56 - Live Interview with Dr. Russell Stagg

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] And welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is Mike Chapman, your host, and we are recording live. If you would like to join us on future podcast episodes, you can learn how to do so at polarlifeconsulting.com slash live.

[00:00:47] And with me today is my special guest, Dr. Russell Stagg, who is a trauma therapist specializing in sexual abuse and sexual assault and is a survivor himself. He has master's degrees in counseling psychology and Jewish studies, which is part of chaplaincy.

[00:01:06] He has been counseling since 2013 with psychotherapy licenses in three Canadian provinces. Before entering private practice, he was the resident chaplain for the emergency intensive care and burn units at Calgary Foothills Hospital in Calgary, Canada. That's in Alberta, I believe.

[00:01:26] I'm the Jewish chaplain. I'm the Jewish chaplain at the University of Calgary. His articles on trauma recovery have appeared in major psychology journals and his research in various fields has been cited over 4,000 times in academic publications.

[00:01:42] His knowledge of child sexual abuse and addictions comes from his training, his clients, and his personal experience. And we'll have links to his website and his private practice and his book in the show notes. So welcome, Russell Stagg. Thank you, Mike. Yes. And we actually do, like I said, have a live audience. And a reminder to the audience, you can be as anonymous as you wish.

[00:02:11] We will only state your name if you manually type it in with your question or comment in the chat. Otherwise, we will keep you anonymous. And with that, we will start how we normally do with four questions. Now it's time for four questions, that part of the podcast when we get to know our guest a bit better by asking a few questions. Let's go.

[00:02:37] So, Russell, what is your favorite food memory?

[00:02:41] Okay. So, this is kind of a fun memory. We had a summer cottage by the sea and my mother would send my brother and me out in the boat to catch mackerel. And we would go out just as the tide was turning. There was a reef. And we'd just haul the mackerel in. If you hit the time right, they were well there. We'd take them home. We'd clean them and we'd bake them. And it was just great because we had just caught them.

[00:03:11] Wow. That's nice. That's nice. Being able to gather your own food or catch your own food. It's like, yeah, there's something very primal in that for sure. Yeah. So, what is your favorite Christmas or holiday memory?

[00:03:30] I don't have a lot of happy memories of childhood, but I do have a funny one connected to Christmas. My mother was of German Jewish descent, but she put on an English accent. She told everyone she was English and in public, she was openly anti-Semitic.

[00:03:49] So, she went to great lengths to try to mask her Jewish origins. My father basically just went along with everything my mother wanted. He would yell at us from time to time to obey her. Didn't really take much part in anything. But part of my mother's pretense was to have a big Christmas tree. Not just a big Christmas tree, but the biggest Christmas tree on the block. Right.

[00:04:16] And we lived in a split level house. So, the ceiling at one point was about four meters, 13 feet high. And so, we would get this great big tree. Not only did we have the biggest tree on the block, we also had the smallest Christmas tree holder. Think of one of those really small tomato paste tints with three spindly legs coming out of it and this enormous tree stuck in it.

[00:04:46] So, my father would have to cut the bottom of the trunk to a fraction of its diameter to fit in this tiny holder. And then we'd have to carefully balance it so it wouldn't fall over. Right. And then we would hang lights and fragile glass ornaments on this tree. And we also had two cats. And for some unknown reason, they liked to climb trees. Of course. Yes.

[00:05:14] And so, everybody would go to bed. And in the middle of the night, whoop! And the next morning, my mother would be vacuuming all the bits of glass up. We'd be hanging more ornaments on the tree. And she would suggest to my father that, you know, maybe we should have a bigger Christmas tree stand. And he would shout and get angry and say there was nothing wrong with the Christmas tree stand that we had. So, the next night, of course, in the middle of the night, whoop!

[00:05:44] The following morning, my mother would be vacuuming it up. It was, yeah, just over and over. It was actually pretty funny. Oh, yes. I can imagine. I know. We've always had cats for the longest time. And we learned for our Christmas tree, like the bottom third, we get either the wooden ornaments or the plastic ornaments or the handmade ornaments, the stuff that isn't breakable.

[00:06:09] And that's like lower third. And then the nicer ones, it's kind of nice as we go further up the tree because of that. But it's interesting, your background with your mother, a maternal grandmother was Jewish, but kept it a secret. We only found out I had a niece do a DNA test. And it's like, did you know we were Jewish? It's like, really? Her parents died when she was very young, like maybe eight or nine, I believe.

[00:06:35] And then she went into indentured servitude because that was, yeah, like 1800s. That was what you did. And so she worked, obviously, at a non-Jewish couple and was their servant until she reached adulthood. But they gave room and board in exchange. And I guess she just kept it a secret and then just never talked about it at all.

[00:06:58] And yeah, trying to discover that part of my own roots now. That's been an interesting journey in the last few years when I found that. So, yeah, it was interesting that you said that. And you mentioned being involved in Jewish studies and so forth. So, yeah, that's obviously part of your story as well. So I was very interested in hearing that. So speaking of which, what is your favorite church or house of worship memory?

