53 - [VIDEO] Special: Christmas 2024 - Marcus Spaur Interviews Mike

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] Christmas greetings to you and today is my Christmas special. Recently, my friend Marcus Spaur, host of the Between the Covers podcast, interviewed me for his podcast. We talked about my story, my healing journey and my Santa journey. Because of this, I thought it was a perfect option for my Christmas episode. Video version is available on Spotify and YouTube.

[00:00:55] I also interviewed Marcus and my interview with him will post later on in January. Have a wonderful Christmas and a hopeful and healing new year.

[00:01:15] Greetings friends and welcome to the Between the Covers podcast where we are working every day to remove the self limiting beliefs that are preventing us from becoming heroes of our own stories.

[00:01:26] I am Marcus Spahr and first and foremost, before we dive into today's hero study. I want to offer a disclaimer here. I interview a very dear friend of mine and he has some very troubling dynamics in his story.

[00:01:45] He has experienced childhood sexual abuse and trafficking and exploitation from members of clergy and he goes into some details, not graphic details by any means.

[00:02:05] But if this is something that you are doing, but if this is something that you find very uncomfortable, then I do want to remind you there is absolutely no shame in skipping this podcast or giving yourself breaks as necessary.

[00:02:23] Take care of yourself while you are listening to this episode.

[00:02:30] And I hope that you are able to learn some about a friend and the ways that he has overcome trials, tribulations, and some outright nefarious behavior against him.

[00:02:50] I have the incredible privilege of being able to introduce a dear friend of mine.

[00:02:58] His name is Mike Chapman. He and I are life coaches.

[00:03:02] We've gone through a lot of the similar trainings together and just a brief introduction in who Mike Chapman is.

[00:03:11] Mike Chapman is a survivor of incestual childhood sexual abuse and familiar sexual trafficking, including ritual abuse and mind control, and a survivor of sexual assault by clergy as a young adult.

[00:03:25] In his spiritual journey to recovery, Mike has had to battle, among other things, anger, PTSD, anxiety, codependency, and addictive behaviors, including porn addiction.

[00:03:38] Mike is currently a recovery life coach and brain spotting provider for both Polar Life Consulting and Husband Material.

[00:03:46] Mike also hosts his own podcast, Healing for Male Survivors, with Mike Chapman, where he interviews male survivors of sexual trauma and those who serve them, available on most platforms.

[00:03:58] I listen to this podcast every single week. It's really good to just hear these people share their stories.

[00:04:09] So I highly encourage any of you who are interested, just go ahead and follow and listen to what he has to say.

[00:04:16] In addition to coaching, Mike is also a sign language interpreter and a professional Santa Claus portrayal artist.

[00:04:23] He's been happily married to his wife, Beth, for over 33 years, and they have two adult children.

[00:04:30] He and Beth live in Hubert, North Carolina.

[00:04:33] To find out more or to contact Mike, you can email him at polarlifeconsulting at gmail.com.

[00:04:40] And I will include his email and links to connect with him in the show notes as well.

[00:04:46] So you can just look down there in order to check him out.

[00:04:50] So, Mike, welcome.

[00:04:52] Thank you, Marcus.

[00:04:53] It's thrilled to be here and lovely to see your face again.

[00:04:58] It's good to see your face, too.

[00:04:59] It's been far too long at this point.

[00:05:03] It's not like life hasn't been crazy.

[00:05:05] And I know things are going to get crazy for you as you're Santa-ing here in the very near future.

[00:05:12] Exactly. Very much so. Yes.

[00:05:14] And when I was thinking about who I wanted to do a hero study on, and I was looking that, oh, you know what?

[00:05:23] This one is going to be for my December of 2024.

[00:05:29] Last December, I did Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.

[00:05:32] And I was like, you know what?

[00:05:34] I'm really wanting to interview some people.

[00:05:36] Who better to ask first than my friend who's a professional Santa to be the hero study for the Christmas season?

[00:05:44] So I'm so glad you're able to do this.

[00:05:46] I am extremely honored to be on your list of heroes.

[00:05:51] And that's a very honorable list of names.

[00:05:54] I've listened to a whole bunch of your episodes, including the Christmas ones.

[00:05:58] I'm a few months behind.

[00:06:01] But, yes, I had gotten that one.

[00:06:04] I think James Earl Jones, I haven't gotten that one yet.

[00:06:07] But, yes, I'm in good company and quite honored.

[00:06:11] Awesome.

[00:06:14] Well, you are the expert in your own story.

[00:06:18] And so I would like for you to just begin wherever you would like to begin in sharing your story.

[00:06:25] And I will just ask questions in order for us to see the heroic nature and attributes of this fantastic man named Mike Chapman.

[00:06:39] Thank you, Marcus.

[00:06:40] Well, I grew up in Oregon.

[00:06:45] And like my intro said, I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and sex trafficking, both from family members.

[00:06:56] And all those traumatic experiences I blocked out until I was much older.

[00:07:03] The abuse I blocked out until I was 30.

[00:07:05] The trafficking I blocked out until 2019.

[00:07:10] And then once I started remembering, then I was able to start getting the healing.

[00:07:18] At 30, I was a new parent at the time.

[00:07:23] And so I did what I could at the time.

[00:07:27] And I'm 60 now.

[00:07:30] So this was literally 30 years ago in the mid-90s.

[00:07:36] And there was not much out there available for healing at all, especially for males dealing with this issue.

[00:07:46] There was not a lot out there.

[00:07:47] So I got what I could.

[00:07:49] And I didn't have strong insurance and didn't know where to turn.

[00:07:53] And I didn't even know if anyone could help me about this.

[00:07:58] So I got help where I could in different Christian circles, dealing with some of the symptoms I was incurring at the time.

[00:08:10] And then kind of backed it away a little bit as my kids got older and I was very involved in raising them.

[00:08:17] We also had a daughter at the time.

[00:08:19] And then later I had a son, moved to North Carolina.

[00:08:22] And it wasn't until we became anti-nesters, the kids moved out of the house, as they do.

[00:08:31] Then started working on myself and my own stuff because I had time.

[00:08:38] And in 2019, I watched the documentary on HBO, Leaving Neverland, and talked about those survivors in that story.

[00:08:51] And that inspired me to really reopen my journey.

[00:08:55] And they had an Oprah special that followed as well.

[00:08:58] It's still on Macs now if you want to watch it.

[00:09:00] It's all that stuff is in there.

[00:09:02] And the Oprah special is on the special features.

[00:09:06] They mentioned an online group, malesurvivor.org.

[00:09:12] And it's an online group.

[00:09:14] They basically forum.

[00:09:16] You can type stuff, share your story.

[00:09:18] They encourage anonymity because it is a public forum.

[00:09:22] So you can join, use a fake name, a fake ID on there.

[00:09:27] But then that gives you the freedom to be as honest as you want and just spill.

[00:09:34] And that was so freeing.

