52 - Panel: PTSD

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] And welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is Mike Chapman, your host. And with me today, we have a panel discussion. Today we're talking about PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. And with me is Dan Carlson and Luke Wiersma, who have been in podcasts before.

[00:00:54] And we also have our live audience as well. So, reminder to the audience, feel free to be as anonymous as you want. Just type a message or question into chat. If you want to include your name, we will only read out your name if you actually include it with each comment or question.

[00:01:16] To start it out, I'm going to pull up this definition on PTSD from the internet. It says,

[00:01:24] Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms can vary from person to person, but they don't typically depend on gender or sex. So males and females would have similar symptoms.

[00:01:36] Some common symptoms include flashbacks, which are unpleasant experiences that can make someone feel like they're reliving the trauma.

[00:01:44] Flashbacks can be triggered by people, places, or situations, or they can happen randomly. They can last from seconds to days.

[00:01:55] Nightmares, unwanted memories of the trauma.

[00:01:58] Avoidance, staying away from people or situations that remind someone of the trauma.

[00:02:05] This can include avoiding people in general, which can lead to feelings of isolation and detachment.

[00:02:11] Heightened reactions, having strong negative reactions to things like loud noises or accidental touches.

[00:02:20] Arousal and reactivity, feeling tense, on edge, or easily startled.

[00:02:26] People with PTSD may also have difficulty concentrating or sleeping, and may experience irritability or angry outbursts.

[00:02:36] Emotions. People with PTSD may experience emotions like sadness, fear, or anger, or they may feel detached from others.

[00:02:46] They may also experience overwhelming guilt or shame.

[00:02:51] Other symptoms include seeing images of the trauma, noticing sounds, smells, or tastes associated with the trauma,

[00:03:00] feeling physical sensations like pain or pressure, engaging in risky or destructive behavior,

[00:03:08] and a medical professional can diagnose and treat PTSD with psychotherapy and or medications.

[00:03:18] I know for me, when I started my heavy recovery journey in 2019, researched being a survivor,

[00:03:27] and so many guys, and actually on the website, male survivor on their forum, said,

[00:03:32] yeah, you know, you probably have PTSD, and you can see a therapist, and they can diagnose you,

[00:03:40] and also treat you, but you probably want to find a therapist who specializes in PTSD.

[00:03:46] PTSD. And so, okay, I took their word for it and researched it and went online, found a list of symptoms of PTSD.

[00:03:56] I'm looking at every single one, and it's like, okay, that's me, that's me, that's me.

[00:04:01] And going through those symptoms kind of described my whole personality.

[00:04:05] It was eye-opening and also terrifying, because if that described most of my personality traits,

[00:04:15] if I got healing from this thing, what's left?

[00:04:19] Who is the real Mike?

[00:04:21] And that was scary, realizing, oh, okay, my personality is a list of symptoms.

[00:04:29] Yeah, so I'm pretty messed up, to be honest, going through that and then getting help.

[00:04:35] And now I'm becoming new Mike without a lot of the PTSD.

[00:04:41] I still have issues, still get triggered, and you've heard me tell different stories about being triggered even very recently.

[00:04:49] And that's okay, but it's easier, it's better.

[00:04:53] And yeah, we'll talk about this.

[00:04:55] Luke and Dan, your own experiences with PTSD?

[00:04:58] PTSD, who'd like to share?

[00:05:00] When did you realize that you had PTSD?

[00:05:04] And what was that journey like for you?

[00:05:07] Dan, do you want to start?

[00:05:08] I found out mid-September 2019 myself that PTSD was my experience, and in fact, complex PTSD.

[00:05:18] And I've been through a lot of counseling in the past, even starting as a teenager.

[00:05:24] Not too many people that would be classified as therapists, mostly counseling-type people.

[00:05:29] But in 2019, I found out I was having a huge internal crisis.

[00:05:34] I was really feeling detached from my actions.

[00:05:38] I was feeling like there was somebody else running the show for me.

[00:05:42] My apparent goals and ambitions and feelings and desires seemed to take a backseat to something else.

[00:05:49] I was speaking to my pastor at a church I'd been going to for a couple of years at that point.

[00:05:56] And we were standing in the back.

[00:05:58] And of course, as everybody that's associated with me at one time or another in Tucson, Arizona,

[00:06:05] I'd already worked on this particular pastor's air conditioner at his house two times.

