The Unwritten Rules of Sports

[00:00:00] And now, Schlyther is going after Ramos who flipped the bat and watched it. Schlyther didn't take kindly to that and the aces have come out of the bench.

[00:00:09] And now, Ramos is going to throw his helmet and throw a punch, and here they come!

[00:00:14] The following is a presentation of Hobson Media.

[00:00:18] Woohoo!

[00:00:20] Anybody care what this guy thinks?

[00:00:22] No!

[00:00:24] This is the Church Pew Sports Podcast featuring a group of pastors delivering bombastic takes on sports, life and faith.

[00:00:35] I knew it was possibility to see it in real time. Holy can Holy! This is crazy!

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[00:00:42] This game's all about sports points guys, we got a sports point.

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[00:00:51] As the Church Pew Sports Podcast begins.

[00:00:54] It's more like a baseball bat than the kneecaps.

[00:00:56] That man next to you is somebody that gots to have it today!

[00:01:00] We got to mark, we got now.

[00:01:05] And with that, we welcome you in to another episode of Church Pew Sports.

[00:01:08] It's great to have you with us. This is the place where we connect sports to life and faith, and we have a really fun time doing it.

[00:01:16] So thanks for listening, hopefully for subscribing and sharing the link with other sports fans in your world.

[00:01:22] And you may write off the bat, be asking yourself why would he play a clip of a baseball fight breaking out?

[00:01:30] Because it's been happening forever but it seems to be happening even in the early days of this 2024 season in ways that defy logic because in much of baseball and in other sports there are this

[00:01:45] unwritten rules that when broken tend to lead to flare ups and the old word that I really enjoy is the brew ha ha.

[00:01:57] And what we're going to talk about tonight, the things that will get you plunked, the unwritten rules of sports,

[00:02:04] and Paul Miller, who's normally my co-host, I believe will be joining us in a few minutes.

[00:02:09] He's not here at the very beginning because of some other commitments that he has.

[00:02:13] Happy to be joined by our kind of our resident baseball correspondent Scott Holmgren, who instead of joining us from his home in Orlando area is somehow on the west side of Michigan.

[00:02:25] Scott, welcome to pure Michigan. I'm just a lovely, lovely April spring day with snow showers and sleet and freezing rain. Good to have you.

[00:02:34] It's good to be here. In fact, you know, since I left Michigan they have those new license plates that say winter and water wonderland. And boy we experienced all of that within about 10 minutes. It was awesome.

[00:02:45] You got the sampler platter. That's for sure. And John Fitzsimmons who's been with us a number of times and is a big baseball guy.

[00:02:52] And you know, he steps into this conversation where I'm a tiger fan Scott is a cubs fan. And I think Scott you and I can both join forces in detesting the jersey and the representation that that Fitsy is bringing into his zoom window with a red socks jersey in front of a Fenway park backdrop.

[00:03:15] So Fitsy, welcome back. Good to have you again.

[00:03:18] Thanks for having me again guys. Happy Wednesday. Okay, give us the red socks connection.

[00:03:23] I have an aunt and uncle who live out on the east coast and I think used to live out there during the summer months. So just a big fan.

[00:03:31] You know, it's like the tigers here how they're on every night that's out there for the red socks. They're on every night.

[00:03:38] Yeah. And so, you know, you're out there five summers in a row. You get used to watching him and you start to like them. What era would that have been like who would have been your red socks when you were out there watching them?

[00:03:51] Trot Nixon or teas remires.

[00:03:56] Adrom Martinez. So we're in the Clemens era here.

[00:04:00] Clemens. Okay, so you you saw the best of the socks.

[00:04:05] And I'm seeing the worst of the socks. Well, and for whatever it's worth, we're off to a pretty good start as Tigers fans. As we sit here today they're undefeated early in the season with a couple of rain outs, but they have played a few games.

[00:04:19] And they've played well. They've won low scoring extra inning games and two of their wins and Scott just to give you a feel for how tried and true of a Michigan or I am, I was given a pair of tickets to the home opener which is scheduled for Friday.

