57 - Forgiveness - Part 1 - James Gianakon’s podcast

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] And welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. I'm your host, Mike Chapman. Today we have a special episode on forgiveness. I hear this topic come up a lot on my podcast and listening to others and especially for survivors of childhood sexual abuse and sexual assaults and sex trafficking, forgiving the people who perpetrated the things against us, whether that was our, the person who,

[00:00:56] or people who abused us or those who trafficked us, both buyers and sellers. And what that looks like, what that is, what that isn't, why it's important and what exactly that means. So I recently listened to a friend of mine's podcast. He is James Gianakin and he has the Imago Dei recovery podcast. He's a

[00:01:26] also a husband material certified coach like I am and a friend and I was listening to his podcast. He's got a few episodes on forgiveness and it was just so perfectly stated. And I agree mostly with what he said. And I want to talk about that. And this is actually a two part episode on forgiveness. I'm going to go through James's podcast notes. Some of them I'll just read verbatim as he spoke them

[00:01:56] on his own podcast. But then I'll add my own thoughts to those. And then in part two, we are having a panel discussion on forgiveness, talking about what forgiveness is and what forgiveness isn't. And going through these points that James so brilliantly explained on his podcast.

[00:02:15] So reading what he wrote, it says we look at what forgiveness is, what forgiveness isn't, what some of the myths about forgiveness are and to help us forgive those who have wronged us in our lives. In this series on forgiveness, we will look at human forgiveness, not God's forgiveness. So this is not how God forgives us. A whole different set of rules that the Bible goes into about how God forgives us. This is about one person forgiving another person.

[00:02:44] That's the focus. We'll look at what it's like for us to forgive those who have hurt us and what it isn't like for us to forgive those who have hurt us. The first myth about forgiveness is that it is easy. Forgiveness is not easy. In fact, it is often very difficult to forgive those who have wronged us, those who have hurt us in the past, those who offend us in the present. It is not easy to forgive somebody for the wounds and the pain that they have caused, the betrayal that we have experienced at their hands.

[00:03:14] And the hurt feelings and the hurt feelings that we have. It is not easy to forgive somebody for promoting some of the core beliefs that we have believed about ourselves, beliefs that are not true. Like we're not good enough. No one will ever love us. It is not easy to forgive those in our lives about pain and wounds that create these lies.

[00:03:34] And for the survivor, yeah, it's very difficult to forgive those who abused us because of the severe wounds that they caused and chaos they created in our lives.

[00:03:48] So yes, it is not easy. Some say, oh, it's easy. You just do it. It's like, no, it's a process. And I love how the Bible says 70 times seven, realizing that it's a process for a lot of us. Plus so much stuff gets hidden. I know with my own life, with my father, who is the main perpetrator, more stuff keeps coming up and it's more stuff I need to forgive them for. So it is an ongoing process.

[00:04:16] The second myth about forgiveness is that we have to forget the offense, the old forgive and forget adage. And that's actually not biblical. That's Shakespeare, believe it or not. Forgive and forget. But people think that's biblical and it's not. Forgiveness does not mean forgetting what has happened. It does not mean we just forget about the pain and forget about the event that caused us pain.

[00:04:39] Yes, some may point out that the Bible says God will remember our sins no more. He will not remember the sins of our youth. And yes, that is true from God's perspective. He absolves us from the consequences from our sin. And that's true for God's forgiveness, but it's not true of human forgiveness. From a human standpoint, forgiveness does not mean forgetting.

[00:05:04] We can forgive somebody and remember the pain that was caused us by their actions. We can think back on that memory and have that pain right there. Just like when we are physically wounded and a scar develops. And the scar reminds us of the event that caused us that pain. So too, emotionally, our hearts are wounded, our souls are wounded, and we carry that wound around with us. It will heal, but there will be a scar there.

[00:05:30] And there will be a reminder of the pain that we have endured, that we have gone through. And when we think back on those events, we can experience pain, and that's okay. It's okay. It's okay to still feel pain, even after you've forgiven somebody. Those pains will often last a lifetime, and the memories of those pains will endure. The third thing that is not true about forgiveness is that it does not mean that what happened was acceptable.

[00:05:58] It doesn't mean that if we forgive somebody that we're saying, Hey, it's okay that you hurt me. It's okay that this happened. No. Forgiveness actually means that you are affirming that what they did was wrong. You are affirming that what they did requires forgiveness. Forgiveness is a step that is necessary when we are wounded, when we are hurt, not when somebody does something that's fine, something that's okay, something that is good.

