Waving Goodbye to NCAA Amateurism

[00:00:00] I called them another day, yesterday and he had the trophy smiling ear to ear and he's just holding the trophy. He said to me, he said, I don't know what I thought this was going to feel like but whatever I thought is way better.

[00:00:15] The following is a presentation of Hobson Media. It's not just another day, it's two day. This is the Church Pew Sports podcast featuring a group of pastors delivering bombastic takes on sports, life and faith. It likes to drink their hate or hate and eat their hate or thoughts.

[00:00:39] Take a knee. Lendon ear. And these are some of the best questions I've had to tell you that straight up. What is that special? As the Church Pew Sports podcast begins. It's funny how one man's terrible is another man's pure joy.

[00:00:58] And man next thing you somebody that gets to head it two days. Oh, no. All right. We got tomorrow. We got now. And we got now. We got you with us right now on Church Pew Sports.

[00:01:11] It is so good to have you along for the ride this summer time and thank you for subscribing for sharing the link with others in your world's sports fans and people of faith and those who need to be connected a bit more with all things that are positive.

[00:01:26] That's what we're doing. I was actually having a conversation with a professional athlete earlier today and trying to describe what it is we do on this podcast. We connect sports to life and faith. Bill Hopson here along with Pastor Paul Miller who joins as always.

[00:01:42] And he's a, over on the west side of Michigan. I think tonight I'm in the upper peninsula. We've got, we've got guests from all over the state and Paul, how have your travels been going? It's good to see you again in the zoom window.

[00:01:54] Right in the middle of this nice cool summer season that central Michigan has experience and right now. It's a little bit hot here. So travel has been great. I've been, I've been all over the place and I'm ready to

[00:02:12] I'm ready for us to get this household so we can have more of a normal rhythm. But in the meantime, I anchor myself in Church Pew Sports once a week. I know that I'm going to at least be able to get on the camera on the microphone and

[00:02:27] do what we do, Bill. Like you're talking about because it's fun. Yeah, it's fun and we're, we're a little bit looser with our schedule in the summer because everybody's traveling and we know you as listeners are as well. But there's some fairly

[00:02:39] sizable sports news items out there to talk about. And so super excited to have with us on the program. Pastor Nate Murray will get to his reason for involvement tonight here in just a moment.

[00:02:52] Troubling for those of us who call ourselves Pistons fans and it's been a while since we've had David Collins join us. Good to see you again, Mr. David. How are you? I'm doing great, Bill. Glad I could actually get this thing working.

[00:03:05] You're too young to have technology problems. That's for us all guys. Yeah, just, I mean, I wouldn't upload the videos. I don't know what you're going to do. Well, you can appreciate this. We're going to have Pastor Nate Murray with us for a few moments

[00:03:20] and I know that you are a diehard Piston fan. But somehow Nate Murray, who was the executive pastor at Hopevale Church in Sagittal, Michigan, got through the interview process without anybody asking whether or not he was a Celtics fan. And it slipped through the crunches, just

[00:03:39] slipped through the cracks essentially. So Paul, why don't you set up the new feature that we have tonight, especially for Nate? Yeah, the genesis of this thing is back when I was doing

[00:03:51] fantasy football, I would at times send out these snarky messages to all the guys in my eagony. I would always put the same subject line in which was any questions. And it was when

[00:04:04] I needed to talk a little trash or when I needed to remind them that I had just whipped up on all of them or whatever it was. And so we have this new feature that we want to do. From time to time,

[00:04:13] one of the friends of church Pew sports, their team rises up and gives them a reason to glow without conscience, without any need to be humble, without any need to have a filter.

[00:04:31] We want to give in this instance tonight we want to give you Nate permission to say everything you want to say about the Celtics. Anybody that will listen unfiltered, and at the end of

[00:04:43] whatever it is we'll have probably asked some questions for you. At the end of this few minutes a conversation here, hopefully you'll be able to just look at all of this and go, do you have any

[00:04:51] questions? That's how this will work. So I kind of yield the floor to you. I know it's been a not a part of your house since the Celtics ran over the Mass. So just talk to us about

[00:05:08] about how you're feeling these days, about your Celtics and everything else and then we have some questions for you. Well boys, the trophy is where it belongs. The trophy is back home, where it has rested for the majority of the NBA's lifetime. For the 18th time,

[00:05:30] the trophy rests in the hollowed halls of the Celtics were excited. Again officially it's top the NBA with the most championships and the history of the NBA we've actually held the title for quite some time because we all know that the Minneapolis Lakers don't count toward the

[00:05:49] Los Angeles Lakers total. But for those that are stupid enough to believe that they do, we are now officially a back top with 18 championships. It's been a beautiful season. As you all

[00:06:03] know, we were the best team from the beginning to the end. There was no doubt in the minds of any Celtics fans just how good we were. Think the top two offense and defense throughout the entire year.

[00:06:15] Beautiful game. They played all year long. If you love basketball, you should love the Celtics. Amazing defense and credible ball movement, selfless play just a beautiful game to watch. So very satisfying. It fills my world with hope that the trophies back where it belongs. It really was

[00:06:38] an amazing season to watch. And then especially for those of us that have been watching the Celtics for a long time now to see people like Brad Stevens, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, the players and the executives we've been watching for a long time to see them finally

[00:06:57] get past the threshold and celebrate a championship was really sweet. You saw the relief in Jason Tatum's face when he finally won. Just I think they've truly earned it. They really really have earned it

[00:07:11] and it's pretty sweet. So I'm not going to glow, but I am going to enjoy it. And as if I did anything other than act of noxious for the last 40 years of my life. But it was a lot of fun to watch

[00:07:27] it happen. And the beautiful part because we are pastors talking about all these things is that there's some incredible men that are a part of this team that love Jesus and are outspoken about what they

[00:07:41] believe and are actually trying to make a difference in the world too. So that's kind of the cherry on top. But I welcome your questions. Yeah, so the first thing I would have had. I'm here to teach you

