51 - Live Interview with Iain Bryson

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] And welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is Mike Chapman with Polar Life Consulting and thank you for joining me. And we are here live if you would like to join us on future podcasts, feel free to do so and you can learn more about how to do that on the website polarlifeconsulting.com slash live and I'll tell you how to sign up for that.

[00:00:55] And with me today is Ian Bryson and that's the Scottish spelling spelled I-A-I-N but still pronounced Ian. He is 47 and lives in Connecticut with his wife and their two cats.

[00:01:11] And part of his story is back in 2010, his wife at the time had abducted their daughter and disappeared. And in May of 2024, this year, he published an evidence-based documentary memoir exposing the group that took his daughter as well as how they did it and what has happened since then.

[00:01:40] Ian was also sexually abused by a 12-year-old girl when he was only seven, though he blocked out the memory of the abuse until his 30s.

[00:01:49] He grew up in a Christian home and gave his life to Christ in the eighth grade at church youth camp.

[00:01:55] And then entered his teenage years, drifted away from his faith and got into atheism, humanism and drug experimentation.

[00:02:05] He received a master's at University of Connecticut in 03 and met his wife in 04.

[00:02:12] And that changed the course of his life.

[00:02:15] He ended up moving to the Netherlands with that wife and their one-year-old daughter.

[00:02:20] And that soon led to the daughter being abducted to Poland three years later.

[00:02:26] And that's when Ian realized that God was his only hope.

[00:02:32] But before relying on him completely, he decided to take matters into his own hands and ended up 50 months in jail in Poland.

[00:02:43] And today his work is centered on exposing the darkness and advocating for survivors.

[00:02:49] And welcome, Ian Bryson.

[00:02:53] And we start each episode when we have a guest with four questions.

[00:03:00] Now it's time for four questions, that part of the podcast, when we get to know our guest a bit better by asking a few questions.

[00:03:07] Let's go.

[00:03:08] So, Ian, what is your favorite food memory?

[00:03:14] So, in 1995, which was my first year of college, I was living in the dorms.

[00:03:19] And this isn't a favorite food memory that I'm proud of, but I just think it's interesting.

[00:03:26] We, a bunch of us, about 10 of us, got a credit card number from a frat inductee on our floor.

[00:03:34] And we all memorized it.

[00:03:36] I still know the card number today.

[00:03:38] And we ordered free pizza.

[00:03:41] And it wasn't free.

[00:03:42] It was free for us.

[00:03:43] We ordered pizza and calzones, like, several times a week.

[00:03:48] And everyone was doing it.

[00:03:50] And we never got in trouble because the guy's parents didn't care and probably assumed that he needed to buy into the frat.

[00:03:59] And so, I just remember just getting these pizzas and feeling like bandits and filling up and just having that option available and deciding who was going to go sign for it.

[00:04:14] That's a good answer.

[00:04:16] Right.

[00:04:17] And did you at least try to match the name and just sign that name that was on the card?

[00:04:22] So, we just, no, we just scribbled the name down.

[00:04:27] You could choose any expiration date you wanted to as long as it was in the future.

[00:04:32] Oh, okay.

[00:04:35] Wow.

[00:04:36] Wow.

[00:04:37] So, what is your favorite Christmas or holiday memory?

[00:04:43] So, Christmas 2010 was the last Christmas before my reality was shattered.

[00:04:50] Right.

[00:04:52] Pretty much now I don't celebrate Christmas in the same way.

[00:04:56] It's more solemn and serious.

[00:04:59] Right.

[00:04:59] So, Christmas 2010, I remember I went out to the store.

[00:05:02] I was in the Netherlands.

[00:05:03] I went to the store to get a Christmas tree.

[00:05:05] And I bought a big potted tree.

[00:05:08] And I carried it back home a couple blocks.

[00:05:11] And it was really heavy.

[00:05:12] And I'm bugging it up the Dutch staircase.

[00:05:15] And my daughter came down with this huge smile on her face and said, is that for me?

[00:05:20] And just, I remember her smile and her excitement.

[00:05:25] And so, we set it up and decorated it together.

[00:05:28] And then in the morning, Christmas morning, we opened all of her presents that had them scattered on the floor.

[00:05:35] And just played with puzzles and different things all day long.

[00:05:38] And I bought her a worm farm, which is kind of like an ant farm, except it's worms.

[00:05:43] So, we went across the street.

[00:05:45] And, you know, there was snow on the ground.

[00:05:47] And I took her little sand tools from the beach.

[00:05:51] And we dug up and found worms that were in hibernation.

[00:05:56] And put them in her worm farm.

[00:05:58] And they didn't last very long, but it was fun.

[00:06:03] Wow.

[00:06:04] Wow.

[00:06:05] Yeah, I'm sure that was a very special memory.

[00:06:08] Yeah.

[00:06:09] Yes.

[00:06:10] What is your favorite church or house of worship memory?

[00:06:14] So, in eighth grade, I went to a church youth camp.

[00:06:18] And it was an overnight camp.

[00:06:20] So, I was away from my parents.

[00:06:22] And because it was away from my parents, I think I was able to have a personal experience with God.

[00:06:29] Right.

[00:06:30] That I didn't have to then download to them when it was finished.

[00:06:35] Right.

[00:06:35] Before then, it was like my parents believe and I have to go.

[00:06:39] So, I go.

[00:06:40] But I didn't really know why.

[00:06:42] And at this camp, I felt the Holy Spirit.

[00:06:46] And I decided to get baptized on my own.

[00:06:49] And it was a life-changing event.

[00:06:53] It was a memory that stuck with me.

[00:06:55] And when I returned home, I was elated.

[00:06:58] I wanted more of that.

[00:07:02] Right.

[00:07:02] I wanted more of that.

[00:07:03] But I drifted away because I was back in reality again.

[00:07:07] Right.

[00:07:08] Right.

[00:07:08] Right.

[00:07:09] Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:07:11] So, what is your favorite scripture or any inspirational quote that has helped you on your spiritual journey?

[00:07:17] And what about it speaks to you?

[00:07:21] So, there's a lot of scriptures I could have chosen.

[00:07:24] But I chose Romans 8.28.

[00:07:28] And we know.

[00:07:30] And I like the and we know.

[00:07:32] It's just there's no doubting.

[00:07:34] There's no gray.

[00:07:36] We know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose.

[00:07:43] And it's just it's a certainty.

[00:07:46] It's like I know that I love God and I work on drawing closer to God every day.

[00:07:52] But I also know that I'm called according to his purpose because I hate child abuse.

[00:07:58] And I know God hates child abuse.

[00:08:00] So, I don't know what the details of that lead to.

[00:08:03] And I don't think I'm supposed to.

[00:08:04] But I just believe that things do work out.

[00:08:08] And that God has a plan through all of the things that I've seen.

[00:08:12] And so, it's a peace and a certainty and a purpose.

[00:08:17] And I just know that I'm working on the winning team.

[00:08:21] Right.

[00:08:21] Right.

[00:08:22] Yeah.

[00:08:23] That's nice.

[00:08:24] So, now, if you would tell us about your story.

[00:08:27] And I know a lot of people, including myself, it's not always A to Z that our stories sometimes bounce around because of when things get uncovered.

[00:08:39] So, start what you'd like.

[00:08:41] And let us know how things went.

