61 - Live Interview with Cranford Blackmon

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:29] And welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. I'm your host, Mike Chapman. And if you would like to join us live, like the members of our audience are right now, you can learn more about how to do so on my website, polarlifeconsulting.com slash live.

[00:00:50] And a reminder to our audience members, if you would like to ask a question to our guest, feel free to do so. Just type that into the chat and we want to honor anonymity. So we will only say your name if you manually type it in with your question.

[00:01:10] And with that, I would like to welcome Cranford Blackmon to the podcast. Cranford is a former Air Force officer, federal agent, police officer and army soldier. And he's also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, familial trafficking and ritual abuse. Now he speaks and teaches to support male survivors of sexual abuse, prevent violence, empower survivors, and

[00:01:40] support organizations, and support organizations serving survivors. He believes that with education and empowerment, violence against women, children, and indigenous populations can become a thing of the past. So welcome Cranford. And we're going to begin like we do every week with four questions.

[00:02:02] Now it's time for four questions. Now it's time for four questions. That part of the podcast when we get to know our guest a bit better by asking a few questions. Let's go. So Cranford, what is your favorite food memory? Let's see. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on, Mike. I appreciate it. Yeah, you're quite welcome. You honor me and my audience with your presence.

[00:02:25] Thank you. I would say my favorite food memory was when I was stationed over in Berlin, Germany. And I was amazed that even though I couldn't speak the language when I got there, every time I went to a restaurant, I just pointed at stuff on the menu. I was never disappointed. I bet. Yes.

[00:02:49] So many gravies and sauces. It was just glorious being there. Thank goodness I was in the army or who knows what would have happened to me as much food as I ate over there. Right. Excellent. Yes, I do love German food. And it's hard to find in the States. Larger cities will have German restaurants, but in rural Carolina, not a lot. So that's wonderful. So what were you, some of your favorite dishes that you've had in Germany?

[00:03:19] Oh, there was one that never got old and it's Jägerschnitzel. Okay. It's like a fried pork patty with this wonderful gravy on it and sauteed mushrooms. Nice. Even when it was bad, it was still pretty good. Yes. In fact, I visited Colorado recently, husband material retreat. The leaders beforehand, we had a pre-retreat and we went to a German restaurant. And I think that's what I ordered.

[00:03:45] I think that's exactly what I ordered at this German restaurant. That was pretty good. I really enjoyed it. Let's see. So what is your favorite Christmas or holiday memory? Oh, let's say probably one of the earliest Christmases I can remember. Uh, and I don't have a whole lot of, of memories from back then, but I do remember when I was very young, I must've been maybe three or four.

[00:04:11] And I got a train, just a little simple train, but you could put a battery in it. And then you would put a little drip of three in one oil down the smokestack and it would smoke as it went around. And I remember the smell of that. I thought it was so wonderful that my little train had smoke coming out. Now it was, of course it was knowing now it was probably carcinogenic smoke there. Probably. Yeah.

[00:04:38] But it was a very happy thing that my little train even made smoke. It's, it's probably the earliest Christmas memory. Wow. Cool. Was one of those Lionels with the three track or those are the bigger ones? Or was it like the little teeny tiny? Yeah. I suppose the whole track might've been an 18 inch circle. It was very small. Oh, okay. So very, very tiny. Wow. But working nice. I think that's N. That might be N.

[00:05:06] Yeah. I, my uncle was in two model trains. So I learned about all the different sizes and so forth. So excellent. Excellent. So what is your favorite church or house of worship memory? I would say a long time ago, I got to see the Gaither band. Oh, yes. And it was wonderful. It was the Gaither, let's see, was it the Gaither trio at the time? Or, I mean, they've gone through a couple of iterations.

[00:05:36] Right. Several different names. Yes, exactly. It was so energetic. I mean, it was such an uplifting, just energy filled event. And I was just, I was amazed at it. And of course, that's before I realized how long Bill and Gloria Gaither had been around. And then you look in a hymnal at church and you're like, wait a minute, Bill and Gloria Gaither are in the hymnal. Yeah.

[00:06:02] But it was great. It just filled me up. You know, I was so full of energy that evening. It was wonderful. Nice. So what is your favorite scripture or any inspirational quote that has helped you on your spiritual journey? And what about it speaks to you? I actually have a quote hanging on my wall and it's from Eleanor Roosevelt. And it is,

[00:06:26] you must do the thing you think you cannot do. I remember I saw that years ago and it was only later that I found a painting with it on there. But to look at the challenges you feel that any of us feel that have had some of the experiences that we've had as a child, there's a whole lot you think you cannot do. And whether it's getting up in front of a group and speaking or sharing the story of what

[00:06:55] happened, or even just deciding to have a friend that you let get a little bit closer into your intimate circle that you're okay sharing with. And so that has really been positive for me, that if it's really scary, then maybe it's something I could lean into for some healing. Right. Right. Absolutely. Yes. And that ties in one quote I heard recently,

[00:07:24] chase your pain and you will find your healing. Yeah. Very similar to that. But yeah, that's a great quote. Eleanor Roosevelt. Excellent. And let's see. So from there, would love to hear about your story. I know you've got an abuse history and you mentioned that in your intro. Oftentimes our stories bounce back, backward and forward on the timeline, depending on when things come up, when things happen,

[00:07:52] when things are discovered. So feel free to bounce around whatever you feel you need to do. I'll probably pop in with some questions here and there as will our audience. And after you tell your story, then I'd love to learn more about your healing journey, what things you've tried that have worked, that have been helpful, and what things you've tried that were not so helpful or not helpful at all. And then what you are doing now. And you've got a huge list of how involved you are. And that's how the two of us got

[00:08:20] connected. We were both at a conference recently online and you were sharing and we were able to reach out from that. So we'd love to learn more about what you're doing these days, especially those things that help survivors, specifically male survivors, which is wonderful. So please tell us more about Cranford.

