46 - Live Interview with Pastor & Coach Mark Collins

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] And welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. My name is Mike Chapman. Thank you for joining us today. Again, we are live with an audience. So if you would like to join us live on future episodes, you can learn more about how to do so at polarlifeconsulting.com slash live. We have audience members here or audience members. You are free to put in Q&A.

[00:00:56] We have the chat room now. You can be as anonymous as you would like. We will only state your name if you manually post it in with your comment or question.

[00:01:07] With me today is Mark Collins. Mark is a husband, father, pastor, and coach with a passion to see Christian men equipped to be the hero God created them to be. He has authored his first book, Life Mastery, Living Life by Design, Not by Default. He has developed and launched his Life Mastery online course and has had the privilege of speaking at conferences throughout the year.

[00:01:38] In over 15 years of working with men as a Christian coach and pastor, Mark has seen hundreds of lives changed and callings unleashed. So welcome to the podcast, Mark. And we will start like we do most episodes is with four questions. So Mark, what is your favorite food memory?

[00:02:05] It's always Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving to me is one of my favorite meals, everything about it. Turkey, stuffing, the dessert, the time with family. It's always my favorite meal. And I try to have my wife convinced to have Thanksgiving dinner twice a year.

[00:02:23] So do you help with any of the time?

[00:02:26] Whatever I can, but I'm not, you know, I'm a serviceable cook, but I'm not as good as she is.

[00:02:33] All the technical work she does.

[00:02:35] Do you at least do sous chef for her?

[00:02:38] Yeah, absolutely. I can cut a vegetable, boil something, you know, those kind of things.

[00:02:43] Yes, it's nice. I have adult children and that's what I do for them. They're in charge. They love to cook. My son, he's had stay at home.

[00:02:54] Thanksgivings, friendsgivings where he invited his friends and he did all the cooking. So I, he loves to do it.

[00:03:01] I love to do it too, but I don't have the time or the patience so much as I've gotten older, but he enjoys doing it. So I will sous chef for him. And like, like you, I'll do the prep work.

[00:03:12] I will. Okay. What do you need? What do you need? Okay. Do this. Okay. I can talk. Just direct me and I will do all the backup, clear things off, wash dishes while he does his work.

[00:03:23] And it's fun and it puts the stress off of me as well. But then he knows he's not alone and has the support. So yeah, I really like that.

[00:03:33] Yeah, absolutely. So what is your favorite Christmas or holiday memory?

[00:03:38] For me, I think it was Christmas the first year with my wife. So my wife, I met her in Southern California where I live.

[00:03:46] And I tell people that when we got married, I married a family because she had two children.

[00:03:51] She had a son who was nine at the time I met her and a daughter who was five, EJ, who was nine, Nicole, who was five.

[00:03:59] So one of the early years of our relationship, we went back home to my parents and they decided to have a, you know, a huge Christmas.

[00:04:05] So I have three sisters. They were there, their families were there and there were presents all over the place.

[00:04:11] And, you know, just they lived in Utah at the time.

[00:04:14] So it had the Christmas feel because of snow and all of those kinds of things in the cold and built gingerbread houses and all of that.

[00:04:22] And even to today, my wife mentions that holiday and how it was such, it just, it felt like a movie Christmas where the family was around and they were making things and the fire was in the fireplace.

[00:04:35] And yeah, it was just a phenomenal time that my parents created for us to have a memory of.

[00:04:41] Oh, that's wonderful. I know those Utah mountains are just gorgeous.

[00:04:47] And I'm sure in the wintertime with all the snow on top.

[00:04:51] Yes, definitely picturesque and would set the mood for sure.

[00:04:55] It is beautiful, but there is a reason why I came to Southern California because it's also cold for quite a few weeks and months of the year.

[00:05:02] Yes, yes, very true. And not so much in California.

[00:05:06] Yeah, that's great.

[00:05:08] Great. Now, I think you're the first pastor I've had.

[00:05:12] So these next two questions are going to be interesting to get your perspective.

[00:05:15] First, what is your favorite church or house of worship memory?

[00:05:19] That's a great question.

[00:05:20] I mean, I like what we do at our community, our church called Authentic Community Church in Buena Park.

[00:05:27] So if I was to take that one out of it, there's a church, you know, because obviously, you know, like your own family or you like them best.