[00:06:09] So in those times, he had been talking to me while I was working and asking me stuff.

[00:06:14] And I didn't really process the conversation because I was focused on my diagnostics and repairs.

[00:06:20] So I was unguarded, I guess, in what I told him.

[00:06:24] So I come to him this Sunday after the service, and we're standing in the back.

[00:06:28] And I said, I feel like I'm at war with my subconscious.

[00:06:32] And I'm trying to figure out how my subconscious and I can get on the same page.

[00:06:37] I said, I've been doing all kinds of stuff, researching all kinds of things.

[00:06:42] One thing I've found that's helpful is binaural beats, which is music that puts your brain in a certain frequency.

[00:06:49] Right.

[00:06:50] And then it has different sounds in each ear.

[00:06:52] So the right, left, right, left, right, left.

[00:06:54] Well, it's a tone.

[00:06:56] It's a tone that has a certain frequency that's being played under whatever else is going on in the music.

[00:07:05] Okay.

[00:07:05] And your brain will try to equalize to the space between two frequencies.

[00:07:11] So that's how you do that.

[00:07:13] So I was talking to him, and I'm like, I'm trying to figure this out.

[00:07:16] I'm trying to get in touch with my subconscious.

[00:07:18] And he said, Dan, you and I have had three conversations now.

[00:07:22] And I'm just going to tell you something.

[00:07:24] He says, you're going to have to take my word for it.

[00:07:26] Because I've been doing this a long time, pastoring and counseling and stuff.

[00:07:31] And I said, okay.

[00:07:32] And he said, you need to find a therapist who specializes in trauma.

[00:07:36] And I looked at him, and I totally detached when he said that.

[00:07:40] So I was just like, these words were just sort of echoing in an empty place.

[00:07:45] So I questioned him, like, what?

[00:07:48] But at the same moment that he said it, I started crying.

[00:07:51] And I didn't stop crying for, like, four hours.

[00:07:55] And all he had said was suggest to me that I was a victim of trauma.

[00:07:59] And something inside me just, like, went, yeah, okay, we're here.

[00:08:04] We're doing this now.

[00:08:06] And I was, you know, 57 years old at the time.

[00:08:09] I don't know how I missed it.

[00:08:11] I asked my counselor that I'd had in high school and later.

[00:08:15] I said, Randy, because he goes to our church, the church I'm going to now.

[00:08:19] And I said, Randy, you were dealing with me all those years ago.

[00:08:23] I said, how come we never discussed trauma?

[00:08:25] And he said, because we've only really known about it for 20 years.

[00:08:29] And I was seeing you 40 years ago.

[00:08:31] And I'm like, good point.

[00:08:33] So this is, you know, this whole thing of, like, being able to actually expose this stuff

[00:08:38] and talk about it like we're doing right now is a fairly recent development.

[00:08:44] Right.

[00:08:44] In social discourse.

[00:08:46] You know what I'm saying?

[00:08:47] Right, exactly.

[00:08:48] I know.

[00:08:49] Back in the day, I think when the wars were happening, they called it being shell-shocked.

[00:08:55] Yeah, they had different names.

[00:08:57] Right, right.

[00:08:59] And it's really been, as far as treatments, really in the last decade, that they've actually

[00:09:05] been able to treat it with things like NDR and other treatments that go beyond just

[00:09:12] talk therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, that kind of thing.

[00:09:17] That get into the deeper centers of the brain where the trauma is stored and being able

[00:09:26] to access this and help it heal.

[00:09:29] So there's hope and there's healing.

[00:09:32] But so much of it is new.

[00:09:35] So much of it is new.

[00:09:35] Just in the last 10 years, all this research is coming out.

[00:09:37] And there's a lot more out there than there was 20 years ago, 30 years ago.

[00:09:46] For sure.

[00:09:47] For sure.

[00:09:48] So that's not completely the whole story, though.

[00:09:51] So I'm standing there talking to him.

[00:09:53] Now I'm crying and he's explaining to me that he knows somebody he can refer me to.

[00:09:58] And in fact, they don't work for the church, but the office and the church offices.

[00:10:01] So the next week I started seeing this lady who was herself had been trafficked by her father.

[00:10:08] That's how she got into this field of endeavor, like so many of us.

[00:10:11] Right.

[00:10:12] Right.

[00:10:12] But at any rate, he's explaining this to me.

[00:10:15] I'm crying.