[00:09:35] And there is, at the time it was like 15, now it's 20 years old, of men, thousands upon thousands of male victims of sexual trauma, sharing their stories, their struggles, their successes, and interacting and supporting one another.

[00:09:57] The sad part about that, it was very helpful for me.

[00:10:01] But to talk about faith, they kind of put it in this little ghetto of spirituality subforum.

[00:10:08] So you can talk about that stuff there.

[00:10:09] But we don't want to hear about it out here, which I can understand there's a lot of church hurt, a lot of abuse by clergy.

[00:10:16] And that also happened to me as a young adult at age 20.

[00:10:20] So I get that.

[00:10:21] But it was difficult to not include that as part of my story.

[00:10:26] One thing I have in Husband Material, I've tried to develop something similar for men with a faith-based perspective to be able to come and share their struggles of sexual trauma there within Husband Material.

[00:10:41] And you can find more about that on my website as well.

[00:10:44] And that's the thing of my podcast is Power of Story.

[00:10:48] And because I listened to that Leaving Neverland documentary, they were telling their story.

[00:10:55] And I listened to that, and that inspired me to get healing.

[00:10:59] And so I started to get healing and eventually got to the point where I could tell my story.

[00:11:04] First anonymously, then on different podcasts and different platforms, I was able to share my story as well.

[00:11:11] And people heard my story and got inspired to get healing from my story.

[00:11:19] Who knew?

[00:11:20] That was mind-blowing that people would actually listen and be inspired.

[00:11:25] And what's really cool is they started sharing their story, and people got inspired by their story to get healing from them.

[00:11:32] So it's like this snowball effect.

[00:11:34] So I've got story grandchildren out there getting healing because I shared.

[00:11:40] And I shared because the other person shared.

[00:11:45] So it's this chain reaction, which is just so powerful that men can come out and share their truth, share their story, and inspire healing in others.

[00:11:59] Because men for so long didn't talk about it.

[00:12:02] I know recently on the news, the whole Menendez trial, that the district attorney in L.A. is looking at restructuring their sentence so they would be eligible for parole.

[00:12:20] And at the time when they were convicted, no one believed them because no one talked about male sexual abuse at all.

[00:12:26] So they figured it must have been made up.

[00:12:27] No one believed them because no one had heard of such a thing or could imagine someone doing such a thing, especially someone within their own family.

[00:12:34] Though it was rampant everywhere back then.

[00:12:38] It was all over the place.

[00:12:39] And you know what?

[00:12:41] One of the things that changed.

[00:12:44] The discussion on this.

[00:12:47] Someone from the 80s boy band Menudo came out in the past year or so.

[00:12:55] Yeah, past year or so.

[00:12:57] Shared their story that Menudo turned out was actually sex trafficking front.

[00:13:04] So all the young boys up to age 15, 16, and then they would age out and they would replace them with younger members.

[00:13:11] Was sex trafficking front.

[00:13:13] So they would abuse boys and bring them to different things.

[00:13:17] And all those boys would be abused.

[00:13:20] But because of part of the grooming, grooming the parents, parents are getting the money.

[00:13:25] So, oh, this is a good man.

[00:13:28] He's taking care of us.

[00:13:29] You don't say anything bad about him.

[00:13:30] So there's that whole grooming aspect.

[00:13:33] But because someone stood up and said, okay, yes.

[00:13:38] I was abused not only by the manager, but he would bring me to other places.

[00:13:43] And he signed a record deal in L.A.

[00:13:47] And a music executive's house.

[00:13:49] They were signing a new contract.

[00:13:51] And I then had to let that music executive also abuse me sexually.

[00:13:59] And guess who that was?

[00:14:01] The Mandendes' father.

[00:14:03] So because he shared that story, the power of that story, it now validates the Menendez brothers' story of being abused.

[00:14:14] It's further evidence that, yes, that did indeed happen.

[00:14:20] And he didn't know originally when he came out and talked about it that it was that guy.

[00:14:24] He just knew it was this music executive.

[00:14:26] But then it came out and they realized, wait, do you know who that was?

[00:14:31] And that that was the Menendez brothers' father that did that.

[00:14:34] And he never put that together.

[00:14:37] And someone mentioned that.

[00:14:38] And now that's come out just in the last year or so.

[00:14:41] And that is causing this reconsideration of the entire Menendez case.

[00:14:46] That's the power of story.

[00:14:48] That sharing your story, sharing your truth, sharing your struggles, sharing your trauma and how you've overcome that.

[00:14:56] And so powerful.

[00:14:59] Other people can hear it and get inspired to find their own healing.

[00:15:03] Exactly.

[00:15:05] And I have been able to walk with you on some of this journey as you have been going through your own recovery, getting into your story.

[00:15:16] And I have seen just incredible growth and strength coming from you.

[00:15:25] I mean, I can just hear the passion in your voice as you're talking about these things.

[00:15:31] And that's one thing for me why it's so important for us to get into our stories.

[00:15:37] Because through our stories, we start to find the hurts and the pains that we're still holding on to.

[00:15:47] And then we can transform those into something more profound.

[00:15:53] And it actually becomes a strength of ours.

[00:15:56] And so I want to ask you, because my heart was heavy as you were sharing about all of these things that happened to you.

[00:16:07] And a lot of it was repressed.

[00:16:10] Yes.

[00:16:11] Because our brains are incredible at protecting us from these horrific experiences.

[00:16:19] Yes, absolutely.

[00:16:22] When you started to realize that this dynamic of your story, this sex trafficking from family members and the sexual abuse that happened to you, I bet that was just very hard for you to reconcile at the time.

[00:16:44] Right.

[00:16:44] How did you handle that?

[00:16:46] Absolutely.

[00:16:47] Absolutely.

[00:16:49] And it came out.

[00:16:51] The trafficking came out because I went on Mail Survivor, shared my story, and mentioned I have this huge black hole of memory that I call it right around first grade where I remember virtually nothing.

[00:17:03] I remembered kindergarten really well.

[00:17:05] I remember second grade really well.

[00:17:07] First grade is nothing.

[00:17:09] And I would even see, like, my class picture.

[00:17:13] And I think I found it once.

[00:17:14] I haven't found it again.

[00:17:16] And I saw my teacher's picture.

[00:17:17] And it's like, who's she?

[00:17:20] No recognition.

[00:17:21] A few people who I remembered from kindergarten and second grade, yes, I could pick them out.

[00:17:27] I could not remember even seeing my teacher before.

[00:17:32] So I knew that was important information.

[00:17:36] So then discussing with some of the guys on the forum, well, what do you remember?

[00:17:40] And start sharing.

[00:17:42] So all the little snippet stories I could remember, there was one specific memory that actually happened later.

[00:17:48] But something told me it was really important.

[00:17:50] So I shared it.

[00:17:51] And it was this weird camping experience that my father took me to, woke me up in the middle of the night, said, OK, we're going camping.

[00:18:00] This is last minute.

