670. How to Lead with Purpose with DWG CEO Nancy Goebel

[00:00:00] Today is the first time a woman is being beaten up by a woman, an African woman.

[00:00:09] Welcome back to the show. I am really pleased to have a good friend with me. Women's history

[00:00:16] month is over but we are not. We are still continuing to celebrate particularly we

[00:00:20] have the opportunity to talk to wonderful leaders such as the person I'm going to introduce

[00:00:24] today. Nancy Goalbo took over as DWG's CEO at the start of 2023 and DWG stands for Digital

[00:00:32] Workplace Group. Since joining DWG in 2007, she's held various roles, most recently as

[00:00:38] managing director of member services with responsibility for global expansion. Prior to joining DWG,

[00:00:45] Nancy was a seasoned executive at JP Morgan Chase in Manhattan where we had the chance to

[00:00:50] work together on a few things. She built and led a global team in designing and implementing

[00:00:55] any award-winning intranet. Nancy, welcome to the show. Thank you so much James. This is a treat

[00:01:03] on so many levels. Of course we have history and that's always special but we had a chance

[00:01:11] to come together on a podcast that I run. And so to turn the tables today is pretty exciting.

[00:01:17] Turning the tables in the it's so good to see you. Let me ask you a question. One of the things I

[00:01:23] read is that you are a keen mediator, a raky practitioner which I certainly did not know.

[00:01:32] An amateur whimemaker again which I certainly did not know. Fun Razor doesn't surprise me.

[00:01:37] Mentor mother of two got it bilingual did not know. And a practitioner of international business

[00:01:43] now having said all those things what's one thing you can share with my audience that even

[00:01:48] those closest to Nancy do not know. Oh my goodness. Well I guess the thing that would surprise people

[00:01:58] most is that I was painfully shy growing up and it was one of those things I always admired

[00:02:08] people around me who were outgoing and gregarious. And said to myself I feel like this is a

[00:02:14] handicap and I have to figure out how to overcome it. And so I'd say that that shyness continued

[00:02:22] well into my teens. And by the time I was getting ready for college I said okay time to break the

[00:02:29] cycle. And I ended up setting up challenges for myself for each summer as my path to becoming

[00:02:39] what was an introvert to ultimately an ambivirt right to adjust the different circumstances.

[00:02:45] And so year one I took an internship as a telemarketer. So had to learn how to sell.

[00:02:56] Year two I created another internship opportunity that allowed me to build on that and started working

[00:03:06] in the city for a large corporate. And then by year three I packed my suitcase left for France

[00:03:18] and spent a summer studying at the University of Nice. Didn't know anyone among my classmates

[00:03:28] I knew one of the professors but I went to live with a French family for the duration. And I have

[00:03:34] to say setting those challenges for myself actually built the foundation for how I ended up

[00:03:41] managing my entire career today. That is really good. You know I had not heard the

[00:03:47] term ambivirt before. And so love it because similar to you I'm a natural introvert but certainly

[00:03:54] adjust the different situations and what was interesting to me I don't know if this happened for

[00:03:58] you during our time at JP Morgan Chase I feel like I took the Myers Briggs four times

[00:04:05] and moved from this kind of extreme INTJ to this E3 right and balance in most things. And I

[00:04:13] remember talking to one of the you know coaches etc. about it and he said well no you're adjusting

[00:04:18] right you've won you've changed and you've become more malleable right and more cognizant of

[00:04:23] things around you but you've you can shift to different situations so I love that term ambivirt

[00:04:28] now have a place have a name or label I can use. Exactly and I think you know we're called upon

[00:04:37] to draw from our inner voice or inner thought process to start. Yes. But then bringing others

[00:04:45] around us into conversation whether it's to collaborate to innovate etc is so key

[00:04:52] and to be able to work situationally from outside or inside out right is what the ambivirt

[00:05:00] ultimately needs to be able to do. That's good that's good so tell folks a little bit about what you

