42 - Panel: Triggers

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone and the abuse was not your fault. My name is Mike Chapman. I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] Mike Chapman And welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. I'm Mike Chapman, your host, and we have another special episode this week. We have a panel discussion with the topic of triggers. What kind of things trigger you? Have you ever been really triggered to the point where nothing really helped? And what did you do? Those kinds of things because all of us face triggers.

[00:00:56] Mike Chapman Not only survivors, but everyone can be triggered by different things. But as survivors, oftentimes we can get severely triggered by things in our environment, things in our surroundings, or just memories that randomly pop up. So with me today, I've got three of my former guests. We've got Daniel Eichelberger and Luke Wiersma.

[00:01:26] Dan Carlson, all prior guests from my podcast and also prior guests on our last panel discussion too. So I'm so glad they are here again to discuss things. And a brief introduction, one or two sentences. We'll start with Daniel.

[00:01:47] Daniel Eichelberger I'm Daniel Eichelberger. I'm Daniel Eichelberger. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse from the time that I was fairly young until 14 years old. And I'm glad to be here today.

[00:01:57] Mike Chapman Glad to have you. And Luke.

[00:01:59] Luke Wiersma I'm a survivor as well. I was late from the ages of 16 to 18. I'm a leader for SCSE's Men's Meeting now.

[00:02:09] Mike Chapman Excellent. And Dan Carlson.

[00:02:13] Dan Carlson Yeah, Dan Carlson, Tucson, Arizona, HGAC technician. He's been father for grandfather of two and childhood sexual abuse survivor.

[00:02:25] Mike Chapman And welcome.

[00:02:26] Mike Chapman So if you have listened to my Memorial Day special, I talked about a story a few months ago where I was triggered severely at a husband material leaders retreat and mentioned about what I did and how I handled it.

[00:02:47] Mike Chapman I got severely triggered. And it even took me time to realize that I was being severely triggered. It just I felt weird. I felt ill at ease. And it took time to even realize, oh, crap, I'm being triggered right now.

[00:03:04] Mike Chapman In fact, it was it was well into I think on my way, leaving the restaurant, I'm realizing, oh, crap, I'm really triggered, aren't I?

[00:03:12] Mike Chapman And it took a whole bunch of time to get to the point where I even recognized I was in a trigger. And then it was all that evening and into the next morning, trying to deal with that trigger.

[00:03:26] Mike Chapman So let me pose a question to each of you. Do you remember a time in your own past in your own stories when you were severely triggered? And what led up to it?

[00:03:42] Mike Chapman What did you do? What do you think caused this? And what did you do to get out of it? And how do you resolve it? What happened? And whoever wants to go first?

[00:03:54] Mike Chapman Yeah, I remember it wasn't that long ago. That happened. You know, I'm still not sure what led up to it. Honestly, I'm still trying to figure that out. But I remember the feelings. Well,

[00:04:08] Mike Chapman So where were you and what was leading up to it?

[00:04:11] Mike Chapman Oh, I was at home. I had a slight argument, I guess, with somebody the night before. And I think my anxiety was high from that. And usually, I mean, to be honest, usually I smoke marijuana to calm down. It made it worse.

[00:04:30] Mike Chapman Oh, uh huh.

[00:04:32] Mike Chapman Oh, uh, yeah. So that whole rest of the day, the whole day, actually, it's just for my fiancee that's just talking down to a point where I could start processing again. Because my mind was just it was a

[00:04:48] Mike Chapman Oh, yeah, it's a trigger tornado.

[00:04:53] Mike Chapman Right. Yeah, that's something that drew calls it in the husband's year as well trigger tornadoes when not just a trigger. It's like a super duper major trigger.

[00:05:03] Mike Chapman After I finally came down. Um, I mean, the feeling alone just that depressed that my anxiety was still high my walls were still up for a couple of days.

[00:05:16] Mike Chapman It still took time for them to even come down. That was just a lot of breathing techniques. I was used at doing that daily. The 333 rule as well, which is three objects you an object you see an object or something you hear moving a part of your body.

[00:05:38] Mike Chapman And that helped bring me back down to reality as well. As well as the 555, breathe in five seconds, hold five seconds, breathe out five seconds and that helped as well.

[00:05:54] Mike Chapman Yeah, that's similar to what I what I've been taught is box breathing, where yes, you do in for a count of four, but you count while you do it. So you go in for a count of four, hold count of four, out count of four.

