In this episode, we are talking rap battles and beef within the hip hop community. The conversation touches on the negative trend of petty battles, the cultural impact, and the need for authenticity. We also explore the positive side of battles that focus on affirmation and the commendable apology of J. Cole who chose integrity over competition. The conversation also highlights the dangers of beef leading to real conflicts and the Christian hip hop community's response to artists' personal struggles, advocating for compassion and understanding.
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[00:00:02] Radio
[00:00:26] Yo, we are talking about beef today. Hip Hop has always been very direct. Hip Hop ain't playing around with controversy.
[00:00:37] It's going to stir up some controversy. As a matter of fact, it may create the daggum controversy.
[00:00:41] Hip Hop is going to be real, relevant and respectful.
[00:00:44] And battle rap and beefing has always been the case.
[00:00:47] Except for some of these mugs who are rapping and beefing with each other back and forth that we're hearing about right now.
[00:00:55] It's crazy. We say J.
[00:00:58] Yeah, man. It's a different time, bro. It's definitely a different time.
[00:01:04] I love how Ash makes it serious. Beef is deeper than just what we do on the microphone.
[00:01:11] Beef is what we see on the street. Beef is when we can't even talk to each other face to face. Beef is real.
[00:01:19] But this stuff that we see now, man, it's like people just sitting their own trying to make up stuff so that they could have more followers or more.
[00:01:29] Anyway, man, I just miss when Hip Hop beefs were about somebody crossing that line and their need to boast on themselves that crossed that line saying something else.
[00:01:45] So yeah, man, you don't always get love from me as we talk about rap battle.
[00:01:50] Yeah, because that is.
[00:01:52] Yo, I don't know if y'all have heard.
[00:01:55] Muhammad Ali and Michael Jordan. Now that was Key and Pio Man on YouTube wilding out.
[00:02:01] They got a bunch of different epic rap battles.
[00:02:04] Man, they got Mahogany against Martin Luther King.
[00:02:07] Martin Luther King.
[00:02:09] But you know, like funny feel.
[00:02:13] But they get what actual battle rapping is because they're taking not only like things that are specific to the other person and flipping it.
[00:02:26] You know, man, your lines are more wack than Space Jam did.
[00:02:30] You know what I mean?
[00:02:31] Like talking about like, you know, when he said y'all couldn't see it, but when he said now you double dribble in balls you can't see.
[00:02:38] He was like making it like he had Parkinson's.
[00:02:42] So it's like, but it's like it's creative.
[00:02:47] Yeah, it's it takes skill.
[00:02:50] It takes intelligence and not only do you rap about the other person, but you have to take their lines and flip it back on them.
[00:02:57] So you got to be quick.
[00:02:58] Like you got to have with yeah, that's not what I see all of these battles now.
[00:03:02] That's that's what's the thing, man.
[00:03:04] They just talking about it.
[00:03:05] It's like, I'm going to because some of the lines that they saying is not relevant to the moment with a battle in that space like that.
[00:03:18] You know what I mean?
[00:03:19] Like they they like pull something out of some other song that they already got and they bring it together and they saying something out of air.
[00:03:27] They're not saying I see which blue sweater looking like a goof or whatever, you know, I ain't able to step on you right there.
[00:03:33] Yes.
[00:03:34] You know, when you look at how you battle, how come from an era and you do to where when you battle it comes off the dump.
[00:03:44] Now you might have a second.
[00:03:46] You might have a second when the person come up, they might say they name you start getting to thoughts in the head.
[00:03:52] But overall what you saying is coming based off of this actual, you know, battle this confrontation.
[00:04:00] Of course what they got on is what you heard them say is the crew that's with them.
[00:04:04] You know, one of my favorite battles to see his eight mile.
[00:04:07] Like him and him talking about like he used the line when do say I can't believe I'm battling to do from leave it to be that he comes back.
[00:04:17] His next line is like Ward, you know, I got a little love for the for the beaver.
[00:04:22] You Wally, Miss Cleaver like brought it back.
[00:04:26] Everybody's talking about his crew.
[00:04:29] Make me watch it tonight.
[00:04:30] I'm a watch it tonight man.
[00:04:33] I don't see that kind of creativity no more man is frustrating even one of my favorite battles of all time this less or well known one is ice cube and common.
[00:04:45] You know, I mean, that was like, common say right now like he he can't even listen to that song right now because he like man that was so petty.
[00:04:54] Like I really didn't even need to battle like battle should be based off of like skill.
[00:04:58] It was really based off of ice cube get mad because of what I said and I used to love her.
[00:05:03] And that wouldn't even really MC battle and I wasted my time.
[00:05:07] You know, I mean, I feel like every battle I hear nowadays is like that.
[00:05:12] There's somebody saying something petty.
[00:05:14] Yeah, you know, I mean, and I used to love it.
[00:05:17] He says that hip hop moved out to the West Coast and now she's a gangster on the with gangster beings.
[00:05:22] Right. And then ice cube goes, man, why you got to this the West Coast?
[00:05:27] Well, I'm telling us using hip hop personified as a woman like what you missed all of that.
[00:05:36] And so he's like, I feel like I wasted my time trying to retaliate against somebody who don't even understand actually what hip hop battle.
[00:05:44] And that's how I feel about that now.
[00:05:46] I feel like people wasting their time telling the nonsense.
[00:05:50] It's a good point. Yeah, yeah, I would much rather see you, you know, struggling, trying to get something together and making it up right then.
[00:06:01] And it fall apart and you just come in with something.
[00:06:04] You read the green book.
[00:06:05] I read the yellow book, something just rapping about.
[00:06:08] That's why you can't even cook.
[00:06:10] What? What?
[00:06:12] Like, you just make it like, like, it's like, it's almost like gone.
[00:06:18] Like, Jay, like we talked about this before, like, J Quest talking about gone is the third verse.
[00:06:24] Right. It's like, where is the patience for the skill?
[00:06:29] Where is the value for the skill?
[00:06:31] Where is the commitment to the skill?
[00:06:34] Now they got all kind of tournaments jumping off with battles.
[00:06:37] You know, I got I got friends watching battles on a phone just battling right.
[00:06:42] And some of us cold.
[00:06:44] Some of us grabbing stuff right there when they see and they get you.