[00:08:46] And then, also, for your own healing, what things have helped you?

[00:08:54] What things have you tried and not worked in your healing journey?

[00:08:58] And then, what you are doing today?

[00:09:02] Okay.

[00:09:03] So, I was born in Oregon in 1977 to two hippie parents.

[00:09:08] And they lived in a school bus.

[00:09:11] They were planting trees.

[00:09:13] I was the firstborn of three children.

[00:09:15] So, I have a brother and a sister.

[00:09:17] And we moved around a lot.

[00:09:19] Because after they were done planting trees, my dad became like a builder, fixing houses and things like that.

[00:09:26] And eventually building houses.

[00:09:27] My brother and sister were born in Oklahoma.

[00:09:31] And my first memories are from Connecticut.

[00:09:33] And I remember going to church.

[00:09:36] And I remember school.

[00:09:37] But I remember being spanked and having my mouth washed out with soap.

[00:09:42] And that there's a specific time with that where I was getting spanked by my dad.

[00:09:48] And my dad saying, I'm doing this because I love you.

[00:09:51] And I spoke to him in like a more mature voice than I should have.

[00:09:56] I don't remember how old I was exactly.

[00:09:57] But I said, Dad, this is wrong.

[00:09:59] And I'm going to change this.

[00:10:01] And he said, I know.

[00:10:03] You know, that stuck with me for the entirety of my life.

[00:10:09] But it also, it led to me, to my abuse.

[00:10:15] Because how that happened, when I was seven years old, we lived next to a 12-year-old girl.

[00:10:22] And I said the derogatory word for poop when we were playing wiffle ball.

[00:10:28] And so she said, if you don't do what I say, then I'm going to tell your mom that you said that.

[00:10:36] And I didn't know what she was going to have me do.

[00:10:39] And I had no understanding of sexual abuse at the time.

[00:10:42] So I was more afraid of my mom and whatever that would happen with that.

[00:10:47] So it started with her bringing me into the woods, telling me to pull down my pants.

[00:10:54] And her just looking at me.

[00:10:56] And then she had me lay under a blanket with her and touch her.

[00:11:01] And she touched me.

[00:11:02] And I remember just laying there under the blanket.

[00:11:07] I have vivid memories of this.

[00:11:09] And all of my senses.

[00:11:12] And just like where my head was at.

[00:11:15] I was just like in a daze, unable to think, just frozen.

[00:11:19] And then I went into my house, into my mom's kitchen.

[00:11:22] And I tried to communicate to her what had happened.

[00:11:26] But I didn't have the words.

[00:11:27] And she was dealing with whatever she was dealing with in her head.

[00:11:30] So it just got brushed aside.

[00:11:32] Then the next time, she brought me out into the woods with a friend and had me pull down my pants.

[00:11:37] And I ran from her.

[00:11:39] And I ran terrified.

[00:11:42] I tripped on a rock and broke my collarbone.

[00:11:46] So I had to go to the emergency room and, you know, get an injection in my collarbone and wear a harness for a couple months.

[00:11:55] And still, nobody.

[00:11:57] They said, oh, he did it running from a girl.

[00:11:59] And that was like, so I was just all alone in this experience.

[00:12:06] With no one to talk to about it or process it.

[00:12:11] And, you know, I didn't know what was going on.

[00:12:15] I still had no idea what was going on.

[00:12:17] But I remember drawing on her house with my crayons and markers right by her bedroom window, which was on the bottom floor.

[00:12:26] And then I had to clean it off and I got in trouble for that.

[00:12:30] Well, what did you write?

[00:12:31] Just scribbles.

[00:12:33] Oh, okay.

[00:12:34] Just scribbles.

[00:12:35] Just like a...

[00:12:36] I forgot about that entire thing until I was 33.

[00:12:41] And my daughter was scribbling on her walls.

[00:12:44] Oh, wow.

[00:12:46] And so when my daughter was scribbling on her walls, I would just repaint and repaint.

[00:12:51] And so, you know, please don't do that and repaint.

[00:12:53] And I was remembering my abuse at that time.

[00:12:56] And I was like, wow.

[00:12:57] Like, that was just gone.

[00:12:59] And now it's back.

[00:13:01] And I remember confronting my mother and saying, well, you know, mom, this happened.

[00:13:07] And I kind of felt betrayed.

[00:13:11] And like, I didn't, you know, now I'm 33.

[00:13:14] And she just like didn't want to speak about it.

[00:13:16] Turned her head.

[00:13:17] Didn't want to be like accused of being a bad parent, which is not what I was doing.

[00:13:21] Right.

[00:13:22] But so after that, when I was seven in elementary school, then I remember getting kicked off the bus for fighting.

[00:13:30] I remember just like putting nails under the bus tires.

[00:13:34] Oh, wow.

[00:13:35] Yeah.

[00:13:36] I was acting out.

[00:13:38] Right.

[00:13:38] Yeah.

[00:13:38] It didn't make any sense until later when I started thinking about it.

[00:13:44] But I told the paper boy who was riding his bike, I said, you're going to bring a paper back for me tomorrow or I'm going to hit you with this rock.

[00:13:53] And he didn't bring a paper back.

[00:13:55] So I hit him in the head with a rock.

[00:13:58] And, you know, I just was I just kind of went off the rails, like crying, crying for help.

[00:14:03] But I did.

[00:14:04] I didn't know why.

[00:14:05] Like the memory of the abuse.

[00:14:09] I don't think it was there at the time.

[00:14:11] It was just like a frustration and an anger.

[00:14:13] Right.

[00:14:14] And then, like, I remember the time in the future past that where my dad took me up the stairs to wash my mouth out with soap.

[00:14:23] And, you know, you just like a bitterness.

[00:14:26] Like what?

[00:14:27] Why don't adults know how to communicate?

[00:14:30] And, you know, just knowing something was wrong, but not having the ability to comprehend it.

[00:14:36] So, yeah, just absolutely total amnesia until age 33 of that.

[00:14:41] And so we stayed in Connecticut for a while.

[00:14:46] And then then we moved back to Oregon and we lived on a big ranch in Oregon.

[00:14:50] I rode horses and age 12.

[00:14:54] I was state champion and hunter pleasure.

[00:14:57] And horses are amazing.

[00:14:59] You know, like just the relationship you can have with a horse is very special.

[00:15:03] I went to private Christian schools and then I went to a Catholic high school for ninth grade.

[00:15:08] And everything was normal at that point.

[00:15:12] But then we moved back to Connecticut again for 10th grade.

[00:15:16] And basically I became a weekend alcoholic.

[00:15:21] Right.

[00:15:21] Just drinking until I puked, driving drunk at least once per week.

[00:15:28] And somehow maybe the guardian angels were taking care of me that my mom said I had.

[00:15:33] Right.

[00:15:34] I had my first girlfriend in 10th grade and we were together for seven years.

[00:15:38] And like I just I totally lost direction.

[00:15:43] I was having sex with my girlfriend and just drinking.

[00:15:48] And I did well in school like that.

[00:15:50] I was able to still do good in school.

[00:15:53] I was I was in the National Honor Society.

[00:15:55] I was on like the editor of the sports paper.

[00:15:58] But I didn't I didn't know what the heck I was doing at that point.

[00:16:02] And we weren't going to church.