[00:06:09] Mike Chapman And then you repeat. And yeah, something it's really good for spiraling thoughts and it's good at calming and then the fact that you're counting and using that part of your brain that helps to calm that part of the brain when you're actually counting along with the breathing that any kind of breathing exercise does that oxygen can release stress and it is your brain

[00:06:37] Mike Chapman The oxygen that it needs to process things and calm down. And so so yeah, that sounds like a good strategy. But you said you were anxious the day before and

[00:06:52] Mike Chapman So I was anxious the day before I went to sleep thinking I was okay. I thought I had calmed down.

[00:07:03] Mike Chapman Enough and I went to sleep fine. I woke up. It was I was actually watching the TV program. And as soon as I started this, like this failing thought without was just at first I was doubting everything. Everything I know is true. I was just doubting it all. So I knew I was already in the spiral.

[00:07:27] Mike Chapman Right.

[00:07:29] Mike Chapman I was like, oh crap, you know, this is this isn't good. And tried to calm myself down when that wasn't working.

[00:07:36] Mike Chapman I'm sure that helps. So yeah, reaching out to others. That's a good strategy. So don't lone wolf that reach out to others, especially someone who knows the type of things that you go through. And that helped my case as well talking some of the other men there at that retreat.

[00:07:58] Mike Chapman And talking it out with some of them. It helped to resolve it right away, but it helps. And it was good to know that I was loved and cared for in the middle of it. So Dan or Daniel, anything you'd like to share? Any examples?

[00:08:13] Mike Chapman It was just too much for me to talk about. Too little clarity on it. But the last time I've been, I think last night and today is actually coming out of a trigger that lasted at least two months. It was literally crawling out of my skin and with anxiety and shame and just dissociative. I have a lot of good tools. I was using them.

[00:08:42] Mike Chapman So what kind of tools were you using?

[00:08:44] Mike Chapman Well, I mean, obviously I've been leaning into Jesus big time. Trying to stay in the word. Trying to stay in prayer. Speaking about the things of the Lord with other people.

[00:08:56] Mike Chapman Did you talk to the other people about the fact that you were being triggered?

[00:09:00] Mike Chapman Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, you're on husband material. I'm pretty prolific in trying to be honest about where I'm at when I post something or when I talk with somebody.

[00:09:14] Mike Chapman I think that I do a pretty good job of processing externally at this point. And, you know, things like your group here and husband material have been just godsends in that regard.

[00:09:28] So I'm always showing up for you, Mike.

[00:09:31] Mike Chapman Yeah.

[00:09:33] Mike Chapman Yeah.

[00:09:35] Mike Chapman Yeah.

[00:09:36] Mike Chapman Yeah. Daniel, anything you'd like to add?

[00:09:38] Daniel Daniel Daniel Sure. I think when I think of triggers, there are probably two ways that I can be triggered related to the child and sexual abuse I experienced. And one of those is triggers to feel anxiety and then triggers to feel arousal. So there's two different types of triggers that I actually experienced related to that.

[00:10:03] Mike Chapman So I just want to just for the sake of your question, the immediate thing that comes to mind is more of a trigger towards anxiety. And this happened, it was probably a little over a year ago, I was going through an old box of letters. When I was a teenager, I used to write lots of letters to friends back in the days before email.

[00:10:25] Mike Chapman So, but I had a letter. I came across a letter in my box that was from one of the friends of the family, an older man who had abused me, that he had written to me.

[00:10:40] Mike Chapman I remember taking the letter out of the box and it kind of catching my breath when I saw his name. And I opened it and I kind of read through it. It was just a very general type of letter.

[00:10:49] Mike Chapman And then I noticed this sinking feeling just creeping over me, a very, very physical feeling creeping over me that just felt like, I don't know, somebody had just put a hundred pound weighted vest on my body.

[00:11:04] Mike Chapman I remember just feeling like I need to get out of the house. I need to go. I went to Walmart of all places just to get my mind off of what I was thinking about.

[00:11:18] Mike Chapman Of course, the feeling went with me. It wasn't quite that easy.

[00:11:29] Mike Chapman However, what I found most helpful at that time and in other times, because when I go into a trigger like that, it can actually last. It's a very emotional trigger.

[00:11:42] Mike Chapman And it can last a few days and actually give me physical symptoms for a few days afterwards.

