Episode #64 | Mark Johnson "Voice of the Buffs"

[00:00:10] Thank you for listening to the Finding Neverland Podcast. Finding Neverland is a Christian metalcore band based in Denver, Colorado. This episode was broadcasted live.

[00:00:22] All right. Welcome. We're here. Thank you so much. Welcome, everybody. This is the Finding Neverland Podcast. We are a Christian metalcore band called Finding Neverland, and this is our Bible study podcast. We're super excited to be here tonight.

[00:01:08] If you're watching live, we always ask that you come leave a comment or ask a question. Let us know you're watching. Ask any questions about God, scripture, or even our band. So we'd love to hear from you.

[00:01:21] Tonight's a really exciting night. We're glad to have a special guest. I'm James Carnes, the host. This is Luke Weaver, our guitar player, and we are excited to have Mark Johnson,

[00:01:34] our friend, our brother in Christ. He is the voice of the CU Buffs football and basketball teams. So let me see if we can. Can we hear you? Are you here?

[00:01:47] I've got you guys. If you're going to hear me.

[00:01:49] Yeah. Yeah, we hear you. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:01:52] You bet. You just missed the cast. Moments before we went on, I just had a brand new cup of coffee here,

[00:01:58] and I knocked on my desk right at my feet. So I've got my feet sitting in a puddle of coffee right now.

[00:02:07] It's quite the start to the podcast, but I'm glad to be out with you guys.

[00:02:10] Okay. Yeah, we're glad to have you.

[00:02:13] Yeah, I mean, that stuff that happens to us all the time is technical issues, or I tend to spill something right as things happen.

[00:02:20] And I'm sure you're in radio. I'm sure there's tons of problems that all of a sudden seem to come right when you guys need to be on air.

[00:02:28] I'm sure that's a thing that happens with you guys.

[00:02:32] But with coffee feet, I guess, we're just super blessed to have you here and just share your story.

[00:02:44] We're just thankful. I'm thankful to know you as a friend and a brother in Christ,

[00:02:49] and you've been somebody that's helped guide me in learning scripture better and just learning the challenges of being a young man and being a Christian man in our world.

[00:03:04] So, yeah, wherever you want to start, we just kind of wing this show.

[00:03:10] We let the Holy Spirit kind of just guide us with wherever it's going to go.

[00:03:15] But we're just excited to have you here. You're welcome to share your testimony or anything you want to share about.

[00:03:22] And, yeah, the floor is yours.

[00:03:26] Well, I think, you know, you and I, James, talk a lot about the challenges right now of being a young man who follows Christ in our culture.

[00:03:39] Yeah.

[00:03:40] Excuse me.

[00:03:43] We're living in a time right now where if you're going to follow Christ biblically,

[00:03:51] if you're going to be somebody who is well-versed in the Word and looks to follow Christ according to the Word of God.

[00:04:00] If Jesus said in John 14, 15, if you love me, follow my commands.

[00:04:03] And that even saying that phrase right there right now is in some people within the political Christian world.

[00:04:14] It is almost heresy.

[00:04:16] I was speaking at an event not long ago, and I quoted John 14, 15, if you love me, follow my commands.

[00:04:21] And basically, they said, tell me, you're a Pharisee.

[00:04:24] Well, what's happened, like a lot of words within the American culture right now, especially the American Christian culture,

[00:04:32] but American culture overall have been hijacked and turned into something that never were.

[00:04:38] Following Christ's commands is not pharisaical.

[00:04:42] That's what we do when we're regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

[00:04:45] We follow.

[00:04:46] And I explained it to this group that I was talking to that day when a couple of folks were very angry that I would suggest that obedience has to be part of the Christian walk.

[00:04:56] And I said, let me explain it this way.

[00:04:58] You love the most.

[00:05:00] The person that you, it may be a parent, it might be a spouse, it might be a child, whomever it is in your life, that is the greatest love of your life,

[00:05:11] you always want to do right by them because you love them and you care for them.

[00:05:16] You want to sacrifice.

[00:05:18] So I think that's one of the craziest things that's happening in World of Christianity is this idea that, yeah, I call myself a Christian,

[00:05:27] but I do whatever I want, whether it contradicts scripture or not.

[00:05:31] I do whatever I want because I'm the most important person within this equation, not Christ.

[00:05:37] And so this is kind of, and you and I talk about this on a regular basis when we get together for coffee.

[00:05:43] This is an enormous issue within the Christian world.

[00:05:47] That is being propagated and it's being promoted over and over and over again.

[00:05:53] And if you have any opinion contrary to that, you're the heretic, you're the heretic.

[00:06:00] And this is an enormous problem.

[00:06:02] You know, what ends up happening for all of us?

[00:06:05] When you start thinking that way, when you start thinking about what is my truth,

[00:06:11] that's a phrase that just makes my skin crawl when I hear somebody in a Christian world, what is my truth?

[00:06:17] And I'm a little bit blunt when speaking at events like that.

[00:06:20] And I'll look at somebody and say, I don't care what your truth is.

[00:06:22] Your truth has no validity to me whatsoever.

[00:06:25] It has no impact on my life.

[00:06:26] What is valid in my life, what is impactful, is the truth of what Christ said, what the Word of God says.

[00:06:35] And so, but we've gotten to this point, I think, in a Christian world now where, you know, we...

[00:06:40] And basically, you can walk into virtually any church, you can run into it on a regular basis.

[00:06:45] You know, when everything is about how we're going to apply this scripture to you instead of me applying my life to that scripture.

[00:06:55] Right?

[00:06:56] Because what we do, we've created ourselves as some sort of God and God's...

[00:07:01] And then in Christ or the Lord is a secondary person in this story.

[00:07:07] I'm the primary.

[00:07:08] I'm the main character.

[00:07:09] Everything focuses on me.

[00:07:11] But yeah, I believe in God and I believe that I should do some good every once in a while.

[00:07:16] Well, that's not Christianity.

[00:07:17] That's not biblical Christianity in any way, shape or form.

[00:07:20] And so, you know, as you and I have talked over the course of time, that's becoming problematic.

[00:07:26] And it is leading a lot of people in a very bad direction.

[00:07:30] You know, it was once said that, you know, the greatest danger in life is not being...

[00:07:39] Not being...

[00:07:40] If you're a follower of Christ, it's not being satanic.

[00:07:43] It's being a 16th of an inch off of the gospel.

[00:07:47] If somebody is preaching a gospel other than what we preached, they shall be accursed.

[00:07:54] You know, there's somebody I listen to on a regular basis named Bode Bakken who once said,

[00:07:58] if you're preaching a gospel that's almost a gospel, it's almost not going to get you to heaven,

[00:08:04] but it's going to get you to hell.

[00:08:05] And these are the things that we need to be aware of within the Christian world and what we're looking at,

[00:08:10] because the Word of God has become nothing more than, you know, something we like to cherry pick.

[00:08:16] I've said before, it's like a buffet.

[00:08:18] You know, I like beansprouts, but I don't like snow peas.

[00:08:20] So I'll accept this from Scripture, but I'm not going to accept that from Scripture.

[00:08:25] Well, that's not the way this works.

[00:08:27] When God speaks, He speaks truth.

[00:08:29] He speaks His truth, and it is the ultimate truth.

[00:08:31] And then we have to then, like I said, through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit,

[00:08:36] then become transformed, as Paul wrote.

[00:08:39] We become transformed, a new creation.

[00:08:42] And we do so then, ultimately, that aligns with the Word of God.

[00:08:46] And so, you know, that's a big thing in my life right now.

[00:08:51] When I go out, you know, when I was coming out of high school,

[00:08:54] I was going to be either a pastor or a sportscaster.

[00:08:56] And my old joke has always been that the Lord knew that nobody needed the Lord more than the media did,

[00:09:01] and that's where He sent me.

[00:09:03] And so, but along with that, then, I've been blessed enough to come full circle,

[00:09:06] and I do preach a lot.

[00:09:08] And what we're just talking about here is a common message when I go out and speak.

[00:09:11] And that is, fellas, we need to be paying attention to the Word of God.

[00:09:15] We need to be understanding what that means, how it applies to our life,

[00:09:20] what God says, how then, you know,

[00:09:23] I like to say that when we want to know what it means to be a man of God,

[00:09:26] go to the Word of God and find out what God says about that.

[00:09:28] What does it say about how a man's supposed to be?

[00:09:30] What are we supposed to think?

[00:09:31] How are we supposed to act?

[00:09:32] How are we supposed to look?

[00:09:33] How are we supposed to dress?

[00:09:35] That's God's truth, not my truth, not your truth.

[00:09:38] It's God's truth.

[00:09:39] And I think this is a concept that is morally missed within our society.

[00:09:46] Charles Spurgeon back in his time was in great opposition to what he called drift.

[00:09:53] And I'm not, you know, we're not drifting in North America.

[00:09:56] We've set sail.

[00:09:58] And this is a problem within the church here in the United States.

[00:10:01] So you guys see why I wanted to get him on here.

[00:10:04] There's just a fire and that, that excites me with you, Mark.

[00:10:11] And especially in, you know, the, the space that you work in,

[00:10:18] I'm sure it's challenging, you know?

[00:10:20] I guess, you know, all the time we talk about these things and I think,

[00:10:25] you know, what, what would be, I guess my, my question is, you know,

[00:10:29] how have you been able to navigate so much in, in, I guess it's specifically like

[00:10:34] in CU and, and, and just, you know,

[00:10:38] building your career and trying to stay true to the gospel and following the

[00:10:42] gospel and pre and, you know,

[00:10:44] our overall calling is to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth.

[00:10:49] And so I guess, you know, my first question would be, you know, what,

[00:10:55] what would you,

[00:10:55] what's your advice to someone trying to live out preaching the gospel in like

[00:11:00] secular occupations, like, like you're in,

[00:11:05] I think it's a very interesting thing because it can be very easy for a lot of

[00:11:09] us to, you know if we want to preach the gospel, we'll just, well,

[00:11:12] we'll just get a job in ministry, but you know, God calls us to the media.

[00:11:16] God calls us to be teachers and scientists and you know you know,

[00:11:20] musicians and artists and actors and, and you know, mailmen.

[00:11:25] And so it's like, well,

[00:11:26] what would you say to people that, you know, are, are,

[00:11:28] are trying to live that out, but are in, you know,

[00:11:33] a secular work environment?

[00:11:35] Well, I think what we have to do is, is we go back to what I just said about,

[00:11:39] what does it mean? What is the, what does scripture say about being, right?

[00:11:45] Go and find that out and then live that way.

[00:11:47] Um, you know, there's an old, old cliche, it's a platitude.

[00:11:51] We've all heard it, you know, that, you know,

[00:11:53] you're the only Bible that somebody may ever read.

[00:11:55] And, and although it is, it's cliched and all these things,

[00:11:59] there is some truth in terms of what it says.

[00:12:01] We are to be set apart.

[00:12:03] We're supposed to be different.

[00:12:06] Um, was to have a different aura about us.

[00:12:09] So we, we act different.

[00:12:10] We speak differently than, than those around us.

[00:12:14] And one thing we've done in society, uh,

[00:12:17] that we've thrown around a lot that, that you hear is, you know,

[00:12:21] well, Jesus used to hang out with sinners.

[00:12:26] That's, that's technically a lot true.

[00:12:28] Okay.

[00:12:29] Jesus interacted daily with sinners and he loved sinners every single day.

[00:12:35] That is very true.

[00:12:37] But if you notice every interaction we find in scripture, um,

[00:12:41] um, number one,

[00:12:42] they understood something was different about him.

[00:12:45] Ultimately when the apostles were going out after the, the,

[00:12:48] the crucifixion, the resurrection, when they went out,

[00:12:50] there was something different.

[00:12:51] We, we read Paul's accounts for all of his epistles.

[00:12:54] And, and Paul was a different man.

[00:12:57] And yes, he would meet people where they were at without question.

[00:13:00] We have to do that.

[00:13:01] We have to love people.