[00:06:47] Some of you could tell, OK, you could have wrote that and use it anywhere.
[00:06:51] And you just happen to put in and that's why you got a big nose.
[00:06:55] You know, you just kind of play with that.
[00:06:58] But I think when it comes to people really honing in on their skills as an MC, I remember I am
[00:07:05] my smile talking about how they would have a cypher and the barbershop is somewhere.
[00:07:10] And even in the cypher, Monks was free styling to catch it.
[00:07:13] And I'm throwing back to you, but they catch it and they rhyming.
[00:07:16] Whether there was going to battle a little bit in that spot.
[00:07:18] Who knows if they was going to bring this quality in that spot.
[00:07:22] And if you couldn't bring it, you had to bow out that circle.
[00:07:24] You know, that's right.
[00:07:26] The young guy trying to come to that level of skill.
[00:07:29] Remember, remember, it was juice versus all that supernat, supernatural out of New York.
[00:07:36] Oh my gosh.
[00:07:38] Y'all got to go look at it.
[00:07:39] I got to look at a juice out of Chicago beat supernat like beating.
[00:07:42] And then I think supernat came back and beat it.
[00:07:45] But in the context of looking class.
[00:07:48] Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:49] And supernat got a video.
[00:07:50] He was in his crib rapping about everything he saw in his crib.
[00:07:53] He saw a book and he just was, you know, I could battle, but I'm not going to make
[00:07:57] no kind of sense.
[00:07:58] I'm just going to put words together.
[00:07:59] This man to think critically about a grammar, how you're going to say it
[00:08:03] and then catch it where you bring another word and it makes sense to
[00:08:05] another thought pattern.
[00:08:06] Just brilliant.
[00:08:07] You know what I'm saying?
[00:08:08] It's like that, like that 10 minute cipher, 10 minute.
[00:08:12] 10 minute line that I don't know how many bars you rap when Black Thought was on
[00:08:18] with Funkmaster Flex.
[00:08:22] Oh, it was Funkmaster Flex.
[00:08:23] That was ridiculous.
[00:08:24] Man, he was gone.
[00:08:26] Just going.
[00:08:27] Just going.
[00:08:28] And you know what, Phil?
[00:08:29] I know when like when we first met like back in the early 2000s, man,
[00:08:34] like I was fresh out of college, fresh out of like, I feel like every day was
[00:08:39] a cipher like hanging with my crew in school and you know, and you know,
[00:08:44] show and all these guys like this was my every day.
[00:08:47] And so like Phil tell you man, you could say J.
[00:08:51] I know.
[00:08:52] Yeah.
[00:08:53] You know what I mean?
[00:08:55] Like because it was like every day like it was that was what we did.
[00:08:59] And that's what I'm saying.
[00:09:00] Like it seems to me like these dudes who are these females who say that rhyming is
[00:09:04] what they do.
[00:09:05] Like this is what they do.
[00:09:06] Right.
[00:09:07] Like it shouldn't it shouldn't take and I'm not saying everybody's a dope
[00:09:10] off the brang free time.
[00:09:12] Of course, it's a gift.
[00:09:13] It's a skill.
[00:09:14] You can hone it but it's a gift.
[00:09:16] But I still feel like like if you're going to be in that arena,
[00:09:19] you have to hone your craft and it's something that you should be
[00:09:22] working at all the time.
[00:09:24] I used to sit in my dorm room or in my apartment in college
[00:09:27] and just turn on beats and just go.
[00:09:30] Hey, nobody can hear me.
[00:09:32] Grab a pencil or grab a bag or grab it.
[00:09:35] It's you know, and like it's go and I don't think people like care that much
[00:09:40] anymore.
[00:09:41] Yeah.
[00:09:42] Yeah.
[00:09:43] I feel like MC and I hope I hope they you know,
[00:09:46] I remember our other show talking about like how young MCs feel like we
[00:09:50] always throwing a blanket up right.
[00:09:52] Right.
[00:09:53] The old head.
[00:09:54] I don't know if this is not you.
[00:09:57] If this don't speak to you, then I'm not talking about you.
[00:10:00] You know what I'm saying?
[00:10:01] Don't take it personal like I'm clumping everybody together.
[00:10:04] I think that dope, he's at a young, I think that dope MCs at a young.
[00:10:08] I think like you just got to know who you listen to.
[00:10:11] But there are some who know that we're talking to y'all.
[00:10:15] Yeah.
[00:10:16] And you got to get your way to man.
[00:10:18] That's all.
[00:10:19] I mean, the reality of spending that time in an open gym to get your jump shop
[00:10:24] on nobody there, you know, getting that like, like George Curve and Iceman
[00:10:28] used to shoot 10,000 jumpers a night.
[00:10:30] He's sneaking the gym and they finally just let him in the gym until he was
[00:10:33] just raining like no, no problem.
[00:10:36] And this is before the three pointers, right?
[00:10:38] This is much as shooting.
[00:10:39] And so you want to do that because you want to hone your craft so
[00:10:42] that you're always able to be called out at any moment in that
[00:10:46] space, you know, and preaching the same way to learn in the text every day,
[00:10:50] reading your own devotion, studying the word prayer.
[00:10:54] So somebody said, I need you to give a word prayer for you have a fresh word
[00:10:58] that you study from your own life that you need to eat on, right?
[00:11:02] That you're doing it in a space.
[00:11:03] And we did a battle at the firehouse for our MC battle at the firehouse,
[00:11:09] right?
[00:11:10] The fire fest at the time called a fire first now is called the firehouse
[00:11:12] block party, Silver Room block party gone.
[00:11:14] We'd have firehouse block party.
[00:11:15] So we're going to talk about that a little bit later on in the couple of
[00:11:20] shows coming up.
[00:11:21] But man, we did a battle and at the last battle, you had to battle the other
[00:11:26] person and you pull out the hat.
[00:11:28] Each battle, you have to pull out the hat and topic.
[00:11:31] And if one pull out the hat in the last battle is phenomenal against authentic.
[00:11:34] Man, the battle said affirm and esteem your partner.
[00:11:39] So instead of cutting them down, now you had to say,
[00:11:44] look at you with your fire with your fly locks on, which you grab a die and
[00:11:49] it's done a die.