[00:08:42] Okay. It's interesting about when you're saying we jump around sometimes and that's how my memories happened for me. My abuse happened when I was very young from the time I was still in diapers. Right. And by the way, I will try to say nothing that's too graphic. I don't want to be triggering to anyone without their consent to hear the harsher stuff. Right. No, we do have trigger warnings in each

[00:09:12] episode. So, and if it's too, too graphic, I will edit it out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think anybody needs to hear the horrible graphics. Exactly. Yes. But yeah, mine started while I was still in diapers and the things that happened to me, I didn't start remembering very well until I was, I think, 52. Wow. After I started doing a little research, I learned that a lot of men who have had

[00:09:42] stuff happen as children, whether they remembered or not generally don't disclose until they're around 50, which really surprised me. Right. According to Doug Carpenter's research in his book, Secret Shame, he says on average, 25 years is average from the time the abuse stops till the time of first disclosure, even telling anyone about what happened, whether that's repressed memories or you're just not

[00:10:09] telling anyone or you file it away. I've talked to some people who just filed it away and just didn't think about it, but it wasn't necessarily repressed. It was just kind of filed away and ignored. But yeah, that's, that's very common. Yes. It's such a painful thought for me to think of how many boys and men have lived with that for so long with no way to let it out, no safe place to let someone hear their

[00:10:36] story. Because I mean, for me, I think to hold that stuff in, it's, it's like a poison and all it does is make you sick, whether it's through your emotions or your body or whatever. Right. So sad to me, but I'll get back to tell my story. I started remembering when I was about 52. Now throughout my life, I've had a

[00:10:59] couple of memories of dreams. I'm doing air quotes, dreams that I thought were just dreams. I mean, they were horrible nightmares, stuff that made no sense. And I remember having them. Oh my gosh, I was probably as early as in the first grade. Wow. And just terrible things, including some of the ritualistic stuff that I experienced. Right. And I always thought it was, they were just terrible. But

[00:11:29] as I got older, I started remembering, I'm like, there's no way a child could have a dream like that because the imagery there was all adult and of adult doing adults, doing terrible things. It would make no sense for a child that's two, three, four, five to be able to even have a dream like that. So that's really all I had to hold on to. I knew that there was a few things from my mom.

[00:11:55] And I don't know if I said before, but my, my dad was my abuser. Now my mom, I don't think she knew about it. I mean, she always worked nights. We were not a wealthy family. You can't work where you can. Right. So a lot of the things that happened, my dad did or with his friends or with his group or with his, I don't even know what to call it. You wouldn't call it a church. There are a lot of

[00:12:19] church-based trafficking groups, sadly, that are based out of some kind of house of worship, sometimes involving leaders, sometimes not. Yeah. And well, mine was satanic ritual, so I wouldn't call that a church. But yes. But yeah, but my mom, I do remember a few things and I really believe

[00:12:41] believe that that was a young mom, not understanding the right and wrong way to show affection to her baby boy. And I have a couple of memories of that. And I thought maybe it was a one-off, but my sister, who's older than me, she told me once I finally was able to talk about it, she said, no, that happened a lot. She's like, that was, luckily, I don't have memories of all those,

[00:13:10] but it was really difficult because it, as I look back after having remembered and recognizing some of that, how it affected my relationships of what should be a pleasant, normal experience. Even the act of kissing could come across to me as almost stomach turning,

[00:13:33] even watching movies where there's a romantic scene going on. And for some reason, I would have to just look away because it was bothering me. And for a long time, I didn't know why that was. Wow. But now I know. Right. But the thing that really got my memory to open up, a few years before I remembered a young girl who's like a daughter to me, she was my oldest daughter's best friend in college and she got attacked.

[00:14:03] And all attacks are terrible, but this guy was vile and abused her and tortured her. And she ended up in the hospital, couldn't have children after that. Right. And it upset me so much because she tried the things that girls are taught and it didn't work. And I was so angry. I'm like, why isn't there something for people that are of any size, any shape?

[00:14:27] And no kidding, Mike, it's like I heard it. The voice that said, well, why haven't you done anything? And I'm like, oh, wow. So I started building a program and part of what I did, and I'm not going to talk about the program. That's my women's program. I won't talk about that now. But one of the things that I always did was I would read books written by women, by women survivors, so that I could

[00:14:55] hear the way they speak and the way they explain things so that I could connect more and try to understand the best way to communicate with a survivor. Right. Now, this is still before I had my memories. Right. So one night I was sitting in the living room and I was reading a book called The Courage to Heal. I don't know if you've seen that. It's a great book and it's two women that

[00:15:21] wrote it. I think it's in its 25th edition now. And they wrote it for women. Right. But it's stories of women's trauma and their survival stories and how things have been since. So I was reading it to try to grasp even more because I know as a man, I can't understand a woman's view of trauma and sexual abuse or sexual assault. So that was me trying to understand it. But

[00:15:47] as I was reading it, I'm reading all these adult symptoms that these women are experiencing from stuff that happened when they were younger or as a child. And I kind of chuckled to myself. I'm like, wow, that sounds like me. I do all that stuff. And I'm reading some more. And all of a sudden, while sitting there in the living room in my house, it's like the door to my memory opened up