[00:07:54] that. Yeah, that's the way. Yeah, that's a question. I saw the interview with Joe Masula where the very first thing he said was essentially what you just said which is hey all those that have gone

[00:08:04] before all those that have been building this culture and this roster, this team over the last several years he called out Brad Stevens and others and everything else. He wanted to make sure

[00:08:15] that all those guys got their props for being a part of the process. So I mean I'm sure that's probably always true. It feels like it might be more true than normal with the Celtics. Would you have

[00:08:27] that same observation? Well, yeah, I mean just Stevens himself if you think about was a Butler his time at Butler never quite got over the threshold in the college game and came to the Celtics was an incredible young coach. But Reyn smack into Kyrie Irving and that ended

[00:08:45] his 10 years coach. But then I mean just the work he's done as a GM. But yeah, I think none of these guys involved in this earned it overnight. I mean you even think about the additions with

[00:09:00] geralide and criss-stops and Derek White. Like even these guys that are newer to the team, they really have been playing and working and selling at a high level for a long time to get to this point.

[00:09:12] So it really is cool. I don't see a villain on this team. I really don't. And I think the more you get to know a lot of these players the easier it is to root for. Even if they're wearing green.

[00:09:24] David, is your heart equally as warmed by the Celtics title as mates? Do you have any questions for Nate? Well, I honestly like the way he's presenting it is actually really good because he is describing a lot of the stuff that I think is true about the team.

[00:09:42] There really isn't a villain. They were the best team in the league. All of that. I just I want to ask him like how rough is it are you a fan of other Boston teams or just the

[00:09:51] self the drought? No, I'm not a fan of other Boston teams. I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri. Some a huge cardinal span. We didn't really have any. Not historically, but lately. And Boston, we didn't have an NBA team growing up. So for me when I watched TV,

[00:10:12] back when I was a kid in the 80s, you could mean the only teams on TV were the Lakers, the Nicks, the Piston, some the Bulls and then the Celtics. You know those are the ones

[00:10:24] they featured and the Celtics were the ones that I was drawn to the most and then especially after I learned the history of the Celtics and you know Bill Russell all the way up through

[00:10:35] you know the O8 team that won the last championship. They just resonated with me and the Celtics way and Celtics pride. Anyway, you find the title in high definition so that's

[00:10:50] cool. You know Boston claims to be like the best but I mean it's been a little bit a little bit of time. A lot of time. I understand or doubt. The claim is the strange word to use since they have

[00:11:02] the most championships but yeah I think it's just it's just known a known fact that they're the best but and I am trying really hard. I probably already said we but I'm trying not to use the

[00:11:14] Royal Wii because I know how annoying that is. No not to me not to me like you go through it. Listen you got you you got a title like I am okay. I'm a Michigan National Champion all right so you can

[00:11:26] okay there you go. Prochanted. Yeah so when you reach the pinnacle and you get to the mountaintop at the same time as the fans in your current home market of the Great Lakes Bay Region of Michigan

[00:11:43] on this day of our recording just watched the Detroit pistons fire their coach the highest paid coach and NBA history after one disaster season knowing that they still owe him 65. I can hang out. Incredible. Let's give him a minute to spit this out. 65 million dollars

[00:12:06] to do nothing moving forward because of how disastrous a decision they made in begging him to coach the team we'll talk more about this with David in a couple moments but do you because of this this intense rivalry between Detroit and Boston at least used to be

[00:12:23] just that give you even more satisfaction in the title run. No you know I don't find satisfaction in other people's misery so I've got compassion for the lowly. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna laugh

[00:12:43] and you know enjoy the misery of pistons fans especially on days like today. I've respect for the pistons I respect for teams over the years from Detroit so man it's definitely unfortunate though

[00:12:59] right what a and they're gonna be paying the price now for five more years with him was that a six year contract. I don't even probably knows the details of this more it's it's just a debacle under

[00:13:13] the the Goris ownership let me give you a quick sound bite from Steven A Smith of all people talking about multi-wheelers. Monty Williams is obviously a god fair man very religious who would have you

[00:13:23] he needs to get on his knees and look up and think that has heavily fall though that he was let out of that this removal situation in Detroit. He could have been he couldn't be happier I know

[00:13:35] he's gonna be happy and obviously he's gonna have other opportunities down the line because that situation in Detroit was an absolute mess he regretted it from the time he got there it's just that

[00:13:45] something he'll never say for every David Collins the pistons news today does what for your piston loving heart. What the beautiful thing is what you pay coaches doesn't have anything to do with

[00:13:56] salary caps or anything like that so I mean as long as they're willing to get rid of that money I mean I'm fine whether it's not my money I think it's the right move I do believe what Steven A said

[00:14:08] a little bit there was correct I don't know if his heart was in it. It seemed like we convinced him to come to Detroit and he did it despite not necessarily being fully into it and so I think

[00:14:24] it's the right move for both parties going forward especially him because he gets 65 million over the next four years which is pretty impressive I'd love to get that payday to not work that people

[00:14:36] except I'm being reasons to be happy yeah exactly yeah but no I mean I think it's the right move ultimately he didn't really connect with the young players didn't really develop and I don't

[00:14:49] think he had the patience for it I don't think he really had the heart for it so in the end it's the best thing for both him and the organization going forward as much as it's like sad that you

[00:15:01] waste a year of Kate cutting him and all that like as far as his development and all that goes but I do appreciate what Nate said you know it's when you win you don't worry about the people

[00:15:11] the loss you worry about the fact that you got to win and I think that's really cool yeah okay so Nate here's my here's my other kind of deeper dive question I saw something that said Jason Tatem led the team in scoring

[00:15:26] rebounds in assists and Jaylen Brown was the finals MVP so I'm trying to figure out how that happens and I'm wondering if you could see a scatty Michael type train wreck relationship between

[00:15:40] the two of them up the road where jealousy and an inability to code this undoes them over time I mean you never know success has a way of ruining things sometimes but I think those two guys are