[00:11:50] They had to affirm each other.
[00:11:52] I love it.
[00:11:53] That's a flip of the creativity of that piece, man.
[00:11:57] And I think what we're really talking about and undergirding is the
[00:12:01] creativity of hip hop, the creativity of the art state.
[00:12:04] You know, there's always going to be folks who are going to be,
[00:12:07] we got to stay true to the culture and true to the art.
[00:12:10] And if you, if you don't have some of the fundamentals and any athletic
[00:12:13] thing, you're going to drop the ball.
[00:12:15] You're not going to make the shot.
[00:12:16] You've got to stay how to fund them.
[00:12:17] Then you can catch with one hand.
[00:12:18] Then you can, you know, flip over running back.
[00:12:21] You know what I'm saying?
[00:12:22] Yo, this is church on the fly.
[00:12:23] We're talking about hip hop and church and the streets, man.
[00:12:26] We're going to come right back.
[00:12:29] Yeah, we talking about beef, y'all.
[00:12:32] We talking about beef rap battles.
[00:12:34] That was my man point ash with his mixtape was beef.
[00:12:39] Man, real beef is when you get in bully.
[00:12:43] Police.
[00:12:44] Police.
[00:12:45] That's real beef boy.
[00:12:46] Right.
[00:12:47] Point ash with Gary Indiana.
[00:12:50] Gary Indiana baby.
[00:12:52] Yeah.
[00:12:53] Man.
[00:12:54] That's my dude.
[00:12:55] What up, white man?
[00:12:56] Love you bro.
[00:12:57] I got you on the show.
[00:12:58] So man.
[00:12:59] Yeah man.
[00:13:00] I got to get it.
[00:13:01] What's going on with these beefs, Jay?
[00:13:04] Like, I mean, I know people have been talking about them.
[00:13:08] I do got to say though, Jay cold did have some cold lines.
[00:13:16] He said, he said you got a good song every 30 months or so.
[00:13:20] 30 months.
[00:13:21] Some he said, man.
[00:13:23] I was like, yo, you don't have to go there.
[00:13:25] You have to go there.
[00:13:26] But but then he came back, you know, and apologized.
[00:13:31] You know, I think that was just what he felt pretty good.
[00:13:37] You know, maybe it was taking folks taking it too far.
[00:13:40] You know, in the context of whether it's violence or other,
[00:13:45] because what happened?
[00:13:46] You got crazy fans.
[00:13:47] I think crazy fans that will take it.
[00:13:49] Yes.
[00:13:50] That's my man.
[00:13:51] Oh no.
[00:13:52] And they could be them people.
[00:13:55] You know, and what I what I respected,
[00:13:59] well, I think what I respected about at first I was like,
[00:14:03] apologize.
[00:14:05] I apologize.
[00:14:06] No battle.
[00:14:07] But then like I listened to like, I went and listen because I just
[00:14:10] saw like a Instagram thing or something that was just like,
[00:14:13] oh, he'd even apologize.
[00:14:14] I'm like, I apologize.
[00:14:15] But now when the listening, it wasn't so much him like,
[00:14:19] apologizing for anything he said or apologizing for battling.
[00:14:24] It was him saying, like, I didn't find I wasn't feeling no
[00:14:28] peace about the battle.
[00:14:29] He was saying like, God was convicting him like,
[00:14:33] this, this ain't what you supposed to be doing right now.
[00:14:36] So it was less about battling is right or wrong or he did
[00:14:40] apologize to Kendrick because Kendrick is such a superstar.
[00:14:43] It was more about I don't have any peace about what I'm doing
[00:14:47] in this specific moment.
[00:14:49] And so I'm going to be man enough to step back and be like,
[00:14:52] yo, if this ain't what I'm supposed to be doing,
[00:14:54] I'll step back from it.
[00:14:55] And for me, I got every respect to that because yeah,
[00:14:59] I got to give him a man respect today because it's not
[00:15:01] necessarily just about like, you know, whether I'm going to win
[00:15:05] or I feel like I'm losing or what people think of me.
[00:15:09] It was like, it was literally him not having any peace.
[00:15:11] Your inner peace got a matter of way more than that.
[00:15:14] Then how you perceive by other people in the world.
[00:15:17] So the man to be is like, yo, respect.
[00:15:21] Now hip hopper in me is like, bro, you rock.
[00:15:26] You battle to the end.
[00:15:28] But I got to give him a back for listening and for him for saying
[00:15:32] like, like saying to his fans, don't y'all love Kendrick?
[00:15:35] You know what I mean?
[00:15:36] They were like, yeah, you like me too.
[00:15:37] So I don't even know what I'm doing.
[00:15:39] Like real talk.
[00:15:40] So it was interesting hearing him at the concert,
[00:15:45] you know, do it or whatever.
[00:15:47] But it was, I mean, I can't think of another time in hip hop
[00:15:52] history where somebody like apologized for battling.
[00:15:55] Like I can't think of another time.
[00:15:57] It doesn't seem like, you know, that was even respected
[00:16:04] in that kind of thing.
[00:16:05] But I think that the artist has to be true to themselves
[00:16:13] in these spaces and too many times cast aren't.
[00:16:17] And they have maybe felt like, I need to just chill.
[00:16:20] I ain't this ain't even where I'm at.
[00:16:22] And they just kind of got to carry it away
[00:16:24] because of the crowd.
[00:16:26] You know, it's like, like sometimes pastors feel the move
[00:16:29] of the congregation is not really where the pastor may feel
[00:16:32] the congregation needs to move.
[00:16:34] But there's been other pastors, you know, beforehand,
[00:16:37] and there are different ways in which a pastor is like,
[00:16:39] well, I got it.
[00:16:41] And then the pastor ended up like, that gun burning out
[00:16:45] because the congregation is driving the pastor.
[00:16:47] And it's like, nah, slow down.
[00:16:49] You know, and moving at the speed that the Lord
[00:16:54] is leading that pastor.
[00:16:55] So in the same context, you know, the humanity of J. Cole
[00:16:59] and recognizing this ain't this ain't where I'm at.
[00:17:02] This ain't what I'm, what I'm about, you know?
[00:17:05] Yeah.
[00:17:06] Now these other situations though, like these other
[00:17:09] situations with this, this, yeah, this whole thing
[00:17:13] with Chris Brown, like, what is Chris like?