[00:16:03] So I just just totally dripped it away and was aimless and just kind of being being a kid in crazy land.

[00:16:10] Right.

[00:16:11] After high school, I went to the University of Connecticut in 1995.

[00:16:16] And I didn't know what I was going to do.

[00:16:18] I ended up failing out my first year.

[00:16:20] My parents got divorced that year when I was 18.

[00:16:23] And I just wanted to take bong hits and funnel beers and not walk to class.

[00:16:30] So I felt I failed out.

[00:16:32] And then I went, spoke to the university and they let me back in the next year.

[00:16:36] And I just made a decision that if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do my best.

[00:16:39] And so I did well in college.

[00:16:42] I stayed in college and got my master's degree.

[00:16:45] I thought I was going to go to law school and I didn't know why.

[00:16:49] I just thought like that's that's a place where I can help people.

[00:16:53] But a professor in grad school dissuaded me from going to law school and saying it's not what I think it is.

[00:16:59] It's about billable hours and all of that.

[00:17:03] So I put it on hold and traveled to Australia.

[00:17:06] And then when I came back, I met I met my first wife.

[00:17:09] She was over from Poland on a three month visa.

[00:17:12] And now Polish people don't need visas to come to the United States.

[00:17:17] But then they did.

[00:17:18] And she was with her boyfriend and another another Polish girl.

[00:17:23] And just like immediately when I saw her, I knew that she was going to be my wife.

[00:17:29] And I don't really understand that.

[00:17:32] I think it was a God thing or and she seduced me.

[00:17:36] But I am I immediately suspected that she had been abused.

[00:17:40] And like I have my journals back from this was 2004.

[00:17:44] I was writing maybe borderline personality disorder, incest and trying to figure out what could be going on with her.

[00:17:53] And interesting that you did that.

[00:17:54] Right.

[00:17:55] All the while you had blocked out your own abuse.

[00:17:58] Yeah.

[00:17:59] Interesting.

[00:18:00] So I had it.

[00:18:02] I think that my interest in abuse just kept going subconsciously.

[00:18:08] Right.

[00:18:09] Right.

[00:18:10] Even like a couple of years later, I got a job for the Department of Children, Children and Families as a social worker, child protection, child protection officer.

[00:18:19] And I like I I didn't know what I was doing, but just like when I was picking things, that was the direction I was going.

[00:18:26] So when I picked that job, when I picked this wife, just very, very interesting how that works or work.

[00:18:33] Yeah.

[00:18:33] Yeah.

[00:18:34] Your subconscious definitely sounds like it later on in some of these choices because you need to work on this stuff so we can find healing.

[00:18:43] Yeah.

[00:18:44] That's that's kind of common.

[00:18:45] And it'll kind of guide you in that direction to get you to the point where, OK, now we can deal with this stuff.

[00:18:52] So, yeah.

[00:18:54] Mm hmm.

[00:18:55] But so I was seeing it in my in my first wife, but I.

[00:18:58] Right.

[00:18:59] I didn't I didn't think at all about my own abuse when we had a daughter a few years after getting married, a couple of years after getting married.

[00:19:07] Right.

[00:19:08] The idea of her being abused was impossible to me.

[00:19:11] Like it was just.

[00:19:13] Right.

[00:19:13] You know, like that that is not going to happen under my watch.

[00:19:17] You know, I have a hold of what's going on and no way.

[00:19:21] But I went back to Poland with her to to get a fiance visa because she had to return.

[00:19:27] Mm hmm.

[00:19:28] And like her her dad was strange.

[00:19:31] She's an alcoholic.

[00:19:33] And I chalked it up to just him being Polish and the cultural differences.

[00:19:37] But he would say he would say to me through her because she was the only one in the family that spoke English.

[00:19:43] I like I like young boobies or how was she in bed?

[00:19:47] Mm hmm.

[00:19:48] And my wife would say things like when when I'm in Poland, I'm not with you.

[00:19:53] I'm with my dad.

[00:19:54] So we came back and got married and and then we lived in Connecticut and until our daughter was born.

[00:20:01] And then she wanted to move to Poland or to Europe to be closer to her family in Poland.

[00:20:07] And she convinced me of that because this was 2008 and the euro was worth twice the dollar.

[00:20:14] Right.

[00:20:15] Or my degree is political science.

[00:20:18] So I thought I could get a job in one of the courts in The Hague.

[00:20:21] And I just wanted to make her happy.

[00:20:24] Like she things with her were so up and down.

[00:20:26] I wanted to make her happy.

[00:20:27] So we moved to the Netherlands.

[00:20:29] Mm hmm.

[00:20:29] And that's when I started noticing my daughter coming back with signs of abuse from Poland.

[00:20:35] Wow.

[00:20:36] But like she would come back with bruises and vaginal pain and talking about her grandfather's private parts.

[00:20:44] Wow.

[00:20:45] And I had a blockage.

[00:20:46] Yeah, I had a complete blockage.

[00:20:48] And part of it was because my my wife was right there seeing all of this and she was the one taking her to Poland.

[00:20:55] So to me, that was impossible because I had made a decision to trust my wife.

[00:21:01] Right.

[00:21:01] Um, and and also I think just my my own abuse just just blocked that out.

[00:21:09] Like I.

[00:21:10] Right.

[00:21:11] That's.

[00:21:13] Several books I've read have said, you know, when you are abused, then it creates a blockage and you can't see it really anywhere.

[00:21:20] Right.

[00:21:20] Um, so even with my wife, she like I was still talking to her about incest here and there, but it never clicked and never sunk in like, oh yeah, that that has to be what it is.

[00:21:33] Mm hmm.

[00:21:33] Um, and my, my wife would go one day from I love you.

[00:21:39] You're my world.

[00:21:40] And the next day I hate you.

[00:21:42] At this point I was, I was taking morphine for, for neck issues that I have.

[00:21:48] And I was taking Klonopin for anxiety.

[00:21:51] I had, I was diagnosed with panic disorder.

[00:21:54] Just, I went down that road for probably 10 years altogether and just kept upping the dosages.

[00:22:03] I would snort pills sometimes and just, just trying to, trying to maintain peace within myself with, with these substances.

[00:22:11] But they don't, they don't work very well after a while.

[00:22:14] And when they do work, they just knock you out.

[00:22:17] Right.

[00:22:18] A question about neck pain.

[00:22:20] Was that related to that broken shoulder incident or do you think it was related or?

[00:22:27] So it, I think it's part of it.

[00:22:29] Um, I, I don't really, I have, I have cervical stenosis and they call it discogenic disease.

[00:22:35] So there's, there's like a, there's several problems in my neck and some of it is, is due to the collarbone.

[00:22:43] I believe because, um, the one side hangs lower than the other side.

[00:22:47] Right.

[00:22:47] So I'm not, I'm not balanced out.

[00:22:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:51] But it's, it's just like one of those.

[00:22:52] Yeah.

[00:22:53] I think the injury, the injury doesn't, didn't help.

[00:22:57] And I don't even know how I landed.

[00:23:00] Right.

[00:23:00] The fact that it was tied to the abuse.

[00:23:05] And it sounds like it got aggravated with all these other abuse related things going on.

[00:23:10] And that same spot.

[00:23:13] And oftentimes, yeah, our bodies, it's almost like a cry for help.

[00:23:17] It's like, no, remember this or this thing going on in my, in your neck.