[00:15:56] truly brothers and I think they truly love and respect each other I think how Jaylen ended up with the MVP was he showed up in the important moments if it was just a statistical award Tatem would definitely win

[00:16:12] and it's also you know the MVP's a weird award because you're voting for the oftentimes the best statistics in just the finals but to me a finals MVP should truly be the

[00:16:23] most valuable player that got them there and sustained them there what Tatem did this year was incredible if you think about someone that I don't think he's a top five player but he has a top 10 player in the league

[00:16:35] how many top 10 players in the league would willingly sacrifice statistics in order to help their team win I don't think there's a lot of them that would do it and he routinely this year set aside his own glory so that the team could win

[00:16:51] and talked about it openly too you know why would I be selfishly trying to get statistics if that made harder for my team to win so Jaylen showed up offensively in some really key moments throughout the series and even the Indiana series too where Tatem was struggling

[00:17:10] so overall statistics are better but in really key moments Jaylen was just fearless and he kind of just put the team on his back and then the other thing with Jaylen that you saw

[00:17:20] at least in the finals is a especially game two and then game five game three he really took on a defensive workload that was incredible and especially in Gave five me he just smothered Luca and I think it's the work on the defensive in plus I'm showing up

[00:17:43] in the big moments that one of the award but I really do I agree that we have two Batman we have you know we have Batman and Superman I don't think it's a Batman and Robin situation

[00:17:54] and I really don't think when it comes to those two guys I don't think there's a ego between them and I hope that it doesn't change I hope success doesn't change that you never know but

[00:18:05] I think they've been through enough hell together that even success won't mess up the the friendship and respect they have for each other. What a luxury right to have two one A's on one team who will willingly give each other the spotlight in the glory I mean

[00:18:21] that's an amazing luxury but you don't find them sports very often. And for for those players on the Celtics to be able to overcome the incredible defensive intensity of Luca Donchick I think

[00:18:35] was astounding it is not easy to dribble around a traffic cone so well put yeah well just hey um may your team never endure 28 game losing streak congratulations and you are welcome to

[00:18:51] glow for at least 14 more seconds and then it's over then we're on to Cincinnati we're on to next year we're moving on but I can't really bring myself second-gratch to the Celtics but I can

[00:19:02] congratulate my friend Nate for a well deserved championship run and I cannot wait to see your ring on ring night. Well in my last 15 seconds I will just say that I pray that my piston

[00:19:19] friend my piston my friends that are piston fans we get that out of my mouth. My prayer is that you all get to experience a season like this. We have piston we used to

[00:19:30] may piston fans get a season like this in the next few years firing your coach is a terrible way to cover the stench of your front office that's all I'll say about that situation. It's true

[00:19:42] great scapegoat but terrible solution to the real problems at the piston's side of the front office but my hope in my prayer is that the pistons get to experience a season like we just did

[00:19:54] I think they have some good cornerstones so that's I won't glow it. I'll just say I really hope others in this area get to experience what I just experienced this year it was a lot of fun.

[00:20:05] Do you get look let me just say I'm more bothered that you may be the most reasonable Celtics fan that I've ever fought to because I have a bunch of stuff I could say but like you're saying all the

[00:20:17] correct things and it's bothering me because I just you know go at you about something but no we'll David maybe maybe that's the plan maybe that's exactly what I'm doing maybe that's it

[00:20:29] not just don't get don't let don't let the fight even start because the fight would be fun but like you're nailing it you you reasoned out the Celtics perfectly Jalen Brown Tatum

[00:20:40] you've reasoned out the pit you've done all that really well and hey you know what congratulations again well the next time you guys want to bring thoughtful reason into the podcast you give me a call

[00:20:52] yeah we don't be glad to reintroduce it for you we don't really use that very often so I was a huge and a nice but it's definitely not a regular we don't have that as a featured segment by any

[00:21:03] means thanks Nate have a good night appreciate you guys you enjoyed appreciate it thanks alright that's the most time we can ever give to a Celtics we just can't do that anymore meanwhile David we've been excited to have you on we've been hoping for the last few weeks

[00:21:20] to bring all that together because aside from the things that are happening in a championship land and playoff land sort of in the I guess kind of the under the under the the headline level

[00:21:34] of sports news was this announcement about the end of amateurism officially happening at the NCAA level right I mean just it just kind of happened but it happened at a time when we were sort

[00:21:44] of distracted by a lot of other things in the early around to the playoffs more teams were involved in all that the I've labeled this the Collins doctrine and if I had had time I would have gone back and pulled

[00:21:58] your sound bite from an episode several months ago when we were talking about NIL and transfer portals and I think you did a pretty solid like three minute rant on the hypocrisy of it all

[00:22:13] and they should just pay these kids like officially from this go so in honor of the Collins doctrine I would love to set you loose to talk about that news that amateurism's gone in college athletics

[00:22:33] yeah well I mean if you could start by explaining what is actually going on that would be great yeah well well I'll start it from even farther back like I think in the in the 70s or something

[00:22:45] like that it was it was a term amateurism was a term that the NCAA actually coined and the purpose of its coining was so that they could label these players in a way that they didn't have to pay them

[00:23:01] whereas any other kid that's in college doing any other job gets paid these didn't have to because they were representing the universities the problem is that that started before universities got big TV money and once the university started receiving hundreds of millions in TV money they kept

[00:23:24] using that as a reason for not paying these kids and then you had different things go on where you know you had uh uh Mike Williams you had Maurice Clarette you had certain guys try to like

[00:23:40] sit out and not play in college and go to the NFL but they had such a stronghold on this whole concept of paying players that they wouldn't let them leave college for a period of time until they

[00:23:51] you know spent enough time making money for the universities that they were then allowed to go on to the NFL you know their jerseys were in the stands and everyone was coming to see them readji bush

[00:24:00] he just got his highsman back I thought that was going to be another thing that I was going to argue about but like what ended up happening is they were put in this essential

[00:24:11] prison where they were allowed to perform and do the thing that they were best at but they were not allowed to receive benefits for it and there were a lot of people that go well they got free