[00:16:12] and then closed again. But the horrible stuff I saw in those few moments, it left me literally speechless. I could not speak. I could barely breathe. My wife's in the kitchen and she looks at me. She's like, Kran, are you okay? And I couldn't speak. I just shook my head. No, no. My wife is also a survivor of abuse. So she has an understanding of what some of that looks like

[00:16:40] when somebody's responding. And it was so strange because, I mean, there was a lot of horrible imagery from the satanic part. Right. Wow. Got some emotion coming on up. I'm going to grab my little don't dissociate toy that I keep with me. That's funny. I've never heard it called that before. But yeah, that's good. I've got my own different things. I drink. I do have this. Usually

[00:17:05] that's if I get, if I feel angry, that kind of keeps me together, but a little once I start feeling the feels again, it's like, okay, I need to not go away here. Right. But she was just like, I mean, and I really felt it. It felt like there were claws digging into my neck on both sides

[00:17:31] and saying to me, you will not talk about this. Wow. And so there was a little bit of horrifying stuff going on. And I really, I could not say a word. Right. It's like gasping for air. So anyway, my wife comes over and sits down with me and helps me to calm. But it was then that I had a whole bunch of

[00:17:57] brand new images in my head of things that had happened to me. And then I was very clear that those, and again, I'm doing air quotes, the dreams, the nightmares I had were not nightmares. They were memories. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I know I have repressed memories as well that have come out and I describe it as it's a vault that they're locked up in a vault, but the vault leaks and it informs

[00:18:23] your choices, how you do things. And you don't realize it all subconsciously until you can get those doors open and really understand what's behind there, which it sounds like you did in spades. Yeah. It was a challenging night and the weeks after were challenging too. I tell you, interesting thing that came about from this was to look back at my life and it made more sense why I'm like I am.

[00:18:52] Right. Why I have an extremely small circle of people that I allow to get close to me. Why there are certain places I don't like to be. Why there are certain sounds that really bother me. I mean, my whole life hearing babies or children scream or cry, it's horrible to me. And now I know it was not only me, but the other children that were there. It can just immediately put me into a

[00:19:19] almost like a re-traumatizing place. But I was a grownup and you know, with my background in law enforcement and the military, instead of dissociating, I'm suddenly in high alert looking for danger everywhere. Who's hurting someone? I've got to find them. I've got to find them. Right. So yeah, it was interesting to see how some of the symptoms of protecting myself from others,

[00:19:46] not letting anyone get close to me, having more female friends than guy friends. Most of my abusers were male, but I had some female abusers too. So it made sense. Right. But yeah, after that, I had a couple of very difficult weeks. And so my wife, she's like, I know I can tell you're challenged. I'm like, yeah, I don't know what to do with this. So this

[00:20:10] was just suddenly something horrible. What do I do with this monstrous mass of grossness that has fallen into my lap and I can't get rid of now? I started thinking, where can I get help? Now, of course I use the VA as a veteran and my wife called up because I was going too slow. And she said, my husband is in need. You guys need to schedule him right now. Right. So they had me

[00:20:36] come in and I got to talk to a psychiatrist briefly. I said, do you have someone I can speak to a counselor or therapist? And they said, well, we don't do childhood trauma. I'm like, you've got to have somebody. And they're like, no. And even if we did, I mean, what we do is trauma that happened while you're on active duty. And that's kind of what we cover. He said, I can set

[00:21:03] you up with somebody. I'm like, do it, do it then. So he set me an appointment with one of the counselors and I was excited because I've never had to share anything like this, but I had this weight on me that I needed to get off of me. Right. So I remember going in and I had high hopes about it and I shared a little bit and the guy said, well, I don't have any training in childhood abuse or sexual abuse.

[00:21:31] He said, but I've got a lot of experience with guys with PTSD and such. So let's do what we can. I'm like, great, let's do that. So I start sharing my memories with him. Um, and no kidding. The first question he asked me was, well, what makes you think your memories are even real? Yeah. Mike, I was furious immediately. And you have a reason to feel that way. Yes,

[00:21:58] absolutely. And so, and a bit harsher of a way than I'll share with you. I asked him, well, what makes you think your memories are real? And he just kind of shrugged his shoulders and said, well, I guess you got me there. Um, do you want to let's set up another appointment? I said, no, I'm no therapist, but I'm pretty sure that one of the things you're supposed to do is listen to me and

[00:22:23] believe me, at least believe that I believe what I'm sharing with you, not ask me if I'm crazy or something. So I kind of went on the search again to find help. And I reached out to some of the national groups because I couldn't find anybody locally. And they shared with me, we can send you some literature, but that's really all we can do. Uh, and I said, I don't think literature is going to

[00:22:50] cut it with what I've got going on with pamphlets. I appreciate it, but that's not going to work for me. And so I started calling women's shelters to say, are there things for men that you love because the counseling network, the network of survivor supporters, right? They didn't, but the lady there, she said, but we'll see you come on in. We will help you. And surely enough, I went and

[00:23:20] the young girl who was there, who was my counselor. So young. Well, I mean, everybody looks young, you know, once we start getting to a certain age, but she's asking me questions and just being wonderfully professional and doing a great job. And I was so closed off because the inside of me was saying, who are you? I wasn't going to say this to her out loud because I'm not a harsh guy, but my thoughts were, who are you sitting there on your high horse with your special education about

[00:23:50] this stuff, trying to tell me what I should do. Now it's funny because I wanted to be there, but there was my resistance and she was very calm with me. And so what I did say is, why are you here? Why are you helping people like this? And she shared her story. She was also abused as a child by her family. And all of a sudden, my first thought was she's broken like I am. Yeah. You know, and from