[00:06:24] The fourth thing that is not true about forgiveness is that forgiveness does not mean that the hurt is completely gone. As we talked about, the wound can still be very present. And when we think about the event, pain will likely be attached to it because the hurt is not completely gone. We are able to forgive others, even as we are acknowledging and dealing with the pain that their actions have caused.

[00:06:50] Forgiveness does not mean that everything is okay, that all the pain is gone, and that everything is okay again. The fifth thing that is not true about forgiveness is that forgiveness does not depend on repentance nor on an apology. The other person does not need to acknowledge that what they did was wrong. They do not need to repent of their deeds. They do not need to ask forgiveness or seek out an apology in order for us to forgive somebody.

[00:07:19] In fact, sometimes it is impossible for the offending party to ask for forgiveness or to repent from what they have done. For instance, if that person that hurt you was a stranger, then there's no way for them to ask for an apology. If the person that offended you is dead now, they're not going to be able to apologize and repent from what and how they mistreated you. It's even possible that somebody we need to forgive doesn't feel like what they did was wrong.

[00:07:48] They don't see how what they did hurt you or they're not sorry and they're actually glad that they have hurt you or glad that they wounded you because they have not experienced healing themselves. And they have not come to understand that they need to ask forgiveness. And they've not come to understand that they need to repent of their deeds and need to change the way that they're behaving. They have no remorse and they do not feel sorry for what they've done.

[00:08:13] It is still possible to forgive somebody even in these situations. For the survivor of abuse, oftentimes we're not able to hear from our victims or if it's a family member, not able to hear from the people who abused us or trafficked us or it's not safe to even talk to them. Still, you can offer forgiveness.

[00:08:39] And it doesn't mean talking to them or reaching out to them, but between you and God, you can still forgive that person. Establishing contact is often very not safe. You do not have to do that. You don't have to have any contact with that person to still forgive them. And oftentimes for abusers, they're not remorseful. They do not ask for forgiveness nor seek forgiveness. Still, forgiveness helps us to heal. And we'll talk about that as well.

[00:09:09] So forgiveness does not require repentance nor an apology. The sixth thing that is not true about forgiveness is that forgiveness does not mean that there are no consequences. The natural consequences of our actions still continue even after forgiveness is offered. There's still pain that is there. There may be distrust. There may be betrayal. There may be unsafety in a relationship. And forgiveness does not mean that there are no consequences.

[00:09:38] Seventh thing that forgiveness does not mean is that forgiveness does not mean that trust is restored. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean you need to trust them again. You may feel unsafe with this person and that's okay. That's valid. It is okay to continue to feel unsafe and to establish boundaries even after you have forgiven them. You do not need to trust them. It may be unsafe for you to do so.

[00:10:04] And you may subject yourself to future pain and future harm if you do trust them. And that means that you shouldn't trust them again. You can forgive them without deciding to trust them again. Forgiveness is not based on future performance. We are not forgiving for the future. We are forgiving for the past.

[00:10:24] For survivors, this is especially true that so many abusers will go on to be unsafe with you, with others, maybe with your own children. Plus, there's no guarantee that they won't harm you in other ways by word or deed. And it may not be safe to be around them. And that is fine. Forgiveness does not mean that you need to trust them in your life.

[00:10:54] And we go into more of that moving forward. The eighth thing that forgiveness does not mean is that forgiveness does not mean restoration. Forgiveness does not mean that a relationship with that person is restored and that everything is like it used to be. There are consequences to everyone's actions, to the actions of others towards us, and to our actions towards other people. We can forgive people without restoring our relationship again.

[00:11:21] We should not seek to restore a relationship where we are all but assured of being hurt again. If someone in our family is an alcoholic or they're abusive or have not changed their ways, we should not have the same relationship with them. We should establish boundaries to keep ourselves safe because they haven't changed. And the situations are going to repeat themselves. And we are going to be hurt. It does not mean we can't forgive the past.

[00:11:50] It just means that we are not going to expose ourselves to the potential for harm in the future. We're not going to expose ourselves to future wounding and future pain. We're going to focus on the past, forgive what has been done to us, and establish boundaries to keep ourselves safe. And that's absolutely true for survivors. That restoration, also called reconciliation, is not the same thing as forgiveness.

[00:12:17] That's a whole other process, a whole other step. And they're independent of each other. That to offer reconciliation, yes, forgiveness needs to be there. But you can forgive without having or expecting reconciliation. The ninth thing that is not true about forgiveness, that forgiveness does not mean, is that forgiveness is not a one-time event. We go back to the 70 times 7 thing. We don't forgive somebody and it's done.

