689. How Can Hip Hop Culture Enhance Church Ministry and Community Impact?

[00:00:00] You're on Pastor Phil. Welcome to Church on the Block. Real talk about hip hop, church

[00:00:17] and the streets with my great co-host Pastor Jay and Ruck Boy on Holy Culture Radio.

[00:00:24] Here's XM. Yo, what's going on? You are on the right channel. That's right.

[00:00:31] Here's XM Channel 140 Church on the Block. Holy Culture Radio. We are back at your happy

[00:00:36] new year and everything is of the second Sunday of the year, man. You can even believe that

[00:00:41] we are like 14 days in a new year. I hope your 14 days have been fruitful or if they've

[00:00:49] been challenging, guess what? They've been building you up so the rest of your year is going

[00:00:52] to be smooth. Pastor Jay. And so being able to know that there's going to be a light at

[00:00:59] the end of the light. You know what I mean? But don't take what is happening right now

[00:01:05] at this beginning of the year. Super spiritualize it and be like, oh, I'm going to see this

[00:01:09] the rest of my year. No, no, no, don't do that. Just walk boldly in the midst of whatever

[00:01:14] else is going on in your life. Good, bad or indifferent or challenging. What are the

[00:01:18] case? Maybe don't overthink it. Don't underthink it. Just walk in it. You know what I'm saying

[00:01:23] because some of the times we'll get stuck in that one spot and we're looking to see everything

[00:01:26] is orange, but everything ain't really orange. You just took that one orange perspective

[00:01:30] and you ran with it. That's my little thought for the beginning of this show. What's going

[00:01:35] on everybody? We here with our great host man. What's up brothers? What's going on

[00:01:39] with y'all, man? Well, you're trying to get deep right off the back of the show feeling

[00:01:43] nobody ready for that man. I don't know if you're talking about the whole world orange.

[00:01:47] What's up guys? Glad to be on the show. It's all glad to be back 24 church on the block.

[00:01:54] You know what we doing. Yeah, it was good. This is what DJ Rutgers a fish your pie as they

[00:01:59] would say. It got a happy two years to you all. Let's do this. That's what I'm talking

[00:02:04] about. That's what I'm talking about. Fish your pie. Fish your pie. You know, we had

[00:02:09] a great trip on the show with us today. Young brother man who, man, we just connected from

[00:02:15] jump street. It was almost as if we were we grew up together. You know what I mean? In some

[00:02:20] of ours, we did because of the kind of connection with the neighborhood and stuff like that.

[00:02:23] But we got a great brother man and and I mean the impact that he's already been making

[00:02:29] and has continued to make is always blowing me away with the book with people who don't look

[00:02:37] like him. Don't act like him. Don't come from what he's come from and how he's gotten

[00:02:41] in that world to help train school up walk through some things with people because of his

[00:02:46] own journey and his own impact. I'm God is using them in the powerful way. I want to introduce

[00:02:50] to some of us into other our brother, our friend, Reverend Dr. Pastor Troy Evans. Listen up,

[00:02:57] Troy. What's up man? What up, so man? I mean, thank you all so much for having me. This

[00:03:01] is on on the code.

[00:03:04] Bless you. Yeah, I mean, we grateful. You were a legend man. You were a legend man and

[00:03:09] the work you've done man being able to just any and from my perspective, man, you've

[00:03:16] done the work so powerfully and humbly that it's almost like like when people want to get

[00:03:24] a diamond necklace somewhere, it's only stores somewhere or they want to get some agnog

[00:03:29] here. It's the only agnog if there's one store they will find a beaten path to it. That's

[00:03:33] how your, your, your ministry has been to me as I've seen this like what is going on

[00:03:38] all that way? How do we get over that way and how do we replicate that and just a move

[00:03:43] of it has been so beautifully organic and beautifully, impactfully organic. That's

[00:03:49] a new phrase beautifully in 2024. I said we're coming. And so I want to just have you

[00:03:54] to share a little bit about your story, man. And what God has done through your work,

[00:04:00] talking about your book as well as you know, planting the church and then passionate that

[00:04:05] baton or two young brother and wife who you mentor to that space. So bring it down. Tell

[00:04:11] us where you from all day. Yeah, bring it down Troy. I always say I was a water guy.

[00:04:16] Rappers became a man in Detroit and then culturally raised by castles of cars. I'm just like

[00:04:22] all over the place. Right? You know what I mean? So it's, um, well, it's so good to get

[00:04:27] so that again, so go back, go back and say that again. So I was born and ground wrapped

[00:04:32] with this became a man in Detroit and culturally raised by castles from Chicago. So I'm

[00:04:38] going through now. All the way through what I love that you know, I think it was John

[00:04:47] Elbridge says that says that your greatest passion often comes from your deepest hurt.

[00:04:51] The greatest passion often comes from your deepest hurt. And for me, it was just true. You

[00:04:57] know, when I was out there clowning and everything, you go my thing, it was just like man,

[00:05:03] I wish there was a place that that cast would yeah, you know, for me to be involved with

[00:05:11] things. I understood structure and organization that that was that was in discipline. And

[00:05:16] I understood that was tell me, give me some direction. Man, let me in a door. You know,

[00:05:20] I was saying, let me let me in so we can release the south side. So after I went to

[00:05:27] was in Detroit doing my thing, started, I went to a church. I'd send them a lot of the

[00:05:33] Christ, but then went to a church and the pastor got up and said, yo, you're going to have

[00:05:39] to have to, you got to have an army full of young castles and he said, yo, I got to go

[00:05:42] wait for me to die. You know, 74, you get your face in the poop. And you better find

[00:05:46] your ministry. And so I sat down to a homeless shelter in Detroit and planted my first church

[00:05:52] in my 20s, you know, and I just started doing, you know, pre-play for those people, you

[00:05:57] know, 23 years old, just doing ministry man. And as we saw ended up falling in love with

[00:06:09] people. I didn't love people a lot, but that called me to start to like people and

[00:06:15] the real people. And so then I opened an IT company, made a lot of money and then I had

[00:06:24] to be there. So I went to went back to Grand Rapids and started to start to plant my second

[00:06:31] church and did that. And then middle of that my nephew was murdered. And then that

[00:06:39] your brother brought to the house actually. And Grand Rapids? Yeah, yeah, he was murdered

[00:06:46] and they never found his killer. But though they had to think about it like, yo, so if I

[00:06:52] didn't exist, and I'm his uncle, but if I did exist, then where would he go for church?