[00:05:36] Favorite church memory. Gosh, that is so interesting.

[00:05:39] I think one of the ones we used to go to a church.

[00:05:41] So we're a community church and, you know, more like 100 people, pretty, you know, small in comparison.

[00:05:47] And before that, my wife and I, where I really started to understand my calling and feel like I felt like I wanted to invest more than just come into service, was at a church in Anaheim area called The Rock.

[00:05:59] And big church, thousands of people there.

[00:06:03] And, you know, neither one's better than the other.

[00:06:05] But the thing that was different is because it was a large church with large budget and opportunities, the holidays and those special event times, Christmas or Mother's Day or Easter or all of the major holidays were just much more of a production.

[00:06:21] And I'm not trying to say that in a bad way, but, you know, you have the whole choir up there and you have the beautiful scenery and, you know, those kind of traditional ones.

[00:06:29] But, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, to be honest, there's one that was even more meaningful.

[00:06:33] I was at a church, part of a church group, leadership group that went to a church in New York called the Brooklyn Tabernacle.

[00:06:41] Well-established church right in the middle of Brooklyn.

[00:06:44] You know, just all sorts of mess and craziness outside their doors, you know, outside of their doors.

[00:06:50] You've got homelessness.

[00:06:51] You've got people, drugs on the street and all of that.

[00:06:54] It's a rough part of it.

[00:06:55] But inside, they just renovated and made it a beautiful tabernacle.

[00:07:01] So there was just beautiful scenery, the paints, the gold on the walls and all that.

[00:07:06] And they're known for their, this Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir is a pretty well-known choir.

[00:07:11] Very well-established.

[00:07:12] And, you know, I don't want to be a nerd on your channel, but the lead pastor of it, I think it's Carol Symbolics, her name, is their lead worship pastor.

[00:07:24] But she can't read music.

[00:07:26] And so the work that they do and knowing her background and how she's not even able to read music, but she's able to direct that choir is, yeah, it was a pretty phenomenal experience being able to kind of, you know, partake in one of their services and see what they do to really invest in our community.

[00:07:42] Right.

[00:07:43] Well, that's wonderful.

[00:07:44] Absolutely.

[00:07:45] Absolutely.

[00:07:45] And now what is your favorite scripture or any inspirational quote that has helped you on your spiritual journey and what about it speaks to you?

[00:07:55] Absolutely.

[00:07:57] I'll go with the one that I usually, it's a life scripture for me.

[00:08:00] And it was one of the foundational scriptures that my ministry, my course, and my book were established off of.

[00:08:07] Romans 12, 2, do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

[00:08:13] And you'll be able to test and improve what God's will is, his good, pleasing, and perfect will.

[00:08:17] At the time, I memorized it.

[00:08:19] I memorized it because I wanted to know his will.

[00:08:21] Well, I didn't know what it took to get there, but, you know, it was one of those kind of times of your Christian walk where, you know, I think there's more for my life than what I'm living.

[00:08:30] Right.

[00:08:30] And I have this scripture that promises it.

[00:08:32] And so I'm memorizing it.

[00:08:34] You know, we could unpack that later, but I memorized it expecting that in just memorizing it, I'd be able to do it, not realizing that there was some instruction in there then about being conformed and being transformed.

[00:08:46] And yeah, I could talk about that all day.

[00:08:48] But yeah, that was a, that was a pivotal scripture as I studied it and understood, you know, my part in it and what I needed to do, what instructions I was given, like God gave all of us.

[00:08:58] But yeah, that is a, that is a big one for me.

[00:09:01] That's huge for my life.

[00:09:03] Wonderful.

[00:09:03] Yes, that's a great verse.

[00:09:05] Now, I know you yourself do not have a history of sexual abuse in your own history.

[00:09:12] However, you work with men who are survivors.

[00:09:16] So please explain what kind of work you do above and beyond just pastoring, because I know you do coaching and other things as well.

[00:09:26] What specifically, how did that work its way into working with this particular population of men with sexual brokenness issues, specifically those who have a history of sexual abuse and assault?

[00:09:41] What got you there?

[00:09:42] And then what kind of things are you doing now?

[00:09:45] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:09:46] I think for me, the ministry really, and what I'm doing as a focus and passion came out of a personal need that I had.

[00:09:52] And it wasn't in that realm as some of the men that you have on your podcast or your community has, in that it wasn't specifically sexual abuse that I had in my own life.

