48 - Panel: Holiday Triggers

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is Mike Chapman. If you would like to join us live on future podcasts, like we do have a live audience with us today, you can do so and learn how at polarlifeconsulting.com slash live.

[00:00:46] And today, we have another panel. And today's panel is because it's the most triggering time of the year. It's holiday triggers. So with me today on my panel is Daniel Eichelberger, who's been a previous guest and Rocky Pizer, who's also been a previous guest.

[00:01:14] I'm going to welcome. I'm going to let them introduce themselves quickly. And then we'll talk about triggers. So we'll start with Daniel. Quick intro. Tell us about yourself.

[00:01:24] I am Daniel Eichelberger. I am a father of four boys. I live in Ohio and I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.

[00:01:32] Yes. And Rocky.

[00:01:35] I'm Rocky Pizer. I have Reconnect Hope, which is coaching those that have unwanted sexual desires.

[00:01:43] And I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. And I just love to see guys get redeemed of that.

[00:01:52] Yeah. And welcome. So today we're talking about holiday triggers.

[00:01:58] And we're publishing this right around the Thanksgiving holidays in the U.S., which is the end of November leading into the Christmas season, which, yes, that's when men get triggered so often with the holidays and the stress and so forth.

[00:02:20] Yes. So what are some of big holiday triggers for you guys?

[00:02:27] And then when you are triggered, what do you do to help counteract those triggers?

[00:02:36] Let me start with Rocky.

[00:02:38] Well, Mike, one of the triggers that I deal with is it's actually nostalgia is one of the words for it, where I'm thinking about my past history.

[00:02:49] And it is a place where when I was young, I was in the hospital for the first eight Christmases because of a severe asthma condition.

[00:02:58] And so my first eight years was being in the hospital and missing Santa Claus.

[00:03:05] Wow.

[00:03:06] And so the cool thing about it, the plus side is the ninth year I got home and all the Christmas decorations are still up.

[00:03:15] The tree's still up. And there's a note that says Rocky.

[00:03:17] I open it up and it says, hey, this is Santa.

[00:03:20] I heard you were sick. I'm coming back.

[00:03:22] They're going to let me know when you're home.

[00:03:23] I'll see you tomorrow.

[00:03:25] I'll have it all set up. And sure enough, the next day we have presents and the whole thing.

[00:03:30] But what's happened is I get depressed around the holidays.

[00:03:36] And it's because of the disappointment of being sick in a hospital year after year after year as a child.

[00:03:44] And it was also when my childhood sexual abuse was beginning right towards the end of that.

[00:03:51] I was nine, eight and nine.

[00:03:53] And so it ties in with that because it was neighborhood boys and we all were off school for the holidays while the parents worked.

[00:04:03] And so there was sexual abuse going on.

[00:04:06] So it's taken me many years to remind myself going in.

[00:04:10] I mean, proactive, like, OK, there's a possibility I'll feel depression.

[00:04:14] I'll feel a little at one point or another.

[00:04:17] I will just feel depression.

[00:04:19] And I'm not that little kid anymore.

[00:04:21] And I don't have to experience that anymore.

[00:04:24] And I'm not sick anymore.

[00:04:26] And I just remind myself and affirm who I am and where I've come from.

[00:04:30] And I bring another two really close friends in with it.

[00:04:35] They know now.

[00:04:36] But so they help me walk through it.

[00:04:39] And it's gotten better every year.

[00:04:40] But that was a big one for me.

[00:04:42] Right.

[00:04:43] And I know, especially for those who experienced a lot of abuse during the holidays, just the time of year and then all of the sounds and the smells and so forth.

[00:04:56] Can you bring you back and be triggering just because of the time of year?

[00:05:03] And I'm with my own story.

[00:05:05] I'm trying to piece together probably like around New Year's was possibly when as a young child, my father first started because that was like right around the age that with my therapist.

[00:05:25] It's like it went to about seven months and I would have been.

[00:05:28] What was that?

[00:05:29] That would have been mid-January.

[00:05:30] So just before that would be New Year's.

[00:05:32] So it's like, OK.

[00:05:34] So, yeah, I did the math with that.

[00:05:39] So.

[00:05:40] So.

[00:05:41] I think for anyone's story, if chances are.

[00:05:46] Especially if it was a family member who was the perpetrator, they might have more access during the holidays because the kids are home from school.

[00:05:57] People are busy going out shopping.

[00:05:59] Oh, I'll watch the kids.