[00:06:59] If this is what we do, they'd exist where would he go for church? And it just took me

[00:07:04] up. I got to be with the church, you know what I'm saying? And I couldn't find like what

[00:07:09] that looks like. So we ended up that and some other things happened. We ended up posing

[00:07:14] that small, small church, do a big thing for Jesus kind of thing. We ended up doing

[00:07:20] that. And I went in high eighties. Make a long story short. We ended up connected

[00:07:25] with this mega church. And the deal was with he was real. And then it took me out of that

[00:07:33] wing. They didn't exploit me when I was hurt. I had a couple of talents and they didn't

[00:07:37] exploit me. They just allowed me to heal. And then one day I just told them the idea,

[00:07:42] I said, I met this guy some strange dude in Laundel. They feel you know, and his church.

[00:07:49] And they did what I think I did to be doing, you know? And and then I laid out literally

[00:07:56] what I knew of the house, you know, what I see produced. And then they said, tell me

[00:08:01] more. And it's predominantly white, the nomination. And I went into this meeting. No joke.

[00:08:07] I had man. I just worked for the America Red Cross time. But now I actually departmented

[00:08:11] some corporate out. You know what I'm saying? But I want you to meet them. I was like,

[00:08:15] you're going to turn me down. But I've been like, you know, see how I'm on my, I was,

[00:08:18] I was like, I was like, I was doing what I put it up with it. I'm on the York accent.

[00:08:24] What up? You know, you know, you know, I said, go ahead and put them away. Like if you

[00:08:30] can't see me, you know, I'm not going to be able to receive the cast and I'm talking.

[00:08:34] And they're right. Tell me more. So we ended up planning to the as church with with the two

[00:08:42] supporting churches behind us, which is the edge of the acronym. We suck at 3,297 things.

[00:08:49] But we think you good at these four, which is the evangelism discipleship, spiritual growth,

[00:08:54] the holistic empowerment. We should bring them in. Then we sit them down and up, then

[00:08:58] we send them out. That's the solution. All we preach about is all that's all we do. So

[00:09:01] we started to do that. And that's, that's what we basically live it out like man, a place

[00:09:06] that I would like to have had when I was a shorty and a place for my men of view to come.

[00:09:11] That's what I, that's what we do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when did you start that? What

[00:09:17] was the, the movement of that? I mean, it started from your heart going to way back and

[00:09:23] all the things that were going on. But like actually jumping up. Yeah. So 2008, we

[00:09:29] just started to, to just the traditional church planning process 2008 and we lost in 2000.

[00:09:35] And man, that's a nice building. That's a nice building. A bit of a nice spot. That's

[00:09:40] a nice spot. You know, we started off in like a spot one way in and one way out. Black walls

[00:09:47] everywhere. And then we loved it. And then we ended up off as a spot.

[00:09:52] Okay. When I came up, was it still in the other church? Because y'all were meeting in

[00:09:58] the like one of the one of the partnering churches right before? No, that was our spot.

[00:10:04] Was it like an event or something like that? No, no, that's the spot we had just bought.

[00:10:09] We had just purchased that building. Okay. Okay. Okay. That was cool. That was cool.

[00:10:14] So like what, what do you think? Like, I mean, I know you mentioned about, um, it was

[00:10:20] in the nephew, right? You nephew who was killed. Yep. What do you, um, like folks thinking

[00:10:27] about this kind of kind of effort, right? To to dive in the ministry and looking at the

[00:10:31] church, like, like they may see it, um, you know, in their own world, in their own space.

[00:10:37] Um, and say man, there's gotta be something different. Um, in addition to that motivation

[00:10:42] from, uh, from family and the murder of that situation, was the, uh, I mean, we know

[00:10:48] what was the little goodness of that. But like, there's a level of stain power and a level

[00:10:53] of faithfulness and a level of edge that, that has to almost be in a person, like whether

[00:11:00] you're going to start a business or whether you're going to start a ministry or not for pocket,

[00:11:05] um, that is that overrides all the talk or on dry times and things like that. Um, but

[00:11:13] sometimes it motivates, sometimes that motivation that like, like especially around ministry,

[00:11:19] I cannot, there's a generation out of here that I really, um, want to see, um, led to the

[00:11:24] Lord. I mean, um, I maybe hit on some of the same things that were there for you. But

[00:11:29] what, what was it for you in those space? In addition to, um, the motivation of, yeah,

[00:11:35] if I think going into business with a, uh, with a solid, um, uh, I thought it became

[00:11:41] an engineer, I opened him up a, uh, IT staff and, um, you know, it just had a set of stuff

[00:11:47] from several other companies after that. And, um, I think I was really thankful that I

[00:11:51] had a, a, a solid Christ following soldier that the type of me in business. I mean, one

[00:11:58] of the, I forget his lack of words, but basically he's, he's saying, if you want to take, if

[00:12:02] you established a business, chase the money is going to sell you. But if you, if you're

[00:12:07] established based on meeting the need in another stuff, right? The whole, the whole idea

[00:12:11] is like, in that's the premise of any business heart, you, every good business person would

[00:12:15] know that. It's like, so what is it? What is the need that you're meeting? And for me,

[00:12:19] it was doing that, but I started sort of planting tools that are, I'm a business man. I'm

[00:12:24] a, I'm a, I'm a doughboy became business man. They'd be, you know, they became pastors,

[00:12:28] right? So it's like for me, it's like, let's make sure we, let's make sure we, we love

[00:12:33] people. Make sure that we, that man, that's an impact these people's lives. So I need to

[00:12:38] be close to the dirt and just start every time you see me feel I'm, we're on the yoke

[00:12:42] act. You know that I'm, I'm not, I need to be close with these cast that are, that are