[00:24:19] then on our relationship, our therapeutic relationship opened right up and right here for about a year and a half. I think it was really, really helpful for me. Yeah. But yeah, that's, that's where I started finally getting some help after that. And I really appreciated some of the questions she would ask me

[00:24:44] and how very open and gentle she was. Truly enough, we're not messing with 52 year old Cranford anymore. Now we're kind of poking and prodding tiny little me who's two or three years old. Right. Pulling their memories up. Yeah. I have so much appreciation for her and for that organization that helped me when there was nobody else. I guess something I learned from that is,

[00:25:10] if you want help, it's out there somewhere. You didn't expect to go to a women's shelter to get counseling, but man, it was probably a lifesaver for me. Excellent. And what year was this? So you were at 52. How old are you now? I'm 50. Wow. You're asking me math questions. I know, but I'm just asking you the data and I'll get, I'll do the math. So how old are you now? I turned 57 this year, I think.

[00:25:38] Okay. So that was five years ago. So that would have been 2019. Boy, that seems longer, but it seems like it was longer than that, but. I know. I was 30 when I remembered the abuse. I was, it was 2019 when I remembered the trafficking when it came out. So yeah, we're on similar journeys for sure. Okay. So you're having the

[00:26:04] memories. Did you realize right away that it was your family for sure that had brought you or did that take some uncovering as well? I think it showed up pretty quick for me because I just so weird to share this, but the group listening will understand. I had this memory of my dad naked and we'll just say excited.

[00:26:28] And part of that was where I figured out some of my age from that, because I remember my head, my face being just a little above his knee. Right. Okay. That probably puts me around four, maybe five. Right. But then I was also having memories of stuff that was earlier than that. And I would have questioned

[00:26:54] my own memories about really young memories because people say you can't have memories from a certain age on, but I remember. It depends on who you talk to. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had an experience where I was telling my mom back when she was alive, I said, I remember something and I want you to tell me if this is accurate. And I described a funeral service where we were. And she said, what? You can't remember

[00:27:24] that. And I said, I do. I remember the curtains were red. I remember where the casket was. I remember the big circle of flowers that were over by the chairs where we were supposed to sit so people could come by. And she said, there's no way you can remember that. I still was carrying you. You weren't walking yet. And I'm like, okay, I can't explain it. But because I have that memory and that confirmation of an extremely early memory that she recognized and said, yeah, that's how it was.

[00:27:53] It made me believe more in my memories. I mean, trusting them. Yes. I suppose it's really common for all of us who go through this to suddenly do deep dives into research of how are my memories? Right. And then I know a therapist can help. There's different things you can do to help confirm memories that they can do where they can kind of hit your subconscious. And yeah. And like you,

[00:28:19] my abuse started very, very young, probably around seven months is guesstimate. So you're looking through these memories and you're now realizing, okay, family's behind this. Yeah. And I don't have a lot of childhood memories, but I do remember my dad was just kind of a harsh guy. It still is easy for me to believe that he would do the things he did if it made some other

[00:28:47] people treat him like he was important. So really narcissistic. The way he would get laughs would be to put us down, me or my sister or my mom, and just really mean, really mean. Not violent that I can remember. Right. Emotionally and psychologically, it seemed like it just tickled him to make people hurt.

[00:29:12] Like there was a joy in the humiliation of it too. I do remember a time that he gave me a spanking, you know, Southern family and there's spankings for everybody. Even your neighbor, if they catch you doing something, you shouldn't. Right. Where did you grow up? Alabama. We moved around a lot. And I think that's some of what my dad's stuff was, but Alabama,

[00:29:34] Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina. Okay. But also times up in Nebraska and South Dakota and Minnesota. But I lost my little train of thought there. You were talking about the abuse and the power trip that he got. Just the harshness. Yeah. Oh, and that's what it was. I remember a time I got a spanking. He used to run a gas station in a small

[00:30:00] town in Alabama. And I was small and I was just walking through the shop, tapping on things with a hammer because they made neat sounds. And I tapped something that broke. I went and showed him and he was really upset yelling at me about how expensive it was. And he's the guy that liked to whip with his belt. But instead of just giving me a whip in there, he took me out to where there was a bunch of people

[00:30:27] so they could watch. I'm like, how? It just astonishes me that somebody would want to do that. I want to whip my kid in front of other people so you can watch me. Like it made him feel strong or something. Right. And the humiliation as well. Yeah. So it's very easy for me to believe that he got into a group that had some darker religious things. If they suggested to him that

[00:30:56] he would be special if he brought his boy in and that boy being me ended up being used in all kinds of rituals. And a lot of times it was basically rape of a child over and over rooms with 15 to 20 men in them. And how many boys were at these things? Were you the only one or was it several?

[00:31:16] In those, it was just me. So and I remember too, that there were women there that sort of got me ready for that event with some really inappropriate stuff. And then afterwards, there was kind of the mind game of someone coming in and being very motherly. What a good boy you are. You know, you did great. You're so and just I mean, what a twisted mind game to play on a toddler.

[00:31:46] Back up. What would they do to prep you that would be inappropriate? I don't know if you can share without being too graphic. But if you have to be graphic. Yeah. I would love to know more about that. I don't understand the trafficking and the ritual abuse side. I think it wasn't to like get me prepared for it. It's like they were preparing a thing for the ritual.