[00:07:25] Okay. So growing up, of course, there was so much pretending around religion that I don't really have good memories of religion or religious institutions as a child. But when I was in my 40s, my mother died and I started a humanistic Jewish group.

[00:07:47] I don't know whatever gave me the chutzpah to that because, you know, I really didn't have the background, but it was important to me to do that. And so we celebrated Jewish tradition and Jewish values. We met in people's homes. We celebrated holidays. We had seders. And that was the start of my spiritual journey.

[00:08:13] That up to that time, it was I really didn't want to have anything to do with religion. And then I started a humanistic group, which wasn't really meant to be Jewish, but I kept being drawn more and more to the spiritual. Right. Wonderful. I think most of my spiritual walk, not a lot of family religion.

[00:08:36] They were very non-religious at all growing up and more discovering that part of myself as a young adult and then as an adult as well. So, yeah. And now it's been such a key part of my own recovery also. Now, do you have a favorite scripture or any inspirational quote that has helped you on your spiritual journey? And what about it speaks to you?

[00:09:00] Okay. So, since I used to be a chaplain, I gave this a lot of thought. And there is an incredibly rich passage that I would like to present to you. And it requires a lot of explanation because when it's usually presented, there is zero explanation. And it requires a lot of explanation. And that is chapter one in Genesis. Jews have a very different take on that passage than Christians.

[00:09:29] In the 10th century, Rabbi Isaac Luria of the town of Tzfat in northern Israel proposed that an expanding universe was created out of light. And that light somehow got turned into matter. And it took centuries before this became known as the Big Bang Theory.

[00:09:53] But this is part of Jewish mystical tradition, what we call Kabbalah. And that is the story of creation that Jews believe in. So, we do not see this chapter as an accurate account of the story of creation. What Jews on the surface would see about this chapter is, of course, that the account of creation is divided into six days.

[00:10:21] And so, all the work of creation is done in six days. And on the seventh day, God rested. What's this telling us? Well, this has, you know, about as much subtlety as a sledgehammer. It's telling us, get all your work done during the week and rest on the Sabbath. So, it's about Sabbath observance. But there is so much more in this passage. It's incredibly important to Judaism.

[00:10:48] It's central to Judaism and Jewish identity. So, as you read through this chapter, after each step of creation, we read, Vayat Elohim Ki Tov. And God saw that it was good. And now comes the most important part of this chapter. Because at the end, when God had made humans and everything, it says, Vahine Tov Ma'od. And behold, it was very good. And then, Vayishbat. And God rested.

[00:11:19] So, here's the question. Why did God rest when the world wasn't perfect? And the answer is that God had made humans. And it is up to humans to finish the work of creation. And we call this Tikkun Olam, repairing the world. It is one of the most important concepts in Judaism. You will never hear Jews saying, we mustn't play God.

[00:11:45] Because in our tradition, we are called on by God to play God. Jews make up about 2% of the population in the United States. 30% of doctors are Jewish. An even higher proportion of mental health professionals are Jewish. And this passage reminds me of the mitzvah, the religious obligation. To repair the world through my work. It's Tikkun Olam.

[00:12:14] When I meet with clients, when I help them heal, I am doing the mitzvah of Tikkun Olam. Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Yeah. And a lot of those beliefs, several Protestant denominations, philosophies on the creation story as well. It's like, okay, is it literal seven days? Or is it figurative seven days? Lots of discussion on that. Yeah. Lots of room for interpretation for sure. And I don't know.

[00:12:42] I think some will say very literal seven days. And others will not say, okay, it's more figurative. So yes. But yes, I love that concept of serving man, fixing the world. Because that's what it needs. And that's kind of what God calls us to do, is to serve others. Love your neighbor. From the New Testament, same philosophy. That, yeah, you show love by helping others, for sure.

[00:13:11] And represent God as well. Yes. It comes from the Old Testament. It does. Yes. So yeah, I love that. Absolutely love that. Okay. So I would love to hear more of your story. Feel free to share as much as you'd like. And I know it doesn't have to be linear. I know my story jumps around because of different things. And I would love to hear about what you went through with your own abuse history, as much as you're willing to share.

[00:13:39] And then how that got into you using that as your vocation as well. And then what you're doing now, which is wonderful. All the research and so forth. And love to pick your brain on all that kind of stuff. Working with child sexual abuse survivors and being a survivor as well. I would love to hear your take on different things. So yes. So start as you would. Okay. I think I would like to start with how I got into this field

[00:14:09] and then relate it back to what happened. That works. Okay. So I would like to start my story when I was in my 40s and I moved from Canada to the U.S. for four years. I was coming from a very liberal country and I felt rather lost in the U.S. But I started attending a synagogue that met in a church just off State Street in Chicago, if anybody knows Chicago.