[00:06:01] You know, and probably more of those things can happen.

[00:06:07] So just the season, the time of year that it is can certainly cause triggers.

[00:06:13] Daniel.

[00:06:14] So, you know, holidays are kind of a double-edged sword for me.

[00:06:18] I like Rocky.

[00:06:19] I have a lot of nostalgia around them and a lot of good things.

[00:06:22] And when I think about my childhood holidays, probably most of them, they were the highlight of my year.

[00:06:29] So a lot of the abuse that I experienced did not take place during the holidays because during the holidays everyone was together.

[00:06:38] So there wasn't really opportunities for, you know, those who took advantage of me to take advantage of me.

[00:06:45] But there are things that happened within the context of the holidays that always kind of bring me back to the very vulnerable part of my youth and feeling vulnerable even during all of that, knowing what was happening to me outside of the holidays.

[00:06:59] So for me, I experienced seasonal depression around the holidays.

[00:07:04] Right.

[00:07:04] Especially if I cannot recreate in some way the nostalgia that I used to feel because the nostalgia that I feel around the holidays is the one redeeming thing about my childhood that kind of counterbalanced the shame that I was experiencing on a daily basis.

[00:07:53] So Christmas was pretty much a highlight.

[00:07:54] And I just remember him going over.

[00:07:56] It was a tombstone pizza that he bought and him coming back home and making that and just remembering who he was, how he treated me, things that he did.

[00:08:08] I can get triggered around New Year's when it comes to tombstone pizza because the thoughts and the memories of him come back to me then.

[00:08:19] And I loved him.

[00:08:20] He was my brother, but he also did some very terrible things to me.

[00:08:23] So there's that.

[00:08:26] And then there's just the general darkness of the holidays that is a trigger for me.

[00:08:31] It's a dark time outside.

[00:08:33] The length and, you know, the darkness is longer than the daylight.

[00:08:38] My abuse happened in daylight and darkness, but the darkness speaks something more to me.

[00:08:43] So just the time of day itself or the holidays is very triggering for me.

[00:08:50] And it a lot of times will trigger depression.

[00:08:52] And so I try to counterbalance that by recreating the nostalgia of my childhood with either my own children or by bringing in my friends, having friends over, connecting with them, using the good things about the holidays,

[00:09:11] which is that time you can connect with people, a time where a lot of your neighbors are even more cheerful.

[00:09:17] Right.

[00:09:17] Making cookies and baked goods for everybody, spreading some type of joy that helps me kind of cope with the triggers that I feel around the holidays.

[00:09:28] Right.

[00:09:29] Yes.

[00:09:30] I know nostalgia.

[00:09:32] I like how you worded that.

[00:09:34] Yeah, that nostalgia is huge for me wanting to remember not only when I was a kid and my mom always, even when she was a single mom, did Christmas well, even on a shoestring budget.

[00:09:47] So we always had presents, maybe not necessarily the top things that we wanted, but we had relatively nice things, but we always did stuff together.

[00:09:55] We bake cookies.

[00:09:57] We would do stuff with a visit family, trying to recreate that in different traditions with my own children as they were growing up, just looking forward to the season.

[00:10:06] But I know also just regular triggers that we'd also face any other time of the year, it's also compounded or more often will happen like groups.

[00:10:21] And a lot of us with hypervigilance, you get into huge family get togethers like my wife's family.

[00:10:28] I love them, but it's very triggering because she's from a very large family.

[00:10:34] So we have with her generation, 10 siblings, well, five siblings, spouses, that's 10, 12 grandkids.

[00:10:44] And then a lot of them are married off and then they have kids now.

[00:10:47] It's a lot of people.

[00:10:48] And then any other random relatives or extended relatives, it's a lot of people.

[00:10:55] And her mom was alive for a long time past eight years ago.

[00:10:59] So she was in the mix as well.

[00:11:02] And yeah, it got to be very triggering just trying to navigate that with all the hypervigilance.

[00:11:09] I'm better now because I've dealt with a lot of that with therapy, but still, yeah, it's very difficult.

[00:11:17] So I kind of take my limits and it's like, okay, I need a little bit of me time to also try to interact more.

[00:11:23] Whereas sometimes I would just shut down or we'd have the little kids there and I played with the little kids.

[00:11:28] And that felt safe to me.

[00:11:30] They loved it because they got a group of attention.

[00:11:32] Yeah, of course, my own kids were that little.

[00:11:36] So I'd be playing with my kids and then the other little cousins that were there too.

