Audio Talk - Buford Jones Spiritual Journey | PART 4

[00:00:06] This is The Tech Arts Podcast where we talk about tech, leadership and all things that

[00:00:12] can search audio, video and lighting.

[00:00:17] So, to the Tech Arts Podcast and the Earthworks Audio Studios, my name is D.L. so glad

[00:00:22] to have you joining us today. I'm so excited about today's podcast. It's part 4 with

[00:00:28] you for Jones. Now, you may ask yourself, this is part 4. Why is David so excited?

[00:00:33] Well, here's a man who has really lived life. He's worked with some of the most popular

[00:00:40] artists in the world and performed a very high levels. Yet, there is a part of his life

[00:00:46] that not many people have heard about. It's his walk with Jesus Christ.

[00:00:51] Bu Ferd opens up about that today. Plus, we talk about the difference between line

[00:00:56] check, sound check and rehearsals. It's an exciting podcast and I don't want to keep you

[00:01:02] one more moment. So let's jump right into part 4 of our conversation with Buford Jones.

[00:01:08] Here it is. You know, we met years ago at a mega church here in Dallas, Texas. And I remember

[00:01:15] you coming through and being like, whoa, I've never seen anything like this before

[00:01:21] the church. You know, we ran things a little bit more professional and I think we kind

[00:01:26] of had a bar of excellence that was pretty high. But as I got to know you and we became friends,

[00:01:35] I realized that you're walk with the Lord was changing and you were coming closer and

[00:01:38] closer to the Lord. So tell me a little bit about your salvation experience. You know,

[00:01:52] I was in that church. So I was a church quiet often and you know, listen and follow, even had

[00:02:07] a vision at a younger age. But I always believe there was Jesus. I hadn't quite met him yet,

[00:02:16] and it's like, but I just always believed there was from my upbringing and the awareness of

[00:02:24] it and listening to very powerful sermons. And so then I drifted away. What I call drifted away

[00:02:32] once a left home and then started traveling in a very difficult for me. Well, I hardly even

[00:02:37] considered it's to be quite honest. But to go to church while you go in the road, it's very

[00:02:42] difficult. But then again, you know, as time went on, it was a marriage for me. It's

[00:02:52] what's interesting to me to see people that finally give themselves to the Lord. It's when

[00:02:59] they're in the deepest rut of their life. Why do you have to wait that well? You know, you

[00:03:05] have to be in severe trouble, severe pain and you call it a normal Lord. Well, okay, I understand

[00:03:13] that as well and certainly you should. But I found myself in my divorce and that was inevitable

[00:03:20] after 27 years and I was trying my best to wake it up. And I know I just couldn't handle it.

[00:03:28] So, you know, I had a group of friends and some people around me actually very few Christians

[00:03:38] around me. And this one, Lord Bags makes Bags guitars pickups. And I had an experience

[00:03:51] then going to see him or the night I was going to see him. And it was just a wonderful experience

[00:04:00] the way I gave myself in the way that it all happened in lighten and everything. And it was almost

[00:04:12] funny to us that when I got to his apartment, this had hit me. And I just felt wonderful. And when you

[00:04:19] opened the door and welcomed me, I went inside. But it had to go down a hallway to get inside.

[00:04:27] And the first thing that I said to them was totally different. Well, you know, I said,

[00:04:33] Y'all are Christians or not. And he said, yes, we are. And then I just recited

[00:04:41] Jesus Christ this Lord and went through all of it. And I, uh, it was just a wonderful time in my life.

[00:04:52] And that's all we talked about. We never talked about audio, which is what I went there for.

[00:04:57] He's going to put some little speakers, my or speakers, let's end them for in the studio that he

[00:05:02] okay, so this is his bags pickups. And you know, I changed my life and helped me tremendously

[00:05:09] obviously through the divorce and get my set up and how to deal with this and just look for

[00:05:17] guidance. Don't don't let the past and bad things keep pounding me. Think about what I must do now

[00:05:30] to move forward. So I started going to church then and I was still on the road. And so I went through

[00:05:37] in fact, Lord, to tell me that night he said, you know, I said, what the nomination should

[00:05:43] up pick or what kind of church I go to? And he said, the Lord will guide you there. He says,

[00:05:49] just go where you feel and you'll, he will guide you to the right spot. So I went to several churches

[00:05:59] and I felt good and I felt, you know, everything. And then I think it was about the fourth one that

[00:06:05] I went to in his time period over a month. And I went into one and then I met the pastor as I got

[00:06:12] into the parking lot, churches in that green. And I went into the parking lot and just so happened

[00:06:17] a part trying to extra the minister of the preacher and we walked in together and we were just talking

[00:06:24] chatting and I could tell I like this guy already. You know, just the way we were talking

[00:06:28] out of the parking lot. And then this platinum-haired woman was standing behind the door just to

[00:06:34] name Joel. She's just simply an angel, nothing else in my book. And she was there to greet people.

