In this interview, Th3 Saga discusses his pioneering role in the Christian hip hop and battle rap scenes. Known for blending his faith with his music, Th3 Saga shares insights about his upbringing, his journey through fear and vulnerability, and the creation of his long-awaited album, 'As of Late.' The conversation touches on significant collaborations with legends like Kid Capri and AEW's Swerve Strickland and highlights Th3 Saga's deep connection with his faith and its influence on his life and career. Th3 Saga also talks about his battle rap origin, the impact of forming the Four Horsemen movement, and his commitment to mental health advocacy for young black men. The discussion is both a reflection on his past experiences and a hopeful look towards his future in music and ministry.
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[00:00:30] Listen, he is here! He is here! The Saga is in the house! He's a trailblazer in both the Christian hip-hop and battle rap world. He's got a career mark with groundbreaking moves. The Saga has not only pioneered the Christian battle rap movement, but also navigated the complexities of being a believer in two powerful subcultures. We gotta talk about that.
[00:00:52] We'll dive deep into a story from his faithful upbringing to creating a brand new album that, by the way, y'all, he's singing on. That's been 10 years in the making. An album born from overcoming fear and stepping boldly into his calling. Come on, y'all.
[00:01:07] Along the way, we'll talk about the impact on battle rap culture, his role in birthing the four horsemen movement, and his ability to juggle demands of CHH and battle rap while staying true to his faith. Oh, by the way, did I mention that he's teamed up with legends like Kit Capri, AEW superstar Swirl Strickland? Plus, we're gonna talk about the outsiders movement. Welcome to the show, The Saga!
[00:01:31] Hey, man. What's going on, man? I'm super excited to be here, man. Thank you, thank you, man.
[00:01:35] Bro, I'm so glad you took the trip down from New York. I don't take it for granted, y'all, on the road. So good to see you, bro.
[00:01:41] Awesome, awesome, bro.
[00:01:42] So let's start here. What's one thing you think you can share with people? This could be hard for you, man, because I've seen some of your battle raps, bro. I've seen you.
[00:01:49] So what's one thing you can share that most people, even those in your inner circle, don't know about you?
[00:02:02] That a lot of people don't know about? Yeah, that don't know about you.
[00:02:05] Man, um, I love animated movies. I don't know. It's just something.
[00:02:09] Is that right? I love it. Any particular series?
[00:02:12] Listen, um, all right, listen. I don't know if you're familiar with the movie Coco.
[00:02:16] Nah. It's a Disney movie. Listen, you put that on anytime, I'm gonna tear up like a little baby.
[00:02:23] Really?
[00:02:23] It's the equivalent of like, you know, like women like the notebook.
[00:02:27] Yeah.
[00:02:28] And they just, you put on Coco.
[00:02:30] That's it.
[00:02:30] I'm a baby.
[00:02:31] That's it.
[00:02:32] I'm tearing up at the end, man.
[00:02:33] It's got your attention, yeah.
[00:02:34] But like, you know, at the end of the day, when you watch a lot of my content, if you watch my battle rap stuff, you like, you see the aggressive, you see the assertive nature.
[00:02:41] But then like, you know, the simplicity of who I am as a person, man, sometimes I just enjoy animated movies.
[00:02:46] I enjoy the slight quiet quality.
[00:02:48] I get that.
[00:02:49] Yeah, so it's like something like deep, deep into it.
[00:02:51] It's like, you put on Coco, I'm gonna tear up.
[00:02:53] That's just me.
[00:02:55] I get that.
[00:02:56] What is the origin of your name?
[00:02:58] So, oh man.
[00:03:00] So a lot of you don't know this.
[00:03:03] Originally, the saga was supposed to be the name of a song that I was working on way back in the day.
[00:03:08] So for the youngins out there that don't know, it was a website called MySpace.
[00:03:15] You know what I'm saying?
[00:03:15] So MySpace, before we had Facebook, people were putting out music.
[00:03:21] Yeah, MySpace music.
[00:03:23] It was moving.
[00:03:23] Indeed.
[00:03:24] And at that time, I went by a different name.
[00:03:27] It was like something murder.
[00:03:29] This is when I was a secular.
[00:03:32] I just started to learn how to rap.
[00:03:34] And at the time, Kanye West and G-Unit came out.
[00:03:37] And I was trying to move in a more secular way.
[00:03:40] And at the time, I wanted to make a song and name it The Saga.
[00:03:45] So I looked it up.
[00:03:46] And The Saga means a long, heroic story of good deeds.
[00:03:51] And at the time, the song wasn't working out how I wanted it to.
[00:03:55] And I thought it would be cool to actually name myself.
[00:03:58] Interesting.
[00:03:59] And let my music, let my story be told through my art.
[00:04:02] Got it.
[00:04:02] You know, at the time.
[00:04:03] I wasn't a battle rap at the time.
[00:04:04] It was just strictly music.
[00:04:05] Gotcha.
[00:04:05] And when we got to the MySpace era of things, if you type in T-H-E-S-A-G-A, you're going
[00:04:12] to get 900 pages of anything associated with the saga of rocks or the saga of blah, blah,
[00:04:17] blah.
[00:04:19] And I ended up typing it in with a three just to stand out.
[00:04:23] And there was no searches.
[00:04:24] I was just like, oh, okay.
[00:04:25] There's nobody doing this.
[00:04:26] And then as I grew in my faith, as my journey went along, like the three kind of held a sort
[00:04:33] of significant difference and held value to me because one, I was born March 3rd.
[00:04:38] Yeah.
[00:04:39] So those are two threes.
[00:04:40] I believe in a trinity.
[00:04:42] And I'm the second of three children.
[00:04:45] So it's just like, I gave it kind of its own purpose, but like it started off as the idea
[00:04:50] for a song and then eventually bled into a name and it kind of stamped itself as like
[00:04:55] the saga.
[00:04:56] Yeah.
[00:04:57] What led you to the faith?
[00:05:01] Um, a youth service.
[00:05:03] I've been in church my whole life.
[00:05:04] Um, my, like my grandfather, both my, my mom's dad and my dad's dad were both pastors.
[00:05:10] Um, I grew up in my mom's church.
[00:05:13] Um, so a lot of people don't know I'm Spanish.
[00:05:15] I go Puerto Rican.
[00:05:16] Is that right?
[00:05:17] Mm-hmm.
[00:05:17] Gotcha.
[00:05:17] So the church I went to is, uh, it was called Manantial de Vida, which is fountain of life.
[00:05:24] Um, and I would go, you know, we lived upstairs from the church.
[00:05:27] So I was in church 28, I was 25, eight, you know what I'm saying?
[00:05:33] Right.
[00:05:33] I was every day.
[00:05:33] Yes, sir.
[00:05:34] And then some.
[00:05:35] Yes, sir.
[00:05:35] Um, and I've always had an idea of, of knowing the Lord.
[00:05:40] Like I knew, I knew who Christ was.
[00:05:42] Right.
[00:05:42] But I never really took my relationship, my walk with him serious until it was a youth service.
[00:05:48] Um, as I was about 18 and, uh, I'll never forget his, uh, a minister by the name of Edgar Cruz.
[00:05:55] He came to minister to us and in the middle of us at the altar call, we're crying out to God, we're praying.
[00:06:00] And he spoke directly to a situation I never told anybody.
[00:06:05] And, and in that moment he was telling me like, you've been moving with such ungratefulness.
[00:06:10] Like the Lord has taken you from so many things.
[00:06:13] Like you were supposed to be born a vegetable.
[00:06:15] There were plenty of times that a doctor told your mom to abort you.
[00:06:20] And you've been in situations in your life where I was at, you know, like I said, I was in the secular side at times.
[00:06:25] And, um, the Lord has saved me from so many things in my personal life where I should have been dead.
[00:06:31] And he was like, you've been moving with such ungratefulness towards what he's done for you.
[00:06:35] That's good.
[00:06:35] And it, and it shook me to my core.
[00:06:37] And I was like, man, you know, God, I, I surrender.
[00:06:41] Like, um, you can have it.
[00:06:44] And since then it's just been a transformation, you know, it's, it's incredible, man.
[00:06:49] That's dope.
[00:06:52] So battle rap.
[00:06:54] Yeah.
[00:06:54] I think for many, well, first of all, let's start here.
[00:06:57] CHH for many is a, is a oxymoron.
[00:07:00] Yeah.
[00:07:00] Yeah.
[00:07:01] No, it is right.
[00:07:02] It is.
[00:07:02] For me, I can't believe sometimes in 2024, I'm at different places.
[00:07:07] And then what do you do?
[00:07:08] And I tell him, Holy coach.
[00:07:09] And I talk about the mission.
[00:07:10] I say, you know, we do learning.
[00:07:11] They go, Oh great.
[00:07:12] Learning programs.
[00:07:13] We use yet.
[00:07:13] And we do Christian hip hop.
[00:07:16] And it gets quiet.
[00:07:17] It gets quiet.
[00:07:17] What?
[00:07:18] Huh?