[00:17:18] I heard there was some beef and some tension,
[00:17:21] you know, quavo and all that like from back in the day.
[00:17:25] But then all of a sudden what Kendrick and J. Cole
[00:17:28] drinking him on a beef, you're going to get in a double
[00:17:31] Dutch?
[00:17:32] Like, oh, I got to get mine in.
[00:17:33] Like, I got to color my hair purple again
[00:17:36] and get up in this joint.
[00:17:37] You know, just bring some good music, man.
[00:17:41] Bring some good music.
[00:17:42] Like why do you have to, you are an R&B artist,
[00:17:47] you know what I'm saying?
[00:17:48] I don't know too many R&B artists that have just jumped
[00:17:53] in a beef, just jumped in and said, I'm a beef foot.
[00:17:59] Now, now there's a whole another, I mean all kind of beef.
[00:18:03] You got, we got what's your girl Taylor Swift beefing
[00:18:08] with what's my girl Kim Kardashian, you know,
[00:18:13] it's about Kim Kardashian lost like 100,000 followers
[00:18:17] on Instagram or something like that.
[00:18:19] And that's what I'm talking about.
[00:18:22] Ah!
[00:18:24] See, this is what's frustrating me feel.
[00:18:26] Like, what's beef?
[00:18:28] Like, there was a day when battling was about lyricism,
[00:18:36] not about how many followers you gave to lost.
[00:18:39] Like, like, how do we know who wins the battle now
[00:18:42] by who lost the most followers?
[00:18:44] Like, whose followers were the meanest to the other person?
[00:18:49] You know what I mean?
[00:18:50] Like, it's ridiculous, you know.
[00:18:53] And this is what I mean.
[00:18:55] Like, I was looking at some of the lyrics from Quavo's response
[00:19:02] to Chris Brown.
[00:19:03] Now, remember, we were just playing a, you know,
[00:19:09] comedic version of a diss track earlier on.
[00:19:13] And how creative they were, but it was all in good fun.
[00:19:17] And it was like talking about like, nobody's like naming people
[00:19:22] or talking about the actual stuff.
[00:19:24] This dude says, you've been, I'm going to use
[00:19:28] politically correct terms for our audience.
[00:19:30] You've been messed up your bag when you punched Riri
[00:19:34] in the face.
[00:19:35] What?
[00:19:36] Why would you bring that up?
[00:19:38] You know, talking about fashion week, you sparing who?
[00:19:43] Come punch me in the face.
[00:19:45] Ain't nothing but a fade.
[00:19:46] You know, you lost a friend.
[00:19:47] First of all, it doesn't rhyme.
[00:19:50] Secondly, all he's doing is talking about real stuff
[00:19:54] to happen in his life.
[00:19:55] Like there's no creativity.
[00:19:56] There's no like metaphoric way of talking about it.
[00:19:59] There's no like creativity in it.
[00:20:01] It's just you punched Riri in the face.
[00:20:04] What?
[00:20:05] Bro, that's not hip hop.
[00:20:09] That's not battling.
[00:20:11] That's an argument.
[00:20:12] That's an argument.
[00:20:14] And so I'm frustrated because if this generation has no clue
[00:20:19] of what real battling actually looks like,
[00:20:22] because cats like this, they just just
[00:20:26] expose the people truth.
[00:20:28] That was my problem with the Drake one.
[00:20:30] It's like all it was doing was just telling each other
[00:20:33] business that weren't like,
[00:20:35] they weren't creatively battling.
[00:20:38] And so, you know, that's why I was saying,
[00:20:40] like I thought a little bit that like what was going on with
[00:20:43] Cole and Kendrick, you know, and yeah, Kendrick was going
[00:20:49] to be helpful because these were guys that have actual
[00:20:53] bars and like lyrics and like creativity that was going to
[00:20:57] be out there.
[00:20:58] That might bring it back.
[00:21:00] Right.
[00:21:01] Now we got to deal with now because he apologized.
[00:21:04] We stuck with Quavo or Chris Brown.
[00:21:06] He said, I'm saying it's like, and what?
[00:21:08] Who came out?
[00:21:12] Oh, that was that was who?
[00:21:14] Oh yeah, that was straight.
[00:21:16] That was a Chris Brown with that whole album.
[00:21:19] We think a week whatever.
[00:21:21] But like, didn't Kendrick come back with something on
[00:21:25] somebody like did he come back on Drake or something?
[00:21:28] Drake come back on somebody with some lines?
[00:21:30] Yeah, I think Kendrick came back on Drake and then
[00:21:33] everybody was waiting for his response to Cole.
[00:21:41] He didn't do it because Cole apologized.
[00:21:43] So yeah, I just for some of me is like,
[00:21:48] I appreciate the growth.
[00:21:50] I appreciate the mental wellness that it takes to be
[00:21:53] able to say, Hey, I'm not in this.
[00:21:56] But then I'm also upset because you leave us with people
[00:21:59] who don't have that kind of mental awareness,
[00:22:01] nor do they have the skill to make an interesting battle.
[00:22:05] They, you know, it's like, I don't want to,
[00:22:09] I don't want to hear people yelling at each other about
[00:22:11] their ex-girlfriends and, and smacking each other and
[00:22:15] like, like be creative.
[00:22:17] Say something that's going to make me go, Wow,
[00:22:20] this dude really thought like creatively.
[00:22:24] What I loved about battles, you know,
[00:22:27] one of my favorite rap battles, you know,
[00:22:29] which wasn't a very long battle was cannabis and LL.
[00:22:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:33] Right? Because, because it was two people who I thought
[00:22:39] specialized in battling.
[00:22:41] Like if you don't know, I mean LL is definitely a
[00:22:43] lover boy and all that, but like he made a living
[00:22:46] off battling early on.
[00:22:48] Like that's all he did.
[00:22:50] You know what I mean?
[00:22:51] Mama said not to go out and stuff.
[00:22:52] That's who he was.
[00:22:53] So cannabis is a dope lyricist.
[00:22:55] And so it may LL who hadn't been making that kind of music
[00:22:59] anymore, have to go back there.
[00:23:01] Right?
[00:23:02] And he pulled it out of him.
