk does. Well, that's what the video switcher does is sending two different

[00:30:05] flavors of the video. So think like, Amy one may have camera one in that moment and then Amy two goes your broadcast and maybe it has camera two or maybe camera eight or camera whatever four. Whatever, every moment you were able to choose independently what camera

[00:30:28] goes to what Amy or if you don't want to use, if you get in caught up in the word, Amy we just say like output one into or ox wanted to. So you get to choose independently.

[00:30:38] Now it was really cool about videos with yours and similar to audio consoles, you can then sink them up. So one of those like, like we need like take camera one, take camera four,

[00:30:51] that is then going to both outputs in a certain moment and then you can split them apart and and flavor them separately. So it could be the same thing or it could be separate. So however your

[00:31:02] video switcher may work, you can use ox's or Amy's to accomplish that task. But that's the overall concept. To me as an audio guy, I'm glad when you set ox's because I think a lot of audio

[00:31:16] guys that makes it a little bit easier for them to understand is basically a separate output, you know like your sender, your foyer and your sender, your main PA. That's exactly what two

[00:31:26] Amy's are and what's really great about Ross in a lot of the videos which has do this but what I like about Ross and the fact that they really understand churches is everybody's sitting

[00:31:36] out there right now is going, oh do I need two people now? One to switch I'm Ag one to switch broadcasts. I'm an old school guy and if you have tons of budget then yeah that's great. Have a

[00:31:47] person who's switching I'm Ag, have a person who's switching broadcasts but what's great about Ross is they make a lot of things really easy when it comes to macros, when it comes to buttons on the

[00:31:59] switcher that allow one person to actually switch for I'm Ag and broadcasts so you're in the middle of an IMAG switch and maybe when you take a certain shot it will automatically take a wider shot

[00:32:11] for your broadcasts. Talk a little bit about that and how you can set it up so that one person can do both. Yeah I like the thing about it so you know you can go to like our website see the videos

[00:32:25] which are that we have touch drive panels is what our video control surfaces is so we can give you a visual about like what I'm talking about but you got buttons and you're choosing basically

[00:32:38] in that moment whatever camera you wanted to be or maybe it's a graphics source or whatever so you're like okay I need to take camera one now you take camera four camera two so I'm so forth

[00:32:50] so you can have a camera seven button now when you press that camera seven button it doesn't take it on the ME one bus because that's going to your IMAG screens but it takes camera seven in

[00:33:01] ME two or an ox depending on how you how you have it set up and so like think about like you're strong along and all of a sudden the pastors like setting up a joke and you hear laughter

[00:33:14] happen and you just boom hit the camera seven button you don't have to navigate to a different stripe you don't have to go formal around to figure out like oh wait where's that how do I do that

[00:33:23] like boom it's right there clearly defined on that same row of buttons that you're already working on so boom hit that now it takes camera seven or your audience shot to your broadcast and then

[00:33:36] I would set up another macro that says like program sync or IMAG sync basically then it allows the broadcast to be synced back up with what you're doing on any one and so it's really just two

[00:33:51] buttons this is boom hit camera seven they laugh and you're like okay now I'm ready to go back to tight shots on broadcast so you hit your sync button and now everything that you do on your

[00:34:02] ME one bus is also going to your broadcast and you can kind of set those macros up for many different cameras that you want to control on your broadcast experience and what's great about Ross just

[00:34:13] to brag on Ross a little bit here Jeremy is because you guys understand churches you can look at specific workflow that the church has and you can set up their switcher so that it works for them

[00:34:27] you know because not one situation is every situation and so what I like about Ross is that you guys kind of come in and say oh I've even seen you save money where churches are coming in saying hey we need

[00:34:38] a 3ME switch you look at the situation go ah you could probably do this with one ME and an ox output or whatever um so they look at kind of your flow your workflow and help you navigate that with the

[00:34:51] technology so just to brag on Ross a little bit for that but let's talk a little bit about the word cinematic it's a buzzword right now in the Christian community oh yeah it's uh I would call it

[00:35:03] landmine a little bit so what does this word mean does it require me to shoot 24 frames per second like a lot of people get angst when they hear the word cinematic like talk through that word a little bit