[00:11:49] Mike Chapman And so one is that I remind myself you have been here before and this load will lift. Be patient.

[00:11:58] Mike Chapman I do grounding exercises like Luke and you have talked about, which is breathing.

[00:12:04] Mike Chapman And I am a very extroverted person in a lot of ways. So I find a lot of help through making me, I mean, reaching out and connecting with safe people when I'm feeling very emotional like that.

[00:12:19] Mike Chapman So I remember telling my wife, this is affecting me. And then I reached out to some of my friends to kind of, you know, talk through what I was feeling.

[00:12:29] Mike Chapman And eventually, it does lift, you know, the result of the trigger passes that violent, I would call it an emotionally violent trigger. Okay, I didn't feel violent, but it was emotionally violent to me, was triggered by that letter that I didn't realize I still had kept in a box of other letters from my youth.

[00:12:50] Mike Chapman So that sounds like another one of those trigger tornadoes that Luke mentioned and drew his mention.

[00:12:57] Mike Chapman What specific things have you noticed are triggering to you? The example I gave the Memorial Day episode was we were at a restaurant and everyone, we have like 15 guys there,

[00:13:13] Mike Chapman And they sat us on a big rectangular set of tables, half booth, half chairs, and we were against a wall. So all of the conversations were just that sound was just bouncing off the wall and coming back on us.

[00:13:33] Mike Chapman And that I call it, yeah, the cacophony of male voices, just all intermixed with it overwhelmed my system.

[00:13:43] Mike Chapman And that's what started the trigger. For me, that makes sense because it was similar to the trapping and abuses where there was lots of men and lots of voices. So it brought me right back there.

[00:13:57] Mike Chapman I know I've been at Christian events where they had the music extremely loud, and I got triggered there as well, just from the loud noise.

[00:14:09] Mike Chapman I know HM retreat back in California, I think it was the second retreat. Someone came in the cabin when I was sleeping relatively early compared to everyone else and turned on lights because they needed to find something. I just got so mad. And then it took realizing, oh, I was mad. I mean, so what he turned on the lights, he needed to find something.

[00:14:34] Mike Chapman But the fact that I got interrupted with the sleep with strong lights brought me back to the triggering because I know if they were recording it with old 16 millimeter film, they would have these huge spotlights too, because you need lots of lighting for the film to work in those things unless you were outside.

[00:14:59] Mike Chapman Or if it was nighttime, you would need lights. So they'd be very, very bright lights. And I think, yeah, that triggered me as well. And it makes sense.

[00:15:12] Mike Chapman So what specific things have you found that have triggered you in the past? And do you have you determined how that relates to your own story?

[00:15:23] Mike Chapman Specifically fireworks, but it's really any loud banging sound actually. In my story for basically for those who haven't heard there's I remember a banging sound like someone banging hard on the metal while it was being raped. So I you know that is just one little thing fireworks or any loud noise.

[00:15:49] Mike Chapman That makes sense.

[00:15:51] Mike Chapman Right.

[00:15:53] Mike Chapman Even like you were talking, Mike, just being in a restaurant can trigger me because it's so many so much noise, it becomes overwhelming.

[00:16:02] Mike Chapman Right. Yeah. And I've been another I don't know what it was because I've been in loud noisy restaurants before and hasn't really bothered me. But that particular time, just the level and because I think it echoed off the wall.

[00:16:19] Mike Chapman Then if we were in the middle of the restaurant, I might have not been triggered as bad.

[00:16:24] Mike Chapman I also noticed, finally figured out that yeah, just driving in the car for long distances, more than like 20 minutes or so, I start getting triggered. And the longer the car ride, the more triggered I get.

[00:16:38] Mike Chapman And never really realized that before. But yeah, I start getting antsy. It's like, I really don't want to be there. But I've got to get from A to B.

[00:16:53] Mike Chapman And usually I'm in a situation where I'm the one always driving. So anytime I have a chance to let somebody else drive. Yes, please drive. I love it when other people drive. But yeah, that gets triggering as well. Dan or Daniel?

[00:17:08] Dan Daniel For me, that would be smell. Certain smells will be very triggering to me. I'll give you some examples.

[00:17:18] Mike Chapman The smell of a damp forest. The smell of an antifreeze leak in a vehicle, you know, in the cabin of a vehicle, you know, the smell of an antifreeze leak coming through the vents.