[00:12:48] Forgiveness is not a one-time event for us. It's not, we give somebody forgiveness and then we're done. We might need to do it repeatedly, over and over again. Forgiveness is not something we just decide to do and then we're done with it and we move on. And we never think about that pain. And we never have to work at continuing to forgive those who've hurt us. And it doesn't mean that it's a one-time event.

[00:13:10] For the survivor, for me, forgiving those who abused me, especially my father, so much more memories come to the surface. And so that requires even more forgiveness because more pain and more hurt comes forward. And a lot of those painful events, they come up more and more. And the shrapnel, if you will, continues to pop up and need to be healed. And part of that healing is that forgiveness.

[00:13:39] So we don't carry the burden of the feelings with that pain, with that hurt, that it helps us to release that. The tenth thing that forgiveness does not mean is that if we struggle to forgive, we are somehow less spiritual. That forgiveness should be easy for Christians and having to work hard at it means we're less godly, less spiritual, less of a strong Christian.

[00:14:07] And if we were a strong Christian, we'd be able to forgive whatever offense we have experienced, whatever pain, wound, or trauma we've endured. We should never be compelled to forgive. And having a hard time with giving forgiveness to somebody that has hurt us does not mean that we are a weak Christian, does not mean that our trust in God and our love for God is not great. It just means that we're in pain. And forgiving someone that has caused us a lot of pain takes a lot of time.

[00:14:35] Just like with physical injuries, the depth and amount of pain can dictate what recovery looks like and the amount of time that it takes. A scratch is a lot different in healing than the loss of a limb. A cut takes less time to heal than surgery to repair a torn muscle. In many instances, rehabilitation and physical therapy is necessary to truly heal. And that recovery can take years.

[00:15:05] The same is true for our emotional wounds and our emotional trauma. It is not a one-time thing. And needing to work at it and struggling to be able to offer forgiveness does not mean that you're a bad Christian. It doesn't mean you don't love God. It just means that the wound is deep and you need some intense healing. And that's okay.

[00:15:28] And I love that description because it is a process and it takes time. It's also not a one-time event, but that first one-time event can take a long time to get through because of the layers of healing. Peeling back the layers of the onion, if you will. And it takes time and it's not easy. So to summarize the 10 things that are not true about forgiveness. Forgiveness is not easy.

[00:15:56] Forgiveness does not mean forgetting what happened. Forgiveness does not mean that what happened was acceptable. Forgiveness does not mean that hurt is completely gone. Forgiveness does not require repentance or apology. Forgiveness does not mean there are no consequences. Forgiveness does not mean that trust is restored. Forgiveness does not mean restoration or reconciliation. Forgiveness is not a one-time event.

[00:16:26] And struggling to forgive does not mean that you are less spiritual or less of a Christian or that you love God less. That was part one of James's list. Part two is the things that are true about forgiveness. And we'll go through those as well. And he continues, yes, we continue our look at forgiveness and discuss 10 things that are true about forgiveness.

[00:16:52] Again, in this episode, we are discussing human forgiveness and not God's forgiveness. God is God and his ways are high and above my own, high and above any human's ways. But here are 10 things that are true about human forgiveness. About us forgiving other people. The first thing that is true about forgiveness is that forgiveness is hard. Forgiveness is not easy. It is difficult.

[00:17:19] Oftentimes, the things that we are looking to forgive are things that have occurred to us over and over again. Abuse, neglect, trauma. A dad who wasn't emotionally available. A mom who is emotionally enmeshed. A chaotic environment that we grew up in where our longings and our needs were not seen and not met. Where we felt undervalued. Forgiving these wounds and these traumas is difficult. It's hard work. It's not easy.

[00:17:47] If you're struggling to forgive those that have hurt you, it's okay. It's okay. Forgiveness is hard. It takes time. It takes work. The second thing that is true about forgiveness is that forgiveness is a choice. It is not a feeling. We don't feel like we forgive somebody. We choose to forgive them. We make an active choice that I am going to forgive this person for what they have done to me.

[00:18:16] I'm not going to hold bitterness and that anger against them. I'm going to choose to forgive their actions. We can make that choice and nobody can make us or demand us to make that choice. Nobody can demand that we forgive them. It is a free choice of ours to make. The third truth about forgiveness is that forgiveness is an expression of God's love in us. By being able to forgive other people, we are able to share God's love for them with them.