[00:35:15] and let's put some minds at ease yeah so uh it's been really fascinating over the last two years to have this conversation um and the cinematic concept is uh if for someone who doesn't know and like

[00:35:28] oh there's a difference between the two well the difference between the two is like when you go to a movie and you watch a movie a lot of those are captured recorded and edited and then exported

[00:35:43] in uh the cinematic style because cinematic side there's a long you could wick a pdf the article there's a whole long history of you know cinema and so there was a for a long period of time

[00:35:55] the cinema industry making films standardized on a certain frames per second and then the broadcast video industry standardized on a different frames per second the reality is is that they all they both accomplished some great things and what they do but they all have their

[00:36:17] their pros and cons but ultimately when you think cinematic the what you're seeing and what reason why people are like oh I want cinematic or I want broadcast cinematic is a shallow depth

[00:36:30] of the field which means you know think about like our iPhone cameras are the newest ones are doing this where it's like I'm in focus and then my everything in the background like right

[00:36:40] past my shoulders are like way out of focus a big bokeh type of like I can't even tell us there football is doing it now and a lot of their sports are doing it where even the sideline reporters

[00:36:53] are using cinema glass or cinema lenses and cameras to capture that interview where like you can barely tell their football players behind them well that's because it's very shallow depth of field the reason why that was a lot of the reason why it existed in cinemas because

[00:37:12] they were doing a movie shoot and it's very artistic and the experience didn't require for me as a viewer to really know the detail of the background I just needed to see the color

[00:37:24] I don't need to see all the details it also a long time ago when before we had like all these massive render engines and be able to create like virtual backgrounds it also allowed

[00:37:34] them to save a ton of money on sets so it's like oh we get a throw up a door throw up paint with a splash of color call it good because there's no detail like cameras it's not capturing

[00:37:44] that detail you know and then as fast forward to now we just we've fallen in love with that style because it does look very different than a broadcast now the other side of the spectrum

[00:37:58] is broadcast where it's like everything's in focus think about two years ago before we were doing touchdown celebrations like Patrick Mahomes scores touchdown camera shot like on a steady cam circling around him and I can see Ken Rose deep completely in focus I see patching my

[00:38:19] homes in focus and I see the entire stance I can see everything they're doing well that's what broadcast is broadcast is like hey we want to see every detail of that background and so it's

[00:38:30] become a very very specific style the other thing with cinema is that it's very dramatic so cinema as you know when we watch movies we're writing rollercoaster of emotions which is great side note we've wrote we do a lot of different emotions and rollercoasters in sports but

[00:38:50] it's more productive how they're playing greater not especially if your dials can't always family me there's a lot of rollercoaster of emotions right right yeah but cinematic would not help that you know it's just the play of the players but what's great about cinema the cinema like

[00:39:11] the shallow depth of field there's ways that these video directors on these films can help create tension or actually release tension they can create emotion they can be like they can create suspicion with the way it's shot and how things are blurred out in the background stuff

[00:39:30] like that when one broadcast you're like no I'm telling a story where I want to see all of the story and I'm just capturing the emotion of what's happening I'm not crafting an emotion but there's

[00:39:42] a lot more than just the video camera and the lens lighting is like 90% of the experience you can take everything can be in focus and you can have great lighting that that also makes it feel like a cinema

[00:39:59] experience we can do that we have live event we have a lot we have a lot of things in our control or production system and lighting is the number one thing to really shape that emotion of that experience

[00:40:11] I think right lighting creates the the look and the feel and some of the moments behind the band in the worship team but here's my take on cinematic you know you explained you know the frame rate

[00:40:27] per second for video and the frame rate per second for cinema which ended up being 24 frames per second is what the cinema world used but a lot of people don't know how they got there how the

[00:40:41] cinema world got there was at 30 frames per second the reels were too big to distribute to the film the different outlets that would play the films so they started going backwards 29 28 27 25 24 when they got to 23 frames per second the human eye just couldn't stand it it was so jittery