[00:04:38] I looked at the forecast and I have since given those tickets away.

[00:04:44] That makes sense. And we declare opening day here kind of like a holiday in Michigan, but it's not enough of a holiday for me to sit outside and freeze in 42 degrees with a little drizzle coming over us.

[00:04:55] So when we talk about this idea of unwritten rules, Scott, for you as a baseball fan, when did you first realize this kind of thing existed?

[00:05:07] Well, you know, if you don't have to watch very much baseball to understand just when you can throw a ball at a person, right? Like another sport actually in the history of baseball, you used to get a guy out by hitting him with the baseball back in the way early days to the 1880s.

[00:05:26] You could throw the baseball at a runner and if you hit him, he was out. So I kind of think it comes full circle a bit, but I remember as a kid watching and you know for whatever reason in my memory as a Cubs fan, the giants were always the evil team when the Cubs would play them.

[00:05:43] And Jim Barr, who was a pitcher for the giants. I will never forget him just plunking Cubs after Cubs for whatever reason always turned into a melee that candlestick park and it was just entertaining at that point, right?

[00:05:56] But you know, I think it's just inherent to the game baseball has such a long tradition, a long history of traditions, right?

[00:06:06] And so whether it's breaking up the no-hitter, whether it's bunting when you're leading by a hundred runs, whether you know, whether it's you don't do that. You just don't do that and my take on it is actually a little different like I don't even care for that term unspoken rules or the unwritten rules.

[00:06:24] Because for me so much of it really comes down to bottom line sportsmanship, right? It's this idea of how do you play the game fair and yet baseball gives us the very best wrinkle because like other unlike other sports that have a game clock.

[00:06:40] That regulation runs down and it's impossible for a team to come back say three touchdowns down or you know, you know, you're down by 20 in the basketball games over in baseball.

[00:06:53] You can be up by 10 in the last inning and lose.

[00:06:58] So you've got that idea of there is no such thing as a sure thing. So at what point do you you're playing hard? You're competing go get that extra run. Why not take that extra base? I mean, there's no guarantee you're going to win the game.

[00:07:12] So some of that some of that I have to keep in mind as I reflect on what's really what are we really talking about here in terms of fair play or what's good sportsmanship.

[00:07:21] And what are those rules those unwritten rules really trying to protect right by the way you have greatly encouraged my daughter who was unlikely to be listening to this podcast.

[00:07:34] But a few years ago she was on a missions trip in Peru. And for whatever reason I don't know the context of the conversation that came up, but they were asking her about baseball rules and she doesn't know those rules.

[00:07:49] But she began to teach them that if you threw the ball at somebody and hit them, they were out and you know nearly created an international incident. So she will be glad to hear that there's precedent for that being an acceptable part of the game.

[00:08:04] So it's so fit see we think about unwritten rules. We know about do we know you know if your pitcher drills my cleanup hitter then the next time around your number four hitter is going to get his tower is going to get buzzed.

[00:08:16] What other unwritten baseball rules come to mind for you?

[00:08:21] Man, I think like the you know the slide you know the unnecessary slide. Yeah, going into like going into second base third base whatever.

[00:08:30] Yeah, you want to break up a double play or whatever it is but player safety. You know I've never been a fan of that.

[00:08:39] Never been a plant fan of player safety. No, the dirty slides. Thank you. All right. Well, you know what was defined as a dirty slide in 1974 is different than the definition of a dirty slide in 2024.

[00:08:53] And in fact, just a few days ago we saw a real modern day example of that between the Mets and the Brewers.

[00:09:01] Yeah, third chance for two. Baby to second for one. A tough pickup from McNeil on the call the out they are.

[00:09:09] And then an overslide at second base by Hoskins. And we got some hard feelings. As Hoskins has words with lead door and others.

[00:09:24] A hard slide by Hoskins they called the out at second both benches have emptied the bullpen to joining it as well.

[00:09:34] And the bullpen's of course take about 45 seconds to get there because they've got a long distance run. So let's talk about that moment right there.