[00:10:16] And my parents go to the same church with us again now.

[00:10:20] And my mother happened to be walking by and she overheard whatever Pastor Mark was saying.

[00:10:25] And she just stopped and she goes, oh, Danny, you need to tell him about the time that you got beat so bad you needed first aid.

[00:10:33] And I looked at her.

[00:10:34] I was like, you mean when I was like six?

[00:10:36] And she says, no, when you were 11 months.

[00:10:39] And it didn't even really register on me then.

[00:10:42] Like I said, I was already dissociated, detached.

[00:10:44] I was reeling inside.

[00:10:46] But there was a part of me that was very much resonating with what the pastor was saying.

[00:10:50] So it wasn't until two sessions in, two weekly sessions into my discourse with this new therapist lady that that thing that my mom had said came into my mind again.

[00:11:01] And I said it to her.

[00:11:03] And she just like kind of fell apart for me.

[00:11:07] She was like, oh, my gosh, Danny.

[00:11:09] She goes, you realize, of course, this wasn't your fault.

[00:11:12] And how many times in my life have I heard that?

[00:11:15] Many, many times.

[00:11:16] Right.

[00:11:17] But I believe that I could, you know,

[00:11:19] I said it to other people with conviction about their own situation.

[00:11:23] But there was a part of me that never could buy that it wasn't my fault.

[00:11:27] Until then, when I found out that at 11 months, I was being disciplined to the extreme of what any age child would be disciplined to.

[00:11:37] Right.

[00:11:38] And I was 11 months.

[00:11:39] I had no, I wasn't a thinking person yet for the most part.

[00:11:43] And maybe, you know, I had some rudimentary form of thought, but it wasn't refined at all.

[00:11:48] I had no context for any of that.

[00:11:51] And then I had to ask myself, what could I, what could an 11 month old baby boy do that would warrant that kind of treatment from his parents?

[00:11:59] Wow.

[00:11:59] And I had to conclude that there was none.

[00:12:02] There was not a single shred of possibility that what happened to me was my fault.

[00:12:08] Right.

[00:12:08] So I finally believed it.

[00:12:09] Wow.

[00:12:10] I finally believed it.

[00:12:11] And it tore my whole world wide open.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:14] You had mentioned complex PTSD, which we hadn't described.

[00:12:18] I pulled up a similar definition for that.

[00:12:21] Complex post-traumatic stress disorder, CPTSD, is a condition that includes most of the core symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, as well as additional symptoms.

[00:12:33] It doesn't really describe how it's different.

[00:12:37] But for complex PTSD, it's for ongoing trauma, where PTSD, it's like one or several traumatic events.

[00:12:50] Complex post-traumatic stress is when it's again and again over long periods of time.

[00:12:55] For those of us who experience childhood abuse in childhood.

[00:13:01] And that having that exposure to trauma over a long period of time, it makes the brain think that the trauma is still going on even when the trauma stops.

[00:13:12] You're still having that fight or flight or freeze response.

[00:13:16] All those brain chemicals, that cortisol, all that stuff pumping through your system, even when the trauma stops.

[00:13:22] Because your brain stops learning to turn it off because it happened so long over a long period of time.

[00:13:30] Additional symptoms.

[00:13:31] It lists emotional difficulties.

[00:13:34] Difficulty controlling emotions.

[00:13:36] Rage, depression, panic, and affective dysregulation.

[00:13:40] Behavioral difficulties.

[00:13:43] Impulsivity, aggressiveness, sexual acting out, alcohol or drug misuse, and self-destructive behavior.

[00:13:50] Cognitive difficulties.

[00:13:52] Dissociation and pathological changes in personal identity.

[00:13:57] Interpersonal difficulties.

[00:13:59] Chaotic personal relationships.

[00:14:02] Avoidance of friendships and relationships.

[00:14:05] And difficulty feeling connected with other people.

[00:14:08] And somatization.

[00:14:10] So body experiences.

[00:14:12] Unexplained upset stomach.

[00:14:14] Unexplained headaches.

[00:14:16] And chronic health conditions.

[00:14:18] Other symptoms of CPTSD include flashbacks.

[00:14:23] Hyper vigilance, which is what I was alluding to earlier.

[00:14:27] Frequent negative thoughts and emotions.

[00:14:29] Negative sense of self, including feelings of shame, guilt, failure, and worthlessness.