[00:17:36] Mike Chapman The smell of the smell of vanilla, when somebody is making French toast. All these things are connected to those who abuse me. So they can be very, very triggering and evocative.

[00:17:53] Mike Chapman Smells are a very strong trigger. And that they, I don't know what it is, but they tie in to that core part of the brain and accesses a lot of memories.

[00:18:11] Mike Chapman That's why when I interview, I do all these positive things, which are also really triggers. It's like all these positive memories.

[00:18:19] Mike Chapman Like your food memory. What's a food memory? That's related to taste and smell, but usually positive. So you can have positive triggers as well.

[00:18:27] Mike Chapman And so like certain smells bring me right back to a really wonderful event as well.

[00:18:32] Mike Chapman Smells, they activate memory really quickly. It's like, like the smell of a new box of Crayolas or opening up a new container of Play-Doh.

[00:18:47] Mike Chapman Yes.

[00:18:47] Mike Chapman I mean, they'll bring you back such strong memories or the smell of Elmer's glue, you know, all those childhood memories that just bring you right back.

[00:18:58] Mike Chapman It's like, oh, okay. But yeah, smells both good and bad can be triggering and taste as well.

[00:19:05] Mike Chapman I know I have an upcoming episode might be posted. I don't know when this comes out if it's going to be before or after, but on weird symptoms related to the CSA and smells and tastes and so forth are common theme in that as well.

[00:19:25] Mike Chapman And yes, certain foods often it's the texture of foods that are triggering. I didn't like it. But then I realized, oh, okay. Yeah, it's related. Dan?

[00:19:39] Mike Chapman I had a lot of those sensory type triggers back in the day. And I got to tell you that I went through those two and a half years where I was severely acting out and pretty much diving into the depths of my own depravity. And by the time I got done doing that, things sexual phases me anymore.

[00:20:04] Mike Chapman I don't, I don't get triggered and remember being abused or something like that. Most of what I deal with is the way somebody's talking to me, or my own mind trying to extrapolate somebody's thinking about me.

[00:20:20] Mike Chapman And then I can get into an internal loop of self-condemnation and disassociation. And if I, back where I was five years ago, it was driving me further into my interest in fetish and sex and the relational dynamics. And I would have just dove into that stuff.

[00:20:44] Mike Chapman Right.

[00:20:45] Mike Chapman Not completely consciously, but consciously. You know what I'm saying?

[00:20:50] Mike Chapman Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So moving on, if you feel yourself getting triggered or what advice could you give to someone who, once they feel triggered, what strategies, what coping skills would you recommend for that person?

[00:21:12] Mike Chapman We've mentioned a few things already, like the different breathing techniques that Luke and I mentioned. That can be helpful. What are some other strategies for people when they get triggered?

[00:21:30] Mike Chapman Yeah, but you know, the one thing that I try to do as much as possible is, is I try to look at triggers that would normally send me into something to make myself feel better. I try to just lay all of that down and look at Jesus and worship him. It's not a matter of not doing the stuff that my triggers were leading me to. It's a matter of, oh, I get a chance to go be with Jesus. So it works.

[00:21:58] Mike Chapman Even in this last two months when I've never really felt very good at all. It's kept me from the brink of despair, for sure.

[00:22:07] Mike Chapman Yeah, I would second that during that big trigger at that weekend. Spent time with God and just myself and my thoughts. What I call it is also just riding the way.

[00:22:22] Mike Chapman That when you get triggered, it's not always something you can stop. You just need to ride through it, process it, talk through it with people, whatever you need to do while you're experiencing it to get through the other side.

[00:22:40] Mike Chapman Yeah, that's the other thing. You can pick up the phone or text somebody and you can make contact with somebody who's been supportive in the past. You usually get something that's familiar and comforting from them and bring you back to yourself.

[00:22:57] Mike Chapman Exactly. That's why husband material has the concept of triads. So you have, it's similar to an accountability partner or prayer partner. It's groups of three or more that you meet weekly and have each other's contact information.

[00:23:13] Mike Chapman So if any one of you is having a difficult time, you have these people who are committed to be available to reach out. And that's why it's more than one because one might be busy. Hopefully the other one or the other two are not busy and you can reach out to them if needed.