[00:09:41] John was that slide a violation of the unwritten rule of too hard of a slide I realized he was called out which I thought was was was I don't think it was because of the slide.

[00:09:51] I think they gave the infield or credit for possessing the ball long enough but but he was being declared as a dirty player that was a terrible slide.

[00:09:59] He was trying to injure somebody and I thought second basement was just standing on the bag for for no apparent reason. So what how did you see it?

[00:10:08] You know, I've watched a few times and honestly I think in my opinion the way the way the slide happened it was like I had no issue with the slide itself.

[00:10:17] It was like the over continuation of like how the legs flailed out on the still like at the end trying to trip the you know trying to you know kick the second basement off the bag to break off that double play.

[00:10:28] Like it was the overslight as the announcer said.

[00:10:31] And a violation and then here come the teams and it was the case in most of those incidents there were no punches throwing there was a lot of posturing a lot of a lot of profane language that we don't use here on church,

[00:10:43] and there was a lot of hold me back guys right there's always the angry player but his teammates or his coaches have a good enough hold on him that he's not going to go get himself suspended for eight or 10 games.

[00:10:55] I always find that to be interesting in baseball brawls versus in hockey.

[00:10:59] And hockey when the unwritten rule is broken then there's a squaring off then there's the dropping of the gloves and usually a little arena forms of officials and players as they watch these these two warriors are these two goons however you want to define it.

[00:11:16] Go at each other and I'm anxious to get some thoughts from our special guest who's checking in with us now he's I think the most versatile play by play voice and talk show host in the Detroit market his friend

[00:11:28] and Matt Shepherd is kind enough to join us here late on a Wednesday evening ship welcome into welcome back into church,

[00:11:35] and I'm going to give you a few sports in this world of unwritten rule conversations.

[00:11:42] How many unwritten rule violations do you think you've observed over the over the years and seen them turn into something like a fight or at least an angry exchange?

[00:11:53] Yeah, I think they're good to be with you guys sorry that I'm a little late.

[00:11:57] I think the unwritten rule is is more for us than it is for the athletes and I think a lot of athletes understand.

[00:12:05] You know where you cross a line and where you don't.

[00:12:09] I can't say that there's been a ton that I've necessarily witnessed.

[00:12:14] I did hear what you're talking about with hockey they seem to handle it.

[00:12:19] I say handle their business on the ice and I think that's what protects that sport a little bit more in baseball.

[00:12:26] I think that unwritten rule you might be talking about really comes down to just a few things one what we saw the other day with Reese Hoskins going hard into second base.

[00:12:36] I thought that was an overreaction quite honestly on McNeil's part of the other was primarily it's it's pictures throwing behind guys.

[00:12:45] If you're going to hit somebody you're supposed to hit them and you're supposed to avoid the head.

[00:12:52] That's if you want to call that an unwritten rule, that's fine but it's the rule that most people live by you want to avoid certain parts of the body to make sure it's not a long standing injury.

[00:13:05] Especially when it comes to the head. So I think there are certain things in certain sports, but I think all the athletes know is the picture better off to drill the guy in the rib cage then to miss behind him.

[00:13:17] Is that somehow more egregious of an offense?

[00:13:20] Yeah, I would say so.

[00:13:23] I think it's the reason so many people want pictures to bat.

[00:13:27] Personally I never did.

[00:13:30] I just think it's one of those situations on I don't think people are paying to watch guys swing at three pitches that they're never going to hit for the most part.

[00:13:39] Save a couple of guys here and there you know who feel like they were really good hitters like Zach Grinkey, but overall yeah I mean that's it.

[00:13:48] For the ribs instead of the head for the ribs instead of missing behind a guy which is I think quite honestly embarrassing some guys can't do it.

[00:13:56] Kurt Gibson told me a story once when he was the manager in Arizona.

[00:14:00] He had a picture who would not go inside to hitters and it bothered Gibby because he felt like you had to be able to go inside.

[00:14:09] You had to own the inside of the plate in order for you to get certain calls.