[00:06:44] And when I walked in and she's about 90, I think, and I reached out to Shaker hand and she said,

[00:06:53] no, I'm a hugger. So I just hugged her and I said, you reached God has taught me here. And that

[00:07:02] hung on me for I went there a total of six years before I moved out here about seven years.

[00:07:11] And I got involved with their audio and she was described. She got in me with good

[00:07:19] churches and I talked to her and she just couldn't understand why this divorce was going on.

[00:07:26] And I said, I can't understand it either but I, you know, I made an oath to that woman and I made

[00:07:31] an oath to God. And you know if things are perfect, nothing in the world is perfect, nothing. So

[00:07:37] people like can cope with the fact that it's not perfect. You could work things out. If you don't

[00:07:43] let it, it's not perfect and that make you mad and angry. And then you take it out on somebody. So

[00:07:50] she was wonderful in a found my home and I stayed there for many years. And you know, it brings

[00:07:58] up a topic too, which I'm sure you'd be talking about is mixing in houses of worship. And so that

[00:08:05] became a thing for me. Well, that church after really six or seven years changed the past of

[00:08:13] retired and that woman died I spoke at her funeral as a very difficult thing to me do. And then

[00:08:21] some other changes in the church and then there was the church right next door to my house,

[00:08:25] which was a press material in church. And I've been meeting people in the parking a lot because

[00:08:29] of the livingex took. And then I went on going here for a while and of course they needed sound help.

[00:08:39] And so I did that. I enjoyed the sermons that this particular pastor did and

[00:08:48] you know, it started my week. I think the week on my calendar starts on Monday but really the first

[00:08:54] day of my week is Sunday. And I think the church kind of helps set up my week that I've no

[00:09:01] I've started it in a good way. Now we follow that through but then yeah, I'm right behind the

[00:09:09] console again and it's very tough on especially somebody like myself, but I mean that I have

[00:09:17] experienced I know how to operate these things but then you get into a whole medusa of wiring

[00:09:24] that goes everywhere not sometimes in it you know, I'm looking at this and what I come up with more

[00:09:32] than not it's that so many volunteers have tried their best to rewire or redo the sound system

[00:09:43] and it just gets worse in time. You know unless they put it back the way it was, well then

[00:09:51] that didn't have digital recall but even then you still got a tweak it so it's been

[00:09:58] it's been pretty difficult enough found it pulling away from the message I went to that church

[00:10:04] for in the beginning. It's hard for me to somebody's hand in me takes to play somebody wants this

[00:10:11] to go to the field and they're phone to play and they're wanting this and that and I have to do this

[00:10:15] and that. I've gone to church there at the Nazarene and go there on a Sunday morning and there's

[00:10:25] nobody in the parking lot and I said what in the world is Sunday and I was going to say yes Sunday

[00:10:31] where is everybody? Come to find out they decided to meet in the campgrounds and I never heard

[00:10:37] say that because I'm so busy up until the service start or something going on and I just never

[00:10:44] heard the announcement. I should have read it and what have you but it's like I said it becomes a

[00:10:49] little bit overwhelming when I'm home as front but then when I got here I had a calling

[00:10:59] very clear to me and unsustain unmistakable and it's got told me that you take these blessings

[00:11:09] that I have given you all your life and you make sure, come get the picture back there. You make

[00:11:18] sure that my word is heard clearly in every house of worship you can and I knew what that mean

[00:11:26] I love that I love that. I love that. Say that one more time. He's the Lord spoke to you and said what?