[00:12:45] the most greedy. So that I can remember like, oh, you know, this is, this is why I'm doing

[00:12:50] that. And that, that, that, that, that's actually me saying it keeps me, um, keeps me, kept

[00:12:55] me in the fight. I believe. Right. Yeah. I mean, there is, there is, um, an edge to

[00:13:02] that. There's an edge to that. I, you know, in a foreign guards to how, um, how, how folks

[00:13:09] would be like chasing a particular paradigm of what they believe is going to sustain church

[00:13:16] and faith and things like that. And after a while, that stuff just can suck the life out

[00:13:21] of you, right? But in the midst of that, um, other motivation that there is, there is, um,

[00:13:29] you know, there's something more. There's something more than it. Um, brothers, what are

[00:13:32] y'all? What, what are some thoughts you'll have? I mean, past the J U, you're pastoring

[00:13:36] them in passion for a minute and in your, in your world and in your, in your perspective,

[00:13:40] uh, what do you thought? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so glad you're on the joy, man. Yeah.

[00:13:44] I think just real quick for me, the question would be, you know, as you sink back over, um,

[00:13:51] what you wish you would have seen or experienced the other journeys of faith, you know, because I

[00:13:57] tell people long before they have a connection in church, they have some connection to faith and

[00:14:01] some kind of faith journey. What is it as a pastor you're trying to embody a show, uh,

[00:14:07] young folks who are, you know, who connect to you and what the work you're doing that you didn't see

[00:14:12] when you were younger that that you're trying to put out there as an image. Man, that's a great

[00:14:17] one right there. I think, you know, big one was, you know, you had these men that were,

[00:14:23] I don't know what to say. I mean, they're like cowards, bro. Like, no, we were two, you know,

[00:14:28] there is, you know, saying anything that was breathing, brother, it was, it was, it was coming up

[00:14:32] the street and right past the church, they flattened, you know, and they just basically said nothing.

[00:14:38] They were walking straight about me pulling my pants and took it off my hat. Then they were like,

[00:14:43] oh, this young cat did that, they literally had eaten two days little, you know, saying like they

[00:14:49] didn't, they didn't, they didn't know that I always had entrepreneurial abilities but they never

[00:14:54] could see past the suit. They didn't think he could see them. So for me, it was like, no, I'm going to

[00:14:59] call, I got, I got to yeah, but that, that's, that's, I just wish that that was when I was younger

[00:15:07] coming up. I was that, that was available. But Cass really wanted to get beyond the

[00:15:11] baneer of this tough guy and really get down to that this is, this is, this is due that,

[00:15:15] they don't have a dead. Yo, I'm dead but one of my favorite moments when I was passing my

[00:15:20] church in Gawood was in Kai came in our church and one of my, uh, did get at the time, walked up

[00:15:26] to him and say, man, you got to pull your pants up for you coming here. I think he looked at him

[00:15:29] and said, I ain't bro, if you'd been looking at my eyes and looked at my face, it wouldn't seem

[00:15:33] my pants on my, oh, stop, stop, hit that moment. I will never walk me with a mean thing.

[00:15:43] Wooo! That's what your story reminds me of. Man, Jay, you called,

[00:15:48] woo, that's cold. Yeah, I said the same thing. They were talking about each and

[00:15:53] not. What underneath the love? You know what I mean? So, right now, you, you, you,

[00:15:59] you were, you were pastoring in a youth pastoring there. I was, I was, I was a passenger.

[00:16:04] Jay, man. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, I used that for a, a, a most straight in the sun.

[00:16:12] Simon series are looking at my face. You know what I'm saying?

[00:16:17] Right. You come here. You came, you came, you came with the pants down to your meat. Say something

[00:16:24] now. I was like, y'all. No, I told you about the time I preached at this church.

[00:16:33] I'll tell you on the second when we come back, man. Church on the block, man. Real talking about

[00:16:36] hip-hop of the church in the streets. Man, channel 140, CS6 and Holy Culture Radio. We, we,

[00:16:41] we're gonna hear what a great host, DJ Rutgers, Pastor Jay, Pastor Evans, coming right back at you.

[00:16:47] Hold it down.

[00:16:55] When the block rim talk about hip-hop, the church in the streets on Sirius XM,

[00:16:59] channel 140, Holy Culture Radio. We've been about that life for about a year or so.

[00:17:04] A little bit more than we would. Thank you for listening to us, man. Every Sunday 9 AM central time,

[00:17:09] which is the only time it really matters and then 10 East Coast time. But we are here.

[00:17:15] And we want you to listen. What should you involve? We're gonna do some things this, this year,

[00:17:20] some challenges get folks to share their bars and put them on the air with us and some ideas

[00:17:24] that we want to run by. So, hanging there with us, checking with us on our IG on church on the block.

[00:17:30] But man, I was about to say, talking about churches and and and preaching and things like that.

[00:17:35] And I was at a church wanting to see the post of the church. I was in for youth revival.

[00:17:39] I came on a Sunday night with a Sunday and Monday and Tuesday. I came from Chicago. The youth

[00:17:44] pastor and the pastor knew what I was about to do on this Sunday morning. I got the suit from the

[00:17:48] thrift shop. Got some old dog mad dog 2020 old dog. I'm thinking of the movie. I got some mad dog

[00:17:54] 2020, afforded all on the suit. I put the suit on. I'm sitting out front of the church. I was like,

[00:18:01] I had to mad dog in a bottle and a plastic bag where I'm, you know, I just want to know Jesus.

