Episode #41: Original vocalist Heath Weaver

[00:00:01] Thank you for listening to the Finding Neverland Podcast. Finding Neverland is a Christian Metalcore band based in Denver, Colorado. This episode was broadcasted live. Yeah, I'm so glad to be here. Let me do a little introduction on myself.

[00:00:54] As James said, I was the vocalist to find a Neverland in the beginning. For from 2012 to 2015, and what wound up our ending, me from Finding Neverland was following my dreams of becoming a football player and moving to CU, moving to Boulder,

[00:01:14] to try to become a student athlete at CU, a story which may come into fruition if your read James's new book that just came out just a few weeks ago. Is that right, James? Yeah, yeah, more as a 20-year-old. Hit me with the title again.

[00:01:28] A little man, big God. Everybody go get James book, Little Band Big God. Yeah. James, we did break that up. I just need to do you. Okay, good. I just need to talk about that.

[00:01:41] I know you're a little humble, but I think we need to talk about it for sure. And if for no other reason, you all go get that book because I'm mentioned in it once or twice. So I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. We'll get to one.

[00:01:54] We'll get to one. Yeah, so he... He's good. Everyone's in and then Boulder happened and I was in that CU four years. And that's when I met him. That's when I met up with Luke and we started finding our friends for the after or we re-opted.

[00:02:21] So Luke, you want to? Yeah, you're good. My brother's in Christ. May I say, person for me, Gary, and he all are both looking amazing. Was that? You're all we're both looking amazing. I'm a little... I'm a little... I'm a little cleaned up myself.

[00:02:43] Got a little tan with that... That's quite seen you on tan. Oh, he got this cast. That's it. Yeah, so I got this cast. So... Get out of the talk world. Where were we at? I'm going to get out of the water.

[00:02:58] Yeah, I'm going to get out of the water. And we hear kids in the background. So we want to... Well, you know as they say, God works in mysterious ways and the Lord had a very particular path for me to take.

[00:03:14] He put the passion of football in my heart. Of course, as you know, coming out of high school, you when I really had a passion for football. Of course, move to Boulder to try to play football for... See you football program, which of course now was taken off.

[00:03:29] I feel like we might have been jipped a little bit out of the experience there. But besides the point, the Lord put a woman in my life named Molly Daule. And of course, we fell in love immediately.

[00:03:41] And we'd have two wonderful little rug rats that keep me patient and teach me grace on a daily basis. And we now live in four cones. And so awesome. So when are you gonna come scream on a track? You know?

[00:04:02] If I had a my way, it would be tomorrow. Luke and I are biological brothers. James and I are brothers by choice. My oldest friend as far as I can call it. Yeah. Right, right. Luke, I don't know if you're volumes down.

[00:04:20] I'm trying to turn it out, but he really hear you. I don't know if you're answering that. So, this was where we were talking to. Is that our history? Yes, I did. We had five kids. We had six kids. Six kids. The native of the ages. Five kids.

[00:04:46] Five kids. Five kids. Eight on the planet. And they always had some sense since it's in seption. And there's a lot of evidence for that. Which you kind of would like to be starting.

[00:05:00] eveningly like it crosses offensive the name of Jesus is offensive if he ever tried to talk to somebody about a gospel, that's the most expensive thing he can ever do. you can ever do because Jesus is one thing but if he started talking about why he came,

[00:05:16] why he's coming back then he there's not, you know, don't go too far with it. You can say Jesus loves you but you know, don't go too far with it. I'm not going to hell, you know,

[00:05:27] I'm not a sinner in that sense, you know, you might need a Jesus but I don't, you know, I'm a lot of different ways they need shading, you know, so I talk to people who don't believe

[00:05:39] they need to save your or from. Right, so basically what my problem was in a feeling that I have one, one second you know, it's all good we got this. Sorry, my blessings from the Lord are

[00:06:04] are wanting to be known on the podcast. Like as I was telling Luke yesterday, I just feel as if anytime Jesus comes out of my mouth, the name of Jesus comes out of my mouth that it feels

[00:06:19] offensive to the listener. I once had the privilege of knowing a woman that I worked with back in Colorado Springs actually will save her name as Hannah. The very first word she ever

[00:06:34] said out on mouth is, hey, do you know you're going to hell before she ever met me before she ever got my name before she knew anything about my faith and my relationship with Jesus Christ,

[00:06:43] you said, do you know that you're going to hell? And that was an offensive statement to me, obviously even as a believer at the moment, I could have potentially thrown her a strange

[00:06:55] saying, no, no, you know I have relationship with Jesus Christ but in the moment that was such an offensive statement and it feels like anytime you talk with an acquaintance of yours, you use

[00:07:09] the name of Jesus in a regular conversation. It almost just feels that offensiveness. It almost just feels like you're immediately condemning them for whatever reason. One of my go-to is just asking someone you know oftentimes I just find myself particularly liking to a person. I like

[00:07:29] that person in general so I just want to know, you know, hey, do you love Jesus when they hear that statement that question it throws them off and they feel condemned if you'll put on this

[00:07:38] spot and I just want to know why what is it, what has it in the human spirit of today's day and age that we are so conditioned to recoil at the name of Jesus Christ?