[00:18:02] No prep.

[00:18:02] Hey, we're going camping in a couple of weeks.

[00:18:05] Hey, circle it on the calendar, whatever.

[00:18:07] Nothing like that.

[00:18:08] Middle of the night.

[00:18:09] We're going camping.

[00:18:09] Hey, grab your mattress.

[00:18:11] We're going to put it in the back of the station wagon.

[00:18:13] It was the 70s.

[00:18:13] Everyone drove a station wagon.

[00:18:15] And we're going camping.

[00:18:16] It's like, OK.

[00:18:17] So I did what he said.

[00:18:18] We put it in the back of the station wagon.

[00:18:20] And we drove off.

[00:18:22] And what I remember is waking up in the back seat in the line to get gas because this was, I believe, 73.

[00:18:34] And if you're old enough, that was a huge gas crisis where there was a gas shortage for whatever economic, political thing was going on at the time and huge gas lines.

[00:18:48] So whatever sedative he gave me apparently wore off while we were waiting because it was a four-hour drive nowadays from where we lived to where we ended up.

[00:19:02] And so gas guzzlers back then, you had to fill a couple times.

[00:19:08] And he got stuck.

[00:19:12] And by the time he got out, whatever sedative I got, I woke up.

[00:19:16] And I wasn't supposed to.

[00:19:18] And we pulled into the campground.

[00:19:20] And I saw exactly the name of the campground.

[00:19:23] I knew where we were and so forth.

[00:19:25] And saw the rows of cars and all these dads there.

[00:19:29] And it was me and two other boys.

[00:19:31] They saw, apparently, from my perspective, yeah, I didn't know where the other boys were.

[00:19:38] But there was three of us.

[00:19:40] And they said, okay, you guys stay here.

[00:19:43] It was a lake, a campground by a lake.

[00:19:45] You guys stay.

[00:19:46] You see this big boulder.

[00:19:47] You stay on that side of the boulder.

[00:19:48] And don't come into any of these buildings.

[00:19:51] And we will bring meals to you.

[00:19:52] And you have fun.

[00:19:53] Stay out of the water.

[00:19:55] Don't come past this boulder.

[00:19:58] And we did.

[00:19:59] So that's what we did all day.

[00:20:02] No games.

[00:20:03] No fun.

[00:20:03] No tents.

[00:20:06] No fishing.

[00:20:07] Nothing like that that you might do on a normal camping event.

[00:20:10] That was it.

[00:20:11] That was our day.

[00:20:14] But something said, remember this day.

[00:20:17] And I did.

[00:20:19] And I put that on there.

[00:20:21] And someone said, you know, that was probably a boy swap event.

[00:20:26] And I asked, well, what is that?

[00:20:29] And they describe it.

[00:20:31] That is very common for sexual trafficking.

[00:20:34] Very well organized.

[00:20:36] And this is pre-internet.

[00:20:37] So this is all under the table.

[00:20:39] Kitty porn magazines probably had classified ads and so forth.

[00:20:44] Saying, hey, get up with here.

[00:20:46] And, you know, the networking.

[00:20:47] That would happen.

[00:20:49] Organizing these events.

[00:20:50] They would apparently man-boy orgy.

[00:20:55] And the boys are sedated.

[00:20:57] Or mostly sedated.

[00:21:01] And, yeah.

[00:21:03] That's what it was.

[00:21:05] And then that was hard enough.

[00:21:08] And then discussing this.

[00:21:10] And someone said, yeah, you know, that's called trafficking.

[00:21:14] There's a name for it.

[00:21:15] Wait, what?

[00:21:17] And, but I don't think there was.

[00:21:20] Money didn't change hands.

[00:21:21] Doesn't matter.

[00:21:22] The opportunity to be a participant because you brought a boy.

[00:21:27] That's payback.

[00:21:28] Even though it's not financial payback.

[00:21:30] And you're underage.

[00:21:31] So I, it meets the legal definition of trafficking.

[00:21:37] That was devastating.

[00:21:38] So it was extra devastating.

[00:21:40] Realizing what happened to me.

[00:21:41] Which once it was disclosed, so many more things made sense to my own story.

[00:21:46] And all the symptoms I had.

[00:21:47] That didn't tie necessarily to the abuse at all.

[00:21:53] But there was still a whole bunch of unexplained things.

[00:21:57] Now those other unexplained things made more sense.

[00:22:01] But then that label, I was trafficked.

[00:22:10] That concept, that label, it's strong.

[00:22:14] But then it's like, okay, yeah.

[00:22:19] Yeah, it helped me understand it better.

[00:22:24] And, but devastating at the same time.

[00:22:26] And then reliving those traumas as I, well, I was already seeing a PTSD therapist at that point.

[00:22:31] And everything that came out in the forum got confirmed in therapy.

[00:22:36] He was able to do his magic, so to speak.

[00:22:41] And get confirmation on everything.

[00:22:44] But all these things happened.

[00:22:45] And then the floodgates opened.

[00:22:48] As far as getting those traumas out, I started having flashbacks.

[00:22:53] PTSD flashbacks.

[00:22:54] As if I were there.

[00:22:56] And those things were happening to me.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:03] There's a quote, chase your pain and you'll find your healing.

[00:23:06] Well, I chased that pain.

[00:23:08] And had to go through it.

[00:23:11] And confront it hard.

[00:23:15] And come out on the other end.

[00:23:18] And hardest thing I ever did was to face those demons, if you will.

[00:23:23] And come out healed on the other side.

[00:23:26] And now I'm helping other men.

[00:23:29] Not only sharing their story, but now doing coaching as well.

[00:23:33] Now, brain spotting is another tool in my toolbox.

[00:23:37] And I can help men understand the traumas better.

[00:23:43] And learn how to find healing.

[00:23:48] And you said that you really had to face these demons.

[00:23:55] These demons from your past.

[00:23:57] These demons that were pulled up inside of you because of these experiences.

[00:24:02] That your mind was just like, we can't handle these.

[00:24:08] We really can't handle these.

[00:24:11] I bet there was a lot of fear in going back and having to face these.

[00:24:22] Right.

[00:24:24] It was weird.

[00:24:26] I was going through reopening that in 2019.

[00:24:31] Looking at my story hard.

[00:24:33] But there was this unexplainable itch.

[00:24:39] This, I label it as a hankering.

[00:24:42] As they say down south.

[00:24:44] That my brain was telling me, this is really important.

[00:24:52] Look into this.

[00:24:53] Big red flashing signs.

[00:24:55] Saying, look into this memory block.

[00:24:57] This is really important.

[00:24:59] And now is the time to look into it.

[00:25:01] And then I did.

[00:25:03] And it's like, wow.

[00:25:05] But as it was coming.

[00:25:06] It was like, it was so close.

[00:25:08] And I was sharing and so forth.

[00:25:10] And it was like a big zit or a boil.

[00:25:14] That's just under the skin.