[00:13:03] I mean, that, that's, that's the call of the gospel.

[00:13:05] We got to preach the gospel to the unsaved.

[00:13:07] You know, uh, as scripture says, you know,

[00:13:09] the healthy doesn't need a physician.

[00:13:11] Right.

[00:13:12] And so we go out, we interact with the world.

[00:13:14] And so in our cases, in a secular situation,

[00:13:16] we're going to be around people that, you know, I, you know,

[00:13:19] during the course of my career,

[00:13:20] I've had situations where I knew that I was interacting with a guy who was,

[00:13:24] who was, uh, you know, he was deep into pornography.

[00:13:27] And then another guy was, was, uh, uh, a serial adulterer and,

[00:13:32] and all these different things that,

[00:13:33] that all of us struggle with in life.

[00:13:35] Yeah.

[00:13:35] Okay.

[00:13:35] Okay.

[00:13:36] And as we all know,

[00:13:37] Christianity better than anybody else.

[00:13:39] We've all got the same sins.

[00:13:41] Everybody else does.

[00:13:41] We just understand it.

[00:13:43] And we know who our savior is.

[00:13:44] And then we,

[00:13:45] we come to him and lay it at the foot of the cross and,

[00:13:48] and ask for his working in our lives so that we're transformed.

[00:13:51] And so, um,

[00:13:53] the way I would look at it out in,

[00:13:54] in secular society is this.

[00:13:57] I want people to understand there's something different about me.

[00:14:00] I'm going to speak different when,

[00:14:01] when,

[00:14:01] when I am involved in a situation and let's say it's in the office and some

[00:14:06] sort of, uh, off color, you know,

[00:14:09] conversation comes up.

[00:14:11] I don't jump in the middle of it and start being everybody over the head with

[00:14:14] a Bible,

[00:14:15] but I attract myself and I don't take part in that.

[00:14:18] Um,

[00:14:19] that that's not what we're called to be.

[00:14:21] And,

[00:14:21] and I've done that for years and I've had people come up to me at

[00:14:25] different times and say,

[00:14:26] dude,

[00:14:27] what's the deal?

[00:14:28] Every time I notice,

[00:14:29] every time we got to get into a long cover,

[00:14:31] uh,

[00:14:31] color commentary or conversation,

[00:14:32] rather,

[00:14:33] um,

[00:14:34] you,

[00:14:34] you seem to kind of peel off the conversation.

[00:14:36] And then that gives me the opportunity to explain.

[00:14:39] I've called,

[00:14:40] uh,

[00:14:41] my Lord has called me to be different.

[00:14:42] My,

[00:14:42] my job is to glorify him,

[00:14:44] let your light shine before men,

[00:14:46] let me see your good deeds and praise your father in heaven.

[00:14:49] And so it's,

[00:14:50] it's,

[00:14:50] those are the kinds of things I look for in,

[00:14:53] in,

[00:14:53] uh,

[00:14:54] how I conduct myself,

[00:14:55] how I interact.

[00:14:56] I try to be the guy that,

[00:14:58] that is honest in all transactions.

[00:15:00] I,

[00:15:00] you know,

[00:15:01] I heard a great story one time about the great Bill McCartney,

[00:15:04] somebody in Boulder,

[00:15:05] walked into the Boulder athletic club and Bill McCartney,

[00:15:08] here's the coach of the national championship,

[00:15:10] Colorado Buffaloes.

[00:15:11] And at the time he was like the Nick Saban of his time.

[00:15:13] And,

[00:15:14] and Mac was in the locker room by himself,

[00:15:16] walking around,

[00:15:17] picking up towels,

[00:15:18] folding them,

[00:15:18] putting them in the corner and picking up paper off the floor.

[00:15:21] And he was set apart.

[00:15:23] He was,

[00:15:23] he was a servant.

[00:15:24] He had that mindset.

[00:15:25] And,

[00:15:26] and so I think that's something we forget when we live that way.

[00:15:31] When,

[00:15:32] when you're,

[00:15:33] you're never above whatever the task may be,

[00:15:36] you're,

[00:15:36] you're,

[00:15:37] you're not sampling whatever the carnality of the world is.

[00:15:40] And you're saying,

[00:15:41] I can't be part of that.

[00:15:43] So I'm not going to scream and holler at everybody.

[00:15:45] I'm just going to take my,

[00:15:46] myself apart from that or away from that.

[00:15:48] When you start doing that,

[00:15:49] it starts being noticed and people begin to wonder.

[00:15:53] And then they ask this work.

[00:15:54] What are you doing?

[00:15:55] Why are you that way?

[00:15:55] Why?

[00:15:56] When,

[00:15:56] when,

[00:15:57] when everything's hitting the fan at work,

[00:15:59] you're the one guy that's not cussing and swearing.

[00:16:01] You seem like you're pretty together and you're calm and you're trying to

[00:16:04] figure things out and you're decent to people.

[00:16:06] And not only are you,

[00:16:08] uh,

[00:16:11] I walked down the hallway the other day and you were standing there having a

[00:16:13] nice conversation with the janitor who nobody else seems to pay attention

[00:16:16] to in the business.

[00:16:17] What's the different thing about you that makes you that way?

[00:16:20] And,

[00:16:20] and I think that that's what we have the opportunity.

[00:16:24] The life of Christ,

[00:16:26] when we're pursuing him,

[00:16:27] you know,

[00:16:27] Matthew 6 33 says,

[00:16:28] seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

[00:16:31] And all these things should be added to you.

[00:16:33] I think that's one of the most important scripture in the Bible.

[00:16:36] I really do.

[00:16:36] Because it,

[00:16:37] it tells us first off,

[00:16:38] like we're called to do,

[00:16:39] right?

[00:16:39] Seek your Lord,

[00:16:40] your Lord,

[00:16:40] your love,

[00:16:41] Lord your God with all your heart,

[00:16:42] mind,

[00:16:42] soul,

[00:16:42] and strength.

[00:16:43] So seek first the kingdom of God and everything will be added to you.

[00:16:47] We're going to be,

[00:16:48] we're going to be given a grace and we're going to be given patience and,

[00:16:52] and understanding and all the things that,

[00:16:54] that he gives to his followers,

[00:16:56] his children.

[00:16:57] And,

[00:16:58] and I think that sets us apart.

[00:16:59] And I think that's the,

[00:17:00] we don't have to be the most well-versed person in scripture.

[00:17:03] We don't have to understand eschatology.

[00:17:07] I'm not sure anybody understands eschatology,

[00:17:09] to be honest with you.

[00:17:09] We don't have to understand,

[00:17:11] you know,

[00:17:12] doctrine to the point that we're,

[00:17:13] we're like a Charles Spurgeon or someone along those lines,

[00:17:16] but,

[00:17:16] you know,

[00:17:17] but we have to be set apart and have people understand that we're different as a result of what Christ has done in our lives.

[00:17:25] And I think that's what sets us apart.

[00:17:27] And that gives us the greatest ministry opportunity of all.

[00:17:31] That's amazing.

[00:17:32] Wow.

[00:17:32] Yeah.

[00:17:33] Me and you talk about this all the time.

[00:17:35] We,

[00:17:36] we,

[00:17:36] we talk about American Christian culture.

[00:17:41] We,

[00:17:41] we freak out when we,

[00:17:42] we find out a celebrity is a Christian.

[00:17:44] Um,

[00:17:45] so this is something we talk about all the time.

[00:17:47] And,

[00:17:47] um,

[00:17:48] just what you were saying was when we,

[00:17:50] when you're set apart,

[00:17:51] when you're,

[00:17:51] when you're following Christ,

[00:17:53] you're going to look different like the world.

[00:17:54] And,

[00:17:55] and one thing that,

[00:17:56] you know,

[00:17:56] I'm pursuing and then I see with people like you is people don't have to ask if I'm Christian.

[00:18:02] You know,

[00:18:02] they just already know they can,

[00:18:04] they can already tell by the way I'm living by the fruit that's being produced in,

[00:18:07] in,

[00:18:07] in our lives.

[00:18:08] And so that's,

[00:18:09] you know,

[00:18:10] that's what you want to see.

[00:18:12] You don't want people to just be like,

[00:18:13] Oh,

[00:18:13] did you know that person's a Christian?

[00:18:15] That's,

[00:18:16] that's awesome.

[00:18:17] Good,

[00:18:17] you know,

[00:18:17] good for them.

[00:18:18] Like nobody's asking,

[00:18:19] nobody's,

[00:18:20] nobody's surprised when they hear,

[00:18:22] you know,

[00:18:22] you know,

[00:18:23] Mark,

[00:18:23] you're,

[00:18:23] you're a Christian or,

[00:18:24] you know,

[00:18:25] you're a follower of Christ.

[00:18:26] And,

[00:18:26] um,

[00:18:26] you know,

[00:18:27] and then,

[00:18:27] you know,

[00:18:27] we see these people,

[00:18:28] you know,

[00:18:29] go crazy over Christian celebrities,

[00:18:31] but just because they put,

[00:18:32] uh,

[00:18:33] you know,

[00:18:33] a Bible scripture or they wore a shirt that has,

[00:18:36] you know,

[00:18:36] Jesus on it or something,

[00:18:37] you know,

[00:18:38] it's,

[00:18:38] it's just so silly,

[00:18:39] but we talk about that a lot.

[00:18:41] And I think that's a big deal as,

[00:18:43] as being set apart and people see it.

[00:18:45] And,

[00:18:46] you know,

[00:18:46] Jesus didn't say he was going to know,

[00:18:48] you're going to know people by,

[00:18:50] if they say they're Christian,

[00:18:50] you're going to know if they're,

[00:18:52] you're going to know by their fruit.

[00:18:53] And so,

[00:18:54] um,

[00:18:55] and so we,

[00:18:55] we,

[00:18:56] I think that's just something that I strive to be as,

[00:18:58] as I don't even want people to ask if I'm a Christian,

[00:19:01] they should already know.

[00:19:02] They should already know where I stand on,

[00:19:03] on things.

[00:19:04] You've heard me say this many times,

[00:19:06] James,

[00:19:06] I,

[00:19:07] I always,

[00:19:07] and I,

[00:19:08] whenever I speak,

[00:19:09] you know,

[00:19:09] because being in sports world,

[00:19:10] like I am,

[00:19:11] and I,

[00:19:11] I,

[00:19:11] I,

[00:19:11] I'm obviously going,

[00:19:13] but for many years,

[00:19:15] major league baseball and different things,

[00:19:17] I was around all of that.

[00:19:18] And so,

[00:19:19] you know,

[00:19:19] I always get asked about,

[00:19:20] Hey,

[00:19:20] this guy or that guy,

[00:19:21] you know,

[00:19:22] he put,

[00:19:22] uh,

[00:19:23] the verse on his eye black,

[00:19:24] or he had a t-shirt on,

[00:19:26] or he,

[00:19:26] you know,

[00:19:27] he said,

[00:19:27] God bless,

[00:19:28] or whatever it is.

[00:19:29] And,

[00:19:30] and all of that means literally nothing.

[00:19:32] It really does.

[00:19:33] And I know in our society,

[00:19:35] we think that that's where Christianity comes from,

[00:19:38] but it's not.

[00:19:40] And,

[00:19:40] and you've heard me say this many times,

[00:19:42] so there's no such thing,

[00:19:43] biblically speaking,

[00:19:44] as a Christian celebrity.

[00:19:45] It's an oxymoron.

[00:19:46] It makes no sense.

[00:19:48] Our idea,

[00:19:49] what did Christ say?

[00:19:50] Deny,

[00:19:51] pick up and follow.

[00:19:52] Deny yourself,

[00:19:54] pick up the cross and follow me.

[00:19:57] And so this idea that,

[00:19:58] you know,

[00:19:59] somebody is a Christian celebrity.

[00:20:01] I'm not even sure what that means to be honest with you.