[00:07:50] Yeah. Well I would answer that with just the gospel in itself is offensive to us as people I was, you know, most religions if you say like Buddha or I don't know, Taoism or whatever whatever leader other religions have it doesn't offend them because all these religions have

[00:08:24] different. You know essentially the same moral standard that we talk about, you know, be a good person, do good things, be nice to people but Jesus and the gospel is the only one that says hey you have

[00:08:38] separated yourself from God in this name is the only way that you can be saved. There's no other pathway so I think when people hear, you know, the gospel or Jesus it's a form of hey you're,

[00:08:59] you know, yes you have separated yourself by your sin from the God who created you and he is the only way that you can be saved. Not your good works, not just being a kind person, not just

[00:09:15] you know saying good things or showing up to church every Sunday like this name is the only name that will save us and so I think just like with just the gospel message the good news we know

[00:09:30] that it's offensive to people but there's also on the other side there's it's good news right? It's it's our only way of being it's our only hope Jesus is our only hope and so I think as a

[00:09:44] culture sometimes we make you know hell sound bigger and then we don't even increase the value of the name of Jesus. We forget to do that or just like all you're going to help like you need Jesus and

[00:09:59] it's like well nobody even knows who Jesus is like you're not sharing like what that value is there's so much value in Jesus and following him and and and him transforming us and so we just we

[00:10:15] there's a little bit of in our culture of just focusing so much on how we've been separated and we forget the value of discipleship with Jesus which is our only hope. So if I may say it sounds like

[00:10:32] what you're saying is there's almost like an aspect of exclusivity that like people don't really necessarily like you if you believe in Jesus you must only believe in Jesus whereas Buddhism, Taoism Hinduism all these other love let's just call it what they are fake religions

[00:10:51] it's almost as if like hey this is what we preach this is what we think but whatever you think it's it's all cool but when it comes to Christianity when it comes to the faith in Jesus Christ

[00:11:00] it's the exclusivity that if you believe in Jesus you must not believe in many of these other things that Jesus is the only way is that what you're saying why it sounds so offensive

[00:11:11] and like the first commandment I love God he's the only God you have no idea you know I just yeah I do the belief that by all this very clear like Jesus is the way the prison alive he's the only way that's the effect

[00:11:31] if I may review I think there's that's a part of it it is the exclusivity that once you believe in Jesus you must not believe in anything else what I honestly believe is that the core of it

[00:11:46] is is the truth you know when someone talks about Buddhism when someone talks about Hinduism we're allowed to kind of listen out of a fruitality of just saying I know this is false and therefore I'm allowed to entertain it because I know that it is false

[00:12:07] it's almost as if someone's talking to you about their horoscope you know I'm saying like oh hey I'm a Pisces therefore and you're like yeah sure whatever but when you talk about the name of

[00:12:17] Jesus Christ you know that it's truth and you know even even if you may not answer do you love Jesus even if that answer is no deep inside the heart I mean

[00:12:31] the truth of God is in the heart of all men right so when you hear the name of Jesus Christ you must now respond knowing that it is truth we're talking about it's not just that I'm a Scorpio you know I'm saying

[00:12:44] and that's what I think is the true root in the offense in the name of Jesus Christ yeah yeah and I think you can you can kind of gauge but I don't think you have to be like super

[00:12:58] aggressive all the time but that's the other thing is the other religions don't have a solution to to why we are separated from God or why we've failed with his standards you know all the other

[00:13:12] religions are you know Buddhism like Buddha doesn't help you in your fallenness you know it's like you can do you know you can do nice things but you know what about all the what about the things

[00:13:27] that you didn't what about the times that you weren't kind of people or the times that you weren't you know or the times that you did hurt people it's like there's no solution for any

[00:13:37] of the other religions and that's why it's like it's like Jesus is our only way and he regenerates us into a to a person of his likeness this is the only religion that that does that or it's the only

[00:13:50] it's the only time that we see transformation within a person so so my other question obviously where I want to pivot into is how do we go about evangelizing folk in the most sensitive way

[00:14:13] how do we invoke the name of Jesus without without having people recoil because I found in my personal life even folk that do love Jesus have a hard time answering the question and maybe I do

[00:14:27] maybe I come on a little bit more offensive than I think I do maybe I do but when I ask the question do you love Jesus to me that's that that's a much easier question to answer than are you Christian

[00:14:39] to me because I believe that there's there's a stigma behind the name of Christianity and that's that sucks and that's something we have to deal with as a church of course but when I ask the question

[00:14:49] do you love Jesus I don't think it's a matter of religion or Christianity or the walls and the confounds of a church do you go to church or whatever um so how do we go about appropriately

[00:15:02] evangelizing folk I guess is the question without without being offenses without being dramatic I guess and just having a casual conversation with folk well yeah I think that's what I've I've been learning with teaching because now I'm working at my church with young adults 18 to 25

[00:15:21] year olds and there's an interesting thing that we're seeing in the church is people are saying their Christian but they're not being a disciple of Jesus they're not following him so there's like

[00:15:35] this culture there's like this culture term of yes I'm a Christian I believe in Jesus but we also have to preach that following Jesus means you're going to change you're not going to be the same person

[00:15:48] that you were and it takes and it does it takes work um and so I don't really remember your question but just mostly from what I'm seeing is people are just using the term Christian just feel better

[00:16:06] about maybe some of their lifestyle currently they're maybe their poor lifestyle but we're not teaching people that hey yes you can come to Jesus as you are but there's going to be a transformation