[00:14:35] Memory lapses.

[00:14:36] A big one for a lot of us survivors.

[00:14:38] Distorted sense of self.

[00:14:42] Depersonalization and derealization.

[00:14:45] Negative self-perception and thoughts of suicide.

[00:14:49] Some strategies that may help include finding support, like here.

[00:14:55] Practicing mindfulness.

[00:14:57] Writing in a journal.

[00:14:58] Let me go to Luke.

[00:15:00] Luke, would you like to respond now?

[00:15:03] How do you?

[00:15:04] Yeah.

[00:15:06] What does PTSD mean for you?

[00:15:09] I mean, like all those things, actually.

[00:15:13] I had an inkling, I guess.

[00:15:16] So I was in college studying psychology.

[00:15:19] And when they started talking about PTSD, I recognized that in myself.

[00:15:26] A lot of it.

[00:15:28] I had already, by this point, attempted suicide four times.

[00:15:33] I was misusing drugs and alcohol way beyond even what I would have thought I was.

[00:15:42] I mean, to the point, I was going into the worst parts of Chicago to get my drugs.

[00:15:48] Like the projects.

[00:15:50] I was a mess.

[00:15:53] Avoiding the place that I was sexually assaulted at.

[00:15:57] The park that it happened at.

[00:16:00] Avoiding any place, any parks that reminded me of it.

[00:16:04] Drinking a lot.

[00:16:06] I have multiple mental health issues as a result of what happened.

[00:16:13] But I never thought PTSD.

[00:16:15] It wasn't until I went into prison, actually, that I was actually diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder by a psychologist and mayor.

[00:16:24] Right.

[00:16:24] And when I got out was when I decided I needed to.

[00:16:28] I knew I had to get help for it.

[00:16:32] I'm still new to the therapy as far as what I, all of it.

[00:16:37] Right now, we're just doing talk therapy.

[00:16:39] Just working through some of the smaller issues.

[00:16:44] So we haven't even started EMDR yet.

[00:16:47] I have, like I said, multiple, multiple mental health issues.

[00:16:53] One of them is social anxiety disorder.

[00:16:56] I would say the biggest thing for me was the fact that I had attempted suicide four times.

[00:17:04] That was a pretty big indication as well as fireworks trigger me.

[00:17:10] Oh, right.

[00:17:10] Yeah.

[00:17:11] How did you do?

[00:17:12] We're recording this just after the 4th of July.

[00:17:15] How was that for you?

[00:17:17] This 4th of July was hard.

[00:17:19] Luckily, my fiance was able.

[00:17:22] I'm blessed to have her.

[00:17:23] She was able to talk me through it.

[00:17:25] We had talked a little bit about PTSD and she asked, how can I help?

[00:17:32] So I sent her a bunch of information.

[00:17:35] Right.

[00:17:35] She used that as a guide.

[00:17:37] Right.

[00:17:38] She talked me through it, you know, reminded me to breathe, telling me that she was there for me, that she loves me, reminding me to do grounding.

[00:17:49] But it was beyond difficult.

[00:17:52] It was a rough 4th.

[00:17:55] And then even after the 4th ending, it lasted for two days.

[00:18:02] Right.

[00:18:03] Wow.

[00:18:04] Yeah.

[00:18:04] And because it hit on a Thursday this year, you had some stuff Wednesday night, you had some stuff Thursday night, and then it kind of went on Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

[00:18:14] I'm in a military town, and yeah, it was constant.

[00:18:19] We had several nights of it.

[00:18:21] Thankfully, my dog is very hard of hearing, so he could care less about it.

[00:18:26] But yeah, it did get pretty loud, but we're also near a military base, and we're constantly hearing bombs going off and so forth as they practice with their munitions and so forth.

[00:18:38] So we're getting a little bit more immune to it.

[00:18:40] But I know, first of all, commend you, Luke, for being proactive, knowing, okay, this is stuff that's triggering me.

[00:18:49] Okay, I'm going to find someone who, when I'm experiencing this, can help me through it, to support me through it, and being honest and open.

[00:18:58] That's a huge part.

[00:19:01] Whoever that is, if it's your significant other, your girlfriend, whatever, or a friend, a therapist, I've got several people I will call.

[00:19:10] Yeah, if I get severely triggered.

[00:19:13] That's very key.

[00:19:14] I know my wife, not a sex abuse survivor, but she's had a lot of trauma growing up.