[00:20:03] It's always confused me,

[00:20:04] but we get very excited about,

[00:20:07] you know,

[00:20:07] when,

[00:20:07] when the quarterback after a game,

[00:20:09] you know,

[00:20:10] Hey,

[00:20:11] all praise and glory to Jesus Christ.

[00:20:12] Well,

[00:20:13] you know,

[00:20:14] a lot of times I see these guys behind the scenes and,

[00:20:16] and,

[00:20:17] and I'm like,

[00:20:17] well,

[00:20:17] that's the same guy that I saw walking out of the stadium last week with somebody after the game that wasn't his wife.

[00:20:23] Or,

[00:20:24] the guy that's,

[00:20:25] that's hanging out,

[00:20:25] you know,

[00:20:26] at the strip level,

[00:20:27] you know,

[00:20:27] and so we've got to be discerning about that.

[00:20:31] Yeah.

[00:20:32] Thing that,

[00:20:32] you know,

[00:20:33] just I'm sitting here thinking about it.

[00:20:34] And,

[00:20:34] and you know,

[00:20:35] this is about what I've gone through.

[00:20:36] The one thing that's happened with me here in the last number of months,

[00:20:41] you,

[00:20:42] you can't muscle Christianity.

[00:20:44] We're not going to force it on yourself.

[00:20:47] You're not going to,

[00:20:48] I,

[00:20:48] I,

[00:20:48] I'm going to become a greater Christian because I'm going to study harder and I'm going to try harder and I'm going to be nicer.

[00:20:54] That's not,

[00:20:55] that's not Christianity.

[00:20:56] Okay.

[00:20:57] That's you trying to save yourself.

[00:20:59] That's not what this is about.

[00:21:00] For it is by grace that we are saved through faith,

[00:21:03] not by good works that no one can boast.

[00:21:06] Well,

[00:21:06] one thing that,

[00:21:07] that the Lord has done with me,

[00:21:08] I got a real serious accident about four and a half months ago.

[00:21:11] And,

[00:21:11] and I'm a guy that's involved in the horses and the rodeo world.

[00:21:15] And,

[00:21:15] and I had one nasty,

[00:21:17] nasty accident and then breaking my pelvis.

[00:21:19] They,

[00:21:20] they,

[00:21:20] they call it the open book.

[00:21:21] Your pelvis just goes pop like that.

[00:21:23] And,

[00:21:23] and there's a lot of really bad things that can come from that.

[00:21:26] And then along with that,

[00:21:29] being that I,

[00:21:30] my voice is my living,

[00:21:31] you know,

[00:21:32] I'm a sportscaster.

[00:21:33] I do voiceover stuff all over the country.

[00:21:34] Uh,

[00:21:35] this is always important to me.

[00:21:37] And as a result of my accident and the following surgeries,

[00:21:42] I went through during the intubation,

[00:21:44] they actually damaged my vocal cords.

[00:21:46] And so guys,

[00:21:48] the last number of months,

[00:21:50] um,

[00:21:51] you know,

[00:21:51] I,

[00:21:51] there were times I was laying in bed to barely move.

[00:21:54] I,

[00:21:54] I,

[00:21:54] I really couldn't walk much for a couple of months.

[00:21:57] And,

[00:21:58] and I'm,

[00:21:59] I'm a,

[00:21:59] you can't tell here.

[00:22:00] I'm a large guy,

[00:22:01] six foot five.

[00:22:02] I've always been 250,

[00:22:03] 260 pounds.

[00:22:04] And I've always been,

[00:22:06] uh,

[00:22:06] as it's turned out,

[00:22:07] I never thought about it until what,

[00:22:08] what the Lord brought me through.

[00:22:10] I've always been arrogant about my size and strength.

[00:22:13] I'm a big,

[00:22:14] strong guy,

[00:22:15] dude.

[00:22:15] Don't,

[00:22:15] don't mess with me.

[00:22:16] I'm,

[00:22:16] you know,

[00:22:17] I can muscle this whole thing.

[00:22:19] And then another thing that,

[00:22:20] that was an idol in my life was the fact that God has blessed me with a,

[00:22:24] a very professional sounding voice.

[00:22:27] I had nothing to do with it,

[00:22:28] but I took great pride in that.

[00:22:31] And so what is the last four and a half months is my strength was taken away.

[00:22:38] Um,

[00:22:39] I'm down to 220 pounds.

[00:22:40] I,

[00:22:40] I am as weak as I have probably been since I was a child,

[00:22:44] to be honest with you.

[00:22:45] And one night I was laying in bed after I found out,

[00:22:49] not only,

[00:22:49] but now I obviously knew about the injury,

[00:22:51] but found out about my throat issues I was having of what was going on there.

[00:22:54] And I'm laying there in bed one night.

[00:22:56] My wife is laying next to me.

[00:22:57] My,

[00:22:57] I've got a 27 year old disabled son that lives,

[00:23:00] obviously he's our forever child.

[00:23:01] He lives at home here.

[00:23:02] He's in the room next to us.

[00:23:03] And I'm laying in bed and I,

[00:23:05] I'm praying about it and I'm,

[00:23:07] I'm scared and I'm,

[00:23:09] I'm,

[00:23:09] you know,

[00:23:10] uneasy and anxious about what is going on here.

[00:23:14] I thought to myself,

[00:23:15] if somebody broke into my house right now,

[00:23:18] I could,

[00:23:19] I could not protect my wife and son.

[00:23:21] I could do,

[00:23:22] do nothing I'm called upon because I am,

[00:23:24] I am literally barely able to walk at this point.

[00:23:27] I'm in nonstop pain.

[00:23:28] And,

[00:23:29] and I'm wondering is my career in jeopardy?

[00:23:32] Because now my voice is affected guys.

[00:23:35] And so what,

[00:23:36] what the Lord has done for me here the last,

[00:23:38] and I've been really been working on a message.

[00:23:40] I've got a number of big speaking events coming up in the spring.

[00:23:42] And I thought this is,

[00:23:43] this is the message I need to share.

[00:23:45] Um,

[00:23:46] I've been thanking God for the gift of weakness because he has illustrated for me in my life.

[00:23:54] The idol,

[00:23:55] we all have idols in our life,

[00:23:56] right?

[00:23:57] And,

[00:23:57] and there are varying kinds of nice people think of,

[00:24:00] okay,

[00:24:00] money can be an idol.

[00:24:01] We understand that.

[00:24:02] And,

[00:24:03] you know,

[00:24:03] family can be an idol.

[00:24:05] We can,

[00:24:05] we can do that.

[00:24:05] Or you think of professional athletes or actors or politicians,

[00:24:09] they can be idols in our life,

[00:24:11] whatever it is.

[00:24:11] We've all got idols in our life,

[00:24:13] but I had thought about that aspect of it,

[00:24:16] but never really kind of turn that back on me in this regard.

[00:24:20] I,

[00:24:20] I was aware of,

[00:24:22] okay,

[00:24:22] am I idolizing money?

[00:24:23] Am I idolizing in my profession?

[00:24:25] I've got a public job.

[00:24:26] Am I idolizing fame and notoriety?

[00:24:29] Okay.

[00:24:29] I'm doing my best to stay away from that.

[00:24:31] But what I didn't realize in me,

[00:24:33] I was arrogant about,

[00:24:36] I'm a big,

[00:24:37] strong guy.

[00:24:38] My voice is powerful.

[00:24:40] And,

[00:24:40] and,

[00:24:41] you know,

[00:24:41] I can count on that and I can make a living with that.

[00:24:44] And so it's been an interesting experience,

[00:24:47] you know,

[00:24:47] where Paul talked about praying about the thorn in his side and,

[00:24:51] and,

[00:24:52] you know,

[00:24:52] the Lord said,

[00:24:52] no,

[00:24:52] my grace is sufficient for you.

[00:24:54] That has spoken loudly to me in the last four and a half months.

[00:24:59] And I follow this path right now.

[00:25:01] And I'm,

[00:25:01] I'm,

[00:25:02] I'm really,

[00:25:02] you know,

[00:25:02] every day with the Lord,

[00:25:03] I'm in the word,

[00:25:04] I'm praying about it.

[00:25:05] Father,

[00:25:05] help me understand this.

[00:25:07] I'm,

[00:25:07] I'm,

[00:25:07] I'm scared right now.

[00:25:08] I'm,

[00:25:08] I'm,

[00:25:09] I'm,

[00:25:11] I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do the next ball game.

[00:25:13] I've got coming up for the next,

[00:25:14] next voice assignment.

[00:25:15] I've got it.

[00:25:16] It really guys has been a phenomenal experience.

[00:25:21] Charles Spurgeon once said that every great man of faith is going to deal with great trials.

[00:25:25] And,

[00:25:26] and that's,

[00:25:26] that's been echoing in my mind to this whole thing as well,

[00:25:29] that,

[00:25:30] that you're going to be committed to God and you're going to be thing.

[00:25:34] I want to be used by you,

[00:25:36] which by the way,

[00:25:37] is the most dangerous prayer in the world.

[00:25:40] Father,

[00:25:40] use,

[00:25:42] you better get ready.

[00:25:44] That's going to be uncomfortable.

[00:25:45] You're actually technically going to be used by God.

[00:25:47] If you're legitimately going to be used by God,

[00:25:50] just take a look at all the,

[00:25:51] all the men in the Bible that were used by God.

[00:25:53] It is not necessarily a healthy,

[00:25:55] wealthy and popular way to live.

[00:25:57] You're going to be dealing with a great deal of trial in your life.

[00:26:01] And a lot of times of suffering and the world's going to hate you and all the things we know.

[00:26:05] But I've really been,

[00:26:07] been meditating on that and praying about that and trying to understand it and where I've,

[00:26:12] where I've stepped off the path and brought it,

[00:26:14] bring me back.

[00:26:15] And how can this glorify you in the end?

[00:26:17] Even if I,

[00:26:18] I never get back to being a big,

[00:26:19] strong guy,

[00:26:20] even if I've got to end up,

[00:26:22] I can't broadcast,

[00:26:23] I can't do voiceover stuff.

[00:26:25] you know,

[00:26:25] I guess I'll have to go and flip burgers or something or dig ditches or whatever I've got to do.

[00:26:30] We can do that for the glory of God too.

[00:26:31] But,

[00:26:31] um,

[00:26:32] that's really been something that's been impressed upon me the last four and a half months.

[00:26:35] The,

[00:26:35] the,

[00:26:35] the gift of weakness.

[00:26:37] Paul said,

[00:26:37] when I am weak,

[00:26:38] then I am strong.

[00:26:39] And that's becoming more and more true for me every single day.

[00:26:43] Wow.

[00:26:44] Yeah.

[00:26:44] I'm so glad you're all right,

[00:26:46] uh,

[00:26:46] throughout that injury and everything that happened.

[00:26:49] Uh,

[00:26:50] just when you were telling me all that,

[00:26:52] I,

[00:26:52] I couldn't help but,

[00:26:54] you know,

[00:26:54] think of,

[00:26:55] um,

[00:26:57] of,

[00:26:57] you know,

[00:26:58] people believe that God will never give us more than we can handle.

[00:27:01] And wow.

[00:27:03] I mean,

[00:27:03] that can't be more false than with what he's doing with you.

[00:27:06] Um,

[00:27:07] you know,

[00:27:07] just,

[00:27:08] it's like,

[00:27:09] he's pulling you into a deeper relationship and a deeper,

[00:27:14] uh,

[00:27:15] life of dependence with God.

[00:27:17] And I just think that's,

[00:27:18] you know,

[00:27:19] that's amazing that,

[00:27:20] that,

[00:27:20] that we can see that,

[00:27:21] you know,

[00:27:21] yeah,

[00:27:22] those trials happen,

[00:27:23] but we know God is always wanting a deeper relationship with us.

[00:27:26] He's always desiring.

[00:27:28] He's he,

[00:27:29] you know,

[00:27:29] he wants us to depend on him.

[00:27:31] You know,

[00:27:31] he's desiring that.

[00:27:32] So that's why the,

[00:27:33] the,

[00:27:33] when I think of,

[00:27:34] you know,

[00:27:34] people saying that he'll never give us too much to handle.