[00:16:21] process and Jesus says like if you love me you will do my commandments and so there's just this process of uh and I I love what you're saying is asking people do you love Jesus rather than

[00:16:38] saying your Christian because I just I literally just read a statistic today that said like 68% of America says they're Christian but they did like a study and only like it's hard to gauge who's like actually a Christfaller but 68% say they're Christian but like only by 4%

[00:17:00] actually say they're disciples of Jesus like they're they're in prayer they're reading the word of God they're actually saying I'm going to stand on the things that Jesus teaches I'm going to stand on

[00:17:12] his word he's my Lord and so um I thought that was interesting today with what I heard was it's like man a lot of America says they're Christian but there's this there's this very few

[00:17:22] that are actually uh I would say Christfaller and so I love that answer of saying like do you love Jesus do you want to know Jesus like I love the emphasis of following him rather than just saying

[00:17:36] a word part of this club come join our club so how do we as disciples of Jesus how do we appropriately approach evangelizing Luke do you want to answer that? Oh I mean honestly I think the best answer I can use you have to consult the Holy Spirit

[00:18:09] throughout your your ministry if you're going to go tell people about God and about Jesus Christ and it says we're going to be persecuted for doing that um if you're going to talk about it

[00:18:22] it's your job or somewhere else better than ready to have consequences for that um you know it's coming against your day I don't think you knew this but in Israel in 2023 they

[00:18:34] enacted a law where you can't um you can't preach Christianity in public and you could be subject to one up one year in prison and we're doing that um in the name of Christianity

[00:18:49] and so we got kind of conflated with oh you can't say Jesus any more in stuff and that's where people got that idea from but to the honest when I went through visit Israel in

[00:19:01] 2016 wait yeah yeah 2016 it was already I mean they told us before what you got to find don't but don't process the ties which means don't go out and try to remember anybody don't preach we're here if they ask you why we're coming to they're asking why you're visiting

[00:19:20] on your here for vacation you know or tourism you don't say I'm here with a turt if you don't say I'm here with this name of a turt and this in that because our name was Orhaiy which means

[00:19:34] the light I think or a lot of life and it would have been like you know but uh or some of them are more bland this big issue you know house of the issue and that would have been a great flag right

[00:19:48] there for them than not even less coming to country but um so that's the extreme side of not being able to reach certain people because of certain boundaries we have you know so the whole experience I think honestly

[00:20:10] why would you want to go into battle without your in captain meeting you into into actual strategy to the point because it may not be a mistake I think we don't think about like this often enough but we think about it as that's my friend or as my

[00:20:28] coworker I know them to a certain extent where it's like I just want to I want to help them feel bad and save them from you know suffering but you don't see all the demonic forces that are

[00:20:40] in camp around that person and you don't see the unseen realm it's just fighting and worrying nonstop and we don't see them we can't see it you know there's a spiritual war going on right around us all the time and sometimes it manifests itself physically through people's actions

[00:20:58] and their emotions and things like that and you kind of get that you know fear of like oh gosh there's something you can hear but uh so the whole experience I think is honestly

[00:21:08] like the key first step in knowing how every situation is not going to be the same that's why it's cute you know when we were kids when they gave us little tracks to hand out and we were like

[00:21:19] and especially when we were in you know finale and they always told Japanese so we had tracks that were written in Japanese uh Kotikana or something and uh we gave it to them and it

[00:21:31] had the gospel on it and they would just respect their teamwork spectacle cannot take it so they took it you know I don't know if they got anything out of it but that's that's kindergarten stuff

[00:21:41] you know you're not doing anything with it um so I think you know you gotta put some legs on your honor evangelism that's what you're gonna call it if that's what you're gonna do

[00:21:54] and I never liked to turn evangelists because I think we're all supposed to be that way you know to tell what to the insularith and preach the good news to all of creation

[00:22:03] and uh make them disciples just like I've done to you know teaching everything I've got you and love for now so for my son I don't know if that's been a part

[00:22:30] like with me I like to share my story a lot and I read a lot how and the Bible talks a lot about teaching with gentleness and not um like like teach uh what where was I reading this

[00:22:52] first Peter 315 says communicate the message of salvation with gentleness and respect so it's like it's like that's a great way is as we as a culture we want like I hate the people who yell

[00:23:08] like hold up the signs and just want to like yell at people like like you're a sinner like it's like dude like but it's hard to not feel that way when you're when you're talking about Jesus

[00:23:21] yeah but it's just like it's like you don't want to you don't want to do that like the Bible does not cause to be like that so you know you want to you want to you want to speak the truth

[00:23:32] but you want to do it in gentle and respectful way you want to listen to other people you want to listen to their perspective and also you know Jesus says you will know them by their fruit and

[00:23:43] you know I just I just really believe that if we're if we're truly following Christ and we're truly you know seeking repentance and salvation it will produce good works where people will see like hey what is this

[00:23:59] person doing differently um and I think that's a great evangelist tool is follow Jesus like with all of your heart and it will produce works that will that people that might attract people to go like hey this person's doing something differently rather than just yelling at people and

[00:24:21] their hypocrites because their life looks completely the opposite of what Jesus would probably want them to be. First sure so exactly what you're saying is what I was trying to get out

[00:24:31] for sure and what I hear from you Luke is of course every scenario is going to be different you got to feel out every single relationship you have you got to consult a Holy Spirit with every