[00:07:19] Oh, you mean Kirk Franklin's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:07:22] Some of them will have hurt Lecrae or something.
[00:07:24] Oh, he's okay.
[00:07:26] Got it.
[00:07:27] I said, but there's hundreds and people have a hard time believing it.
[00:07:31] So I can only imagine when you layer that with battle rap, how do people respond typically?
[00:07:38] Man, I've, um, I've, I've been in battle rap since 2011.
[00:07:45] That's when I first started.
[00:07:47] And the idea was even foreign to me when, when the Lord put it in my heart.
[00:07:51] So like you, when you tell somebody or try to put somebody onto the idea of what Christian battle rap looks like, they automatically, they look at battle rap for what it is and the negative standpoint of it.
[00:08:04] And then they say, how, how can a Christian move in this, in this space?
[00:08:10] And it sound, cause you still have to hold onto the identity of a Christian.
[00:08:14] It's like, what are you talking about?
[00:08:16] This doesn't make any sense.
[00:08:17] Right.
[00:08:17] And then you take the chance to, to watch brothers like myself or brothers like a ward, Loso, street hymns, Elijah straight, Prestavia, all these people.
[00:08:28] And, and you actually see like there's fruit, there's fruit in this.
[00:08:32] So it's like, but at first you're going to get a lot of, what is he talking about?
[00:08:38] What are you talking about?
[00:08:38] That doesn't make any sense to me.
[00:08:40] Yeah.
[00:08:40] I've been getting that for years.
[00:08:42] Yeah.
[00:08:42] I saw one the other day where contextually the whole theme was about complimenting each other in the battle rap.
[00:08:51] Yes.
[00:08:51] Yeah.
[00:08:51] Is that, is that a different name, sub name when they, when you do it that way or is no, no, no, no.
[00:08:56] I think the idea of it would be just a compliment battle, but it's still a battle.
[00:09:01] It was so dope, man.
[00:09:02] Yeah.
[00:09:02] We try to just take the theme of just like putting more positivity into what we do.
[00:09:08] Cause battle rap is, is more of a competitive spirit to it to where I want to show that I'm better than you.
[00:09:14] I can rap better than you.
[00:09:15] My flow is better than the third.
[00:09:17] Right.
[00:09:17] But then it's like, you know what, let me take the light off myself and shine it on your compliments.
[00:09:21] And then like what you've done in your career and your accolades and stuff.
[00:09:25] So like, I love the idea.
[00:09:27] Have you done one of those?
[00:09:28] I've done one.
[00:09:28] Yeah.
[00:09:28] Okay.
[00:09:29] Okay.
[00:09:29] So I was able to work with a young lady named my verse and we did a compliment battles.
[00:09:36] The first ever like intergender, like male, female battle rapper compliment situation.
[00:09:43] And it, it went like, it's, it's doing really well in regards to how people are receiving it.
[00:09:48] You know, it's the, the dialogue between man and woman and complimenting and it not being a part of like, cause with battle rap sometimes.
[00:09:57] And it's sad to say in regards to the female section of it, things get over sexualized.
[00:10:03] It's about this and the third, but it's, it's beautiful to have moments where you can shine a light on the person's career.
[00:10:09] Yes.
[00:10:09] You shine a light on their intellect.
[00:10:11] You shine a light on their work ethic and it not be about, Oh, you're only here because of how beautiful you look or blah, blah, blah.
[00:10:17] So I think it helped to shine a light in a different way to show people, Hey, it's more than just about what you have to offer physically.
[00:10:25] Yeah.
[00:10:26] I think it's more about just shining a light on how beautiful a person you are.
[00:10:29] Right.
[00:10:29] So that was the goal.
[00:10:30] That's nice.
[00:10:31] Now I didn't prep you for this, but talk to me.
[00:10:33] Give us, give us a few balls of that.
[00:10:36] It's been a while.
[00:10:37] Yeah, man.
[00:10:37] I said something like, um, either you're going to get these rap flowers or you're going to get these wrapped flowers.
[00:10:45] And I gave her like a bouquet.
[00:10:46] Either way, I more than rose the standard to approach this golden canvas.
[00:10:52] Jehovah granted me to quote these hands with enough power to turn my verse to a golden stanzas, but still take a level of chance.
[00:11:01] And it's like holding hands with a focused man who enjoys the slowest dances.
[00:11:05] So it is still a level of enchantment.
[00:11:06] That is, it's, it's like a little, it's yeah, it's on the spot guys, you know, but it's, but, but it's just like just catering things in a different way.
[00:11:15] Cause naturally in battle rap, it's more of an, uh, I'm used to seeing you, you know, super aggressive.
[00:11:23] Yeah.
[00:11:23] But it's like, you know, I, why, why in a compliment battle, you don't want to approach with such aggressiveness.
[00:11:28] You want to just take the time and actually speak to, uh, so I think I spoke to the situation well and people gravitate into it very well.
[00:11:35] I think, I think, um, man, what I didn't have as an, well, I should have, but I didn't have as deep of appreciation for the spectrum of your creativity.
[00:11:47] Right.
[00:11:47] Um, and I think your album, I was, man, I was pleasantly surprised.
[00:11:51] Thank you.
[00:11:52] Pleasantly.
[00:11:53] Like, you know how you turn on the album and you think, you know what you're going to hear?
[00:11:56] Yeah.
[00:11:56] Right.
[00:11:57] It's like, yeah, for sure.
[00:11:58] He's going to kill it.
[00:11:59] Right.
[00:11:59] But literally he's going to kill it when the album comes on.
[00:12:03] I'm like, Oh, hold up.
[00:12:05] I'm checking my, my Spotify.
[00:12:06] Am I, am I dialed into it?
[00:12:08] And I heard, you know, 4am Uber before.
[00:12:11] So I knew you had some of it there, but I wasn't expecting this much, um, variety.
[00:12:17] Wow.
[00:12:18] Thank you.
[00:12:18] The way you were rhyming, the, um, the sonics you chose, the singing.
[00:12:24] So one of the things you said is, uh, in, in some of your bio was this took 10 years.
[00:12:29] Yeah.
[00:12:30] Why?
[00:12:30] Why 10 years, bro?
[00:12:32] Um, I, for a long time.
[00:12:35] I'm, I've had, I've, I've hid behind the idea of being a perfectionist.
[00:12:39] Right.
[00:12:40] And I was always big on, no, it has to be done a certain way.
[00:12:44] Yeah.
[00:12:44] It has to be done this way or it's not ready.
[00:12:46] It's not right.
[00:12:47] It's this.
[00:12:47] And, um, I've literally, I have in my email, the original track list of the album back in
[00:12:55] like 2015.
[00:12:56] Hmm.
[00:12:57] And at the time, I don't think things were lined up the right way.
[00:13:02] And I know I, I, I, let me focus on getting the battle rap up so that way I can bring
[00:13:06] more attention to the music.
[00:13:07] When you listen back to the music, all this sounds dated.
[00:13:10] Let me tweak it.
[00:13:11] And then let me work on more music.
[00:13:13] And it becomes a thing where like, I'm putting out songs every now and again.
[00:13:17] Yeah.
[00:13:17] But then in regards to a whole body of work, I've never, I've never done it.
[00:13:21] And I'll never forget.
[00:13:22] I got into it.
[00:13:23] I was having a conversation with my wife and she kind of broke it down to me and battle
[00:13:28] rap terms.
[00:13:28] When somebody gives you like a real talk, we call it a third round.
[00:13:31] Like, so she gave me a third round.
[00:13:34] She gave me, she was like, listen, like you hide behind the idea of being a perfectionist,
[00:13:38] but what it really is, is fear.
[00:13:40] You're afraid.
[00:13:42] And you shouldn't be because you're so called for this.
[00:13:45] You're so amazing.
[00:13:46] God has gifted you so much.
[00:13:47] And she was right.
[00:13:48] I was afraid.
[00:13:49] I was afraid of putting out an album because I didn't know what, what success would look
[00:13:54] like for it.
[00:13:55] Like, what if I put out a project and I, I pour my heart and give so much vulnerability
[00:14:00] and nobody accepts it.
[00:14:01] That's interesting.
[00:14:02] You know?
[00:14:03] And, and, and, and that, that paralyzed me for years in, in regards to not putting out any
[00:14:09] projects.
[00:14:09] I would like, I would test the waters with a single, have a song.
[00:14:13] Right.
[00:14:13] Oh, you guys like it.
[00:14:14] Okay.
[00:14:14] I'll put out another song later.
[00:14:15] Like, where's the album?
[00:14:16] It's like, um, it's coming.
[00:14:18] Don't worry about it.
[00:14:19] You know?
[00:14:20] And she kind of just gave me that third round.
[00:14:22] She's like, listen, you're, you're afraid.
[00:14:24] That's good.
[00:14:24] But you shouldn't be.
[00:14:26] So we need deadlines.
[00:14:27] Yeah.
[00:14:28] We need submission dates.
[00:14:29] Oh, you know what?
[00:14:30] Invite this person over.