[00:10:03] But it was in the realm of trying to understand the person I was created to be versus what my history told me I was in my own life.

[00:10:11] You know, having a domineering and a dominant father and some other issues and challenges that we could unpack, you know, if it makes sense to do so.

[00:10:17] But at the end of the day, I grew up with an understanding that I wasn't good enough, that I wasn't.

[00:10:22] I didn't measure up to my father for one thing.

[00:10:24] And I felt like I was a person who was on the verge of failure at any time.

[00:10:28] History typically tells you who you are and you live it out in your future unless you change it.

[00:10:33] And so that was kind of my journey.

[00:10:35] And in that place of feeling inadequate as a man, as a husband and trying to make up for it with drugs or sex or all of the things that I used as a medication against it, I needed to be able to find something that showed me I was better than that.

[00:10:51] I knew that there was something on the inside telling me that I was more than the life that I was living and the decisions I was making.

[00:10:57] And in that place, I went for personal development stuff and all the outward stuff that you see on TV, right?

[00:11:02] Those things that you're supposed to do.

[00:11:04] And I take this course.

[00:11:05] And now all of a sudden, I'm a world beater.

[00:11:08] And none of those things were working because I knew at the end of the day, I wasn't that person.

[00:11:11] I wasn't Tony Robbins.

[00:11:13] I wasn't, you know, Dale Carnegie had a win friends and influence people.

[00:11:17] Valid and valuable insights that they have, but they weren't transformation.

[00:11:21] I needed transformation.

[00:11:22] And then as I walked in my Christian walk and started to understand the Bible as instruction, not philosophy, and being able to live out the life.

[00:11:32] We could unpack some of that if you want to talk about that as well.

[00:11:35] But the long and the short of it is I started to understand the word of God in a way that gave me instruction to live out my life.

[00:11:41] And in that place, of course, you know, like with yourself, right, Mike, when you find something amazing or something that's good, you want to share it with people around you.

[00:11:50] And so that was my introduction to men of any community.

[00:11:54] And unfortunately, men out there who have had this issue of previous sexual abuse or those things that they've dealt with in their life, as well as other things.

[00:12:04] Because unfortunately, there's a, you know, you could create a laundry list of challenges and issues that men are dragging into their adulthood from their childhood.

[00:12:12] And unfortunately, sexual abuse and sexual trauma is one of those.

[00:12:17] So it wasn't that I was invested or invited into that community specifically.

[00:12:22] I just wanted to help men.

[00:12:23] I wanted to give them a shortcut to something that took me a long time to get to.

[00:12:27] And in that place, I was able to deal with and help men of multiple areas and challenges and issues, including sexual abuse.

[00:12:38] And so in walking that out, it was just, it was using the same tools that I used, but using them in context with their life.

[00:12:46] Because the thing that I start with is understanding who you're created to be and understanding that who you are isn't the sum total of your experiences, your past, your pains and the hurts that you've walked through.

[00:12:58] That while those are things that are unfortunate and they're things that you have to walk through and be healed from, they won't become your identity unless you allow them to.

[00:13:07] And so for me, it was trying to give men the realization and the understanding that I am created as God created me to be.

[00:13:14] But I've also walked through trauma.

[00:13:16] I've also experienced hurt.

[00:13:17] I've also had these things.

[00:13:19] I tell the people in the men of my program, I say, it's not that God wants to discount your fear or tell you your hurts or your issues or tell you that you just need to get over them.

[00:13:29] Never a philosophy that works, never helps anybody at any time.

[00:13:33] He doesn't tell you that you just need to get past it.

[00:13:36] He just doesn't want it to tell you who you are anymore.

[00:13:39] Right.

[00:13:39] I know in my own healing journey, that was definitely true.

[00:13:44] Realizing that I was not garbage, that that even subconsciously gets programmed into us as survivors, that we were worthless, that basically literally a tissue that was thrown away, used and thrown away.

[00:14:04] And that's how often we would see ourselves from that woundedness perspective, trying to relearn that and see us through God's eyes and see the worthiness that he created us to be, that we are worthy.

[00:14:26] We are beautiful, that we don't need to feel this shame, this guilt, this unworthiness, because he doesn't see any of that.

[00:14:41] He sees the beautiful creation that he made and he wants great things for us as our father.