[00:24:41] single relationship you have and feel it out and feel it out in that moment but I love what James is saying and what I'm thinking is before we even bring up Jesus I recently started a new job

[00:24:56] and I'm carpooling with six or seven guys on average and the Holy Spirit put in my heart to try to talk about Jesus the other day and I just I couldn't bring myself to funny speaking Peter James

[00:25:08] you know the thought of Peter denying Jesus three times before the rooster grows right and I didn't bring up Jesus and I know there's a difference between omitting Jesus' name then denying Jesus' name but I just felt in my heart for whatever reason that I needed to

[00:25:29] I needed to just speak a little bit more love and more life into the situation and into these relationships that I was cultivating with these people before I actually talk about Jesus so I

[00:25:38] guess what I really want to talk about is how do we go about loving folk first before we start leading folk to Jesus which I just feel like we just need to practice love speech you know what I'm saying

[00:25:54] which by the way did I did I mentioned y'all are looking terrific today y'all are just so handsome you know what I'm saying just just just hit people with love I know that sounds so crunchy it sounds so

[00:26:06] hippy but if we're not bringing in love speech then what are we doing why why are we even going to bring people to Jesus at all and I think another part of why Jesus is such a

[00:26:17] costward why Jesus is such a a tough subject is because every one of us myself included I mean I'm a plumber I'm in the blue collar industry we practice the opposite of love speech we use

[00:26:33] profanity we talk like sailors we may be talk about some very uncouth stuff that is it is beyond profanity and when you have those conversation with these folk and that's the that's the relationship

[00:26:45] that you're cultivating with these folk when you bring up Jesus it's almost invalid so when when gentlemen when gentlemen Chris was just talking about his relationship with women of course if I bring up Jesus two days later he feels

[00:27:07] unable to take the name of Jesus and essence become here denying the name of Jesus even one gentleman Chris made love Jesus you know what I'm saying so we need to practice this love speech

[00:27:18] if for nothing else to keep other folk away from I don't want to call it hate speech obviously that's that's a turn that means something different but on coup speech you know what I'm saying

[00:27:31] when we cultivate these relationships based on on coups speech that's when Jesus really becomes a cussward because we're not allowed to talk about Jesus on coups speech is our normal day today conversation yeah I said this is a bit of a funny I'm guilty of using

[00:27:50] profanity and it worked in all of the fields you know but there's a certain extent that I would always stop it you know in this like I mean I think we know you know our hards what's right and wrong

[00:28:03] what's you know too far to talk you know like the represent god and things like that I mean but yeah like you're saying you know one of the person look at your life sees your

[00:28:17] sees your situation sees how you and act or something and the reason they don't want to accept crisis because they don't want what you have they see what you have and they don't like it

[00:28:27] see what you see how you act you know um you're as motons ever how you react to certain things or don't react to them and they are taking those on all of those things and that's better

[00:28:38] if they know your believer or not people are doing that you know just like a kid does to their parents you know imprinting you know you're imprinting on your coworkers you work with them so many

[00:28:48] hours a day a year and I mean you know it's very easy to get an echo chamber where you bounce off of each other and you don't ever get anywhere into a spot where you can talk about that

[00:29:01] now because you've gotten so far off being pet but to be mature enough to say hey you know I actually don't actually don't act like that you know most of the time you know I'm just doing that to be

[00:29:13] cooler on you I'm just being honest there's something you know like you can do that to break guys and the only one man I just I mean I'm not like that you know or something but

[00:29:24] I like talking about this because it's more important than me and but they don't care you know they don't want what you have so why would they you know if they ask you the question

[00:29:34] if I say this prayer or if I do these things by end of like you and if you say yes then they shake their head or recoil that you know that you're not living right you're not walking

[00:29:44] them on yeah it's not something they desire to have you know yeah he's your saying so you're kind of on the on the train of you want to build a relationship with someone before you

[00:29:59] maybe evangelize is that what you're saying it's not even necessarily that but it I mean half yeah with I would say with most people for sure if you can't if you can't get intimate

[00:30:15] in a conversation with someone then what does the name of Jesus mean anyway um I mean the other day my wife and I were checking out at Walmart we're getting checked out at Walmart and uh the woman

[00:30:28] was you know she loved Jesus and she wanted to talk to every single person that checked out at her about Jesus and even though I of course said yeah we love Jesus and her family you know we know

[00:30:39] Jesus and she said oh yeah praise God praise God all except it's still felt like such a shallow conversation I was having with another believer you know saying and it's not that it wasn't a good conversation that's the same right now that's that's all

[00:30:54] fine and but you don't know someone's trials and tribulations if you don't know they're true tumult and if they don't know your true tumult what does the name of Jesus mean in a conversation with

[00:31:05] someone who doesn't know Jesus so yes I do believe you need to build a relationship with someone but I want to go back to what loop was saying of course hey buddy can you give me one second

[00:31:16] give me one second buddy thank you go back to what loop was saying and we have to practice we have to practice bringing people to Jesus who are speech that is not about music

[00:31:30] we need to practice not just love speech but neglecting on kouth speech with these folk because if we if we engage in on kouth speech with these folk we're never going to be able to bring

[00:31:43] anybody to Jesus so yeah of course we have to build relationships with these folk during before and after we tell them that we love Jesus. That's the thing must be the angel is I don't know

[00:31:59] how much actually disciple the people that they tell the gospel to after the thing kind of like you know how many people have you talked to about the gospel did you actually