[00:41:06] so static that it didn't work but at 24 frames per second most people accepted it and were fine with it and at 24 frames per second the reels were small enough to distribute to all the theaters to play the film

[00:41:20] so 24 frames per second didn't start off as this is cool this is what we want to do they always knew that 30 frames per second in higher was the better looking better more appealing to the eye look

[00:41:38] 24 frames per second ended up being what was financially responsible for them to distribute to the theaters now with that said we all got very used to what that look was it was not a lot of

[00:41:50] not a lot of pans not a lot of quick zooms it was a lot of these static kind of shots because too much of that which is why it doesn't look good when your pastors up there too much of the zooms

[00:42:01] pans and people walking and gives you that static key kind of jittery kind of look now that looks looks well especially if you're doing 24p looks really well during worship but can look exactly the

[00:42:16] same as broadcast if you don't light it and shade it in a way that gives you that immersive feel for broadcast you know shooting behind your audience members so you can see some heads and some hands

[00:42:29] that's a more cinematic look than just shooting tight shot on the worship leader and so things like that or what bring the cinematic look you don't necessarily have to have cinematic cameras or a

[00:42:41] cinematic frame rate to have a cinematic look do you agree with that oh 100% and that's why I talked about like hey try to figure out like what's your go like what are you really trying to accomplish

[00:42:56] through this and I think that's when you understand the history plus the like when you watch a movie understanding like oh they're crafting an emotion in this moment like they are like moving me in this

[00:43:08] moment well the same thing can happen in a broadcast experience but it's a completely different thing you know like when I watch the weather channel they're moving me but like it doesn't require

[00:43:18] shallow depth of field and it doesn't require dramatic lighting right so I think we get caught up in like some of the technical specs of like this is what it has to be to capture this experience

[00:43:31] and to make it look a certain way and feel a certain way but there's a lot of different tools and I think lighting is the best place to start to give yourself you know a cinematic experience yeah I agree with that

[00:43:49] plus some of the frame rate stuff can actually be added to your video as an effect right the Super Bowl did this a few years ago they wanted a 24 frames per second look they never changed off their 60 frames

[00:44:02] per second they just added an effect on top of what the video looked like in order to get the 24 frames per second kind of look and feel so again I tell people go out there and look at the top five movies

[00:44:18] in the world they were not shot at 24 frames per second look at some of the major music video live music videos that were out there a lot of them weren't shot at 24 frames they were

[00:44:30] shot at 60 frames per second and then they put an effect on top of it so it's really not about the frame rate it's more about the lighting the immersive feel but with that a lot of churches

[00:44:43] forego the ability to remotely shade and iris their cameras I go into churches and I'm like what do you mean by shading and iris thing I don't even know what that means yeah so talk a little bit

[00:44:54] about that I mean if you want a cinematic look even a broadcast standard production look how important is it to be able to shade and iris your cameras specifically remotely from onboard the camera how important

[00:45:09] very important because it's um you're dealing with an unpredictable environment so the lighting in this moment no matter how sophisticated you're lighting operator maybe or not you could have like a complete rookie volunteer running light so you could have a pro person running lights ultimately your camera

[00:45:30] will be pointed at something that is not lit the way um you as a director or you as the production want it to be lit at and so the camera can actually um make the shot we know this from our iPhones right

[00:45:48] or any of our phone cameras you can have the ability to make it brighter or darker and so in a certain moment we may want it to be brighter than what light is being given or we may want it to be

[00:46:00] darker and so it's really important to be able to do that it's um so you have the option you can do at the camera like physically the operator doing at the camera or you can be doing remotely

[00:46:11] I recommend remotely because I just want a camera operator to worry about what's in the frame like hey I want you to worry about like headroom and how we're like shooting the the framework of this

[00:46:25] camera I don't want to you to have to be worrying about like how a bright or dark the camera may look so it because of the way it gets kind of cumbersome with where those controls are

[00:46:38] and every camera's different yeah I think you you want to want it to match as well I went to a major church big church and uh one camera was really bright one camera was really dark

[00:46:50] like matching's important right yes it's a understood in my brain like yes uh your cameras from shot to shot should match and here's the reason why um it goes back to the purpose of what we're