[00:14:37] And non-Orthodox Jews tend to be very liberal. So I really felt at home. This was the one place in a foreign country where I felt I was with my people. And during that time, I got the idea of becoming a rabbi. I'd started out with this humanistic Jewish group and sort of progressed to thinking about becoming a rabbi. And I returned to Canada. And at this point, I was already doing a master's in Jewish studies.

[00:15:04] And as part of my studies, I became a chaplain intern at a hospital in Calgary and then a campus Jewish chaplain. And during this time, my wife died of an overdose. So that was a pretty tough thing to happen. And I also had a public fight with the head of the local Jewish council, which was an organization. It was basically trying to run everything in town.

[00:15:33] And fortunately, I had overwhelming support from the Jewish students and faculty on campus. It was really heartwarming. So in the end, I prevailed, but I had it. I didn't want to do that anymore. So I went back to hospital chaplaincy and I became the resident chaplain for the emergency intensive care and burn units because being a campus chaplain was just too stressful. Yeah.

[00:16:02] We'll go into the trauma unit. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know what I was thinking. And this was one of the largest hospitals in North America. This was in Calgary, Canada. That's right. But there was a patient in the burn unit that I went to see. He had tried to commit suicide several times and then he'd set himself on fire. And they were fixing him up. And the psychiatric resident said to me,

[00:16:30] well, you know, we're trying to get into a psychiatric program, but he won't go. So when we release him, he'll probably just go home and kill himself. And I said, OK, I'm going to go in there every day and I'm going to talk to him. And I just sat with him and let him talk. I didn't tell him what to do, but I just I was as a chaplain. Your job is just to be a presence. Right. Right. And you're just kind of a connection to something greater.

[00:16:58] And I just sat with him and he gradually started to open up. And one day he told me about someone in Narcotics Anonymous and he had talked them out of committing suicide. And I said, you saved someone's life. And he started crying and he said, I think I'm ready to go into that program now. And that was the point when I realized maybe I have some skills in counseling. And a few days later,

[00:17:27] I got called to the bedside of a patient in the ICU, the intensive care unit. She she was in a coma and I was just coming into the they have cubicles in the ICU. They don't have doors. They have heavy equipment in and out quickly. So I was just pushing the curtain aside. And the woman's husband was just lightly slapping her face saying, wake up, wake up. And my wife had died of an overdose a few months before.

[00:17:56] I just froze and I must have turned absolutely white. And he turned around and saw me. And he walked up to me and he put a hand on my chest. And he said, are you all right? And it was clear I wasn't. And I resigned the next day. I had to. And I enrolled in a master's degree in counseling psychology. And that led to my becoming a therapist.

[00:18:21] And I began to specialize more and more in sexual abuse and sexual assault. I felt as if I had been called to that because of my own experiences of sexual abuse. And it became my passion. And so my own story is really important. It's part of this. So let me take you back and explain what happened.

[00:18:49] When I was four and a half years old, I had a nanny and she left. And I was alone a lot with my mother. And she would call me into her bedroom and she would be naked to the waist. And she'd get me to help her take off her stockings and then have me pull off her panties. And she'd push my head into her genitals. And then she'd take a bath and have me help her dry off.

[00:19:17] And she'd get into bed and she'd have me take off my clothes and get into bed with her. And it wasn't long before she had me performing oral sex on her pretty much every day. Wow. And this just kept going on. When then something really traumatic happened when I was six. We were living in a farmhouse in North Devon. This was in England. My brother and father had left for Canada. My sister was at boarding school.

[00:19:46] I was alone with my mother. And one evening, my mother took me down the road to a primary school. It was just in a small village. It was after hours. There were adults there in sort of BDSM type outfits. They had masks around their eyes. One of them had a camera and one of them had a whip. There was an older girl there. And they were a group that was producing child porn.

[00:20:15] I think the worst part of that experience was actually having to witness it happening to someone else as well. The emotions I felt were horror and just a desperate longing to rescue myself and that girl. Right. Now, you were not just a bystander. Yeah. You were brought into it as well. Yes. Okay.

[00:20:41] And even 60 years later, I still have PTSD flashbacks. I've suffered from PTSD most of my life. Right. And a few years ago, I was watching a crime drama about a hostage take. And at the end of this drama, there was a woman cop leading a little girl to safety. And I just lost it because... Right. I was thinking about a time I wasn't able to rescue a little girl. Right.

[00:21:09] And the abuse continued until, you know, when I was seven or eight. We were now in Canada. I was at school, so I was no longer home during the day. And my mother would come into my room at night. She'd get into my bed. She'd push my head down under the covers. And the abuse continued almost daily until I was 15. Wow. And at 15, I was really small.

[00:21:37] I still had a high-pitched voice. I looked about 12. I was really embarrassed by the fact that, you know, I was so small compared with other boys my age who were, you know, all grown up, had low voices. Right. At this point, there was a woman in my life. I can't identify her for legal reasons. She was in her 20s. She was naked around me a lot.

[00:22:05] And as a result of my mother's abuse, I felt incredibly damaged and contaminated. And it probably looked like an easy target for abuse. And this woman said, well, she would teach me how to be a man. And this abuse went on almost daily for two years. Wow. I was so damaged by what happened to me that I became an alcoholic and an addict in my teens.