[00:19:19] And sound of ambulance silence, even if it's police or anything, especially if we're in a car driving by.

[00:19:26] That just totally freaks her out, and I can see it on her, and I'll do what I can, hold her hand through it.

[00:19:35] But communicating that, and knowing that this is what she's dealing with, I know, I hear it, I know it's coming, and yeah, I can talk her through it.

[00:19:48] And it sounds like you've got someone who does that with you, and that's so key.

[00:19:53] Luke, that's excellent.

[00:19:54] And we've got one person in the chat room, one of our participants, and I think they're a bit of an expert on some of this stuff.

[00:20:05] Yeah, mentioned that, yeah, there's lots of different psychological disorders that occur with PTSD.

[00:20:12] Mentioned specifically, it's a fight between the amygdala, part of the brain, and the frontal cortices.

[00:20:20] Thank you.

[00:20:20] So, with the CPTSD, I know that's often from childhood, and like I said, it's the repeated traumas and so forth.

[00:20:31] So, last time we had a panel, we talked about triggers.

[00:20:36] Now, so I won't go into triggers today.

[00:20:39] What about flashbacks?

[00:20:41] Have you experienced flashbacks?

[00:20:44] And when you do, what do you do to address those?

[00:20:49] I know, for me, especially once the trafficking abuse started getting uncovered, and a lot of the other abuses were getting uncovered,

[00:21:03] that's when the floodgates opened, and I started to get more and more of the flashbacks coming out.

[00:21:16] And reenacting so many of the traumas, specifically with being trafficked, and basically re-experiencing it as if I was there as a little six, seven-year-old,

[00:21:33] having adult men do their thing with me, and reenacting those things.

[00:21:40] It's like veterans in foxholes.

[00:21:44] You know, even though they're in their home, or something sets them off, like Fourth of July fireworks,

[00:21:49] and they're boom right there in that foxhole.

[00:21:51] Even though they're not in their brain, they are.

[00:21:55] And it's so hard to break out of that.

[00:21:58] It's almost like, I call it just riding the wave.

[00:22:02] That when it happens to me, it's like, I know, I know it's here.

[00:22:06] So it's like, I'm experiencing it, but then I also know it's a flashback that I'm experiencing, but I can't stop it.

[00:22:14] I just have to ride it through until it comes to its conclusion, whatever that is.

[00:22:21] And then I can snap out of it.

[00:22:23] And thankfully, I don't have those anymore, because I've worked through so much of this stuff now.

[00:22:28] What about you guys?

[00:22:29] Dan, what do you do when you have flashbacks, or do you have flashbacks?

[00:22:33] That's a complicated thing for me, because as I've said in some other communications that you've probably been privy to,

[00:22:41] like I have a fantasia, which means that I don't think or dream even really in images.

[00:22:48] It's more language-based.

[00:22:50] And you've said that before, yes.

[00:22:52] And what's really weird about it is that I can remember it being different.

[00:22:57] So something's changed in me.

[00:22:59] Like I've muted the image, like I've made it so I can't think in images.

[00:23:04] Like I can unlock it and open it up, and I can do it.

[00:23:07] Because I can see little flashes, but I can't focus on them, you know?

[00:23:11] So what I experienced that I would call in terms of flashback is just my total body state that happens when something triggers me.

[00:23:22] And I can feel all these ways that I'm bracing myself and dreading and looking for a way out and all this kind of stuff.

[00:23:32] So not flashbacks per se, and not even taking me to a specific thing, just basically a scenario in descriptive words, you know?

[00:23:42] Right.

[00:23:43] So it's a frustration to me because, you know, a lot of your memories wrapped up in images, and I don't have that.

[00:23:50] Right.

[00:23:50] So it's hard to access a lot of my childhood.

[00:23:54] Right.

[00:23:54] So do you have anything for flashbacks, or do you experience anything similar?

[00:24:02] What do you experience?

[00:24:03] Well, I mean, I'm just basically dealing with, you know, doing some of the, like Luke was saying, grounding and 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, belly breathing.

[00:24:15] Right.

[00:24:16] What do they call it?

[00:24:17] A tubed breathing or something like that?

[00:24:19] Box breathing is what.

[00:24:20] Box breathing.

[00:24:21] Yeah.

[00:24:21] Box breathing.

[00:24:22] Yeah.

[00:24:22] Take it in, hold it, let it out, hold it.