[00:11:40] And he played board games or whatever.

[00:11:42] Yeah, very, very triggering.

[00:11:43] But then also any food memories and so forth, the different food that's provided, the different smells,

[00:11:50] all those things can be severe triggers.

[00:11:53] So with that, what are good strategies for entering in the holidays, knowing you're probably going to be triggered,

[00:12:02] knowing you're probably going to be feeling feelings like depression, sadness, even nostalgia.

[00:12:09] I love that.

[00:12:10] That was in the new Inside Out movie, which I haven't seen yet.

[00:12:12] But nostalgia was one of the feelings.

[00:12:15] It's like, oh, yeah, feeling nostalgic.

[00:12:18] Yeah, that's very, very true.

[00:12:20] Knowing all this is coming.

[00:12:23] How can you prepare?

[00:12:25] How can you be proactive before you get to these events, before the holidays actually arrive?

[00:12:31] How can you do some strategies to try to prepare yourself, knowing you're going to be facing all of these triggers?

[00:12:39] Rocky, we'll go back to you.

[00:12:40] Okay.

[00:12:41] Thank you.

[00:12:42] I actually have a list because I've been doing this and working with groups for a while.

[00:12:46] And so I'm looking at my list.

[00:12:48] I'm cheating a little bit here.

[00:12:53] Check it twice.

[00:12:56] I like those words.

[00:12:58] Where'd those come from?

[00:12:59] I don't know.

[00:13:01] I like to be proactive and go in with a list before the holidays.

[00:13:05] And I have self-care routines.

[00:13:08] I identify the safe and supportive people in my life.

[00:13:13] And I enlist their help ahead of time.

[00:13:15] Say, hey, you know, here's some areas of the holidays I need help.

[00:13:18] Is it okay if we text a little bit more or call or maybe even grab a coffee together?

[00:13:24] And if I call and say, hey, this is a recovery call, do you understand that that's going to be an emergency situation?

[00:13:31] Otherwise, I wouldn't say that.

[00:13:33] So that's one thing I do.

[00:13:34] I've learned it's good to say no to some social activities because I've become a social person since I've done a lot of recovery.

[00:13:41] And you get so worn out that you're not your best self.

[00:13:46] And that is a danger zone for me anyway.

[00:13:49] So that's two of about five.

[00:13:50] You want me to list all of them?

[00:13:51] You want to?

[00:13:52] Go for it.

[00:13:54] If I find that I'm alone for some reason, maybe my wife is away with some of the ladies at church or something like that, I pre-plan to be with somebody.

[00:14:03] So I'm not alone in the house for a number of reasons.

[00:14:07] Being left out of groups was a big trigger for me for years and years and years.

[00:14:12] Child and adult.

[00:14:13] If I feel like I'm having really big emotions, like Adam Young calls them those big emotions, then it's okay to acknowledge it and know that it's a part of who I am and know that I can talk to some of my close friends and work through them instead of acting out on them.

[00:14:31] That's important to acknowledge those big emotions.

[00:14:34] And I know my triggers and I take a look at them and remind myself.

[00:14:38] These are the areas that I need to be careful about and I can have freedom to do a lot of things outside of those areas.

[00:14:46] I don't have to include any of the trigger areas.

[00:14:49] And I have healthy alternatives listed to what I can do instead of those things that might trigger me.

[00:14:55] So those are a few that really have helped me and some other guys that I've been with over the years.

[00:15:02] Right.

[00:15:02] Very helpful.

[00:15:03] Daniel.

[00:15:04] So, yes, well, ditto to all that Rocky said.

[00:15:09] He kind of stole all the thunder there.

[00:15:11] Very, very, very thorough list there.

[00:15:14] But, yeah, I was thinking along the lines of self-awareness has been very key for me to dealing with triggers of any type at any time of year.

[00:15:24] You know, if I know that I'm going into a time where triggers are going to present themselves more than others, just being self-aware and going into that time knowing that, hey, I'm probably going to get walloped here or there.

[00:15:38] I might feel bad a few days.

[00:15:40] And it's not going to be the end of the world.

[00:15:43] So just reminding myself I've been there before and I've come through it.

[00:15:49] And because I've been there before and come through it, I don't have to fear what I'm going to face during that, you know, the coming holiday season or whatever else, whatever other season that is a trigger for me.

[00:16:02] So just being self-aware and actually I practice that as much as I possibly can.