[00:23:21] Remember that?

[00:23:22] Yeah.

[00:23:22] I've had similar issues where, yeah.

[00:23:24] All kinds of different body pains.

[00:23:26] And it's just like my body telling me about the abuse and so forth.

[00:23:32] So yeah, our bodies are very unique and yeah, can communicate to us in different ways.

[00:23:40] And I think, yeah.

[00:23:41] Yeah.

[00:23:42] And I latched onto it too.

[00:23:44] Like I, like I still, I haven't had surgery.

[00:23:47] I don't do anything and I don't, I have some pain, but I don't, I don't think about it every day.

[00:23:53] Right.

[00:23:54] Um, but for, for that period of time, especially after I met my first wife, it was like this huge looming problem all the time.

[00:24:03] Right.

[00:24:03] What, what do I do about it?

[00:24:05] How do I, how do I get this medication to help with it?

[00:24:07] And yeah, so I, I think you're right that, that our bodies are trying to tell us something and my body was screaming out in its own particular way.

[00:24:17] Right.

[00:24:18] And of course I focused on it incorrectly.

[00:24:21] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:22] Yeah.

[00:24:22] Yeah.

[00:24:23] And learning to listen to our bodies when they're trying to talk to us and going, okay, wait, what's going on?

[00:24:31] Why am I feeling this pain?

[00:24:34] And what is my body trying to tell me?

[00:24:36] And especially as you start the healing process, yeah, your body's going to talk to you and tell you things and you got to learn to listen.

[00:24:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:45] And it's hard because, yeah, we're not used to listening to our bodies in that way.

[00:24:51] But yeah, the body keeps the score.

[00:24:54] Yeah.

[00:24:55] The whole book on, on body trauma and body memories and, you know, muscle memories and all of that.

[00:25:02] Yeah.

[00:25:32] And so like, I was kind of fascinated by that.

[00:25:36] And, and also dealing with so much in my house that I didn't, I didn't really have time to think about its effects on me.

[00:25:50] Hmm.

[00:25:52] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:53] And, and didn't, didn't realize that that, that was necessarily going to still be affecting me in, in my, my pain, for example, or in my relationship with my wife, my, my sexual life, all of those things.

[00:26:07] It's going to have some kind of effect on.

[00:26:09] Right.

[00:26:10] For sure.

[00:26:11] Yeah.

[00:26:12] My, my daughter, my daughter kept going to Poland and coming back with signs of abuse.

[00:26:16] And I just kept, kept blocking it out.

[00:26:20] And she would do things like spill the milk multiple times during dinner.

[00:26:25] I would just clean it up.

[00:26:27] Just try, try to have no reaction.

[00:26:30] She would take the potted plants and spill it over our couches and I would just vacuum it up.

[00:26:34] And eventually both, both my first wife and I got into counseling and I was, I was diagnosed with ADHD at that time.

[00:26:43] And, and what I, what I believe that was, was the result of trauma.

[00:26:49] And the ADHD medication did help to focus me.

[00:26:54] I, like I could, I couldn't read a book at this time.

[00:26:57] It was my mind, my mind just could not focus on anything.

[00:27:01] And once I was diagnosed with that, then the medication made it so that I was like, wow, I remember now what it's like to have a mind.

[00:27:10] And, and I got back to, I got back to researching and writing and stuff like that.

[00:27:15] And my first wife went to counseling saying, you know, we think it might be borderline personality disorder, but it just, it wasn't enough.

[00:27:24] And right.

[00:27:26] Right.

[00:27:26] A lot of the trauma and the PTSD associated with abuse, even if it's like a one or two time event with you or a lifetime with your first wife, that PTSD often will show up and be misdiagnosed as bipolar or ADHD.

[00:27:48] And there's an attention part of PTSD.

[00:27:52] It goes with hypervigilance that your brain is wired to keep you safe.

[00:27:59] And so while it's trying to keep you safe, you're not able to attend.

[00:28:04] You're not able to focus.

[00:28:05] You're not able to read because your body's trying to keep you safe.

[00:28:10] And I know I was on ADHD medicine for a time as an adult.

[00:28:15] And yeah, it kind of had the effect of speed, which is what it's not supposed to have.

[00:28:20] If you really have ADHD, it's supposed to have the opposite effect.

[00:28:24] And yeah, I got a lot of work done, but it was B because I was like, Hey, I can get all this stuff done.

[00:28:31] And I'm just like, yeah, he basically forces you into this manic state where you get all kinds of things done.

[00:28:37] And my wife loved it.

[00:28:38] I got all kinds of chores done and it was wonderful.

[00:28:41] But yeah, it was not healthy at all.

[00:28:46] Yeah, I was a mess on that stuff.

[00:28:49] Now I understand why, because I really don't have ADHD.

[00:28:53] I do have attention issues.

[00:28:55] And now I've gotten a lot of help with the PTSD.

[00:28:58] Yeah, so often it gets misdiagnosed because therapists don't understand trauma.

[00:29:03] I mean, mostly like in the last 10 years, they've done tons of research on it just in the last 10 years.

[00:29:09] And the clinicians really do understand it now.

[00:29:13] But for a long time, they had no clue.

[00:29:15] So it always appeared as something else.

[00:29:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:19] And I also got diagnosed with major depression.

[00:29:23] Right.

[00:29:23] I mentioned panic disorder, but it got to the point where I would go out to go to work and get on the tram and just freak out and run back home as quickly as I could.

[00:29:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:30:05] It got to be easier.

[00:30:06] I knew it wasn't, but it gets so painful in those situations that I didn't know what to do.

[00:30:13] Right.

[00:30:14] So I took Klonopin for a while and I took an antidepressant for a while.

[00:30:20] And just like, you know, I eventually realized that it wasn't, I didn't have any of those things.

[00:30:27] I didn't have ADHD, depression, or panic disorder.

[00:30:31] These were all environmental causes that were creating these things.

[00:30:37] Right.

[00:30:38] And I felt, I would feel like, I would tiptoe around my house walking, like feeling like I'm walking on eggshells and I was afraid of my first wife.

[00:30:46] And just, it was, it was miserable for a little while when, when she was in that mode.

[00:30:53] And then when she was in the other mode, it was like, I felt like I had the best family in the world.

[00:31:00] Hmm.

[00:31:00] And, and just that she was, she was the happiest woman in the world or the most miserable.

[00:31:07] Wow.

[00:31:08] Yeah.

[00:31:08] Eventually we decided after three years in the Netherlands that we were going to move back to the United States because I wanted support around me.

[00:31:16] I wanted to live in a country where I understood how things worked and our daughter was getting older to where I wanted to like put her in a school that I could trust.

[00:31:26] Right.

[00:31:27] The Netherlands is a nice country and it's one, I think it's easy for an American to live in.

[00:31:34] But it's also like, you just don't know how things work like you do where you're from.

[00:31:40] Right.

[00:31:41] So I went back to the U S for three months and worked and looked for a place to us, for us to live.

[00:31:46] And I sent my first wife and daughter back to Poland for those three months, which was one of the dumbest things I could have done.

[00:31:53] But I just, I didn't understand trauma.

[00:31:55] And I just, I thought that, well, she's happy now.

[00:31:58] She's, she's, we're amazing.

[00:32:00] And so whatever that was, was healed in her and it can't happen again.