[00:47:04] doing the purpose of what we're doing is telling a story and creating uh as few of distractions as possible if we go from a dark shot to a bright shot and back and forth it immediately kicks into our

[00:47:17] brains as the viewer to decode and try to understand what's happening and so I've just introduced a layer of thought about the camera shot that oh that's weird or like that's surprising why don't

[00:47:33] want people to be surprised by the camera shot won't people to be engaged with what's being said so for us to have different a different look from shot to shot shot or different brightness

[00:47:44] um goes against the whole purpose of what we're doing so that's why it needs to be a consistent your goal is to be it can be consistently dark or consistently bright or anywhere in between

[00:47:56] it just needs to be consistent so therefore you're not introducing that momentary where our brains go wait I wonder what's happening you know like why is that because they're immediately they're off

[00:48:09] from being engaged with what's happening on the other side of the lens yeah and if you have a shader now your volunteers don't have to worry about getting that cinematic look your volunteers

[00:48:19] can shoot it the way you ask them to shoot it and the shader can shade it so that it looks cinematic you've kind of crushed your blacks where you want them to be and he can see and call out

[00:48:29] oh the lighting's not quite right here and and make those fixes but you know as an audio guy I could never go into a service without a sound check or rehearsal yet I watch a lot of churches

[00:48:43] go into a service without their camera operators and their directors ever having a rehearsal and they kind of switch the first service you know with maybe five minutes of the rehearsal or whatever

[00:48:55] so talk a little bit about why rehearsals matter rehearsals matter for the sake of we want to minimize distractions so rehearsals matter because it's like we always do things on the fly like there

[00:49:13] let me let me back up and say it this way we want to reduce as many variables as possible and so when you're thinking about like hey we need you know waist up shot or a tight shot or a

[00:49:29] head to toe shot in that moment without a rehearsal you're like I don't know do we need a head to toe here do we need a tight shot here you're constantly kind of like guessing and trying to think ahead

[00:49:40] and therefore like in our brain space like we only have a certain capacity in every moment to make decisions so a rehearsal helps like oh that person is going to stand there I'm going to take

[00:49:53] camera to in this moment because camera to always is my head to toe shot and that's just type of shot I need so it's able to then when you get to the real thing you're like okay cool I know what I'm

[00:50:05] doing here I know what I'm doing here the reason why you want to reduce the amount of like variables and processing time during a real service is because we all know we're going to be introduced

[00:50:19] because it's a live event it's a live version of experience there's going to be variables that happen that we didn't prepare for that's going to happen and so rehearsal helps us remove as many

[00:50:30] as we can so we can be prepared for the things that we don't know that is going to happen that's that's kind of my opinion and say like the value of rehearsal is making sure you think and you can see

[00:50:43] like how things look you can see the lighting you can plan and prepare a little bit better you can get a little bit more organized and ultimately you can you know have a more engaging experience both

[00:50:57] the high-magnum broadcast experience can more engaging when you've you know seen it before it actually happens plus not everything that we plan goes the way we think it's going to go right and I think

[00:51:09] rehearsals help expose transitions in different things that we were planning on doing and as we go through the rehearsal we're like oh that didn't that didn't work out well a good story that I

[00:51:21] like to tell people is I went to I think it was a college football concert college football playoff concert a few years back and sting was was the headline act and so I got there early got in to see

[00:51:38] the crew and kind of everything that was going on I say hey what do you guys have going on this afternoon they said we have a rehearsal with sting and I'm thinking the band's gonna come out and saying and

[00:51:50] it's you know they're gonna do 10 minutes of rehearsal or sound check and then head on back they came out with sting and rehearsed for an hour and a half wow I mean these are songs he's

[00:52:05] been singing for what 40 years yeah and I said wait is this a new band and they're like now as bands would been within forever yet we go into a Sunday morning with different people

[00:52:18] different singers different band members and different texts and we think we can nail it on the first try right here's a pro who hit the stage and rehearsed for an hour and a half to make sure that

[00:52:28] he got it right and they made changes too they he was like oh that didn't hit right and you know audio guy had to make some adjustments video had to make some adjustments and so I like to use that