[00:32:12] disciple them you know or did they go their own way you went away and they went together you know so you might need you know you plan to see but if you had the opportunity to water it also

[00:32:23] and God wants in delight I mean that's how he said it first actually disciple one another yeah I was just I'm just thinking about in my own experiences sharing about Jesus to strangers

[00:32:44] like like Luke you were talking about like the Holy I really think her does give us strength for boldness to share with people and that's something we can pray for also is more as

[00:32:59] as God how can it be more bold in sharing about Jesus even when it's uncomfortable but for me being able to share about Jesus even to strangers has been strengthened by two things

[00:33:15] is just it's just spending private time in prayer and getting to know like Yahweh God himself and just in building a relationship with God and loving and following I guess more falling

[00:33:30] more in love with God in my private time that's made it easier to be more bold with strangers and then also you know learning the word of God the Bible knowing the word helps with

[00:33:46] sharing about Jesus it helps you you know backup maybe some of the claims that you're making so I just I really I really I guess my advice he's also is is yeah you know we

[00:34:01] we want to we do still want to be bold at times and I guess you know and I really think the Holy Spirit will help you to help discern with those times but I think it's become

[00:34:14] the more I spend private time in prayer and the more I understand the word of God the easier it becomes a share about Jesus even to strangers yeah wow I'm glad you said that dude because

[00:34:28] I think that's one of the biggest boundaries for a lot of believers and I know I I felt like this at times also where I felt like I didn't really feel connected with God

[00:34:41] on that level which you're saying you know thinking it's a word in praise and get closer to him is going out tremendously but most people are out there telling people about I God they're

[00:34:51] guy even close to you. Do you hear any of that he's yeah sure this I'm I'm building building and unmuting my mic as I try to speak um yeah for sure I mean we obviously every single day

[00:35:05] we need to be in prayer with God we need to be toiling with God and what is word is with us you know I'm saying I truly believe that there is a moment in time where perhaps God's work through you

[00:35:25] may have been in the past and we need to be present we need to be poiling with him on a daily basis and praying with him on a daily basis because our mission our

[00:35:36] work with him could be today it could have been yesterday and we could have missed it so yeah of course we need to be building our relationship with God and Jesus as well for sure also we shall know

[00:35:51] for sure I mean our fellowship is super important yeah I just I just I believe just with me specifically I've been able to establish a more I don't know I don't know what you want to call it just

[00:36:08] like a cleaner boldness way of sharing the gospel to people and it grows the more I'm just spending private time with God in reading the word and spending time with other believers

[00:36:22] and building that fellowship and you know working on it in my life it just becomes it's it seems to become easier I don't know if that's the word I don't know if it's easier

[00:36:43] fruitful for sure and I want to say for all the listeners out there I know that you and Luke and myself we all believe this too but we need to stop ourselves as Christians from being pigeonholed to only

[00:36:59] building relationships with people inside of our fellowship it's probably it's probably super easy for me in Luke because we work in Luke all our jobs and you know we're out there dealing with I say

[00:37:13] very sarcastically the salt and fear we're talking to these people on a daily basis so we are we are bringing you know we're talking to people that are outside of the cozy compounds of the walls

[00:37:27] of our church but what I'm what I would like to tell to the listeners out there is you're not doing the Lord's work by only talking about the Lord to people who already follow Jesus

[00:37:41] we got to get we got to break out of the safe cozy four walls of the compounds of our fellowship of our church and yeah I mean I agree I think that's part of our American Christian

[00:37:54] culture is we just it's very comfortable or we don't even share at all you know that's the other thing is you know we just go to church on Sundays and then that's and then that's like oh we

[00:38:08] check mark that's it that's all we're doing so yeah I agree man you know there's more than it was four walls of the church you know like almost like everyone on the outside has leprosy

[00:38:23] or something so you know can't talk to them when we've heard or something it's just let alone be a for me friend somebody who doesn't have the same belief system that you do

[00:38:39] yeah I don't want to talk about everything but I like how we were talking about the other religions and now they you can go into more detail on a lot of them but I just think basically

[00:38:49] just at base of the alleys real quick I'll say you know these other religions that used to ones like Buddhism and you know other really selfish religions they're all focused on you

[00:39:03] in your karma and how you can live and be reincarnated and if you do good things then this will be given to you and then you'll look at religions like Judaism some of is long but

[00:39:17] you know but then also the Christian you know faith it's all about sacrificing yourself for your brother and sister you know like you later like no greater love is you know than he who lives

[00:39:32] his life down for his friends and you know it's a valor sacrificing your flesh you know you have to die to your sin and die here old flesh even be reborn and these other religions don't even

[00:39:46] you know scrape the surface of that commitment and that's why that's why it's so scary for most people they know what the commitment is you know everyone's been given a conscience and they

[00:39:59] from birth and they've picked up on it this a this time in their life is this is what that you know faith is all about and they know what the commitment is you know there's a caveat you know just

[00:40:13] you know just say a prayer and you know all of a sudden this dandelions and in fairies all around you know it quite the opposite actually especially outside country because people who are still

[00:40:25] dying in the space and people die and they're still dying in one who are we tonight talking about for the profess that's free the free air it's the has this gift people died for the love

[00:40:53] if i may say Luke i think you might be talking and my goodness are you so handsome i think you maybe have in a little bit of a perspective bias on that just by saying like that the