[00:14:14] So Gibby said he went out in the bullpen and he took the picture with him on one of those days where you're throwing in between starts.

[00:14:21] And he said I'm going to give you an opportunity to do something no picture has ever had before and probably never will again.

[00:14:28] You get a chance to hit your manager right now.

[00:14:32] He said I literally I want you to hit me in the ribs show me you can throw inside.

[00:14:38] Gibby is crazy.

[00:14:39] And yeah he is crazy but the picture wouldn't do it.

[00:14:42] And give me just stood there he's like go ahead hit me I'm not going to move.

[00:14:46] He wouldn't do it.

[00:14:48] And that bothered him it's about owning certain parts of the plate if you're the picture.

[00:14:53] It's about protecting certain teammates.

[00:14:56] It's an aura that sometimes is hard to explain and hard to really understand unless you've actually been involved in it I think.

[00:15:07] I have memory serves me I think Kramer might have plunked Joe Demagio at Yankee's fantasy camp and when he told Jerry about it he said I own the inside of the plate buddy.

[00:15:17] So yeah totally understandable so I think it was Mickey Manel was a man so yeah just so you know it's right Demagio dunked his donuts that's what it was.

[00:15:25] That's right I think he don't it's your right I've got to get my trivia my my side fell trivia in order.

[00:15:31] So Shep and Scott you can speak into this as well if we were to assemble a list of baseball's top five unwritten rules.

[00:15:41] You know in order of seriousness like is it is it you don't want to break up and go hitter is that you don't take 48 seconds to run the bases after you hit a home run I mean where are we what are we putting on the list and how are we ordering that list.

[00:15:58] Yeah well I mean I would say I would definitely say injuring a guy I mean if you're going to risk injury so that's where I think the throwing at a batter is probably the trickiest in the toughest because yeah you got to send a message and sure but but there's risk of real injury there if the picture doesn't have control if it's

[00:16:19] starting the wrong spot if if the body language isn't there with it I would say that is probably the highest the most contentious one of them all next down might be the show boating on the home run because that's like a personal affront to the picture I mean you're out there trying to do your job and you're going to you're going to turn it into a spectacle and almost mock him for doing his job he's a professional I would put that one up probably a little higher than some of the others like the bunting to get a hit.

[00:16:48] I don't know it's just the way I see it I think there's a lot of pride involved in some of those things and then there's others that just like to your point that overslide might have been a bit of over reaction you know guys having a bad day really appreciate one thing or another.

[00:17:03] Yeah if you're going after somebody's knees at second base how would probably put that if not one be at least two to throwing at somebody's head so I think those are really important the show boating is a little tricky to do.

[00:17:17] It's a little tricky only because you see so many closures and so many pictures showing their emotion I don't think players have any issue with emotion but the long jog around the bases might hurt some pictures and a lot of catchers quite honestly because catchers take home runs just as personal pictures.

[00:17:38] I do believe and I'm not necessarily a proponent of this but I do believe if there is a certain run differential I'll use the number six right now if it's six nothing and it's the top of the ninth and Scott's got a no hitter and I bought my way on a lot of people feel like that's bush leak personally I don't you know I mean you you don't want to be no hit no team wants to be shut out no team wants to lose no team wants to be no get anything like that.

[00:18:07] Bring the third base man in if you think the guys going to put his way on personally I don't have a problem with that but I know a lot of managers specifically managers catchers and pictures have a serious issue with that type of way to break something up that could be historical.

[00:18:25] Up eight nothing top nine guy on second steals third.

[00:18:31] It's probably defensive indifference they probably aren't even holding so it's okay if you're going to be able to go uncontested and that's not going to take it.

[00:18:40] Yeah that's kind of like guys it's corneal it's almost like basketball if you're beating me by 30 yeah and I keep my starters out there.

[00:18:51] You have every right to keep your starters.

[00:18:54] Yeah I'm the one who has to concede on the one who has to say okay here's the white flag i'm bringing in my six seven eight nine and ten guys then you make that move but you don't do that necessarily until I'm the first one to make that.