[00:11:32] The Lord spoke to me and said use the career that I bless you with and use it to make sure

[00:11:39] that every church you can go into that my word is clearly heard and that to me means it's not necessarily

[00:11:47] me sitting there mixing I can't do that in every church but do just that. I started the thing

[00:11:53] once I moved here into a more word of mouth I did not set up a website I did not advertise and word

[00:12:01] of mouth it was about six different churches that I've done in this area within a hundred mile

[00:12:12] distance and that's what I do. I don't charge them. I feel that's a gift I was given so I'll give

[00:12:22] hours whatever time that we have with the crew and if there is a crew so mum really don't have a

[00:12:31] crew so mum just and then makes it very difficult to not be able to find a true standard here

[00:12:43] but in most cases it's been that the equipment if it was just carefully gone over and thought out

[00:12:50] a little bit better. I'm more just fine you don't have to invest another ten twenty thousand

[00:12:55] dollars and I think it's where it will have you in their case in your case. It'll never but when

[00:13:01] you they're gateway but the budget on these smaller churches whenever they put that money in

[00:13:11] and then the volunteers run it and it's not run to us optimum status. Well then the

[00:13:18] congregation is going okay we you know cleared the money for this equipment and still the church

[00:13:25] down the streets has better what's going on well you got to have a power to fly that

[00:13:30] bigger plane you know and and do they have time most of these volunteers are working through

[00:13:37] the day they've got a family to keep up it's really hard to find but I think for another problem

[00:13:45] that I would see a lot of the guys that would devote their time being that they're not being

[00:13:51] paid I heard it more times than I wanted to hear it that well my cousin or my sister

[00:14:00] mother and I'll hear her coming in the town next Sunday so I won't be at church or I think

[00:14:05] come there when's you know I had to help you because my friends are doing this or doing that

[00:14:13] okay all right so the difference in paying somebody to do what they do I mean at a

[00:14:25] house of worship that pays not a talent pays they pay the pastor

[00:14:35] the janitorial work the HVAC goes out do we get volunteers to go work on it I mean or do we

[00:14:47] you know a call of company and spend the money I think for some reason it is hard

[00:14:53] this may just be sound actually on the bottom of their budget list I said yeah but wonderful

[00:14:59] Chandler you know that can buy a lot of speakers right there I mean but that's okay it goes beautiful

[00:15:04] and you got these murals on the wall you got this beautiful carpet but it paves parking lot

[00:15:11] you've got this and that and that but why is your sound so menace fuel and the word of God

[00:15:20] if it is not clearly presented I can't make them understand it but if I make it clear they have

[00:15:28] a better chance of understanding it in other words shot at teach them some mic technique which

[00:15:34] is difficult to do but I'm managed to explain the difference what it sounds like whenever you're

[00:15:39] coping to microphone and how it mothles your sound or the starts and now you start shouting

[00:15:45] into it we're over loving the diaphragm in some cases depending on how loud they scream but

[00:15:52] they how loud they go in their message so I'm trying to work I think it takes working with a

[00:16:00] pastor a little bit I think it takes working with the choir a little bit and it takes work I think

[00:16:07] if somebody can pick up as would be a volunteer could pick up the way to look at this overall

[00:16:15] audio picture they might do that in their routine and become much better at what they do

[00:16:22] yeah I think what you're saying beef art is investment we're not saying to every church you

[00:16:27] the hire a staff member and they need to be full time and you know paid tons of money

[00:16:32] now if you can do that I think that's awesome but I think what we're saying is if you have

[00:16:37] volunteers that are running your sound invest in them invest in them with things like MXU or

[00:16:43] buford being able to come out and teach in train put some resources towards those volunteers

[00:16:50] towards your audio system you may have an HVAC system but you put money into that so that

[00:16:58] you don't have to call the repair guy once every few years when it breaks you know invest in them

[00:17:04] invest in your people and you'll have a better product and a better result don't necessarily just

[00:17:10] throw it back there and think anybody can run it and think anybody can do it invest in those people

[00:17:16] put some money towards it put some money and resources towards it and you'll see

[00:17:21] I'd to use your word you'll see it you know come out of the system more clearly

[00:17:25] it's a clearer response that will allow you to communicate better as a pastor

[00:17:31] well I think the fact of receiving a paycheck especially for me anybody that pays me money

[00:17:36] I feel like I have a stronger obligation that absolutely gets this job done unless it's an emergency

[00:17:42] some urgent thing that somebody needs help me other than that the fact of paying it rewarding