[00:05:07] do at digital workplace group. So the best way to think about it is that almost every organization

[00:05:15] nowadays has a fashion of a digital headquarters look at how we're working through this podcast

[00:05:22] together we're not sitting in the same room across the table with microphones we're operating

[00:05:27] virtually and so whether it's to converse to collaborate to get stuff done to innovate we all in

[00:05:37] some sense need to be able to tap different digital capabilities to do that especially those that

[00:05:43] are working in fortune 1000 or equivalent companies. And so DWG has been around for the better part

[00:05:50] of 22 years now and we work primarily with large corporates although we do touch other industry

[00:05:57] segments in North America and Europe and ultimately we're all about helping these large organizations

[00:06:05] unlock the full potential of their digital headquarters. And so we do in depth research

[00:06:14] we bring leaders together to share and learn from each other. We have a very robust knowledge

[00:06:21] base that we can draw from when people have questions or challenges they're working through

[00:06:27] but we equally have a benchmarking capability so that we can measure progress of individual

[00:06:34] organizations or cross organizations and then we have a consulting arm. So if you think about it in

[00:06:39] very simple terms the membership side of DWG is where we get to explore what good looks like

[00:06:46] benchmarking is where we measure against it and finally through the consulting side we undertake

[00:06:52] different interventions to either help bridge the gaps from the benchmarking or help set the next

[00:07:00] stage ambition to keep driving towards that success.

[00:07:05] You know one of the things I took note of doing women's history month is that 10%

[00:07:13] of CEO roles in Fortune 500 companies are occupied by women and I think it's a far cry then

[00:07:21] well for me it was worse than I thought if I can say it that way right I had one

[00:07:28] thought about it as a black male I understand the challenges right for my

[00:07:34] population both both in CEO roles and board roles quite frankly right the numbers are just not

[00:07:38] moved significantly enough in the right direction when I say that to you what comes to mind

[00:07:44] in terms of what that journey has been like for you to get to a CEO role.

[00:07:53] So I maybe I'll expose another layer to who I am so I am someone who is a French Caribbean origin

[00:08:04] so I'm multiracial you know it's not obvious to look at me but I have yeah roughly a 70-30 split

[00:08:15] European origin West African origin and that's not uncommon for people who come from the Caribbean

[00:08:23] but with all that said on a certain level you can say there are layers right to the challenges

[00:08:29] and when you start to think about not only women in senior leadership positions in corporate

[00:08:36] America but then when you go into STEM so into science technology engineering or math that number

[00:08:43] goes even lower and so here I am sitting as someone who's in an organization that's across between

[00:08:51] management consulting and technology and so the numbers there tend to be even lower

[00:08:59] and so you know I can't tell you James that when I was that shy 15-year-old that I expected to be where

[00:09:09] I am today but what I can tell you is that I decided to walk the way of the warrior from a young age

[00:09:20] as opposed to sitting in the land of the warrior and have always tried to set challenges for myself

[00:09:27] each and every step of the way to get to where I thought I needed to be next and so

[00:09:36] I was very fortunate that I was able to break into the Wall Street scene where we met

[00:09:41] at JP Morgan and I did not come in through a training program track

[00:09:47] I came in as just a regular college hire and sought ways to sort of bridge the gap

[00:09:55] and that took tenacity that took being the student of the craft whatever my assignment happened

[00:10:03] to be at that moment but also living in the land of yes anytime senior leadership would come to me

[00:10:09] and say would you be up for fill in the blank I would always say yes and often those were roles

[00:10:16] that weren't prescripted there was a goal there was a project and I had to figure it out and so

[00:10:23] I just rolled up my sleeves and figured out how to get stuff done and then on the other side

[00:10:29] tell the story about it and just continuing to do that and refine that but I also was surrounded by

[00:10:35] amazing leaders like you as well as women at JP Morgan and so that

[00:10:44] level of exposure was not only a motivator but also an enabler and I think