[00:24:20] education they got all this stuff it that does not equal the value that they brought to the universities and so what I've always argued for is that the universities themselves out of their TV

[00:24:32] budgets out of their what they like ask for tickets etc that a portion of that should go to the actual players what ended up happening was NIL and I always fantastic meaning my name image and

[00:24:47] likeness I can get paid to do commercials to put my face on TV etc but that wasn't the universities actually giving a dime to the players so what recently happened is the NCAA went to

[00:25:01] the Supreme Court or Congra I can't remember where they went exactly but they basically did this to say we are willing to give a percentage of what we make from TV from tickets all this stuff and we

[00:25:13] would give that to the kids the players but what they're essentially doing is saying we want to control the amount that goes to them and they always want to link it in with but we've got to pay

[00:25:26] you know the girls basketball team and the Olympic sports, the track teams and those things they're trying to take control so they can put a limit on what actually goes to the players

[00:25:39] and they want to do that in exchange for players getting NIL and that's where it becomes weird because now it's like we want all the control over who gets the money and that's where I have an issue with it

[00:25:51] because it sounds good on the front and there were a lot of people I saw on Twitter etc saying they're finding it a pay the kids out of their school budget etc but if you look like

[00:26:02] between the lines what they're doing is saying we want to control who gets what and how much we decide to pay them so the NCAA is throwing a hail Mary essentially trying to say we still want

[00:26:13] control what needs to happen is these leagues the big 10 the SEC they need to go and say no no we're done with you at NCAA we're going to pay the kids what we want to pay them and you don't have

[00:26:25] control or saying it but they're desperate to maintain control and so that's where this whole thing is getting like completely subverted what actually is happening sounds good on unlike the the front oh look they're going to pay them but ultimately what they're doing is trying to maintain

[00:26:40] control and not actually pay people what they're worth out of the millions upon millions that they are receiving and that's where the frustration is. Yes so I did a bit of a deep dive

[00:26:52] and when the headlines first came out about the House versus NCAA settlement and it really was against the power five conferences those were the only ones named in the lawsuit but everyone's

[00:27:04] paying a price for it it's fascinating to me you're exactly right David it's it's multi everything else here's what I found out so 2.75 billion in back pay to athletes from 2016 or later and you nailed it right

[00:27:18] on the head 22 the settlement 22% of average power five revenue which includes meteorites and ticket sales and sponsorships and all that which roughly adds up to $22 million per school that's what's available for revenue sharing with the athletes however let's retroactively what to say

[00:27:41] say that part again please all athletes back to 2016 there's some reason that some statute of limitations that 2016 class and later are eligible to be a part of this revenue sharing 2.7 billion

[00:27:56] plus so to so the cap the David was talking about that they put on it is 22% of an average power five schools revenue but it's an optional program schools can opt into this revenue

[00:28:11] sharing model and then they get to determine what athletes and what sports they want to pay and hey hey hey hey hey hey hey this is what it's not about money it's about control

[00:28:25] and that's the whole thing the NCAA is desperate to keep control it gets worse so that money to David to your point it's in addition to their scholarships and it does not replace an

[00:28:39] I.L. and other benefits so it's not going to solve this settlement isn't going to solve anything but an exchange the NCAA has said hey well all other lawsuits have to be dropped and there can be no future lawsuits so they're trying to predict themselves against future

[00:28:58] class action or lawsuit or anything else and so here's here's some of the other things I found it's essentially a salary cap arrangement with this 22% cap on revenue sharing and this is

[00:29:10] fascinating to be built you're going to do a hold on a second one again the plan is that over the next 10 years a series of formulas will be devised by some sports economists that will decide

[00:29:22] how to split the 2.7 billion in damages among more than 10,000 former and current athletes some of you split up even me other parts will be allocated based on this I read the straight from the settlement other parts will be allocated based on the athletes market value metrics such as

[00:29:42] career snap count or a player star rating what help determine their pay on how do you think that's going to go right now here it gets even worse ready 60% of that money is going to come from cuts

[00:29:57] to non-power five conferences which by the way we're not even named in the lawsuit right so I found a couple quotes from group of five coaches we're not named in the lawsuit we don't have a voice in

[00:30:10] any of this we're just being told what our taxation is and then another coach says this is incredibly unfair as a dramatic impact on my program I'm losing 10% of my operating budget

[00:30:20] am I supposed to cut two staff members in order for some money to go to Zion Williams that's right so okay so I'm just gonna keep going in the day when I'm so anxious to hear you respond

[00:30:33] to me quick question quick question who lost the lawsuit who's paying out this money uh I'd go ahead no it's gonna say right now I'm not certain it's totally been uh I don't think they haven't answered yet yeah I like you know pursuing this so you have

[00:30:51] these two parties that enter into this dispute whatever you know it's partying party b and party a wins party b's got to pay up what I can't figure out in all of this is who is party b

[00:31:03] is that the individual schools is that the NCAA that's been collecting all the TV money and has to now distribute it as part of a settlement or a penalty and that's sorry in our

[00:31:15] I really like to try to build the visual picture of who it is that's got to write the checks and right now I'm not sure that that answer is known but is it most likely going to be the

[00:31:26] NCAA? It's it I don't think it's going to be NCAA because the NCAA doesn't control the TV money the TV money is for the conferences specifically so it's the conferences that will wind up

[00:31:35] having to pay this which is why they only went after the big conferences who actually make the TV that's why he's saying these smaller schools are like we don't have a say in any of this

[00:31:44] because the money comes out of the conferences and what their TV budgets are. Okay one more we've got a lot of conferences that existed in 2016 that no longer exist if I'm UCLA and USC and Oregon and I'm now part of a new happy family

[00:32:08] what happens to the dollars that should have been earned by the pack whatever number back in those days if they're going to move it all retroactively doesn't follow the schools

[00:32:20] or does now a conference that has two teams left in it go hey this is cool we get a lot of money nobody else. It's yeah and the worst part about that bill is the people that are going to