[00:18:07] But I'm not that somebody gave me three dollars. You know what I'm saying? We praying for you

[00:18:10] and I have people coming through. Probably the usher was like, can they help me? I just, you know,

[00:18:15] Jesus, man. Go to church, man. Just I'm going to go, you know, with God. I was just saying,

[00:18:18] we'll frag all over. You brought me to the bathroom to wash up. I'm like, okay, I'm going to wash

[00:18:24] up and I had this hat that said middle time. And then he's like, well, man, we're going to sit

[00:18:31] over on the balcony. Whether you pass the dude came in real quick or took the hat off. He stuck

[00:18:35] the lapel mic in the hat. So I grabbed and folded it. The usher dude didn't know. He's like, no,

[00:18:39] no, we'll have him sit right here. He wants to sit down because when I sat down and while when they

[00:18:44] stood up, I said down when they when they sat down, I stood up with all this opposite stuff, right? And

[00:18:50] the pastor talking about it's the year of evangelism. You know, they witnessed as so many people

[00:18:54] this year and blah blah blah. The pastor introduced me and I stayed in that crowd. He introduced me

[00:18:59] you know, brother and girl, Peter for the evangelist for a couple of days. They had a pastor

[00:19:03] and I stood up. I said, what the hell was going on? I said, this is a church about evangelism this year

[00:19:10] and Y'all can't even talk to me. And I just said that because the intent was hopefully I wouldn't have

[00:19:16] to have said any of that because the church would be like, man, come on in there. What's your name,

[00:19:19] Joe? How are you doing? You wouldn't have to worry about it for my pants a second. They were

[00:19:22] looking at my face, you know, like you were saying, Jay, they would look at who you are as a human

[00:19:27] being and if they were not careful themselves or not close to Christ themselves, they would

[00:19:31] recognize you. I'm a few hours from being here with you. If I'm not close to Christ, I'm going

[00:19:36] to be out of your own mortality that you'll be like, yo, bro, what's up? Ma'am, don't go in the

[00:19:45] church. Let's shop. Let's go get something to eat. That kind of stuff. I was really looking

[00:19:48] how like, yo, this is the church I'm going to come to. I am back there forever. I mean, I think

[00:19:54] they still doing a thing. But I just say that because it takes another level of courage, I believe

[00:20:05] to really recognize the pulse of the culture, the community of what's going on, right? And then

[00:20:10] being able to come back and say, okay, God, where is it that you know, and how is it that we would

[00:20:14] bring the gospel to this culture, this community? No brothers, what do you have thought? What do you

[00:20:20] have thoughts? I'm sitting there thinking as you talking though, like as we try to lead, you know,

[00:20:27] lead in this kind of realm of where we do ministry. I think the question I have or the thoughts

[00:20:34] I'm wondering about is we often are looked at as like outsiders or look at as doing like niche or

[00:20:42] novelty type of ministry or that's for them or that's cool where you are. It's not looked

[00:20:50] at as though like central to like what God is doing in the world, you know what I mean? And I think

[00:20:55] you know, even even throw your books off the edge, right? And so if people might just like, oh yeah,

[00:21:00] he's on the edge. He's your stuff way out there. Like how do you respond to that? Well, like,

[00:21:07] you know, to me, I look at the ministry of Jesus, you know, this is what I was thinking about, I'll talk

[00:21:12] about your book like and Jesus spins all of his time doing that kind of stuff. So he's not on

[00:21:17] the edge. That's the center edge of the life fluffy, you know what I'm saying? How do you find

[00:21:24] the people who like, well that's good for you, you know, and we'll support you with that kind

[00:21:28] of stuff. But as normal people over here, we're doing this. Like I think you responded to that man.

[00:21:33] I know what I say, but what do you think? Yeah, I think contextualization is always where

[00:21:40] you said just deny it's a bomb. You know, Florida special people. I know that I subbed

[00:21:45] and God is awesome. I'm in desperate need of him. So it's not about me knowing what I ain't doing

[00:21:49] yet. He's doing he's doing. And so I'm I do you know, say I don't even have to be from the context

[00:21:56] and still be effective. So it's not about any of that. It's like no, it's like where are you?

[00:22:03] How do you reach people in that context and and and and and and and be about that and up and if

[00:22:09] you can find? Yeah, that's that's how I approach us. Like I mean, it's just not so it's

[00:22:14] you know how it is. It's like we have a service on Saturday nights and it was just like people,

[00:22:21] oh yeah, this is our Saturday thing to do. Right. We're everything it takes to be we are the church.

[00:22:27] Look at Acts 2 4247. Please, you know, do the checklist bro. Like this is right.

[00:22:34] It's amazing. Oh, it's good for the kids. And I'm like, wrong man with grandkids. Which

[00:22:38] means good for the kids. You know, at what point is the scripture relevant for everything?

[00:22:44] In fact, this guy's been read it and sat in my hut down. It's an you know saying it's

[00:22:50] it's been a sufficient you know. And so it's for some reason just feel like like because of

[00:22:55] the the street rap that is in and you know, we're hip hop and culture and we're doing it. I don't

[00:23:02] don't understand it. I just think it's always relevant to contextualize. Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:08] And out this interest in me that contextualization is like a buzzword for people or like a you know

[00:23:16] like a new song or something. I'm like what? The only way we've ever done church is contextual

[00:23:22] like most kids, man. The only way you can do it Paul is not like oh you will still apply you know

[00:23:29] but you know what I'm saying? Y'all should just go over the emphasis looking at what they

[00:23:32] just trying to bring over the syllabi and do that. Now, I'm like he's writing letters back and forth

[00:23:37] to people in a specific context and a specific time then there was specific issues. So this idea

[00:23:42] contextualization and like meeting the people where they are I don't understand how it's so far

[00:23:48] from folks. But it really is. They really want to niche you and say well that's for that. You know,

[00:23:52] I'm just going to live by live. Imagine this day like I feel like it's only when it comes to

[00:24:01] urban hip-hop culture that we think about it that we we're not talking about that when we're

[00:24:05] coming on with bongos you know what I'm saying with with with the you know if you go to any other

[00:24:13] country, you know you're gonna learn to learn things not to say things that to do don't cross

[00:24:17] the legs because this is what it means to the elders you learn all the stuff and we we brag about

[00:24:22] it. They come back to you know all this stuff it's just only when it comes to our teeth and I own

[00:24:26] back yard that we have a problem. Real tough. That's going to become a problem. We understand it

[00:24:33] from white to black turrets doesn't matter. I'm fully understanding. Protectualization when it talks

[00:24:37] about international ministry but what it calls the ministry at home because we just don't like it.