[00:17:48] somebody let's use that word you're a ward of me that would cash or whatever your means are

[00:17:53] that gives them an obligation to be there every Sunday you know to get their paycheck is like any

[00:18:00] other job you're going to be there all the time when you do that therefore you have

[00:18:06] sorbing more you will learn more and I love working with those groups as I've come and

[00:18:11] worked with you with some of your groups is very satisfying to me to be able to do that and

[00:18:16] see the interest and see these people work before and after I've left I mean I think they do an

[00:18:23] incredible job and I think these things you know can help us on an overall picture you know it's

[00:18:29] like golf somebody showing you a golf swing fine you show me a grip but it's not going to change

[00:18:34] my game that day necessarily it's probably pretty unlikely it's going to change that day but if we

[00:18:40] set up in a method here a sensible method I'm struggling with the church that I'm at mount

[00:18:47] to get them to stay on her sound checks and know the difference between a sound check and a

[00:18:59] near trying to scramble between that it's not a whole you can learn a lot more if I like to say

[00:19:08] in most artists I've never had to say it was just kind of pretty much common you know they get

[00:19:13] up there and get their monitors right and get their instruments tuned get their sound going

[00:19:18] now it's it's a huge time you know and I call the song so I tell them what song is the play

[00:19:24] and if it was something to do with you know some echo and a bridge well just play the bridge for me

[00:19:32] just play the bridge and let me make sure I got the timing on the second okay now okay stop now

[00:19:37] you'll play this and play that and with a group like pink forward they were like that 100% believe

[00:19:45] or not obviously expected it's almost funny story again when we started rehearsing day one

[00:19:51] at the band walked upon the stage and they all came up on the stage I could see them many

[00:19:58] had said hello to me first and that was very nice and then they all drove on stage and

[00:20:04] they're just walking around just walking around and talking and I'm sitting out there I'm eager

[00:20:08] ah I'm ready to go but I'm just waiting and I'm politely waiting they'll get other and play

[00:20:15] sometime or another and I think maybe 30 minutes went by or 20 minutes I don't know

[00:20:20] and the production manager come out to the cops all of and he says he says what's up or what

[00:20:28] he'll do and I said well I'm just waiting for them to get into playing he says they're waiting

[00:20:32] on you and what pink forward is waiting on me okay so I just got on the top of it see that

[00:20:40] already gone through band rehearsals they knew their songs when they got there they ever heard six weeks

[00:20:47] do nothing but that now it's six weeks of production but I never had that kind of luxury you know

[00:20:54] to that extent and so I just get on the top back and I'll say play learn and fly and I mean

[00:21:00] they can grab their instruments and sort of lay an into it and and that's where I learned to

[00:21:05] do particular segments you know we're when I needed it and the sound checks were pretty much

[00:21:12] for me to dial in to the room that they're playing too yeah and I think that's I think that's key

[00:21:19] for people to hear that a sound check is for the sound engineer to check and make sure everything's

[00:21:25] working not necessarily a line check which is making sure each line works a sound check is still

[00:21:31] hearing the band you know play you know I will go into a lot of churches and they'll the

[00:21:38] play song one and stop and they'll play song two and stop and they never do the transitions

[00:21:42] between the songs and I say hey part of your sound check you need to do the transitions

[00:21:48] between the songs so that the engineer can kind of see who's going to talk and what's coming

[00:21:53] and then a rehearsal like you said that's for the band in the worship team so the rehearsal needs to

[00:21:59] be different from the sound check but a lot of times we you know the difference between a line

[00:22:04] check a sound check and a rehearsal I think it's confused and you get seven and a half minutes

[00:22:09] to put together a sound check a line check and a rehearsal all before eight o'clock at the

[00:22:15] morning before you got to go in and do your church service so I think that's a really key statement

[00:22:20] that you made make sure you have a sound check for your tech yes it's for much like I can't

[00:22:27] I've done it without them but I certainly don't like that and then you're scrambling like

[00:22:31] crazy on the first couple songs and you know to pull it in the mix as you could have done it

[00:22:37] at sound check and then also if we add the luxury of doing two three songs that up to four

[00:22:44] maybe I will end with the song that they're going to begin the show with so whatever it is

[00:22:53] if it's Jackson Brown is going to start off with the running on empty that's the last song

[00:22:58] of the sound check and then I've got everything for that song dialed in now and they're all