[00:41:04] Buddhism and all these other pagan religions i mean that you're saying that they are selfish i mean people that subscribe to that type of faith they are looking at us and saying the exact same thing

[00:41:16] you know i'm saying we're just doing all this stuff just to get a salvation of heaven that's the only reason we do all this stuff i try to avoid that kind of

[00:41:26] talking see i'm not I'm not going i'm not really going on I'm not taking an opinion that much i'm going off with teaching and going off the back of a doctor and dogmas from the religious teachings

[00:41:39] and yes for shianny you know all of the all of the um precepts are all laws that you got has given us and has laws that do to you know borrow from

[00:41:52] you know other things to say something to do about you know how you can reach a lightning if that's your goal in life then yes that's it you know that you don't care about anyone else

[00:42:03] that's saying you don't what you're saying you're putting all your energy and all your eggs on that you know it's just like Hinduism they have a million gods they're not one of them you know not one of them okay

[00:42:18] for an answer is greater you know sure but i would just i mean i i think you're just working off of a little bit of perspective bias i think that they they believe that they're being totally

[00:42:27] selfless and that we're being totally selfish you know i would avoid those type of conversations with people that that subscribe to those type of pagan religions and i would just try to stick to

[00:42:36] what you know to be the truth i mean we just know as i'm not going i'm not saying to go get that for somebody who really believes that faith i'm just telling you that i'm just i'm just putting in on a

[00:42:49] then diagram for you right click just just side by side you know i'm saying Christianity so you need i'm telling why why it though you know why we're starting this you know why so i think why people

[00:43:03] are not willing to yes it's the Christian churches the people that you know not really representing Christ like you know and being hypocrites but it's also he's very fact based you know truth

[00:43:15] the face well not perfect but this face does and that's what and then James said you know to be bold and are if you should be able to tell people uh are you know that's it just an

[00:43:27] extent like hey you don't care what the reaction is i mean you you're gonna be really upset and and hurt if they never talk to you again but that's what Jesus was telling is a cyphos you have to

[00:43:38] leave your mother and brother father and mother behind there you're not really all you have to pick up your cross and follow me so this you know that's where there were roots to grow it honestly

[00:43:48] not anything put that tire on the last one yeah i was i think with if there's a if you're a true follower of Christ there's gonna be a there should i think there should be a sense of humility

[00:44:05] in the way that you preach Christianity you're not gonna say or all like i'm doing this so that i can get to have a thing we all need this like i needed this i'm broken i'm still broken i still need

[00:44:19] Jesus like like i i really believe from the from the people that i've really seen that are truly following Jesus there's this sense of there's just this great sense of humility like saying hey

[00:44:31] i'm not any better than you i'm not doing anything that's that's that's better than what you're doing i'm saying i'm broken i'm in i'm a sinner i'm in need of grace from god and i really i

[00:44:45] truly believe that's i that you should see a sense of humility from true true Christ followers and that's really great that concept of humility yeah for sure for sure i think i think in the

[00:44:57] gospel when you're sharing the gospel to people you need to put yourself like lower yourself and say hey i was broken i'm still broken like i found peace and joy and hope in Jesus and i'm just sharing

[00:45:14] that with you and i i think we all need this and so i think that's a huge sign of evangelism that we need to we need to find is just being humble with with who we are recognizing that we're all

[00:45:30] broken and that this is our only way of salvation that's i mean that's dude that's the biggest point right there that's the biggest point that we need to hit for sure i mean when we're trying to evangelize

[00:45:43] people like the LGBT community that that type of folk or even or even god bless the folk that that hold abortion is as a as a pious act you know we need to really hit that humility

[00:46:00] that we're broken i'm not better than you i've never claimed to be better than you but but let hey let me tell you about this super tight dude named Jesus Christ and then you know

[00:46:12] once we get into once once we cultivate a relationship at that person with Jesus Christ then maybe we can talk to them about like hey abortion is human sacrifice stuff like that but before that moment

[00:46:24] when you talk about how we ourselves are dirty and we have been making clean to use this Christ for sure i mean i think that's the biggest biggest point for sure at hit james yeah i think i i

[00:46:35] focus on your own salvation yeah i've noticed that even with like the LGBT community also because we have that at our church as well is i by sharing about Jesus i've been like hey like i'm not

[00:46:49] and my sins not like lesser than yours like we're all sinners we're all needing we're all in need of grace let's let's walk through this together let's you know let's let's follow Christ together

[00:47:05] we're like i'm i'm no better so that that's what's been helping with with sharing with people that our trans or LGBT has been you know like hey join this journey that i'm on

[00:47:19] and following Christ and and and finding hope and finding grace in my sin right right yeah i mean i think i think they're expecting the church to want them to do a underneath return before they even

[00:47:36] walk in the door because they're going to be just well i mean because they are judged you know they're whole life you know for for doing those types of things and so lifestyle that they

[00:47:48] chose but you know along with that lifestyle comes ready fuel a lot of times and you know unfortunately hate and so they're expecting that right when they try to reach out to some sort of

[00:48:00] faith and they know they need that faith or they wouldn't be there in the first place you know so you're supposed to plant the seed you know they're there for a reason i've met some more

[00:48:11] too than i just i just loved on them you know and then you even talked about them then they they were homeless too they were organic um transgender you know they were going through a lot of