[00:32:06] But after three months, we met back at our home in the Hague in within 10 minutes of walking in the door.

[00:32:12] I knew it was back.

[00:32:14] She was back to saying, I hate you.

[00:32:16] And she told me that she was going to take our daughter to Poland.

[00:32:20] And that she, she told me over the course of the next three weeks, her family's a cult and she's going to, she has Stockholm syndrome.

[00:32:27] And, and I just said, you know, you're, you're crazy that we need to get help.

[00:32:34] She wouldn't get help.

[00:32:35] And yeah.

[00:32:36] So two days after Christmas, after the three weeks of me trying to convince her to get help, she convinced me she was taking our daughter to the library down the street to see a friend.

[00:32:46] And I gave my daughter a hug and never saw her again.

[00:32:50] Wow.

[00:32:51] And I sprinted to the police department as soon as I realized that what she had been telling me for those three weeks was happening.

[00:32:59] The Dutch police department didn't even take a formal report.

[00:33:03] I just begged them to stop my, my wife and daughter from leaving the country because I knew they were going back to Poland.

[00:33:11] They wouldn't help me.

[00:33:12] They wouldn't give me the time of day.

[00:33:14] So I called the U S embassy next because our daughter was born in Connecticut.

[00:33:18] The U S embassy told me it was out of their jurisdiction and recommended that I re abduct my daughter, which was crazy because how would that look taking a, a almost four year old from an adult.

[00:33:31] And like, so that it just felt like I was in the twilight zone, but that was the best, best advice I got.

[00:33:39] Um, and no, but nobody was helping me in the whole world.

[00:33:43] Um, I wrote to everybody.

[00:33:46] I wrote, I even wrote to president Obama.

[00:33:48] Um, you know, not that he breaches emails, but I wrote to everybody I could find.

[00:33:54] I filed paperwork for a parental child abduction.

[00:33:58] And they told me that it could take up to two years to get this back into court.

[00:34:02] And so like, then I tried to get help for four months and after nobody helped me decided that I had to do something as a dad, um, that I couldn't, I couldn't wait any longer.

[00:34:13] I had, I had tried everything that I could think of.

[00:34:17] And so I was back in Connecticut.

[00:34:20] I went back to Connecticut from the Netherlands for four months.

[00:34:23] And I said, all right, I'm going to Poland and I'm going to force them to listen to me.

[00:34:28] And I don't know exactly what I'm going to do.

[00:34:30] And I just kind of just, I just started the process of going to Poland and what I, what eventually happened just kind of played out with, without me really making any conscious decision of what I was going to do.

[00:34:45] I thought maybe I would, I would do the reabduction of my daughter and get her to the embassy.

[00:34:50] But the closest embassy was in Berlin, Germany.

[00:34:53] And that would have been like an hour drive.

[00:34:56] So I just, I said, I can't, I can't get a four-year-old into a car and drive her an hour across the international border.

[00:35:04] So I ended up deciding I was just going to beat up my father-in-law when he came out to throw his beer cans away.

[00:35:09] Cause I knew he would do that every day.

[00:35:12] And, and that's what I did.

[00:35:14] In broad daylight, I chased him down the street and beat him up.

[00:35:17] And I wasn't angry.

[00:35:20] I just, I just wanted attention.

[00:35:21] And, and I, I punched him several times and then felt like, all right, I did what I had to do.

[00:35:28] Now they're going to listen to me.

[00:35:29] But of course that was a bad decision.

[00:35:31] And they didn't listen to me.

[00:35:33] They, I was put in a Polish jail for 11 months before, before I even saw a lawyer.

[00:35:42] And at 23 hour per day, lockdown, five minutes of hot water per week.

[00:35:47] No, no, nobody spoke English.

[00:35:50] And the U S embassy came and visited me and they brought me a used pencil and a bag of candy and a new Testament, which I already have a new Testament.

[00:36:00] Cause I brought one.

[00:36:02] And, and then it was me against my first wife's whole Polish family.

[00:36:08] And my, my parents even ended up testifying on their behalf.

[00:36:12] Cause they thought what I did was crazy and nobody evaluated my daughter.

[00:36:17] And that's all I wanted was a child abuse investigation.

[00:36:21] And so, so they had me evaluated by a court psychiatrist and the court psychiatrist looked in the file and said, all right, there's, there's no abuse in, in saying there's a child abuse.

[00:36:32] And we don't, we don't see any abuse, but of course they didn't evaluate.

[00:36:36] So of course they're not going to see abuse.

[00:36:38] So they diagnosed me with delusional disorder, which all it takes for that is there's no evidence and no one else believes what, what you're saying.

[00:36:48] So I, I, I asked the court, I said, if I wasn't saying my daughter's being abused, what could you still diagnose me with this?

[00:36:55] And they said, no, but the logic of the matter didn't, it didn't matter what, what that should be.

[00:37:02] I thought I would get a wise judge and I got a ridiculous judge who wouldn't even let me out of handcuffs in the courtroom.

[00:37:11] Like he just treated me like garbage.

[00:37:14] And I, I ended up incarcerated in Poland for 50 months and I had to just go through the system step-by-step.

[00:37:23] Never had any visitors.

[00:37:25] I had, I learned how to speak Polish because when you don't speak the, the native language, people just think you're stupid.

[00:37:33] I learned how to speak Polish and even started thinking in Polish, which greatly diminished my, the quality of my thinking.

[00:37:42] And that, you know, but I, I also, at that point just realized that this, this problem is, is way too big for me.

[00:37:50] Child abuse is happening all over the place.

[00:37:53] And it's like got so close to me and I couldn't see it.

[00:37:58] And my daughter, my daughter is on the far end of the spectrum where her mother told me she has Stockholm syndrome and, and then told me she was going to abduct our daughter and then did.

[00:38:09] So it drove me to God is what it did.

[00:38:13] Right.

[00:38:13] It drove me towards, towards the scripture that I, that I said before, just all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purpose.

[00:38:23] And God who answers prayer.

[00:38:25] And I just went, I went all in that way.

[00:38:29] And when I was released, I went back to Connecticut tentatively because I had to live with my dad who was one of the people that testified against me.

[00:38:39] He didn't stand on like standing court and testify, but emails that he sent to my first wife were used to prove that no one believed me.

[00:38:48] And I just went down the road of fasting and praying and thinking I was going to become a monk and did that for several years.

[00:38:55] And then my second wife walked into my life and I told her my story and she just, and I had $5 in my pocket.

[00:39:03] Like I had, I had nothing.

[00:39:05] I told her my story and she was just like, let's do what we need to do.

[00:39:09] And I just, I think that God put us together to continue this fight for my daughter, but also for child abuse in general.

[00:39:17] I like my, my hatred of child abuse.

[00:39:22] It was there when I was a child and being spanked.

[00:39:27] And that's, that's not even something that that's debatable whether spanking is, is child abuse to me as a child that felt like, and then maybe it was just because of how it was administered.

[00:39:36] But I knew there was something wrong with it and I would never do that.

[00:39:41] And I think that a lot of it comes from the fact that my, my abuse with that 12 year old girl, I don't think that the biggest impact that I experienced was because of what she did, but because of the betrayal from not having anybody to go to.

[00:39:58] Right.