[00:24:45] We don't understand it because they don't understand it. We just we just don't write it off.

[00:24:49] We get it. They go once or just just be a bit of a buck man's castle.

[00:24:55] No right because they're difficult. I mean I'm what you said I think by my face don't like

[00:25:01] right you don't fit there they don't fit their norm right you don't like it it makes them uncomfortable

[00:25:06] you know man so I see you hit it on the head that we can do it overseas because it's novel.

[00:25:12] You get privilege and honor and all you've got to have a job. I'd brag. You want to cross the

[00:25:18] track. You know I mean like the fascinators you know I switched of climate in England

[00:25:25] uh two and a half years doing uh doing work at England uh started just putting a network

[00:25:32] there ever just putting a network and uh it's just done a lot but man it's like it's fascinating

[00:25:38] these dudes took like what we know is our hymns it took pothunes and changed the words like some

[00:25:45] some of them well known hymns western right right like these are well known hymns it changed the

[00:25:50] words and now they got a problem it's like oh oh you got a problem with your life right you know

[00:25:56] saying like you got a problem with because you don't like the rhythmically what it's doing but this

[00:26:02] you're just sacred hymn use right bro right because it's because it's a part of bar bar

[00:26:07] apart right so exactly exactly like the fact that folks took time to be relevant in their culture in that

[00:26:18] space um um to bring uh folks understanding faith and in that context however was received um

[00:26:31] you know was embrace but because you know in the context of hip hop or you can just say about culture

[00:26:36] and the edge of uh uh where uh people are in in the context of hip hop or what hip hop presents itself

[00:26:43] to be sometimes in those spaces it becomes um yeah this can't fit in that box it can't fit in that box

[00:26:51] you know it has to um it has to be um for something else other than that you know uh yeah and it can't

[00:26:59] just be um gimmickish like you tell my Jay you know um the um you know all that stuff is going to

[00:27:07] gonna gonna fade away after a while you know i mean what will be some things that like if

[00:27:13] if if a young young young one of young man says hey i want to you know plant this church engage in

[00:27:20] ministry man a lot of people out here these young adults they don't really get it they

[00:27:26] they they they tick-tock his you know or even if it's that they do get it i want to bring my

[00:27:32] my my culture my my community back to church what will be some with with with with you know

[00:27:38] what was happening now in in in in in generation they have in flow and context but what will be

[00:27:42] some key elements that would be significant for a young person to think through um as they're

[00:27:48] gonna plant or start or rebirth as well i got i got a i got a few um i think my first one will be

[00:27:55] don't do it alone uh i don't i don't know what it is how many i mean hip hop Christian hip hop

[00:28:01] grocery now mm-hmm right there's something just division this separate mindset believing that we can

[00:28:09] do this right alone is it's something that's that that is prevalent and i think we need to

[00:28:15] uh fight against that um go go into them there's some power in that but then go into an

[00:28:20] all different ways so it's like do you how are you being coached in mid-tour? do you have a appear

[00:28:27] mid-tour group and are you mentoring decide yeah somebody else all three of those at the same time

[00:28:31] to me when i say don't go yeah long then i would say um i would say this is more practical um

[00:28:37] you know this is me like it's like i get i get you know i come from the from an it world

[00:28:43] but i don't and when i don't think it's strategic it costs for money that's just where it works

[00:28:47] if i if i if i could start just throwing out ideas and start just implementing uh

[00:28:51] microsoft strain is to be people processed in implementation in that or it's just drilled

[00:28:56] it's in my brain so because if i throw from people to implementation and not deal with the strategy

[00:29:02] and systems or how to do that um it cost because organizations lost some money

[00:29:08] so for me it's like and in urban context specifically that we do because we're that's where we think

[00:29:14] it's like let me think yeah let me do let me think and let me do it stop from in it pause breathe

[00:29:18] and develop a strategy learn how to use strategy

[00:29:23] and don't tell me oh if you're not you're not taking that bag from a 20 get a dub to get a 16 to get

[00:29:28] a quarter to get put in another quarter get a half to get a half get a house yeah

[00:29:32] jay jay game stop jz get the break down too i turned it out to him right

[00:29:40] you know what i say we don't do it it's just like take that moment it's it's

[00:29:44] we got the most important message on the planet stop pause yeah plant

[00:29:48] you know that kind of thing or if you don't know how they learn how to do strategy

[00:29:51] i'm gonna have to do to teach my i do it and then uh and then make make the site for making

[00:29:56] i know it's very redundant but uh was the barna and a navigator they did a they did a joint

[00:30:02] they created a baby of which is the number one disciple maker is on the planet and the

[00:30:05] the number one researchers are planning me to baby i did it because they're discipleship right

[00:30:10] and i was there during the reveal at at the navigators we don't imagine or whatever

[00:30:14] and it's like we've got a four christians have a remade disciples that was being about five years

[00:30:22] let's tell what you know yes so if you go on the amazine start the state of the site wow

[00:30:28] yes yes one out of four christians have ever made a discipleship

[00:30:32] well but here's the testicap you they want to five have ever been disciples for themselves

[00:30:37] that makes sense make said they can't do it because they ain't in the cyborg yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:30:43] and what passable girl like yeah i don't know how to make disciples

[00:30:45] they're not when they're not they're just not so then we just perpetuate keep this thing going

[00:30:51] nobody's making disciples when we're in this state where america according to national

[00:30:55] Baptist Convention 215 million people in america that do not confess Jesus Christ's Lord make it

[00:30:59] America the third largest mistress doing the plan that's right right right right in racially you know

[00:31:06] i don't even know if so i would say get to the basis of making disciples who make disciples

[00:31:11] teaching them to open or anything else throw away all the books burn on and then say but

[00:31:15] teaching them to obey everything i command you to do right nothing else right

[00:31:20] then i think i think you're back to those basics and we have your guess every young

[00:31:24] guy can do that please somebody just three six six six six six seven eight right right right

[00:31:29] right what make it so singing complex it nobody can do it which is

[00:31:34] energized disciples should it is not be duplicative yeah that's true i mean some things