[00:48:23] stuff on the streets and the had a talk to somebody but they were they were already screaming for Jesus instead of putting it on like again you know and just i didn't have to go down that

[00:48:37] road i just heard show them what they probably weren't ever shown by anyone else in the church before you know like this was the day they thought it will be different this time

[00:48:47] and you get to be that person to show them it is different we have you know it's not we aren't we we're not the past judgment i think you know um that's the last thing i was going to say is like

[00:49:02] uh i think the John the Baptist complex or something gets a hold of these people there's street preaching they use that as probably their main example because we're else you get that from

[00:49:13] any scripture um and she would didn't do that um and but John the Baptist he had a platform to be able to you know prepare the way for the Messiah um that people think they're

[00:49:27] they're calling and they were born for that you know for that reason and they're doing battle against the devil and all kinds of things and i'm like man here you're probably already the scene if you think that you're not helping anybody you're actually hurting your people

[00:49:42] yeah i think about with uh we're running out of time i want to i want to be a mindful piece of your time but um i think about the woman called an adultery and all the Pharisees you know condemning her

[00:49:59] and it wasn't that Jesus is preaching that we're not supposed to judge people for their lifestyles is that we're not supposed to judge people with uh judging by being hypocrites and so it's like when you think of the woman called an adultery it's like these guys are condemning

[00:50:18] when they're all presenting adultery probably Jesus probably knows that they're all committing adultery and they're all screaming at her let he without sin they're all screaming at her to that she's a sinner and so like that's i think that's what gets twisted in our Christian

[00:50:34] culture like don't judge people just just love them and tell it you know it's like it's like whoa we still want to we still want to discern you know lifestyles that are sending people

[00:50:45] you know down a horrible path we still want to just want to use that but we also don't want to be you don't want to you know you want to you know you want to know your sin and have humility first

[00:51:00] before there that's somebody's mouth is doing you know everything wrong in their life so i think that's kind of that's what's really helped me is as understanding what Jesus did yeah i'm not a daughter

[00:51:18] i love it dude yeah let he without sin cast the first son right and i i think that's what it's all about there's no reason to start judging people that don't know i said that don't love Jesus Christ

[00:51:30] let them know and build a relationship with Jesus before we try to pull this flinter out of our brothers and sisters eyes is what i think is the biggest point and also if i i'm glad we're getting closer

[00:51:39] closing statements um what i want to say also is i mean i i especially feel kinder to the LGBT community i really do and i want i know we are not the orthodoxy church

[00:51:55] that i want it to be known i want to talk about i want to spread love for all people of course but spread a little bit of knowledge a little bit of we need to be aware we need to be

[00:52:09] not tone deaf to our own inconsistent teachings the LGBT community are out here and of course they think what they're doing is is appropriate and well and they think that they're doing what is

[00:52:22] a good for their own flesh um the Bible teaches in the Old Testament about a lot of ancestors and a lot of polygamy and a lot of it that's not addressed as appropriately as it probably should be

[00:52:34] and we all know that as believers today and in the modern day and age um let's not be tone deaf to the sexual misconduct of the Bible and try to approach the sexual misconduct of the LGBT

[00:52:49] community without first coming and approaching with love and just trying to cultivate a relationship with Jesus Christ and we also see in the Bible how much God uses a lot of those generations like great and polygamy and in every sense like the faith in the God using

[00:53:15] these people for his glory so we see that also and i like to you mentioned that the LGBT community is it's you know feeding your flesh i really don't as Christians we don't even understand that it's like it's yes it's it's a fleshly desire this that has grown

[00:53:40] that has grown and grown and grown and grown and so like that's why I believe we need to stop just being like oh they're just they're over there doing their thing it's like no man we're all sinners

[00:53:49] and need a grace like this is like i'm a slave to my flesh too let's let's let's let's I want to I want to share Jesus with you like I must say to my flesh I have different

[00:54:03] I have different addictions well let's do that that's what's been helping me share that with people who are apart of that community I guess then hey look before before we get out of here

[00:54:16] before we close I want to hit you with probably one of the most wise words I've heard in a long time these these words are our wiser than the words of the Bible sarcasm of Matt

[00:54:28] right I guess Prince Red do not let your words become the grenade that blows everyone away you know what I'm saying we need to learn that as evangelists also do not push people away

[00:54:39] with our words and also I want to say a moment ago before we even hopped on this before we were talking there was a force out there there was impeding me from texting y'all that hey I need

[00:54:52] a few more minutes because the kids are acting all wild and it kept closing out my messaging app as I was trying to talk you guys and let me just tell you if I didn't have in static empirical

[00:55:04] evidence that the enemy was specifically targeting us and finding neverland to keep their message from the world I don't know what is so keep doing y'all thing I'm so grace I'm so blessed to be in

[00:55:18] y'all's presence and to be equipped with y'all I'm pretty sure you guys have me on here and let's let's go spread the love of Jesus Christ let's go let's do it yeah this is really cool

[00:55:32] and yes the enemy likes to attack us in technology yeah yeah yeah yeah this I was like I'd want more to be a refugee I know exactly what did it yeah

[00:55:50] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure I love you guys so much I appreciate you guys have me on you guys keep doing your thing I don't want to spoil anything but y'all are playing

[00:56:12] Coachella 2025 right I think so let's go I'm saying next year Coachella's going on right now I'm saying y'all have already booked it for next year oh my bad I figured as much just work out