[00:23:29] Mike Chapman And that's been very helpful. Knowing that there's someone I can call and knowing I will be there for them if they ever need it as well. So yeah, having someone to reach out to and building those relationships before it's needed. And having that there for sure. Yeah, very helpful. But yeah, sometimes you can't necessarily stop it. I know my therapist similar to what Luke said earlier about

[00:24:00] Mike Chapman I'm talking about like something that I mean for things that are blue in the room or things basically if you're dissociating to bring you back into reality. That doesn't always work. It's like a I'm seeing blue, blue, blue, blue, blue, fine. Still going through it doesn't help. Because if you're going to trigger your trigger, you're triggered. Daniel, do you have anything to add to that?

[00:24:23] Daniel Yeah, I probably have a little bit of a different take on this. I agree with everything you you both have said. And like I said,

[00:24:29] I think we talked earlier about those grounding exercises that are very important and crucial but

[00:24:33] Mike Chapman And that's why I have panels because we have all

[00:24:36] Michael Chapman Yeah, I guess so

[00:24:42] you kind of hit on this a little bit, Mike, but sometimes when you're trying to avoid something, it makes it worse. Right? And so the thing about triggers are they are deeply personal, uncomfortable.

[00:24:57] Michael Chapman They rob us of a sense of self control at times. And it's just then make you kind of feel powerless, and kind of under the whim of the memory or of the abuser. Still, they're like a lasting legacy.

[00:25:15] Michael Chapman They are an inheritance bequeathed to you, if you will, from the abuse. Right? So one thing that's been helpful for me is rather than looking at triggers as your enemy, you start to kind of see them as something positive. And here's what I mean by that. It's not the trigger itself. It's our reaction to it. I think a lot of times that distresses us.

[00:25:43] Michael Chapman Like I said, I can feel like I've lost control of my emotions. Or I don't have the strength to rise above how I'm feeling or etc. Right? But I think my take on it is that you learn to respect your triggers, because they are pointing to a boundary that had been violated in your life.

[00:26:05] Michael Chapman And when you understand what that boundary is, you start to understand that triggers are actually a reminder of the importance of needful boundaries in your life.

[00:26:16] Michael Chapman And keeping those needful boundaries in your life. Like I said, there's I think there's a negative aspect to them. And usually it's our reaction to them.

[00:26:25] Michael Chapman Right.

[00:26:25] Michael Chapman I don't think that I don't think they're just vestiges or outcroppings of our wounding. They're also from them can come strength, I guess is what I'm saying.

[00:26:34] Michael Chapman Right.

[00:26:35] Michael Chapman I do those, like I said, I do those grounding exercises. I feel, you know, more to Dan's point here is I feel very close. I feel closer to God in a way.

[00:26:46] Michael Chapman In those moments when I'm triggered, because I fly to him for support and help.

[00:26:52] Michael Chapman Yes.

[00:26:52] Michael Chapman Or I fly to his people. Right?

[00:26:54] Michael Chapman Yeah.

[00:26:55] Michael Chapman And there is an aspect of worship. All of that's true. But also, I try not to sweat the fact that I'm having them.

[00:27:02] Michael Chapman Right.

[00:27:03] Michael Chapman They go with the territory. If I will allow them, they can speak to me about how important bouncers are and still are in my life.

[00:27:13] Michael Chapman And I think you kind of mentioned it as well. They do point to wounds. To wounds that might need healing or speaking up. It's like, hey, this is something that I might need to work on some more. If you're getting triggered in a certain area. Maybe it's because this is. Yeah.

[00:27:34] Michael Chapman Amen.

[00:27:36] Michael Chapman And I know, also, it is a catalyst to help us process emotions. Oftentimes, emotion related to the abuse that we may not have processed. I know I went through all kinds of sadness. Went through. I let the feelings flow in the midst of the triggers. And feelings just started coming up.

[00:28:01] Michael Chapman And I allowed the feelings to come in and out and through and experiencing those instead of shaving them down. I think that's a great point.

[00:28:12] Michael Chapman So important.

[00:28:14] Michael Chapman Yes. Luke, would you like to add anything to this?

[00:28:17] Michael Chapman I mean, I agree with Daniel that we shouldn't we shouldn't look at the triggers as our enemies. But I also believe it's crucial to have a crisis plan as well. In case it does get to worst case scenario where you need to go to the hospital in order to work through it. And you never know. I just look at it as you never know.