[00:16:08] I talk to myself, not always audibly, sometimes audibly, and just remind myself, you know what, Daniel, you've been through this before.

[00:16:17] It's going to be all right.

[00:16:18] And then the other thing I do is I try to definitely immerse myself in meaningful activity.

[00:16:25] Like I said, if I can recreate some of the joy and the splendor and the wonder that holidays were for me, the positive aspects of them, then the negative aspects kind of have to take a back seat to the way I'm feeling in the moment that I'm expressing my joy and my creativity.

[00:16:46] And for me, like I said, my wife and I have established a tradition.

[00:16:50] I mean, lots of families bake cookies for the holidays.

[00:16:52] But now to us, it's a serious thing.

[00:16:54] Like we make trays.

[00:16:56] We take them to neighbors.

[00:16:57] We take them to family.

[00:16:59] And just enjoy the welcome we feel when we're giving something to somebody else.

[00:17:07] That actually is a big balm to my heart during times that I would otherwise feel triggered.

[00:17:15] Right.

[00:17:16] I know I used to.

[00:17:18] I enjoy baking and I love baking.

[00:17:20] But for some reason, Christmas time is very, very, very busy for me because now as a professional Santa, December is very booked.

[00:17:30] So even decorating, we have to plan like early November, like right after Halloween, we need to start putting stuff up because otherwise every single weekend I would be booked and I will be away.

[00:17:45] And with that, even before I became a Santa, starting to realize and tell myself that it didn't have to be a perfect Christmas.

[00:17:57] That good enough was good enough.

[00:18:00] It did not have to be perfect.

[00:18:02] So and I would spend hours and hours decorating the house inside and out, hanging stuff, all that, spending hours and hours and hours.

[00:18:14] And when I was younger, that was nice.

[00:18:17] And the kids were at home.

[00:18:18] That was nice.

[00:18:18] They're not.

[00:18:19] They come for a day and then they leave.

[00:18:21] And I thoroughly enjoy other people's decorations.

[00:18:24] But right now, OK, if we get the tree up and a few decorations up, that's OK.

[00:18:30] Get the stockings up.

[00:18:31] Those are easy to hang.

[00:18:33] And that's enough.

[00:18:35] That's OK.

[00:18:36] And being OK with that, then I had to convince myself it did not have to be perfect.

[00:18:41] It's OK.

[00:18:43] Realizing that, yeah, healthy boundaries for myself from what I that perfectionistic thing I need to do versus no, you really don't do the things that are important to you.

[00:18:56] And then that's it.

[00:18:57] And I know we do have our traditions, which because my family was on the other side of the country, we would do her family on Christmas Day traditionally when we were younger and we would go over to their house.

[00:19:12] And then Christmas Eve, all of her siblings and so forth would go to their in-laws.

[00:19:17] I didn't have in-laws.

[00:19:18] I mean, I mean, it would be my family, my side of the family.

[00:19:21] They were on the other side of the country.

[00:19:23] So we did homemade pizza and that was our tradition.

[00:19:27] So coming up with simple, fun traditions and it started Chef YRD, which they still sell those things kind of nasty.

[00:19:36] And then we moved up to globally and homemade crusts and different things.

[00:19:39] And the kids love it.

[00:19:40] It's their tradition.

[00:19:41] And they love making homemade pizza now, too.

[00:19:44] And that's been, yeah, every year.

[00:19:47] Now it'll be different when they get married off, start having babies.

[00:19:50] Then we'll probably start the traditions all over again.

[00:19:53] And chances are we'd probably, after Christmas break, probably watch them here and take care of them for a while while they're away working and whatnot.

[00:20:02] So who knows?

[00:20:04] That's grandpa goals.

[00:20:05] Trying to balance what I can realistically do, knowing my schedule and being okay with that and not stressing myself out that it has to be a perfect Christmas.

[00:20:17] And finding that healthy balance, I think that's been very helpful and something that's helped me the last several years for sure.

[00:20:25] So any other tips?

[00:20:26] Any other tips?

[00:20:27] We'll go back to Rocky.

[00:20:29] Mike, I love that you brought up the perfect Christmas and how important that was.

[00:20:33] I married into a family where that was a big deal.

[00:20:36] And I was really relating to that.

[00:20:38] So thank you for that.

[00:20:40] The other problematic area is, for me, was New Year's Eve because, you know, my family and a lot of friends are saying,

[00:20:48] so what's your resolutions for the new year?

[00:20:50] And I'm thinking, I make them every year and I never fulfill them.