[00:19:11] You know fits a you're wearing the jersey of one of the great grudge holders and and justice deliverers in modern day major league history with Roger Clemens and you being a red socks guy.

[00:19:23] I would have to think that in your years of being a socks fan you have seen some vivid demonstrations of the art of frontier justice when an unwritten rule is broken.

[00:19:36] I have no idea what you're talking about.

[00:19:39] Ask Mike Piazza at some point.

[00:19:44] I mean the one the one thing that the one that stands out to me I mean it's it's about there if you've never seen it i don't know how you've missed it is benches clearing brawl socks Yankees

[00:19:56] Pedro Martinez shows down or Don Zimmer you know I mean as a socks fan did I like it i was caught up in the moment but was it right no not at all I mean I'm not i'm not for punches i'm not for brawls or anything like that when you you know I don't remember how old Pedro was at the time or how

[00:20:18] much time it was but they weren't that's it's not it's not okay that's you know it's it's one of those but here's so here's what I would ask you though and Don Zimmer used to be a red socks as you know

[00:20:30] where's the line what's Pedro Martinez supposed to do there right.

[00:20:35] I think this is where this is where sometimes it's a good discussion but I try to put myself in somebody else's situation.

[00:20:44] I think we love the emotional part of sports right I mean it's what brings us together and sometimes what divides us quite honestly.

[00:20:54] We'll get upset at an umpire calling strike three that might be just a little bit outside the black I mean we will go absolutely crazy we'll go nuts if a guy misses three triples in a row

[00:21:09] and a player who's performing during the act of activity can't get upset right that's pretty hypocritical on our part.

[00:21:20] Yeah that is very true I you know I think through not just in baseball but in some of the other sports those moments when the tempers flare because of whatever offense that has taken place but in baseball is the most unusual in my mind because

[00:21:35] a third of your team has to run about 120 yards to get near the point of tension I've always wondered and she up you're the only one of us who's been in conversation with some of those guys who may have at some point in their careers made that run in.

[00:21:52] Do they ever talk to you about how yeah we kind of have to go but yeah nobody really wants to go.

[00:22:00] They're not they're not coming in like the sharks and the jets. No no they're not looking at to really ruffle many feathers I mean there are exceptions of course I mean tires and twins way back in the day I suppose yeah um but I will tell you this there are certain players and there are certain managers and coaches who when they look back at it they do see

[00:22:23] and take note of which players are running to a player's defense okay who's the first one out of the dugout to help.

[00:22:32] Who's the first one to congratulate a guy on a home run? Who's the first one to go and save a player.

[00:22:40] Who's the first one when a player is down in basketball? Who's the first one off the bench to try and help him off the floor?

[00:22:47] It tells you a lot about the camaraderie, the chemistry that togetherness. It also tells you a lot about the player good or bad if no one's coming to help him.

[00:22:58] If no one's there to congratulate him. If no one's there to back him up it tells you something about the team and specifically the player.

[00:23:06] Yes so Scott I'm wondering if you got any player in mind that would be in that latter category that Matt was talking about where an awkward moment arose where he turned around and there was nobody from his dugout coming to his aid.

[00:23:20] I mean there are some guys who are unpopular teammates who in a time of need might be left on their own little island.

[00:23:30] Yeah I mean fortunately the Cubs don't have any of those were such a tight knit family at this season.

[00:23:36] But I can think of a couple Padres I think or I can pick out a team or two where I might say yeah I think I would have figured it out.

[00:23:44] I think I could think of one player Alex Rodriguez.

[00:23:47] Yeah exactly right.

[00:23:48] Well I was flashing back to those days when the Tigers would have Gibson and Lance Parrish Larry Herndon and some of those guys you know the old 84 team.

[00:23:59] And those guys I mean they were ready to roll and rumble whenever the moment came up whenever whenever the need arose and it didn't arise very much because most batters even if they really thought about a trip to the mound would turn around and see Lance behind them.

[00:24:15] Well I don't think that was a very you know it was a business decision I think we call it.

[00:24:20] Yeah he's a big bad man and Larry Herndon was a soft spoken but he was a son of a gun.