[00:27:38] It's like,

[00:27:40] that's not true.

[00:27:41] I mean,

[00:27:41] God really,

[00:27:42] really is,

[00:27:43] is desiring for us to depend on him.

[00:27:45] So think of this a second.

[00:27:47] And,

[00:27:47] and,

[00:27:48] and that's another one of those platitudes we hear all the time.

[00:27:50] God will never give you more.

[00:27:52] Although actually,

[00:27:53] actually,

[00:27:54] if,

[00:27:54] if all he's concerned about is us handling it,

[00:27:56] then we're not depending upon him.

[00:27:58] Okay.

[00:27:58] Yeah.

[00:27:59] Yeah.

[00:27:59] What I think I'm doing,

[00:28:00] I'm,

[00:28:00] I'm,

[00:28:01] I'm in the book of Genesis right now.

[00:28:04] And I,

[00:28:04] this isn't an original thought for me.

[00:28:06] I picked this up elsewhere,

[00:28:07] but it's been impressed upon me as I've been reading through it.

[00:28:10] You know that the,

[00:28:10] that the famous controversial,

[00:28:13] if you can say that scripture about Jacob,

[00:28:16] I loved and Esau,

[00:28:17] I hated.

[00:28:18] All right.

[00:28:19] And,

[00:28:19] and,

[00:28:20] and we're not going to get depth to that and what that all entails,

[00:28:23] what exactly it means.

[00:28:24] But the one thing that is interesting about it,

[00:28:26] when you think about that,

[00:28:28] so it,

[00:28:29] it has to do with,

[00:28:30] with God's favor and God's purpose and,

[00:28:32] and what is going to happen moving forward.

[00:28:34] Remember Esau went on and lived a relatively successful,

[00:28:40] comfortable life.

[00:28:42] Jacob,

[00:28:43] the one that the Lord said he loved,

[00:28:46] got beat up nonstop his entire life and ends up limping his way into heaven.

[00:28:53] And I think really need to think about that,

[00:28:56] especially in this world of,

[00:28:58] of,

[00:28:58] you know,

[00:28:58] word of faith and prosperity,

[00:29:00] gospel,

[00:29:01] those kinds of things that,

[00:29:02] you know,

[00:29:02] everyone seemed to think that God wants us to be healthy,

[00:29:05] wealthy,

[00:29:05] and,

[00:29:05] and,

[00:29:06] and prosperous.

[00:29:08] What God wants us,

[00:29:09] he wants us to be holy.

[00:29:11] He wants us to replicate Christ,

[00:29:14] to model ourself after Christ.

[00:29:16] Paul talked about how he had,

[00:29:17] it model himself with Christ and model himself after me,

[00:29:21] you know,

[00:29:21] and he's,

[00:29:21] he's,

[00:29:21] he's encouraging us to find that holiness that God wants from us.

[00:29:26] And,

[00:29:27] um,

[00:29:28] you know,

[00:29:28] I,

[00:29:28] I frequently talk with,

[00:29:30] when I get out of conversations with those folks that are into,

[00:29:32] that idea that,

[00:29:34] I'm getting financial blessing and I'm getting this and I'm getting that,

[00:29:37] and I'm not,

[00:29:37] I'm not,

[00:29:38] I have no troubles in life.

[00:29:39] Well,

[00:29:39] it's like,

[00:29:40] boy,

[00:29:41] you might want to,

[00:29:41] you might want to really turn back to the Lord right there,

[00:29:44] because guess what?

[00:29:46] prosperity,

[00:29:47] uh,

[00:29:47] power,

[00:29:48] wealth,

[00:29:48] that's all things that Satan was offering Christ during the,

[00:29:51] uh,

[00:29:52] 40 days in the wilderness,

[00:29:53] right?

[00:29:54] Uh,

[00:29:54] take a look at all the apostles,

[00:29:56] take a look at,

[00:29:57] at what,

[00:29:57] what their lives were like and how they,

[00:30:00] uh,

[00:30:01] how they're most of them,

[00:30:02] you know,

[00:30:02] with the exception of John,

[00:30:03] well,

[00:30:03] Judas committed suicide,

[00:30:06] obviously.

[00:30:07] Um,

[00:30:07] John's the only one that died of old age.

[00:30:08] They tried to boil him in oil and that didn't work out.

[00:30:11] The Lord saved him from that.

[00:30:11] He ended up dying at potless,

[00:30:13] uh,

[00:30:13] as an old man,

[00:30:14] the rest of them were all either beheaded or crucified.

[00:30:17] Peter was crucified upside down,

[00:30:18] or they were shot or dragged to death.

[00:30:20] I mean,

[00:30:20] I don't know a lot.

[00:30:21] We need to understand what we're talking about here.

[00:30:23] And,

[00:30:23] you know,

[00:30:24] our,

[00:30:24] our life,

[00:30:25] oh,

[00:30:26] it seems like day by day that it's a long period.

[00:30:28] It is a breath that we are here,

[00:30:30] but eternity is what we're looking forward to.

[00:30:33] And,

[00:30:34] and so what does,

[00:30:35] what does God say to us,

[00:30:38] you know,

[00:30:38] in,

[00:30:38] in his word about how he wants to,

[00:30:42] you know,

[00:30:42] mold us and make us more holy and make us more Christ-like and love others so

[00:30:46] that he is glorified through that.

[00:30:48] And we care for others and we've got a servant's heart and all these kinds of

[00:30:50] things.

[00:30:51] Um,

[00:30:52] that's truly what this is all about.

[00:30:54] And,

[00:30:54] and too many times we just side on that.

[00:30:57] And we get into the,

[00:30:59] uh,

[00:30:59] I call it the,

[00:30:59] the,

[00:31:00] you know,

[00:31:00] the,

[00:31:00] it's the Yavitt effect.

[00:31:02] Uh,

[00:31:03] I know that.

[00:31:03] Yeah,

[00:31:03] but I,

[00:31:04] I want this to happen positive for me.

[00:31:06] I want this job and I want that salary and I want this spouse.

[00:31:10] And I want,

[00:31:11] yeah.

[00:31:12] Okay.

[00:31:13] That's great.

[00:31:13] And it may,

[00:31:14] I'm not saying it's not going to,

[00:31:15] but,

[00:31:16] but your focus is not focused on Christ.

[00:31:19] You're focused on you once again,

[00:31:21] but that's,

[00:31:22] that's an easy thing for all of us.

[00:31:23] Yeah.

[00:31:24] Luke,

[00:31:24] you have anything to,

[00:31:25] to add?

[00:31:26] Sorry.

[00:31:26] We've been,

[00:31:27] uh,

[00:31:27] going back and forth here.

[00:31:28] This is,

[00:31:29] as you can see,

[00:31:30] this is why I love meeting with Mark.

[00:31:32] Cause we could talk,

[00:31:32] I could just run,

[00:31:34] I could just listen to him,

[00:31:35] you know,

[00:31:35] for hours and we could just go on forever talking about scripture.

[00:31:39] And so it's great,

[00:31:41] but.

[00:31:41] Of course.

[00:31:42] Uh,

[00:31:42] and don't bother me,

[00:31:43] man.

[00:31:44] Uh,

[00:31:45] and nice to meet you,

[00:31:45] Mark.

[00:31:46] But,

[00:31:47] uh,

[00:31:48] nice to meet you.

[00:31:49] I'm Luke.

[00:31:50] Uh,

[00:31:50] just wanted,

[00:31:51] uh,

[00:31:52] I guess,

[00:31:53] comment on a few things that you were saying.

[00:31:55] And I rarely agree with,

[00:31:57] um,

[00:32:00] looking for all those things and having those ideas of this wife,

[00:32:05] this house,

[00:32:06] this lifestyle.

[00:32:09] They're all already sought in vain in a way because they're positive desires in

[00:32:17] themselves because God gave us those desires,

[00:32:20] but then they become negative desires when we go about them the wrong way.

[00:32:25] And we continue to look for how in place we can consistently lose it.

[00:32:30] And we go about it the wrong way,

[00:32:33] you know,

[00:32:34] like premarital sex.

[00:32:36] It's a positive desire.

[00:32:37] It's supposed to be found within marriage and the covenant,

[00:32:41] but that becomes a negative desire when we decide to take a shortcut and we want to

[00:32:47] say,

[00:32:48] Hey,

[00:32:48] I,

[00:32:49] I just really can't wait.

[00:32:51] And,

[00:32:51] you know,

[00:32:52] or like,

[00:32:52] like,

[00:32:53] I know better about this type of stuff,

[00:32:55] you know?

[00:32:55] And,

[00:32:56] uh,

[00:32:58] one of the things that you were saying about the Pharisee equal,

[00:33:00] uh,

[00:33:02] uh,

[00:33:03] mindset and them trying to,

[00:33:05] they're kind of projecting their own,

[00:33:07] obviously they're projecting their own Pharisee equal outlook on the faith,

[00:33:12] but the very definition of Pharisee equal is,

[00:33:18] uh,

[00:33:19] man-made laws.

[00:33:20] You know,

[00:33:21] that's what Jesus hated the most was the man-made laws,

[00:33:25] forcing people to do those laws and saying that they're not holy.

[00:33:29] If they don't do those,

[00:33:29] they're not God's laws.

[00:33:31] And so they added to the Torah,

[00:33:35] they added to the commandments.

[00:33:37] And so that was the,

[00:33:38] and,

[00:33:39] and to be honest,

[00:33:41] you're following God's laws and they're going to say,

[00:33:45] Hey,

[00:33:45] this is a Pharisee equal because they're guilty and they're,

[00:33:49] and they're projecting that guilt onto you or,

[00:33:53] you know,

[00:33:53] whoever is just following Christ.

[00:33:56] Um,

[00:33:57] and I just,

[00:33:58] I just thought that was interesting.

[00:34:00] Yeah.

[00:34:01] you know,

[00:34:02] it,

[00:34:02] you're,

[00:34:02] um,

[00:34:05] the,

[00:34:05] the old pharisaical term,

[00:34:08] you know,

[00:34:10] really go back and look at it.

[00:34:12] But what Christ was objecting to was all the weight they put on people,

[00:34:16] the weight of the law.

[00:34:18] And,

[00:34:18] and they added chapter upon chapter upon chapter on top of it.

[00:34:23] And it had nothing to do with,

[00:34:25] with what the word of God was.

[00:34:28] And,

[00:34:28] and what Moses actually gave them,

[00:34:30] they just added to it.

[00:34:31] And then they'd stand up and they had to have the,

[00:34:33] you know,

[00:34:34] as we well know from scripture,

[00:34:35] they have,

[00:34:35] they have the honored place at the,

[00:34:37] uh,

[00:34:37] at the feast.

[00:34:38] And they had to pray on the street corners.

[00:34:40] It was,

[00:34:41] it was not about Christ or God in that case,

[00:34:45] because they're just meeting Christ,

[00:34:46] obviously,

[00:34:46] but it was,

[00:34:47] it was about them.

[00:34:49] It,

[00:34:49] it,

[00:34:49] it always turns back to them.

[00:34:51] And we,

[00:34:52] um,

[00:34:52] you know,

[00:34:52] and we all meet people day and age.

[00:34:55] They're just over the top.

[00:34:56] I get accused all the time.

[00:34:57] I get kind of beat up on both sides.

[00:34:59] All right.

[00:35:00] They,

[00:35:00] they,

[00:35:00] the more,

[00:35:01] so we say liberal side of Christianity,

[00:35:03] you know,

[00:35:03] for stuff we've been talking about.

[00:35:05] And then other circumstances,

[00:35:08] you know,

[00:35:08] if I,

[00:35:08] if I don't,

[00:35:09] if I,

[00:35:09] if I'm interacting with somebody,

[00:35:11] I don't beat them up and go,

[00:35:12] Hey dude,

[00:35:12] you're,

[00:35:12] you're,

[00:35:13] you're not following Christ here.