[00:32:31] wind up controlling what has to be that weird excess money is the NCAA. Whereas the conferences have to give it up it's going to be wind up being the NCAA that gets to decide

[00:32:41] what that what happens with that money. All right Paul continue under this the death of amateurism well I'm just going to read the book president of Notre Dame John Jenkins. Oh thank goodness here's his quote this is actually really telling he says this settlement though undesirable in many

[00:33:00] promises only temporary stability is necessary to avoid what would be the bankruptcy of college athletics to save the great American institution of college sports congress much must pass legislation that will preem to the current patchwork of state laws established that our athletes are not

[00:33:20] employees but students seeking college degrees and provide protection from further and I trust lawsuits that will all colleges to make and enforce rules that will protect our student athletes and help ensure competitive equity among our teams oh my gosh that's the worst it's for me again

[00:33:39] the worst part about this is the the language in it I was reading about this you know well long while ago is they're putting language in this whole situation that means you can't go in the

[00:33:49] future you can't say or do anything to us that's the entire concept. The NCAA trying to say you can't sew us down the road you can't question us down the road no anti trust law suit nothing we get

[00:34:01] full save from here on out end of story take our little bit of money that's what's happening here they're they're giving up nothing based on how much they actually receive in order to have control

[00:34:13] this is not about money it is about control and they want to keep control and that's the most frustrating thing because one of the like most pointless like governing bodies is the NCAA these

[00:34:25] these conferences could just go do this themselves at a point in new commissioner and do their own thing but instead the NCAA is so desperate like I said they're throwing a hail Mary here

[00:34:36] okay we we have discussed in the past with David on the show that the three most corrupt organizations on the planet the us so see FIFA and the NCAA the NCAA has been put on death watch as an

[00:34:52] organization by the power five conferences who have said essentially listen we don't really need to guys we want to go she at our own TV contract some of us have our own TV networks

[00:35:03] your archaic ways of doing things or or stifling all of this there's really no law in the land anyways after the Supreme Court went nine to nothing against the NCAA a couple years ago

[00:35:14] and now it seems like there's a sudden return to reliance on the NCAA by the university presidents because they started to hear the sound of coins jingling around in a purse even if

[00:35:29] it's a hypothetical person that may never land so is that is that the tether that's going to keep the NCAA relevant for a decade longer than anybody thinks it should be around

[00:35:46] I think that's their home but no like this lawsuit that actually triggered all this stuff was like some swimmer from Arizona state or something like that that's the guy named house versus NCAA that's like some random thing but I found this amazing article by a grad student

[00:36:05] economics student from Duke University how about that right is writing about this very question I should have wrote down his name so I can get credit for it in the podcast he was not my ideas but

[00:36:16] he said there's three things that have to happen if we want to save the NCAA up so here's his three things and you tell me if you think any of these things that these three things are actually going

[00:36:26] to happen he said first of all we need an atrust protection from the federal government for the NCAA there already have that don't they from the federal government they're trying to fight for it that's what they're fighting for no no lawsuits in the future you

[00:36:43] give up your right to sue us in the future um the second we need a uniform set of rules across state lines that's the big problem with NIOs depending on what state you live in yeah the rules are different so that means Congress has to pass some uniform

[00:37:01] NIO guidelines that all states would hear too yeah tell me if you think that's going to happen in third a separation between revenue and renon revenue sports which would be a complete

[00:37:12] repaint or reimagining of how the NCAA works in the first place right so that's his list of three things he's like if all three of those things could happen then the NCAA may be saved but tell me

[00:37:24] if you think any of those are actually likely the only one that's potentially likely is the splitting up of revenue versus non revenue sports because I think that what you need to do is make football

[00:37:36] its own distinction because football is the one that makes and I know people will say basketball too but like if you're talking about true money that comes in with TV rights and all that football's

[00:37:46] the one that that makes the money if you make it a separate thing the problem is because of this whole amateurism in this NCAA the whole thing they've set up is that football pays for all

[00:37:57] the other sports right not the schools that make the money from TV and all these revenues like all this other stuff it's football pays for your swimmers for like I said you're track and

[00:38:09] feel that leads all this stuff if you take football out of that then the only way to get money to those other sports is if the school itself provides that money what they're trying to do is not

[00:38:22] beyond the hook for that money and so they're trying to keep football apart of here's how we make our money if you don't take it from football we're not going to have money and it's like what what happened

[00:38:33] to the you know 400 million you made from from Fox this year like what where's that money going well that goes to the university but that's the that's the only one I can see happening it's not

[00:38:44] gonna go across state lines and I do not believe they're gonna get like anti trust immunity down the road that does not seem in anyway like so it's it's safe to assume that even right now in the

[00:38:56] dead of summer there's an incredible amount of lobbying going out in Washington from the powers that be in these upper echelon parts of the NCAA I guarantee you there are rounds of golf being played with senators and congresspeople hosted by NCAA and athletic directors because

[00:39:16] this is this is frightening to say but they may be thinking that they're only route to protecting or self preservation as if congresstops and it does something which I just find fascinating fascinating at the same time let's flip the discussion over to the fan and player perspective

[00:39:38] and I want to do that with using just a quick sound bite as a launch pad and this took place a few months ago when Nick Sabin retired but the comments that he made at the time are still

[00:39:51] pretty relevant all the things that I believed in for all these years fit for years of coaching no longer exist in college athletics so it's always was about development players it was always about

[00:40:04] helping people maybe more successful in life I'm a wife even said to me we'd have all the recruits over on Sunday with their parents for breakfast and she would always meet with the mothers

[00:40:16] and talk about how she was going to help and impact their sons and how they would be well taken care of and she came to me you know like right before our retired and said why are we doing this

[00:40:29] and I said what do you mean she said all they care about is how much you're going to pay them and so I had a discussion last week with in fact David knows the guy but I won't use his name