[00:31:40] i mean discipleship is core foundation like it's like the fundamentals right

[00:31:48] but folks have you know if you're not doing the fundamentals or creating space for those fundamentals

[00:31:54] then you find then the cats are trying to do some moves that they don't necessarily have the

[00:32:01] skills for but they saw or they mimic that but they lose the body get stripped because they

[00:32:06] haven't basically yeah they're they've been they've been grounded those fun a little

[00:32:10] because whether it's a fair or whether it's you know the pressure of societal situation that

[00:32:15] they feel they got to jump into that particular bucket either just my my thoughts off the cuff

[00:32:21] as you're talking about that because to do to do discipleship you need time right you

[00:32:27] intentionality you know you you're a directive of where you're going and how you're gonna

[00:32:34] get there you know you talked about process at the implementation um so um i mean i was i was at

[00:32:40] a funeral just the other day and a pastor who um disciples the brother who who passed the

[00:32:50] the guy was asking for it for himself he was like man i mean me with me once a month no no

[00:32:54] pastor i'm not maybe with you once a month and if we get it just walk with it once a month just

[00:32:59] and then you just you just caught on you just caught on it's that level of commitment

[00:33:04] and then training other people to do the same thing um to be able to grow uh disciples in

[00:33:09] in that in that space me i mean i think some of the complications we're seeing even in America

[00:33:14] spiritually socially in in issues of injustices are are around the fact that we haven't got

[00:33:20] folks to cycle those spaces you know because truth can speak to power as you just

[00:33:23] cycle around it and you can do it in a way that's smooth like bam and he just magnly with the gospel

[00:33:28] but i didn't even know it on this on this on this political platform day with somebody who's

[00:33:34] disciples to school him up in that spot man man this is good you know we getting this information

[00:33:39] for the free contemplatively destroyed trying to talk about 100 grand just for the what is

[00:33:44] information your church on the block man we will be right back channel 140 css xm holy

[00:33:50] complete oh no sir right there

[00:34:04] yo we are back church on the block channel 140 holy culture radio

[00:34:08] serious exam thank you for being with us every Sunday 9 a.m central 10 a.m eastern

[00:34:13] we want to continue uh to grow what we're uh doing hit us up on i g because we want to know the

[00:34:18] different topics that you think uh we need to be real about that may not we may not have touched

[00:34:22] them yet but just they've had a conversation with us so uh we got some more conversation with our

[00:34:26] great friend pastor Troy Evans great brother great leader man humble camp man making an impact

[00:34:33] in such a way that um that it's like it's like when you get smacked in a face with it then you

[00:34:38] then you like how did that happen impact in the kingdom of god has happened in um in

[00:34:42] choice ministry uh through areas in in in Michigan areas all over the globe uh and then some

[00:34:49] individual cats who are just growing in in spaces that are uh that are taken from his discipleship

[00:34:55] into the world in different spots we want to hear a little bit more about that but uh we're

[00:35:00] going to talk now about about what you're doing now so uh tj ruckus yeah so Troy i was uh man i've

[00:35:06] had the pleasure of reading your books up several years ago one of my favorite books

[00:35:11] that's feel cracked the joke offline he said that's the only book i've ever read in my life

[00:35:19] but uh man i just remember your book had a lot of gems on it and i know this is this is 10 years

[00:35:28] this is the end of the break in the 10 year anniversary of your book release man are you doing

[00:35:32] anything special or go ahead and tell the people man or how they can get your book and what you're

[00:35:37] up to now yeah man so thank you know i appreciate everybody's support that's been amazing just

[00:35:44] i'm just you know just a nothead from the Midwest man just trying to reach people for Jesus and

[00:35:49] i just haven't cast like Phil you know put his put his put his love in the book appreciate that

[00:35:55] feel it read your book though he didn't read somebody else wrote that for him

[00:35:58] love is for it that's all that matter

[00:36:02] oh man the book i read with the love on it what you mean i got to tell you that

[00:36:08] okay you know we released the book and it was literally they were making the plane while we're

[00:36:13] taking it in the air you know and so i think that was a good part of body was that when we was like

[00:36:19] it was theoretical um and in a lot of ways you know i had you know 10 years of ministry prior

[00:36:24] but it's still this was having that we had never done that and then but then now that with a 10

[00:36:29] year of re re release what we know doing is going back and look in retrospect and talk to people

[00:36:33] like Steve and people that were in the beginning they said well what about this was true

[00:36:40] it wasn't true and uh and so there we added a few chapters at the end of the book on that so

[00:36:46] uh so with that with that all that uh what happened is through the aes we started uh 18 companies

[00:36:53] um last owned by youth and younger adults and i know we hired about 400 youth legit giving them jobs

[00:37:00] to work you know through um through ministry and stuff but out of that we decided a church planting

[00:37:06] entity called uh nitrogen um and then basically nitrogen is an urban church planning entity

[00:37:12] that we work with denomination districts and churches and we exist to to to to crypt the

[00:37:19] to do the work of urban ministry and so we do that through recruiting assessing culture training

[00:37:23] and networking um and then we just help churches get it done and get it cracking

[00:37:27] and hopefully not make as many mistakes and hurt a lot of people in the process

[00:37:31] back is there a chance of a part two to to this book are we looking at another series or a new book

[00:37:39] comment uh it's big 10 years you got some most of i know man i'm pretty sure my thums heard man

[00:37:45] i know how these cats are right on the clue to me but we got a couple of things in the works man

[00:37:51] just as we as we're learning things and trying to get something to young guys one of my learnings

[00:37:56] is that i'm gonna i always bring young cats with me but i'm i think i'm gonna

[00:38:00] by guys grace up way with the self a few books you know um and so that makes it a little bit easier

[00:38:05] for me to walk on the door and then walking by themselves so i think i'm gonna do some more co-authors

[00:38:10] with cats and get them in the door and so uh so we we we almost done with the hustle-free

[00:38:15] heat book was a company that we started um and so yeah to that might be the next one i think

[00:38:21] all right i'll get people get an older your book man yeah just just go to try up this speaks.com