[00:32:13] So they were doing all nude, doing stuff to me, inappropriate stuff. It's like they were building their own energy up. So like touching you inappropriately? Or OK. And not just in what you would think of as a boy, can you even say normal sexual when you're talking about a child? Also quite disgusting as well. So it wasn't like it was preparing me so

[00:32:40] I would be ready for it unless they were looking at me as the thing that we are going to use in our ritual. And then they would hand me over to the men. Right. And thank you for sharing. Yeah, some pretty horrible memories and images. I'm sure. I'm sure. After I saw that therapist for a while, she ended up moving to be closer to family because she was pregnant. And so I was without

[00:33:04] therapy for a while and I thought I was doing OK. And then I wasn't. So I called the VA again and they said, you want to come in and try somebody else? And I said, OK, I'm getting in dire straits enough. I'm willing to risk it. And there was a new guy there and he was incredible. Absolutely incredible. I was so fortunate to work with him. And it was I think it was good for me that it was a

[00:33:29] male this time. Right. I mean, the first guy, the one who really didn't know how to speak to a male and then the one that helped me female. And then this one was male. But I mean, what a huge heart this guy had that he could hear and his compassion and openness. And it's interesting. I remember one of the first few times sitting in front of his desk, he was asking me, so do you have anxiety

[00:33:57] issues or panic? Anything going on? I said, yeah, I'm having one right now. He said, what do you mean you're having one right now? I said, I can feel my heart rates up. I can tell my blood pressures up. I can feel my skin getting hot. My breathing has changed. He said, right now that's going on? I'm like, yeah. He said, I can't see that at all. I have no idea that you're in distress. I'm like, well, I guess I've been practicing this. Right. Yeah. We've got good poker faces

[00:34:26] and we're good at masking. It's a survival symptom because if you displayed weakness that could be used against you. Yeah, exactly. And as an adult now, we've got to keep functioning. We've got to keep a job, got to be able to make the rent payment and pay for the groceries. Right. So, yeah, I guess a lot of us keep the screws really tight and maybe that's part of what

[00:34:53] can make us pretty sick emotionally or psychologically. And I don't mean sick like twisted because I don't believe the thing. Have you ever heard of like the vampire model? Right. Yes. If you're abused, you're going to be an abuser. I'm like, that's a bunch of bull. I do not believe that whatsoever. And it's been disproven with statistics. It's actually a very small percentage. Yeah. And it was based on faulty research done with prisoners that if they admitted

[00:35:22] that if they were abused, there was a bunch of abusers that they would get special treatment and so forth. So there was an incentive to basically lie because they would get some easier time with prison. So then eventually that was all debunked those stats. And the truth is, yeah, very small percentage of those who have been abused turn around and become perpetrators. Absolutely.

[00:35:47] So when I say that the sickness, what I mean is the sadness we can't share. You know, the fear we have of places and things that everybody else enjoys. The inability to have a close friendship because especially as children, we learn to trust. We're supposed to be able to trust the big people, the grownups. And if it was your parents, like in my case, my first lesson was there's no one to

[00:36:16] trust. The very people that should be protecting me with their lives are the people doing the monstrous things. So that's, that's what I mean when I talk about the emotional and the psychological sickness that comes from that toxic stuff that we just hold in there and don't know how to get rid of. And I think the only way is get it out verbally or in writing or something to it.

[00:36:41] That's autobiographical journaling. My recent podcast episode on ACEs, adverse childhood experiences. Someone asked, I've got a super high score. What can I do to counteract that? And the expert said, by autobiographical journaling, which in other words, tell your story, whether by writing, by sharing, by telling, by whatever you need to do, get it out of your head and it helps with your

[00:37:06] healing. For sure. Yeah, I believe it. I told my wife, I said, it feels like there's all this stuff that's inside, like something that's fermenting and creating gas that will make a bottle explode. But to share a little, it's cracking open the pressure cooker just a little bit to let some of the pressure off. And if you do it over and over, all of a sudden the pressure doesn't hurt. There's still some pressure. There's still challenges,

[00:37:31] challenges, but it's not as bad. And I think that's where we find our, maybe it's our first steps even to finding some healing and some relief from what we've hidden to protect ourselves for so long. Right. Absolutely. And I know you were brought to these groups and ritual abuse was a big part, satanic ritual abuse in your case. Was there any mind control? Because I know that's often common in

[00:37:59] those situations. And I believe it was part of my own story, but did you, have you discovered or have disclosed that, yeah, mind control was part of the picture as well? I feel like it was. And even from that initial thing where I remembered and suddenly the claws in my throat and the voice in my head that said, you will not speak about this. You know, I mean, and I've read other stories of people

[00:38:25] in satanic ritual abuse where their abusers are telling them, Satan's going to get you. We're leaving a demon with you. You talk about it. He's going to get you. God's never going to love you again. They're going to get your family, stuff like that. When you're hearing that as a child, it's concrete truth and fact to you because we don't have the ability to think logically about it or

[00:38:50] think outside of what they've been telling us. And at that young age, if there's a disaster or someone dies, I must have caused it. I did something wrong. So the abuse, I did something wrong. I wasn't good enough. That's how little children think. It's like the whole, I'm hiding under a blanket, therefore I can't see you. So you must not be able to see me. So this is a good hiding place. And then you take

[00:39:16] the blanket off and know you, you were seen the entire time, but that's how that young mind, egocentric brain works. That everything is my fault. Mom and dad get divorced. I must not have been good enough. That's how the brain thinks. So yes, you get programmed. You tell these horrible things are going to happen to you. You will believe that. Absolutely. You will believe that. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:41] And the other thing that makes me believe there was mind control stuff is there. If I see a light that's flashing, sometimes it's not bad, but if it's, I can't pinpoint what it is, but there are some flashing lights that make me immediately nauseous. And I remember when you're coming up to a traffic light and they'll have the flashing yellow lights that says you're coming up to a stoplight.