[00:35:15] You know,

[00:35:15] then,

[00:35:15] you know,

[00:35:15] the,

[00:35:16] the,

[00:35:16] the more,

[00:35:17] shall we say conservative,

[00:35:19] uh,

[00:35:26] preach Christ.

[00:35:27] That's my job.

[00:35:28] But one of my favorite Bible verses,

[00:35:30] uh,

[00:35:30] Paul said in first Corinthians two,

[00:35:31] two,

[00:35:32] while I was with you,

[00:35:33] I knew nothing,

[00:35:34] but Jesus Christ and him crucified.

[00:35:37] Preach the gospel.

[00:35:39] Preach the gospel.

[00:35:40] Christ died for sinners as a propitiation for our sins.

[00:35:45] He placed his righteousness upon us.

[00:35:48] And he took our sin offering upon him.

[00:35:51] And he paid that price.

[00:35:53] That's what,

[00:35:54] that's what sinners need to hear.

[00:35:56] Now,

[00:35:57] when we're out and about,

[00:35:58] we're talking to secular world.

[00:36:00] That's the message.

[00:36:01] We need to love them.

[00:36:02] We need to preach the gospel to them.

[00:36:04] We need to tell them that Christ calls us to repent.

[00:36:09] The first words of Jesus's entire ministry,

[00:36:11] Mark one 15 was,

[00:36:13] uh,

[00:36:15] repent and believe in the gospel,

[00:36:16] right?

[00:36:16] He's,

[00:36:16] he's,

[00:36:17] he's passing John the Baptist there.

[00:36:18] Yeah.

[00:36:18] And it's the words.

[00:36:20] He says,

[00:36:21] repent and believe the gospel.

[00:36:23] Okay.

[00:36:23] People need to that message.

[00:36:25] Now,

[00:36:26] when we get inside the church and for example,

[00:36:29] like when James and I get together and we're talking and he,

[00:36:33] I'm just using this.

[00:36:34] I'm making this up.

[00:36:35] And James talks about,

[00:36:36] Hey,

[00:36:36] I'm,

[00:36:37] I'm involved in this kind of thing.

[00:36:38] It's my job.

[00:36:39] Then it's a fellow believer to say,

[00:36:41] James,

[00:36:41] you shouldn't be doing that.

[00:36:44] Right.

[00:36:44] You're,

[00:36:44] you're defined the word of God there.

[00:36:46] Uh,

[00:36:47] we're,

[00:36:47] we're called to call each other within the body of Christ.

[00:36:50] Yeah.

[00:36:50] That's two accounts where we're called each other to be responsible.

[00:36:54] We're as brothers in Christ.

[00:36:56] When we get together,

[00:36:57] we need to be leaning on each other.

[00:36:58] We need to be saying,

[00:36:59] Mark,

[00:36:59] you can't be doing that.

[00:37:01] Uh,

[00:37:01] you know,

[00:37:02] you're,

[00:37:02] you're out,

[00:37:02] uh,

[00:37:03] you've been having inappropriate conversations with a woman at work.

[00:37:06] It's not your wife.

[00:37:06] You got to stay away from that kind of stuff.

[00:37:08] You are,

[00:37:09] you are tempting the enemy by doing it.

[00:37:11] We're called to do that.

[00:37:13] But when we're out in the secular world,

[00:37:14] preach the gospel.

[00:37:16] Don't.

[00:37:23] But preach.

[00:37:26] Work.

[00:37:27] Let,

[00:37:28] let's have the sovereignty of the Lord.

[00:37:32] Who is what?

[00:37:35] The three of us.

[00:37:36] You're not one of us ever going to be in.

[00:37:39] You and I,

[00:37:40] the three of us will never save one soul in this world.

[00:37:44] But if we introduce people to the gospel of Jesus Christ,

[00:37:48] the Holy spirit will work.

[00:37:52] That has been totally ignored many times.

[00:37:56] Modern Christians.

[00:37:57] Yeah.

[00:37:58] It's so,

[00:37:59] uh,

[00:37:59] your connection is going in,

[00:38:00] in and out a little bit.

[00:38:01] We got most of that.

[00:38:02] Uh,

[00:38:02] but the enemy is trying to silence you already.

[00:38:06] Uh,

[00:38:07] uh,

[00:38:08] love what you're saying.

[00:38:09] Uh,

[00:38:10] yeah,

[00:38:10] we,

[00:38:10] we had that conversation last time when we met and it's,

[00:38:17] it's like this,

[00:38:18] this idea that we're not to judge anybody.

[00:38:20] And it's like,

[00:38:21] it's like Paul,

[00:38:22] Paul,

[00:38:22] Paul talks about it.

[00:38:24] Like he,

[00:38:24] we,

[00:38:25] we are called to judge other Christians.

[00:38:27] Like if we see somebody who is saying they're a Christ or they're a Christian and they're a Christ follower and their,

[00:38:33] and their,

[00:38:33] their life doesn't look anything like,

[00:38:36] like Christ or especially we should be weary of people who say they're Christian,

[00:38:42] but they don't ever talk about Jesus.

[00:38:43] That's,

[00:38:43] that's another one.

[00:38:44] Um,

[00:38:45] if you're not talking about Jesus ever,

[00:38:46] that's a problem.

[00:38:47] Um,

[00:38:48] and so we talk about that all the time is,

[00:38:51] is we are called essentially to judge other believers.

[00:38:56] Um,

[00:38:57] not hypocritically as,

[00:38:58] as we talk about,

[00:38:59] you know,

[00:39:00] Jesus said,

[00:39:01] you know,

[00:39:01] take the,

[00:39:02] uh,

[00:39:02] the log out of your eye before you take the log out before you,

[00:39:06] uh,

[00:39:06] uh,

[00:39:07] try and take the speck out of your brother's eye.

[00:39:08] And,

[00:39:09] you know,

[00:39:09] we,

[00:39:09] we talk about that a lot too,

[00:39:11] um,

[00:39:12] is fix ourselves and then go out and,

[00:39:14] and fix other and,

[00:39:16] you know,

[00:39:16] help fix others.

[00:39:17] And so we talk about that all the time too.

[00:39:19] So I love that you were bringing that up because a lot of people come,

[00:39:22] come to us on the show or just come to me in my personal life and just say,

[00:39:26] you know,

[00:39:26] we are not,

[00:39:27] don't judge people like,

[00:39:28] don't judge,

[00:39:29] just let,

[00:39:29] you know,

[00:39:29] and it's like,

[00:39:30] my gosh,

[00:39:31] that's,

[00:39:32] that's the biggest one that frustrates me is,

[00:39:34] is if you try and spread,

[00:39:36] as you try and share scripture with anybody,

[00:39:37] it's,

[00:39:38] it's you're judging this person and,

[00:39:40] uh,

[00:39:40] you're forcing your beliefs down their throats.

[00:39:42] And it's like,

[00:39:42] I can't force anything on anybody.

[00:39:44] Like you're going to make your,

[00:39:46] me and Luke talk about this all the time is we can't force the gospel on

[00:39:50] anybody.

[00:39:50] We can share the gospel with you and you're going to make a decision one way

[00:39:54] or another.

[00:39:55] Um,

[00:39:56] but you know,

[00:39:57] we can't,

[00:39:58] I can't force anything on you.

[00:39:59] So think about something here.

[00:40:01] Um,

[00:40:02] make me the most,

[00:40:03] you know,

[00:40:05] what the most used.

[00:40:07] Buddy,

[00:40:08] it may be Matthew about judge.

[00:40:10] Not let me be judged.

[00:40:12] Right.

[00:40:13] Yeah.

[00:40:14] Terrible.

[00:40:14] It's talking about,

[00:40:15] as you mentioned,

[00:40:16] but hypocrisy.

[00:40:17] And anytime.

[00:40:18] And I say,

[00:40:19] it,

[00:40:23] it,

[00:40:25] it,

[00:40:26] it,

[00:40:30] it,

[00:40:30] it,

[00:40:31] it's even within the context of the gospel that,

[00:40:34] that people don't seem to understand that.

[00:40:37] And,

[00:40:37] you know,

[00:40:38] keep in mind,

[00:40:39] you know,

[00:40:40] Pilate stood there and he offered up Christ or Barabbas.

[00:40:45] Um,

[00:40:46] and the public chose,

[00:40:48] the rabbits,

[00:40:49] the thief and murder and whatever else it was that he did.

[00:40:52] Yeah.

[00:40:52] The uncle.

[00:40:53] And,

[00:40:54] and allowed,

[00:40:55] and feared for the perfect.

[00:40:58] Uh,

[00:40:59] uh,

[00:41:04] they didn't crucify,

[00:41:05] loved,

[00:41:06] or,

[00:41:06] yeah,

[00:41:07] they crucify,

[00:41:08] the truth.

[00:41:09] Reject that.

[00:41:09] And I find that's always an interesting litmus test.

[00:41:13] Um,

[00:41:14] when are those in my life,

[00:41:15] I'll get told by different guys who want to go and have coffee.

[00:41:17] They want to talk about things within their life.

[00:41:20] When we have those conversations and ultimately when I say,

[00:41:24] well,

[00:41:24] let's talk about this aspect of your life.

[00:41:28] I can kind of tell where they are within their spiritual walk by how they

[00:41:34] react.

[00:41:35] Is it a,

[00:41:36] an angry defensive response?

[00:41:39] Or is it a,

[00:41:41] help me understand coming from it.

[00:41:43] I need to understand.

[00:41:47] Yeah.

[00:41:48] Sorry.

[00:41:48] Sorry guys.

[00:41:49] This is,

[00:41:49] um,

[00:41:50] our audio is cutting out a little bit.

[00:41:51] We all three live up in the mountains.

[00:41:53] So this is an issue that we all,

[00:41:55] that we have,

[00:41:56] uh,

[00:41:56] up here.

[00:41:57] Um,

[00:41:57] but we got most of that.

[00:41:58] Um,

[00:41:59] also,

[00:41:59] uh,

[00:42:00] we post these on Wednesday nights.

[00:42:01] So if you,

[00:42:02] if,

[00:42:02] if the audio is cutting out for you,

[00:42:04] um,

[00:42:05] uh,

[00:42:05] the,

[00:42:05] the edited version on Wednesday night,

[00:42:07] you'll be able to hear everything perfectly clear.

[00:42:09] So apologies for that.

[00:42:11] Just trying to live stream.

[00:42:12] We all,

[00:42:12] we all three of us live up 8,000 feet in the air.

[00:42:16] And this is the issue that we have living up here.

[00:42:20] Um,

[00:42:21] but,

[00:42:21] uh,

[00:42:22] thank you so much,

[00:42:23] Mark,

[00:42:23] for,

[00:42:23] for sharing all that.

[00:42:25] Um,

[00:42:25] you know,

[00:42:25] we,

[00:42:26] we,

[00:42:26] we,

[00:42:26] we talk about that a lot too,

[00:42:27] as,

[00:42:28] as you know,

[00:42:28] the church is,

[00:42:29] is preaching come as you are,

[00:42:31] but we're not preaching repentance and we're not preaching that the individual,

[00:42:35] when you come to Christ,

[00:42:36] you are supposed to change.

[00:42:37] Um,

[00:42:38] and you know,

[00:42:39] you are supposed to start to be sanctified and start to look like Jesus more and more each

[00:42:44] day.

[00:42:45] That is the goal.

[00:42:46] And,

[00:42:46] um,

[00:42:47] so I think that's something that we,

[00:42:48] that me and you talk about a lot.

[00:42:50] and that's frustrating with the American Christian culture is we are teaching people that Jesus

[00:42:55] taught us to come as we are,

[00:42:56] but we're not,

[00:42:57] but he loves us as we are.

[00:42:59] And we're just going to be who we are.

[00:43:00] And Jesus is our loving friend that's here to support us and bless us.

[00:43:05] But that's just not true.

[00:43:07] Um,

[00:43:07] Jesus deserves much more than that,

[00:43:10] uh,

[00:43:10] relationship.