[00:20:54] I don't even want to go there.

[00:20:55] And, you know, one thing would lead to another.

[00:20:57] It's like, how do I get away from that?

[00:20:59] Because I'm just not a guy that could follow through on New Year's resolutions.

[00:21:03] And it was a reminder for many years of, you know, what a failure I was at making resolutions.

[00:21:09] And I'm still as fat as I was a year before because I didn't work out.

[00:21:16] Or, you know, no, I didn't join the Olympics or anything like that.

[00:21:20] It would also add to the depression after the holidays.

[00:21:23] It's like, when am I ever going to grow up?

[00:21:26] And it would remind me of the stunted emotional growth because of childhood sexual abuse.

[00:21:35] And my emotional growth came along a lot later in life where I could think about, hey, let me do New Year's resolutions

[00:21:43] where I know I'll follow through on them and don't make them so grandiose, which is what a kid does.

[00:21:49] You know, what do you want to be when you grow up?

[00:21:50] Oh, a fireman or a doctor, you know?

[00:21:52] Kind of the same thing.

[00:21:53] I had that emotional immaturity.

[00:21:54] And so it was helpful over time to go, well, I just want to be 10 pounds lighter.

[00:22:01] My resolution is to be engaged in people around me and know who they are.

[00:22:09] Right.

[00:22:10] That kind of thing.

[00:22:11] But that was a tough one, too.

[00:22:14] Right.

[00:22:14] For sure.

[00:22:15] Yes.

[00:22:16] Anything you'd like to add, Daniel?

[00:22:18] Oh, I don't know.

[00:22:19] I think I really appreciate what you were saying about learning to let good enough be good enough.

[00:22:28] Because, like, you know, I keep talking about nostalgia and trying to recreate, recreate.

[00:22:33] And if I'm not careful in doing that, I can make what's supposed to be a simple thing, simple recreation into a big thing to try so hard to make things turn out in a certain way.

[00:22:49] Because maybe I'm trying to avoid some of the pain that's in the background.

[00:22:54] You know what I mean?

[00:22:55] And then when things don't turn out the way that I'm really trying to make them, it can land me further down the depression pole than I would have been otherwise.

[00:23:04] Definitely not in the North Pole.

[00:23:09] Maybe a little closer to the South, if I'm not careful.

[00:23:12] And that's a more modern thing for me.

[00:23:16] I mean, I think as I have walked on my recovery journey from childhood sexual abuse more in the last probably eight years or so, and I've started to embrace the holidays more, that's been my Achilles heel.

[00:23:32] It's even in all the excitement and all the recreation and all the nostalgia that I'm trying to immerse myself and I have to be careful that I don't lean on that as the solution for unresolved pain from my childhood surrounding those times.

[00:23:50] And I have a tendency to kind of do that.

[00:23:53] So that's where practicing self-awareness kind of helps me.

[00:23:57] Going into this, reminding myself, like you said, it's okay.

[00:24:01] It don't have to be perfect.

[00:24:04] Enjoy what you're doing.

[00:24:05] Enjoy the light that you bring others during the holidays.

[00:24:09] And that's enough.

[00:24:11] Right.

[00:24:11] And I love how you ended that.

[00:24:14] Find the joy.

[00:24:16] Find the joy in what you do, what activities, what events would truly feed your soul and bring you joy during this season.

[00:24:26] You don't have to do everything.

[00:24:27] Everything doesn't have to be perfect.

[00:24:29] Like, oh, let's spend one night going to look at Christmas lights.

[00:24:33] Or, yeah, let's do cookies this week.

[00:24:37] I know my wife, I know having nice traditional Christmas cookies or just baked goods, very important.

[00:24:46] But no time to bake.

[00:24:47] Because we're going every weekend doing Santa-ing things.

[00:24:51] My wife, for the last few years, has been getting someone who does, like, bakery from home kind of thing.

[00:25:00] And then ordering a whole bunch of cookies so we can have them.

[00:25:04] And it's been such a thrill and a treat to have these nice homemade cookies, even though they weren't homemade by us.

[00:25:14] But that we can have to snack on.

[00:25:18] And Santa loves his cookies.

[00:25:20] So that's been a very special thing.

[00:25:24] And even though the busyness of me going out in Santa-ing and coming back, coming home and having a cookie or two in the evening to help me unwind.

[00:25:33] During the season, looking at the Christmas tree is just like, ah.

[00:25:38] So finding those little things that can bring you joy.