[00:40:07] Right. And there was one close to where I lived, but it started glitching and it wasn't flashing correctly. And I, I had to put my hand up to block it from my vision. It would make me so sick driving down the road, seeing it. Yeah. I remember parking at an airport waiting for my wife and there was a, a bulb acting up, you know, on a building next to me. And it was the way it flashed. It just put me

[00:40:35] into a spin. I mean, it was horrible. So. Right. I know for me, it's, it's bright lights, especially if I'm trying to sleep and there's really bright lights. Yeah. It, but I know where that's from for me back in the day when they were documenting, they would use those big super eight cameras and you'd have to have lots of lights. So they would have these big old floodlight bulbs, huge shining down a hundred or so Watts each to get enough light on the subject. So it would show

[00:41:05] up on film. And yeah, if that was documented in that way, doing that and the light bulbs of flash bulbs for the steel cameras combination of the two, I'm sure. So any of those strong lights. Yeah. It's quite triggering for me as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So that, that leads me to believe that there was some extra manipulation going on. Right. I mean, on top of the things like the motherly types after

[00:41:34] having been abused time after time, after time in one night and left on the floor, broken and bleeding. And then to all of a sudden be treated like I had done something great. That's, it amazes me that people can think to twist a child's brain like that. And one of the ways I've come to think of it, and it's the only way I can really understand that something like this would happen, was that those

[00:42:00] people in the satanic stuff, it's like they were trying to think of how, what can we do to most show God how much we hate him? What's the purest thing that we can defile? What are the ways that we can defile it? And I mean, that's what it seems like because when I, the stuff that I remembered and then through some more therapy, you know, some EMDR therapy that where I've had some new memories

[00:42:27] that I did not like, I just look at it and I go, there's no way that was a turn on for somebody. That was gross using, well, let's say deceased things and such. And it's, it's the only thing I can grasp is that it was people trying to prove to God how much they hated anything good and pure.

[00:42:51] Right. Absolutely. And the Bible talks about that, the millstone, there's a verse about millstone, anyone who causes one of these little ones to fall, it'd be better if you were thrown in the water with the big millstone tied around. And if you know what biblical millstone was, where they would grind weed into flour, they were these huge monstrous things that would weigh, yeah, like a ton or more.

[00:43:16] Yeah. That's how bad that is. And it's just like, yeah, totally in your face. Absolutely. So you've talked about your therapy, you mentioned disclosure. So obviously you disclosed to your wife right away. When were you able to tell anyone else? Like, it sounds like you talked to your, your other family members, siblings. That's a good question because I actually didn't talk to anybody

[00:43:45] other than my wife for a while. I kept it all to myself. And I was in this, it was like a marketing course. Okay. And I was at an event and some of the people who had graduated were up on a stage speaking. And this one guy got up and he shared, he said, I've never told anybody this, but I was sexually abused as a child. And it's great to know that here I am now on this stage being a successful

[00:44:12] man. And I kind of, I was stunned. And so during a break, I saw him in the back of the room. I said, Hey, excuse me, can I talk to you for a minute? And he said, well, I'm, I'm pretty busy. I got all this going on. What's it about? I said, the thing you mentioned that happened to you as a child, it happened to me. And he looked at me, looked over at somebody working with him. He goes, Hey, I need you to take over my spot. I've got to go do something. So he takes me and my wife out to the

[00:44:41] lobby because we're in this big conference hotel. And we go find an area where there's nobody there. And he sits down with me and gently talks and shares his story. I mean, he was, it was so good because I didn't realize what my body was doing, but I was suddenly holding my neck, clutching at it like I'm protecting it. And he said, Hey, you're, you're safe. I see you're, you're covering your

[00:45:07] neck. It's okay. You're safe here. Nothing bad's going to happen. And I didn't even realize I was covering my throat up. And so I put my arm down and he was talking again and just sharing so gently and so wonderfully. And he goes, just relax. I see that your knuckles are white. You're squeezing your arms so tight. It's okay. And I wasn't able to share anything with him, but he could see

[00:45:31] everything that was going on. And when we were going to go back in, he's like, are you okay if I hug you? And I just nodded yes. Cause now I'm unable to speak and no kidding, Mike, I was doing all I could to keep my stuff together. I could have broken down into sobs right there. But after that, I was able to ask for help. And so it kind of makes sense.

[00:45:55] Power of story. He shared his story with you, shared his truth with you to lay the foundation. So you knew he was safe and he shared his story. He didn't blow up. Lightning didn't strike him. That he survived. And he survived. And he's happy and successful. It's possible to get through it. Right. And it gave you, even though you weren't ready necessarily right then and there,

[00:46:23] it inspired you to get to the point where you could share your story. Right. And I've been surprised too at the speaking events I've done, whether it's just kind of a somebody going, Oh, would you mind talking a little bit or inviting me to an event? Every time Mike, every time there will be guys that come up later and go, Hey, what you talked about, it happened to me. And so it's just something I started looking at more and more. How can I speak

[00:46:51] to more guys? Because maybe the goal is just to allow a boy or a teen or a man to see somebody who's okay. Right. That they were able to get help. They were able to share and talk about it. I've got a great relationship with my wife. I'm a pretty calm person. I can hold a job. I'm not completely broken. And maybe if people see that in me, in you and others who can share their story like that man that

[00:47:20] shared with me, maybe it gives us a safe place and allows us to have the courage to share a little bit and let some of that pressure out and maybe step onto their path of healing. Absolutely. Yes. That's the theme of this podcast. One of the themes, power of story that in the sharing, it inspires healing in others. And that's what got me on my journey. And just hearing that's how, what happened