[00:14:50] Trying to see that through his perspective, it's a journey.

[00:14:53] It still is a journey.

[00:14:54] Not done with it yet, but yeah, that's definitely true, I think, for a lot of survivors dealing with those issues of self-worth and getting beyond what your story is, what your past is, and moving forward to the person you were always meant to be.

[00:15:15] There's no going back to, okay, if none of these horrible things had ever occurred, go to what that person would have been.

[00:15:25] It doesn't quite work that way.

[00:15:26] Yeah.

[00:15:27] It's like the Kinsagi bowls, where it's a shattered bowl, and then they put it together and glue it together with gold, and the brokenness becomes part of the beauty.

[00:15:37] It's like that.

[00:15:39] He shines through the brokenness.

[00:15:41] And then, of course, erasing it would lessen the beauty of his healing work in us.

[00:15:48] So, trying to find that balance of understanding our story, but realizing the potential that God has and designed in each of us.

[00:15:58] I think that's wonderful.

[00:15:59] Please continue.

[00:16:00] And for the guys that I walk with, one of the biggest challenges, which is the challenge for any person at any time, to be totally honest, is so there's an experience that you walk through, whatever that is, you know, the trauma, the pain, the issues, the challenges that you've walked through.

[00:16:14] And there's the meaning that you give it.

[00:16:16] And typically, that meaning has an identity associated with it, right?

[00:16:19] So, like you talked about the shame.

[00:16:20] Certainly, I understand that.

[00:16:22] Not at the level of, I'm sure, some of the men that you've walked with, but it's an understanding of it.

[00:16:27] Whatever the phrase is, it was my fault, or I shouldn't have been there.

[00:16:30] I shouldn't have done that.

[00:16:31] I should have made myself available.

[00:16:32] All these lies that we believe because we put a meaning upon an experience, and that meaning says that it's your fault.

[00:16:40] It's you're to blame, or there's something wrong with you.

[00:16:44] Right.

[00:16:44] And so, part of what I do with the guys that I walk with is, I tell them, life happens in four areas.

[00:16:52] Identity, experience, meaning, and emotion.

[00:16:55] And you either live from your identity, or you live from your experience that creates an identity.

[00:17:00] And so, in that place, we walk back to that place of understanding, okay, well, when did that thing happen?

[00:17:06] And what we do is scripture, right?

[00:17:09] You'll know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

[00:17:11] Right.

[00:17:13] What did you feel?

[00:17:14] What did you believe at that time versus what's the truth?

[00:17:17] That young man or that young woman, that young person, they created an understanding of their situation from their limitation and understanding of that circumstance.

[00:17:26] And whatever it was that they walked through.

[00:17:29] But in being able to take those men, in my case, and walk them back to it and say, okay, well, what's the truth?

[00:17:35] I know what you felt at the time, but what is the truth of it?

[00:17:38] And being able to understand the truth, in many cases, which is really profound and amazing, is it gives them permission to not let go of it actually happening, but letting go of the blame, saying it's my fault.

[00:17:53] I should have been perfect.

[00:17:55] Right.

[00:17:55] I should have been perfect.

[00:17:58] I should have been perfect in that situation because if I was perfect, this wouldn't have happened.

[00:18:02] And just to know that, first off, the ownership isn't on you because the issue isn't yours to own.

[00:18:10] It's the person who perpetrated that thing.

[00:18:14] But in the place of being able to recognize truth, you start to unpack some of the things.

[00:18:17] Oh, well, so if that is the truth, then I don't have to be a person who walks in shame.

[00:18:22] I don't have to be a person that has to be in hiding in different areas of my life.

[00:18:26] There's just so much that gets unpacked and unraveled because an identity that, you know, rightfully, you're a young child with a young child's brain and ability to understand things.

[00:18:37] But in this stage in life, we can go back with greater knowledge, God's guidance, and understand the truth in the situation.

[00:18:46] And in that place, I don't want to seem kind of weird or spiritually or anything, but not hold that young man at fault for the thing that wasn't his fault to begin with.

[00:18:57] And in that place, you're set free in some really profound ways.

[00:19:01] Right.

[00:19:01] That's how I close off each episode of my podcast, that the abuse was not your fault.

[00:19:09] Amen.

[00:19:09] Because that's so common, especially as children, you have a very self-centered focus that's part of brain development.