[00:18:44] And assuming it's safe to do so. That for survivors, interaction is often not safe. So, yes, I would not recommend this. Hey, I forgave you for all these horrible things you did. And then, yeah, even having interaction with some of these perpetrators would not be safe. So that would not be recommended. If it's in a place and there's reconciliation going on, then yes, talk to them. But oftentimes that is not the case. James continues,

[00:19:12] God forgives us all of our sins. And in turn, we are able to forgive others. We are able to pay this forgiveness forward. We can remember the grace and mercy that he has shown us. And we're able to extend that to other people. They don't deserve to be forgiven. And neither did we. But we can look at the magnitude of God's love for us that he has shown us in sending his son to die for us. In forgiving us all of our sins, we can give that forgiveness to other people.

[00:19:40] We can see that we should forgive them and we should love them the way that God wants us to love them. The one way to show people that we love them is to forgive them, to show that we have extended grace and mercy to them and forgiven the pain that they have caused us. And again, from afar, and it's hard. It's a long process. But giving that forgiveness is so helpful to our own healing, to our own recovery.

[00:20:08] And it does not mean we need to tell them we have forgiven them. Not required. I love Oprah Winfrey's quote on forgiveness. This is Mike, not James, quoting this. That she defines forgiveness as giving up the hope that the past could be any different. That involves accepting what happened and not holding on to the wish that things could have been otherwise. And I love that. Quote, The fourth thing about forgiveness is that it is an expression of God's grace.

[00:20:38] And since it is an expression of God's grace, true forgiveness, especially of the deep pain that we have been carrying for years and years, is not really possible without God. God, his spirit inside of us is necessary in order for us to forgive these big wounds and these consistent traumas that we have experienced growing up. His spirit inside us empowers us and enables us to go through this process of forgiveness.

[00:21:06] And as Christians, we should seek to forgive those that wrong us. But it's not something that we have to do. We are God's beloved sons, God's beloved children. And whether we forgive everybody that has wronged us or not, and people that are saved in Christ followers are his, whether they forgive us or not, nobody is required to forgive. Again, nobody is required to forgive. And when I say that forgiveness is not required of us,

[00:21:35] I do acknowledge that forgiveness is a godly quality. And without God in our life, true forgiveness is not really possible. God does desire for us to forgive people, but he does not demand it. He understands that forgiveness is complex for us mortals. It is not an easy thing. It is not something we can do without seeking his spirit and his guidance in our lives. In fact, as Christians, we should pray that God would enable us to forgive others,

[00:22:03] enable us to forgive the offenses of those that have hurt us and of those that have wounded us. And we should seek and want to forgive them. Doesn't mean it's going to be easy. And it doesn't mean that we should just go ahead and do it, because that's what would make God happy. Yes, our forgiveness is pleasing to the Lord, but his love for us is unchanging whether we forgive or whether we don't. He loves us because he created us. He sent his son to die for us.

[00:22:31] And he has given us his spirit to live inside of us. This is what enables us to forgive, is the spirit inside of us. It enables us to forgive what seems unforgivable and what seems like impossible to forgive. Forgiveness, again, is an expression of grace. It is unmerited favor. It is a gift that is not deserved, that is not earned, that is not warranted.

[00:22:55] It is something that somebody chooses to do because they want to forgive, not because it is deserved. The fifth thing that is true about forgiveness is that forgiveness is one-sided. It does not need to involve the other person. It does not require the other person to repent or ask for forgiveness. It does not require an apology. It is one-sided. It is something that each individual can choose to do or not do.

[00:23:23] I can choose to forgive those that have hurt me, whether or not they have asked for it, whether or not they have changed, whether or not they're still in my life. The exciting thing about what this means is that I can choose to forgive somebody that I've had no involvement with for years, somebody that I may have never known.

[00:23:45] As for survivors, we often don't necessarily know the names of those who hurt us, who abused us, especially for those of us who were trafficked. We have many unnamed, unknown buyers who have perpetrated abuse, unknown faces, unknown names, but they hurt us. And we can still choose to forgive them.

[00:24:09] So even if they live on the other side of the country or if they passed away, I can still choose to forgive them because forgiveness involves me. It is one-sided and it does not involve the other person. The sixth thing that is true about forgiveness is that forgiveness requires grieving the loss. And I love that. That's a very healthy perspective.

[00:24:31] We have to see, acknowledge, and accept the damage that another person's action caused us in order to be able to forgive them. If I just forgive somebody for the sake of forgiving, then I'm not seeing the pain that they have caused me. And I'm not able to truly forgive them. I have to see, recognize, and accept the pain that they have caused me, the pain that their actions have brought into my life. And I have to grieve that loss.