[00:25:16] Not quite ready to pop.

[00:25:17] And you can like squeeze it.

[00:25:18] But it's like that, you want it to pop.

[00:25:21] That's how it felt like.

[00:25:22] That it was ready to explode.

[00:25:26] And then it finally did.

[00:25:29] And huge release.

[00:25:31] But also what happens?

[00:25:32] All that disgusting infection has to come out to properly heal.

[00:25:37] So, sorry, gross anatomy.

[00:25:40] Well, and at the same time, I mean, that's a perfect and just apt description.

[00:25:46] Because at the same time, sometimes those can leave a crater.

[00:25:52] And those craters can take even longer to heal over.

[00:25:58] And sometimes that just shows how difficult and how large of an impact these can have.

[00:26:07] Right.

[00:26:08] Right.

[00:26:09] And I know someone that I work with mentioned healing.

[00:26:14] It doesn't look like you're completely healed as if nothing ever happened.

[00:26:22] That is not what healing looks like.

[00:26:25] Healing is like a big scar.

[00:26:27] So, if you got burned, skin, skin grafts, whatever, you're healed.

[00:26:34] You're whole.

[00:26:35] You're no longer in danger of getting infection.

[00:26:37] But those scars are very real.

[00:26:39] And they're not going to go away.

[00:26:44] And so, you can never go back to how I would have been had I not been abused.

[00:26:51] I can go forward through my healing, through the wounds, through the scars.

[00:26:58] Like those Kinsagi bowls.

[00:27:00] The broken pottery that they put together with gold.

[00:27:03] And it's even more beautiful than the original whole pottery would have been.

[00:27:12] And, yeah, it's that new normal of healing.

[00:27:17] And they say it's a journey.

[00:27:18] And it's definitely a journey.

[00:27:20] I'm still getting through things.

[00:27:22] Stuff comes up.

[00:27:23] I still get triggered.

[00:27:25] Sometimes severely.

[00:27:28] Never planned.

[00:27:29] It just happens.

[00:27:30] And you do what you have to do.

[00:27:35] I think one of the important takeaways from what you just shared there is if we could plan for our triggers, we likely wouldn't struggle the way that we do.

[00:27:48] And so, you have had quite a journey now of processing through these triggers, of learning about your past, of finding this healing.

[00:28:02] And there are probably a lot of people that hear your story.

[00:28:07] And they're just like, I don't know how I would have been able to do something like that.

[00:28:14] And so, what I'm really curious, Mike, is where did you find that strength?

[00:28:22] Good question.

[00:28:23] Good question.

[00:28:24] I know faith is an important part of me and my journey.

[00:28:29] And despite the fact that, yes, one of my perps was a full-time senior Methodist minister.

[00:28:39] That messed me up for a little bit, but I came to the realization he was just a bad man who applied to be the leader of a church.

[00:28:49] It had nothing to do with God and we're in a sinful world with free will and bad stuff happens.

[00:28:59] And being okay about that, yes, I wish it didn't happen, though I kept my faith strong.

[00:29:07] And, yeah, definitely trusted God to help guide me on this journey of healing.

[00:29:17] And I know when, for example, I started going to the PTSD therapist, not a Christian, and I knew he would have all kinds of weird mumbo-jumbo, new age kind of things that he would use.

[00:29:34] And, okay, can I be a Christian and go through all this stuff?

[00:29:37] And I talked to my pastor about it.

[00:29:39] He gave me a verse from Isaiah.

[00:29:42] Don't know what it is offhand, but basically God is going to lead you and protect you from behind.

[00:29:49] So he literally has your six in military jargon that he also is leading the forefront, but he also has my back.

[00:29:58] And he will protect me going through the battle.

[00:30:02] And that was so encouraging.

[00:30:03] So even though this was a non-Christian therapist, he still has a lot of knowledge and knows how to work through these issues in unique ways that others would not.

[00:30:19] And I can still find healing and trust God to help me navigate through the mumbo-jumbo.

[00:30:28] Because so much of it, I was able to see it's biblical, renewing of your mind, all these things that there's all kinds of scriptures supporting a lot of this stuff.

[00:30:43] And so much of it is paralleled in the different healing prayer models out there.

[00:30:50] Very similar experiences.

[00:30:53] It's just a secular label on a lot of it.

[00:30:56] But then he would say, okay, you need to draw power from blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:31:01] I know my power comes from the Holy Spirit.

[00:31:03] And it's like, no, I think I'm good.

[00:31:04] We can skip that part.

[00:31:06] Really?

[00:31:06] Are you sure?

[00:31:07] Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.

[00:31:10] Oh, okay.

[00:31:11] Well, we'll see how it goes.

[00:31:12] And we jump that step, go to the next step, and go through the process.

[00:31:16] And everything went really well.

[00:31:17] He's like, oh, I guess you didn't need that.

[00:31:19] Like, nope, nope.

[00:31:20] I know where my power comes from.

[00:31:21] It's like, okay.

[00:31:22] And he was respectful of that.

[00:31:24] And that was nice.

[00:31:26] Yeah, I've learned so much from him.

[00:31:29] And things like brain spotting that we both are practitioners for.

[00:31:35] And the similar types of deep brain work to help, because that's where a lot of this trauma lies.

[00:31:44] And being able to get in there with virtual scalpels, trying to free the mind of all of that filth, all that trauma.

[00:31:57] And it takes someone who really knows what they're doing, and he definitely does.

[00:32:05] So that having that faith guiding me through this process and all the avenues that it's taken has just been tremendous, for sure.

[00:32:46] Yeah.

[00:32:48] Who comes along and is able to instruct and teach and guide so that we can step into our strengths.

[00:32:59] And to a certain degree, it sounds like this therapist may have been one of those mentors.

[00:33:07] But I'm also curious because I know quite a bit about your story.

[00:33:12] Where else have you found these guides that have helped you take something so terrible and tragic in your life and turn it into a strength?

[00:33:23] It's a long list, actually.

[00:33:26] I know every year on Father's Day to honor those father figures in my life.

[00:33:32] I do a post on Facebook.

[00:33:33] And the ones I have links for, I link to them specifically.

[00:33:38] Everyone who was like a father figure to me at different stages in my life, honoring them.

[00:33:44] A lot of them are pastors.

[00:33:45] A lot of them are pastors or spiritual-related leaders of one type or another.

[00:33:52] And not all of them, some family members.

[00:33:55] Mr. Rogers is on there.

[00:33:56] I love Mr. Rogers.

[00:33:58] Mr. Rogers is a good mentor to have.

[00:34:00] Yeah, yeah.

[00:34:01] Yeah, he taught me to tie my shoes.

[00:34:06] And I was five or five, third born.

[00:34:12] No one had time to teach me because mom and dad both worked.

[00:34:17] She worked nights.

[00:34:18] He worked days.

[00:34:21] And older siblings didn't have time to teach me.

[00:34:23] They tried, but weren't patient with me.

