36 - Live interview with “Dovid”

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. This is a podcast for male survivors of sexual abuse and assault, whether as a child or as an adult. Know that you are not alone in the abuse was not your fault.

[00:00:18] My name is Mike Chapman, I'm a certified recovery life coach and also a survivor. Let's find hope and healing together.

[00:00:28] Welcome to the Healing for Male Survivors podcast. I'm Mike Chapman, your host, glad you could be here with us and today as my special guest we have Dovid. Dovid is a survivor and is here to share his story.

[00:00:48] I will intro him in a moment and I also have an audience here if you would ever like to join with us live for the podcast. You can find out more information on my website polarlifeconsulting.com slash live for all the details on how to join us and let me give you the intro to Dovid.

[00:01:18] Dovid grew up in 7 California as the middle child in a family of 11. His mother died when he was only 7. He strolled with unwanted same sex attraction since he was about 12 or so and he's done a significant amount of healing and recovery work including participation in Jewish programs as well as

[00:01:46] JIM, JC, JB and uncouncing with guard your eyes which is a Jewish organization that helps people who struggle with porn addiction and he's finishing up his masters of social work and I welcome Dovid to the podcast whose here to share his story.

[00:02:09] And like we do with all episodes we start with four questions. Now it's time for four questions that part of the podcast when we get to know our guests a bit better by asking a few questions let's go.

[00:02:25] It feels like Passover they do four questions in Passover. Yeah, okay good to know all right so first question what is your favorite food memory?

[00:02:38] So my favorite food memory is on the Jewish holiday of porn kind of very different purposes but it kind of similar to Halloween in the sense that we everybody dresses up and they get out gifts of a food and for the kids it's largely candy.

[00:02:57] And the amount of candy that we would have in my house was insane and just sitting there and you know gobbling up the candy feeling sick afterwards.

[00:03:08] You know as an adult I look back at it and I say I can't believe that I would you know as even allow to eat that amount of candy but it you know brings a smile to my face thinking about those days.

[00:03:21] I.

[00:03:23] Right what is your favorite Christmas or holiday memory of course as a Jewish guy didn't celebrate much that Christmas but I did have a guest who was raised you wish and he did have a Christmas memory, but yeah he grew it in there like.

[00:03:41] If I were to kind of throw in the Christmas component I mean just for me just observing all the lights and kind of going to people say our neighbors homes who had the most cool displays.

[00:03:52] For my own holiday memory was definitely the holiday of Hanukkah lighting the menorah it was just a fun time a year my dad would come would come home early.

[00:04:02] You know part of my story he was never around but you know he would come home early and be with us during those moments we had a neighbor that would come by and give out little.

[00:04:12] I think you know probably a booze about a quarter to each of the kids but we felt like we were rich and just the family time spending time was really nice and on Hanukkah so that's.

[00:04:21] That's my memory for that wonderful yeah any holidays where there's a lot of family togetherness that's always special what is your favorite church or house of worship memory.

[00:04:35] So it's it's just a funny memory that I think about all the time there was this guy I mean as a kid he was probably you know we thought he was probably about 150 years old he was probably in his 80s at the time and he was like a a growtual man and I tended to talk during services always get just by the other people there.

[00:04:56] I would come to synagogue with the the sports section of the newspaper and it was like my little bride as I would walk in I would kind of hand it to him and I knew that for that service I want to get screaming.

[00:05:09] So it's a good memory another memory I mean the actual sitting in services I don't say I have I don't have bad memories of it but I don't have particularly fun memories of it.

[00:05:19] Another funny memory was it was a holiday and all the adults had been it was kind of some some alcohol on the table and it's kids we went around and we made our own little concoction and.

[00:05:34] We we convinced one of my friends one of my classmates to drink it a couple hours later his dad was so angry at us.

[00:05:41] I guess I'm getting in trouble he was probably 13 years old or something but it was a good memory.

[00:05:49] Well, reminds me old who's seal ball movie where yours might in hours we're potential children that she was possibly going to become stepmother to.

[00:06:01] Did the all kinds of hard liquor into her simple screwdriver mixed drink and then she got extremely drunk at the dinner table all these kids.

[00:06:14] And yeah, yeah it reminds me of that that's funny okay and.

[00:06:22] What is your favorite scripture or any inspirational quote that has helped you on your spiritual journey and what about it speaks to you.

[00:06:32] So there are two quotes that I had thought about one is it said from Psalms where it says cast it on the shoulders.

[00:06:40] I don't know how you translate in English, I you know because I know it from the Hebrew but cast it on on God shoulders that he will sustain you that when I really loved because.