[00:14:32] I asked this person what their thoughts on this mix.
[00:14:34] And like, she really, she's the driving force through me even believing in myself enough
[00:14:40] to put out the album.
[00:14:42] Man, that's give it up.
[00:14:43] Shouts to my amazing wife.
[00:14:44] My wife Renee.
[00:14:45] You know?
[00:14:46] I mean, who came with and is at term.
[00:14:49] Come on.
[00:14:50] We could literally have a new Holy Culture Radio moment of birth right here.
[00:14:54] I'm not advocating for that, by the way.
[00:14:56] We can have a Holy Culture baby in here right now.
[00:14:56] I'm not advocating for that.
[00:14:57] I'm just saying it's possible.
[00:14:59] No, man.
[00:15:00] It's incredible, man.
[00:15:01] Like, she's been such, um, she's so strong.
[00:15:05] Yeah.
[00:15:06] You know, like, aside from her, because she's so, she's so selfless.
[00:15:10] You know, aside from her being her own artist and her own, doing her own things.
[00:15:15] Right.
[00:15:15] She's made it her business to make sure that I'm where God needs me to be and that I move
[00:15:20] when God tells me to move.
[00:15:22] Yeah.
[00:15:22] And she's like encouraging me in every step possible to just be authentically myself
[00:15:28] and trusting that God's going to work everything out.
[00:15:31] That's good.
[00:15:31] That's so good.
[00:15:32] I mean, there's so much in what you said, man.
[00:15:33] That phrase speaks volume.
[00:15:35] Hid behind the idea of.
[00:15:38] That, you can stop right there and fill in so many different blanks.
[00:15:41] Right?
[00:15:42] But man, the transparency of that and having that acknowledgement of that.
[00:15:47] You know, that fear piece, do you think some of that was, um, some of that's conditioning
[00:15:53] from battle rap?
[00:15:54] Because when you leave a battle rap, you know whether you won or not.
[00:15:57] Yeah.
[00:15:58] That, like, it's like that.
[00:15:59] Yeah.
[00:16:00] Yeah.
[00:16:00] I think a lot of it comes from that.
[00:16:02] Um, other thing aside from that, I think it, like, if I'm thinking more into who I am,
[00:16:08] I think it bleeds out beyond battle rap.
[00:16:10] I think this goes back to, like, my childhood.
[00:16:13] And this goes to people pleasing and wanting to be liked by everybody.
[00:16:17] It was so much so that, let's say I'm in a room of 100 people and 95 people like me in
[00:16:25] the room.
[00:16:25] Yep.
[00:16:26] If five people don't like me, I'm pushing past the 95 to say, why don't y'all like me?
[00:16:31] Like, what did I do wrong?
[00:16:32] Like, you know what I'm saying?
[00:16:33] We're cousins.
[00:16:34] We are cousins, man.
[00:16:36] Everybody's in the room.
[00:16:37] Yo, we love it.
[00:16:38] The music is incredible.
[00:16:39] Yo, hold on one second.
[00:16:40] Why don't y'all like me?
[00:16:41] Like, did I do anything to y'all?
[00:16:42] What happened?
[00:16:42] What did I do?
[00:16:43] What did I do wrong?
[00:16:44] Like, are you good?
[00:16:45] Right.
[00:16:45] Did I say something wrong?
[00:16:47] Do I not?
[00:16:48] Do you become fixated on it?
[00:16:50] For a while, I was.
[00:16:51] Okay.
[00:16:52] For a while, I was.
[00:16:53] Now, and it's crazy because, you know, 33 years of life and now I'm kind of realizing
[00:16:58] that, like, man, like, it's okay.
[00:17:00] Yeah.
[00:17:01] It's okay.
[00:17:01] People don't have to like you.
[00:17:02] People don't have to accept you.
[00:17:04] You know what I mean?
[00:17:05] As long as you know what you're doing is led by God, man, you just got to roll with the
[00:17:10] punches.
[00:17:10] You know?
[00:17:11] And in battle rap, imagine in battle rap, right?
[00:17:14] When I first came into battle rap, you know, I'm watching from a fan standpoint at one
[00:17:19] point and now I'm putting myself to the masses, to a new demographic, a new subculture.
[00:17:26] Right.
[00:17:26] And thousands upon thousands of comments bashing you.
[00:17:32] Yes.
[00:17:33] And you're already dealing with this, like, wanting to be accepted complex and wanting
[00:17:37] to be like, everybody love me.
[00:17:40] And when thousands and thousands of people hate you, you start to, well, maybe you're
[00:17:44] maybe it's me.
[00:17:44] Like, maybe do I need to change?
[00:17:46] Do I need to focus on something?
[00:17:47] Do I need to tweak things?
[00:17:48] And it's like, nah, man, you just got to trust God.
[00:17:50] Yeah.
[00:17:51] It's going to be like, they hated him.
[00:17:53] Yeah.
[00:17:53] Exactly.
[00:17:54] So you're no different.
[00:17:55] Listen, when we're all having that conversation together, it makes so much sense.
[00:17:58] Yeah.
[00:17:58] When we're all with each other and we're talking about what Christ went through.
[00:18:03] Yeah.
[00:18:03] What he has promised us, the favor we have in different spaces, even when we don't feel
[00:18:09] it, it makes so much sense.
[00:18:11] But then when you get isolated in situations, right?
[00:18:14] Sometimes it's challenging to have the recall.
[00:18:16] Yeah.
[00:18:16] In the moment.
[00:18:17] Right.
[00:18:17] And so.
[00:18:18] That's true.
[00:18:18] It's, you know, that can be a challenge.
[00:18:20] So praise God.
[00:18:21] So was this realization for you all of an outcome of that third round?
[00:18:25] Yeah.
[00:18:26] That was a good push.
[00:18:27] Yeah.
[00:18:27] A good push.
[00:18:28] Like, she literally, like, she's been with me every step of the way of, like, listening
[00:18:34] to every mix.
[00:18:35] As annoying as it is, because I have 17 mixes of the same song.
[00:18:40] And, you know, as an artist, you're just like, I don't like the way I said the.
[00:18:43] Can I tweak that?
[00:18:45] The way I said the into, nah, can we?
[00:18:48] And it'd be like, babe, it was the same the first time.
[00:18:51] Right.
[00:18:52] But it's like, nah, but it's, like, it's good.
[00:18:54] This one had a reflection.
[00:18:55] It was like, duh.
[00:18:56] Uh.
[00:18:57] Versus the.
[00:18:57] You know, it's like.
[00:18:59] It's hot.
[00:19:00] But it's like, yeah, she's like, it's good.
[00:19:01] Nah, this is good.
[00:19:02] And if she'll, if she don't like something, she's opened things up to me, like, oh, well,
[00:19:08] why did you approach it like this?
[00:19:09] It wouldn't be I don't like it.
[00:19:10] It'd be like, why did you approach it like this?
[00:19:11] What do you mean by that?
[00:19:13] Okay.
[00:19:13] That's good.
[00:19:13] And that would open me up to say, maybe I'm not getting my point across clear enough.
[00:19:17] Yeah.
[00:19:17] And, you know, every step of the way, submitting songs, mixing songs.
[00:19:21] And it became a thing to her, like, when I finally worked out the track list, it
[00:19:25] was like, now it's on me because I'm not, oh, I gotta wait for the mix.
[00:19:29] Right.
[00:19:29] I gotta wait for things to be right.
[00:19:30] Now it's like, it's in front of me.
[00:19:32] It's up to me to put it out to the world.
[00:19:34] And that was like a really, a really big moment.
[00:19:36] That's good.
[00:19:36] I mean, you know, to, to overcome the, the fear, that's one element, but then it's also,
[00:19:42] I mean, just be honest.
[00:19:43] Right.
[00:19:43] Um, it's not like you put out one song or, or four song mini EP or six song full EP.
[00:19:50] You went whole hog brothers.
[00:19:53] Like you went whole hog intro outro.
[00:19:57] Like this, this is like an album from, from when I grew up, you know what I mean?
[00:20:00] Cause albums nowadays, man, it could be mad short.
[00:20:03] I mean, yes.
[00:20:04] Uh, mad short and, and, uh, and this is not a shot by the way, but, but the thoughtfulness
[00:20:09] of, uh, intro outro and kind of narrating a body of music sometimes it's not done.
[00:20:16] Sometimes it's just, it just feels like a loose federation of singles that got done.
[00:20:19] And then we, you know, we put, we put them out.
[00:20:21] This is, let me count the 18 tracks.
[00:20:23] Oh yeah.
[00:20:25] So, so it's like, well, I'm going to do this after 10 years.
[00:20:28] Like I'm really going to do this.
[00:20:30] Yeah.
[00:20:30] Um, it, it really got to a point where like, you know, it, the ball was always in my court,
[00:20:35] but I just felt like now more than ever in this season, it was like, okay, you know,
[00:20:40] with everything that I've kind of just put on the back burner for so long.
[00:20:44] Yeah.