[00:23:04] got guitars ready and everything now we go eat and come out and blast into that so I think a lot

[00:23:10] of people will say well but I have I have a digital console I don't need to do that and um

[00:23:17] I disagree with that I think what you've heard said is key like even when you're doing your sound check

[00:23:22] and you finish up having to the first song last so that you can get it all dialed in you've recalled

[00:23:31] the the preset that you may be using on the digital console I think that's a really good statement

[00:23:37] do the first song that you're going to sing the first worship song do that last in your sound check

[00:23:44] it'll give you a little bit better chances of it coming out of the shoot very nicely

[00:23:50] our heard shows build up as the song sometimes it could take two or three tunes I've been

[00:23:57] in a festival situations where I know sound check at all and a barely line check that you need

[00:24:03] the channels of work and sometimes myself I said there are two or three songs you know not been

[00:24:10] able before I could kind of pull the foundation the way I was familiar with it and I tried to pull

[00:24:17] out so a sound check or just vital and I think in communication it most houses are worshiped they've

[00:24:25] got to understand that there's got to be there's I see it too many times this wall between

[00:24:31] the sound staff and the musicians and you know they'll say y'all what you need or something like that

[00:24:39] it needs to be they just take control the sound and mix your takes control and tell whoever to play

[00:24:47] what I might want to hear the bass player hey I a little problem I'm still working with some

[00:24:52] EQ that would you mind playing the bass for me give me some finger and give me some thumb too

[00:24:58] the thumb the attack on it I want to know where that's at if I've exaggerated for what it's

[00:25:07] is well whether he does a lot of thumb work or not just do it and then that's showing me the

[00:25:13] extreme of the dynamics that he had played with as well as tonality changes between those two

[00:25:20] different techniques and all of them having now you can't get all these things every day but try

[00:25:26] try I mean we did pretty much with Ford but that's a different thing there's no opening

[00:25:32] access you know we had we had luxurious setup but even still where you have a major act and you

[00:25:42] have an opening act and same thing kind of appears here again that once an opening act is left

[00:25:49] and hopefully they've brought their own console which is only new probably almost 2000

[00:26:00] before you'd see the opening act might be bringing in their own console otherwise in an

[00:26:06] analog day it was nightmare you know we got to mark the console with a point pins here in their own

[00:26:13] tape and you know let the opening act do their thing and then put all those back of the tape

[00:26:19] I actually found you know I know you told a recall and that's great too but I've had told a

[00:26:25] call not recall too but you know you take your phone now and just do a video of it that's

[00:26:34] why actually what we did at Abbey Road was next to the album there on a call right console it

[00:26:39] did not have it had recall um fighters but that was all it only memorized the fighters so just

[00:26:48] the gazillion knobs and we were taking we had the phones in so we were taking a little 8 millimeter

[00:26:54] and just scanning the channels to archive them yeah to get it back set the way you wanted it

[00:27:03] now I want to say something here you know line check sound check rehearsal when we were talking

[00:27:07] about that if you're a church you're like man I could never convince my worship team

[00:27:12] to give me that sound check time one little hint that that I've implemented that really helps

[00:27:19] is if you plan out your time so let's say your service is at 930 you want to be done by 9 o'clock

[00:27:27] plan out your time save from 8 to 815 this is going to be my sound check time from 815 to 830

[00:27:33] this is going to be their rehearsal time or however you plan it out but if the sound check time is given

[00:27:39] to you as the engineer then the worship team will look at you and say what do you need

[00:27:46] because it's during your time and so I've found that that's really helped if you just show up

[00:27:53] and you expect to go through the rehearsal like you normally do they're going to control that

[00:27:57] dynamic because they want to get done in a certain time and get the things done that they want

[00:28:01] but if you lay out a time you know of hey for this 15 or 20 minutes this is what we're going to do

[00:28:08] and if you have a sound check somewhere in there before you get to the service and the sound check

[00:28:15] is stated as hey I need this time I'll call out what I need then the worship team or the worship

[00:28:22] leader will typically look at you and say hey mister engineer miss is engineer what do you need

[00:28:27] and so use that to implement hey this is this is what we're going to do line check this is what

[00:28:33] we're going to do our rehearsal is what we're going to do our sound check and have all of that

[00:28:36] laid out and that'll help you as an engineer at home so be sure man we've talked about a ton of