[00:24:24] Yes for sure.

[00:24:25] Yeah the stories I've been fortunate to hang around with those guys quite a bit the stories are incredible quite honestly.

[00:24:33] The challenges and those who were yapping at him a little bit but then realized this probably isn't good for my career in the last belt situation.

[00:24:44] Peacefully is there any more vivid example than a misguided outburst of anger then Robin Ventura coming to see Nolan Ryan on the mount.

[00:24:56] It is the all time most I mean it's the one you just want to watch on a loop as you see the old cowboy just kind of waiting for this kid to come out there.

[00:25:05] Yeah and then he delivers the old you know the full beat down and I can't remember but I think he used his pitching hand for the right uppercuts maybe I have that backwards but

[00:25:13] you know you would never recommend that these days for a pitcher making 35 million a year but back then Nolan who was throwing 280 innings a year.

[00:25:22] Right didn't bother him one bit take us outside of baseball shop let's go let's go unwritten rules and things let's go to basketball.

[00:25:30] I don't know if there's as long a list I remember watching a clip of a team I don't remember the two college teams.

[00:25:37] One of them was literally they were up like 25 and he was dribbling out the clock at half court and a player from the team that was losing by 25 slowly comes around behind him steals the ball goes down to dunks it.

[00:25:53] And you would have thought that he had just kicked somebody's puppy in the head I mean the place just erupted and I'm sure the guy is saying he I played till the horn but I don't know what you know in basketball.

[00:26:06] Maybe you guys have some input what would be unwritten rules are just the lines you don't cross for basketball.

[00:26:17] I think there's quite a few you guys can chime in when you want when a game is at hand.

[00:26:24] There's oftentimes you're not taking threes yeah I mean games in hand specifically college look if the reserves are in there most people will tell you if the reserves are in there and this is what I get.

[00:26:35] I got back to early.

[00:26:38] Those guys don't get a chance to play against yeah they're going to want to score so you they don't have a problem with that but it's that games out of hand and your starters are still out there and you're still chucking now what the here's the difference in hockey you can go toe to toe in baseball there might be repercussions when you step in the batter's box sometime either that series or a series later on in the season

[00:27:03] what's the repercussion in basketball taking a guy's legs out right goes up redunk I mean that's that is that's obviously a no you're not going low below the the waistline so that's absolutely a no no what else is there there's you're kind of limited.

[00:27:20] The other threes major sports hockey baseball football you can do something about basketball it's a little more challenging I think to do that.

[00:27:28] That's good point and basketball these days are is such a timid rules at that you you'll end up hurting yourself with a five game suspension if you overdo whatever this you have you have in your mind.

[00:27:40] Those guys are all those guys are so friendly.

[00:27:43] We see them I guess we see them football to see it guys exchanging jerseys incoming in midfield oftentimes you'll see them all take me and pray together a number of them but in basketball especially they seem to be very chummy.

[00:28:00] And less likely to have that type of friction that you'll see in the other three sports here during the heat about or at the end of a heated battle you're absolutely right in the days of my horn and lamb beer are long since.

[00:28:13] It's gone yeah but you know where I think it's crept in is in the women's game.

[00:28:19] It may not be as physically violent but it is as intense and you know you watch whether it's Caitlin Clark or some of these college players and they are into their trash talk they are into their their taunting and they're not going to throw they're not going to throw a haymaker but it's it's a different standard to which they are held in that that the temper does get turned on.

[00:28:42] The temper does get turned up a little bit.

[00:28:45] I don't know about you guys I think there's some people who feel that find it as a turn off yes quite honestly there seems to be more.

[00:28:53] Smack talk he in basketball there's quite a bit I think there's quite a bit of hockey and football too quite honestly I mean the guys are constantly chirping in football after attack all.

[00:29:04] I mean you have to have that dumb button ready on a regular basis but there's plenty of chirping going on but it's less provotto and more egging somebody on and putting somebody down where is in basketball seems to be more of a look at me moment.