[00:20:44] If I'm going to give myself the opportunity to put out music, now is the time to,
[00:20:49] do it.
[00:20:50] Yeah.
[00:20:50] You know, I don't want to have to worry about doing it when my child is here and I'm like,
[00:20:55] I want to be able to do it before.
[00:20:57] So if anything, I'm able to move more in confidence, knowing that if my child ever asked me about
[00:21:02] these situations, I can let her know in confidence.
[00:21:04] I was able to do this, that, that, that, that.
[00:21:06] I don't want to ever tuck my tail and be like, man, I could have did this.
[00:21:10] Yes.
[00:21:10] Man, if I really would have just took that chance, I want to show her through my actions.
[00:21:14] Like, listen, like, even if you're doing it afraid, do it.
[00:21:18] Trust in the Lord is going to look different.
[00:21:21] Things are going to look scary.
[00:21:22] But when you're, when you have faith in God, things are not going to look and you can't
[00:21:27] see things in the ordinary.
[00:21:28] Indeed.
[00:21:29] You know, so it's like, I had to trust in God in that, you know, and, and every step
[00:21:34] of the way, I'm, I'm submitting the songs.
[00:21:36] I'm calling her.
[00:21:36] Yeah.
[00:21:37] She, she, she's my support system.
[00:21:38] And, and, um, yeah.
[00:21:40] And we got to a point where like, we, we dropped it a week earlier on even and even in that,
[00:21:47] like the end of, cause you know, even as a platform for more independent artists.
[00:21:50] Yes.
[00:21:51] So it's like direct to consumer.
[00:21:52] Cause you know, with, with streaming on Spotify and whatnot, we may not see those numbers
[00:21:57] as fast as we want to, like people were able to give directly.
[00:22:01] And even in that, that confirmed so much more for me.
[00:22:05] And it just, it, it broke me down.
[00:22:07] Good leading into the, yeah, it was like, people were like, yo, people have been waiting
[00:22:10] for this album for so long.
[00:22:11] That's good.
[00:22:12] People were throwing hundreds of dollars just at that.
[00:22:15] And I'm just like, you set your price.
[00:22:16] You put a, no, it's any price.
[00:22:17] They said, I mean, that's what I mean.
[00:22:18] As a buyer, you said, like the lowest you could pay is a dollar.
[00:22:21] Got it.
[00:22:21] And people were throwing hundreds of dollars in there.
[00:22:24] It's like, man, listen, this, this project blessed me.
[00:22:26] I'm so proud of you for, for actually following through with this.
[00:22:30] And it was just like such a, a beautiful moment for me.
[00:22:34] Cause it was like, okay, I'm, I was afraid of failure.
[00:22:38] I was afraid of losing.
[00:22:40] Yes.
[00:22:40] And in return of just trusting God, I saw love and I saw people appreciating these vulnerable
[00:22:47] moments that I put in my music.
[00:22:48] That's good, man.
[00:22:49] Yeah.
[00:22:50] What's the, are there any particular cuts that are your quote unquote favorites?
[00:22:53] Words.
[00:22:55] Um, it's, you know what it is?
[00:22:57] It's like, it depends on the mood I'm in.
[00:22:59] Yeah.
[00:23:00] Like if, if I'm getting my, if I just got my haircut, if I just got the fresh lineup, the
[00:23:04] beard is looking good, the, you know what I'm saying?
[00:23:07] Right.
[00:23:07] I play like the live Oh three.
[00:23:10] Uh huh.
[00:23:10] Live Oh three is a good word for me or, or play about me.
[00:23:14] Play about me is tight.
[00:23:15] Uh, but for me, I'm a mushy guy.
[00:23:18] I think stuff where I could just like speak to who I was as a child or speak towards like
[00:23:25] depression or speak towards like things I suffered, uh, suffer with or dealt with rather.
[00:23:30] Um, I love a good record.
[00:23:32] Like be me.
[00:23:33] I love be me.
[00:23:34] I love don't stay there.
[00:23:35] Yeah.
[00:23:36] Um, be me is nice too.
[00:23:37] Thank you, man.
[00:23:38] I mean, so many of them are nice top dog.
[00:23:39] I want to just playing that one back a couple of times.
[00:23:43] Don't, don't stay there.
[00:23:44] I mean, there's just a lot on this man to just, uh, just let play.
[00:23:48] So, so family, let me say this.
[00:23:50] Well, a couple of things.
[00:23:50] One, let me address the YouTube audience.
[00:23:51] If you're on YouTube and you got a comment, please feel free.
[00:23:54] If you got a question for our bro, please feel free.
[00:23:56] Drop it in there.
[00:23:57] I'll do my best to, uh, to raise the question here, but please listen to the album all the
[00:24:01] way through.
[00:24:02] Please listen to the album all the way from top to bottom.
[00:24:03] Don't shuffle it either.
[00:24:04] Don't shuffle.
[00:24:05] Don't shuffle.
[00:24:06] Don't, don't you shuffle.
[00:24:08] Don't shuffle this album.
[00:24:11] Spotify's created some habits, man.
[00:24:13] Oh, we like, I don't know about you.
[00:24:14] Like on Friday, you go to release radar, hit shuffle, start your workout.
[00:24:20] You're just used to that.
[00:24:22] Right.
[00:24:22] And so we've got these habits, you know, don't you listen to me.
[00:24:26] Don't you shuffle this album.
[00:24:28] You have to listen from everything makes sense from top to bottom, you know?
[00:24:31] And I think we lose so much of that in our art nowadays.
[00:24:35] Yes.
[00:24:35] We lose continuity.
[00:24:37] We lose like there being a continuous theme.
[00:24:40] Like you said, it was earlier.
[00:24:41] It's like, it just seems like a bunch of like, it's a mashup of singles.
[00:24:44] Yeah.
[00:24:45] And it's like, man, where's the storytelling?
[00:24:47] Yes.
[00:24:47] Where do you take people through this?
[00:24:49] There's certain artists in the culture that take you through an experience where you listen
[00:24:53] from top to bottom.
[00:24:54] Yes.
[00:24:55] And it's like, that felt like a movie.
[00:24:57] Yeah.
[00:24:58] You don't watch a movie from the middle, then jump to the beginning, and then get to where
[00:25:01] the plot thickens, and then you get to the end, and then you go back to, no, you have
[00:25:05] to watch it, let it happen in the natural flow.
[00:25:09] Let that man narrate.
[00:25:10] Come on.
[00:25:11] Let that man narrate.
[00:25:12] Let him cook.
[00:25:13] Let him cook.
[00:25:14] Let him narrate.
[00:25:15] So how would you describe, again, back to the oddness some may see on battle rap when
[00:25:22] they ask you, okay, what's your role in this whole battle rap thing?
[00:25:27] Man, I'll never forget, right?
[00:25:29] So I started battle rapping in college 2011.
[00:25:35] 2011.
[00:25:36] Jeez, that was a while ago.
[00:25:39] And the thing was, my boy Angel, Angel Vega, me and him, we met in college.
[00:25:44] We both had a love for battle rap, and he was starting up a battle league at that time.
[00:25:51] And he was like, yo, it'll be dope to have battles in the school.
[00:25:54] And we were helping people sign up and kind of just doing the whole card.
[00:25:58] And he was like, yo, Saga, why don't you battle rap?
[00:26:01] Why don't you try it out?
[00:26:02] And the thing about it was, I was very fearful.
[00:26:06] Like, yo, what is it?
[00:26:07] I don't know what it looks like for a Christian to battle rap.
[00:26:09] I'm like, this is weird.
[00:26:11] I don't want to go in there and sound cookie cutter.
[00:26:14] I don't want to sound in there like I'm super judgy.
[00:26:16] I don't want to shove Jesus down anybody's throat.
[00:26:18] I don't want to turn people off.
[00:26:20] Like, there has to be a certain approach to it I'd never seen before.
[00:26:24] And, you know, Angel was like, just pray on it.
[00:26:26] And in that time of prayer, the Lord spoke very clearly to me at that time.
[00:26:33] And it's something I held on to my entire career.
[00:26:36] And one thing that he, well, two things he told me was, one, just trust me.
[00:26:41] It's constantly hitting me over the head.
[00:26:43] Just trust me.
[00:26:44] But God, I want to just trust me.
[00:26:46] But I just wanted that.
[00:26:47] Like, can I just work on music?
[00:26:48] Can I just help?
[00:26:49] No, just trust me.
[00:26:50] The second thing was, my responsibility in battle rap is to kick a door open and step aside.
[00:27:00] Like, it wasn't about coming in, being everybody's top five, being revered as one of the greatest ever.
[00:27:07] It was just like, kick a door and step.
[00:27:10] I didn't understand what that meant at the time.
[00:27:12] Kick a door, step aside.
[00:27:14] And within the year that I trusted God and I allowed him to just move in that, the culture of battle rap with what I was doing, within a year or so came Street Hymns.
[00:27:25] Gotcha.
[00:27:26] And then a couple months after came Loso and came A-Ward.