[00:23:04] You know what I'm saying?
[00:23:05] So much so that they killed cannabis career.
[00:23:07] Like you probably know what I'm talking about.
[00:23:09] But like it was dope because it pulled LL out of
[00:23:12] that like pop thing back into like, no,
[00:23:15] I'm a monster.
[00:23:16] Don't make me go back here.
[00:23:17] Right.
[00:23:18] You know what I'm saying?
[00:23:19] And that's what I'm hoping to see out of battling
[00:23:21] that it pulls that out of people,
[00:23:23] not pulls down the genre by us like making rap
[00:23:29] battles into reality TV.
[00:23:30] That's what I feel like.
[00:23:31] I mean, the fact that the,
[00:23:38] I don't know the ebb and flow of one's career.
[00:23:42] I mean these artists we talk about like Kendrick Drake
[00:23:46] and K Cole, they career still solid.
[00:23:49] You know, it's not like they needed a battle to spark
[00:23:53] nothing to bring something back.
[00:23:56] You know, I don't know necessarily where Chris Brown
[00:24:00] may be in that piece and R&B and R&B piece.
[00:24:04] Chris Brown piece seemed like it's a lot more personal.
[00:24:07] Personal.
[00:24:08] Like it's like, it ain't even so.
[00:24:10] We did a whole album on like weak link or whatever.
[00:24:13] He just made a whole, like you just went to the studio
[00:24:15] at the crib and just threw it out there
[00:24:17] and paid for it.
[00:24:18] Like there's something more to that piece.
[00:24:22] And that's where it can get beyond the artistic part of it.
[00:24:27] And I think when you look at verses,
[00:24:29] like you're gonna get the verses series, right?
[00:24:31] All the verses that were going back and forth.
[00:24:33] You had Earth, Wind and Fire and who else is going
[00:24:37] to get the Earth and Wind and Fire?
[00:24:38] But he had groups that were doing things like,
[00:24:40] and they were singing these songs
[00:24:41] and other singing these songs
[00:24:42] and they was just battling their own music, right?
[00:24:46] Being able to say, okay, that is the jam.
[00:24:48] Oh, that is the jam.
[00:24:49] Man, it's a tie.
[00:24:50] Y'all both killed it.
[00:24:51] I can't, you know, except for like something happened
[00:24:54] when some of the artists they ran off to stay
[00:24:56] and something like one of the verses seemed
[00:24:58] like something happened.
[00:24:59] But I think the need to go back to the root,
[00:25:04] go back to the creativity of it all, man.
[00:25:07] And I don't know, you know,
[00:25:09] back in the day in Christian hip hop,
[00:25:11] you had a ton of rats.
[00:25:14] A ton of rats was being dissed, man.
[00:25:16] They was really being dissed.
[00:25:18] Absolutely.
[00:25:19] But they would be true to the culture.
[00:25:21] That's the thing about Christians, man,
[00:25:24] is that we either going to be whitewashing something down
[00:25:27] and make it make something fit into a Christian box
[00:25:30] or we're going to be complimentary of it,
[00:25:33] serve the people who are in that space
[00:25:35] right where they are
[00:25:37] and not allow to be deluded.
[00:25:42] And those who've grown up in that culture
[00:25:44] are going to appreciate the fact that you met me right there
[00:25:46] in that space, you know,
[00:25:47] to take it with God we're having to be
[00:25:48] or to learn or teach me about God in those spaces that way.
[00:25:52] You know?
[00:25:53] And I think, you know, context matters so much
[00:25:58] that to be honest with you in those moments
[00:26:00] it was a perceived Christian box.
[00:26:02] I air-cored that, right?
[00:26:03] Like what we were calling Christian
[00:26:05] was actually white evangelical
[00:26:07] which did not understand hip hop
[00:26:10] at its core at all, right?
[00:26:12] So what you see is
[00:26:14] tunnel rats taking their lived experience,
[00:26:17] their relationship with God
[00:26:20] into spaces where people value
[00:26:23] lyricism, creativity, artistry
[00:26:26] so much so that they could bring
[00:26:28] on the same level as everybody else in the room
[00:26:30] that same lyricism, creativity, artistry
[00:26:33] and be able to move in spaces
[00:26:35] that Christians could not another time, right?
[00:26:38] Rather than being supported by the accountants
[00:26:41] in Christian Hip Hop, they were being dissed by them
[00:26:43] and that was a part that was always so rough for me.
[00:26:46] You know?
[00:26:47] And I feel like if we can,
[00:26:49] even if we don't move in the same way,
[00:26:52] you know what I mean?
[00:26:53] That's a bigger diss to me
[00:26:54] than any rap battle they were in
[00:26:56] was you dissing them on your songs
[00:26:59] because you talking about
[00:27:00] they not talking about Jesus enough
[00:27:02] or they wasting their time battling, right?
[00:27:04] Yeah, that's not beef.
[00:27:06] We all saying point S when I call that beef.
[00:27:09] You all saying that?
[00:27:10] Yo, we're going to be right back man.
[00:27:12] Church on the Block.
[00:27:13] Real talk about hip hop, the church on the street
[00:27:16] was beef.
[00:27:17] Now you know, we were talking about beef
[00:27:19] as cash wrapping and we got the Taylor Swift joint
[00:27:22] going off on Kim Kardashian
[00:27:24] and then we got, you know...
[00:27:27] Crackdown and Klaibow.
[00:27:28] Klaibow, you know, and hip hop,
[00:27:31] you know, we talk about beef
[00:27:33] and I'm sure there's some beef
[00:27:35] that's happened on the street.
[00:27:36] I know there's a clip out way back
[00:27:38] with Biggie was on the street rapping
[00:27:41] and even on some of the history
[00:27:43] where the dude came around
[00:27:44] and thought he could beat Biggie
[00:27:45] on the rapper tip
[00:27:46] and Biggie is just crushing.
[00:27:48] The dude was mad, just walking away.
[00:27:51] I mean, hip hop is about a lot of it
[00:27:54] you know, in some regard
[00:27:55] the African American male machismo, right?
[00:27:58] Because a lot of it has not been there.
[00:28:00] It's been sucked out, taken away,
[00:28:02] ripped up, suspect
[00:28:04] and then resold back to you.