[00:52:40] story to say hey this is a guy's been doing the same songs for 34 30 40 years he comes out for an hour and a half and it's still making tweaks you know major we talked about the Super Bowl major football

[00:52:53] players still have a coach they still practice you know and which is their version of rehearsal and then yet on Sunday morning we come out and we think we can nail it without any rehearsals so rehearsals

[00:53:06] do matter they do line people up and help them avoid issues and speaking of that kids on camera okay I got some questions for you you know okay people have emailed me and this is the question they ask

[00:53:20] do churches need age limits when it comes to who runs the camera direct shades what what's your opinion on this you've been in around churches quite a bit you've helped them set up switches and

[00:53:32] different things of that nature what's your opinion on this my opinion is you create age limits when you're not really when you're not willing to have the real conversations which is kind of tough

[00:53:46] to hear but a ten-year-old kid to be honest on a stick camera with pentopars like can be just as good as me a 40-year-old camera to be honest and but we could also have a 12-year-old

[00:54:07] who's awful awful and we could have a 40-year-old who's awful and so I think what we do is that we we try to create these rules that we think are best for everybody involved when the reality is

[00:54:26] is just have a conversation and say hey you know what it's okay it's okay if it's not your thing like or less do better coaching or better training or like hey come in and we just always

[00:54:40] scared I think now it's easier said than done but I just know I lived it we get scared of having those conversations and we want to create some rules around so therefore it's almost like the

[00:54:51] rules are predicting like we'll never have a bad camera up okay here's the camera up so we need like hey you need to have graduated high school or you need to be past high school age you

[00:55:03] it's like oh why I don't really know other than I know like there's there are 18-year-olds are probably predictively more responsible and more capable true statement you know that's true but you could have some really great camera ups that you're as a 15-year-old or 13-year-old

[00:55:30] and you're also not giving them that experience so like I don't know yeah the older I get the more I'm like less rules more conversations which is always easier said than done I like to say if your

[00:55:44] rule is intended to limit young people from being involved and it's a bad rule yeah I think your rules need to be intended to protect young people make sure that you have you know the right

[00:55:56] policies and procedures in place to make sure that young people can be a part of the team you know example would be two adults that go with them wherever things of that nature you need to have

[00:56:07] some of your kids church policies right so those rules need to be in play but in terms of an age limit for cameras or shading a 10-year-old is he's going to be better than a 40-year-old

[00:56:20] I watched my son on editing and iPads and you know what he does with YouTube and things of that nature and the animations that he's building like these kids today are amazing and to exclude them

[00:56:33] from your ministry I think is a mistake I you know I worked for a big church here in the Dallas area and 50% of the video ministry we're under the age of 18 and honestly they did a much better job

[00:56:48] and broke things a lot less than the adults did yeah that's fair so I think having kids involved is something that you should have of course every DNA is different every church is different

[00:57:02] but like I said if your rule is designed to exclude I think that's that's an issue I think we want to invite everybody in but with that said there's a key component to this that allows kids to be a

[00:57:15] part of your ministry and that is that is training and I think you know obviously we need to do training we need to make sure they understand how to run the camera and all those different types of things

[00:57:26] but I want to ask this question a little bit different to you Jeremy let's talk about retraining how often should I retrain my directors, camera team, shader, video volunteers and the reason why I'm

[00:57:39] asking you this question is because technology changes a lot and how we do worship actually changes a lot you know the way worship was being done two years ago we just talked about cinematic

[00:57:53] you know six or seven years ago people weren't really doing that very often now they are yeah so how often should we retrain our directors and and is there a trigger that should be put

[00:58:04] in place to say oh we need to go and train some more interesting question I came into a season at one of the triggers I worked at where their videos their live video style was pretty dated

[00:58:19] and if you kind of compare contrast like what they were there then and then now you would see oh yes that is a data style you wouldn't necessarily as a like volunteer it's not what they do

[00:58:33] it is a craft and it is something that they love doing but it's not the thing that they study everyday so for me and you and you David it's probably like these live production and the style