[00:06:52] I struggled with God for a long time and when I guess when I refound God I guess the best way to say it I realize that I can I can.

[00:07:01] I think that the day no matter how much pain or suffering I'm going through I could cast it on his shoulders and know that he will he will carry it so that was one quote the other quote is from.

[00:07:15] I think that's a great way to say it.

[00:07:45] new we can stop fresh we're good to go. Well that's great. While you were talking

[00:07:50] we got a comment from one of our audience members they said I love that

[00:07:55] talking about your scripture verse that you mentioned yeah he said that's the

[00:07:59] ticket cast it on his shoulders cast it on cod shoulders and that's true

[00:08:04] instead of burning ourselves with it very true let's see and that brings us to your

[00:08:11] full story whatever that is and I know I tell most my guests yeah our

[00:08:18] stories kind of can jump around on a mind does go however you need in telling

[00:08:24] your story and then end up where you are in your healing journey and what

[00:08:30] things have helped you with your healing journey and what things have not helped

[00:08:36] you and then what are the things that you're doing today so we'll go from there.

[00:08:42] I didn't have it all prepared in an exactly in a note form so I may actually jump around

[00:08:48] I grew up in California I was one of 11 children at the middle of 11

[00:08:54] children it was a great life at first I don't have much memory from

[00:09:00] before seven years old I have a kind of a couple of spotty little pieces of memory but as

[00:09:04] far as I knew it was a great life my parents were both involved in the synagogue and

[00:09:10] the school were active members of the community it was just a lot of fun one day when

[00:09:17] I was seven years old my mom suddenly passed away my whole life changed without knowing

[00:09:25] that my life was going to totally be different at first I didn't even

[00:09:29] realize it as a major shift I think I'd probably experience the major shift around 11

[00:09:37] 12 years old it was just the life I knew my dad suddenly went from a guy raising a large family

[00:09:44] of 11 children to suddenly being the sole person in charge of raising this family for that first

[00:09:50] year it was it was a party people would come over all the time they'd bring gifts it was a

[00:09:55] joyful life fast forward about a year and a half later and I think my dad desperately needed

[00:10:02] support needed help in raising raising the family he decided that it was time to

[00:10:10] remarry he found some crazy woman who is willing to marry a guy with 11 children

[00:10:15] that's just like the movie yours by an arse only she had a bunch of kids and he had a bunch of

[00:10:19] kids so yeah my dad had us watch this movie I think he was trying to get us to accept

[00:10:26] my stepmother this movie called Sarah Plain and Tall I still have it we watched so many times

[00:10:33] I still it was with Glenn closed and Christopher walk and it's still my my dad got remarried

[00:10:39] it was just a very chaotic life after that because I think in a large family dealing with a new

[00:10:46] stepmother it just it wasn't she wasn't fully accepted by some siblings she was accepted by others

[00:10:53] and it was just a kind of a total chaos and kind of even in a large family there is that middle child

[00:10:59] experience and I think I kind of fit into that middle child role kind of not knowing exactly where it

[00:11:06] was then I would say I began to struggle it wasn't it wasn't outward struggles I didn't

[00:11:11] I never miss behaved I think I just began to struggle with who I am and where I belong we're

[00:11:18] where do I fit in I struggled with recognizing my place amongst my friends I've struggled

[00:11:24] with recognizing my place amongst my family but I didn't have clear words for it at that time

[00:11:30] it was just I I became super aware of myself maybe a little bit literally so fast forward a little

[00:11:38] bit longer I'm now 11 or 12 years old I was having a sleepover at a friend's home we it was

[00:11:46] of the kind of like any any kids you know a lot of kids do we were we were sleeping out camping out in

[00:11:51] the den there was windows on the door is nothing you know nothing no privacy if you will in

[00:11:58] middle of the night I suddenly I felt this friend touching me and I realized that something's wrong

[00:12:04] but I didn't know what it began a period of essentially sexual abuse with this friend for a period

[00:12:12] of probably two or three years he would be jury as well or around your age so he was he

[00:12:19] with a little bit older than me I mean within probably a year old than me I loved it I'll be honest

[00:12:25] I at first I loved it because I was being seen I was being cared for and to be quite frank it was

[00:12:32] fun and and kind of the the the the forbidden was an exciting experience you know that that was the beginning

[00:12:42] of you know of my sexual abuse I would seek it out he would seek it out and and from time to time

[00:12:48] we would promise that we're never going to do this again and then it would happen again

[00:12:52] separate from that there was I don't recall how this began but there were a couple family members that

[00:13:00] I'll tie it all together but there were a couple family members that wanted to play house so to speak and I was taught