[00:34:27] And yes, he took the time on his TV show and did the little things with the rabbit ears or whatever he described.

[00:34:35] And I learned it.

[00:34:37] And I did it.

[00:34:37] And I was so proud of myself.

[00:34:39] And he taught me.

[00:34:40] And it's like, oh.

[00:34:42] And just his way of just being such a genteel man really helped my little boy heart.

[00:34:53] It's interesting his name came up because when I got involved with husband material, once I heard, that's where the two of us met, Drew Boa's story, who's the leader.

[00:35:03] He is sexually frank like Dr. Ruth from the 80s.

[00:35:09] If you're as old as I am, you know who that is.

[00:35:12] And I joke, it's as if Dr. Ruth and Mr. Rogers had a son.

[00:35:19] And he grew up to be a pastoral sex addiction professional PSAP.

[00:35:25] I guess that's it.

[00:35:27] Yeah.

[00:35:27] Hey, got it right.

[00:35:28] Because, yes, he talks sexually frank like Dr. Ruth, but he has this huge, soft heart just like Mr. Rogers.

[00:35:38] And those wounded boys inside of us can really relate and receive his words of healing.

[00:35:47] I just ate it up.

[00:35:48] And that's exactly who I needed to help me heal from a lot of these wounds.

[00:35:52] When I joined, I was already free from pornography for a couple of years.

[00:35:56] When I joined, now it's six years now.

[00:35:59] Yay.

[00:36:00] And but still had a lot of sexual brokenness, kind of dry drunk kind of thing.

[00:36:05] Still had a lot of issues dealing with.

[00:36:08] And it was so helpful that and then in the group and then joining leadership there and meeting all the other coaches.

[00:36:17] And all the different opportunities to learn and grow have helped me as well.

[00:36:23] And now I'm a coach and now I have my own podcast.

[00:36:27] So I'm helping men heal.

[00:36:30] And it's such a blessing to be able to do that.

[00:36:35] And I got this whole new journey because I was willing to face my pain.

[00:36:40] And yeah, you say hero's journey.

[00:36:43] I just saw there was a meme on one of those fan pages about hero's story and how all these famous superhero comic books, they have the the tragedy like Peter Parker's Uncle Ben or.

[00:36:59] Or.

[00:37:01] And they go.

[00:37:02] It was like person after person after person, all these of Batman losing his parents as a young boy, all these tragedies that they'd have to face.

[00:37:10] That made them have this pain, this trauma that they would have to overcome.

[00:37:16] And that led them to this hero's journey to be able to help rescue and save people because they had so much to overcome of their own.

[00:37:28] So, yeah.

[00:37:30] Yeah.

[00:37:31] I guess that makes me kind of.

[00:37:35] Do I dare I say hero?

[00:37:36] You can say it.

[00:37:38] I'll let you say it.

[00:37:41] If I did not believe that you were a hero, I wouldn't have invited you on here.

[00:37:47] And one of the things that you you mentioned here that I think is so powerful is you mentioned.

[00:37:55] And I love the.

[00:37:59] The wordplay of Mr. Rogers and Dr. Ruth coming together and being embodied in the person of Drew Boa from Husband Material.

[00:38:12] Yes.

[00:38:12] And how you needed someone like him.

[00:38:18] At that point in your journey.

[00:38:20] And one of the things that I've experienced is I have seen you turn around and be that same compassionate and candid coach for others who need it as well.

[00:38:36] And for me, that is that is truly stepping into your strength.

[00:38:43] That's stepping into your power.

[00:38:45] And that's something that makes you heroic.

[00:38:47] Perfect.

[00:38:49] Thank you.

[00:38:52] Yes.

[00:38:53] Thank you.

[00:38:56] And so you've had quite a journey, my friend.

[00:39:01] You've had quite a journey.

[00:39:03] I have been with you some of those times when you've had those unexpected triggers.

[00:39:08] Right.

[00:39:09] And I feel it's important because.

[00:39:14] Your your story is one of those that does have these dynamics specifically of the post traumatic stress disorder.

[00:39:24] Right.

[00:39:25] And how you can have flashbacks and things like that.

[00:39:29] That can just come out of nowhere.

[00:39:31] And it's almost like you find yourself completely out of control in a certain situation.

[00:39:39] And you're just your brain is going back to these old shutdown responses or your fear responses are kicking in.

[00:39:49] What would you say is some important tools to help people when they find themselves in such a dysregulated state?

[00:40:01] Ah, good question.

[00:40:04] I think for everyone, it's a little different having some kind of professional therapist where you can go through this with and know what to do when you're going through it.

[00:40:19] There's all kinds of different regulation countering dysregulation because that's what's happening to stay grounded and bring you back.

[00:40:30] Sometimes nothing helps.

[00:40:31] I know the retreat we went on.

[00:40:34] And yeah, I got triggered at dinner.

[00:40:36] Just too many voices in a very crowded room.

[00:40:39] And it sent me spiraling down.

[00:40:42] And.

[00:40:43] I didn't recognize that's a big thing.

[00:40:46] I didn't recognize I was getting triggered until well into the trigger.

[00:40:51] So this is like a couple hours into the trigger.

[00:40:54] I knew something weird was going on with my brain, but I didn't identify it as a trigger, a severe trigger until.

[00:41:02] Oh, wait, I'm being triggered.

[00:41:04] Why?

[00:41:05] Oh, it was the voices.

[00:41:06] Oh.

[00:41:08] And it was still another 24 hours before I was really starting to get out of it.

[00:41:13] And giving myself time.

[00:41:16] To go through it.

[00:41:20] And having people who knew me enough.

[00:41:23] They were able to talk to me about it and I was able to share where I was and be OK with it.

[00:41:29] Be OK with not being OK.

[00:41:30] Really interesting TV show my wife and I discovered recently.

[00:41:33] I actually, Laurie from No Longer Shame podcast talked about it on the podcast recently.

[00:41:39] Will Trent.

[00:41:40] And I had heard of it before.

[00:41:42] It's an ABC procedural.

[00:41:44] It's starting its third season, mid-season replacement.

[00:41:48] But it's on Hulu and Disney Plus if you have Hulu on that.

[00:41:53] And we just marathoned it.

[00:41:54] We're in the middle of the second season.

[00:41:55] But this guy, he grew up in the foster care system.

[00:41:59] He's now a detective with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

[00:42:04] He gets flashbacks from all this childhood trauma that he experienced being in the foster care system.

[00:42:11] And a home for orphans, a children's home, big in the South.

[00:42:18] And going through that.

[00:42:21] And so you have all these side stories of him dealing with his stuff on top of doing the murder of the week or whatever it is that he's trying to solve.

[00:42:31] And just fascinating him trying to navigate that because he'll be in the middle of investigating whatever it is.

[00:42:40] And his mind goes to this childhood trauma.

[00:42:46] And he'll have mysteries.

[00:42:48] He blocked out a memory and he started to get leaking memories coming through.