[00:25:41] And also love doing the Christmas specials and the Christmas movies and so forth.

[00:25:47] Again, don't have time.

[00:25:49] So usually from December, last week of December, first, then January, sometimes into February, that's my Christmas.

[00:25:58] That's my Christmas season where I can enjoy Christmas.

[00:26:01] And so, yeah, my wife, okay, it's middle of February, time to put stuff down, put things away.

[00:26:06] And we have an artificial tree.

[00:26:07] So that stays up a good long time.

[00:26:09] And I enjoy it for as long as possible.

[00:26:11] Yeah, I love a live tree, but they don't last very long.

[00:26:14] So having that is very helpful.

[00:26:19] And knowing that I'm not able to enjoy it because I'm out so much during December, that having that afterwards.

[00:26:27] And the same thing with playing Christmas music.

[00:26:29] I will play it basically November 1.

[00:26:32] It goes on and it stays Christmas music all of November into December, a little bit into January.

[00:26:39] We used to go to Epiphany, which is January 6th.

[00:26:45] That's usually the traditional day when the three wise men came to visit Jesus.

[00:26:50] And that's the end of the official 12 days of Christmas.

[00:26:53] But then my daughter also dated someone who was from an Orthodox church.

[00:27:00] And they're on the different calendars.

[00:27:03] So actually, January 7th is Christmas.

[00:27:06] And January 6th is Christmas Eve.

[00:27:08] So they would celebrate January 7th.

[00:27:10] So then we extended it even more.

[00:27:12] So there's different tricks to be able to extend the season a little more and find an excuse to do so.

[00:27:21] But yeah, sometimes you can't fit it all in.

[00:27:23] But I do enjoy, like my wife's family usually has a get-together sometime between Christmas and New Year's.

[00:27:28] And I enjoy that because that's extended family.

[00:27:31] They've been more of my family than my own family has been because they're all on the West Coast.

[00:27:37] So spending time with them around Christmas is nice.

[00:27:42] Though still can be a little stressful and a little triggering.

[00:27:45] And I'll remind our live audience, if you have any questions or comments, put that in the chat.

[00:27:50] We will honor anonymity and only say your name if you manually type it in with your question or comment.

[00:27:58] And it's been pretty quiet tonight.

[00:28:00] I think everyone's listening who's here in the audience.

[00:28:03] Rocky.

[00:28:04] As we're talking, one of the areas we didn't cover tonight, and I don't know how we could, but I'm going to bring it up.

[00:28:10] Yes, please do.

[00:28:12] With a number of groups I worked with, it was tough to work with guys who are single and don't have family close by.

[00:28:20] And Christmas comes up and the loneliness that they feel.

[00:28:24] It's important for us not to look at them as a charity case, but to have compassion and brotherhood and family.

[00:28:33] To invite them to be a part of our own festivities, our own celebration.

[00:28:38] And know that they are just as cared and loved for, whether they're biological families here or not.

[00:28:45] And I think that's huge, especially for guys that are experiencing the recovery right now.

[00:28:50] Or they're experiencing, how do I get away from my childhood sexual abuse?

[00:28:55] And I don't feel like I'm a part of anything.

[00:28:58] Right.

[00:28:59] Let's reach out and just make them a part of our family for the holidays and help them walk through it.

[00:29:05] Right.

[00:29:05] So what would you recommend if a single man doesn't really have anyone that he knows of?

[00:29:15] Should he try to ask or hint or blatantly ask someone like from his church or to get together or whatever?

[00:29:25] As tough as it is, it's good, healthy self-care to make your needs known.

[00:29:30] These are more than I want.

[00:29:31] It really is a need.

[00:29:32] Right.

[00:29:32] And you're part of a life-giving church where there's small groups or there's places you can share that.

[00:29:39] That's good.

[00:29:40] If you or I or somebody knows somebody that is single and you know that they don't have anybody,

[00:29:46] to pray about providing that is just as important.

[00:29:51] But don't be alone.

[00:29:54] We've had guys who would volunteer to help out in other Christmas ways with Christmas dinners or something like that.

[00:30:01] So they're part of a group that was actually out doing something for the whole spreading joy like Danny was talking about that joy factor.

[00:30:07] And they found it very fulfilling and rewarding.

[00:30:10] And like, I feel like I'm a part of something.

[00:30:12] But they hadn't thought of it on their own as something that was suggested as we did group together.

[00:30:17] And so there's just something about needing to be with others.

[00:30:22] You know, God made us to be in community and especially around the holidays.