[00:29:22] And I think it's you're right especially in the women's game and I think a lot of people have found that to be some people find it entertaining but in the long run I mean I don't know if you're talking about angel research or not.

[00:29:33] But we all know what happened there and how she was more than willing to showcase when Clark who got the ring wave goodbye to UCLA then what it happens to her and she has tears of disappointment and sadness.

[00:29:47] It's tough to find a soft shoulder to crying outside yes especially when she declared that everybody has always been out to get her and all of that all of that victimhood that comes when you're on the the short end of the road.

[00:30:00] True at all man it's just not true at all. I mean we we get so caught up in such a small window right it's so reactionary and it's so emotion that suddenly everybody's out to get me when you forget the other years you were there and everybody was parading you right as an all American right your own coach suspended you earlier in the season because of the way you're behaved.

[00:30:29] I don't know what you mean by everybody's always out to get you I think that's a that's a you know one of those situations where today's day and age without sound like an old guy.

[00:30:40] Everybody's got to be thrown rose petals at your feet and that's just not the way it works in the world.

[00:30:45] Let me let me dial us back to baseball a little bit here I'm going to play another sound bite from another exciting base brawl and then I'd love to just kind of round table through some of the

[00:30:56] rules changes in the game here we are in the first week of a new season so let's kind of look at where we are with everything but first we don't want to pass up these very special moments of personal interaction and here in the in the mindset of church

[00:31:09] Puse sports fellowship on the infield Louise Cruz fields the ball then motions for pitcher Arnold Leon to hit the next batter.

[00:31:21] Next batter Leon's first pitch inside on Renée to Sony second pitch inside again they stare at the mound on fire Brian Gorman warns both benches I just get hit I mean that was me that was like a 80 mile

[00:31:36] mile per hour fast third pitch off the back benches Clarence and pushing some shavon Tyson guillies going to take down Alfredo a sabus who gets right up and chases guillies.

[00:31:51] Oh wow take down that was from a world baseball classic it's got you probably have all these moments memorized.

[00:31:58] So let me ask you Scott is the guy who lives in bleeds baseball 2023 rule changes did they work as we head into 2024 how did the game hold up with pitch clocks and defensive shift restrictions and box a basis the size of pizza boxes.

[00:32:17] Well I would have to say overall it was a success across the board I think you know you can nitpick about the details about certain things and in fact you know even the pitch clock issue has been tweaked again this year to try to resolve some of that but overall trying to understand what the goal was on behalf of major league baseball to try to get more viewers try to keep people's attention.

[00:32:42] You know I think the pitch clock thing was was excellent the games that I went to I would just try to sit back and watch the game progress and it moved along you know not even looking at what the clock was behind the empire out in center field and just paying attention to pace of play you didn't have the endless sort of wrapping and unwrapping a batting gloves and sort of the staring off into space and the you know how many times you have to adjust the helmet or whatever.

[00:33:09] The game just moved along at a very positive clip and so the pitch clock issue all by itself I think was a very strong success the shift restrictions I also really felt like helped especially the optics of the game the optics of the game which allow the athletes to be more athletic meaning those middle infielders had to range much further and show off their skills and how do they get that ball that's dropping into short right field instead of some guys just standing there catching it not just.

[00:33:39] So it was a very special and it made the game look more athletic and it certainly sort of brought back I think the game that we all remember years before before the shifts became just like a commonplace thing.

[00:33:51] The bigger bases I don't know about that if that extra pizza box space book but especially the throw overs the fact that a picture was restricted on how many throws the first base there is no denying that the stolen base rate climbed again and actually there were many records you know.

[00:34:08] And you saw running reenter the strategy after years of saber metrics had pretty much said it's not worth the risk right losing the base runner so I think in those things.

[00:34:18] For as granular summer and silly you know they might have seemed to be I think over all those rules at least to me all seem to improve the game you know top to bottom yeah if it's see did you enjoy the game more post rule changes not and there are some more.

[00:34:37] That are kicking in fresh for this year but where's your fandom after you analyze the changes.