[00:28:43] Michael Chapman I know I do have my therapist. I can call. Yeah, he's really good. Okay, it's really, really bad. He texts me and I will be there.

[00:28:56] Michael Chapman And that's helpful. I'm not just like, okay, that's something that set something up in a couple days, but sometimes he'll like get on and talk to me. But yeah, having a plan, knowing before it happens what to do when it happens. It's more when than if for survivors. And like I mentioned, having a support network, knowing who you can contact. Those are great points, Luke.

[00:29:24] Michael Chapman Absolutely.

[00:29:24] Michael Chapman Like I said, partners, or triads like we have in husband material, anything like that. So you know, okay, this happens. Who am I going to call? Who are safe people to call? If it's really bad, what kind of therapist or life coach or trusted leader or church leader, someone that you can talk to about this who will be there.

[00:29:51] Michael Chapman And knows your history knows what's going on and can be a good support for you. Her babies are also a good fallback. I know my dog, George is wonderful. If I need to release some tension or just give him some love or just sit next to him.

[00:30:12] Michael Chapman And yeah, he's really good at drawing a lot of emotions out from me. So any final thoughts as we're winding down? Dan, we'll start with you.

[00:30:22] Michael Chapman So last night was an incident where I guess you could say I was triggered. I mean, I was from the time that I told my wife on Sunday that I was going to talk to her Monday after work. I was in a state of agitation. And, you know, I find myself projecting features that don't exist yet. A lot. Negative ones, of course.

[00:30:44] Michael Chapman But I managed. It took me almost two hours to leave my house and go over there and visit her. I almost talked myself out of it. I did everything I could to.

[00:30:56] Michael Chapman But I finally made it over there and I stayed with her for an hour and a half and went through a lot of the stuff I figured was going to happen. But I was a little better prepared for it and I didn't run, which is what I usually do. But I was I'm just remembering now my body.

[00:31:13] Michael Chapman During that whole conversation, I was practically writhing. I was like movements, you know, didn't know what to do with my hands, kept rubbing my knees, rubbing my shoulders, putting my face in my hands. All of this was basically helping me to not run. But it was in a really, really triggered state. And she's like, what is wrong with you? And I'm like, just having these conversations with you scares the shit out of me.

[00:31:42] Michael Chapman And I know it's not rational, but it does. And I'm like, but Jesus is giving me the strength to where I could actually come over here and do this. That's, you know, even though the meeting didn't go particularly well, and she said a lot of things that feared my shame, and also made me see how bad she was hurting. I came out of it, went into it asking Jesus just to something I'm like, I've been in this long, long, dark hallway for

[00:32:12] Michael Chapman For so long now. And it's like, I just need some relief. And I think I think it's on the way. And the big thing of how it's on the way is that I'm gaining the courage to face my triggers. That's really gratifying to know.

[00:32:26] Michael Chapman Right. Looks good. Thank you for sharing that. Luke, any final thoughts?

[00:32:30] Michael Chapman Yeah, Dan kind of touched on it. He when he was taught when he was talking, I was thinking, what am I going to say? What am I going to say? Like, but he when he was talking to I heard him say about rationale. A lot of people don't understand that is when we're triggered. Nothing about us is rational. Our thoughts, our feelings, our emotions, nothing about what we do is going to be rational.

[00:32:54] Luke Chapman Because we're in that fight or flight mode. We're in that mode of survival. I think that's something too, that just I thought that needed to be put out there.

[00:33:06] Luke Chapman We need to we need to be able to face our triggers that I, you know, God said that we're going to suffer and we're going to go through trials. But that he, you know, he has overcome the world in us.

[00:33:19] Luke Chapman Right.

[00:33:20] Luke Chapman I think we have to we have to keep, you know, it's good to have boundaries, but it's also good to take them down when they're no longer necessary.

[00:33:28] Luke Chapman Right.

[00:33:30] Luke Chapman Even if they still feel kind of necessary, but you know, they aren't, you know,

[00:33:35] Luke Chapman Right.

[00:33:36] Luke Chapman That's the irrationality of it. Like we keep our boundaries up when they shouldn't be. That's so irrational, but.

[00:33:44] Luke Chapman And learning how to be vulnerable and take down those boundaries.

[00:33:48] Luke Chapman Right.

[00:33:48] Luke Chapman That's one of the harder parts for me is learning to be vulnerable.

[00:33:52] Luke Chapman Right.