[00:10:51] for those women who have broken through the glass ceiling I dare say they would exhibit a lot of

[00:10:58] the same qualities let me let me go back to something you said I think this is really because

[00:11:04] it's amazing how certain phrases literally give you a visual image and that could be because

[00:11:08] I'm just such a visual person but when you said you know take the path of the warrior and not sit

[00:11:15] too long and the would you say in the land of the warrior do me a favor and

[00:11:20] because I think it's listen we as humans we can do mental gymnastics about things we worry about

[00:11:27] for a prolonged period of time right we can go one on one describe for me how you even got to

[00:11:34] that phrasing and what it looks like when you're sitting in the land of worry okay so I was exposed

[00:11:42] to this this construct of the warrior versus the warrior as part of my meditation circle

[00:11:50] and so it was a term that was introduced to me to challenge me even further in how I operated

[00:11:58] as an individual because ultimately my true north right is is that shy person and when one is shy

[00:12:07] there tends to be fear associated with that and so there's one thing that happens that shifts

[00:12:15] you from that warrior to warrior role and that's facing your fear right that's exhibiting courage

[00:12:23] that's doing something positive or constructive with the fear so when you live in the land of the

[00:12:28] warrior you're stuck here I'm pointing to my head right the chatter that goes on in your head

[00:12:35] when you live in the land of the warrior you shift that down to here and I'm pointing to

[00:12:41] my heart and my solar plexus right that's operating at a heart level and a soul level

[00:12:48] and that gives you the fuel to take that first step forward or that first series of steps forward

[00:12:57] and translate from fear chatter to courage action so that's how that

[00:13:05] way of thinking works for me and I love you I love your storyline about taking on challenges

[00:13:10] particularly those that didn't have a carved out path associated with them for me what comes to

[00:13:18] mine is um it's easy to well I won't say easy it's easy r to go across wood where there's been some

[00:13:26] some carve out and that will it right so the water can flow through that and maybe you can get a higher

[00:13:31] level of water or more efficient level of water it's different when there's no groove cut yet

[00:13:36] talk about you know what that is kind of context some of the most transformational moments for you

[00:13:46] I think the biggest one was the day my late husband said to me

[00:13:52] you have known nothing but the Wall Street life for the duration of your career you're coming up on

[00:14:02] 20 years and as you probably remember often that carried long hours with it and he was keen for me to

[00:14:12] come closer to home to be closer to family and that conversation really gave me pause

[00:14:22] to say maybe I don't have all of my priorities in the right places because I was prioritizing

[00:14:28] working career first at that time and so um I remembered distinctly the day that I went to my manager

[00:14:38] and said we know we're supposed to have our career development discussion but I want to take it in a

[00:14:44] different direction than what you are thinking I believe the next best step for me is to leave

[00:14:53] the company now I didn't have something else lined up I wasn't leaving for another job

[00:14:59] I said I know we are planning to exit certain jobs out of New York City specifically technology jobs

[00:15:09] why don't I help you reach the target and create the prototype for how that would work

[00:15:15] for a three-year program that'll be in play now this was quite a few years ago

[00:15:21] um and I said at the end I want a package I want to be able to have a golden parachute so

[00:15:27] I can figure out what I want to be when I grow up next and what happened from there was surprising

[00:15:36] and exciting and happened much faster than I could have imagined I thought I was going to take two

[00:15:41] years to find myself and to get my then toddler um into school age and and in the right place so that

[00:15:54] I could continue my career but on a different trajectory what ended up happening is one fateful day

[00:16:02] I got a phone call from an entrepreneur futurist and exceptional business leader named Paul Miller

[00:16:11] who was running then internet benchmarking forum now digital workplace group

[00:16:17] and he said I'd love to expand the business into North America would you like to help me

[00:16:24] hmm and that meant opening up my roller decks and selling for the first time I'd never done