[00:13:07] kind of a little early this was probably around also around that same time I don't remember

[00:13:13] I don't recall what happened first and what began that process that was more touching than anything

[00:13:19] anything more serious that went on probably I'm guessing probably for a period of two years just as

[00:13:27] quickly as it came if this appeared and was never spoken to it's spoken about again at one point during that process

[00:13:34] I desperately wanted it to I wanted it to come out and so I said to I said to one of them you know

[00:13:42] oh you're doing this great but not as good as this this friend of mine and he said what and then I immediately

[00:13:49] shut down and you know zip my lips and wasn't going to talk about it again because I panicked

[00:13:56] you know and I wonder if I would have said something if it would have helped me on my journey but

[00:14:01] essentially it didn't turns out what I found out a number of years later is there was an even older guy in the

[00:14:09] community he was probably I'm gonna guess he was his late you know late teens early twenties that had

[00:14:17] molested a number of boys in the community he had essentially molested somebody who had

[00:14:25] connected with my with my family members and he had molested somebody else who connected with this

[00:14:29] class in the in mind so when I think of who is you know when I think of who molested me I actually don't think of it

[00:14:36] they have either of the guys who touched me I think of this guy as the guy even though he never touched me

[00:14:42] be kind of exactly that children when they experience abuse they don't necessarily know how to process that

[00:14:52] so they end up reenacting that with others not knowing the damage it's doing

[00:15:01] and it took me a number of years to accept that I was sexually abused you know I looked at it as oh

[00:15:10] I played house oh I it was with a friend it was consensual it was this it was that at the end of the day

[00:15:17] to be quite honest it messed with my mind and in some ways still messes with my mind today

[00:15:23] not in some ways in many ways it still messes with my mind today so that ended when I went away for school

[00:15:29] and I went away at 16 yeah 16 years old I went away to study abroad that part of the sexual abuse

[00:15:39] was over but I found that I was I was in an all-boy school and I found that I kept on

[00:15:46] noticing my teachers and my teachers were I kind of want to go go back a step one of the things that was

[00:15:55] there was a guy in the community that I used to call dad and he used to be a very upset at me and he

[00:16:01] said no you have a dad yeah your dad is your dad is your dad and I'd be like no no no you're dad

[00:16:06] you're dad and I was like of course I have a dad but you're dad and it was it was I didn't

[00:16:13] understand that either at the time but it definitely played a big role in my life because I

[00:16:19] didn't have the safety with my father we we butted heads on everything and this guy

[00:16:25] we ended up having a great relationship and a great interaction and I felt a certain safety with him

[00:16:30] back to the to being a setting abroad so here I am in the in the school system it's an all-boy

[00:16:38] school you know from time to time guys would be like hey did you see that girl did you check her out

[00:16:43] you know and I would be sitting there thinking didn't notice her but I'm checking out that guy

[00:16:50] and and I would I would be noticing all the guys and I thought there's something wrong here

[00:16:56] I didn't I was still young and I was I did grow up in a very sheltered community so I didn't

[00:17:00] I didn't know not that I didn't know that there were gay people who people identified as

[00:17:03] gay and things of that sort but it wasn't really something on my radar and so I just saw it as

[00:17:09] there's something wrong and whatever it's you know just like you have a headache this is another

[00:17:15] thing I have to deal with and it'll just be what it will be but but as I went through the school years

[00:17:21] I just couldn't get my eyes off of my teachers and these were male teachers and they all fit the

[00:17:27] image of what I had envisioned a father to be they were they were nurturing they were

[00:17:33] they fit the look they you know in our community they had parents they they were

[00:17:39] you know generally overweight and if just fit the image of the way and and if they didn't then

[00:17:46] they then there was no no attraction to those people at all and again I still didn't fully understand

[00:17:51] that I didn't it didn't process anything can be other than why can't I get them out of my head

[00:17:56] so you were attracted to what they would call a bear body type absolutely and I it's funny

[00:18:03] later in my in my story I began to understand what a bear was you know I don't know

[00:18:08] to what extent I can be explicit here or not I'm not looking for we we we give an e-rating and occasionally

[00:18:15] people use for for a fan of the which sometimes you need to when we talk about what we talk about

[00:18:21] so I'm not looking for a fan of you can be as explicit as you would like and then if I

[00:18:26] feel the need to edit I will edit it out and I have what happened was a couple times I got drunk

[00:18:33] and and only years later did I know like I didn't even think I knew what I had said to these people

[00:18:38] three separate times basically I told them that I'm struggling with this and I'm attracted to them

[00:18:44] but they never told me nobody called me out and so I so it wasn't something I was even a weird