[00:39:58] And the, and the fact that that's why I buried it because there was, there was nowhere to take it.

[00:40:04] So I had to bury it for all those years and it came out with various symptoms over the years.

[00:40:10] Right.

[00:40:11] We, we finally published the story of my childhood, my getting married to my first wife and all the signs and symptoms that were there of that.

[00:40:21] My first wife had been a victim of abuse and my daughter had been a victim of abuse and how that parental child abduction happened.

[00:40:30] And then what, what I did afterwards to try to get help and ending up in prison for 50 months in Poland.

[00:40:38] Right.

[00:40:38] And also where I draw my hope from.

[00:40:40] And, and I, and I know, I know that something's going to break.

[00:40:44] I know that not only is my daughter going to be pulled from that situation, but this in general, this, this type of abuse that is, is hidden from, from society that we, we don't want to look at it.

[00:40:59] It's like, we just, we just started talking about it in my lifetime.

[00:41:04] It just came to, you know, came to the news and people started realizing that child abuse is a big issue.

[00:41:09] It's not, it's not stranger danger.

[00:41:12] That's the big problem, but people have contact with.

[00:41:15] And so my, on my heart is just to, to fight for, to expose this as, this is the, we shouldn't be fighting a war on drugs.

[00:41:26] We should be fighting a war on child abuse is, is my, is my position.

[00:41:30] Like it's just.

[00:41:31] And so much like in your case, it's beyond child abuse and it's trafficking and it's happening in families.

[00:41:39] Boys and girls are abused and trafficked and men and women are abusers.

[00:41:48] They are traffickers.

[00:41:49] They are buyers.

[00:41:50] Both men and women.

[00:41:53] And the whole concept that it happens in families, it's doesn't fit the mold.

[00:41:59] It doesn't fit the, the, the soundbite of what trafficking is.

[00:42:04] And it's this, all the research is now showing there's this huge broad spectrum and a huge chunk is from families trafficking their children for different reasons.

[00:42:17] And it's all classes.

[00:42:20] It's all countries.

[00:42:22] And it's horribly common in the U S and it happens everywhere.

[00:42:29] And yeah, there's just not enough voices telling this story.

[00:42:35] And I'm so thrilled that you have the courage and the boldness to share this story with the public.

[00:42:45] And it's so needed, just horrified about what happened with your daughter and that whole situation.

[00:42:53] So you met your second wife and it sounds like that helped with your healing process.

[00:43:00] And she believed you.

[00:43:01] So please continue.

[00:43:04] Yeah, that, that, that greatly helped with my healing process.

[00:43:07] I think I was in a state of paralysis there.

[00:43:11] Right.

[00:43:12] And like, just like my, my experience with sex, like from, from being sexually abused, from having my first wife be completely something that I thought didn't think she was, you know?

[00:43:27] So like, and, and all of that, that whole situation, that huge trauma of having my daughter stolen from me.

[00:43:36] Right.

[00:43:37] And my, my second wife has just helped me to be, to be open and honest about everything and to learn to trust somebody again and to learn what that means.

[00:43:48] Right.

[00:43:48] And, and, uh, I'm still dealing with things like there's still like a, I don't know if it's PTSD, but it feels like it sometimes where like, I just, I feel like my world is dropping out.

[00:44:01] And like, all of a sudden I'll just feel like I hate my, my second wife, you know, like I, I really dislike you.

[00:44:07] I don't want to do this.

[00:44:09] And like, where does that come from?

[00:44:11] You know, it's, it's a trauma.

[00:44:13] It has to be a trauma response because, you know, it easily clears up and I know it's not true, but it sure, it sure feels, feels true when it's happening.

[00:44:22] Right.

[00:44:23] And they say things like transference where you're really angry at your first wife, but she's not there.

[00:44:29] So all that anger and frustration, where do you get it out?

[00:44:32] And it goes to the second wife.

[00:44:34] And that happened.

[00:44:35] That's very, very common that we're angry at one thing, but there is no release.

[00:44:40] So then we let it all out on someone else or something else that that's very common.

[00:44:45] And there's so much pain and hurt from this whole ordeal that I'm sure you're still dealing with and letting that go and finding healthy ways to let go of the anger and the pain and the sadness and the loss and the grief.

[00:45:03] All those emotions probably still have such a huge role with your daughter, but then also now that you've got the memories back of what happened to you as well.

[00:45:15] And dealing with those memories and those pains and that they're kind of intertwined together, the two things.

[00:45:22] And all those.

[00:45:24] Yeah.

[00:45:24] All those feelings and processing those in healthy ways.

[00:45:30] Yeah.

[00:45:30] So how did things progress with you and your not yet wife, but then you did get married?

[00:45:38] And then how did things go from there?

[00:45:41] And then how did you find healing?

[00:45:44] When I initially met her, I was deep into the Bible and believing that the God of the Bible was my answer.

[00:45:51] When I met her, she was in the new age.

[00:45:53] And one of the first things she told me was there's no devil.

[00:45:56] You know, I just kind of chuckled out.

[00:45:58] I bought her a Bible, gave it to her.

[00:46:00] And I didn't try to change her mind.

[00:46:02] I just kept telling her my story and, you know, reading scripture to her as well.

[00:46:08] And we just had discussions about it.

[00:46:10] And we just kind of had our, we stayed on the farm together.

[00:46:13] We were selling vegetables and started the process of writing more seriously because I had even, I put the writing aside because I, I didn't want to think that I could take it into my hands and do anything again.

[00:46:25] And I wanted a more clear sign what the story needed to be.

[00:46:29] And when, when we started, when we joined forces, that's when it was clear, like, okay, this is the story now.

[00:46:35] And I think it's because it was more complete.

[00:46:38] She's the most honest person that I've ever met, which is, which is amazing to me because I doubted that, you know, I was like, is this happening again?

[00:46:48] Am I being fooled another time?

[00:46:51] But just every step of the way, there's been healing with, with our relationship.

[00:46:57] And just that trust and honesty has been built up again to where, like, I don't have any, any doubts about her.

[00:47:06] Now there's, there's still serious issues with me.

[00:47:10] Like if we have a child, which we probably will, she's, she's younger than I am and she's going to want children.

[00:47:16] And I, and I love children, but like trust, trusting our child with my parents or her parents, or even putting them in a, putting them like in a church youth group.

[00:47:28] I, I don't think that I can do that as a dad ever again, because I, because of what I've seen and what, what I've experienced.

[00:47:36] And then, and then also what I know my daughters experienced, that's still like a very difficult thing to, to try to wrap my head around how I would, how I would manage that.

[00:47:50] Because as, as a dad going, going through what I've been through, I can't, I absolutely cannot let it happen again.

[00:47:57] Right.

[00:47:58] But we, we weren't in a church.

[00:48:00] My stepdad died and that, that brought us to the church where his funeral was.

[00:48:05] I did the eulogy and then it just became clear that we were supposed to be in that church, which was amazing.

[00:48:13] Cause I didn't think I could ever go to like a church like that again, but it's actually turned out to be, to be good.

[00:48:20] And we went through premarital counseling, which helped kind of set up different things that I had never thought about and build our relationship with God at the center.

[00:48:32] Right.

[00:48:32] Now we're still, we're still figuring things out.

[00:48:35] When, when I released my book in May and exposed what I've exposed, the attacks started coming from Poland towards me.