[00:38:28] try up this speaks.com and and and it's there blips on amazon as well

[00:38:34] thank you bro thank you for that up sir thanks for reading

[00:38:38] thank you for that man how long did it take you to write the book um i i'm not a great writer so

[00:38:46] i did a lot of talking in uh and then i did some this some research so that that was probably like

[00:38:52] a six month process and they're working with the person who helped me put it all together yeah

[00:38:57] uh that took another about five months just because of i'm just yeah but yeah but that had a good team

[00:39:03] chose to go as choose to go with a smaller publishing house so i can learn the game

[00:39:09] because they're like i can literally do that i can walk in there and go talk to the people

[00:39:13] talk to the publics and talk to each each that's why i can understand and so that was a great

[00:39:17] great experience doing that but probably what i took a longer that that makes it more real

[00:39:25] and and i think now that you know the process now you know how to uh go for it in the next move

[00:39:31] yeah yeah that's a j yeah so sure a quick question man uh an insight just let it

[00:39:39] your response to it so um we did a whole bunch of shows this year kind of talking about a

[00:39:45] celebrate and fit their anniversary a hip-hop culture and and its impact on the world as well

[00:39:51] as its impact on the church and um you know as somebody you know who's been in ministry that has

[00:39:58] been you know geared towards using hip-hop culture geared towards hip-hop culture and as well as

[00:40:05] embracing it i'm just wondering how you respond or think uh about the denotion of hip-hop church

[00:40:13] hip-hop culture being more included in churn as old not like you know people saying all that

[00:40:21] ever earlier right people but like if hip-hop is 50 years old that means that now you know

[00:40:28] depending on your organizational size and who's it in after the folks and then have been raised

[00:40:34] with and during uh uh a time where hip-hop was the most dominant culture um in the world and so

[00:40:41] i just wonder your thoughts about like what it looks like for pastor you just pass on the church

[00:40:46] hey everybody come in hoody's and the cell toles and all like that but but it doesn't mean

[00:40:53] that they didn't grow up with with hip-hop is a dominant I mean you can't everything's hip-hop

[00:40:57] stills everything very commercial right everything that you can't go anywhere you can't buy car

[00:41:04] at the way they're pop being engaged in a combo so i just wonder like what we need to be saying or

[00:41:12] or or the cypher that asks us are leaders to recognize about the impact of uh of their pop on

[00:41:19] their current congregation not just on the him-hearing street yeah kids just in general and how you

[00:41:25] respond to that and maybe what you're saying as you're training and teaching and doing your work

[00:41:31] i think you said it man i mean literally what i was going to say was you know uh it's it's to

[00:41:36] remind them on how hip-hop is not a song it's not uh you know it's it's culture you know say it's

[00:41:46] culture that has wrapped this that has you know that this is something that we can truly truly say

[00:41:53] that it is black american culture african american culture as one of few things that we can say

[00:42:00] like this is just one thousand percent be long and it's something to be proud of right and in

[00:42:05] some cast went off and did some wild stuff with it okay we got keys there while off and do wild stuff

[00:42:10] you feel me so it's just like yes this one wild stuff with it but just acknowledge that but i

[00:42:15] i would say it's some things that that those of us that you uh that are a part of and we do have

[00:42:21] churches that are that are that are focused on that space there's something that we have to

[00:42:25] think we can do better because that um uh it was that we have to challenge the status quo of making

[00:42:32] the making hip-hop as a special tea thing on and in the church surface because we we continue

[00:42:38] a prop we we we we we help them to create us oh we're going to do this and they will do the real

[00:42:44] worship so what we try to do you know what i'm responsible for culture when i was the pastor

[00:42:51] i'm responsible for to make sure no no no no you're not dividing this it is it is workshop is

[00:42:57] didn't spirit and truth that's the question you know and it invests the case then let's do the most

[00:43:02] such as doubt that's worship you know let's not separate these things okay you don't have to

[00:43:06] celebrate the slow-sour fast all do what do you make it make sense uh from from a from from

[00:43:12] lyric lyric system wise that's hip-hop right making it make sense um i think i think in terms of the

[00:43:18] mc's the artist what we got us challenged is that we when we're losing our soft teams the artist

[00:43:25] the artist they're losing so then so then then they just all the nutrition won't let me and no you

[00:43:29] ain't saying nothing i don't see you you're you're worth being tested

[00:43:36] what are you doing for the gidditch you're gonna say it hasn't it put me

[00:43:41] it was like my phone number is you understand me like

[00:43:44] read the whole thing i go nowhere well i say no like right the thing like has leaked it

[00:43:50] you got let's get it losing the softiness and it has it has no purpose and so i think what happens

[00:43:56] is the incentive for hey put me up here and you're really would you ask your youth pastor whether

[00:44:00] the artist made service you say can i separate your congregation for next three and a half minutes

[00:44:05] they have nothing to say and please stop prickly thank you i'd call you here to praise a message

[00:44:12] through the way that i'm gonna preach the message i need to preach the message like through the god

[00:44:16] right just one day you're slow oh you know i've been here that new song

[00:44:21] yeah oh my i get it now that's why you have to preach

[00:44:25] do what you're there to heal that three and a half minutes and a month

[00:44:29] yeah right yeah yeah oh feel i was out we so Troy we had an opportunity to do a panel

[00:44:38] and moody bible listen to a couple of years ago me pastor Phil and uh i boy cherish the guys

[00:44:43] and who uh DJ as well and uh DJ rock on and uh you know i don't i don't i was just telling my wife

[00:44:51] i don't look at i try to stay away from comments and like you know what people are saying out of

[00:44:57] these videos and posts and all that stuff but it was interesting man like somebody reposted a clip

[00:45:03] of what i talked about on there um and called me and it was called woke preacher clips like like

[00:45:10] woke preacher and they took what i was talking about a hip hop and like put it out there

[00:45:14] completely out of context none of them even hear none of the rest of the panel just that one little

[00:45:18] part and i talked about hip hop uh being a representative of god because um you know god is for

[00:45:25] the marginalized and the oppressing stands on the side of of the marginalized and boy these folks