[00:27:29] So it was like, and the timing couldn't have been better because us four, not only were we the first four Christians, but like everybody moved in such excellence.
[00:27:40] It wasn't like, oh, he's good, but he needs work.
[00:27:43] It was like, Street Hymns is one of, to this day, one of the greatest pens you will ever hear.
[00:27:48] And not even just in battle rap.
[00:27:50] He makes incredible music.
[00:27:51] He has an album out right now.
[00:27:53] He's one of the most incredible pens.
[00:27:55] Yeah.
[00:27:55] Loso, the charisma, the performance.
[00:27:58] He's a star.
[00:27:59] Yes, man.
[00:28:00] A-Ward.
[00:28:00] Yeah.
[00:28:01] He's my favorite for a lot of reasons.
[00:28:03] He's just like the, he's the hybrid.
[00:28:05] He's like the LeBron James.
[00:28:06] Yeah, true.
[00:28:07] Of the horsemen.
[00:28:08] And yeah, he can play point guard position, but get him in the paint.
[00:28:11] He going to be a center.
[00:28:12] So it was like, he can do everything.
[00:28:14] And it's like, we all came together in such a short time span and it made sense.
[00:28:19] It was like, okay, like this is what step aside meant.
[00:28:22] And then came the wave of others who became more bold in their faith and so unashamed.
[00:28:28] It was like, yo, I want to be, I want to rep my faith in this culture.
[00:28:31] And they became like more Christians.
[00:28:33] And it was incredible.
[00:28:35] What's the name of the league?
[00:28:37] The league, what, the Christian league?
[00:28:38] The Christian battle rapper league.
[00:28:40] So the league that I started off at wasn't really a Christian league.
[00:28:43] It was just a regular battle league.
[00:28:45] It was called Bars.
[00:28:46] It was called Battle Another Rapper Showcase.
[00:28:47] It was just for college.
[00:28:49] But there are leagues now.
[00:28:50] There's like Overflow Rap League.
[00:28:52] I've heard of Overflow.
[00:28:52] Overflow Rap League.
[00:28:53] Shouts to Lee.
[00:28:55] Lee Majors.
[00:28:56] They got Prestavia over there.
[00:28:58] The Logistrate.
[00:28:59] Voice the Poet.
[00:29:01] PDF.
[00:29:01] PDF.
[00:29:02] There's a few others.
[00:29:04] I'm scrambling in a mix.
[00:29:06] I think that's the more dominant Christian rap league.
[00:29:10] I think they have Slap League, which is more like Christians battling in themes.
[00:29:14] Like depression versus anxiety.
[00:29:18] Interesting.
[00:29:18] Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:19] And it's like, that's more themed.
[00:29:21] And they have Omega over there.
[00:29:23] And it's like really dope.
[00:29:24] But that's more themed.
[00:29:25] But like the idea of just battle rap holding Christian foundation, I would say Overflow.
[00:29:30] That's dope.
[00:29:31] Yeah.
[00:29:31] That's dope.
[00:29:32] How do you find yourself, particularly now, dropping the album?
[00:29:37] Yeah.
[00:29:38] Renee's about to have a baby.
[00:29:39] Come on.
[00:29:40] The timing is interesting of the album dropping.
[00:29:42] Girl about to have a baby.
[00:29:44] Come on now.
[00:29:45] Two drops in 30 days.
[00:29:46] The album dropping.
[00:29:47] The baby drop.
[00:29:47] Come on.
[00:29:48] Right?
[00:29:48] That's the deluxe right there.
[00:29:49] Was that planned?
[00:29:51] No.
[00:29:52] At all.
[00:29:52] No.
[00:29:52] It wasn't at all.
[00:29:53] You know what I'm saying?
[00:29:54] Man, it's so crazy because if you knew how hard we had to fight to get to this moment,
[00:30:05] like just within our marriage, with our own personal lives, to get to a state or stage
[00:30:12] or phase in our lives where we're about to have a child.
[00:30:16] Right.
[00:30:17] This is our first child.
[00:30:18] Yeah.
[00:30:19] And it's a girl.
[00:30:20] I wanted a girl.
[00:30:20] I just out the gate.
[00:30:22] I wanted a girl.
[00:30:22] Out the gate.
[00:30:23] Out the gate.
[00:30:24] Nothing against boys.
[00:30:25] I just wanted a girl.
[00:30:27] I was like, man, please, Lord, let me have a girl first.
[00:30:30] And the Lord answered my prayer.
[00:30:31] But like, man, honestly, this doesn't happen by any other way but God.
[00:30:39] We didn't plan this.
[00:30:40] This is not something we'd even thought we'd see at this point.
[00:30:44] Maybe the album.
[00:30:46] Right.
[00:30:46] I told myself around roughly when I wanted to put out the album.
[00:30:49] I never even set a date.
[00:30:51] And I was like, probably towards the end of the year, put out the album.
[00:30:55] And in our own personal lives, we were going through things.
[00:30:58] And when we got to a stage where we've had conversations about having a child.
[00:31:03] And it was like, you know, prayerfully when we feel like it's the right time.
[00:31:08] And we just saw favor.
[00:31:09] Right.
[00:31:10] Slowly building up in our lives to where like we anything we were questioning, God answered immediately.
[00:31:16] That's good.
[00:31:16] But financially, how are we going to be able to God provided another job?
[00:31:20] Oh, we need space.
[00:31:22] If we're thinking about having a baby, we need more space.
[00:31:24] God provided an apartment.
[00:31:26] God is just answering all these things.
[00:31:28] Like it was more so like a humble.
[00:31:29] Trust me.
[00:31:30] Just trust me.
[00:31:32] And, you know, it's crazy towards the end of the year now.
[00:31:35] It's like she's full term.
[00:31:37] She's like the baby can come.
[00:31:39] The baby can come right now.
[00:31:41] Right.
[00:31:42] We're going to finish this interview.
[00:31:44] We're going to finish this interview.
[00:31:46] Nah, but listen, if something goes down, it will be a historic moment at Holy Culture Radio.
[00:31:52] How are you preparing to manage your time, bro?
[00:31:55] Because I can only imagine you already had demands on your time.
[00:31:58] Now you've got two new things.
[00:31:59] Album, child, career.
[00:32:02] How are you managing all that?
[00:32:03] Man, there's so much more to manage within that.
[00:32:07] A lot of people don't know.
[00:32:08] Like I work a regular job.
[00:32:10] You know what I'm saying?
[00:32:11] Like I'm a simple man.
[00:32:12] But I even went that.
[00:32:14] Like I work two jobs.
[00:32:15] You know, I work 16 hour days, Monday to Friday.
[00:32:18] So I'm a case worker.
[00:32:20] Yeah.
[00:32:20] I help out with migrants who come into the country and get their paperwork.
[00:32:24] Yeah.
[00:32:25] And I'm also a special education teacher.
[00:32:27] So like I help out with children who have special needs.
[00:32:30] Those are two mentally demanding jobs.
[00:32:32] Listen.
[00:32:34] Because if you know, you know.
[00:32:36] Those are two mentally demanding jobs.
[00:32:38] And then to come home and still be the man you need to be for your family.
[00:32:45] Right.
[00:32:45] Be as attentive and be as present as possible.
[00:32:48] Now we have a puppy, you know.
[00:32:50] And that's a thing.
[00:32:52] But like now stepping into a world now we're about to have a daughter.
[00:32:56] Right.
[00:32:56] And like I just put out my album.
[00:32:59] And it's just like mentally I'm spent.
[00:33:02] Physically I'm tired.
[00:33:04] But I find myself now more willing to handle the responsibilities than ever.
[00:33:10] Because I think it's more about obedience.
[00:33:12] Like the Lord has granted me all these things because he requires greater of me.
[00:33:19] And like I've kind of held that on.
[00:33:22] And just like you know what God whatever you need me to work these jobs.
[00:33:25] Let's do it.
[00:33:26] Yeah.
[00:33:27] You want me to put out this album.
[00:33:29] Let's do it.
[00:33:30] You want me to be as present as I can.
[00:33:33] Let's do it.
[00:33:34] You want me to prepare to be a father.
[00:33:36] Let's do it.
[00:33:37] You know.
[00:33:37] And it's just like I think the Lord is honoring my obedience.
[00:33:41] And that.
[00:33:42] And it's a lot.
[00:33:43] You know it's a lot.
[00:33:44] Yeah.
[00:33:44] But I'm just with it being as tiring as it is.
[00:33:48] I'm seeing the goodness in what God is promising.
[00:33:50] Yeah.
[00:33:50] I can't complain.
[00:33:52] That's good.
[00:33:52] It sounds like you're getting comfortable being uncomfortable.
[00:33:59] Don't preach brother.
[00:34:00] Come on.
[00:34:00] No seriously.
[00:34:01] Like when I'm listening to you talk about the journey man and getting to this point
[00:34:05] and the third round and everything though.
[00:34:07] It sounds like you're in a place where you're getting mad comfortable being uncomfortable.
[00:34:12] That's literally the season of my life right now.