[00:18:49] until later in my life that became really an ongoing struggle throughout my life and I dealt with

[00:18:56] a significant amount of masturbation at the time you know I didn't know I sorry I did experience

[00:19:03] looking at pornography once when I was back when I was 15 a friend of mine called me into we had

[00:19:09] a little library and he's like hey come he comes in it locks the door and he shows me this corn magazine

[00:19:14] and he's flipping through it and I'm and I'm like not looking at any of the one of them

[00:19:18] and I was busy looking at the guys and and that was kind of also when I realized like

[00:19:23] something's really off here and it was just an ongoing struggle my hope was I'll get married

[00:19:29] and it'll all sort of self out in our community we get married young I was at the I was considered

[00:19:36] old because I got married at 26 and look at the people were getting married at 23 and so I was

[00:19:42] considered to be an old guy and very picky I think I wanted to be safe in my relationship

[00:19:48] I got married and everything was fine or so I thought for a while I would say fear the

[00:19:53] quickly my wife and I we're kind of we would but heads a lot of it was my inner struggles my

[00:20:01] my fears my insecurities and largely dealing with my my my my my struggles with my attraction

[00:20:08] I loved her and I do love her but I was struggling with wanting to be with her

[00:20:14] I was able to make a work we have five children so it wasn't an issue of

[00:20:21] being able to enjoy the experience but my heart wasn't fully there for the next 10 years

[00:20:28] I all I knew was I struggled but I didn't know much more than that then I discovered I came across

[00:20:33] a a porn on pornographic website at one point at that point my entire life changed

[00:20:38] I lost tons of weight I was busy looking at porn at night dealing with other things

[00:20:43] yeah my wife thought like wow he's finally getting healthy you know life life life is great

[00:20:49] I kind of just got lost in that world I would look at porn I would mastery it wherever I could

[00:20:54] I was chatting with people online it's interesting because I didn't cross the the actual

[00:21:00] I didn't actually connect with anybody in person at that point but I would get together and say

[00:21:05] I would meet up with the people and say okay we're gonna meet up at this time

[00:21:10] And then I would not wouldn't show it ironically my wife was one of the things she was upset at me at the end was

[00:21:17] You know like how can you tell somebody you're gonna be there not show up? I was like do you want me to show up?

[00:21:22] You know she didn't you know she was more upset than I was I was the whole thing was happening

[00:21:28] So that went on for a couple years and I and I I was just dying inside

[00:21:33] I had nobody to talk to it was something I was swore I was gonna go to my grave

[00:21:37] I just didn't you know I I didn't know where to go you where to go with it or what to do with it

[00:21:41] It was a really kind of just

[00:21:44] Totally consuming I wasn't able to function properly at work. I wasn't able to function properly at home

[00:21:49] You know, it was just I just an ongoing struggle but let me ask you

[00:21:54] When was the first time you talked to anyone about

[00:21:58] the abuse

[00:21:59] either with the touching from plain house or the

[00:22:03] The friend that started at the sleepover when did you actually divulge that to anyone that happened

[00:22:11] Probably interestingly enough probably only about seven

[00:22:15] Seven years ago, so I'm kind of leading into

[00:22:18] Kind of kind of how things changed. Yeah. I'm jumping the gun and you're getting there right? Yeah

[00:22:25] Okay, please continue

[00:22:27] So what happened was it it got out of control and I knew it was getting out of control

[00:22:32] I knew that if I don't I do something about this whatever

[00:22:36] situations that I've screwed up with my kids already is going to be worse

[00:22:40] Whatever you know whatever relationship I have with my wife is going to get worse

[00:22:43] I'm you know, I'm basically cross about the cross the line

[00:22:46] I had specific guys that I was going to connect with and I knew that if I don't do something

[00:22:51] Fast it's going to be a problem. So I reached out to an organization

[00:22:55] They're now a defunct Jewish organization to take to get some guidance. I think Jewish Orthodox men

[00:23:01] The only thing with homosexuality or something of that sort

[00:23:03] I don't remember the exact name of the organization so I reached out to them and they were

[00:23:10] In retrospect they gave me actually some great great guidance

[00:23:13] But the one thing that they made a big mistake was they wanted to know my name

[00:23:16] There was no way I was going to share who I was because no one was gonna know my story

[00:23:21] And so I shared a little bit of my story without saying who I was

[00:23:26] But they said that in order to connect me with an actual therapist and

[00:23:30] To get some guidance there was nobody nothing that they can do. That was it

[00:23:35] So I was on my own before the next two years

[00:23:39] I mean, I

[00:23:39] So they said those those next two years is when really things got it got out of control