[00:22:31] It took me years to overcome addiction, but I now have 33 years clean and sober. Good for you. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. And there were two things in my recovery that influenced me. And the first was my experience in therapy. When I was in my mid-30s struggling to stay sober, you know, I couldn't talk to anyone because I just felt so damaged and contaminated.

[00:22:57] I was constantly irritated, constantly anxious, had major symptoms of PTSD. Right. And one day I was in a bookstore. And I saw a book called Adult Children of Abusive Parents. And it was written by a man. And I bought that book and I felt incredibly guilty for thinking that, you know, I could have been abused. This was when, just around the time that The Courage to Heal was coming out.

[00:23:27] And it was all about, you know, girls are abused. Boys aren't abused. But girls are. And so, you know, how could I possibly think that I was abused? So I took the book home and I hid it at the bottom of a sock drawer. And then a few days later, I took it out and I started reading. And I only got as far as the first line. Like you, I was abused as a child and I lost it. Totally lost it.

[00:23:53] I was curled up on the floor in a fetal position, crying all night long. I cried harder than I'd ever cried in my life. And I got into 12-step programs like Narcotics Anonymous and I got into therapy.

[00:24:08] And the therapist's reaction to hearing that I had been abused by my mother is similar to the reaction that I have had from almost every female therapist I have ever been to. I wonder what made her do that. Can you imagine a female survivor going to a male therapist, talking about how her stepfather raped her as a child? And at the end, the male therapist says, huh, I wonder what made him do that.

[00:24:39] It's incredibly inappropriate. Right. A lot of victim blaming and so forth. Yeah. Yeah. But female therapists, almost without exception, have said that to me. They seem to think it's not only okay, it's necessary. And that makes me angry. And that anger has made me determined to do a better job than the therapist I have been to, most of them. Right.

[00:25:07] And the second thing that happened was a book I bought for male survivors. It came out around 1980. It was sort of a male version of Courage to Heal. The author really didn't seem to have any credentials. And there was an awful lot of misinformation in this book. I mean, I knew as a survivor that what he was talking about just wasn't right. Number one issue for male survivors, obviously, is PTSD. It wasn't even mentioned.

[00:25:35] I gather therapists are still handing this book out to male clients. And it's like, yikes. This is not good. Do you know the title of that book? Well, I don't want to be accused of defaming someone, but it's called Victims No Longer. Okay. Is that with Mike Liu? Yeah. Okay. And yeah, I recently checked and he calls himself a therapist. He is not registered as a therapist. And as far as I can tell, he never has been.

[00:26:05] But anyway, this was a book I couldn't recommend to my clients. So I determined to write a book. And last year, I published one in six, A Man's Guide to Overcoming Childhood Sexual Abuse. One of the first things I did, because I thought it was really important, was to shatter all the stereotypes people had. I felt they were really harming male survivors.

[00:26:28] So I cited some amazing statistics based on reputable studies with tens of thousands of subjects. You can't get any more reputable than that. And three things really stood out. Number one, males experience sexual violence at nearly the same rate as females. Number two, most sexual violence against males is female perpetrated.

[00:26:56] And number three, about a third of sexual abuse of boys is perpetrated by mothers. And in my book, I talk about it. I analyze it. And I, you know, basically I say, look, if you have a problem with this, you take it up with the authors of these studies, like the CDC, the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. Highly reputable researchers. This is what they're saying, right? Males experience sexual violence at nearly the same rate as females.

[00:27:26] Most of it's perpetrated by females. And a third of sexual abuse of boys is perpetrated by mothers. And I find the same in my practice. I've counseled hundreds of male survivors. Of those hundreds, one was abused by a priest. One was abused by a coach. Most of the rest had female perpetrators, principally mothers. Wow. And the male survivors of sexual assault that I have counseled all had female perpetrators.

[00:27:56] When I tell this to female colleagues, a really common reaction is I never see it. In my experience, it's really rare. When I'm talking about female perpetration, what I want to say to them is you see it every day. You just don't want to acknowledge it. And, you know, if one thing I would like this book to do is smarten up some of my colleagues who really try to downplay female perpetration.

[00:28:24] It's a huge problem. So, yeah. In my book, I also talk a lot about PTSD. And, you know, most people, when they think of PTSD, they think combat experience. Right. Fewer than 1% of PTSD sufferers have combat experience. For everyone who has combat experience, more than 100 don't. Number one cause of PTSD? Sexual violence.

[00:28:51] It's most survivors have experienced PTSD and they often don't realize it. I mean, first of all, they think, oh, well, I was never in the military or whatever. But they'll say things to me like, I overreact. And that is a really big clue. Because when you think you're overreacting, you're reacting to something in the past. Something has triggered emotions in you that are appropriate to something that happened in the past. And this is something we work with.