[00:16:32] anything like that arguably you can say you sell and everything that you do but I met sell on a

[00:16:38] commercial level and that is how my connection to DWG was born didn't plan for it but you know

[00:16:48] what I said yes and I took on every role I could along the way started as a freelancer um helped build

[00:16:57] a business and um you know ultimately stepped in as CEO first of the year 2023

[00:17:08] that's good what gave you the courage to initiate that conversation and make that statement

[00:17:15] to your manager at the time I mean what what did it feel like that morning driving in right

[00:17:21] readying yourself mentally to save that so I'll add another layer it was done remotely

[00:17:29] okay even more channel than if yes at that time my manager and I both worked from home on Friday

[00:17:36] and it happened to be a Friday when we were having this conversation we had done the performance

[00:17:43] review part of things in person but the career development side we felt comfortable doing

[00:17:48] remotely and so we did and I don't have to tell you my heart was pounding because I knew nothing

[00:17:56] other than the Wall Street life and at my career up until that point so I worked for one employer

[00:18:05] for the duration since college you you had always been there yeah fresh out of college

[00:18:10] so I was nervous going into it but I was prepared um I had the conversation with my manager

[00:18:18] and then I burst into tears as soon as I got off the call because it you know it was in my DNA

[00:18:25] by that point working for this wonderful organization but for

[00:18:31] um my life to get to where it needed to be next it was time for a pivot and each day I remember

[00:18:41] my manager saying your smile is growing bigger and bigger and it ended up that we had a six

[00:18:49] month timeline for this relocation strategy project and it happened in three and so I just had

[00:18:59] momentum on the other side of that conversation and a sense of freedom because I felt almost like

[00:19:06] a child in a sense um getting ready for a big adventure that I had no idea you know where it was

[00:19:12] going to take right and suddenly I started feeding off of that excitement and and here we are today

[00:19:20] that's good that's really good what do you want to accomplish doing your time in the chair of CEO

[00:19:27] what will you walk away or what do you want to walk away saying about your time in that position

[00:19:36] so I think it's it's really simple first and foremost I want to help

[00:19:43] DWG reach its full potential um we are a hidden pearl in a lot of ways in our industry although we work

[00:19:52] with you know lots of major corporates that are household names um from you know from 3M to the

[00:20:01] Coca-Cola company to Barclays and you know and many others but I do see tremendous growth potential

[00:20:10] for DWG and I think about that on three layers or three levels the team our members and the

[00:20:19] organization itself and we are at a point where the future of work is now um we're in the

[00:20:30] you know past the birth of the age of AI um into a point in time where things are changing very

[00:20:39] rapidly on a technological level and people need support to be able to rise to the new pace of

[00:20:48] change and to um be able to transform what they're doing because AI is very present and that will

[00:21:00] only continue to intensify but there are many other things that we need to be able to do digitally

[00:21:06] day-to-day to converse to collaborate to innovate you know all the things I said earlier

[00:21:14] and so I just feel as though we've got a formula for success that can help a much wider circle

[00:21:24] of organizations than we do today so growth on those three levels team members and organization

[00:21:34] the other thing is you know I can't wait to come to my desk or to wherever I am you know if I'm

[00:21:41] at a client location on any given day and I think the reason why is because I'm surrounded by

[00:21:48] amazing people whether it's colleagues or clients what we call our members and so um you know

[00:21:56] continuing to surround myself with amazing people that put spring in my step and it's it's a must-have

[00:22:02] for me it's like air um not to forget that lesson my husband challenged me to take on which is to

[00:22:11] make sure that I still find time to stop and smell the roses maybe pee and ease in my case that's

[00:22:16] my favorite uh flower but also that I have a responsibility to share my sparkle with others we all need

[00:22:24] to share what we know um share our curiosity to help take things forward absolutely and just

[00:22:32] to lean in and continue to live in that land of yes that's good that's good and what would you