[00:42:52] And the whole half-a-season arc, him putting these pieces together while he was feeling that way.

[00:43:00] Yeah, that's a lot of my story has been too.

[00:43:04] You have to kind of sit with it and think about it and understand it and journal it and share it.

[00:43:11] But it's hard when you're going through it to be able to share.

[00:43:15] And it's been a struggle for him as well.

[00:43:19] And it can be a struggle for me.

[00:43:21] But I'm at a place, yeah, when those things happen, find someone who you can trust and you can share this with.

[00:43:27] And say, yeah, I'm having another episode.

[00:43:30] Yeah, and they can just sit with you.

[00:43:32] And sometimes the best thing is just having someone sit with you.

[00:43:37] New Facebook, TikTok thing, Rocky Kanata.

[00:43:43] I don't know if you've heard of him.

[00:43:44] He rescues dogs and helps with a shelter and does all these videos of him going into these newly found shelter dogs who are scared, traumatized.

[00:43:57] Families abandoned them, all these horrible things.

[00:44:00] And he tries to come along and help guide these little dogs out of trauma so they can get recovered enough so they can get adopted.

[00:44:13] And it's video after video of him talking to these dogs in this nice little quiet voice and trying to build trust, understanding.

[00:44:24] I listen to these videos.

[00:44:26] Oh, my little inner boy inside, it's like he's talking to me.

[00:44:31] And it's like, I know you've been through stuff and it's okay.

[00:44:34] But, you know, people here love you.

[00:44:37] And it's all these positive affirmations.

[00:44:39] That little wounded boy inside of me just eats it up.

[00:44:42] And I love listening to this guy.

[00:44:44] And he, like, picks up these wounded little dogs and puts them on his lap when they're ready for it.

[00:44:49] He builds up to that.

[00:44:51] But then it's like it's okay.

[00:44:53] And then they just kind of melt in his arms knowing that they're safe or at least safer than they were.

[00:45:05] And he builds that up.

[00:45:06] And it's just, wow.

[00:45:10] Yeah, that's how it feels.

[00:45:12] Just sitting with someone in their pain as they go through it and then calmly kind of guiding them through a little bit, helping them get through it.

[00:45:24] That's the best thing you can do.

[00:45:26] Absolutely.

[00:45:27] Find someone who can sit with you.

[00:45:28] So one of the things that I am hearing here is probably one of the worst things that we can do is try and jump in and fix the problem.

[00:45:39] Or even to tell someone, oh, just get over it.

[00:45:42] It's not that big of a deal.

[00:45:44] Right.

[00:45:45] Right.

[00:45:46] Yeah.

[00:45:46] It's the brain crying out for help.

[00:45:53] And it's also, it's like getting it out, like that pimple and all the pus coming out.

[00:46:01] It's processing this prior trauma and helping you get it out so you can process it.

[00:46:09] So hopefully whatever caused you to be triggered will be less triggering.

[00:46:13] Or you realize, oh, that's a huge trigger for me.

[00:46:18] I need to avoid those situations or figure out if I'm in that situation, how to lessen it.

[00:46:23] Was at a summer retreat, similar restaurant, though.

[00:46:29] We weren't up against a wall.

[00:46:31] The sound wasn't echoey.

[00:46:35] And huge high ceilings.

[00:46:37] And I wasn't triggered at all.

[00:46:39] And it's like, but I was looking.

[00:46:40] It's like, am I going to get triggered here?

[00:46:41] Okay.

[00:46:42] But we're not quite up against a wall.

[00:46:44] And yeah, everything was fine.

[00:46:47] But being aware.

[00:46:48] Okay.

[00:46:48] That can be a trigger for me.

[00:46:50] And learning what your triggers are so you can be prepared.

[00:46:54] And then usually it points to a pain, a pain that needs healing.

[00:46:58] Hey, take a look at this.

[00:46:59] You need healing from this.

[00:47:01] So yeah.

[00:47:03] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:47:05] Yeah.

[00:47:06] Those are all really good.

[00:47:08] Thank you so much for sharing that, Mike.

[00:47:11] Absolutely.

[00:47:12] Absolutely.

[00:47:13] I just, I hear a lot of wisdom from your own experiences and working through this to where,

[00:47:23] going back to the hero's journey, one of the things that I think a lot of people have glossed over a lot of times

[00:47:34] is the mentors that we find are those who have had experience as their own heroes.

[00:47:43] Right.

[00:47:44] And now I see you as the hero of your own story, becoming the mentor for some of these others to help them step into being the heroes of their own stories.

[00:47:56] That's incredible.

[00:47:59] That's incredible.

[00:47:59] And that's why I wanted to have you on here.

[00:48:01] Thank you.

[00:48:03] And for the Santa part of it, since it is nearing the holidays, yeah, how that came about.

[00:48:11] I did it once for family, for extended family when I was in college.

[00:48:15] And it's like, okay, that's really cool.

[00:48:17] I would really like to do that again.

[00:48:19] And then I hit 50.

[00:48:22] I started growing my beard out.

[00:48:24] Then a few years into that, we had double vision insurance.

[00:48:28] So between my wife's insurance and my insurance, and it's like, hey, I can get two pairs of glasses.

[00:48:34] Prescription.

[00:48:35] So let me get a new pair and see if there's any like old-fashioned-y wire room glasses that might look good in a future cosplay.

[00:48:47] And I got a second pair, put them away in my trunk of my car where they stayed for probably a good year and a half.

[00:48:56] My wife didn't even know they were there.

[00:48:58] I just, you know, just took those away.

[00:49:01] And then sure enough, as my beard grew out, I worked with deaf people as well.

[00:49:05] I'm a sign language interpreter, as you mentioned.

[00:49:07] A nonprofit in my area said, hey, we want to do a Signing Santa event, partnering with a local mall.

[00:49:12] Would you be willing to volunteer a couple hours to be our Santa?

[00:49:17] So I said, sure.

[00:49:19] I jumped at the chance.

[00:49:22] And it was with a local mall.

[00:49:23] This is 2019.

[00:49:25] Their photography company who does these events all over malls are all over the country.

[00:49:30] They sent me one of their.

[00:49:31] They got my measurements, and they got and ordered me the official Santa suit, which I got when I was there.

[00:49:36] Worked with the gal who styles my hair.

[00:49:39] We figured out what would work for a one day whitening because I was dying my hair.

[00:49:45] It was closer to your color than it is to my color now.

[00:49:49] So very brown.

[00:49:50] Most of it a little more artificial than real.

[00:49:56] But definitely not white, at least not a lot white.

[00:50:01] And we tried different things, and we found stuff that would work just for the day.

[00:50:04] And she said, if you do this full time, yeah, you'll want to bleach, and it will last the season.

[00:50:09] I grew up, it was more dirty blonde.

[00:50:11] So not huge dark hair.

[00:50:14] More of an Esau than a Jacob for Old Testament fans.