[00:29:20] That it's a kind of a hidden PTSD that you are getting triggered. But you're feeling emotions about what happened to you, even if you don't have a vivid picture in your mind. And if you're a survivor of sexual abuse, there's a good chance you're experiencing at least some degree of post-traumatic stress in your life right now. Very true. Yes. Yeah.

[00:29:44] And in my book, again, another section, I talk about addictions, including porn and sex, which are big issues for male survivors. Right. Yes. And 70% of addicts and alcoholics have a history of child sexual abuse. It is very much connected with child sexual abuse. Then I get to a somewhat thorny issue. It's EMDR. It's called...

[00:30:13] High movement desensitization. Reprocessing, yeah. It's trendy. It's widely used for PTSD. And its popularity is partly due to a best-selling book by a psychiatrist named Bessel van der Kolk. Right. He said how wonderful EMDR is, and he put down cognitive behavioral therapy. American psychological... And he wrote The Body Keeps Us To Core, same author. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:41] And the American Psychological Association freaked out at this. They set up a committee on PTSD treatment, you know, the top experts. And they said, no, EMDR is not recommended. The best treatments for trauma are all based on cognitive behavioral therapy. They mentioned four of them. They're all based on cognitive behavioral therapy.

[00:31:04] So it's something that I really want people to know because a lot of people really push EMDR hard. They say you have to have an EMDR therapist. It's so important. And it isn't the best. It isn't the recommended treatment for PTSD. I need people to know that. Right.

[00:31:24] And then I get to the biggest problem that male survivors have after PTSD and addiction, and it is unfortunately hostile therapists. If you're a female survivor of male perpetrated abuse, I can pretty much guarantee that you will be treated with compassion and empathy.

[00:31:47] If you're a male survivor of female perpetrated abuse, I can pretty much guarantee that your therapist will treat you with hostility. They'll minimize, they'll blame, they'll excuse. And that's an unfortunate fact of life. Right. I've been to a lot of therapists, and I would say the way most female therapists treat male survivors is appallingly inappropriate, and I would like it to stop.

[00:32:13] Yeah, that's something I talk about in my book, and I think I have to, unfortunately. And then in my book, I talk, you know, there's a whole menu of topics, self-care, self-talk if you're looking for a job because that's really hard on your ego. Trauma and relationships, suicide prevention, mindfulness, meditation, assertiveness, anger, dealing with family.

[00:32:36] And then I talk about, you know, be cautious about forgiving your perpetrator because forgiving your perpetrator could mean giving someone a free pass to rape again. One of the things we've learned is it's really important to call people out for what they've done because it stops them doing it again. If you don't call them out, they will do it again and again and again.

[00:33:01] So we've talked about forgiveness on the podcast and other places, and usually the concept of forgiving does not release the person from responsibility of their actions, does not remove any accountability, does not mean reconciliation with the person.

[00:33:19] It's more for our self, but some people have that view of forgiveness skewed and think it means excusing them so they have no accountability. Yeah, and it is important to let go. Right. You can't control what this person did to you, so stop brooding about it and figure out what you can do for yourself to heal. Right.

[00:33:47] So that is, you know, that is my book. A lot of it is appropriate even for female survivors, for survivors of physical or emotional abuse, a lot of stuff about trauma. But, you know, one of the things I do, I have tried to do is point out that what people know about or think they know about abuse of males is totally wrong.

[00:34:15] And that the way that a lot of therapists deal with male survivors is also just plain wrong. So I think you're probably going to be giving a link to my website, russellauthor.ca, and that's where you'll find out about my book. Yes, very interesting. I know with my own therapy.

[00:34:38] My therapist, he knows EMDR and he's been trained in that, but he's been trained in several other practices to help with PTSD and childhood trauma. And I know in talking with people who've had EMDR that it really spills your guts open.

[00:34:58] And it can often be re-traumatizing as you're literally reliving a lot of those things, those traumatic experiences during that therapy. And the whole point of therapy is to stop you reliving what happened to you. Right, right. When you're triggered, you're reliving what happened to you. Right. And yes, they reprocess it, but yes, it can be so re-traumatizing. Yeah, that's difficult.

[00:35:27] So he said with me, and I'm very thankful he did this, he combined several comprehensive resource management. I don't know if you've heard of that before. It was an offshoot of EMDR and actually kind of an offshoot of brain spotting as well. And very helpful. And then he had several other tools in his tool chest that he used.

[00:35:52] Also something called HUNA, which is based on traditional Hawaiian healing practices that he did some of that. And all kinds of things. Very effective. But yeah, he was not, at least for me, he was not a strong proponent of EMDR like you. That it's like, no, because I think he's used it enough.

[00:36:14] And no, it's sometimes a sledgehammer to a problem when sometimes you, like archaeologists, you need like a little brush and a little tiny chisel just getting away at things and working in the healing instead of, you know, a sledgehammer approach. And before we continue, I've got to go to comments. We've got one comment. Very moved by all this.