[00:58:47] and the strategies and the technology of things we study every day you know that's like the things that we do we live it we we're breathing it we're like hey and we are seeing how the industry

[00:58:57] is moving forward in different styles and all that stuff so our volunteers are going to do what we tell them to do most of them most of them and so it's really important for us to continue

[00:59:12] to evaluate what we're doing and why we're doing it and retraining happens because hey guess what we figured out we probably need to update some of the way we're doing things or there's new

[00:59:25] technology involved or you know fill in the blank and retraining is really hard because it's like I just I had directors like hey I love the style that we're doing and I'm like yeah and I'm

[00:59:37] like how do I tell them it doesn't look good when they've been doing it for 15 years every Sunday that way and in their eyes it looks good they really like it so it's a challenge and it's really

[00:59:52] more of a leadership challenge than anything else there's no you can't systematize it or anything like that you have to help lead them through and so I my director I had three directors

[01:00:03] that were volunteers and they pushed back on me and because I was like hey we want to go more towards this style less towards this style and they were like why and they were really pushing back

[01:00:12] and I said okay this week send me youtube clips of a live event any live event in the last five that's looks the way you are doing video currently I got zero emails that week

[01:00:29] from them and the next Sunday they were like hey I was like go look at elevation go look at it hill song go look at whatever church that we're like kind of like inspiring or we love how they're

[01:00:42] doing things and find are they doing it which what how are they doing what's their style what is it what's their look so it was it's more of a leadership thing than anything else and then once

[01:00:54] that light clicks and like okay you're leading them it's kind of that thing like we have to take them on the journey we've been through this growth journey by studying this craft of live

[01:01:06] production they haven't been and so we just have to bring them along and be like hey come on like it's not going to be like tomorrow we're doing it it was a journey of like hey go see

[01:01:20] give me feedback if you find somebody like yeah I'm open to all kinds of things but you got to bring along the journey and I think the retraining is that there's a lot of people and volunteers

[01:01:32] they don't want to change to be honest we don't humans we don't want to change we don't like that requires more work it creates anxiety it makes this feel anxious it makes this feel inadequate and incompetent so like for change is hard so to be retrained in something

[01:01:53] it's a very difficult task it's a very important task but it's it's very much more leadership than it is like nuts and bolts yeah that makes sense it kind of leads me to the next thing and that is

[01:02:06] what your switch looks like what your video looks like you know that's to find in the second world by producers you know people who provide a vision for what the switch should look like

[01:02:18] I think that's important to a video team but if you're a church who can't hire a producer or you can't have a volunteer producer how do you go about establishing that vision for the

[01:02:29] look and feel of your broadcast yeah it's really difficult ultimately it does come down to like somewhere some way there's a someone there's a like buck stops here person there's a decision

[01:02:42] maker somewhere it could be a senior pastor you know it could be that it could be I mean I've worked for senior pastors who were like I don't care I was like hey what do you want and they're like

[01:02:55] I don't care you'll just do whatever you want like whatever you think's best right and then it's like okay well if that's the case leadership by committee is not a great scenario we've all learned that like

[01:03:08] yeah we could go a whole tangent of why leadership by committee is a very difficult thing but someone ultimately needs to be empowered and have a position and that's why we've created in the industry this producer role even the director producer role in film like there's a hierarchy

[01:03:26] but there needs ultimately be a decision maker and I think identifying that or at least hey pastor I know you don't care but we need somebody to be able to make decision or lead a team

[01:03:37] toward whatever we think might be the right way to go so Jeremy he pushes that back onto you and says okay well we can't really identify that person so I'm gonna make you that person yep you're going to be

[01:03:49] the one you what would be your steps to kind of establishing that look for your church like you mentioned earlier you know go look at some YouTube stuff and what some other people are doing

[01:03:59] but what are some things that you know it just gets pushed back onto the one person who does the switching every week what are some things they could do to help them you know get to a level of saying hey

[01:04:08] this is what our looks gonna be when it comes to video uh step one is understanding like uh before you can establish a look you gotta establish a purpose and so establish your purpose okay like

[01:04:22] hey our purpose is to have a great eye Mac or a great broadcast or both of them and then our purpose is on those things like you gotta establish what great broadcast means right you gotta