[00:33:54] Luke Chapman I'm a very anti social, I have social anxiety disorder.

[00:33:59] Luke Chapman Right.

[00:33:59] Luke Chapman I don't know how to be able to.

[00:34:01] Luke Chapman Right.

[00:34:02] Luke Chapman Hey, but you know something, bro, that doesn't even though it feels like it's just part of you. It doesn't define you.

[00:34:11] Luke Chapman No.

[00:34:11] Luke Chapman Like if you like, I know you're a Christian, right?

[00:34:14] Luke Chapman Yeah.

[00:34:15] Luke Chapman Oh yeah.

[00:34:16] Luke Chapman Alright bro.

[00:34:16] Luke Chapman So when you're surrendered to Christ, you can do stuff that would make the part of you that has social anxiety disorder.

[00:34:25] Luke Chapman Go what the hell is going on here?

[00:34:27] Luke Chapman We'll have you interact with people in just miraculous ways.

[00:34:31] Luke Chapman And that's the stuff we can look forward to.

[00:34:35] Luke Chapman That we know what our weaknesses are.

[00:34:37] Luke Chapman And that's when Jesus comes and he does something crazy.

[00:34:42] Luke Chapman While we're being weak, blesses everybody what we can do when we surrender.

[00:34:50] Luke Chapman So I'm just saying none of this stuff that we're dealing with is the definition of us.

[00:34:55] Luke Chapman We are God's beloved sons and then us as well please.

[00:35:00] Luke Chapman Great comments, Dan.

[00:35:03] Luke Chapman Appreciate that.

[00:35:03] Luke Chapman Daniel Any final thoughts?

[00:35:06] Luke Chapman Just that I think that like I said, it's good to have a healthy respect for the things that trigger us.

[00:35:13] Luke Chapman To me they point not just to wounds but also to needful boundaries in our lives.

[00:35:20] Luke Chapman They help us if we will allow them to process emotions like you mentioned Mike,

[00:35:27] Luke Chapman A very necessary part of our journeys to wholeness in relation to childhood sexual abuse.

[00:35:35] Luke Chapman I believe the Lord can take what the enemy has meant for evil in our lives and make something good come out of it.

[00:35:42] Luke Chapman And sometimes it's hard to see that in the middle of a trigger.

[00:35:45] Luke Chapman But as we process them and as we understand the truth that they're pointing to about our experiences in our lives,

[00:35:51] Luke Chapman I think we will find good come out of that.

[00:35:54] Luke Chapman And we'll be able to help others as they go through their triggers as well.

[00:35:59] Luke Chapman Right. Good point.

[00:36:00] Luke Chapman And with that, thank you gentlemen for being with us this week on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.

[00:36:07] Luke Chapman And for those who want to join us on future podcasts live, find out more about that on my website,

[00:36:15] Luke Chapman Polar Life Consulting dot com slash live.

[00:36:19] Luke Chapman We'll see you next time.

[00:36:22] Luke Chapman If you would like to learn more about my coaching with Polar Life Consulting,

[00:36:27] Luke Chapman Where I provide one on one coaching and group coaching,

[00:36:30] Luke Chapman Both with a focus on healing for male survivors,

[00:36:34] Luke Chapman Reach out to me at PolarLifeConsulting dot com.

[00:36:37] Luke Chapman That is polar spelled P-O-L-A-R.

[00:36:40] Luke Chapman I would love to hear from you.

[00:36:42] Luke Chapman I want to hear your story.

[00:36:44] Luke Chapman If you would like your story featured on this podcast,

[00:36:47] Luke Chapman Contact me via my website.

[00:36:49] Luke Chapman If you like this podcast, please rate and review

[00:36:52] Luke Chapman Because that's how other people can find me.

[00:36:54] Luke Chapman And I really want to spread this message of healing and hope to others.

[00:36:58] Luke Chapman And remember, you are not alone.

[00:37:01] Luke Chapman Healing is possible and the abuse was not your fault.

[00:37:05] Luke Chapman Let me repeat that.

[00:37:07] Luke Chapman The abuse was not your fault.

[00:37:10] Luke Chapman See you next time on the Healing for Male Survivors podcast.

[00:37:14] Luke Chapman The 맛있.

[00:37:14] Marco Aksurta monsieur

[00:37:15] Luke Chapman The獄Jet In the Turkish Kennel