[00:24:59] I have to grieve the fact that my dad didn't see me in whatever situation. I have to grieve the fact that my mom is enmeshed in whatever ways. I have to grieve the fact that my family was the way that it was. I have to grieve the fact that we were not emotionally vulnerable with one another and that we focused a lot on performance and behavior. And we encouraged each other to always act the best way we could. For survivors, yes, we have to grieve the abuse.

[00:25:29] Grieve the missing childhood that we weren't allowed to simply be kids because we were objects as well during that time. So all that needs to be grieved to truly get to the point where we can offer forgiveness. And that takes time. So the process of forgiveness is not overnight, for sure. That it is a process.

[00:25:54] And grieving that pain, letting go of that pain instead of harboring that pain or pushing that pain down or numbing that pain like so many of us have done. It's getting that pain out, understanding that pain, feeling that pain, mourning, grieving that pain. Then we can release that pain and get us to a point where we can forgive that person and understand and move forward. When we work on forgiving people, we have to see the pain that they inflicted on us.

[00:26:23] We have to grieve the loss of relationship. Grieve what we wish had been and wasn't. Grieve that we didn't have the relationship that we wished. Grieve that we weren't seen the way we wish we were seen. In order to truly forgive, we have to see the scope of the pain that was inflicted upon us. If we don't acknowledge the pain that was caused, then forgiveness is a shallow action. And it is not real forgiveness.

[00:26:50] It is something that we do to make it seem like we are spiritual and godly and like we are a forgiving person. Often in those situations, we'll continue to harbor the bitterness of the wound, the bitterness of the actions, as we come to understand and be faced with it. The seventh thing that is true about forgiveness is that forgiveness should happen only when we are ready to forgive. Building on the last step, forgiveness is not required immediately when we are wronged.

[00:27:19] Oftentimes in church, that's what is presented is when we're wronged, we should just forgive. Forgiveness is not an immediate thing. It's not, oh, I've been wounded. I've been hurt. So now I should offer forgiveness. I've even heard of pastors recommending to women who were just raped that the first thing that they do is forgive the person who assaulted them, the person that raped them. This is wrong. We should not do this.

[00:27:47] This is bypassing in the worst way. This is ignoring the pain, ignoring the emotions, ignoring the wound, and forgiving for the sake of forgiveness. And this brings up the concept of spiritual bypassing. And Drew Boa had a nice podcast episode on that. I'll put links to that in the show notes as to what spiritual bypass means and why it happens so much in the church and how it is not a good thing.

[00:28:16] Continuing, that is not what forgiveness should be. It is not what forgiveness is. And it is not what true forgiveness looks like. We need to look at the pain. We need to look at the wound. And we should only offer forgiveness when we are ready to forgive. Absolutely, we can pray, God, help me to forgive this person. We can ask him to change our hearts and to give us a heart of forgiveness. But only when that occurs are we ready to forgive.

[00:28:44] Only when we feel like we are being led to forgive someone. Only when we feel like we are ready to forgive someone should we actually forgive them. Forgiveness should only happen when we are ready to forgive. The next truth that James talks about, I kind of disagree with, but let me give it to you. He says the next truth about forgiveness is that it is costly that there is a cost to forgiveness.

[00:29:12] That he continues, and this is where I disagree, we must give up our feelings and desire for justice and surrender them to God and trust his justice. I understand that to a point. However, for the survivors, it sounds like we should not participate in any kind of justice-related proceeding. So if they're caught, if we offer forgiveness, then does that mean we don't testify? Does that mean we don't give statements?

[00:29:41] Does that mean we don't offer up our testimony in court or in any legal proceedings and tell our story about what happened to those in the criminal justice system? Does that mean that we don't pursue the court system if we feel the need? If that's something that's even available. Oftentimes for many of us, it's not because it's actual limitations and so forth.

[00:30:06] But does that mean we don't pursue legal remedies for the pain and suffering and perhaps monetary payment for the years of therapy and the expense of therapy? That I understand what he's saying, but yes, understanding God's justice, but still being able to be involved in the criminal justice system.

[00:30:31] So that one, yes, there's a cause to forgiveness, but it doesn't necessarily, unlike what James says, means we have to give up our involvement in the criminal justice system. He goes on with other things that I kind of agree with. We must give up our feelings of bitterness and rage and anger. And like he said earlier, that's part of the process of forgiveness, that you have to be ready to forgive. And sometimes it means going through that pain.