[01:04:37] define it so it's like great broadcasts like bringing people in room capturing people laughing that type of stuff and then that suddenly starts helping have this look and stuff be uh you get handles

[01:04:53] around it you're like okay cool that means a wide shot so it means this that means that like and then your look begins to be developed but um the purpose has to be decided I think you can

[01:05:04] there's a there's a natural if you're in that position you're listening to podcast me like already in that position that means you have an aptitude or a passionate desire to be part of this live event like behind the scenes and so you probably have a natural intuition

[01:05:19] that is helping direct your purpose the reason why I asked you that question is because my next question is how many cameras should you start out with and I don't know if you guys listening

[01:05:30] out there noticed Jeremy answered that as he was talking through the layout of the vision I think it's different from every church or for every church but answer that question how many

[01:05:44] cameras should you start out with and again you kind of helped with that just by saying hey when you lay out the producer side of it and when you lay out the vision it's gonna define how many cameras

[01:05:55] but some churches like just just hit us with how many we should start out with so what's you answered that I think you should start out with to be honest you should have three cameras

[01:06:06] that you can control either remotely or physically you know on a cameraizer so not a static shot right not just a static shot that never moves I want to be able to pan tilt zoom I think you need

[01:06:22] three of those because what that allows you to give get is a camera shot that I'm on a camera shot that I'm going to and another camera shot that I'm going to so that's a sequence of three

[01:06:35] different camera shots three different looks gives me time so if I'm like say camera one two three take camera one it's on air right on screens two gets a shot okay great two take two take three

[01:06:52] well it gives camera one the opportunity to have found something else before we get back around to camera one or then I could go from two to from three to two to one or one to three to two so

[01:07:06] you're always mixing it up but three cameras gives those operators opportunity to go find something else and then I always challenge my team hey we got three cameras we want to make it look like we have

[01:07:17] eight cameras which means different shots like okay we get tight on the drums and then you get super wide of the drums and then you're getting this so there's like all these in and then the in

[01:07:30] user never thinks about how many cameras or never sees that same camera shot over and over we're all we're continuing to give them a different flavor and a different perspective of what's happening so that's why three I think three two can work but I think ultimately three is

[01:07:48] probably the right number that's three cameras that can move now you can flavor in a bunch of other static cameras that don't move they're just like a camera on the drums that is just the

[01:08:00] same shot and can't be controlled but three moving is probably where I would start yeah I agree with you engagement is the name of the game and if you only have two cameras it's like take this camera

[01:08:12] take that camera and it's really hard to engage with two cameras if you have three cameras you're taking this camera one camera is moving you know you can get to the other camera

[01:08:22] other cameras moving and so I think three cameras is probably the right number that you should start off with now if you can only afford one camera you can still do eye-mag with one camera

[01:08:33] if you can only afford two cameras you could still do a broadcast switch I think it would be tough to do a broadcast switch which is one camera but with two you could still you could still do it

[01:08:43] but then it goes back to that producer thing that we talked about earlier and when a senior pastor says to you justify why you have five cameras down here if you've gone through the process of

[01:08:54] saying well I want to be able to create an engagement inside the room with a wide shot that shows everybody worshiping so that if you're at home it brings them in that's the language a senior

[01:09:06] pastor or whoever's making the purchase is typically it's a pastor who's not a tech that's the language they want to hear they just don't want to hear well I need five cameras so I can

[01:09:16] do more things and yeah that's how we look at it technically but a pastor wants to hear how is this going to engage people at home and how is it going to engage people in the room so when

[01:09:26] you say hey I need a wide shot so that I can see you know the room and I could see the colors and I could see what's going on and I could see the people worshiping and I need this other

[01:09:35] camera so that they can get up there and get really close to the guitar player and show as fingers things of that nature that's the language that a pastor is typically wanting to hear when you're

[01:09:45] justifying a budget it looks like you wanted to add to that a little bit well yeah yeah because it's like the the love language of pastors they they've spent always tell people like the craft like