[00:22:40] what would you tell the 20-year-old Nancy if you had a chance to go back and give her some advice

[00:22:46] um I think there are a few short lessons that you can take from just this conversation today

[00:22:57] one is to always be the student of your craft I think part of the reason why I've been able to

[00:23:04] shape shift over the years is because I'm always reading and taking in information about

[00:23:12] industry, about business, about technology um I also think this notion of walk the way of the

[00:23:19] warrior is critically important face your fears and do something positive with that fear

[00:23:28] live in the land of yes um because opportunities flow from that um pay it forward right share your

[00:23:39] sparkle um because you always have something you can give to another to support their progress

[00:23:48] and their development and it comes back to you manyfold and an often in surprising ways but the

[00:23:56] last thing I would say that we haven't talked about that I would add to the equation is master

[00:24:03] the art of storytelling um say more so when you take on a new project or a new challenge

[00:24:14] you need to bring people along the ride with you most of us trade on social capital right give to get

[00:24:23] in order to move things forward and to bring people along for the ride especially if you're managing

[00:24:29] by influence more than managing by a direct team and I've done that a lot of my career

[00:24:35] you have to be a compelling storyteller to bring them along with you if part of what they're doing

[00:24:42] is volunteering their time to help your project but then on the other side um you have to be able to

[00:24:51] show the value the output of whatever project or role you're working on on the other

[00:24:59] side and so you know every role every project needs to have a payoff for the organization

[00:25:10] what is the return on investment that's being made hard and or soft and being able to tell that

[00:25:18] story backed by numbers is really important as well and often on the other side of a success

[00:25:28] people don't remember the numbers they remember the story that's good Nancy that's so good let me

[00:25:34] close with this question one thing that seems painfully obvious to me is attitude outlook

[00:25:44] perspective and it feels intentional when you talked about some of the advice points to your

[00:25:51] earlier self but a most part they were in that space right talk about also earlier being a um

[00:25:57] also a lifetime learner right being a student of your industry etc but to me the undergirding of all

[00:26:03] of that was about positive outlook perspective optimistic optimism etc how do you keep yourself in that

[00:26:10] frame of mind so I'll share two things one is I have a dream board that sits at the foot of my bed

[00:26:22] so every day when I wake up it's the first thing I see and my dream board captures

[00:26:31] things that I want to accomplish on four levels body spirit mind heart because I think those are

[00:26:40] the layers that make up an individual and so um what sits on the dream board changes in time

[00:26:48] so for example when I lost my husband I had to figure out what I wanted out of life next and so

[00:26:55] you know I created a whole new dream board at that point in time and I've been adding to it ever since

[00:27:02] as I've been figuring out what I want next out of life um the other thing is that it might

[00:27:09] surprise you to hear that I work from home 80% of the time issue um and when I travel it's usually

[00:27:16] to spend time with my team or with our members um when I'm when I'm home I'm working in my favorite

[00:27:24] room in my house and I start every day meditating I light a candle it has um an oil burner with my

[00:27:35] favorite scent which is patchouli and I've I ground myself I call it my mental commute because

[00:27:42] I don't have a physical commute and often when we have physical commutes that allows us to transition

[00:27:49] from home life to work life and so that moment allows me to shift mindset from Nancy at home

[00:28:00] to Nancy in her role at DWG so setting the tone for the day is really important and what do I want

[00:28:09] to accomplish again body spirit mine heart for the day so good so good Nancy goable if people want

[00:28:17] to reach out to you learn more about you learn more about DWG what do you advise um hit me up on LinkedIn

[00:28:27] or on x either way is absolutely fine um and and of course um if they can catch digital workplace

[00:28:36] impact along the way that would be great too in the podcast yes yeah exactly so good to see you as

[00:28:42] always thank you for joining thank you so much for the opportunity James great to catch up with you

[00:28:48] and what a wonderful conversation thank you