[00:43:11] He is,

[00:43:12] uh,

[00:43:12] he is our savior.

[00:43:13] He is,

[00:43:14] he,

[00:43:15] he put everything out on the line for,

[00:43:17] to save us.

[00:43:18] He deserves,

[00:43:19] our everything and,

[00:43:21] uh,

[00:43:21] our repentance.

[00:43:22] And he deserves us to,

[00:43:24] to change and to be more like him.

[00:43:26] I'm,

[00:43:27] I'm listening to you talking.

[00:43:29] And,

[00:43:30] you know,

[00:43:30] we,

[00:43:31] uh,

[00:43:32] we are called to be born again.

[00:43:33] So anytime,

[00:43:35] you know,

[00:43:35] I'm sitting down with somebody and,

[00:43:37] and they kind of get me,

[00:43:39] well,

[00:43:39] this is the way you got created.

[00:43:41] Uh,

[00:43:41] hold on,

[00:43:42] hold on.

[00:43:43] Let's,

[00:43:43] let's really reevaluate.

[00:43:45] Let's just say that,

[00:43:46] that,

[00:43:46] that is true.

[00:43:47] This is the way you were born.

[00:43:48] Okay.

[00:43:48] Right.

[00:43:48] We're called to be born again.

[00:43:50] We're called to be transformed.

[00:43:51] I was,

[00:43:51] I was in the Psalms a couple of days ago and I was reminded,

[00:43:55] um,

[00:43:56] let me get over to it very quickly here.

[00:43:59] Psalms five.

[00:44:01] You know,

[00:44:01] what,

[00:44:02] one of the things we,

[00:44:02] we,

[00:44:03] we hear,

[00:44:03] one of those platitudes we hear a lot of times in modern Christianity is,

[00:44:09] love the sinner,

[00:44:10] hate the sin.

[00:44:11] Yeah.

[00:44:11] We've all heard that line.

[00:44:13] And I understand the,

[00:44:14] yeah,

[00:44:14] behind it and what people are,

[00:44:16] but as it wisely said one at one point,

[00:44:20] ultimately when it's all said and done,

[00:44:22] God sent the sinner to hell,

[00:44:24] not the sin.

[00:44:25] Okay.

[00:44:25] And we,

[00:44:27] we get into this,

[00:44:28] this area where we've created a God that I always like to say,

[00:44:33] you know,

[00:44:33] God is love,

[00:44:34] make a mistake about that,

[00:44:35] but love is not God.

[00:44:37] And you have to understand the difference in that and what that means.

[00:44:40] Uh,

[00:44:40] there is in Psalm five,

[00:44:44] uh,

[00:44:45] David writes,

[00:44:45] the boastful shall not stand before your eyes.

[00:44:49] You hate evil,

[00:44:50] evil doers.

[00:44:52] You destroy those who speak lies.

[00:44:54] The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

[00:44:57] Um,

[00:44:58] and you know,

[00:44:59] I,

[00:44:59] I think I've told you this,

[00:45:00] James,

[00:45:00] I've been in a locker room before and there's something that's been,

[00:45:02] become very common here in recent years.

[00:45:04] Uh,

[00:45:04] with student athletes and professional athletes,

[00:45:07] they get these,

[00:45:07] these tattoos that say only God will judge me.

[00:45:10] I hate that.

[00:45:11] I'm very careful.

[00:45:12] I've got to be,

[00:45:13] when I approach setting,

[00:45:15] uh,

[00:45:16] because I do work for the university,

[00:45:17] I can't go out and,

[00:45:20] but when they come to me,

[00:45:22] I'm okay to speak.

[00:45:24] And it was,

[00:45:25] he would come to me a number of times and,

[00:45:27] and,

[00:45:28] and continue to engage me in conversation.

[00:45:30] And I said to him,

[00:45:31] when there was a locker room and I happened to notice he had a shirt off.

[00:45:33] And I happened to see,

[00:45:34] I didn't know that he had that tattoo.

[00:45:36] And I said,

[00:45:37] uh,

[00:45:37] you know what that means right there?

[00:45:39] And he says,

[00:45:40] what?

[00:45:40] And I said,

[00:45:40] your tattoo only God will judge me.

[00:45:43] He goes,

[00:45:43] yeah,

[00:45:44] only God will judge.

[00:45:45] I said,

[00:45:45] yes,

[00:45:46] that is true.

[00:45:46] Yeah.

[00:45:47] And that should terrify you because he is going to judge you.

[00:45:51] You need to understand that.

[00:45:53] Right?

[00:45:53] See,

[00:45:53] what,

[00:45:54] what has happened is I,

[00:45:55] I like to speak a lot about,

[00:45:57] we have lost in awe of God,

[00:46:01] the providence,

[00:46:03] the sovereignty,

[00:46:04] who he is,

[00:46:05] the magnitude of God.

[00:46:07] Um,

[00:46:08] one of my favorite areas of scripture,

[00:46:09] get into,

[00:46:10] uh,

[00:46:10] into Job.

[00:46:10] I think it's Job,

[00:46:12] is it?

[00:46:13] yeah.

[00:46:13] 38.

[00:46:14] Where,

[00:46:15] where the Lord,

[00:46:16] where the Lord finally speaks.

[00:46:18] Yeah.

[00:46:19] And he basically has great enough like a man.

[00:46:22] I will speak.

[00:46:23] I will,

[00:46:24] uh,

[00:46:24] you will listen.

[00:46:25] I will question you.

[00:46:26] And then he goes on and basically says,

[00:46:27] do you know who you're talking to?

[00:46:30] Where were you?

[00:46:32] That's the foundation of the world.

[00:46:33] Where were you through the lines for the ocean?

[00:46:37] And he goes on and basically says,

[00:46:38] you do understand I'm God.

[00:46:42] You're not.

[00:46:44] We have lost that idea,

[00:46:47] that idea of the fear and trembling of the Lord.

[00:46:50] When you say that today,

[00:46:52] people get offended like,

[00:46:53] oh,

[00:46:54] I want to fear God.

[00:46:55] That's not,

[00:46:55] it's not the,

[00:46:56] it's not a horror movie kind of fear we're talking about here.

[00:46:59] It's the understanding of who he is.

[00:47:02] He is the mighty,

[00:47:04] eternal,

[00:47:05] almighty God who has built,

[00:47:08] and created everything.

[00:47:11] And we have the,

[00:47:13] you know,

[00:47:13] you think about it.

[00:47:14] God said,

[00:47:15] let there be light.

[00:47:16] And there was light.

[00:47:17] God's told the oceans,

[00:47:18] you stop there.

[00:47:19] And it stopped there.

[00:47:20] God said,

[00:47:21] oh,

[00:47:21] uh,

[00:47:21] rivers run here.

[00:47:23] Mountains rise up.

[00:47:24] He has said that to creation.

[00:47:26] And it did exactly what he says.

[00:47:29] And yet you and I,

[00:47:31] he looks to us and says,

[00:47:32] you need to live this way.

[00:47:34] And we say,

[00:47:35] I don't want to.

[00:47:36] Yeah.

[00:47:37] Put that in context and really think about that for a second.

[00:47:42] We have lost the fear of the Lord.

[00:47:44] Lord,

[00:47:44] we've lost the understanding of who the almighty God is.

[00:47:50] The awesomeness of Christ.

[00:47:52] We have lost that.

[00:47:54] And we need to be reminded of that.

[00:47:55] So we understand who it is that we serve.

[00:47:58] And he's not just a pet that we call out about a genie's Bible every once in a while.

[00:48:02] And we want to get the right job.

[00:48:04] Yeah.

[00:48:05] I love Job 38.

[00:48:06] So we did,

[00:48:07] we did an episode on Job.

[00:48:08] Um,

[00:48:09] uh,

[00:48:09] and we,

[00:48:10] we read that part and we were just like,

[00:48:12] man,

[00:48:13] I mean,

[00:48:13] the Lord is so stern with the way he talks with him.

[00:48:16] And you know,

[00:48:17] it's,

[00:48:17] it's,

[00:48:17] it's eyeopening.

[00:48:18] It's like,

[00:48:20] it's,

[00:48:20] it's eyeopening.

[00:48:21] You know,

[00:48:21] we,

[00:48:21] we,

[00:48:22] it's same with Jesus.

[00:48:24] You know,

[00:48:24] when you start reading,

[00:48:25] you know,

[00:48:25] in,

[00:48:32] you know,

[00:48:33] he was,

[00:48:33] uh,

[00:48:34] you know,

[00:48:35] he was gentle with his teaching,

[00:48:36] but you know,

[00:48:37] he always shared the truth.

[00:48:38] And so that's what got him killed.

[00:48:41] Um,

[00:48:42] uh,

[00:48:42] Luke,

[00:48:42] were you going to say something?

[00:48:43] I'm sorry.

[00:48:45] Oh,

[00:48:45] well,

[00:48:46] I just had a thought when,

[00:48:47] uh,

[00:48:48] Mark,

[00:48:48] Mark was saying,

[00:48:50] uh,

[00:48:51] you know,

[00:48:51] only God can judge me with the tattoos.

[00:48:53] I'm thinking,

[00:48:56] you know,

[00:48:56] when he,

[00:48:56] when he said,

[00:48:57] you're right,

[00:48:58] you know,

[00:48:58] and you better be terrified of that.

[00:49:00] I'm thinking of myself,

[00:49:03] they're so deceived that they don't understand that they would want anybody else to judge them before God does,

[00:49:10] you know,

[00:49:11] the,

[00:49:12] the entire world,

[00:49:13] let alone like a judge or something.

[00:49:16] You would want anything else to like the entire world's population to judge you before you would want the creator to judge you based on,

[00:49:26] you know,

[00:49:27] not covering yourself in the blood if you're not covered.

[00:49:30] Um,

[00:49:31] so that attitude is just definitely a deception,

[00:49:34] um,

[00:49:36] of compromise and just,

[00:49:37] uh,

[00:49:40] I guess you could say,

[00:49:41] yeah,

[00:49:41] it's just thinking that it's not that serious or something,

[00:49:45] you know,

[00:49:45] and,

[00:49:46] uh,

[00:49:47] you know,

[00:49:47] I would want,

[00:49:49] you know,

[00:49:50] the entire world to judge me and put me in prison for the rest of my life before I had to face God without the blood covering me from Christ.

[00:50:00] I,

[00:50:00] I had somebody who is a,

[00:50:01] is a very young believer.

[00:50:04] I had,

[00:50:05] uh,

[00:50:05] there was a guy that,

[00:50:06] that kind of kept pestering me as I was kind of walking around the edges.

[00:50:12] And he said to me one day,

[00:50:14] he said,

[00:50:15] who does,

[00:50:16] who did Christ save you from?

[00:50:19] And I,

[00:50:20] I,

[00:50:20] I kind of started thinking about that.

[00:50:22] And,

[00:50:22] and I finally said,

[00:50:23] well,

[00:50:23] uh,

[00:50:24] for myself.

[00:50:25] And he said,

[00:50:26] no,

[00:50:28] Christ saved you from the wrath of God.

[00:50:31] You do understand.

[00:50:32] And,

[00:50:32] and I,

[00:50:33] and at the time I,

[00:50:33] I didn't comprehend,

[00:50:35] and it,

[00:50:35] it took me time to,

[00:50:37] to fully grasp that concept that,

[00:50:39] that Christ or God is holy.

[00:50:43] So he despises anything that is not holy.

[00:50:46] Uh,

[00:50:47] the reason we needed the sacrifice of the spotless lamb is because we needed to be saved

[00:50:54] from that judgment,

[00:50:56] which is coming.

[00:50:56] And so,

[00:50:57] because Christ died for us and we repent and we believe in him and we're covered as Luke says,

[00:51:03] by the blood,

[00:51:04] we have been then,

[00:51:05] uh,

[00:51:06] we've been freed of that and,

[00:51:08] and,

[00:51:08] and marked clean by the blood of Christ.

[00:51:10] He has taken our sinful responsibility,

[00:51:13] if you will,

[00:51:14] or our place.