[00:19:20] Like the little kids that they play peekaboo or they'll hide under a blanket in the middle of the floor thinking, oh, I can't see them.

[00:19:29] I must be invisible because I'm hiding under a blanket.

[00:19:33] That's that egocentric mindset that children have.

[00:19:37] Well, if something bad happens, it must be my fault.

[00:19:40] So mom and dad are getting a divorce.

[00:19:42] Oh, I must have done something to cause that.

[00:19:46] Of course not.

[00:19:46] But that's where the mindset is.

[00:19:49] And for survivors of abuse, that's where you go.

[00:19:54] I must have caused something to make that person do those bad things to me.

[00:20:00] Or either because I didn't do something or because I did do something or a combination.

[00:20:06] So it must be my fault.

[00:20:08] But as an adult, we don't assume that.

[00:20:11] So we need to see things in our adult eyes and realize, no, those things were not our fault.

[00:20:20] We just happen to be available.

[00:20:22] If it wasn't us, it would have been someone else.

[00:20:24] And probably after us, it probably was somebody else realizing, yeah, that's not our fault at all.

[00:20:32] So, yeah, absolutely.

[00:20:34] And the other thing that, unfortunately, I've seen as well is the trust factor.

[00:20:40] Blaming ourselves for our younger self for trusting the individual, whether it was a family member, family friend, somebody in authority, whatever.

[00:20:49] And then, again, being able to walk them back into that place of understanding that your trust isn't your fault.

[00:20:55] It's actually a very appropriate attribute for a young person as they see somebody that they care for, that they have as an authority figure or what have you in their life.

[00:21:05] And the thing that unpacks that I find amazing is that is now all of a sudden their current relationships start to change.

[00:21:12] These men who were really kind of held back and I'm not going to, you know, I'm even married and not engaging in the marriage in a way that is healthy in the relationship.

[00:21:21] Not dysfunctional, but just not engaged, right?

[00:21:24] The guy who's the provider, but just not emotionally available.

[00:21:28] And because you don't want to give that trust away again and being able to see that, no, that, again, that young person did all that they knew to do with their understanding and the relationship.

[00:21:42] The relational dynamic wasn't your fault.

[00:21:46] You weren't the one who was incorrect.

[00:21:49] It was the other person.

[00:21:50] And so in that place, starting to see one of the guys in my course, a guy named Vance, who was that guy who he shares his testimony on my website.

[00:21:58] So I'm not giving away information that he hasn't already done.

[00:22:01] But in that place of unavailability in his marriage and with his children, being able to walk some of those things out and being able to be willing to be vulnerable, be honest, be where he was at.

[00:22:12] And in that place, be engaged in the relationships much more than he was before.

[00:22:18] Right.

[00:22:19] What all are you doing now?

[00:22:21] I know you're coaching and so forth, but it looks like you've got a book out.

[00:22:25] What else is going on with you these days?

[00:22:29] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:30] You know, all of what I do is kind of wrapped around my course.

[00:22:34] I try and get everybody involved in that because that's where you get all of the teaching, the training, the transformational tools that we have.

[00:22:41] And the coaching comes out of that.

[00:22:43] And really, the coaching part of it was finding the thing that was missing in my own journey.

[00:22:47] So my own journey of trying to figure out what I call my freedom journey.

[00:22:51] Another there's a few scriptures I could have given you.

[00:22:53] Another one was in where Jesus says, he who the son says free is free indeed.

[00:22:57] You know, we understand it as a salvation message.

[00:22:59] We just don't, at least in my experience, know it as a lifestyle message because freedom looks like something lived out.

[00:23:06] Right.

[00:23:06] It doesn't look like bondage.

[00:23:07] It doesn't look like dysfunction.

[00:23:09] It doesn't look like struggling with anger and some of the things that we're doing.

[00:23:13] So there's a promise in there for us that I wasn't really living.

[00:23:16] And so in my journey trying to figure that out, you know, using the scripture as a roadmap to the promises of God versus just a nice philosophy that hopefully I'll get someday.

[00:23:24] It was in that place that I kind of, you know, I was in my own journey.

[00:23:27] I figured it out.

[00:23:28] It was amazing.

[00:23:29] And I was so happy about it.

[00:23:30] But the one thing that I would want for the people that I help was the shortcut.