[00:34:14] I think it's just about you don't see what God has promised for you in comfortable places.
[00:34:21] The moment you're in a comfortable space, you're in a space of I got it.
[00:34:27] I can handle this because this is within the realm of what makes me feel good or what I feel I can handle.
[00:34:33] You only see what God has promised for you in uncomfortable situations because you're not leaning on your own understanding.
[00:34:41] There you go.
[00:34:41] You're not leaning on your own trust.
[00:34:43] You're not leaning on your own idea of how things should go.
[00:34:46] Like I look at it like going to the gym.
[00:34:49] Like it's like if you go to the gym and you're really not hitting them weights enough,
[00:34:54] you're just hitting the five pounds knowing you can take on at least 45 and not push for the 50.
[00:34:59] If you're going in there, hit the five pound 10 times and walk out, you're in a comfortable space.
[00:35:04] You don't start to see the progress until you've met some sort of resistance.
[00:35:09] You have to be uncomfortable to see a new level of where God wants to take you.
[00:35:13] That's it.
[00:35:14] So like I'm uncomfortable as can be, but I'm seeing God do some incredible things, man.
[00:35:22] I can finally say after 10 years, which to people it could be like, why'd you wait so long?
[00:35:28] You don't understand how uncomfortable it was for me to just, how stricken by fear I was.
[00:35:34] And now to finally say this was one of the biggest things that I felt was holding me back.
[00:35:39] And it took me being uncomfortable to finally get to the other side and realize I like it here.
[00:35:44] All right.
[00:35:45] I didn't know.
[00:35:46] And yeah, I'm, I'm uncomfortable, but it's, it's praise God for the uncomfortability.
[00:35:51] That's good.
[00:35:51] Like we say, the guy be the glory, right?
[00:35:53] I mean, sometimes you look at the odds of things.
[00:35:55] If it was, if it was us two fighting five dudes and we took them down, it wouldn't be quite as amazing.
[00:36:00] It would be like, yo, Trigg and Saga did work.
[00:36:03] But if it's us two and it's 30, which is the kind of odds that God stacks up, you know, you say five guys.
[00:36:11] Y'all need to work it out.
[00:36:13] Yeah.
[00:36:13] I got that.
[00:36:14] Put some more on there.
[00:36:15] Put some more on there.
[00:36:16] Right.
[00:36:16] And then so, so I need to show up and you know, for sure.
[00:36:20] Right.
[00:36:20] Right.
[00:36:21] Right.
[00:36:22] Man, that's dope.
[00:36:23] So, so talk about the outsiders, man.
[00:36:24] What is, what is the vision behind the outside?
[00:36:28] So shouts to the outsiders, you know what I mean?
[00:36:31] Beyond it being a social channel that I created on my, on my Instagram, like people, we, you know, we break bread in there.
[00:36:39] Daily devotions, you know, they get exclusive content on there.
[00:36:43] Just stuff that I'm sharing with people who support me directly.
[00:36:45] Gotcha.
[00:36:46] Aside from that.
[00:36:47] Right.
[00:36:49] For those who don't know, I'm a big wrestling fan.
[00:36:51] I'm a huge, huge wrestling fan.
[00:36:54] Like even having Swerve Strickland on the album is a big thing for me because I'm a fan of him.
[00:36:59] Yeah.
[00:36:59] That's dope.
[00:37:00] But, you know, there was a group in WCW called the outsiders.
[00:37:05] Yeah.
[00:37:05] And what they did was they disrupted the norm.
[00:37:09] They came in.
[00:37:10] That's.
[00:37:10] Yes.
[00:37:11] Yes.
[00:37:11] That's Hulk Hogan.
[00:37:12] Came in.
[00:37:12] Scott Hall.
[00:37:14] Kevin Nash.
[00:37:14] They disrupted everything that was considered the norm.
[00:37:18] Even Hulk Hogan from being a beloved good guy.
[00:37:21] Right.
[00:37:22] A hero.
[00:37:23] Right.
[00:37:23] And turning him into a villain.
[00:37:25] Right.
[00:37:26] Yeah.
[00:37:26] Now I'm not saying I want to be a villain.
[00:37:28] Right.
[00:37:28] But I think disrupting the norm is something that we need to do as believers.
[00:37:34] Yeah.
[00:37:34] Because there's so much that's being passed on as okay.
[00:37:37] Right.
[00:37:38] Within normal, within world society.
[00:37:40] And it's like, man, we got to just stand out.
[00:37:43] We have to stand out.
[00:37:44] We're in this world, but we're not of it.
[00:37:46] Right.
[00:37:46] So like, we're literally, we're literally set apart from people.
[00:37:51] Right.
[00:37:51] And it's going to look different.
[00:37:52] Yeah.
[00:37:52] It's going to be.
[00:37:53] That's the reason.
[00:37:54] It's going to be a thing.
[00:37:55] And it's going to, you know what?
[00:37:56] I'm okay with that.
[00:37:58] I'm okay with going against the grain.
[00:38:00] I'm okay with being a person that's like, the sore thumb that sticks out.
[00:38:04] Right.
[00:38:05] Because we're called to stand out.
[00:38:07] We're called to, you know what I mean?
[00:38:08] Salt of the world, bro.
[00:38:09] Absolutely.
[00:38:09] We got to, we got to just give it something different.
[00:38:13] So I was able to just tie in my love for wrestling with the outsider's idea and just find more purpose within who I am and who I like, who I've realized I was in my musical career.
[00:38:26] And even in battle rap, I was always seen as the outcast.
[00:38:29] I was different.
[00:38:30] But then I saw there was people that followed me and that supported me and believed in me that believed that they were just as outsiders in their own way, in their own world.
[00:38:40] And it's like, man, like you feel like an outsider at your job because you talk about Christ.
[00:38:46] You feel like an outsider because you brought up Christ at a so-and-so event or you won't go to these parties with your friend because you love Jesus.
[00:38:53] I'm standing in a culture where they don't believe in Christ or they don't like Christ or they don't love Christianity.
[00:38:58] And I'm standing here on the stage in front of 2,000 people saying, I believe that the Lord Christ died for my sins, rose on the third, and allowed me salvation through him.
[00:39:09] And people, they don't agree with it.
[00:39:12] So we got to stand out.
[00:39:14] It just became a thing where we've all created a community of being an outsider and what that means in your own personal lives and as a community of people.
[00:39:22] That's nice.
[00:39:22] That's nice.
[00:39:23] That's nice.
[00:39:25] As you were creating this album, man, there's some interesting collaborations.
[00:39:29] Talk to me.
[00:39:30] So let's start with the obvious one, Prestavia.
[00:39:34] She's so talented.
[00:39:35] She's so dumb.
[00:39:37] She's so fire.
[00:39:38] Did she believe you when you said, I'm finally doing this album?
[00:39:40] She didn't believe me.
[00:39:41] None of my friends believe me.
[00:39:42] None of my friends believe me.
[00:39:43] I could see her going, oh, bro.
[00:39:45] All right.
[00:39:45] Bro.
[00:39:45] Every time.
[00:39:46] Like, yo, bro, I'm really about to do the album.
[00:39:48] Yeah.
[00:39:48] Like, all right, Saga.
[00:39:50] Great.
[00:39:50] Cool story.
[00:39:51] Send me the track.
[00:39:52] Let me see.
[00:39:52] Yeah.
[00:39:52] Like, if I have a song, okay, I'm going to put out a song.
[00:39:56] Hey, you want to get on this song?
[00:39:58] Right.
[00:39:58] Yeah, yeah.
[00:39:58] And when I'm telling them, like, yeah, I'm thinking about putting this on the album.
[00:40:00] She hits me with a...
[00:40:02] All right.
[00:40:03] All right.
[00:40:04] Yeah, you're going to put out the album.
[00:40:05] Like, I'm serious.
[00:40:06] This time you gave it a due date.
[00:40:07] I need this back.
[00:40:08] When I started hitting people up for the, hey, what are you?
[00:40:11] Are you being my ass cap?
[00:40:13] What is, what's your...
[00:40:13] Right.
[00:40:22] What's the thing I'm going to do with it?
[00:40:23] Like, we're going to put out the album.
[00:40:25] So it's like, everybody who's been involved has definitely been like, okay.
[00:40:29] Mm-hmm.
[00:40:30] But Restavia, what's amazing about Restavia, I sent her the song.
[00:40:34] Let's say, let's say I sent her the song on, like, a Wednesday.
[00:40:37] Yeah.
[00:40:38] Like, about 5 p.m.
[00:40:40] She had her verse done 8 p.m. that same Wednesday.
[00:40:44] Mm-hmm.
[00:40:45] Mm-hmm.
[00:40:45] Just straight to it.
[00:40:46] Yeah.
[00:40:47] She came through the next day and laid it down in one take.
[00:40:52] She just, she's, she's a breath of fresh air.
[00:40:56] Yeah.
[00:40:56] And, and the battle rap world, she's the first ever Christian, female Christian battle rapper.