[00:45:32] you know me up in the kind about um you know this idea of god being you know um on the side of

[00:45:42] the marginalized and they want to go through the bible and talk about all the time for god was

[00:45:45] on the side of the powerful and you know okay anyway my point is this like as we think about

[00:45:51] the theology of hip right and we think about like while we as pastors would allow hip hop culture

[00:45:57] music themes all that to permeate our poor pits to be a part of our preaching to our like

[00:46:04] as learned and educated brothers what would you say is the reason what what is the theological

[00:46:09] underpinning that connects hip hop to what you do on everyday basis as you do ministry yeah

[00:46:15] because that was a question that was asked to be of the sea you know what you know i understand

[00:46:20] right i i would go back to i think we have a disciples with this caston having nothing to

[00:46:25] disciples in the word um and i think a lot of times i mean i'm guilty especially because i

[00:46:33] you know i make disciples but i run and i wrestle fast to forget that other number i forget

[00:46:37] that other cast we have always told people to make disciples and go there for

[00:46:43] as you go make disciples but we never tell them how to make disciples

[00:46:47] so we too have to stop and then to really show the the the the artists

[00:46:53] and those who the pastors were discipling these artists and then like okay this is how you

[00:46:57] pastor artists and Phil will have the textbook on that like you know i'm saying like to do

[00:47:04] I don't know this as a question but i think it goes back it's a discipleship issue because our

[00:47:08] theology every discussion whether it's giving whether it's serving whether it's your mythology

[00:47:13] everything that's that's discipleship issue how you view your theological quadrilaterales of

[00:47:19] discipleship issue and we have to help that we have to go back there we have to go back to the basics

[00:47:27] yeah no that's good bro i yeah holistic discipleship is what it you know we all are talking about

[00:47:33] for those who are sitting and going we do a disciple we don't just really teach it people to

[00:47:37] quote this scripture we're talking how does that skillet impact their everyday life yeah like

[00:47:41] what is it going to mean for them when they get outside of a church building that have to be on the

[00:47:45] block of the homes but how is that learning job 316 then every day through their life so

[00:47:52] i just i asked that question because i just feel like sometimes the church is fighting against each

[00:47:57] other for no reason you know me and i just they'll understand it you know but i appreciate your

[00:48:05] thoughts and i'm 100% with you man discipleship is such a key we got to give back to them but

[00:48:09] this has got to be whole listening discipleship it's got to be discipleship not just around learning

[00:48:13] scriptures and and how to pray but also like where you spend your money and who you vote for

[00:48:20] how you think about you know how things happen in a neighborhood it looks like you know to raise

[00:48:25] a family well and to be a good father and the mother and to deal with it when you're done you're

[00:48:29] going to use your all your all of that um but i think sometimes we just feel like we just have

[00:48:36] a Bible study at a prayer meeting and we're in discipleship so yeah right right he's I think

[00:48:41] I think the gap of that has caused people to say um i can separate my life over here and

[00:48:49] and what i'm going to do for the Lord over this way and but our light in a twine

[00:48:55] and in Christ is what what discipleship is it's it's it's it's that it's that roughage you said

[00:49:00] muck in the mire that this stuff really really needs to happen but there's too many models and

[00:49:05] examples of some of that i mean we're going through it now i'm gonna say it once and i only go talk

[00:49:11] with whatever's happening with puffy and whatever's happening with td8s whatever that he is this

[00:49:16] it's it's a bunch of believers that are going crazy here some stuff feels like where is Jesus

[00:49:23] where is the fact that we have i don't know the bad ground i don't know about the friction climbing

[00:49:31] what's happening but it's like it's always feels it's always a thing to your point just

[00:49:40] oh my god we we get away off the mark man we get away out the mark oh man so today man

[00:49:49] we got jay dropping these bars um Troy man it's a blessing to be with you man always man just

[00:49:54] just it was my heart man being with you as a brother to faith and the ministry that you got going on

[00:49:58] i'm looking forward to man as we're gonna accelerate some some more moves together man looking

[00:50:03] forward child we're gonna connect together so thank you mark me in all with likewise bro thank

[00:50:06] you're good to see your faces me you too man looking forward to you being on with it some more

[00:50:11] down the wall Troy as i held this man stay on the wall man for Jackson maybe get off the wall get off the wall

[00:50:22] okay i don't own man so feel that's giving me the opportunity and the privilege to do bars today

[00:50:28] so i'm gonna drop a quick story and this is simple it goes with what i was talking about earlier

[00:50:32] there's a story of uh two men who are riding a tandem bicycle up a real steep hill

[00:50:39] and it's like super difficult to get to the top they have been pedaling and pedaling and pedaling

[00:50:44] and it's like man it seemed like with two of them pushing this should be much easier to go up

[00:50:48] to the seal but this is like the hardest bike ride they've ever had they hit finally to the top

[00:50:53] of the hill after edelain's powers the hours and the front rider looks back at the second rider

[00:50:59] said bro that was such a tough ride man i was hard and the second rider is like bro he was hard

[00:51:06] i'm sure glad that i was keeping my foot on the brake because we might have slayed backwards if i did

[00:51:12] the bottom line is to me this is what the church is doing right like we're supposed to be

[00:51:18] pedaling in the same direction yeah right some people might be in the front if we might be in the back

[00:51:22] some people might be riding this bike some people riding this bike but the problem is because we don't

[00:51:28] sink in and because we're trying to play it safe or we're scared some of us are riding with our

[00:51:33] foot on the brake and actually fighting against or working against each other and making the

[00:51:39] the fight more difficult y'all stop taking foot off the brake stop trying to tell other people

[00:51:43] how they're supposed to do ministry stop trying to knit them stop trying to tell them they can only

[00:51:47] do this let's work together and realize we're all trying to glorify God and whatever contextual space

[00:51:53] we find ourselves in let's not work against each other let's work with each other and let's keep

[00:51:57] representing the kingdom y'all thank you all so much for this and the church on the block right here

[00:52:02] is here 16th channel 140 we out of here talking about real talk about the hip hop about the church

[00:52:08] and about the streets this is what guys are Jay