[00:30:27] Right.

[00:30:27] Right.

[00:30:28] I agree with that.

[00:30:30] Something else just triggered a thought that, again, we didn't talk about.

[00:30:33] You need to set up healthy boundaries for yourself, especially if your perpetrator is part of your family and will be at some of these events that you go to.

[00:30:45] So decide, be proactive.

[00:30:49] Tell whoever's playing, OK, if this person is there, no, I will not feel welcome coming.

[00:30:56] And if you let me know that they're coming, I will not go.

[00:31:00] Some people I've talked to are OK.

[00:31:03] They've made peace enough where they can suffer through it.

[00:31:09] Or they've actually there's been reconciliation there.

[00:31:13] Wonderful if that's true.

[00:31:15] But if it's not, you need to take care of yourself and come up with healthy boundaries.

[00:31:23] And like Rocky, like you said, state your needs.

[00:31:28] It's OK to express what you need.

[00:31:32] And if people are upset, oh, we need the whole family together.

[00:31:34] So we need you and them.

[00:31:36] Well, no, he did stuff.

[00:31:38] Or if they don't know the whole truth, you don't necessarily have to tell them the whole truth.

[00:31:43] It's like, no, there's tell them however much you need to or take the opportunity to tell your story to that person and say, oh, yeah, this is not going to be appropriate.

[00:31:55] If you're going to have them, I can come see you on another time.

[00:31:59] But if they're going to be there, I'm not going to attend.

[00:32:04] And that and they need to honor that.

[00:32:07] And they say, OK, well, I will disinvite them or whatever.

[00:32:11] But then behind your back, suddenly they appear.

[00:32:13] It's like, well, I'm gone.

[00:32:14] You know, keep healthy boundaries because, yeah, people will try to manipulate you into getting what they need or they think that they need.

[00:32:23] Definitely do what you need for your own self.

[00:32:25] Yes, Rocky, please.

[00:32:26] Can I share a personal story along that line?

[00:32:28] And you really caused me to remember something that was amazing because we were we always did a family gathering, but with both sides, cousins.

[00:32:37] And one year we're all adults.

[00:32:39] One of my cousins got remarried and she married a man who in my childhood was one of the perpetrators.

[00:32:46] Wow.

[00:32:46] Because I was pre-puberty.

[00:32:48] They were either in puberty or going through puberty or had already gone through it.

[00:32:52] He was about three or four years older than me.

[00:32:54] And so I found out that he was going to come to the family Christmas get together.

[00:32:59] We do a church service and we go eat.

[00:33:02] And I was really struggling.

[00:33:04] I had not fully forgiven him even with all the work I'd done on that.

[00:33:09] And so I ended up just God said, no, it's important that you go.

[00:33:15] I think that you can just find a safe place, go into surveillance mode if you have to, but find a safe place.

[00:33:20] And we got there then when they showed up, my cousin and this this man, I had this overwhelming emotion and compassion for him because he looked so broken down and sad.

[00:33:33] And I didn't know much about his life because they moved after all that took place.

[00:33:38] But he looked like he'd gone through hell and back.

[00:33:43] And I thought, this is so weird.

[00:33:45] This is a man who abused me and I didn't know how I was going to react.

[00:33:49] With compassion, I realized how incredible it was that God healed me through.

[00:33:58] And I helped.

[00:33:58] I mean, I worked with it.

[00:34:00] God on that.

[00:34:01] It wasn't just him, but there was a lot, as you know, to get through this.

[00:34:05] And he completed it by setting this up and telling me it'll be OK.

[00:34:11] And that was the end of it for me as far as he was concerned.

[00:34:14] So he recognized you.

[00:34:15] So he knew who you were.

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:18] And sheepishly said hello.

[00:34:20] We didn't go there.

[00:34:20] But I realized that I had no hurt in my heart anymore for this man who looked like he'd been drug through the muck all his life.

[00:34:29] And it was actually a place of healing for me.

[00:34:32] And who would have thought at the time?

[00:34:35] Yeah.

[00:34:36] Right.

[00:34:36] Were you able to talk with him or reconcile anything after that?

[00:34:41] Very briefly.

[00:34:44] I just said, so as the evening went on, I said, so you remember some of the things that happened?

[00:34:50] Yeah.

[00:34:51] I have forgiven you.

[00:34:53] And he says, I don't know what to say.

[00:34:55] I said, please just receive what I say.

[00:34:58] And that was it.