[00:23:36] The thing that took me years to kind of figure it out and kind of piece it together and kind of live it out in my own life and create those spiritual habits that make it actually happen.

[00:23:45] And that's where the coaching came in.

[00:23:47] It wasn't because I felt like I was a coach.

[00:23:49] I've not really been in sports or those kind of things.

[00:23:51] But what I wanted to do was, hey, how could I get you help where you what would take a year would take maybe six months or what would take three months could take one conversation.

[00:23:59] You know, those points that I had where I had to kind of figure it out.

[00:24:03] And that's great.

[00:24:04] Right.

[00:24:04] You always like you with you in your ministry.

[00:24:06] It's not a problem being a forerunner.

[00:24:07] We enjoy it.

[00:24:08] But the one thing we want to give is a shortcut to success, to healing, into freedom.

[00:24:13] And so that's where the coaching came in.

[00:24:14] And then the book off of that really was it's kind of like I'm sure I don't know if you have an iPhone or an Android, but, you know, I love my Android.

[00:24:25] Yeah.

[00:24:26] Well, any device you get nowadays, it comes with a quick start guide.

[00:24:30] Right.

[00:24:31] They'll have the owner's manual that you can get that has all the bells and the whistles and the attributes and everything that's amazing about it.

[00:24:37] You get all of that.

[00:24:38] But in order for you to get started right away, they have the quick start guide.

[00:24:42] Right.

[00:24:42] So I can get my phone up and running, you know, in one city.

[00:24:45] What button do I push to get the thing on?

[00:24:47] And it's like how long do you have to push it?

[00:24:49] Happens with cars.

[00:24:49] Or what kind of hand gymnastics you have to do to do a screenshot or whatever.

[00:24:55] Yeah.

[00:24:55] All those basics.

[00:24:56] Exactly.

[00:24:56] It happened with my camera.

[00:24:57] It happened with my microphone.

[00:24:58] I mean, everything comes with a quick start guide nowadays, which is awesome.

[00:25:01] So that was what the book was.

[00:25:03] If before people got into the full fledged course and frankly, to be able to have another resource that's out there for people to engage at whatever level they want.

[00:25:10] I had what is life mastery living life by design, not by default.

[00:25:13] It's what I consider the quick start guide to kind of understanding the life mastery journey and having some tangible tools to actually live it out.

[00:25:21] Right.

[00:25:21] Wonderful.

[00:25:22] Wonderful.

[00:25:23] So any final words for you think survivors would want to hear or any final thoughts you'd like to share?

[00:25:33] Yeah, it's and it's the same thought I came in with, which is you're more than where you're at and you're absolutely more than your past.

[00:25:41] The one thing I want to the mantra that I have, the message that I carry with me everywhere for men and specifically men that are the survivors of abuse is that you're more than your past.

[00:25:53] You're more than the things that you've walked through.

[00:25:55] And there is a path to that place of freedom that you're hoping for or you've maybe given up on, but is still out there that there's a path forward, but a path towards freedom, not just managing the things that you've walked through.

[00:26:11] I'm sorry for your past and your pain and the issues you've walked through.

[00:26:15] My desire and I'm sure yours, Mike, is not that you don't recognize them and know that they were there, but that they don't tell you who you are anymore.

[00:26:24] Right.

[00:26:25] Yeah, they certainly do not define us for sure.

[00:26:28] Thank you so much for these encouraging words, Mark.

[00:26:32] And thank you so much for coming on my podcast.

[00:26:35] We will see you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.

[00:26:43] If you would like to learn more about my coaching with Polar Live Consulting, where I provide one-on-one coaching and group coaching, both with a focus on healing for male survivors, reach out to me at polarliveconsulting.com.

[00:26:58] That is polar spelled P-O-L-A-R.

[00:27:01] I would love to hear from you.

[00:27:03] I want to hear your story.

[00:27:05] If you would like your story featured on this podcast, contact me via my website.

[00:27:09] If you like this podcast, please rate and review because that's how other people can find me.

[00:27:15] And I really want to spread this message of healing and hope to others.

[00:27:18] And remember, you are not alone.

[00:27:21] Healing is possible and the abuse was not your fault.

[00:27:26] Let me repeat that.

[00:27:27] The abuse was not your fault.

[00:27:31] See you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.

[00:27:34] Healing for Male Survivors podcast.

[00:27:35] Healing for Male Survivors