[00:23:44] I decided

[00:23:45] unrelated to this that I would get involved in a 12 step program to

[00:23:49] You know for food because I was saying you know my way had come back and so I

[00:23:54] Ended up going to this 12 step program. I walked into the meeting and then there was me and 30 women

[00:24:01] And I knew that

[00:24:03] This was obviously not the place for me

[00:24:06] But I sat through that meeting and I came back and I went in Google 12 step programs for men or something like that

[00:24:12] One of the the questionnaires that I had come across was sex a hollocks anonymous and I was like

[00:24:18] I wonder if if I'm dealing with with that and the hands of the questions and they kind of said

[00:24:24] Yeah, go to go to your local meeting so I decided to go to the local meeting. I was terrified

[00:24:31] I'm clearly an orthodox Jew

[00:24:33] I'm also active in my community

[00:24:36] I was terrified that this is you know, it's a I'm going to be outed in this experience

[00:24:41] But it had gotten way out of control

[00:24:44] I went to that meeting and interestingly enough. There was another orthodox Jew there

[00:24:48] So we kind of we kind of connected

[00:24:51] Over that and I found a sense of a connection they difference was he wasn't dealing with same sex attraction related issues

[00:24:59] I was dealing with a lot of that stuff and

[00:25:01] He told me about you know kind of these online meetings

[00:25:05] There was specifically I think it still exists these online 12 step meetings for

[00:25:10] For same sex attraction related stuff I ended up listening to that

[00:25:14] I put out put on an email to the you know the five people who were willing to be sponsors for them didn't respond

[00:25:21] And one guy responded to this guy's credit he he ultimately saved my life

[00:25:25] He spoke to me every single day

[00:25:28] For an hour for a year and I'm not exaggerating every single day for an hour for a year with no charge

[00:25:35] You know, he was the first person I shared with any of the you know any of the the abuse

[00:25:39] I shared with him my my struggles my fetishes and everything and he his response to each of them was

[00:25:45] Okay

[00:25:46] Like he he wasn't phased by any of it and he had told me about a podcast which was going on

[00:25:53] Called shadow as wings ministry podcast. I don't know if he has a different name for it

[00:25:59] And I listened to that guy and I said

[00:26:02] I've got to speak to him and

[00:26:04] For me it was a big statement because he's a Christian guy and I'm a Jewish guy

[00:26:09] and to seek a seek support from a Christian guy and not just that he's Christian. He's a religious Christian guy

[00:26:17] And so it was a definitely a big step

[00:26:20] But I called him he never in general never picks up his phone but

[00:26:25] God have provided that phone that time I called him he picked up his phone

[00:26:29] And we ended up having a half an hour conversation and

[00:26:33] You know, and I've worked with him really for the past seven years

[00:26:36] I spent a lot of time kind of processing

[00:26:39] Processing the abuse processing how it in more about how it impacted me and how my need for

[00:26:46] You know father figure in my life how how I need for a sense of belonging

[00:26:51] You know how all of this played a role in my life. We spent a lot of time that processing that and and understanding how that is what kind of led me

[00:27:00] To seeking out men and

[00:27:02] And seeking out the father figures in my life. I don't know if you'll remember

[00:27:06] You know the first time I connected with you. Yeah, it was

[00:27:10] I've I've learned how to

[00:27:13] seek out those who I feel have that nurturing kind and caring part of them. You know that was

[00:27:20] You know, it's always been something important in my life as I

[00:27:24] began my healing journey. I participated in a number of organizations as I mentioned there was this Jewish

[00:27:30] organization which I didn't really get too involved with. I participated in the brothers road community and didn't

[00:27:36] You know all the programs that they've done. I've been in touch with the

[00:27:41] Not not so much, but I've been in touch with the

[00:27:43] Husband material community a little bit

[00:27:45] But but but I would I realize there's having a community of brothers

[00:27:49] A community of people that can support me on my journey and I can support them was

[00:27:55] Very critical going back to this person that I spoke with for a year and so each time I asked them like how can I pay him for his time

[00:28:02] He said to me you'll you'll pay it back. You'll pay it forward at some point

[00:28:06] Yeah, I was like okay, but I you know I do want to pay you for your time

[00:28:10] And so I once bought him a

[00:28:12] A video set of something that he wanted to you know, I kind of pennies

[00:28:15] But when when when the time came he said to me and now it's your time to pay it forward

[00:28:21] I want you to you know find some way to pay it forward

[00:28:23] So I reached out to this organization. There's a Jewish organization called guard your eyes

[00:28:28] I know that there is other Christian ones that are similar where it's basically

[00:28:33] Helping people who are struggling with pornography and sex addiction related stuff

[00:28:38] So I volunteered to help out in their

[00:28:41] SSA department and help guys who are dealing with same-sex attraction related issues that counseling

[00:28:50] Pushed me along my own journey

[00:28:52] Eventually convinced me to get my

[00:28:55] Masters and social work so I can really help people in you know from a more professional standpoint

[00:29:01] I guess that brings me to today where where I am

[00:29:04] Do I still struggle with the same sex attraction?