[00:56:33] the deeds hit me up although my playing flight we're good all right love you guys so much I'm going to get on out of here glory to God thank all the best to find and neverland love you guys

[00:56:49] thank you man so yeah well yeah yeah well yeah it's my little brother by three yeah little brother if anyone can believe it it's taller than I am about like six inches yeah he's a giant thank you guys for listening though this was really cool

[00:57:20] had a lot of good conversation a lot of good topics we shared so yeah I think this was a good show looks like Jason Grider said hey guys what's up man thanks for tuning in

[00:57:38] and and Mary said let's see what she come in Matthew 22 14 many are called the few are chosen in that in that percentage rate oh okay yeah so yeah I was sharing how different like

[00:57:57] a there was a study by a Christian university that found it seems to be about 68% of people say their Christian but it's probably closer to like 4% are actually following Christ which is

[00:58:13] crazy yeah well what the whole experience telling me the insert in their roof with when you were standing at the forehand but I couldn't because I was right enough and in service stuff I said

[00:58:26] you know the percentages of people who stay in their Christian and people who do this or like our legitimate believers you could break it down like percentage of those same

[00:58:38] people that read the Bible or have read the Bible on the past week or a year or month or two years had they gone to church in the last year or five years 10 years and you'd be sick and

[00:58:50] by the percentage is really just like wow these people really are following those things and they're following everyone else doing that's why no one really is facing it's a progress it's fine but you know you're staying at the percentages and you know something doesn't

[00:59:07] end up and that was just I think he's making on that just becoming the way we operate we all know we're not doing it so we're good you know we're all in the same club you know we

[00:59:19] know you know you know let our head here down well be and that feels so pressured because we're all guilty of the hypocrisy you're not taking it seriously enough but that's why the fellowship is so important to keep each other crowded in the right direction and strength

[00:59:39] and our faith with each other but I love what you said about praying and actually reading the word too and have it helps you I think I take that for granted sometimes honestly yeah me too

[00:59:53] I mean it's you never do it enough you know there's never enough prayer and there's never read the word enough but you know with grace and yeah so let's I guess let's say prayer

[01:00:12] and finish this episode we love you guys thank you so much for listening thank you for commenting and watching again we had Heath we were on tonight he's the the former vocalist

[01:00:24] the original vocalist of finding everything so super cool we didn't get we didn't get to talk much about that time but you know go follow him or something if he's on social media I don't even know

[01:00:39] he's on social media but yeah go ask him you can see some videos yeah there's all videos on YouTube you might be able to find but yeah let's say prayer and get out of here thank you guys

[01:00:59] happy Friday hope you all have in a good week how to good week excited about the weekend so thank you all all right I guess I'll pray Father thank you so much for this evening I just I just marvel at what you're what you're doing and how

[01:01:30] you're bringing you know finding never land and and bringing old people back we got you know justice says our drummer now I just I just marvel at that your hand and what what you're doing

[01:01:43] with this band in this podcast and we just thank you we thank you for your word and for your truce and thank you that your your grace continues to help us each and every week so

[01:02:03] God you're just you're good in your patient and you're kind and we're so thankful I just I want to I want to pray for a heath and his family I pray that you give heath

[01:02:16] more grace and more boldness and and sharing the gospel with co-workers and with family and just keep pouring yourself out to him and keep pouring yourself to it in his heart and and transforming

[01:02:34] him in a way that's in the way that you want you want to I pray for his his wife and his kids and his life and his career and we're just so thankful that he we were able to have him on here and

[01:02:49] share some of his insight and I could just feel your love towards him when when he's talking so yeah I just want to pray for heath and his family yeah thank you for this evening thank you

[01:03:10] for this podcast because continues to blow my mind each and every week and this band it just is unbelievable what you're doing God we love you we bless you thank you for guiding us and thank you for

[01:03:21] teaching us each and every week like this is your show and it just seems like we keep learning new things and and learning ways to share share your word and love others and our faith is just being

[01:03:39] stirred up each and every week and it's growing and so I think I just I thank you for this opportunity and how it keeps growing we just want to grow closer to you God we want to

[01:03:52] we want to fellowship with you more we want to hear your voice we want to we want to follow you so thank you for giving us grace to share to share your truth and to share your word

[01:04:13] I pray that you'll continue to transform me and Luke and guide us in our lives and in the band and so I pray for anybody listening that I hope this that some of the stuff that we share

[01:04:24] tonight captured some people and I pray that God you will invade their heart and and continue to pursue whoever's listening to this episode and you will just keep pursuing them relentlessly because you you are patient and you're also jealous you want your children

[01:04:46] to know you thank you father and Jesus name we pray amen amen thanks brother yeah well by I hope I got all that thank you guys so much for listening thank you for tuning in

[01:05:04] until next week we'll be back yeah I mean love you buddy we'll see you next week good brother yeah it was really cool to have have your brother on so yeah that was

[01:05:25] that was a cool episode so yeah keep praying for us we need your prayers as well yeah until next week talking this is episode 41 we'll see you guys next week let me bless and see you friends thank you for listening to this episode of the finding never

[01:05:53] land podcast we pray that you were challenged encouraged and uplifted as we seek to establish the kingdom of heaven if you are impacted by our band or if you would like to partner with finding

[01:06:06] neverland please email us at finding neverland band then the number seven at gmail.com