[00:28:07] And so when a man gets up and says this
[00:28:09] as an African American man
[00:28:11] and he's winning and he's dominating
[00:28:12] it's like I'm taking my pride back.
[00:28:15] So I get it in theory,
[00:28:16] I get it philosophically,
[00:28:17] I get it culturally
[00:28:19] but when it goes too far, man,
[00:28:21] when it goes too far
[00:28:23] you know, it's not like that area of art
[00:28:26] life imitating art in that regard
[00:28:29] when Mugs talking about what they're going to do
[00:28:31] how they're going to do to you
[00:28:32] even rappers and folks got to understand
[00:28:34] when the MC is talking about
[00:28:36] you know, I pull out my Glock
[00:28:39] and shoot you on an album
[00:28:41] or he's talking about his skill set.
[00:28:43] Now some cast me, some cast me
[00:28:46] you know, they may be strapped at the club
[00:28:48] or doing whatever
[00:28:49] but in a context of it being
[00:28:51] like my skills are so cold
[00:28:53] when I pull this Glock back
[00:28:54] you're going to shoot your whole family
[00:28:55] one bullet down that
[00:28:57] and it's about that imagery
[00:28:59] in that context.
[00:29:00] You know, I don't think everything should be
[00:29:02] always about a gun shooting somebody in summer car
[00:29:04] but you know, I'm going to shoot it
[00:29:06] anybody going to win a battle
[00:29:08] I got a bow and arrow
[00:29:09] I pulled it back
[00:29:10] I shot it
[00:29:12] gave you a heart attack
[00:29:13] like what?
[00:29:14] What?
[00:29:15] That might be cold though
[00:29:17] I was cold
[00:29:18] your lyrics need guns
[00:29:20] minds is bow and arrows
[00:29:21] you shooting their cars
[00:29:22] I'm knocking out the sparrow
[00:29:24] you know what I'm saying
[00:29:25] like you see
[00:29:26] like you got to get over there
[00:29:28] you have to pull some freestyle before we go
[00:29:30] you had to pull some freestyle
[00:29:32] out of the way you go man
[00:29:36] this you funded up though
[00:29:38] like as we started talking like
[00:29:40] I think talking about the biggie
[00:29:43] like that mid 90s era
[00:29:45] is a good way to kind of bring
[00:29:47] this idea of when things go too far though
[00:29:49] because
[00:29:50] you know, we all remember that classic
[00:29:53] Source Hip Hop Awards
[00:29:55] when
[00:29:56] East Coast and West Coast beefers
[00:29:58] at its height
[00:29:59] and should not get on the stage
[00:30:01] and talk about if you tired of the producer
[00:30:03] dancing on linear radio
[00:30:04] or dancing on linear video
[00:30:06] coming to that throat
[00:30:08] right
[00:30:09] yeah, yeah
[00:30:10] you could feel the tension between
[00:30:12] East Coast and West Coast stuff with
[00:30:14] the way pot issues
[00:30:16] which were
[00:30:17] this is why I say
[00:30:18] you got to know when you've crossed the line
[00:30:20] because pot issues were
[00:30:22] actual trauma
[00:30:24] from like being shot multiple times
[00:30:26] being robbed in the studio
[00:30:28] like, you know, he was facing
[00:30:30] some real trauma
[00:30:32] and you know
[00:30:34] rather than like
[00:30:36] like the mental help he needed
[00:30:38] people fed into it
[00:30:40] right, right
[00:30:41] you know
[00:30:42] and
[00:30:43] it became this whole thing then biggie
[00:30:45] drops you shot you
[00:30:46] which was already recorded before
[00:30:48] the shooting even happens
[00:30:50] and it just
[00:30:51] it elevates everything
[00:30:53] and that was West Coast
[00:30:55] it wasn't just about artists anymore
[00:30:57] it was
[00:30:58] if you was from East Coast to the West Coast
[00:31:00] and that's why I was glad I was from Chicago
[00:31:02] going that time
[00:31:03] but they genuinely
[00:31:05] did not like it
[00:31:06] genuinely
[00:31:07] you know what I mean
[00:31:08] and it cost both two-park
[00:31:10] and biggie their lives
[00:31:11] you know what I mean
[00:31:12] you know it's kids with no fathers
[00:31:14] because of this
[00:31:15] wives with no husbands
[00:31:16] and mothers with no sons
[00:31:18] you know and so I just
[00:31:20] I want to point out that when it goes from
[00:31:22] beyond lyrics
[00:31:23] to like actual
[00:31:25] like hate
[00:31:26] and
[00:31:27] like pain on each other and violence
[00:31:30] that's the part
[00:31:31] that's not battle
[00:31:32] yeah
[00:31:33] and that's what scared me about some of the stuff I hear
[00:31:36] in what's supposed to be battles today
[00:31:38] it doesn't sound
[00:31:40] creative and lyrical
[00:31:41] it sounds like
[00:31:42] anger, hatred
[00:31:44] and malice
[00:31:45] and
[00:31:46] that's what leads to
[00:31:47] what we saw in the mid 90s
[00:31:49] which was very very scary
[00:31:51] and I think led to
[00:31:52] a lot of people wonder how we got to the get jiggy dance
[00:31:55] like
[00:31:56] you know like money flashy suit era
[00:31:58] it's because we came straight out of that like
[00:32:01] oh we ain't on that no more
[00:32:02] like I ain't trying to die
[00:32:04] right right right
[00:32:05] so that's just part
[00:32:06] you know so
[00:32:08] I just hope that people recognize
[00:32:11] that like there's some danger there
[00:32:14] I mean Phil was talking about before we jump back on
[00:32:16] that we saw that in the Christian room too Phil
[00:32:18] you know you were talking about that
[00:32:20] even
[00:32:22] the way in which
[00:32:24] fans of various artists
[00:32:27] those artists that brought you life
[00:32:29] brought you salvation
[00:32:31] when their situation went
[00:32:33] awry
[00:32:34] or their life went a different way
[00:32:36] you battled them
[00:32:37] monks was on
[00:32:38] I wasn't involved in listening
[00:32:40] and watching
[00:32:41] all kind of social media stuff
[00:32:43] when different artists
[00:32:44] had complications in their own
[00:32:46] freaking human life
[00:32:47] that we and or those in it
[00:32:50] I knew the cast I reached out to them
[00:32:52] but there was no real human touch