[00:34:59] And he just had nothing to say.

[00:35:00] He was just a man who was so broken.

[00:35:03] He is a shell of himself.

[00:35:05] Right.

[00:35:06] And is he still a part of your family?

[00:35:08] He passed away last year.

[00:35:10] Oh, wow.

[00:35:12] Yeah.

[00:35:12] Yeah.

[00:35:12] He passed away.

[00:35:13] It was just so redeeming.

[00:35:16] And here I am.

[00:35:17] You know me.

[00:35:18] I'm Mr. Enthusiasm.

[00:35:20] And I have a guy that's close to my age.

[00:35:22] And he's like a shell of himself.

[00:35:24] And God, I'm so grateful that your redemption was lived out in my life.

[00:35:29] I'm so grateful that I have nothing against this man who did what he did when he was a boy.

[00:35:35] But all the work I put in as a foundation led to that.

[00:35:40] Right.

[00:35:41] So I just wanted to share that.

[00:35:43] And that was a holiday gathering.

[00:35:45] Right.

[00:35:46] So Daniel, anything to add?

[00:35:51] Yeah.

[00:35:52] Just I think that the most important thing to remember is that there's room on the road

[00:35:57] to healing for you and that you are controlling the narrative now.

[00:36:03] Not the ones who abused you, not your past, not the things that you've gone through.

[00:36:08] So you have an opportunity every year to make of the holidays something beautiful and something special for you and for those you love.

[00:36:20] You don't have to continue to see the power of the narrative of your life.

[00:36:26] Maybe the holidays aren't going away.

[00:36:27] They're here every year.

[00:36:29] Right.

[00:36:29] It's, you know, every year you go through, you're going to go through the problematic triggers of seasons.

[00:36:38] If seasons factored into your abuse or the abuse that you experienced.

[00:36:43] So the encouraging thing is the story is yours now.

[00:36:48] Right.

[00:36:49] And you can make something beautiful with what you have.

[00:36:53] And you don't have to see the power of, you know, related to your healing or your recovery or your journey or your story to the demons of the past.

[00:37:08] And, you know, we think about Christmas, you know, in the Christian context with Christmas, you know, angels announced the arrival of the Savior to the shepherds and the lowly people out on the hillside.

[00:37:25] And Christmas didn't start with demons.

[00:37:29] It started with the angels.

[00:37:31] Right.

[00:37:31] And we have an opportunity to allow the better angels of our nature and our recovery to speak to us that joy, that hope that we have around the times that are meant to bring us all these things into focus for us.

[00:37:52] Right.

[00:37:53] For sure.

[00:37:55] Wonderful.

[00:37:56] And no other comments from the audience.

[00:38:02] And anyone else?

[00:38:05] Or should I wrap it up?

[00:38:07] Mike, thanks for having me today.

[00:38:09] I really enjoyed this conversation.

[00:38:11] Great.

[00:38:11] And that brings up a good point.

[00:38:14] How can we find you on socials?

[00:38:16] We'll start with Rocky.

[00:38:18] You'll find me on Facebook and Instagram.

[00:38:22] It's Reconnect Hope or Reconnect Hope dot com is my website.

[00:38:28] Wonderful.

[00:38:29] And we'll have that on the show notes as well.

[00:38:31] Daniel?

[00:38:32] Well, I blog my story at theseashes.wordpress.com.

[00:38:40] And that's where you'll find a lot of my writings there.

[00:38:44] Wonderful.

[00:38:45] And thank you so much for being here with this panel.

[00:38:49] And we try to have panels about once a month.

[00:38:53] So look forward to having you gentlemen here again.

[00:38:57] And again, we'll see you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.

[00:39:07] If you would like to learn more about my coaching with Polar Live Consulting, where I provide one-on-one coaching and group coaching, both with a focus on healing for male survivors, reach out to me at polarliveconsulting.com.

[00:39:22] That is polar spelled P-O-L-A-R.

[00:39:25] I would love to hear from you.

[00:39:27] I want to hear your story.

[00:39:29] If you would like your story featured on this podcast, contact me via my website.

[00:39:34] If you like this podcast, please rate and review because that's how other people can find me.

[00:39:39] And I really want to spread this message of healing and hope to others.

[00:39:43] And remember, you are not alone.

[00:39:46] Healing is possible.

[00:39:47] And the abuse was not your fault.

[00:39:50] Let me repeat that.

[00:39:51] The abuse was not your fault.

[00:39:55] See you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.