[00:51:15] And what we're being saved from is the holy judgment of God.

[00:51:20] And,

[00:51:21] and I don't think people think about that.

[00:51:23] I,

[00:51:24] like I said,

[00:51:25] I was a young Christian at the time and it never crossed my mind.

[00:51:27] But the problem is that we're not talking about it.

[00:51:31] We're not,

[00:51:31] we're not talking about the things that we're talking about here in this podcast tonight in church on a regular basis,

[00:51:37] because all we want to do on an average Sunday is have a good TED talk.

[00:51:41] We don't walk out feeling good about ourselves.

[00:51:45] Yeah.

[00:51:46] Who Christ,

[00:51:48] and what is done in our life.

[00:51:51] Oh,

[00:51:52] we might've lost that a little bit.

[00:51:53] Um,

[00:51:55] yeah,

[00:51:56] that is so good.

[00:51:57] This is why I loved,

[00:51:59] I wanted to have you on,

[00:52:00] uh,

[00:52:00] so much.

[00:52:01] Uh,

[00:52:01] I know we're running,

[00:52:02] we're running close on time.

[00:52:03] Um,

[00:52:04] but I wanted to ask you,

[00:52:06] uh,

[00:52:06] first off,

[00:52:07] uh,

[00:52:07] right before,

[00:52:08] uh,

[00:52:08] who,

[00:52:09] who,

[00:52:10] was there anybody,

[00:52:11] um,

[00:52:11] that you felt was,

[00:52:13] um,

[00:52:15] important in encouraging your walk with Christ or was there a mentor that you had when you were younger or,

[00:52:20] or did you feel like,

[00:52:22] um,

[00:52:22] did you feel like you had to,

[00:52:24] you know,

[00:52:24] kind of do it on your own by prayer and wearing the word?

[00:52:26] Was there somebody,

[00:52:27] were there people maybe in the sports world or,

[00:52:29] or anything that,

[00:52:30] that helped you guide you?

[00:52:33] Um,

[00:52:33] I felt called as a young person.

[00:52:36] I,

[00:52:37] I didn't come from a church background per se,

[00:52:40] but my family went to church when you were supposed to,

[00:52:42] you know,

[00:52:42] and Christ,

[00:52:46] but I always felt drawn and I didn't understand it.

[00:52:50] And I come from a very broken background.

[00:52:53] And lost my father at a young age,

[00:52:55] didn't have anybody to really,

[00:52:56] my father,

[00:52:56] I don't know if my father was a believer or not.

[00:52:58] I don't,

[00:52:58] I don't know.

[00:53:00] Um,

[00:53:01] but I,

[00:53:01] I,

[00:53:02] I just,

[00:53:02] I had no male in my life influence,

[00:53:04] but there were,

[00:53:05] there were a few different people that were not significant in terms of their day to day in my life,

[00:53:11] but I stumbled upon and they would talk to me,

[00:53:15] take me up for coffee and go,

[00:53:16] are you saying,

[00:53:17] you know what that means?

[00:53:19] Sure.

[00:53:19] I do.

[00:53:20] Well,

[00:53:20] of course I did.

[00:53:21] And so I had a few of these people that kind of batted me to kind of where I needed to go.

[00:53:27] And,

[00:53:27] uh,

[00:53:28] so I can't say there was one person,

[00:53:30] you know,

[00:53:31] some people have great stories about one person who was unbelievable in their life and kind of guided them and led them.

[00:53:36] I never had that.

[00:53:37] I kind of felt like I was,

[00:53:39] I was kind of on a wilderness journey of my own and,

[00:53:42] and God used my circumstances or every once in a while,

[00:53:45] somebody to kind of knock me back inside the line.

[00:53:48] I was a huge fan.

[00:53:50] My father died at the age of 18,

[00:53:52] suicide.

[00:53:55] Uh,

[00:54:09] you know,

[00:54:09] this last four and a half months,

[00:54:11] another chapter of kind of that,

[00:54:14] uh,

[00:54:15] continuing saga.

[00:54:16] I like to say that God's got me on his end a lot.

[00:54:19] And he's,

[00:54:20] he's got his hammer out pounding and pounding and pounding and trying to shake me.

[00:54:24] And I'm trying to understand that sometimes I'm dense and I don't get it.

[00:54:29] And I ignore it.

[00:54:30] And then he comes back.

[00:54:31] Uh,

[00:54:32] it has been a phenomenal blessing.

[00:54:34] And so that's,

[00:54:35] that's kind of the way my walk is,

[00:54:37] but I,

[00:54:37] you know,

[00:54:39] there's armor or something like that,

[00:54:40] but I don't,

[00:54:41] I don't have any of those kinds of stories in my life.

[00:54:43] It's amazing.

[00:54:44] Uh,

[00:54:46] well,

[00:54:47] awesome.

[00:54:47] Uh,

[00:54:47] Luke,

[00:54:48] do you have anything else you want to share with,

[00:54:50] with Mark before,

[00:54:51] uh,

[00:54:51] before we wrap this up?

[00:54:53] Uh,

[00:54:54] well,

[00:54:54] uh,

[00:54:54] just what he said just a second ago about,

[00:54:58] uh,

[00:54:58] you know,

[00:54:59] it'd be cool to have a origin story of,

[00:55:03] you know,

[00:55:04] I,

[00:55:04] I,

[00:55:04] I had everything and then,

[00:55:06] you know,

[00:55:06] I was blessed with a Christian family and this and this and this,

[00:55:10] uh,

[00:55:11] a full family and everything like that.

[00:55:13] But then I look at the characters of the Bible and I see all these supposed,

[00:55:18] you know,

[00:55:20] perceived discrepancies in their life also.

[00:55:24] But then God was just like,

[00:55:26] that's who I choose.

[00:55:28] And in this line of,

[00:55:29] you know,

[00:55:30] the,

[00:55:30] the bloodline that led to Yeshua,

[00:55:33] you know,

[00:55:33] there was a prostitute,

[00:55:34] there was infidelity,

[00:55:36] there was incest,

[00:55:37] there was everything under the sun.

[00:55:39] And I just feel like,

[00:55:41] man,

[00:55:42] we're right at home,

[00:55:43] you know,

[00:55:45] you know,

[00:55:45] I don't,

[00:55:45] I don't think anybody,

[00:55:47] you know,

[00:55:48] uh,

[00:55:49] I know,

[00:55:50] I know you were saying,

[00:55:50] you're saying that would be cool,

[00:55:52] you know,

[00:55:52] but I'm thinking also,

[00:55:54] yeah,

[00:55:54] but you got also chooses to use those people also.

[00:55:59] Yeah.

[00:56:00] Right.

[00:56:00] Mostly.

[00:56:02] Yeah.

[00:56:03] No,

[00:56:03] that's right.

[00:56:04] So,

[00:56:04] you know,

[00:56:04] uh,

[00:56:05] James has heard me say this before.

[00:56:06] I always say there are no great men of God.

[00:56:08] It's just small,

[00:56:09] weak,

[00:56:11] damaged,

[00:56:12] flawed men who are used by a great God.

[00:56:16] I,

[00:56:16] I,

[00:56:17] I hope that I can be counted amongst that group.

[00:56:21] With all my flaws,

[00:56:22] all my mistakes,

[00:56:23] all my imperfections,

[00:56:24] all the things.

[00:56:26] God can,

[00:56:27] how to do that.

[00:56:28] I,

[00:56:29] I strive for him.

[00:56:31] I do the best I can,

[00:56:32] striving to.

[00:56:33] So,

[00:56:33] and,

[00:56:34] I,

[00:56:35] I,

[00:56:35] I try to go,

[00:56:37] seek first the kingdom of God.

[00:56:39] And,

[00:56:40] uh,

[00:56:41] but I,

[00:56:41] that's what God wants.

[00:56:43] None of us perfect.

[00:56:45] But I,

[00:56:45] I would say when I,

[00:56:46] I used to lead some,

[00:56:47] uh,

[00:56:47] high school group for FCA and I used to tell the kids,

[00:56:50] it's not to be fat,

[00:56:51] faithful,

[00:56:51] available and teachable.

[00:56:53] And I think that's,

[00:56:54] that's a good rule to live by.

[00:56:56] Right.

[00:56:58] Definitely.

[00:56:59] Definitely.

[00:57:00] Well,

[00:57:00] Mark,

[00:57:01] thank you so much for,

[00:57:02] uh,

[00:57:02] for joining our show.

[00:57:04] Um,

[00:57:04] you're just,

[00:57:05] uh,

[00:57:05] you're just,

[00:57:05] uh,

[00:57:06] such a light for,

[00:57:06] for so many people,

[00:57:08] uh,

[00:57:08] especially us.

[00:57:09] So we really appreciate just all the wisdom that you've been able to share.

[00:57:12] And,

[00:57:13] uh,

[00:57:13] you know,

[00:57:13] I just,

[00:57:13] I enjoy just,

[00:57:15] uh,

[00:57:16] you know,

[00:57:17] uh,

[00:57:17] hearing what,

[00:57:18] what you have to say about.

[00:57:19] And it's,

[00:57:19] it's something that's really,

[00:57:21] uh,

[00:57:21] helped change my life is anytime there's a circumstance in my life,

[00:57:25] it felt like,

[00:57:26] uh,

[00:57:26] when me and you would get together,

[00:57:27] you would point me back to the word of God.

[00:57:29] And so now it's starting to be a pattern.

[00:57:32] And I,

[00:57:32] I think,

[00:57:33] you know,

[00:57:33] I really,

[00:57:34] I really appreciate that,

[00:57:35] that that's a,

[00:57:35] that's a pattern that's coming in my life is,

[00:57:38] is,

[00:57:38] is I'm like,

[00:57:39] Oh,

[00:57:39] what do I do in this situation?

[00:57:40] And it's like,

[00:57:42] well,

[00:57:42] God's speaking to us right here.

[00:57:44] You know,

[00:57:45] I'm,

[00:57:45] I'm always like,

[00:57:46] I'm always thinking that I need to hear this big word from God.

[00:57:49] And,

[00:57:49] um,

[00:57:50] you know,

[00:57:50] he is always speaking to me right here.

[00:57:52] And I can always,

[00:57:53] I can always point back to the,

[00:57:55] uh,

[00:57:55] to his word.

[00:57:56] And so,

[00:57:56] um,

[00:57:57] you know,

[00:57:57] I really appreciate that with,

[00:57:59] uh,

[00:57:59] with,

[00:58:00] uh,

[00:58:00] you,

[00:58:01] uh,

[00:58:01] sharing that with,

[00:58:02] with,

[00:58:02] that's how you have done with your life.

[00:58:05] So,

[00:58:05] um,

[00:58:06] but we're running out of time.

[00:58:08] I want to be a conscious of your time.

[00:58:10] Um,

[00:58:10] and so we always end our,

[00:58:12] our podcast in a prayer.

[00:58:13] Um,

[00:58:14] and so we'd love to pray for you,

[00:58:15] uh,

[00:58:16] before you go.

[00:58:17] And,

[00:58:22] really,

[00:58:22] and I'm glad to know you.

[00:58:24] That's,

[00:58:25] uh,

[00:58:25] I'm glad to be a brother in Christ with you.

[00:58:27] So.

[00:58:28] Yeah,

[00:58:28] yeah,

[00:58:28] let's pray,

[00:58:29] man.

[00:58:29] Let's do it.

[00:58:30] Cool.

[00:58:31] Luke,

[00:58:31] I think it's your turn.

[00:58:32] You said you would,

[00:58:33] you're,

[00:58:33] uh,

[00:58:34] open into praying for us.

[00:58:35] So let's finish this thing out.

[00:58:38] All right,

[00:58:38] guys.

[00:58:39] Thanks for listening guys.

[00:58:41] Father,

[00:58:42] thank you so much for bringing us together tonight.