[00:32:54] nobody pursued them
[00:32:56] in that broader community
[00:32:57] like a kindre
[00:32:59] you know we sorry man we want to come
[00:33:01] and walk with you because
[00:33:03] this thing we do
[00:33:06] is not who we are
[00:33:07] and who we are when that stuff comes out
[00:33:09] whether it's foul or righteous
[00:33:11] is the who we are
[00:33:13] miss of our own humanity
[00:33:15] that's the stuff that God wants of us
[00:33:17] right in the midst of that
[00:33:19] and so folks battled their own artists
[00:33:21] because they felt
[00:33:23] they fell and I fell
[00:33:25] and you let me astray
[00:33:27] man you just
[00:33:29] and then you want to cut them up
[00:33:31] and blame them
[00:33:33] for something that
[00:33:35] you know if your book was open about your stuff
[00:33:37] we all would probably be like man
[00:33:39] you don't even
[00:33:40] I want to eat in the same house with you
[00:33:42] from what you've been
[00:33:44] doing and acting and things like that
[00:33:46] and so that's
[00:33:48] you know where those
[00:33:50] I'm just going to another level of battle
[00:33:52] as it pertains to lifestyle stuff
[00:33:54] that creates that level of frustration
[00:33:56] let alone then
[00:33:58] judgments about different artists
[00:34:00] battling
[00:34:02] what that artist is or isn't
[00:34:04] doing insane Christ said man
[00:34:06] the disciples wrote up to him
[00:34:08] it was about to start a battle
[00:34:10] yo these dudes healing in Jesus name
[00:34:12] he said hey stop y'all don't know how to heal
[00:34:14] y'all ain't with us
[00:34:16] Jesus said fool
[00:34:18] like he said what
[00:34:20] man if they not against us they for us
[00:34:22] like the fact that
[00:34:24] they are not
[00:34:26] rapping the whole
[00:34:28] book of Leviticus and hyper fundamentalism
[00:34:30] and
[00:34:32] coming with you know
[00:34:34] Exodus and Genesis 32
[00:34:36] connecting the two dots
[00:34:38] and you know, consistentiation
[00:34:40] going in with
[00:34:42] now they not worthy
[00:34:44] they lying
[00:34:46] they not bringing the truth
[00:34:48] so you got those kind of
[00:34:50] internal
[00:34:52] you know kind of battles that happen that way
[00:34:54] but
[00:34:56] that person being true to who God calls him
[00:34:58] Deutre Bonhoeffer said man I think
[00:35:00] in the book about community
[00:35:02] he's like
[00:35:04] basically
[00:35:06] all you know in the Bible is prayer
[00:35:08] don't worry about studying the entire Bible
[00:35:10] just pray
[00:35:12] prayer will lead you to something else that you'll grow
[00:35:14] to understand the rest of the word
[00:35:16] or what God will lead you to
[00:35:18] you know the book of Genesis chapter 5
[00:35:20] and you know that and read that and study that
[00:35:22] and then read don't be so
[00:35:24] enamored or caught up by everybody else saying
[00:35:26] oh you got to study all this
[00:35:28] like that stuff will come but
[00:35:30] if you rap about happy joy
[00:35:32] joy this is what you're rapping about
[00:35:34] Jesus make you Jesus will heal you
[00:35:36] God we got to trust the fact that
[00:35:38] God is bigger than those words
[00:35:40] and God may take that person who needed that
[00:35:42] and lead them to a full
[00:35:44] grasp of who Christ is and that other person
[00:35:46] as well so I think that
[00:35:48] there's a sense of to me
[00:35:50] especially when Christian
[00:35:52] comes to Christian in general
[00:35:54] we got to control God and God got to look like this
[00:35:56] and the people of God got to look
[00:35:58] and if they're out of that control box
[00:36:00] I don't know what to do with that
[00:36:02] oh my gosh
[00:36:04] you know what I'm saying
[00:36:06] yes yes
[00:36:08] and that's what's dangerous
[00:36:10] so we are
[00:36:12] killing like physically
[00:36:14] killing each other but we're assassinating
[00:36:16] each other's character
[00:36:18] killing each other's like ministry
[00:36:20] philosophy so much so that
[00:36:22] people don't even want to be like we don't sound
[00:36:24] like brothers or sisters in Christ
[00:36:26] we don't sound like we're on the same mission
[00:36:28] we don't sound like we're going for the same mission
[00:36:30] and that's what I was messing me up man
[00:36:32] I was a dude especially
[00:36:34] you know in the late 90s or 2000s
[00:36:36] as people were starting to burgeon
[00:36:38] and new artists were coming
[00:36:40] like yo if you was
[00:36:42] tunnel rats
[00:36:44] what's Maris ill
[00:36:46] I'm just trying to think of
[00:36:48] cast that like
[00:36:50] people would probably say
[00:36:52] new breed
[00:36:54] these guys who were like
[00:36:56] yeah outside of the box
[00:36:58] they did things different you know what I mean
[00:37:00] necessarily don't sound like
[00:37:02] that's what Corey Redd was
[00:37:04] they were going to sound like everybody else
[00:37:08] those people
[00:37:10] I needed to support them as well because they were part of the body of Christ
[00:37:12] so I was so eclectic in my music choices
[00:37:14] because I'm like
[00:37:16] when I was in the world I was listening
[00:37:18] like you know this kind of
[00:37:20] but in the body of Christ
[00:37:22] I am because they don't understand the message
[00:37:24] they trying to get the message of Christ
[00:37:26] right there so it just seemed like
[00:37:28] I was broad in my horizons as far as
[00:37:30] hip-hop is concerned
[00:37:32] versus like causing this marginalization
[00:37:34] or this excommunication of certain people
[00:37:36] because they didn't think did I gravitate
[00:37:38] to the like more
[00:37:40] you know like
[00:37:42] theological all that stuff
[00:37:44] yes not because it's what I needed
[00:37:46] actually it's because their style
[00:37:48] matched what I liked
[00:37:50] in the world like that's what it was
[00:37:52] you know what I'm saying
[00:37:54] what's this new thing looking like a Christian
[00:37:56] I'm like probably because they remind me