[00:28:45] stuff today we've gone a long time and I want to it's awesome because you've gotten a lot of

[00:28:51] insights out there this is definitely going to be a part one part two maybe even a part three

[00:28:56] but I want to thank you for coming on and sharing with us it's been a pleasure to hear all of your

[00:29:01] sites and knowledge thank you thank you it's been a pleasure to share it and especially to people

[00:29:07] that relate to it and want to better their own careers by sharing information you know

[00:29:14] no never has a take to do that when you're around a group of people and well how do you do this

[00:29:19] and how do you do that really really the you agree with it or not you'll find that there's

[00:29:25] it opens up your recipe book what I call many times you know and I'll tell them a little

[00:29:31] things to try out all things we talked about the day just put that in your recipe and then you might

[00:29:36] find one day that you can pull that out or watch your cooking on that given night so don't thank

[00:29:44] you've learned at all I'll see that attitude to many times and one last thing there is the attitude

[00:29:50] that many engineers when they do have help underneath them they will not give them enough responsibility

[00:29:58] and it's like I've heard some engineers say when I was one of the first to start traveling with

[00:30:05] the artist on a steady basis and it won't really my control I wouldn't do that I wouldn't let

[00:30:11] somebody else wear my control well okay okay it's a shame to know that nobody else in the world can

[00:30:18] do it but not guess so if you say that but you work with that other individual they're learning

[00:30:24] too when you give them responsibility and you give them a challenge and it's an allio in music

[00:30:30] oh no jump on it and they'll get it and you know I've given three jobs three tours of major

[00:30:38] names that I had to go because of scheduling with another artist or with something else

[00:30:44] and that artist asked me well be for who to get your place and I think all three occasions you know

[00:30:54] take my place but I said you know my little sister you didn't watch in the show every night

[00:31:00] didn't watch me move it every night and then whenever we listen to the show tapes he said

[00:31:04] man I saw you put on the echo tonight you didn't do that before but that's really cool when you do

[00:31:09] that all right you're listening you're listening and and I've recommended my assistant

[00:31:17] on three different major venues and they all three did a great job so that's where you say

[00:31:24] well go I have to work for two to three four years in the shop before I'll ever see the road

[00:31:29] that's not a service trip a lot of these things happen overnight it does it's not common but it

[00:31:36] happens don't take yourself out of the field when sometimes you just go out and some more speakers

[00:31:43] to what the uh... or carpenters and you're there I'll say who knows he's stumbled into

[00:31:48] back stage start talking to him and well hey like having you around and come join us

[00:31:55] he can happen as simple as that it can definitely happen as simple as that and if you want

[00:32:02] to tap into bufurt's knowledge and uh... have him come to your church or your facility

[00:32:08] and hear more insights from him you can email him at bufurt's jones at com cast dot net

[00:32:16] so that's bufurt's jones at com cast dot net or you can always email us an information

[00:32:24] at digital great commission dot org that's information at digital great commission dot org

[00:32:32] you for it again thank you for coming on and sharing your insights on the tech arts podcast

[00:32:37] very welcome and i might add there to its one of the few for some people put two houses

[00:32:42] one of them different but thank you david for thanking me i've always respected you and your

[00:32:48] work in been around you we see each other some

[00:32:51] conventions for time to time and i'm more than happy to help you i think i understand

[00:33:00] where you're coming from with all this and i respect and appreciate that

[00:33:04] and i've seen quite a bit of it so you can tell me and if anything i can do for you in this

[00:33:09] way enough and people respond and want to do it again i'll be happy to join you thank you for

[00:33:15] for asking me well that wraps things up for today's episode i can't wait to talk to you on the next

[00:33:20] tech arts podcast until then i'm david loy shner signing off by wishing you a great day and

[00:33:26] god blesses every moment of your week see you soon you have been listening to the tech arts podcast

[00:33:32] presented by digital great commission ministries dgcm is a five o one c three non profit

[00:33:39] that was started to help churches with all things technical whether you need help building a team

[00:33:44] finding the right here or just a better understanding of the church tech world dgcm is here for

[00:33:50] find out more about our free onsite visits reports and consulting by going to audiovideoletting.com

[00:33:58] digital great commission ministries will help you run your church service like a pro

[00:34:03] find out more at audiovideoletting.com