[00:50:17] Yeah.

[00:50:18] So yeah, this is 10 years of beard growth, as I mentioned before we started recording.

[00:50:22] Yeah, it would be an ordeal.

[00:50:23] But yeah, it would last me the season.

[00:50:25] And that's what I do.

[00:50:26] I bleach now twice a year to get it this color.

[00:50:31] And on video, I can, I don't know if you can see that.

[00:50:35] I'm taking my hat off.

[00:50:37] Sorry for those people on audio.

[00:50:39] But I have roots.

[00:50:39] Yes.

[00:50:40] And you can see the mustache as well that it's roots.

[00:50:43] So yeah, I'm due for bleaching here in a couple weeks as I start the season.

[00:50:50] And yeah, what happened was I did that one event, and then 2020 COVID hit.

[00:50:55] And the mall and the photography agency could not agree on COVID protocols.

[00:51:02] So they said, okay, we'll forget it.

[00:51:04] We'll hire our own Santa.

[00:51:05] They said, hey, remember that guy who was here for that signing Santa?

[00:51:07] He did a good job.

[00:51:09] Let's call him.

[00:51:10] See if he would be interested.

[00:51:11] And that was me.

[00:51:12] And yes, I was.

[00:51:14] So they let me know this is like in March or soon after, I guess, April when 2020 hit.

[00:51:20] I mean, April when COVID hit.

[00:51:25] And they called, absolutely.

[00:51:27] So I got online training because of the in-person training to close down.

[00:51:32] But that worked out perfect.

[00:51:34] And figured out the bleaching and so forth for that one day.

[00:51:38] But no, at this point, bleaching for the whole season.

[00:51:40] So I went back to my stylist, and we agreed, figured out, okay, this is what would work and how to make it work.

[00:51:52] So I took some trial and error, a little bit of learning curve.

[00:51:56] Yeah, I got myself bleached and got my own outfit and so forth and took it seriously.

[00:52:01] And I was there, Mall Santa, for three years.

[00:52:04] And in that time, I started doing private gigs as well and continued to do that while I was still working part-time.

[00:52:11] And it was such joy, especially during COVID.

[00:52:17] My whole mission was to make people smile.

[00:52:20] They decided to do, because we couldn't do Santa's knee taking pictures, that it had to be socially distanced.

[00:52:29] So I had to be as big as possible.

[00:52:32] And my goal was to spread joy to everyone, any passerby, even if they weren't stopping for a photo, just to talk to them, say hi, get a smile on their face.

[00:52:42] Because everyone was miserable that year because of COVID.

[00:52:46] So my mission was to spread joy.

[00:52:48] And I did that in spades.

[00:52:50] And I loved it.

[00:52:51] In doing so, it fed that little boy inside of me that didn't really have the best childhood, even though a lot of it was repressed.

[00:53:01] The bad stuff, it was a way to celebrate that little boy inside and being able to work with all those children, even from 12 feet away.

[00:53:11] For those first two years, now home visits and so forth, it's just been a joy, wonderful part of my journey to be that Santa Claus portrayal artist.

[00:53:23] And owning my craft and building my suit every year and going to different trainings for Santa's.

[00:53:31] And hanging out with other local Santas as well as we talk shop, as it were, the wonderful network.

[00:53:39] And we share jobs.

[00:53:40] Oh, I can't do this.

[00:53:40] Who wants it?

[00:53:41] Okay.

[00:53:42] Oh, you can do it?

[00:53:42] Okay, wonderful.

[00:53:43] Yeah, it's been wonderful as well to be in that world and to bring joy to children.

[00:53:50] The opposite of what my father did, but to give joy and to share joy and make this world a better place.

[00:54:00] And I have seen you when you're in your professional Santa mode.

[00:54:07] And I have to say, you make for a very compelling Santa Claus.

[00:54:14] And I will share here as well, for those of you who are seeing the video, I actually have three tokens.

[00:54:25] I was caught being good by Santa.

[00:54:28] And I keep them on, I just keep them here on my desk.

[00:54:35] And they're always there.

[00:54:36] And there is a part of me that absolutely loves just that kind of magic and that bringing joy.

[00:54:50] Because, okay, I have not admitted this to, I don't think I've admitted it to anyone.

[00:54:57] So, Mike, podcast listeners, you guys are the first ones that are going to hear this.

[00:55:03] We won't tell anyone.

[00:55:04] Yeah, we won't tell anyone.

[00:55:06] I'm just publishing it for the world to hear.

[00:55:08] But I still believed in Santa Claus up through most of middle school.

[00:55:17] And the reason why is because there was a part of me that really needed to have this embodiment of joy.

[00:55:30] For those of you who have listened to me telling my story,

[00:55:34] I had a lot of stuff going on that made it really hard for me to find joy.

[00:55:40] So hearing of you just intentionally wanting to bring joy during a very troubling year or two for a lot of people,

[00:55:49] that just, that makes me so happy.

[00:55:54] And I become filled with joy.

[00:55:57] Because the time that I knew that Santa Claus wasn't real,

[00:56:03] there was this one,

[00:56:04] I want to say it was like late middle school or late elementary, early middle school.

[00:56:12] At church, at the Methodist church that I attended,

[00:56:17] we were given reindeer food.

[00:56:22] And it was just, it was just like craft herpes.

[00:56:27] It was glitter and all sorts of other stuff that was just in a bag.

[00:56:32] And so we were told to go out and put it in snow.

[00:56:37] And it was one of the rare years where we actually did get snow here.

[00:56:42] And I remember going out with my brothers and we were sprinkling it all over the place.

[00:56:48] And it was,

[00:56:49] we were told if you sprinkle this on the snow,

[00:56:52] you will see hoof prints in the snow the following morning.

[00:56:57] And I got up the next morning and I went outside and there were hoof prints in the snow.

[00:57:05] And I was like,

[00:57:05] it was like so cool to see that.

[00:57:09] And every single time,

[00:57:10] every single time I doubted that Santa Claus was,

[00:57:14] was real.

[00:57:16] I always remembered that.

[00:57:18] And then it wasn't until several years later,

[00:57:22] I think probably when I was in high school that I heard my mom say,

[00:57:27] oh yeah,

[00:57:28] I remember that one year where we had to go out in the middle of the night and put these stupid hoof prints in the snow after you guys put that.

[00:57:37] And that's when it all came crashing down on me.

[00:57:39] And I'm like,

[00:57:41] Oh,

[00:57:43] right.

[00:57:44] But that joy.

[00:57:48] Yes.

[00:57:49] That's so,

[00:57:50] that's so powerful.

[00:57:52] Joy is powerful.

[00:57:53] And I love that you bring that to so many people.

[00:57:57] Absolutely.

[00:57:57] On season and off.

[00:57:59] On season and off.

[00:58:01] Do you still do like the virtual Santa visits?

[00:58:04] Yes.