[00:48:43] Oh yeah.

[00:48:44] So an email went to our church just saying that, that I'm, I'm a terrible guy and I've done all, you know, that I'm the monster.

[00:48:52] And it's just, it's just a case of, I've written a book saying my daughter's being abused in Poland and here's the details.

[00:49:00] And so they try to flip it back on me, which is a typical, typical tactic.

[00:49:04] Right.

[00:49:05] Exactly.

[00:49:05] But I, so that of course at my church, we haven't had any problems because they, they know me and I'm, I'm literally an open book and I, and I'm, I've, I've worked in the youth with the youth.

[00:49:18] I'm a Bible study leader and, and things like that.

[00:49:21] So there's no problems there.

[00:49:22] But then, uh, most recently I lost my job because the, the same email went to my employer.

[00:49:29] Wow.

[00:49:30] Wow.

[00:49:30] So it's like, it's every step of the way is like teaching me how to trust in, in God even more and lean on him and realize that this story is, is ridiculous.

[00:49:44] And either he has a way for me or, or I'm all done.

[00:49:47] And I, and I think that that's, that's the strongest part of my testimony, I think is because we all have these experiences that are just mind blowing and horrible.

[00:49:59] And the answer is the same.

[00:50:01] Like it's, I think, I think that having my daughter still being in, in what my first wife called the cult and not having seen her in 14 years just keeps me, it keeps me in that serious.

[00:50:15] This is war mentality, but it's just like, I'm able to deal with, with other people who, and I have a lot of friends, uh, male friends.

[00:50:25] I don't talk to my female friends about this, but male friends who've been sexually abused and who are dealing with this and dealing with denial.

[00:50:33] Right.

[00:50:33] Dealing with, with identity issues and, and things like that.

[00:50:38] And it's just like the, the issue is so widespread.

[00:50:42] And the answer is the same, whether, whether your daughter is in hell or you're in hell.

[00:50:49] I'm interviewing for jobs, trying to figure out how to deal with the reference situation, because, uh, in the past 15 years, I've only worked for myself and for this place where they, they terminated.

[00:51:01] Maybe it's email.

[00:51:03] So that's, that's interesting.

[00:51:04] And, um, but doors are opening and what I'm doing now is just when I apply for a job, I'm sending them the PDF of my book and just laying it on the table and just saying, you know, if this, if this precludes me from being able to work for you, then so be it.

[00:51:19] Um, I'm just, I'm just going to keep moving forward.

[00:51:22] I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep speaking out about, uh, about child abuse and extreme child abuse.

[00:51:29] And in doing that, it has brought people to me that trust me and know that I can, that they can tell me about their own stories.

[00:51:39] And I understand it because I've experienced it, even though it's on, on the low end of the spectrum.

[00:51:45] Right.

[00:51:46] You know, it wasn't a caregiver.

[00:51:47] It wasn't prolonged.

[00:51:50] Um, so what I personally experienced wasn't huge, but it was huge enough to have amnesia for more than 20 years.

[00:51:59] And it isn't a contest.

[00:52:01] I say this because you hear my story and all these horrible things happened.

[00:52:06] It isn't a contest.

[00:52:07] It's all bad.

[00:52:08] It's all horribly destructive.

[00:52:10] And even if it just happens one time, if you don't have the supports in place to help you to deal with that.

[00:52:18] And so many of us didn't, it's going to mess you up in very deep and severe ways.

[00:52:24] Just one time.

[00:52:26] Yes.

[00:52:27] And so, yeah, it is not a contest.

[00:52:30] So yes, what you went through was horrible.

[00:52:33] What I went through was horrible.

[00:52:35] And so don't minimize the fact that the story doesn't seem as severe.

[00:52:41] But you can see what the impact was on your own life, that it did have profound impact on you for sure.

[00:52:50] Yep.

[00:52:51] It definitely did.

[00:52:52] I can't say that I'm glad that I was abused, but it's kind of like I can say that I'm blessed in a sense to have experienced it and have experienced it on the level that I did.

[00:53:04] Because it didn't take control of my life for very long.

[00:53:08] It had impacts, and it probably still has impacts that I'm dealing with.

[00:53:12] But it's like I can understand where people are coming from, and I can understand people's stories more clearly than if I just grew up in an idyllic household.

[00:53:26] Right.

[00:53:26] You know, so it's like I just think that all things are working towards a purpose, and this world is ridiculous, and so many children are being abused.

[00:53:39] And it just has to stop.

[00:53:41] Right.

[00:53:42] It absolutely has to stop.

[00:53:44] And we have to stop brushing it under the rug and putting family privacy ahead of child safety.

[00:53:53] Right.

[00:53:53] I don't know how that looks or how we do that, but I would be willing to put cameras in all houses, even though privacy is important, but child protection is more important to me.

[00:54:05] Right.

[00:54:06] Yeah, I understand.

[00:54:07] And I know it's frustrating.

[00:54:09] The stats for men, one in six are abused in the U.S., so they think that number is low.

[00:54:17] But so many men, like you mentioned, they deal with it.

[00:54:21] They have a hard time even considering the fact that this icky thing that happened to them when they were younger was actually abuse because our bodies respond.

[00:54:33] And the perps will say, hey, your body responded.

[00:54:36] So that means it's OK.

[00:54:38] So that means you're liking it.

[00:54:40] All those things.

[00:54:41] So men have such a harder time dealing with this and accepting this as something bad that happened to them and that it was not OK.

[00:54:54] And getting to that point, so many men out there.

[00:54:57] Yeah, they have it and they don't know what to do and how to find healing, which brings me to the next question.

[00:55:03] How did you find your own healing?

[00:55:07] It seems like the relationship with your second wife was huge.

[00:55:10] Your faith was huge.

[00:55:12] What other things have you used to try to help you find healing in all of this?

[00:55:19] Yeah, so I think that the two things you mentioned are the biggest thing is the healing relationship with my wife and my relationship with God.

[00:55:28] Other than that, I think just seeking understanding and reading books like The Body Keeps the Score by Van Der Kolk and just kind of getting to a deeper understanding of human behavior, like on the bad side and why people are doing what they're doing.

[00:55:45] And how just corrupted we've become in that way and how common it is and just like what my response, understanding my responses from like a psychological perspective and from a spiritual perspective and just just like diving into the books and understanding it in that way.

[00:56:08] And then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, you know, this is what I've experienced.

[00:56:14] How do I look at myself like objectively from the position of a therapist?

[00:56:18] And I think also just like stopping going down the road of thinking that drugs are going to be the answer, you know, realizing I don't have ADHD, depression or panic disorder, that those were things that that's my that was my body's response.

[00:56:36] And even now, like I mentioned that I can't self-diagnose, but PTSD would be as close as I could put it to just how I can get to this absolutely destroyed place.

[00:56:51] And I'm still trying to figure that out.

[00:56:54] And it's like it's something that, you know, my wife is amazing and she's patient and she's totally forgiving, you know, like so so she allows me to have these like outbursts.

[00:57:08] So that was what it looks like.

[00:57:09] It looks like a toddler toddler having an outburst.

[00:57:11] And she just she just immediately turns the page and says, OK, you know, let's let's get through this.

[00:57:18] Let's figure this out.

[00:57:19] How do we how do we gradually heal this?

[00:57:23] So I think her willingness to do that.