[00:37:58] of what you're talking about
[00:38:00] that's what it was
[00:38:02] and then because they were my favorite group
[00:38:04] like what they were spitting started to be
[00:38:06] what I gravitated to but I needed
[00:38:08] the balance of a ton of rock
[00:38:10] I needed the balance of the Holy Red
[00:38:12] I needed the balance of the Gospel Gangsters
[00:38:14] to remind me that that's not the only way
[00:38:16] you can live out your home in the body
[00:38:18] of Christ so it doesn't
[00:38:20] be about missing each other but I do feel like
[00:38:22] in those days man it was
[00:38:24] you the orb boy you had to pick a side
[00:38:26] and all that
[00:38:28] battle man assassinate each other's character
[00:38:30] was just making it so
[00:38:32] it can go too far y'all
[00:38:34] especially when it comes
[00:38:36] to kill somebody
[00:38:38] or hurt somebody or cause some harm to people
[00:38:40] you know what I'm saying
[00:38:42] and then if you got folks behind you
[00:38:44] yeah that's what I'm saying
[00:38:46] they're the ones that
[00:38:48] they can get you even more caught up
[00:38:50] it gets
[00:38:52] you follow those clips and then that's what I'm saying
[00:38:54] there has to be a
[00:38:56] J. Cole commitment
[00:38:58] and movement like you know what they're saying
[00:39:00] where it's gotta go and this is where I'm not at
[00:39:02] you know and the boldness to take
[00:39:04] whatever is gonna come
[00:39:06] he's still getting the checks
[00:39:08] it ain't gonna hurt his pocket
[00:39:10] and he still got bars
[00:39:12] he's still cold you know what I'm saying
[00:39:14] I'm still sitting here in my studio right now
[00:39:16] with this here
[00:39:18] why because it's man cold
[00:39:20] you know what I'm saying
[00:39:22] you know what I'm saying
[00:39:24] I didn't understand why he did it
[00:39:26] but I still know he got bars
[00:39:28] and that's what people gotta recognize
[00:39:30] your skill
[00:39:32] and in the Christian realm your calling
[00:39:34] what God is calling
[00:39:36] is bigger
[00:39:38] is bigger than whatever else you may not agree with
[00:39:40] or understand
[00:39:42] I want to say this
[00:39:44] I speak specifically to my Christian brothers sisters
[00:39:46] I hope you all hear me man
[00:39:48] it's always your responsibility
[00:39:50] to correct
[00:39:52] your brother sister in Christ
[00:39:54] it's not always
[00:39:56] I'm not saying they don't need correction
[00:39:58] I'm saying it may not be your
[00:40:00] responsibility
[00:40:02] so you gotta pay attention to whether God has given you
[00:40:04] the grace and giving you
[00:40:06] the calling and giving you the desire
[00:40:08] to hold somebody accountable for where they are
[00:40:10] it will just sound like
[00:40:12] hate me
[00:40:14] it'll sound like you
[00:40:16] if you're not called to do it
[00:40:18] so yeah don't think just because
[00:40:20] you're on the grill what they're saying
[00:40:22] or how they're doing it
[00:40:24] that's what I hate about social media
[00:40:26] sometimes
[00:40:28] we'll be like
[00:40:30] real talk
[00:40:32] the real issue is
[00:40:34] what's the greater good
[00:40:36] in the kingdom of God
[00:40:38] and the choice you're about to make
[00:40:40] are you getting glorified
[00:40:42] or is Christ being glorified in the midst of that
[00:40:44] we're talking about this
[00:40:46] we're talking about battle and we're talking about our spiritual
[00:40:48] battle as artists and in the
[00:40:50] artistry in this world man
[00:40:52] this is Pastor Phil, we're Pastor Jay
[00:40:54] Church on the Block
[00:40:56] man we're gonna be with you next week
[00:40:58] next Sunday we're gonna say Jay
[00:41:02] remember what beef is
[00:41:04] it ain't this
[00:41:06] remember beef
[00:41:08] and we're talking about beef you eating
[00:41:10] right right
[00:41:12] yes and we don't fight against flesh and blood
[00:41:14] yeah we don't fight against flesh and blood
[00:41:16] yo stay with us
[00:41:18] man next week we'll talk about some more hip hop
[00:41:20] we're gonna get some female MCs
[00:41:22] we're gonna do some freestyle on the show
[00:41:24] man stay with us church on the block channel
[00:41:26] 140 series XM, Pastor Jay, Pastor Phil
[00:41:28] yo let me drop these bars on you real quick
[00:41:30] you ever think about porcupines
[00:41:32] like porcupines got
[00:41:34] 30,000 quills
[00:41:36] like they are always
[00:41:38] on point
[00:41:40] to poke you
[00:41:42] but some kind of way the porcupines
[00:41:44] still have babies
[00:41:46] and they have babies after babies after babies
[00:41:48] well how do they have babies with these 30,000
[00:41:50] or more
[00:41:52] quills
[00:41:54] they have to stand up on all two feet
[00:41:56] rub belly to belly
[00:41:58] that's how they mate and that's how
[00:42:00] they stay warm they're saying
[00:42:02] our survival
[00:42:04] is that we must go over and above
[00:42:06] and beyond these porcupines
[00:42:08] we must go over and above and beyond
[00:42:10] these things that we're naturally
[00:42:12] instinctively or desiring to do
[00:42:14] because the life
[00:42:16] that we must live has to carry on
[00:42:18] so it is with you and I
[00:42:20] though there are battles in hip hop, there are battles in the church
[00:42:22] there are battles amongst believers
[00:42:24] we gotta remember what scripture says that love is patient
[00:42:26] love is kind
[00:42:28] love is not envious or boastful
[00:42:30] or arrogant or rude
[00:42:32] it does not insist on its own way
[00:42:34] it is not irritable
[00:42:36] it does not rejoice in wrongdoing
[00:42:38] but rejoices in the truth
[00:42:40] it bears all things, believes all things
[00:42:42] hopes in all things, endures all things
[00:42:44] y'all let us be like
[00:42:46] porcupines man and stand on all two
[00:42:48] and lay down the beef
[00:42:50] y'all pass the field
[00:42:52] check yourself before you wreck yourself
[00:42:54] that's that