[00:40:41] he's the host of a radio show heard around Michigan and his son is being recruited by a number of division one schools and they took a visit out to the to the east coast and they visited on

[00:40:54] an official basis with the coach at Pittsburgh uh in our doozy and he said to the young man just here's how it works here pit which by the way pit would not be on my top tier list of

[00:41:10] blue blood football programs reputable sure they're not you know they're not Michigan Georgia Ohio state Alabama they can't say said if you come here's a three star we already have you slotted in to make sixty five thousand dollars a year above and beyond with your scholarship and ruined

[00:41:30] board sixty five thousand years salary if you come in here if you pick up another star in this nebulous star rating system you're coming in now at a hundred grand a year guaranteed for four

[00:41:43] years that's your salary and if you happen to come in as a five star then you have a base level it was either three or three hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year on top of your full right

[00:41:59] and we got to talking a little bit about what that concept is like for a 17 year old to hear it right so this entire realm will just kind of keep it in the football realm for now is all this

[00:42:13] talk about billions and billions and rights and settlements and I mean it's huge money and the trickle down comes to kids who have never tasted that kind of of money or responsibility

[00:42:30] have never felt that kind of pressure like man I have the chance to make more than my parents and I'm 18 years old so now what does it do when you get into these camps and all these different

[00:42:43] settings where you're supposed to become a higher level a star level of recruit where somebody that you maybe have never met decides any's a three star is a four star is a five star

[00:42:53] whatever yeah and so the conversation we had turned to this the stress and anxiety that is subtle feeling and the talk that they had to have about how listen this do not put this on yourself

[00:43:06] you just you do your thing and if you just say you want to play anymore that's fine too but for school like pit to already have salary slots organized and presented to recruits

[00:43:22] to me means that if I take it from pin I go to Ann Arbor I go to Columbus I go to Athens I go to Tuscaloosa whatever I got to think that those numbers are two and three X what we were just hearing

[00:43:37] and that you're able now to say to a kid yeah come here you're gonna you're gonna walk away with a lot of money by the way none of the conversations of any of these programs seems to be varying

[00:43:51] over towards preparing a kid to handle that to deal with taxes to deal with investment protection of hers and all just go out like they do a Texas and just go get Lamborghinis for

[00:44:05] everybody and if so as a fan who you know the two of us know our buddy Randy Gilmer he lives in Vegas he still has Michigan season tickets they are expensive they're expensive

[00:44:22] at what point to the fans start to go I mean I love my program but this isn't college anymore these I don't even know if these kids could have class anymore yeah so where where is this heading with

[00:44:36] fan enthusiasm because the amateur appeal is gone it's gone there's no amateur appeal anymore yeah I'll lay another story on top of what you just said to underscore where it feels like

[00:44:52] it's heading for a train wreck a perfect storm of just kind of the bottom falling out of the whole thing right there are two wide receivers in the state of Florida high school juniors right now

[00:45:06] one is the number two ranked wide receiver in the 2025 class one is the number four right wide receiver right well high-all stages recruiting both of them um Florida just recently like a month ago

[00:45:22] changed their NIL laws allowing high school kids to get NIL deals yeah so they changed that law in the morning that afternoon those two players signed NIL deals for numbers bigger than what

[00:45:40] you were just rolling around with American Eagle so pictures are showing up on X and in social media of them modeling American Eagle clothes and all the Southern stuff who do you think owns American Eagle

[00:45:52] one of the biggest boosters at Ohio State who also happens to run one of the NIL collectives for Ohio State University right so I'm a loyal buck guy that's kind of messed up yeah

[00:46:08] so now the conversation about our either one of these guys gonna come and play at Ohio State is all tainted and as a fan I you know oh my gosh I'm not sure if I want those guys to become

[00:46:21] well they're good so I probably would say that I do but man it's a messed up thing yeah these look you probably 17 years old making three four times what their dad's making and trying to

[00:46:33] you know all that for putting on American Eagle clothes and picking a few photos all right David so where what are we to do with that part of this well I'm gonna say something that I think I've said before

[00:46:47] this is the way that it's been we're just now seeing it players for years have been get like Reggie Bush has gotten cars and like players for years have been receiving benefits it's just been

[00:46:59] under the table but not all what's that but not across the board not across the board but my whole point has been this whole time why are we not making it across the board right why why is it that

[00:47:12] certain players get you know certain schools Alabama whatever and I agree with what Nick Sabin said I understand his perspective because I do believe that's how he wants to do it what are you telling me

[00:47:24] Alabama for years wasn't giving a little something to those kids to come there and they constantly had five star players I'm not saying he was the one doing it but you're you're lying to yourself if

[00:47:36] you think that that wasn't Ohio State Michigan like all these schools they've all been doing it forever but we just now are figuring out that this is the dirty side of college football and

[00:47:49] it's laid bare and now we have to deal with it so for me I look at it and say one ratings are up I don't think this is affecting how people are going to view it because you look at you're pnsacchar

[00:48:03] they don't have colleges they have club teams okay so these are all club teams and guess what popularity there for club teams is just as high as it is for colleges here like I don't think this is going to

[00:48:14] affect the popularity it might affect maybe Paul if you know I don't know if I want these guys whatever but in the end are you going to watch the games you got what you remember that I said well yeah

[00:48:25] I actually do want to put it in the end you're going to watch the games and you're going to want the players and you're going to look like I don't think of this as a new thing I think of this as

[00:48:35] an exposing of something and now it's done in a new way where you're like like remember the who is at the Louisville basketball players and they had a one of their recruits got thrown in jail

[00:48:48] because he was given them shoe deals and things like that this has been going on in men's college football and basketball and probably other sports for years it's just now like now it's like

[00:49:01] now that it's laid out there and it's like make it and bear for people to see we're going to find out how ugly it can get and that's kind of where we're at and I've always wanted I've always wanted

[00:49:12] the curtain just pulled back like let's stop pretending that this sport is pure and this is amateurism and these are people just for the love of the game let's stop pretending that and let's start