[00:58:05] My Santa websites on the show notes,

[00:58:09] santamikeenc.com,

[00:58:10] which stands for Eastern North Carolina.

[00:58:11] I do in person along Eastern North Carolina,

[00:58:14] but I do video visits,

[00:58:17] virtual visits,

[00:58:18] and cameo style greetings.

[00:58:20] So I can do a customized little video greeting,

[00:58:23] pre-recorded that you can send to someone.

[00:58:25] Do that anywhere.

[00:58:25] We can do it like we are now on Zoom.

[00:58:27] And I've got a lovely,

[00:58:28] like you've got Northern Lights background.

[00:58:30] I've got nice Santa workshops,

[00:58:32] backgrounds that we can pop in.

[00:58:34] And what's great about video visits and in-person visits,

[00:58:38] if we plan ahead for like home visits,

[00:58:40] I can send a questionnaire and get all the scoop on what little Johnny did this year.

[00:58:47] And then I show up and I'll know his teacher's name.

[00:58:49] I know the fact that he's been feeding his dog Rover every,

[00:58:52] every day and being responsible for that.

[00:58:56] And the parents are so proud of them and all those wonderful things.

[00:59:00] Oops,

[00:59:01] Santa!

[00:59:04] All this wonderful thing that you can do with the admin of technology.

[00:59:09] And it makes those visits really fun and really special and really great.

[00:59:17] And I've got all kinds of different things we can use to make the visit joyful.

[00:59:22] But,

[00:59:22] you know,

[00:59:22] my favorite thing of Santa visits,

[00:59:25] even when it's a huge photography line,

[00:59:29] and whatever I can do to ask open-ended questions,

[00:59:32] to get the child to talk,

[00:59:34] to know that in this little photo area,

[00:59:37] that child is the most important person,

[00:59:40] not me.

[00:59:42] And what they have to say is so important that I'm going to take time to listen to them

[00:59:47] talk and share,

[00:59:49] because a lot of times they don't get that experience.

[00:59:53] So to help them realize that what they have to say is important,

[00:59:59] because they are important,

[01:00:02] is huge.

[01:00:04] And...

[01:00:04] That's incredible.

[01:00:06] So that's great joy if I can get them to talk and share about whatever.

[01:00:14] And that's...

[01:00:15] That's...

[01:00:17] One of my favorite parts of the job,

[01:00:20] for sure.

[01:00:21] That is awesome.

[01:00:24] I...

[01:00:25] You are a hero as Santa Claus,

[01:00:27] as you are as Mike Chapman.

[01:00:30] That is...

[01:00:30] Oh,

[01:00:31] this has been such a delight.

[01:00:33] So...

[01:00:33] Thank you.

[01:00:33] Thank you so much for joining me

[01:00:37] and being able to share

[01:00:39] how you have had these horrific adversities in your life.

[01:00:46] And we're seeing how you are taking those

[01:00:51] and turning them around.

[01:00:55] And you, Mike,

[01:00:57] you legit are the hero of your story.

[01:01:00] And it's so awesome to have you be my...

[01:01:03] The first one that I interviewed to share your story.

[01:01:07] I am so honored.

[01:01:09] Thank you so much for inviting me, Marcus.

[01:01:12] Awesome.

[01:01:13] So we'll see who the next hero is going to be.

[01:01:16] And if you want to get in touch with Mike,

[01:01:20] I don't know if he's going to be all that free

[01:01:24] since this is coming out in early December,

[01:01:27] but you can have ways of...

[01:01:28] If you want to have the whole Santa experience

[01:01:32] virtually or in person,

[01:01:34] if you're nearby in North Carolina,

[01:01:37] you can maybe plan

[01:01:39] and get in touch with him next year.

[01:01:41] Or maybe he's got some openings

[01:01:43] to do a little virtual hangout.

[01:01:48] I actually have a lot more holes

[01:01:49] because we just moved this past year.

[01:01:51] So all my clientele that I built up

[01:01:53] over the last few years,

[01:01:54] I moved away from them.

[01:01:55] And they're having to find new Santas

[01:01:57] and I'm having to find new gigs.

[01:01:59] So yes, I've got quite a few holes in my schedule.

[01:02:03] So yes, even if you're far away,

[01:02:05] we can work out video visits for sure.

[01:02:07] I think on my website,

[01:02:08] I show...

[01:02:09] I got it pulled up.

[01:02:10] How to do it?

[01:02:11] Because I think I do those from a company.

[01:02:14] I haven't changed that yet.

[01:02:16] Yes, I subcontract with the company now.

[01:02:18] And you can contact me for all that.

[01:02:20] And you can specifically request me through that

[01:02:23] because they do a beautiful job

[01:02:24] if you get this wonderful video.

[01:02:26] And all I have to do is show up,

[01:02:28] which is wonderful.

[01:02:30] Awesome.

[01:02:32] There's the Santa laugh.

[01:02:33] We haven't had that yet on this episode.

[01:02:37] And so...

[01:02:37] There you go.

[01:02:37] So if you want to get in touch with him,

[01:02:41] to have a compassionate voice

[01:02:44] who is willing to help you get into your story.

[01:02:48] If anything that Mike shared with you

[01:02:50] has resonated with you,

[01:02:53] then contact information is down below.

[01:02:56] You're able to get in touch with him.

[01:02:58] Or if you want to go more of these Santa visit,

[01:03:02] you can find that information down below.

[01:03:05] Mike is an awesome guy.

[01:03:07] And you will be...

[01:03:09] As you would say,

[01:03:10] you will be blessed.

[01:03:11] You will be elated

[01:03:13] for taking the time

[01:03:16] to experience Mike Chapman.

[01:03:19] So thank you so much again for being here, Mike.

[01:03:22] Thank you.

[01:03:23] It was great to see you.

[01:03:24] It was great to talk with you.

[01:03:26] Absolutely, my brother.

[01:03:28] And until next time,

[01:03:31] live strong for today.

[01:03:35] If you would like to learn more about my coaching

[01:03:37] with Polar Live Consulting,

[01:03:39] where I provide one-on-one coaching

[01:03:41] and group coaching,

[01:03:42] both with a focus on healing for male survivors,

[01:03:46] reach out to me at polarliveconsulting.com.

[01:03:49] That is polar spelled P-O-L-A-R.

[01:03:53] I would love to hear from you.

[01:03:55] I want to hear your story.

[01:03:56] If you would like your story featured on this podcast,

[01:03:59] contact me via my website.

[01:04:02] If you like this podcast,

[01:04:03] please rate and review

[01:04:04] because that's how other people can find me.

[01:04:07] And I really want to spread this message

[01:04:09] of healing and hope to others.

[01:04:10] And remember,

[01:04:12] you are not alone.

[01:04:13] Healing is possible

[01:04:15] and the abuse was not your fault.

[01:04:18] Let me repeat that.

[01:04:19] The abuse was not your fault.

[01:04:23] See you next time

[01:04:24] on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.