[00:47:47] to you as well. You heard someone's story and inspired you to get the healing that you needed. And it doesn't have to be all the gory details. Right. I don't share those. They're horrible. I don't want people to have the images that I've experienced in their head. So it is good to find a safe place to tell the bad stuff, whether it's therapist, spouse, I wouldn't share necessarily with spouse. I haven't got that deep. My spouse, she knows a lot of it, doesn't know the gory

[00:48:17] details, but therapist writing anonymous groups like male survivor, wonderful place you can blog anonymously. And you put all the details in there and throw a trigger warning in and yeah, you're set and it gets it out. It gets it out of your head. And also putting it out there, especially like in writing, whether journaling or whatever, you can then look at it from a distance and kind of,

[00:48:45] oh, what is this thing? And see it with a different set of eyes. And you might, might be able to like fit a few more pieces together and things will make more sense. And plus, if you share it on one of those sites, you might get insight from one of the other people reading your post. It's like, oh, and that's how I discovered. That's literally how I discovered I've been trafficked that I put, I had a huge memory block. I put what I did remember. And I had this weird

[00:49:10] camping memory that was really weird, that clear memory. And they said, yeah, I think that was a boy swap event. Really? And they explained what it was and boom, the light went on. And it's like, you know, like a ton of bricks, that truth bomb. Yeah. That's what that was. And it made so much sense. And then everything, I mean, I'd known I was sexually abused from age 30, having that memory

[00:49:37] when I was younger. And now in my 50s, a sudden, even more things made sense. A lot more puzzle pieces came into view and made much more sense. Getting that out there and then sharing and getting others perspectives on it, whether therapists or support groups, even online support groups, very, very helpful in the healing process. Absolutely. So you've gotten lots of healing. You've had good therapists and not so good therapists. Anything else that you've tried for your healing? You mentioned

[00:50:07] EMDR and that seemed to be helpful, though EMDR can be re-traumatizing. And it sounds like you kind of experienced a little bit of that as well. What else have you tried and what has been successful or less than successful? Probably the most successful thing that I've experienced is, and with the counselors

[00:50:29] I've had, instead of feeling psychoanalyzed, a lot of times we just talked. Right. It could be about the Star Trek episode I watched or the funny thing that happened. I cry so much at Star Trek episodes, especially the newer ones. They bring up so many stuff. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting

[00:50:55] because we just chat and, you know, it might be an hour session and 40 minutes of it is just kind of blathering on, but then some piece comes out and we're able to kind of pull it back together. And I've been so appreciative of that kind of therapy help. It's like, I don't know if it's just the way I

[00:51:17] need it or, or why. Right. And it sounds like with how you described it and how that one man who was so gentle realized, oh, you are like all tumbled up and nuts. I've got to be super gentle, super calming, realizing, cause that is exactly what you needed. And I'm sure the, your current therapist is cued on that. We're just going to go easy, kind of backdoor this thing and get it. And then stuff's going to

[00:51:46] start to come up and that's okay. Yeah. And that's wonderful. Yeah. I'm more, let's head this thing on the therapist I had before my current therapist first day. He did this wonderful little intro, but might take a few sessions before you're comfortable and opening up and that's fine. We'll take our time. It's like, no, no, I don't have time for this. Here's my story. And I just crammed it all down. Mega, mega data dump, everything that happened now, then this is what's wrong. Fix me.

[00:52:16] Fix me. Oh, okay. He was not used to that approach, but yeah, that's how I tend to go forth and it's like, okay, this is what's wrong. Let's do it. It's like, okay. Cause that's where I am in my healing. And though sometimes, yeah, we need a little softer approach. Catching myself, not wanting to, cause I realize how experiences that very few people have,

[00:52:41] and they're so horrible. I feel like that it is a burden for somebody to hear the details. So I always try to work around the details. Right. Exactly. Like the fact of the, the infant abuse that can be so triggering for someone not in this field to even comprehend that type of thing happens. Right. But it does. And a lot because who's going to talk? They don't even know

[00:53:11] language yet, but it happens a lot, sadly. Cause I've been kind of a protector my whole life. Even as a child, me and GI Joe toys and little green army men saving my sister's Barbies, trying to protect people. And even now in my sharing, even if I talk to a group, I try to be very careful, not just of all the details, but to also make sure that people recognize, yeah, I've got a horrible story, but

[00:53:41] regardless of my story, you may look at yours and go, oh, well, mine wasn't very bad then. It's like, no, don't think that. Right. Your, your trauma is your trauma. And you could have something that happened one time only, and it has affected you more than I've been affected. So do not compare what's happened to you with what's happened to me. Absolutely. It is not a contest. All trauma is bad.

[00:54:07] All abuse is bad. All of it is horrifying. And even small quote unquote one-time events can have massive impact. Absolutely. It is not a contest. Right. And yeah, we honor all types of abuse here, including non-contact abuse. Right. Which can also be quite scarring. So yes, absolutely. One comment

[00:54:31] in the chat. Thank you so much for sharing your story. We are honored. Absolutely. And I would agree with that. I would love to learn more about what you're doing now because you speak, you're an advocate, you do all kinds of things for survivors. So tell me more about that, how you're involved, how you help survivors and you work with women as well. You've got a program for them. So yes,

[00:54:59] please explain what you're doing these days for sure. Sure. Yeah. My program for women came about from the story I told you earlier and that young lady tried what people normally teach young girls to do. And it didn't work as many things don't. So when I felt called on the carpet, so to speak, the divine calling, why haven't you done anything? I thought I want to create something that isn't just