[00:41:01] I didn't know that.
[00:41:02] Yeah.
[00:41:03] So, like, I'm the first, I'm the first ever Christian battle rapper.
[00:41:05] Mm-hmm.
[00:41:05] She's the first ever female Christian battle rapper.
[00:41:08] Didn't know that.
[00:41:08] And that's where we, we grew our connection.
[00:41:11] Like, she had a battle at Overflow, and I was there to support her, and I was like, you're
[00:41:16] really dope.
[00:41:17] Right.
[00:41:17] You're, you're incredible.
[00:41:18] And we've just been locked in ever since.
[00:41:20] Wow.
[00:41:20] And that was the idea.
[00:41:21] And when I heard the song and I was creating Holy Armor, I sent her the idea.
[00:41:25] She had it done like that.
[00:41:26] She came through the next day and recorded it, and was like, yeah, like, she, her hunger,
[00:41:31] and she's just as versatile as me.
[00:41:33] She can sing, she can rap, she can, and so she's, she's incredible.
[00:41:37] That's good.
[00:41:37] What led to the Kid Capri collab?
[00:41:39] Man, um, shouts to Kid Capri, man.
[00:41:42] He's a legend in this place.
[00:41:44] A legend, bro.
[00:41:45] They even say, like, to say Kid Capri, as legendary as his career is, and what he's
[00:41:51] experienced, and what he's seen throughout hip hop, to say, he saw my battles, and to
[00:41:58] say, I like this guy's saga.
[00:42:00] I like what he represents.
[00:42:02] I think he stands for something really cool.
[00:42:04] And to reach out, and to being just like this calm, casual, back and forth DMs expressing
[00:42:10] like, yo, like, I'm a fan of what you do.
[00:42:13] And I'm looking at him like, I'm a fan of what you do.
[00:42:17] I'm, you're Kid Capri.
[00:42:17] I've been doing it for decades.
[00:42:19] Bro, I'm talking about Def Comedy Jam.
[00:42:21] Yes, man.
[00:42:22] You know what I'm saying?
[00:42:22] It's like-
[00:42:23] Didn't he, didn't he, uh, for KRS?
[00:42:25] Yeah.
[00:42:25] At the battle with him and Kane?
[00:42:26] Bro.
[00:42:27] And he's done so much.
[00:42:28] Yeah.
[00:42:29] And I'm just like, I can literally timeline what, like, you've been on this, you've been
[00:42:34] like, the soundtrack to a lot of phases in my life within hip hop.
[00:42:39] Yes.
[00:42:39] And now to say, not only, I didn't know he's a believer.
[00:42:42] I didn't know he loves Jesus.
[00:42:44] I didn't know he was a Christian.
[00:42:45] Yeah.
[00:42:45] But he watches my battles.
[00:42:48] And then he heard the music.
[00:42:50] He heard stuff like 4am Uber.
[00:42:52] Gotcha.
[00:42:53] He heard stuff like Play About Me and Man Down and Legend and all that stuff.
[00:42:57] And he was like, I love your music too, by the way.
[00:43:00] I was like, well, I have a song.
[00:43:05] I'm just gonna throw this out there to you.
[00:43:07] Right, exactly.
[00:43:07] You know, you don't wanna assume.
[00:43:09] Right.
[00:43:09] Listen, just slide this under your door.
[00:43:11] You just, you know, tell me what you think about that.
[00:43:13] And then he heard it and he was like, I didn't even ask him if he wanted to be on it.
[00:43:17] I was like, yo, what do you think about this?
[00:43:19] And when he heard Plus Sign Tatted, he was like, yo, that's based in the beginning.
[00:43:23] Like, you mind if I, like, if I do something?
[00:43:27] I was like, by all means, legendary.
[00:43:32] Bro, you were supposed to play.
[00:43:33] By all means.
[00:43:34] You were supposed to play Hard to Get.
[00:43:35] You were supposed to go.
[00:43:36] I actually have a commitment.
[00:43:38] But let me, I can probably push them off.
[00:43:42] You're supposed to play Hard to Get.
[00:43:44] He said, yo, can I do something?
[00:43:45] I was like, yeah, bro.
[00:43:46] You know?
[00:43:47] And he sent the idea.
[00:43:48] It was like one take.
[00:43:49] Boom.
[00:43:50] Boom.
[00:43:51] And it was just like, man.
[00:43:53] He even said the idea.
[00:43:54] Like, my debut album, I have a legend in hip hop.
[00:44:00] Yeah.
[00:44:00] Legend.
[00:44:01] Legend.
[00:44:01] Legendary DJ.
[00:44:02] Legendary personality.
[00:44:03] I have Kate Capri.
[00:44:04] It's just been so dope to see how the Lord brings everything together.
[00:44:07] Yes.
[00:44:08] Through battle rap.
[00:44:08] People saw me through battle rap and were able to give me a chance to show who I am outside of it.
[00:44:13] And it created these incredible relationships, man.
[00:44:17] Wow, wow.
[00:44:18] And how did Swerve Strickland come to be a part?
[00:44:21] Swerve.
[00:44:22] So, you know, like I said, I'm a big wrestling fan.
[00:44:25] Right.
[00:44:25] I'm always doing wrestling bars in all of my battles.
[00:44:28] I am, and don't let nobody ever tell you any different.
[00:44:31] I am the wrestling bar king.
[00:44:34] There you go.
[00:44:34] I hold on to that crown.
[00:44:36] This is not arrogance.
[00:44:37] This is confidence.
[00:44:38] I have been putting in wrestling bars in my battle rap career since I started.
[00:44:44] I have over 100 battles.
[00:44:47] I'm big on wrestling, right?
[00:44:49] So wrestlers watch battle rap as well.
[00:44:53] So it's like we watch them, they watch us.
[00:44:55] And it got to a point where I'd set a bar about him.
[00:44:59] I can't even remember the bar, but I set a bar about him.
[00:45:02] It caught wind.
[00:45:04] He followed me.
[00:45:06] And then in our casual, just following each other back and talking, I realized he did music.
[00:45:12] Yeah.
[00:45:12] Yeah.
[00:45:14] So I sent him the song.
[00:45:16] Usually when I create songs in the moment, I create them with an open verse.
[00:45:20] Yeah.
[00:45:20] I do the first verse, the hook, and I'll work on the second verse later, or I'll just leave it in case I want to lend it to somebody.
[00:45:26] Yeah.
[00:45:26] And at this point in time, it was top dog, and I had the second verse available.
[00:45:32] And now I'm actually just, as I think about it, everything kind of happened in a very instantaneous moment.
[00:45:39] You know, Kay Capri getting on it, boom.
[00:45:41] Pristavia, the day after I sent it to her, boom.
[00:45:43] Yeah.
[00:45:44] And it was like, Swerve, he heard the song, loved it.
[00:45:47] He loved, and he obviously, what I love about all these features that I'm reaching out for is they understand my belief.
[00:45:52] Right.
[00:45:52] They understand my morals and what I'm willing to stand on.
[00:45:56] Right.
[00:45:56] They understand I'm a believer, and they want to make sure that they don't compromise that.
[00:46:01] Right.
[00:46:01] You know, I want to make sure everybody's on the same page.
[00:46:03] I know you're, he's a secular artist.
[00:46:06] Right.
[00:46:06] Which can ruffle feathers to people, but like he understood the call to what I was asking.
[00:46:11] That's good.
[00:46:12] And it was like immediately sent over the verse the next day, and I'm like, I got a wrestler.
[00:46:17] I got one of my favorite wrestlers, my favorite current day wrestlers.
[00:46:21] That is so wild.
[00:46:22] That's like having a song and having the rock on it.
[00:46:25] Right.
[00:46:26] It's like, what?
[00:46:27] That is just wild, man.
[00:46:28] You know, so it's like, I'm super grateful for Swerve.
[00:46:31] It's always been down to earth.
[00:46:34] He's like a megastar in AEW.
[00:46:37] But we chop it up.
[00:46:39] Like, he could have a match, right?
[00:46:41] And then like 15 minutes after the match, I'll DM him like, yo, great match, bro.
[00:46:44] He'll respond immediately like, yo, bro, I am sore.
[00:46:48] Like, it's just like, and it's the level of transparency and accessibility that's always been really dope.
[00:46:52] That's good.
[00:46:53] It's wild, but it's not.
[00:46:54] You know what?
[00:46:54] Because one thing is, you know, we're all humans, man.
[00:46:56] And I think we just so appreciate people who are good at their craft.
[00:47:01] Yeah.
[00:47:01] And if there's intersections, I don't know about you, sometimes, I remember my wife and I used to go to this restaurant.
[00:47:06] And the guy who would come up and take our order when we got him and bless would get him, the way he would go through the menu and the specialty items.
[00:47:14] I'm going to say to my wife, he's so good.
[00:47:16] He's so good.
[00:47:17] He's like, tonight we have succulent shrimp made by a chef, dripped in butter.
[00:47:25] But the way he would, the pride he took in the work, that's what I think it was, right?