[00:36:45] Sitting Shiva with you for your lost childhood. Okay. Another person says, I'm holding your story sacred and can relate. I know that person also was abused by females as well. That's a part of his story. Another person, the name of the book, it's called One in Six, A Man's Guide to Overcoming Childhood Sexual Abuse.

[00:37:07] And information on that is Russell, R-U-S-S-E-L-L, author, A-U-T-H-O-R dot C-A. Is it available on Amazon as well? Yes. Yes. And I will have links to the website and to the Amazon link in the show notes. And your private practice is RussellTherapy.ca as well. So yes. Wonderful. Yes.

[00:37:32] They say, if you could name one thing in your recovery from addiction and PTSD that shines more than others, what would that be? That's a hard one. Yes, I know. Well, I ask similar questions. I was planning on asking this as well. When you went through your own therapy process, I know working with others, but for you personally, what worked for you and what didn't work for you? Okay.

[00:38:01] What I think works for me is what I do with my clients, which is the techniques of cognitive behavioral therapy. When you're triggered, you're triggered because of a thought. And you might think, well, the thought is I'm in danger or something like that. But you have to start to dig.

[00:38:21] And typically what I find with clients is that it's something like I made a mistake or I did something wrong and it will just make them feel terrible. And whatever the feeling is in the present that they're struggling with when they're triggered, it's important to make a link to the past.

[00:38:44] And so I say to my clients, was it fair that you were made to feel that way as a child? No, it wasn't. Was it true? No. So a person in your past, either in what they did or what they said, made you feel that way. But you're the person making yourself feel that way now. Can you stop? And we talk about how to stop. It's really hard.

[00:39:09] It's to start identifying when they first start thinking things that will make them spiral. Like I'm worthless. I'm unlovable. I'm a screw up. The moment they start thinking that they have to start challenging it and saying, wait a minute, that's a thought from the past. People made me think that it wasn't true. It wasn't fair. And I can stop doing that to myself.

[00:39:36] And then typically I get them to think positive thoughts about themselves to sort of replace that. So, but you don't do it in one session. It's slow, but it's steady. I have seen clients make incredible progress. You know, people I never thought would improve. And then all of a sudden they're just something happens. And I tell people, yes, it's really hard to challenge those self messages.

[00:40:03] But if you keep doing it, it will get easier. Right. And you'll be able to stop the negative thoughts before they even start. Right. Yeah, there's so much retraining of our brain. I love the concept of neuroplasticity that our brains, even old dogs like us, we can still form new synapses. They do research and studies. And yes, we can still learn. We can still reprogram our brains to form new synapses.

[00:40:32] So we don't have to follow the same routines and reactions that we've had in the past. We can reprogram and retrain our brains into more healthy responses for sure. And therapy definitely is a huge part of that process, especially for those of us who experience so much trauma. I did have a question going back to the abuse in the UK at the elementary school with your mother.

[00:41:01] Have you ever used the term trafficked to describe that experience? That's what happened to me. It was being trafficked for child pornography. Okay. Yeah. And, you know, I, of course, it was in the days before the internet. But I strongly suspect there are pictures out on the web somewhere. Yes, I too was trafficked. And I too suspected that. And I don't know if Canada has an equivalent.

[00:41:30] But in the US, there's the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And I was able to contact them, explain what happened. And they have a database of anything that's been digitized or physical. But then they've digitized anything that they've seized and put it into a database that they can then search for with all the body identification with eyes and so forth. All of that.

[00:41:58] They can identify people that are in these videos, these film records, including anything from the past that has been seized. They've been digitizing it. And I brought them photos of me at that age and so forth. And after a year, they said nothing showed up, but they would keep me in contact in case anything ever did. But that is an option. I don't know if there's a similar agency in Canada or in the UK because it actually happened in the UK where you were trafficked.

[00:42:26] But there's probably agencies you can contact now because everything's so digitized that you can register. It's horrifying as a victim. And it was kind of empowering to say, do I want to know, kind of want to know if it's out there, but then put it out there. And it was healing for me to say, you know, this happened to me. This was wrong. If it's out there, help me get it down.

[00:42:53] And then it would also help my case against my portrayalers and so forth. But that is an option nowadays with how technology is. So definitely want to encourage that or anyone else who's experienced something similar, that there are options where you can get some kind of justice with that and get those taken down.

[00:43:14] And I know the laws are changing more and more for victims who have been forced to produce pornographic images. And now the new term for minors who are used in pornography, it's a CSAM child sexual abuse materials because that's what it is. Because you didn't give permission that children cannot give permission that you were forced or coerced to participate.

[00:43:43] And, yeah, that, yeah, child sexual abuse materials. It's a much more accurate description of all that. And I'm so sorry you had to experience that because I know that was part of my story and very, very difficult to deal with. But, yeah, that is an option. Wow. So much of your story has touched so much. So what has helped with your PTSD as well? Do you have a therapist?

[00:44:10] Are you still doing CBT or has anything else happened? And anything that didn't work well? Did you ever try EMDR yourself or just found it not helpful for your own patients? Or what things have you tried that didn't work very well? So in terms of what I'm doing. For your own recovery, your own healing.