[00:29:07] It's still it's still there. It's still present but I but I know I see it for what it is

[00:29:13] It doesn't overtake my life

[00:29:15] I have a beautiful relationship with my wife. I have a great relationship with my kids

[00:29:20] I've even repaired my relationship with my dad. I would say we're cordial

[00:29:24] No, we're more than cordial where we get along but I also know the boundaries of

[00:29:29] What I I know the boundaries I guess the best way to say it

[00:29:33] Allow him to be a part of my life but at the same time

[00:29:36] Not to take over parts and I think he's come around as well and that's that's my story in a nutshell

[00:29:43] You never got to when you started telling other people about the abuse history

[00:29:49] So so that that began

[00:29:52] Mostly it began that first year when I was speaking to this guy

[00:29:56] You know it began there

[00:29:58] I feel he that's what it happened but you didn't quite mention it. Yeah, so I saw I shared it with him then

[00:30:03] He helped me a process and understand that

[00:30:07] This wasn't me

[00:30:09] Wanting wanting the abuse

[00:30:12] This wasn't you know

[00:30:13] I didn't need to own that and that I can I can understand it as

[00:30:18] Yes this friend of mine was innocent. I don't have to hate my friend because you know

[00:30:22] I felt like

[00:30:24] Everybody has to hate yeah hate their abuser but I didn't have to hate my friend but I I could also

[00:30:29] You know

[00:30:29] Feel compassion for the for the guy who abused him. I do hope that that guy has I mean

[00:30:36] I believe he was arrested at some point

[00:30:38] I believe he served some time in gel, but I could it I could have compassion for him too

[00:30:43] He had a very challenging life, you know, and he any suffered and so so I I spoke a lot about it

[00:30:48] With the with this guy for that year. I did a lot of work around it with the the Christian therapist that I had worked with

[00:30:54] I did some work around it at the brothers wrote community

[00:30:58] I told my family it was interesting I

[00:31:01] There was a a guy in the

[00:31:04] Jewish community who had gotten

[00:31:06] Who had gotten arrested and then later committed suicide and he had molested he was like a child the children's author and he was very

[00:31:13] well connected and he ultimately he molested a number of children on our family

[00:31:18] Chad I shared a little bit my perspective was that this guy is a dangerous guy and he belongs to me

[00:31:24] He does early he needs to be locked up but

[00:31:27] I was able to have compassion for him. That was a lot largely connected with the work that I had done

[00:31:31] And my family was just not getting it

[00:31:34] And so I at some point I just didn't know what

[00:31:38] I need to share you know these family members need to know what they what they did to me and how they hurt me and also need to know that

[00:31:44] I don't I don't need a hide

[00:31:46] Where I am let them deal with their their their problems and their their shame and so that was probably about

[00:31:53] Four years ago that I shared it with my family, but I don't talk about it that much definitely not in the Jewish community

[00:32:00] That's why I agreed to come up with this podcast

[00:32:04] It was a very it's been a very interesting journey and you mentioned about

[00:32:10] I have to look up the name of the book but a family member of mine wrote a book

[00:32:15] cold not what I expected

[00:32:17] And this is a book he he was sexually abused

[00:32:22] by his nanny for

[00:32:25] I think ten years

[00:32:27] And he talks about his life

[00:32:29] It's a great book. It's very easy read and he talks about his life, his life and his abuse and then the

[00:32:37] The court case and kind of his whole story associated with that yeah so that's

[00:32:43] That's the story in a nutshell and you know I think the you know if I were to give a message to other people who have

[00:32:51] dealt with sexual abuse is you know you say this on your on your podcast is that you know

[00:32:56] It's not your fault, you know that's that's one thing. It's not your fault

[00:33:00] But I would say another thing is that you can heal it's a long journey

[00:33:04] But it but you can heal and the for me the biggest thing that helped me heal

[00:33:09] Is not holding on to onto resentments

[00:33:12] The more I let go of the resentment to those that had

[00:33:16] both physically abused me sexually abused me emotionally abused me the more I let go of them

[00:33:23] the more peace I found

[00:33:26] And and yes at times I struggle with that I still struggle with repercussions from it