[00:47:30] It's the pride in the work and the desire to deliver excellence.
[00:47:34] You can appreciate that even if that's not your field.
[00:47:37] Yeah.
[00:47:37] Right?
[00:47:38] So then when there's overlap, right?
[00:47:40] And I see that, and you're mentioning me or you're talking about what I do.
[00:47:44] Man, real recognize, real.
[00:47:46] I mean, you just recognize that, you know what I mean?
[00:47:47] I think it's beautiful to see, and it goes back to that fear thing, man.
[00:47:52] I was so fearful of not being accepted and not realizing that if I just worked in the excellence that God requires of me, the people that need to see it are going to gravitate towards it.
[00:48:03] That's good.
[00:48:04] Like, Kid Capri saw the excellence of what the Lord was doing in me and said, I like him.
[00:48:09] I want to work with him in whatever capacity he sees fit.
[00:48:14] Swerve.
[00:48:14] He doesn't have to.
[00:48:15] Yeah.
[00:48:16] He's like, he has his own things going on.
[00:48:18] We have a casual conversation.
[00:48:20] He knows of me through battle rap, and I say, hey, I have a song, and immediately, I like what he does.
[00:48:25] There's a level of excellence in what he does that I respect, and I want to be able to be a part of.
[00:48:31] So I would never reach these moments had I been stuck in my fear, had I been stuck.
[00:48:35] That's why fear is such a big thing for me.
[00:48:38] If there's anything I can do to help people shake out of that fear and just letting go of it all and just trusting in God, that's the bigger theme for me in my life and in my story and in my album, everything.
[00:48:53] It's just like, man, if you just look on the other side of fear, what God has in store for you, there's so much.
[00:49:00] It's so much.
[00:49:01] So much.
[00:49:02] It's so good.
[00:49:03] Man, as we start to wrap up, where do you see this saga in three years?
[00:49:10] You know, you'll have a three-year-old daughter.
[00:49:13] Your career will be, I'm imagining God is expanding your territory.
[00:49:18] I pray so.
[00:49:19] Licensing may be taken off, given all the bars you talk about, AEW and wrestlers and whatever.
[00:49:25] I receive it.
[00:49:26] Where do you see yourself in three years?
[00:49:29] Man, I see myself in this space.
[00:49:32] I don't know.
[00:49:33] Like, you know, make sure she's not looking at me.
[00:49:35] I see myself with another child.
[00:49:38] Ooh.
[00:49:39] Hello?
[00:49:40] Ooh.
[00:49:41] Hello?
[00:49:41] How you doing?
[00:49:42] What's the temperature like in the room back there?
[00:49:43] Hello.
[00:49:44] She's over there looking at you.
[00:49:45] She looked the other way?
[00:49:47] I'm looking at you.
[00:49:48] You're looking at me.
[00:49:48] What are we talking about here?
[00:49:51] Nah, but I see myself doing a lot more for the community in regards to mental health.
[00:49:59] I want to speak to young, and more specifically as well, young black men, young black boys,
[00:50:08] speaking towards mental health.
[00:50:11] I know for me, my struggles with suicide, my struggles with depression, stuff like that.
[00:50:15] It's got to be good.
[00:50:16] Did you have a suicide attempt?
[00:50:17] Oh, yeah.
[00:50:18] Wow.
[00:50:19] How long ago?
[00:50:20] 14.
[00:50:20] I was 14 years old.
[00:50:21] Wow.
[00:50:22] 14 years old.
[00:50:23] Wow.
[00:50:23] Laying in my mom's kitchen with pills in one hand and a knife in another.
[00:50:33] And I was like, I'm going out one of these ways today, and I don't know which one it was.
[00:50:37] Man, I'm sorry.
[00:50:37] And it's like, man, the Lord didn't save me from so much, bro.
[00:50:41] And it's like, I know with how much I'm overcoming.
[00:50:45] Yeah.
[00:50:46] I want to be able to be the voice I wish I heard.
[00:50:49] Mm-hmm.
[00:50:49] So I think it's a responsibility for me personally, having gone through these things.
[00:50:54] Yeah.
[00:50:55] Having dealt with waves of depression, having dealt with suicidal thoughts, and wanting to
[00:51:00] just end it all.
[00:51:02] And knowing that had I ended it all early, I would never see moments like this.
[00:51:08] And it's like, I want to be able to just be that encouragement to young black men everywhere.
[00:51:14] And it's like, okay, it's okay to feel sad.
[00:51:18] Like, that's why that's, don't stay there.
[00:51:19] It's such a big record for me because it's like, listen, I don't want you to neglect these feelings.
[00:51:24] We have to accept what these feelings are and then move towards something greater.
[00:51:29] Yeah.
[00:51:29] So like, if there's any way in these next three years I can get something going to where like,
[00:51:34] there's a community of people, there's something in the works of just mental health,
[00:51:39] young black men, just helping them, obviously through Christian foundations.
[00:51:43] Right.
[00:51:44] And morals because I think that's important.
[00:51:46] That's what helped me.
[00:51:47] Like, if had it not been for my faith in God and my trust in him, I don't know where I'll be.
[00:51:52] I see myself not working two jobs.
[00:51:55] I see myself really trusting in God and moving forth in the ministry and the brand.
[00:51:59] And like you said, expanding my territory.
[00:52:02] I want to be able to get to a space where I can just lean in on this full time.
[00:52:06] Yeah.
[00:52:06] If I'm being completely honest.
[00:52:08] Sure.
[00:52:08] And I see my wife in ministry.
[00:52:11] I see my wife doing incredible things.
[00:52:14] I see my child getting ready, getting prepped up.
[00:52:17] And, you know, it's just, I just see so many incredible things, but it just starts with trusting in the Lord.
[00:52:22] That's it, brother.
[00:52:24] Well, first of all, let me say thank you again for coming.
[00:52:27] Let me, man, let me just affirm.
[00:52:29] First of all, you said you want to be, hopefully, you know, you already are right.
[00:52:35] You've established yourself with many visually in the battle rap community.
[00:52:40] But just like you said, man, you're doing counseling, you're helping in special education.
[00:52:44] Yeah.
[00:52:45] You are visually a mentor for many in terms of being an artist now with a project that you've shown so many dimensions of yourself.
[00:52:55] Right.
[00:52:56] And then cap that or add to that the transparency of your story and overcoming fear coming out of suicide and whatnot.
[00:53:04] And again, you know, mental health prior to just a couple of years ago was not something we talked about openly in the black community.
[00:53:10] We didn't.
[00:53:11] It's still fresh to me.
[00:53:12] It's still a fresh conversation.
[00:53:14] Very fresh.
[00:53:14] Right.
[00:53:14] Because as far as I'm concerned, we're still learning now how to do it.
[00:53:18] So, okay, great.
[00:53:19] I can talk about it.
[00:53:20] What does care look like?
[00:53:21] Yes.
[00:53:21] What does community look like?
[00:53:23] What do tools look like?
[00:53:25] Et cetera.
[00:53:26] Right.
[00:53:26] And it's harder to me anyway, post pandemic, because it's easier to get isolated.
[00:53:32] Yeah.
[00:53:32] And isolation just provokes those those things.
[00:53:36] Right.
[00:53:37] So.
[00:53:37] So coming out of all that.
[00:53:38] So to me, it's still fresh, man.
[00:53:39] So thank you for sharing all that, brother.
[00:53:41] We're going to be praying for you.
[00:53:43] We're going to be pushing the project.
[00:53:44] Tell people where they should tap in with you at, man.
[00:53:47] Everything.
[00:53:48] I'm talking Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all that.
[00:53:53] TH3SAGA.
[00:53:54] I'm pretty easy to find.
[00:53:55] Pretty accessible.
[00:53:57] And yeah, that's all right now.
[00:53:59] You know, obviously the project is out.
[00:54:01] I pray that there's something on this project.
[00:54:04] If it's not everything, that there's one song on this project that speaks to the season you're in right now.
[00:54:10] Listen top to bottom, y'all.
[00:54:11] It's called As of Late.
[00:54:12] And by the way, not that I ever try to put things in buckets or themes of sounds, but it's actually a very nice project to listen to right now in this holiday season.
[00:54:22] Really?
[00:54:22] Yeah, because you know what?
[00:54:23] Because of the singing and the tracks and the openness of it, it's not gritty.
[00:54:28] It's not extra hard.
[00:54:29] People are going to assume from you it's going to be gritty and extra hard.
[00:54:32] And I want people to understand, like, this is a nice, you know, your family coming over and whatnot.
[00:54:36] It's great to play in the back.
[00:54:38] A little play about me while the kids opening their gifts.
[00:54:41] Come on.
[00:54:42] Absolutely.
[00:54:42] Make sure to get that.
[00:54:43] So enjoy that, y'all.
[00:54:44] Until next time, you know what it is, y'all.
[00:54:45] This has been Holy Coach Alive in Studio Kingdom Building Conversation.
[00:54:48] Bless y'all.
[00:54:49] Bless y'all.