[00:57:25] And right.

[00:57:26] And I just and I also I think keeping my head in the scripture is is the most important thing, because that's that's how the lies get get rectified.

[00:57:35] That's how, you know, although all those lies that are told to us, like there is a truth to that.

[00:57:42] That's what it comes down to.

[00:57:44] And then the rest of it is kind of my my daughter's story is bigger than my story.

[00:57:51] And as a dad, she comes first.

[00:57:54] And so in that, like I have to put aside like the anger or the negative things that that like reside in me, you know, less and less as I proceed.

[00:58:08] But some of that was very real and very intense.

[00:58:11] And what I what I realize is that none of that's going to work.

[00:58:16] So so it's been a process of like trying to eliminate that from myself, because I believe that only love can fight this hatred and this distortion.

[00:58:29] So it's just like what's going to work.

[00:58:31] Well, love's going to work.

[00:58:33] And so just just going that way and forcing myself to transform, just going going through that process and believing that good does win over evil.

[00:58:44] And it's not nihilism is a lie.

[00:58:48] You know, like things are for a reason.

[00:58:50] There are absolutely horrible things happening.

[00:58:52] But that's not the end of the story.

[00:58:54] Right.

[00:58:54] And you had mentioned that God's using your experience.

[00:59:00] Yeah, I heard God doesn't waste a pain.

[00:59:03] He doesn't cause it.

[00:59:04] He didn't allow it to happen.

[00:59:06] It's an evil, sinful world and bad things happen.

[00:59:11] Yes.

[00:59:11] That said, he does not waste a pain.

[00:59:14] So just like my story and your story, there is power in your story.

[00:59:20] The fact that you're sharing it, you've written the book, you're going and sharing your story, whatever platforms you can get on to let people know this stuff happens.

[00:59:29] It's not just this one time.

[00:59:32] It's worldwide.

[00:59:34] It's all over the place.

[00:59:36] The power that you will have when somebody else is facing that same thing.

[00:59:40] They can hear your story.

[00:59:41] Oh, my gosh.

[00:59:42] That thing is happening to me, too.

[00:59:44] I'm not the only one.

[00:59:45] So the fact that you're out here sharing your story, even the abuse part of your story, that can be the catalyst for somebody else to find healing.

[00:59:59] And the fact that you share with other men who have childhood sexual abuse as part of their story and you're sharing with them and supporting them.

[01:00:07] That's wonderful.

[01:00:09] And yeah, that's the that's the theme of this podcast.

[01:00:12] One of the themes is the power of story.

[01:00:14] And I commend you for your courage in doing that.

[01:00:19] Any final thoughts for our listener out there?

[01:00:26] I think I think you you just hit it.

[01:00:29] Like my story is with my daughter and and understanding abuse through my own abuse and then knowing my daughter's going through it.

[01:00:37] And it's it's it's the absolute worst thing that I could think of.

[01:00:43] I'm not at this point right now, but there was there was a long time where I would try to think of analogies.

[01:00:49] And it's like if I could stop the abuse of my daughter and I would do whatever it takes.

[01:00:54] I would push a button and stop the world to do that.

[01:00:57] So that's what that's what I want more than anything.

[01:01:01] Right, of course.

[01:01:02] And so but but but when I when I get on my knees and pray, I had to learn to just to to forgive.

[01:01:08] And that that is a very difficult process.

[01:01:12] Right.

[01:01:12] And it is a process for sure.

[01:01:15] It is a process.

[01:01:16] But I know and I know God didn't have anything to do with any of this.

[01:01:20] Right.

[01:01:21] But I'm thankful to him that he provides the answer that this is something that that happened to me and happened to my family.

[01:01:29] And even in that, I will blow up the world to stop it.

[01:01:34] He's given me.

[01:01:36] The means to to kind of do that, like he's going to he answers those who cry out to him in prayer.

[01:01:43] He delivered.

[01:01:43] He delivers those that that ask to be saved in truth.

[01:01:48] And like I.

[01:01:50] So I'm thankful for it all.

[01:01:52] Like, I'm thankful for for the experiences.

[01:01:54] This is in, you know, it's hard to be thankful for losing your daughter and losing her entire childhood.

[01:02:01] But, you know, in a way, I am because because it's not OK that this is happening to anybody.

[01:02:07] And I wouldn't be in this fight unless my daughter was was in it.

[01:02:13] So it's pulled me into the fight and it's pulled all of me into the fight.

[01:02:18] I know that we win.

[01:02:19] Right.

[01:02:20] I know I absolutely know that we win and that this this goes away like this.

[01:02:27] What I've seen cannot continue.

[01:02:30] It's it absolutely has to has to be overrun with with good.

[01:02:36] Right.

[01:02:38] Absolutely.

[01:02:40] Where can we find you?

[01:02:42] I know I'll have links in the show notes to your book.

[01:02:46] I know it's on Amazon, but you also have a Web site as well.

[01:02:50] Talking about your book and your search for your daughter.

[01:02:54] Yes.

[01:02:55] My book's called I Love You Like One, a letter to my daughter abducted by a cult.

[01:02:59] So most of my things are found.

[01:03:02] I love you like one is my Facebook page and Instagram page.

[01:03:05] It's also I love you like one.

[01:03:08] Ian Bryson is my YouTube page.

[01:03:11] And I've started making videos and just I'm just trying to speak as much as I can.

[01:03:17] I'm also open if anybody has topics that I should speak about.

[01:03:22] And it just I don't know where that's going to lead.

[01:03:25] It's kind of something new that I've started and it's it's uncomfortable at first.

[01:03:29] But I'm going to keep working on my YouTube page.

[01:03:31] And my book my book is on Amazon or through the Web site.

[01:03:35] I love you like one dot com.

[01:03:36] If you can't afford it, then I'll send you the PDF.

[01:03:39] PDF, I've been asking people to send me a dollar so that I know who's who's getting it.

[01:03:45] Because initially I just did it for a free PDF download and I wasn't able to tell like how many were going out.

[01:03:52] Right.

[01:03:52] But if people email me and say I can't afford it, I just send them the PDF.

[01:03:58] I just want people to read the book.

[01:04:01] I want my daughter's story to get out.

[01:04:04] And I want people to feel comfortable telling their own stories as well.

[01:04:09] And just for it to become a larger conversation where we're all telling our stories and we're saying enough is enough.

[01:04:16] Amen.

[01:04:17] Amen.

[01:04:18] Thank you so much, Ian, for being here.

[01:04:20] And we will see you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.

[01:04:31] If you would like to learn more about my coaching with Polar Live Consulting, where I provide one-on-one coaching and group coaching, both with a focus on healing for male survivors, reach out to me at polarliveconsulting.com.

[01:04:45] That is polar spelled P-O-L-A-R.

[01:04:49] I would love to hear from you.

[01:04:50] I want to hear your story.

[01:04:52] If you would like your story featured on this podcast, contact me via my website.

[01:04:57] If you like this podcast, please rate and review because that's how other people can find me.

[01:05:02] And I really want to spread this message of healing and hope to others.

[01:05:06] And remember, you are not alone.

[01:05:09] Healing is possible.

[01:05:11] And the abuse was not your fault.

[01:05:13] Let me repeat that.

[01:05:15] The abuse was not your fault.

[01:05:18] See you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.