[00:33:32] I do struggle with some anxiety from it fears of the future and things of that sort are still

[00:33:38] Things that play a play a role in my life but at the same time I know who I am and I know where I am and I know that I'm

[00:33:45] You know able to help others and and hopefully prevent it from others for others from happening as well

[00:33:52] Well, excellent. I know you mentioned the same sex attraction. I know that Doug Carpenter

[00:34:00] had shared on one of Drew's podcast on husband material about the concept of arousal versus desire

[00:34:07] that

[00:34:08] and part of Doug's book

[00:34:11] Secret Shame

[00:34:13] Which is written specifically for survivors of

[00:34:17] male sexual abuse of males survivors of childhood sexual abuse like us and

[00:34:25] He talks about that that the

[00:34:28] arousal template

[00:34:30] is kind of stamped on us from the abuse and it's very different from what we may desire

[00:34:39] Yes, and

[00:34:41] that where that struggle comes in dealing with those things that would arousas

[00:34:49] Absolutely. I mean, I I've spoken with Doug about this actually in the past. Yeah, there's no there's no question that

[00:34:56] in today's society

[00:34:57] And again, I don't know enough on your show whether what I'm going to say is okay or not

[00:35:03] But in today's society there's a lot of

[00:35:06] There's a lot of you know embrace embrace your identity

[00:35:09] You know, oh you you know you you identify as a as a same sex

[00:35:14] Trakit then you're gay and if you don't identify as that then you're not and

[00:35:18] You know it's like everybody needs to fit into a box

[00:35:21] And needs to belong somewhere and and I kind of see that as

[00:35:26] If you want to identify that way by all means that's not my business for me

[00:35:31] I believe that

[00:35:33] the way I was created was

[00:35:36] to have typical healthy

[00:35:39] Sexual experiences sexual connection and

[00:35:42] Relationships and that's where for me that that was what was the most important but my desire changed as a result of the abuse

[00:35:51] And and I found

[00:35:53] In enjoyment of that and I and I tell people

[00:35:56] Doesn't mean you're you don't as you heal from the abuse doesn't mean you don't longer enjoy

[00:36:02] What you once enjoyed and I tell this to people

[00:36:05] You know about the you know Jewish people who are

[00:36:08] Becoming religious and they start keeping kosher. It doesn't mean you hate ham

[00:36:13] You know it just means that you made a decision not to eat it

[00:36:17] Because according to Jewish

[00:36:19] Principles we don't we don't need it and so

[00:36:21] Doesn't mean you have to suddenly be like oh I'm disgusted by it no

[00:36:25] Your desire may still be there yeah

[00:36:27] Is our your arousal may still be there you still may enjoy it

[00:36:30] But is it what you really desire and and as you split it out

[00:36:34] It also helps with the healing process because you see it and you say okay

[00:36:39] I'm feeling this but what I really want in my heart and heart is this was God want for me this, you know and you're able to

[00:36:47] a lot that

[00:36:49] More free that way

[00:36:51] Right now

[00:36:53] Digging into the arousal part

[00:36:55] You mentioned you like the bear body type which both of us actually fit into

[00:37:02] To be honest did you ever

[00:37:04] Figure out where that came from what were the seeds of that did that fit the template

[00:37:11] Of this friend or did you ever dig into that because I know I've worked with people and talk with people

[00:37:18] Who yes sometimes that was the body shape of one or more abusers or there's sometimes

[00:37:25] Story behind it sometimes not so it interestingly enough the abusers were not yeah

[00:37:32] Bears at all

[00:37:34] However for me the the reason why the bear body type kind of stuck out for me is because

[00:37:43] That is what the

[00:37:46] Healthy male in my community obviously at the end of the day when you're looking at a bear on a computer

[00:37:52] You're looking at some guy who's probably whose life is probably

[00:37:56] You know messed up and they're struggling and dealing with a lot of other issues but in our mind

[00:38:02] They come across a certain way and in my mind the

[00:38:07] You know what what happened once when I began looking at pornography you know I remember it kind of going to a site of

[00:38:13] The opposite you know

[00:38:15] No here on their body kind of super skinny kind of all the all the things and and I was like

[00:38:21] Okay, this is interesting but it wasn't it wasn't fully captivating me like it caught me because it was

[00:38:28] inappropriate material but it didn't right it didn't suck me in and then I came across

[00:38:33] We honestly came across a specific website and I was like oh I found my people them and you know and that's where I

[00:38:40] I you know I got stuck and I think that that a lot of what it what it was