[00:44:35] I have, I think for the first time, I have a therapist that really seems to work for me. It'd be nice if you could clone yourself and go see yourself as a patient with all of your own wisdom. But, yes. It's amazing how many blind spots you have. When someone talks to you, they see something right away and I go, oh, yeah, okay, right. Right. But I have had clients come in who had tried EMDR.

[00:45:03] I sort of get the people who tried it and it failed and they come in and say, all right, can you help me? And, you know, I like to think I can. But the problem is I'm not going to fix you in three sessions. And often that's what people seem to want. Right. They want a quick fix. Right. Yeah. What I can promise is that I can probably help you and you will see improvement.

[00:45:30] And, you know, it may be slow, but, you know, from my own clients, I see steady improvement over time. Sometimes there's a bit of a jump. But, no, you don't get fixed overnight, unfortunately. Right. Right. Right. For sure. Let's see. Yeah. There's a comment on here. Yes, I'm very glad I made the time for this. Russell, thank you for sharing. Yes. Another person in the comments shared that. Yes. I think they asked about one thing that shines.

[00:45:59] I'm not sure what I would say about something shining. I think it's often been just a sense of, well, yeah, I can think of one thing that happened when I first got into therapy. I'd always felt tremendous social anxiety. And I remember the first time I went into a room where there were a whole bunch of people and I didn't feel immediate panic. And that had never happened before.

[00:46:28] And it's like, whoa. And I think my whole recovery has been like that. I start to experience things in my life I never felt before. It's like moments of peace or, you know, moments when I'm not panicking. And it's those are the moments that, you know, to an ordinary person, they would mean nothing. But to someone who suffered from the effects of trauma, it's huge. Right. Right. For sure.

[00:46:56] So now with your life now as a therapist, so you're working with other clients as well. It sounds like pretty much your entire caseload is on abuse survivors. Is that correct? Or you also work with other clients? I work with trauma. And the biggest cause of trauma, of course, is sexual violence. So that's what I get.

[00:47:19] Interestingly, what often happens is people come to me and they start talking about past trauma. And it's not until we get into it that they realize, wait a minute, I was abused. I was sexually abused. Right. You create safety and it starts coming up. Right. Right.

[00:47:44] And so many men do not self-identify that that thing that happened to them when they were younger was abuse. That they will excuse or. And part of the grooming is to convince the victim that you're not being abused, that you are cooperating in this and that you are part of this and you're permitting this to happen. And that's part of the grooming. So oftentimes it takes a lot to get men to the point to realize that they have indeed been abused for sure.

[00:48:14] I commented on the fact that you used to have accounts with couples. I'm not doing it now, but I have. And I would always ask, you know, is there a history of abuse? The man would always put no. And the wife would say, wait a minute. If you have a questionnaire and you ask men if they've been abused, I can pretty much guarantee they're going to say no. If you sit down and start to talk to them.

[00:48:43] And often they won't disclose the abuse. They'll just mention something. Like my mother was, you know, she was naked around me a lot. And you sort of acknowledge that and you say, what else happened? It's like, whoa, get ready. Because it's like they need permission. They need to know that you're going to acknowledge it and you'll be ready to hear what they have to say. Right.

[00:49:11] And I think so many therapists who say they never see it, they don't get to that point. They don't realize that with males, you have to dig. You have to get it out of them. They will not self-disclose right away. That's very common. Very true. Yes. Another person in our audience. Unfortunately, Russell, my experience is much different. The vast majority of men I encounter have been abused by males, including me. And I would second that. That's part of my story as well.

[00:49:41] I'm surprised to hear you say it was mostly female abusers. And apparently that's been your experience. And I think that also goes underreported. And that. Yeah, I think. I think part of it is it's very, very difficult. For male survivors of abuse by a female to come forward. And I think even in organizations for male survivors, they often miss that.

[00:50:08] They tend to be top heavy with males who are abused by males. And they're getting totally the wrong picture because the evidence is beyond doubt. Most sexual abuse of males is perpetrated by females. I mean, you can look at the it's the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. 16,000 households in the U.S. They did this huge survey. And that's what they got that in every category of sexual abuse, except the rate, which was very,

[00:50:38] very narrowly defined. The majority of males responding said that males were not involved in any of their abuse ever. Right. Right. And then again, do they define abuse and so forth? Yeah, I'm sure. Just like you mentioned with the survey, it's hard to get them to disclose one way or the other. For sure. Another comment.

[00:51:04] I started my real recovery work this year from sexual abuse from a priest and males when I was a young boy. I'm 47 now. Can you tell me how true your words were when it comes to finding the right therapist? So it is hard. It is really hard to find a good therapist. Right. And, you know, it take time. Be very careful who you get. Talk to them.

[00:51:30] Make sure that this is someone that you can really open up to and feel safe with. Because if they're giving out bad vibes, just run. And then sometimes you can outgrow a therapist as well. I know I had a therapist I worked with for a couple of years. It was mostly cognitive behavioral therapy, some chair work, different kinds of things. Extremely helpful. Helped me overcome the pornography addiction. But, yeah, I reached a point and she could kind of tell.