[00:55:27] for the 20 year old gym fitness girl because predators attack women of every size and shape and fitness level because they're looking for people they can control. So I took my experience in law enforcement, my military experience, the anti-terror work I did and mixed in psychological warfare so that it no longer

[00:55:52] mattered about how strong the woman is. She can affect his mind. What I call it is physiopsychological warfare. You can affect someone's body to affect their mind so that the predator's mind realizes he doesn't have prey anymore. He may have grabbed a hold of a predator and it provides the women a way to

[00:56:16] escape even up to the point of disabling him in some pretty terrible ways. I had a woman in a class. She was 73. That woman was a fireball. I thought she was going to put me in the hospital. That woman, she was terrific. So yeah, I do that and it's real empowerment based to help women see just how capable they are. Right. All the weaknesses of a predator. And it was interesting, Mike, because for a long

[00:56:42] time, I had no desire to reach out to men. And just a few years ago that started like, well, how do I help them? And that's where I started tickling the idea of what can I do? Thinking about how the one gentleman at the marketing event helped me. I mean, just from that very little bit and looking at how to first responders

[00:57:06] treat children. I mean, people generally don't look at the boys. They look at the girls. Is she okay? And realizing that most first responders don't know what a boy who is in danger looks like. Because what are we told? Suck it up, kid. Be a man. Right. Right. Yeah. Don't you cry. I'll give you something to cry about. And that stuff happens from a young age for a lot of us. So I just started

[00:57:36] thinking, what can I do? And the idea came that maybe I need to teach first responders, people who are advocates, how to see what's going on with boys. And this is the thing I really want to push in this. There's a new program I'm building. But the thing is for those of us men who are capable

[00:58:00] of sharing a story to be a little bit more open about it so that other men, teens can hear it and can see us as a survivor story. Right. And maybe it gives them just enough courage to ask for help. Absolutely. Just enough courage to say, hey, it's my dad that's hurting me. Can you take me away from here?

[00:58:25] When they see the policeman or the social worker or the person at the store, to just give them the belief, enough faith to know that there's good people out there and there's boys and men who have been hurt and they lived and they made it and they're okay. We're not always fully healed. We're still going to have our scars physically or emotionally, but it is possible for us to have a pretty good life.

[00:58:55] Even after the horrible things happen and we can be examples for them so that they know that's true. Right. Absolutely. I know you are sharing your story at different events, like the conference that we met up at. So how did you get involved in that? Oh my gosh. How did I find that one? Luckily, we have a mutual friend who told me about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So she mentioned maybe. And I'm hoping to get her on the podcast. She would be one of my

[00:59:24] first female guests if I can get her on. I'm sure she would do it. Yes. Oh, she said she will. We're just trying to figure out scheduling because she's rather busy. Right. Right. Yes. Yeah. But yes, so she has connected me with some people and some of the other guys I've talked to have suggested events to me. So I've just started reaching out to them and saying, Hey, this is who I am. I'd like to share. I did that locally. We have a trafficking organization here that had no males in

[00:59:54] it, you know, or anti-trafficking. Right. Yes. Anti-trafficking. Yeah. I make that mistake a lot. Yeah. They're like, Oh, it would be great to have a male's voice in this. And it was so interesting. What a wonderful bunch of people over and over. I'm like, Oh, we could talk about this for boys. And they're like, Oh, we're not quite ready for that. And so they held onto it for women. Most of all, I'm like, okay, it looks like I'm not really serving, you know, you as, as how we could,

[01:00:23] but if you ever do want the voice of a male survivor, please let me know. So I think it's still shocking to people to realize that boys get abused. Right. And like you mentioned so many in that realm, especially with trafficking, high percentage are actually female buyers and sellers of the children and familial abuse. It's

[01:00:48] moms and other female family members, in addition to the dads and the male family members, that the stats are pretty close, not quite 50 50, but it's not that much difference between the two. It's a very high rate for female offenders for trafficking and especially familial trafficking.

[01:01:11] Absolutely. So any final thoughts for those who are listening, who are survivors of abuse or survivors of trafficking, any final thoughts you'd like to share? Yes. To not give up. We've made it through the hardest stuff. We've survived the physical stuff. Now we just need to find out how to work with our own emotional and psychological stuff and finding a

[01:01:37] safe place to do that. I mean, it might take some work to find that place, but when we can share our own story, if you have a safe place to do it, it may open the door for somebody else, just as the gentleman shared with me, and now I'm able to share. And that's what I'm hoping that boys and men will hear me and decide to let the secret out, let some of the pressure out. Yes.

[01:02:05] So, you know, if you can do that, if you cannot, don't do that. You must take care of yourself first. Right. You know, self-care is key. So yeah, and I'm grateful for everybody that's listening, for everybody that has pushed through and continued to survive through all the pain and the fear they've experienced. I'm grateful for all of you. It helps me remember to keep on going

[01:02:28] when I get in my own stuff and think it's not helping. And then I meet more people and I'm like, okay, I have to keep helping. Right. Right. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here this evening. And we hope to see you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. If you would like to learn more about my coaching with Polar Live Consulting, where I provide one-on-one coaching and group coaching,

[01:02:58] both with a focus on healing for male survivors, reach out to me at polarlifeconsulting.com. That is polar spelled P-O-L-A-R. I would love to hear from you. I want to hear your story. If you would like your story featured on this podcast, contact me via my website. If you like this podcast, please rate and review because that's how other people can find me. And I really want to spread

[01:03:24] this message of healing and hope to others. And remember, you are not alone. Healing is possible and the abuse was not your fault. Let me repeat that. The abuse was not your fault. See you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.