[00:38:45] was a need for that father figure because

[00:38:49] The beer the beer kind of gave the you know and it wasn't it wasn't younger bears it was older bears

[00:38:55] It was you know it was people who could be a father figure it wasn't a a

[00:38:58] 25-year-old 30-year-old it was it was a you know 67-year-old you know or from a 56-year-old

[00:39:05] Because because those people could have been my father figure so even though the sexual abuse

[00:39:11] opened up the I believe this sexual abuse opened up the the pathway for the the the the

[00:39:19] Experience the need for that father figure was it was the other experience and being in an all men's

[00:39:25] school being surrounded by

[00:39:27] Harry Burley men in addition in our community we also have the ritual bath and so standing make it around

[00:39:35] Harry Burley men definitely

[00:39:38] Expanded that that that lust desire and that template but you know being a good kid I never they didn't act out on it

[00:39:45] And only later did I begin to fully understand what it was that makes me understand

[00:39:51] And that's where I kind of got stuck

[00:39:55] Thank you for sharing that and reminder to our audience members that are here live

[00:40:02] Feel free to put your questions into the Q&A section and again you can be as anonymous as you would like

[00:40:09] We will only say your name if you manually type it in I do a few comments

[00:40:16] One said wow man you are really laying it down

[00:40:21] Really good narrative and

[00:40:24] The same person says praise God

[00:40:27] so yes

[00:40:29] great message

[00:40:31] Definitely and

[00:40:33] don't know if there's any other questions coming in

[00:40:37] And you kind of already shared some final words some final thoughts personally I did want to share because we've met in person

[00:40:47] and

[00:40:48] talked online and so forth

[00:40:50] uh, but

[00:40:52] And talked about my own Jewish heritage we found out that I am

[00:40:56] Genetically Jewish on my mother's side, but we did not know

[00:41:00] Until just recently just a few years ago through DNA testing and now me trying to

[00:41:07] honor that

[00:41:08] Those roots and we've had discussions about that so it's been very fascinating

[00:41:14] I did want to thank you that

[00:41:18] David had mailed me a little miniature honica

[00:41:23] set which I absolutely cherish I thought that was so wonderful

[00:41:29] That I used this last December for

[00:41:34] Monica and that was just very very special I also have my

[00:41:40] The Jewish word is Yamica, but it's also called a what a kipper

[00:41:47] Kippa kippa that actually my wife gave that to me for Christmas present

[00:41:52] uh

[00:41:54] that I have now a very nice hand-sown

[00:42:00] Nice burgundy color for some reason

[00:42:04] But yeah very lovely so trying to honor that part of my own heritage and

[00:42:09] I wanted to thank you for being a part of that

[00:42:13] And I appreciate that

[00:42:15] No other questions so any additional final thoughts

[00:42:20] You know I mean I think it's a I just wish you know I pray for the day that

[00:42:26] This is a you know these the

[00:42:29] The struggles and anybody struggles are in the past and that people can find true healing

[00:42:36] And you know and just to say again I it's a journey

[00:42:40] But you know people can you know finding the support and finding people who will help you through it

[00:42:48] Is critical and

[00:42:50] There's nothing to be ashamed about you know finding people who you can share openly

[00:42:54] I think that's the key thing is finding people you can share openly with that they won't judge you

[00:42:59] And but at the same time they'll hold you accountable and push you along

[00:43:03] Right, I've heard so often in so many different communities that

[00:43:08] healing and recovery

[00:43:10] happens in

[00:43:12] Community and that is so key

[00:43:15] So we all need to find our

[00:43:17] community

[00:43:18] where we can heal and

[00:43:21] Not lone wolf it because that

[00:43:25] won't help

[00:43:27] Connecting with others helps with the healing and

[00:43:31] With that thank you so much

[00:43:33] Dovet for being with us and hope to see you all next time on the

[00:43:40] Healing for male survivors

[00:43:45] If you would like to learn more about my coaching with polar live consulting where I provide one on one coaching and group coaching

[00:43:53] Both with a focus on healing for males survivors reach out to me at polarlife-consulting.com

[00:43:59] That is polar spelled

[00:44:01] P-O-L-A-R

[00:44:03] I would love to hear from you

[00:44:05] I want to hear your story if you would like your story featured on this podcast

[00:44:09] Contact me via my website

[00:44:11] If you like this podcast please rate and review because that's how other people can find me

[00:44:17] And I really want to spread this message of healing and hope to others

[00:44:21] And remember you are not alone

[00:44:23] Healing is possible and the abuse was not your fault

[00:44:28] Love you repeat that the abuse was not your fault

[00:44:33] See you next time on the healing for male survivors by test

[00:44:39] You