[01:09:57] pastering some people would discriminate like pastering is a calling pastering is like a thing we do all those believers we pastor people whether we have like the ordained pastor thing but our pastors their real craft is like engaging communication like they create engagement they they work

[01:10:18] tirelessly on crafting a sermon that people are engaged with right so for us those are the words we should use when we're talking about the thing that we do I guess what pastor I want to

[01:10:32] engage people I want people to be engaged with what you're talking you've spent all this time dissecting scripture and now you're communicating it and we want to help you engage and this is

[01:10:44] what it would do because that's their thing you know it's done in a manipulative way it's just just a way of like that's that's a real true we're not manipulating we're just saying that's true

[01:10:54] we want to engage for us we wouldn't actually think about like oh with more toys we want to be able to do these different things but it's really like no the words that the pastor needs to

[01:11:03] hear is like engagement well we've talked a lot about cameras I get a trick question for you what switcher brand do you recommend oh haha I only recommend it and honestly it's not because I'll

[01:11:13] work for them I'd said this to a friend of mine I was catching up with last week he's like you love your job and I was like man I am just really really lucky to represent a product that I would use

[01:11:26] everyday like I would choose it and so that's it is a trick question but I would recommend it rather I I would recommend Ross video whether I work for Ross or not and I'm just very fortunate

[01:11:39] lucky that God gave me the opportunity to share about it every day so Jeremy tell us how do we how do people get in touch with you how do they get in touch with Ross how do they get in touch

[01:11:48] with you and take this to the next step yeah I always say you can you follow me on Instagram or follow our Ross worship account on Instagram so it's instagram dot com slash Ross worship

[01:12:01] or instagram dot com slash Jeremy bags I all ex that different episode explain why my handle Instagram handles Jeremy bags but yeah Jeremy bags or ultimately you can go to Ross video dot com

[01:12:15] there's a contact us form fill it out send it to us those are the ways that yeah we can take the next step just feel free to ping me and ask me any questions you can't leave us hanging man you got it

[01:12:26] you got to give me the 30 second why Jeremy bags well so for a long time my nickname high school and everything was bags so people just because backwell is my last name and so it was just bags hey

[01:12:38] bags so I was late adopted to the social media thing so I was late adopted I couldn't figure out like what what like you know as you go through trying to find a name that's like not a billion

[01:12:51] people have taken you know so it's like okay Jeremy bags is available where it was going to be Jeremy Bagwell 500 or whatever you know some random numbers so for me it was like okay Jeremy bags

[01:13:01] I didn't know that it was going to become the identity of my online platform that was 15 years ago and so now it's like crap I'm stuck you know so you need to know nobody cared right now he cares

[01:13:15] like okay just pick a username and I was like okay bags and Jeremy okay cool let's go Jeremy bags yes so that's that's the story now we know well to get in touch with Jeremy follow him

[01:13:28] at Instagram at Jeremy bags that's right or you can also go to an on Instagram you can get a Ross worship and follow them but I would recommend you follow both and if you need to get a whole of

[01:13:42] of them you can DM them that's the work right DM to have message that's good you can DM them there I'm 47 so I'm trying to still pick up on the lingo and all that kind of stuff so do you

[01:13:52] there either so again if you want to get in touch with Ross you can also go to Ross video.com they make video solutions that are affordable professional and very much supported plus they get it

[01:14:05] they fully understand the church market and what it takes to make Sunday happen so you can go to Ross video.com and look at all the cool products that they offer to the church community Jeremy

[01:14:17] thanks for coming on and sharing your vast knowledge with us yeah thanks for having me it's fun well that wraps things up for today's episode I can't wait to talk to you on the next

[01:14:25] tech arts podcast until then I'm David Lujiner signing off by wishing you a great day and praying God blesses every moment of your week see you soon you have been listening to the tech arts podcast presented by digital great commission ministries dgcm is a 501 c3 nonprofit that was

[01:14:43] started to help churches with all things technical whether you need help building a team finding the right gear or just a better understanding of the church tech world dgcm is here for you find out more about our free onsite visits reports and consulting by going to audiovideoletting.com

[01:15:02] digital great commission ministries will help you run your church service like a pro find out more at audiovideoletting.com