[00:24:25] Right.

[00:24:25] Take it in, hold it, let it out, hold it.

[00:24:28] And also I try to repeat, I try to have kind of, you may notice when I write and when I'm processing that I repeat a lot of the same things about my relationship with God and who he is to me and stuff like that.

[00:24:42] Because I ingrained that language in myself by speaking it out.

[00:24:47] It's available to me when I'm in a trigger state and I'm not really able to access a lot of myself.

[00:24:52] I can see that.

[00:24:54] I can say that.

[00:24:55] I can, you know, it's like muscle memory.

[00:24:58] I can say those things.

[00:25:00] Right.

[00:25:00] Does that make sense?

[00:25:01] Yes.

[00:25:02] Yes, very much.

[00:25:04] Yeah.

[00:25:04] Thank you, Dan.

[00:25:05] Luke, what do you do when you experience flashbacks?

[00:25:12] So the last one was on 4th of July.

[00:25:16] Right.

[00:25:17] You know, when I have flashbacks, it's like quick.

[00:25:21] It's not even like, some people think of flashback, it's like they think you're there and you're stuck there, you know.

[00:25:30] Mine are just real quick pictures almost like a photograph of the banging sound.

[00:25:38] It's the, that's the biggest trigger for me.

[00:25:41] So that trigger brings the flashback on.

[00:25:45] And like I say, it's just a quick picture.

[00:25:47] And then I go into right away, the grounding, box breathing.

[00:25:53] My fiance was able to remind me, you know, I'm there.

[00:25:59] I'm right next to you.

[00:26:01] I'm holding your hand.

[00:26:03] And I would repeat that to her as well.

[00:26:07] Like I'm right, you're right next to me.

[00:26:09] You're holding my hand.

[00:26:11] I'm okay.

[00:26:12] And that helped me get through the flashbacks.

[00:26:17] Right.

[00:26:17] There's a new one a mentor sent me.

[00:26:20] So it's a breathing technique by Wim Hof that is on YouTube.

[00:26:26] It's a mini class.

[00:26:27] I haven't actually checked it out yet.

[00:26:30] So I can't really describe it.

[00:26:33] But if you look him off, W-I-M Hof, H-O-F.

[00:26:39] It's supposed to be better than box breathing.

[00:26:42] So I'm going to try it.

[00:26:43] There are a lot of breathing techniques out there and find what works for you.

[00:26:47] There's lots out there.

[00:26:48] I know there's all kinds of yoga things.

[00:26:51] And I know spiritually there's a lot of controversy if you are a believer, whether or not you do yoga and that kind of thing.

[00:27:01] No Christians who've gotten a lot of benefit from yoga because of the breathing and control as well.

[00:27:08] Also, I believe the carpenter mentioned martial arts because it's so much in body control.

[00:27:15] And I think that helps with the healing because during the abuse, we were not in control of our body.

[00:27:23] And mind.

[00:27:24] Right.

[00:27:24] Exactly.

[00:27:25] And that gives you the control and the movements where you have much more control and power.

[00:27:32] And somehow that helps with the healing.

[00:27:36] So I've lived into it.

[00:27:38] And I would also say my reliance on God as well.

[00:27:44] Right.

[00:27:45] Right.

[00:27:46] And that's the main thing.

[00:27:48] You know, knowing that God is in control of everything and that this is just a moment.

[00:27:55] Right.

[00:27:56] That God's in control of it.

[00:27:58] And I, that I can get through this and, you know, just putting my faith in God.

[00:28:04] Right.

[00:28:04] Anything else?

[00:28:06] Any other questions from the participants?

[00:28:10] I know we've got the same one from earlier.

[00:28:15] We've come to understand that a victim of childhood sexual abuse finds coercion, deception, excuses, double or floating or moving standards, mystification, low self-esteem, and self-medicating to be natural aspects of the world.

[00:28:30] Without these dysfunctional features in their life, they would not have been able to survive for as long as they have.

[00:28:37] And it affects their quality of life and relationships.

[00:28:41] Victims and survivors are left to live a life of perpetual fear that their constricted worldview can be torn down at any moment.

[00:28:50] And thus they must forever be on guard against any who attempt to encourage them to question the fallacies of their childhood.

[00:28:59] Trust and truth for them is and always will remain a convoluted concept that must never allow for the facts and reality or reason to exist.