[00:58:44] Um,

[00:58:46] just the Holy spirit that you inject and everything that,

[00:58:49] every word that comes out of our mouth,

[00:58:51] Lord,

[00:58:52] and if anything comes out,

[00:58:54] that's not correct,

[00:58:55] Lord,

[00:58:55] I know you always fill in the blanks and I'm just so grateful for that.

[00:59:01] Um,

[00:59:01] and,

[00:59:02] uh,

[00:59:04] just thank you for the fellowship guys.

[00:59:06] Um,

[00:59:07] the blessing that we give one another as you shower blessings upon us and we can grow in wisdom and fellowship and faith.

[00:59:15] Lord,

[00:59:16] faith is definitely,

[00:59:17] uh,

[00:59:19] you know,

[00:59:20] dwindling in the church.

[00:59:21] And we just,

[00:59:22] you know,

[00:59:23] we're just so thankful that we still have a fire for that.

[00:59:28] And it only comes from you guys.

[00:59:30] Our flesh is definitely not,

[00:59:32] uh,

[00:59:34] seeking that.

[00:59:35] So,

[00:59:36] um,

[00:59:36] I thank you so much for,

[00:59:38] uh,

[00:59:40] for coming on the podcast tonight and,

[00:59:42] uh,

[00:59:43] sharing his,

[00:59:44] uh,

[00:59:44] beliefs in this testimony and his insights,

[00:59:47] um,

[00:59:49] throughout his entire life for his,

[00:59:51] uh,

[00:59:52] walk with you guys.

[00:59:53] And,

[00:59:54] uh,

[00:59:56] just feeling right at home.

[00:59:57] Um,

[00:59:58] that you,

[01:00:00] you make these divine appointments and you,

[01:00:04] uh,

[01:00:06] control everything.

[01:00:06] And we need to remember that,

[01:00:09] God,

[01:00:10] um,

[01:00:12] everything works for you,

[01:00:13] Lord.

[01:00:14] Death,

[01:00:16] uh,

[01:00:17] the devil,

[01:00:19] hell,

[01:00:20] everything works for you.

[01:00:23] hardship and pain,

[01:00:25] and it might be hard to accept for some people,

[01:00:28] but Lord,

[01:00:29] you're in control of all of those things.

[01:00:31] And we just ask you,

[01:00:34] uh,

[01:00:34] you help us navigate those,

[01:00:37] uh,

[01:00:38] terrains and,

[01:00:39] uh,

[01:00:41] give us,

[01:00:41] uh,

[01:00:43] faith and strength through those times also,

[01:00:45] God.

[01:00:46] Uh,

[01:00:48] not necessarily comfort,

[01:00:50] um,

[01:00:51] but

[01:00:52] the ability to endure the pain is going to

[01:00:56] inevitably,

[01:00:57] inevitably,

[01:00:58] um,

[01:00:59] to make us stronger.

[01:01:01] Um,

[01:01:01] and,

[01:01:02] uh,

[01:01:02] this is just the way

[01:01:04] you've set it up,

[01:01:05] so,

[01:01:07] um,

[01:01:07] and we also thank you for your son,

[01:01:09] Jesus Christ,

[01:01:10] who died on the cross for our sins,

[01:01:13] uh,

[01:01:14] apart from which no,

[01:01:15] no one can be saved from any other name.

[01:01:19] So,

[01:01:19] we thank you,

[01:01:20] we love you,

[01:01:21] uh,

[01:01:21] in your son's name,

[01:01:23] we pray all these things.

[01:01:24] Amen.

[01:01:25] Amen.

[01:01:26] Amen.

[01:01:27] Well,

[01:01:28] all right,

[01:01:28] thank you guys for listening.

[01:01:29] Thank you if you're live tuning in.

[01:01:31] We really appreciate that.

[01:01:33] Um,

[01:01:34] uh,

[01:01:34] this was a

[01:01:35] great evening.

[01:01:36] We're so glad to have Mark,

[01:01:37] uh,

[01:01:38] join us tonight.

[01:01:38] Mark,

[01:01:39] thank you so much for your time.

[01:01:40] Um,

[01:01:42] and,

[01:01:42] obviously,

[01:01:43] have a great time in San Antonio.

[01:01:44] I know the Buffs got the,

[01:01:45] the Alamo Bowl coming up,

[01:01:47] so,

[01:01:47] uh,

[01:01:48] hope,

[01:01:48] you know,

[01:01:49] we're going to keep praying for you and,

[01:01:51] uh,

[01:01:51] you know,

[01:01:52] hope,

[01:01:52] hopefully that trip goes well for you.

[01:01:54] All right.

[01:01:56] Enjoyed our conversation.

[01:02:00] Sorry.

[01:02:01] It's,

[01:02:01] it's cutting out.

[01:02:02] Uh,

[01:02:02] but,

[01:02:04] thank you so much.

[01:02:05] I,

[01:02:06] I,

[01:02:06] I didn't hear anything.

[01:02:07] But,

[01:02:08] uh,

[01:02:09] Mark,

[01:02:10] we love you.

[01:02:10] Thank you,

[01:02:11] buddy.

[01:02:11] Uh,

[01:02:11] blessings to you.

[01:02:12] Um,

[01:02:13] and,

[01:02:13] you know,

[01:02:13] just,

[01:02:14] uh,

[01:02:14] hope,

[01:02:14] hope you have a great Christmas and we're going to be praying for you and your family and,

[01:02:17] uh,

[01:02:18] you know,

[01:02:18] uh,

[01:02:18] have a good time in San Antonio.

[01:02:20] And thanks again for joining us.

[01:02:24] I won't talk to you later.

[01:02:27] Yeah.

[01:02:28] Awesome.

[01:02:30] Yeah.

[01:02:30] I was just cutting out.

[01:02:31] Um,

[01:02:32] that's,

[01:02:32] uh,

[01:02:32] that's how this show goes,

[01:02:34] man.

[01:02:34] We live in the mountains and we just,

[01:02:36] Hey,

[01:02:37] yeah,

[01:02:37] we just,

[01:02:38] uh,

[01:02:40] yeah,

[01:02:42] I don't know.

[01:02:43] It might not be,

[01:02:43] but,

[01:02:44] um,

[01:02:45] maybe the enemy was really trying to cut him off.

[01:02:47] But,

[01:02:48] again,

[01:02:48] um,

[01:02:49] yeah,

[01:02:50] he's,

[01:02:50] um,

[01:02:51] I really enjoy speaking,

[01:02:52] talking with him.

[01:02:53] We,

[01:02:53] we just meet up and we talk about,

[01:02:55] you know,

[01:02:55] life and scripture and,

[01:02:57] uh,

[01:02:58] man,

[01:02:59] I feel like I could just talk to him for hours.

[01:03:00] You know,

[01:03:01] he's got so many stories,

[01:03:02] so many interesting,

[01:03:02] uh,

[01:03:03] tidbits.

[01:03:03] And as you can see,

[01:03:04] he's on fire for Jesus.

[01:03:05] So it's like,

[01:03:06] you want to be around people that are,

[01:03:08] that are like that,

[01:03:09] you know,

[01:03:10] because this Christian life is hard.

[01:03:12] Um,

[01:03:12] this life as a Christian man is hard.

[01:03:14] It feels very lonely at times.

[01:03:16] And so when you find people that are just,

[01:03:18] um,

[01:03:20] um,

[01:03:20] you know,

[01:03:20] have that zeal that you're looking for,

[01:03:22] um,

[01:03:24] to,

[01:03:24] you know,

[01:03:24] pour into you,

[01:03:25] um,

[01:03:26] it,

[01:03:26] it's always,

[01:03:27] it's always a blessing.

[01:03:28] And so,

[01:03:29] um,

[01:03:29] um,

[01:03:30] yeah,

[01:03:31] yeah.

[01:03:32] Yeah.

[01:03:32] Great evening.

[01:03:33] Um,

[01:03:34] yeah.

[01:03:34] Thank you guys for,

[01:03:35] for watching,

[01:03:36] um,

[01:03:37] and listening.

[01:03:39] Um,

[01:03:39] thanks for tuning in.

[01:03:40] Uh,

[01:03:40] make sure you subscribe to our YouTube.

[01:03:43] Um,

[01:03:44] we post the episodes edited on Wednesday nights on our YouTube and in our Spotify and Apple podcasts and all those good things.

[01:03:51] So,

[01:03:52] as always go follow us on our social media.

[01:03:54] We are a metal core band.

[01:03:55] So go listen to our,

[01:03:56] our music at finding Everland.

[01:03:58] We're on Spotify,

[01:03:59] Apple,

[01:03:59] Amazon,

[01:04:00] um,

[01:04:01] you know,

[01:04:01] all the,

[01:04:02] all the platforms.

[01:04:03] So,

[01:04:04] um,

[01:04:05] thanks for that amazing prayer to you,

[01:04:06] Luke.

[01:04:06] That was,

[01:04:07] that was incredible,

[01:04:07] man.

[01:04:08] Um,

[01:04:10] thanks for listening.

[01:04:11] Hope you guys have a Merry Christmas.

[01:04:13] Um,

[01:04:14] I don't know when we're going to be on again next.

[01:04:16] We might be taking next week off.

[01:04:17] We usually take holiday weeks off.

[01:04:19] So,

[01:04:20] um,

[01:04:21] but,

[01:04:21] you know,

[01:04:21] we'll see that could change.

[01:04:23] Love you guys.

[01:04:24] Uh,

[01:04:24] thanks again for tuning in.

[01:04:26] Uh,

[01:04:26] again,

[01:04:27] we had Mark Johnson.

[01:04:27] He is the,

[01:04:28] uh,

[01:04:29] voice of the Colorado Buffaloes.

[01:04:30] He does radio broadcasting.

[01:04:32] Again,

[01:04:33] the most amazing thing that I noticed when me and him talk is we don't ever

[01:04:36] actually talk about CU or football or sports or anything like that.

[01:04:40] That's what we're connected with.

[01:04:41] Um,

[01:04:42] that's how I met him,

[01:04:43] uh,

[01:04:44] met him through CU and,

[01:04:45] and working for the football team when I was trying,

[01:04:48] when I was trying to play for the team.

[01:04:50] And,

[01:04:50] um,

[01:04:51] you know,

[01:04:52] it's just,

[01:04:52] it's amazing that we can see where our heart postures are as we talk about

[01:04:56] Jesus in the scripture and we don't even talk about CU box ever.

[01:04:58] So,

[01:04:59] um,

[01:04:59] but that's what he does.

[01:05:00] He's got a job and yeah,

[01:05:04] it's amazing.

[01:05:05] Um,

[01:05:05] so I,

[01:05:06] I,

[01:05:06] I'm so glad we got to have him on.

[01:05:08] I got to,

[01:05:08] uh,

[01:05:09] really got to share what his heart.

[01:05:11] Um,

[01:05:11] cause I know his job,

[01:05:12] he doesn't get to,

[01:05:13] uh,

[01:05:14] share a lot of,

[01:05:15] um,

[01:05:15] you know,

[01:05:16] his beliefs with the gospel and stuff.

[01:05:17] So I hope it blessed him.

[01:05:19] Um,

[01:05:19] and I hope it blessed you listening as well.

[01:05:22] Cool guys.

[01:05:23] Well,

[01:05:24] have a good evening.

[01:05:25] We'll see you probably in two Fridays from now.

[01:05:28] I hope you all have a Merry Christmas.

[01:05:29] Um,

[01:05:30] we're praying for you.

[01:05:30] Keep praying for us.

[01:05:31] Um,

[01:05:32] and we love you and we'll see you.

[01:05:34] See you guys next time.

[01:05:36] Sounds good to me.

[01:05:41] Thank you for listening to this episode of the Finding Neverland podcast.

[01:05:45] We pray that you were challenged,

[01:05:48] encouraged,

[01:05:48] and uplifted as we seek to establish the kingdom of heaven.

[01:05:53] If you were impacted by our band,

[01:05:55] or if you would like to partner with Finding Neverland,

[01:05:58] please email us at finding neverland band,

[01:06:02] then the number seven at gmail.com.