[00:30:58] So we can get to a point where we are able to forgive. So yes, I agree with that part. We must commit to not bringing up the offenses anymore. I don't agree with that either. Telling our stories are so important. Oh, I forgive. So that means I can't talk about this anymore. Not true. Not true.

[00:31:17] That part of recovery and healing is sharing our stories, sharing our pain, helping others to understand who've experienced similar pain, that they are not alone. Yeah, I disagree with that as well. So I agree with James' point, to a point, to a very small point.

[00:31:41] But mostly what he describes for survivors of abuse maybe just doesn't apply. I don't know how else to describe that. But yeah, there's a chunk of that description that, yeah, I wholeheartedly disagree with. That's probably the only one. And everything else is kind of right on. But that one, how he describes it, yes, there's a cost of forgiveness. But I don't agree with some of those points on there.

[00:32:08] Moving forward, the ninth thing that is true about forgiveness is that it is a process. And it doesn't happen all at once. We don't just forgive one time and we're done. Again, 70 times seven. It's a choice that we make, especially with those deep wounds. Those wounds that we are subjected to over and over again, that we have to make repeatedly because we've come to understand a new depth of the pain that was caused. A new depth of the pain that we experienced.

[00:32:38] And so we choose to forgive another aspect and another layer of that pain. As we go on this healing process, we're going to come back to the wounds that we've endured over and over again. And as we talk about them, as we dig into them, we're going to realize new facets of the message that we received and new ways that we need to forgive people. The tenth point about forgiveness is that forgiveness brings freedom.

[00:33:04] Until we forgive those who have hurt us and carry resentment, blame, bitterness, and anger towards them. And often we feel like we need to hold on to these things because if we let go of them, we're afraid of losing that control and the power of holding on to that bitterness. The control of holding the offense over whoever has hurt us. That can be an intimidating thing to let go of. But when you let go of that anger, let go of that resentment, let go of that blame, it

[00:33:34] is freeing. You don't have to carry this weight in your heart anymore. You can replace it with God's love for you. God's love for that other person. And you can live in freedom. You can live without the burden of bitterness, without the burden of anger, without the burden of resentment. You can live free from having those feelings towards somebody else.

[00:33:59] And you can let go of that resentment, blame, and bitterness and open yourself up to God. You can allow his love to come into you more fully. You can allow yourself to experience his love in more real and tangible ways. And you can outpour that love to others, to others that don't deserve it. You can just live in the freedom knowing that you are forgiven and that you can forgive other

[00:34:26] people because of God's love for you. To summarize, the 10 things that are true about forgiveness are Forgiveness is hard. Forgiveness is a choice. It is not a feeling. Forgiveness is an expression of God's love in us. Forgiveness is an expression of God's grace. Forgiveness is one-sided. It does not need to involve the other person.

[00:34:54] Forgiveness requires grieving the loss. Forgiveness should happen only when we are ready to forgive. Forgiveness is costly. Forgiveness is a process. And forgiveness brings freedom. And James goes on to talk about how we can learn forgiveness, what tools are out there that can help us in this process. He says, as a bonus, I wanted to say we can use tools that are available to us,

[00:35:24] like internal family systems, inner child work, big brother coaching, story work, psychodramas, and other healing techniques and recovery groups to help us learn to process the pain that we've endured, the pain of our experiences, the wounds that we have, and that we carry in life, and learn how to forgive those who have hurt us. And I'll have links to several of those processes in the show notes.

[00:35:50] And a lot of that are things that I do as a recovery coach, and that happen a lot within the Husband Material platform as well, that we talk about how we can process these things. And it's not easy. Absolutely. So that concludes my discussion of forgiveness and James Janikin's podcast on forgiveness.

[00:36:15] And next week, we have a panel discussing all of this with panelists who are all survivors and work with survivors. And look forward to seeing you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. If you would like to learn more about my coaching with Polar Live Consulting, where I provide one-on-one coaching and group coaching, both with a focus on healing for male survivors,

[00:36:44] reach out to me at polarlifeconsulting.com. That is polar spelled P-O-L-A-R. I would love to hear from you. I want to hear your story. If you would like your story featured on this podcast, contact me via my website. If you like this podcast, please rate and review because that's how other people can find me. And I really want to spread this message of healing and hope to others. And remember, you are not alone.

[00:37:11] Healing is possible and the abuse was not your fault. Let me repeat that. The abuse was not your fault. See you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.