[00:29:12] Thank you for that.

[00:29:13] And anything else you want to add or any closing thoughts on this?

[00:29:19] You know, I do.

[00:29:20] I would say I do find it interesting.

[00:29:24] So it wasn't until I started therapy that like my connection at least with my connection with my fiancee really got my connection with any female was really was never really strong until I started therapy.

[00:29:41] And now after therapy, of course, it is.

[00:29:45] It was always this convoluted or not even I don't know if it would be convoluted, but this thinking of they're out to screw me.

[00:29:55] And that's and I'm just a sex object to them.

[00:29:58] And I think that was based on the fact that it was a woman that abused me.

[00:30:05] Right.

[00:30:06] Of course.

[00:30:07] You know, therapy is such a strong and amazing thing.

[00:30:14] I just can never would never would have thought my life would have been as good as it is now compared to what it was a year or two after the abuse happened.

[00:30:26] Right.

[00:30:26] So I would say if you're struggling with this, get therapy for sure.

[00:30:33] Well, it's therapy.

[00:30:34] There's support groups out there.

[00:30:37] CSA is out there for people.

[00:30:39] Survivors of childhood sexual abuse.

[00:30:41] Yes.

[00:30:42] Yeah.

[00:30:43] And I will have their group information in the show notes as well.

[00:30:46] And then male survivor, which I mentioned, is out there.

[00:30:50] And then we've got our own support groups within the husband material community that I'm involved with, as is Dan.

[00:30:56] Those links will be in the show notes as well.

[00:30:58] But yes, there's lots of support groups out there for men.

[00:31:01] They're a little harder to find.

[00:31:03] A lot more resources for women.

[00:31:06] But they are out there.

[00:31:08] Yeah.

[00:31:09] It helps to talk to other survivors and realize that we're not alone in this.

[00:31:17] We're not crazy that this is normal, natural response to the trauma that we experience.

[00:31:25] This is how God designed our brains.

[00:31:29] When really bad stuff happens, it's like a fail-safe system.

[00:31:34] Yes, another person said fellowship is the best medicine.

[00:31:37] And yeah, that's true that most recovery groups will say that healing happens in community.

[00:31:46] And that's so true.

[00:31:48] So find your community where you can find that healing, whether it's with one of our groups we mentioned or other groups as well.

[00:31:58] Having that shared experience is so key.

[00:32:03] Dan, anything to add?

[00:32:05] Hey, I'm really glad I got to hang out with you, Luke, over this period of time.

[00:32:10] This is the only place that you and I know each other, but it's encouraging to hear your story.

[00:32:16] And I'm glad to be here with you.

[00:32:18] You too, Mike.

[00:32:19] But I already tell you that all the time.

[00:32:20] Yeah.

[00:32:23] But at any rate, yeah, the CPTSD, it has an institutional feel where there's no escape.

[00:32:30] You're stuck in the situation.

[00:32:32] You're stuck with the players.

[00:32:33] You're stuck with.

[00:32:34] They get to do whatever they want.

[00:32:35] And you have to learn how to cope with it.

[00:32:38] That's, I think, at the very core, other than the actual trauma of abuse, the very core of what CPTSD does to me is leave me in a place where you have to conform.

[00:32:50] And oftentimes what conformity involves is not just conforming externally, but being able to at least fake that you're conforming internally.

[00:33:01] Right.

[00:33:01] So I spent a lot of my life, you know, not feeling the ways that my dad thought was appropriate, but trying to make myself feel that way.

[00:33:10] Right.

[00:33:11] If that makes any sense.

[00:33:12] Yeah.

[00:33:12] Yeah, completely.

[00:33:13] And I know as I've gotten therapy, as I found different communities to be a part of, all those things have helped in my healing.

[00:33:26] So the PTSD is not as severe, but it got worse before it got better.

[00:33:34] A quote I heard recently, I don't remember who said it, but follow your pain to find your healing.

[00:33:41] And by confronting the pain, facing it head on, not numbing it, not shoving it down, not ignoring it, but facing it and dealing with it head on with support groups and therapists and whatever you need to do.

[00:34:00] And just educating yourself on different techniques, different calming techniques, different centering techniques, like Luke was mentioning with the different breathing techniques.

[00:34:10] All of those things will help you in your healing process.

[00:34:18] And with that, thank you so much for being here, my loyal listener.

[00:34:23] And we will see you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.

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