[00:49:23] looking at it for what it really is so do you think the rich get richer in the blue blood programs that have the deep pockets in the huge donor bases just continue to outpace the field is at the

[00:49:36] net result on the sport I actually think it makes it a little bit more of an even playing field I think what ends up happening is the high plateau which was like four schools is now eight to ten

[00:49:47] schools and then the low middle plateau which was what 25 30 schools now goes a little bit higher but but I mean you look at our national champions recently like you know your your Michigan's and your George's in your Iowa State and your Alabama's they're going to still keep

[00:50:02] competing because they're going to find ways to pay the money one of the top NIL schools in the entire country is Miami and Miami consistently gets the best athletes and consistently is bad

[00:50:14] so it's like I don't think it necessarily means if the money is coming in then that same school stay Texas that's another one and I know they're better now but how long have they had the most

[00:50:25] money out of every school USC these schools so what I think is it ends up it makes the top the top three or four when it was Clemson Ohio State, Georgia and Alabama now it becomes a

[00:50:37] top like eight or nine and then the then the middle eight to ten becomes like the middle 25 you know as they kind of rise up so I look at it and say I don't believe it's going to mean the

[00:50:51] rich is just keep getting richer I think it's going to mean the well yeah the rich keep getting richer but the pool of rich is much bigger at this point. Yeah to make sense you imagine

[00:51:03] if I just just imagine with me for a moment of world in which amateurism is gone millions hundreds of millions of dollars are flying around like you're in one of those radio station

[00:51:14] phone booth promotions where the money's just the air is popping it up and you can catch whatever you can in 60 seconds you can win in that world you imagine suspending a coach over a cheeseburger

[00:51:30] what is going to constitute an offense who's gonna set the rules what's gonna be a broken rule and the most obvious question is who's going to enforce or institute any sort of a penalty

[00:51:48] anyway shape or form when there are no more amateur rules I mean we don't have to go into a deep dive on the hard boss stuff but it does strike me as extra funny that we are still in the same

[00:52:04] calendar year when a lot of that stuff was being discussed and it sounds so ass-in-ine right now even though it was within the last 12 months that all this stuff hit the fan where are we going to

[00:52:19] go when it comes to frameworks guidelines and enforcement to me bill the simple answer is every professional sport has a system governing body the commissioner yes and a commissioner so what's gonna end up happening the only the simple way to make this work is you do that with

[00:52:40] college football that's the simple that's the simple answer it seems like it's spiraling out of control but the reality is the NFL does it you know the MLB does it like these people do it and they have

[00:52:51] collective bargaining and they have all these if unions they do all this stuff it can happen with college sports as well it's just a matter of again what Paul was bringing up earlier with the

[00:53:02] NCAA going you know to Congress in the house and the government and all that they're trying to be the ones that figure this out but in order to do it they're going to make sure that they put a bunch

[00:53:13] of lids on all of these things well that they can keep control yeah and we have we have in the NFL for instance we have the thirty thirty two owners who willingly said all right we're going

[00:53:26] we're gonna have a commissioner that commissioner's gonna work for us but he's going to be in charge of enforcing our guidelines that we determine at the university level we have mostly I guess it's

[00:53:40] safe to say mostly a liberal leaning university presidents who really liked to rain from on high and I cannot fathom them finding an individual but they would agree to to hand over the commissioner like authority to especially when it comes to negotiating TV stuff and handling

[00:54:01] on disciplinary issues and things like that so I mean these these these folks they don't agree on a whole lot which is why college enrollment is not headed in a very positive direction

[00:54:12] generally speaking across the board so in the NFL even though the owners are a little bit strange at times they have largely seen the wisdom of letting somebody else serve in the

[00:54:24] throne to oversee their sport and in the case of Gidell who I'm not a fan of at all you can't argue with the numbers they've they've headed in the right direction I cannot see a hundred

[00:54:38] university presidents getting in the room and appointing the same person or green to it so I just don't know where leadership comes from for everybody who wants to jay billist to be the commissioner

[00:54:50] of college basketball there's going to be ten times more people than that who will find reasons that couldn't work so I don't know Paul does just does the world of collegiate sports need to follow the blueprint of professional sports and find a single leader over all of it

[00:55:12] I think today today of his point I think there needs to be a commissioner for football and a commissioner for basketball and the NCAA problem is like in the NFL you have 32 teams and

[00:55:23] that's it right like in the NCAA you have Rutgers saying they get they should get the same things in Ohio State and Michigan get or you have Vanderbilt saying they should get the same thing

[00:55:32] the Georgia gets right and there's there's so many college football teams so you're going to have to siphon off those blue blood programs and create like a tiered model and good luck getting

[00:55:49] university president in the room and having them going well yeah we'll slot in on that third year that's probably where we belong and you know that's never gonna happen so I just I don't know

[00:56:00] what the path forward is I really don't how would you how would you fix it David as we wrap up this amateurism talk yeah I think each conference appointing like what Paul was saying is kind of what

[00:56:14] my point was was you you have to separate football from the other sports you can't give the money from football to the other sports to keep them float etc the schools have to be responsible to

[00:56:28] uplift all those other sports so when it comes to football you need to with a big 10 can have their own system that's the seek and have their own system you've got to you don't need one commissioner

[00:56:39] over all of them you need a big 10 commissioner you need an SCC commissioner you need a ACC commissioner to me that's how it ultimately gets done you don't have like Michigan doesn't need to have the same

[00:56:52] money standards that Florida has they just don't Michigan needs to fit within whatever their system is for the big 10 and I think that it's it's harder obviously a lot harder said than done but we

[00:57:04] already have commissioners for you know the big 10 we already have that it's it's a pointing somebody who will oversee it for the entire you know where as instead of like I'm the commissioner

[00:57:15] over the big 10 it's no I'm the commissioner over big 10 football that needs to be separated and when you separate it it's still hard but you can actually start to find some way to govern it and

[00:57:26] I just think that's the only way that this is going to wind up making sense because football shouldn't be cropping up all your other sports it should be its own entity because it it's professional football