[00:52:00] And it's like, well, yeah, she was kind to refer me elsewhere. And I was feeling like, yeah, I was like I was outgrowing her. Then I found another therapist, one that she recommended. But then by then I realized, oh, I had PTSD because I didn't know. And she didn't know that I had PTSD. And so I worked with this therapist and he didn't work with PTSD, but he helped me find someone who did. And that took my insurance.

[00:52:26] And he's been my therapist for several years and has helped tremendously. But, yeah, sometimes it takes time. And now I'm at a point I only see him occasionally when I need it. But I get tons of other support with husband material and our coaching staff and working with others. And I've got my own little support teams. They call triads, little accountability groups where kind of like, yeah, peer support groups.

[00:52:53] I've got several of those that I work with as well, as well as the leadership. So the need for therapy in my own life has lessened. But still there because stuff still happens. I still get triggered. I still have PTSD. PTSD, all kinds of stuff still comes out. And then I'll get to a point. It's like, Brad, help. It's like, OK, yeah, sometimes da, da, da, da, da. And if he has time, boom, he'll be right there with me. And it's been wonderful.

[00:53:23] But it is very hard to find a good therapist who is also trained with therapy and won't just use a sledgehammer. So many found MDR. Oh, I can learn that. And then everything is MDR. And that's the only thing that they learn and the only technique. So if the only thing in your toolbox is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And so, yeah, thankfully, my therapist, he's got all kinds of tools in his toolbox.

[00:53:49] So he can mix and match and pull from one technique or another technique and so forth and use that working with me. And that's been so helpful. But, yeah, so many just don't have a lot of training or experience. Yeah. And sometimes you might need a slower approach. Like, I went to the CBT therapist for two years and it was very helpful. Though, yeah, I needed to go deeper in someone who was trained with PTSD as well.

[00:54:17] It'd be interesting having someone trained in CBT therapy who is also trained in PTSD and how you combine those techniques as well. That would be interesting. And obviously, you do that with your own practice. So it'd be interesting to see how that works. Yes. It has to be trauma-informed. You have to link what's happening in someone's life today with what happened to them in the past. Right. Right.

[00:54:43] And my first therapist did that, but never really talked about actual PTSD, that I was probably suffering from that and everything that goes with it. So it's wonderful to see that you have that with your clients that you work with. That's wonderful. And we've got a few more comments. One, my therapist liked that too with what I had mentioned that sounds like a multidisciplinary approach. Big toolbox.

[00:55:12] Lots of different tools to use. And another, thank you so much, Mike and Russell. Got so much out of this amazing talk. So any closing thoughts for our listener? Oh, my gosh. Closing thoughts. I think what I would say is that there may be times when you feel hopeless. And in my book, I talk about, I use the analogy of a desert.

[00:55:39] And I actually lived in a desert for a while. And how the rain can come and the desert can bloom. And I say, you know, this can happen with healing from trauma too. That you may go back there. You may actually have to go back there several times. But when you're in that desert, there's still stuff happening. There's still stuff being worked out. And don't give up. Just don't give up. Right.

[00:56:08] Very wise words that you're sharing for sure. I've heard a quote recently. Chase your pain and you will find your healing. And that's similar thought. Yeah. And it feels like you're in the desert for a long time. And I'm going through it. But it's, yeah, you come through and it's so much of a healthier place. I know when I started doing my heavy therapy work, so difficult. Most painful things I've done. Getting through so much of it.

[00:56:38] Getting through processing so much of the pain. And uncovering memories. All my trafficking was blocked in memory. I didn't even knew that I had been trafficked until 2019. So this is all new information. And then opening up the floodgates of the memories and the body sensations and so forth. But working through that and finding healing. And then getting to a point where, like you, I'm working with others.

[00:57:07] So healing for my own journey. Helping other men. And it sounds like that's part of your own healing journey. That you're helping men. And by helping other men, it also heals a part of you too, I would think. Oh, yes. Yes. Wonderful. And thank you so much for sharing from your heart and your story with all of us here. And the listeners at home that are hearing your story. And again, all the links are in the show notes about the book and so forth.

[00:57:36] And thank you so much for being here, Russell. Thank you so much for your time. Well, thank you for having me. Yes. And we'll see you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. If you would like to learn more about my coaching with Polar Live Consulting, where I provide one-on-one coaching and group coaching, both with a focus on healing for male survivors, reach out to me at polarlifeconsulting.com.

[00:58:05] That is polar spelled P-O-L-A-R. I would love to hear from you. I want to hear your story. If you would like your story featured on this podcast, contact me via my website. If you like this podcast, please rate and review because that's how other people can find me. And I really want to spread this message of healing and hope to others. And remember, you are not alone. Healing is possible. And the abuse was not your fault. Let me repeat that.

[00:58:35] The abuse was not your fault. See you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.