[00:57:39] the Michigan Alabama had like 29 million people watching it you know like that that's that's NFL playoff game numbers you know like it it's not an amateur sport and we have to stop pretending

[00:57:53] that it is or that it really ever was so what do you do it like do you have a big 10 champion and an SEC champion and everybody jumps on church piece sports just to argue about who would win

[00:58:04] if they actually played each other and it's not a level playing field because the rules are different in the different conferences I mean that is that how do you get around that or do you just say

[00:58:14] well we don't have a true national chamber whatever but the truth is most of our lives the NCAA was the champion was decided by an AP polvo years after that it was decided by a BCS and then

[00:58:28] then we started the playoff and I think it's one of the reasons the NCAA is going to a 12 team playoff which no one's really asking for five or 16 playoff would be great 14 to me is fine

[00:58:40] but they want to do this because the more schools they include guess what that means the more schools are cool with them still being in control and all these things to me are just little ways the

[00:58:49] NCAA is chipping at these schools to say hey if you stay with us look at our TV money for these playoff games and now they're doing the first round is hosted by the schools which is cool

[00:59:00] like that's awesome we all love that concept but they're still going to have their all state sugar balls and their fiesta balls that they're going to still have all these things

[00:59:09] to me the NCAA is grasping to try to again maintain control by getting more people in the door because the more they have in there the less people are going to want to fight and argue against them

[00:59:19] but I mean if each team picked their conference champion and okay now we'll do a playoff with just the conference champions would that really be that different than what we're doing now I mean

[00:59:30] outside of last year with Alabama getting in over Georgia which some people had an issue with I mean and Florida State that's the thing about it I look at it go I actually don't even mind that they

[00:59:40] didn't leave put Florida State in because they lost their quarterback they lost the thing that was going to make them yeah it's also arbitrary and nobody's going to nobody will like you'll care about it when it's announced and you won't care about it once a champion is

[00:59:57] correct so on every college campus in the athletic department which athletes still fall under the definition of amateurs the the rowing team and you are not getting paid well my understanding is that with if settlement comes through they're all getting paid by people they're all getting paid

[01:00:23] by a settlement by a nebulous sugar daddy I don't know where it's coming from but it's come from somebody so is amateurism dead it should be yeah if the school the school and the school should be

[01:00:37] paying a lot more money than they're going to wind up having to pay if this thing gets passed interesting and but that's where that's where the whole thing comes in if they took the actual revenue they got from

[01:00:48] these contracts and stuff and they put it into actually paying the athletes yeah amateurism should die well as you all can tell folks it is a fascinating discussion and we've gone a little bit longer

[01:01:02] than we normally do but that's alright we're really you know in the summertime what do you all have to do you're going to the beach just put this in your in your air pods and listen in

[01:01:10] we'd love to hear from you about it as well we'll skip ahead through some of our other segments but we always conclude with our our three minute message every weekend this once this one kind

[01:01:21] of brings us full circle back to the Celtics world so here's Paul with a three minute message Homer I'd like you to remember Matthew 7 26 the foolish man who built his house on sound and you remember

[01:01:36] Matthew 21 17 and he left them and went out of the city into Bethany and he lodged there yeah think about it think about it yeah so like you'd like you to be a bit I want to just kind of lean in on Joe Masula

[01:01:58] as the head coach of the Celtics I love the way he talks about his faith I love the way he's not afraid to use his dry sense of humor to make a point with the media I love this guy

[01:02:15] and so you know he shows up for his presser after winning the net the NBA championship and that he's wearing a t-shirt that says hold on a second let me thank God first yeah whatever

[01:02:26] that shirt said I think it's just it's just awesome but we have this quote from him when he was asked a pretty loaded question by a reporter who had an agenda and I would love for us to just hear his response

[01:02:39] of Vince the Royal Sports for the first time since 1975 this is the NBA Finalist where you have two black head coaches given the plight sometimes with black head coaches in the NBA do you think

[01:02:50] this is a significant moment that you take pride in this how do you view this or do you not see it at all under how many of those are being Christian coaches followed by just silence violence yeah

[01:03:02] how many of those have been Christian coaches so I'm not interested in talking about race here on church Pew Sports what I am interested in is talking about identity and I think kind of the

[01:03:12] underpinning of what Joe Masula was getting at theirs yeah I'm a black head coach but before that I'm a follower of Jesus right and you've heard me talk about this before identity our identity must

[01:03:25] remain well ordered if life is gonna make sense it starts with child of God that's the most important piece and then from there it goes to a member of your whatever family like I tell

[01:03:41] I we tell our kids all the time hey you're a child of God and that's the most important thing is your member of the Miller family and then the third layer is everything else does it matter

[01:03:51] that Joe Masula is a black as black yeah that's part of who he is and that's a significant thing in this conversation to be had about that and there is a story a conversation to be had about the

[01:04:00] fact that there's two black head coaches but not not from Joe Masula's perspective not before he talks about the fact that he's a child of God right that's more important to him so he refrains

[01:04:13] the question first John 31 see how great a love the father has bestowed upon us that we should be called children of God and that is what we are so I would just challenge all of us as we're going

[01:04:25] into our week as we're heading into summer to keep your identity well ordered because if you get those things out of order if you let anything about who you are become more important than the

[01:04:39] fact that you're a child of God you're signing up for trouble you're just so child of God member of your family and everything else let's keep it that way good stuff David good to see you

[01:04:54] again man thanks for coming in yeah I feel like we had I think we had some stored up so we helped to kind of release the pressure valve of what you've been saving up for NCAA talk so there'll be more

[01:05:08] yeah no I always feel like I'm too long-winded but no there's so many things they have not it no it's really good yeah really appreciate it and hopefully you'll all enjoy listing all the way through this but also sharing the link with others in your world who love

[01:05:23] a good conversation about sports and life and faith make sure you check us out on Facebook and on x as well as at churchpue sports dot com we will talk to you again soon this summer thanks for listening