[00:34:47] You know regards to like the pitch clock and all that wonderful stuff you know it moves the game along you know it's I'm not watching a red stock Yankee game for eight hours on a Sunday night on a Sunday night baseball game.

[00:35:01] But with the pitch clock and the mound visits and everything like that you know I think I watched last year the game was done in like two hours two and a half hours.

[00:35:11] And for me that was like oh I have a whole night now like what's going on so it moves the game along I like it a lot more I don't miss the you know five hour six hour baseball games on Sunday night on ESPN.

[00:35:25] I would add this in 1984 the average tiger game I believe was two hours and 34 minutes wow they didn't have larger bases they didn't have restrictions on throwovers they didn't have a pitch clock they didn't have the number of times you can disengage from the rubber or anything like that right.

[00:35:46] I think the problem that baseball has had and we I had a meeting in New York last year before the rules were implemented and I asked this question we are actually in California but we brought in somebody from MLB in from New York and I asked this question.

[00:36:04] There's a rule in the major league baseball rule book that says a picture has 12 seconds to deliver the baseball.

[00:36:14] Why is it you don't implement that rule you didn't need to change anything quite honestly all you had to do was enforce the rule.

[00:36:25] They didn't enforce the rule before the clock helped you enforce the rule the rule actually went from 12 seconds to 15 right is that what it was guys refresh my mind with nobody on base I think nobody on base right.

[00:36:42] When from 12 to 15 they actually increased it I said why wouldn't you just keep it at 12 and they said well we like the number of 15 who just felt like it was easier to handle.

[00:36:55] I have I came around a little bit to the fact that you couldn't have a shift.

[00:37:03] I didn't have a problem with that my issue was that all the infielders had to have two feet on the skin yeah so in other words you couldn't play two steps back of shortstop which guys back in the day as you Smith Alan Tramble Cal Ruben they all did and then they would charge the ball okay.

[00:37:25] So that's fine the disengagement that helps an awful lot the number of throws to first.

[00:37:34] You know to just have two disengagedments I thought was ridiculous I mean I know you you guys brought a pace of play so I never thought baseball had a problem in terms of length I'll

[00:37:46] hear how long the game is what I care about how the pace of play goes and I think that's what the rules were supposed they were to generate more offense and more action and better pace of play.

[00:37:58] And I think it accomplished all that do I think they needed to go to those extremes absolutely not they needed to implement rules that they currently had and they needed to use some common sense alright you want to run more that's great bigger basis it does help and it does help

[00:38:15] with the injuries too but limiting throws to second to first base checking on a runner only twice two disengagedments and on the third time that guy's gone I think is kind of it's just kind of making

[00:38:29] mouse to me I think you're over but policing the game when you're having this many different rules that you're trying to follow and trying to

[00:38:40] understand fans don't always understand it yeah the pace of play was great yes there is more action yes there is more athleticism I love all that I still think we could have gotten it even though we didn't

[00:38:52] have had all those rules but just some and and ship you you mentioned 84 with the time the total running time of a game I also remember that there was

[00:39:02] something back then Scott you can chime in on this to there was something back then that was called a complete game and for those of you who are younger

[00:39:11] and you're used to a team using nine pictures in a game and your starter might get four and a half innings and he's not mad when he's taken out right and he might even have

[00:39:21] a one nothing lead or something but because his pitch count has been reached and now here's your specialist for the fifth and sixth

[00:39:28] and then you're seven eight tonight I think part of what stretch to the time of the games out was just these insipid pitching changes that are I

[00:39:37] I believe fueled by the analytics and governing a team by by statistical analysis in 84 sparky would basically have needed a taser to get the ball

[00:39:49] out of Jack Morris's hand in the eighth inning if he had a lead of two to nothing or two you know that kind of a thing so part of part of the evolution or the

[00:39:59] devolving of the game depending on your perspective could have to do with the infusion of data as opposed to managerial gut hunches and expertise

[00:40:13] probably what necessitated all of these changes is that the overlords of the game decided oh we're losing everybody we're losing

[00:40:23] we're losing everybody because of this and there's no rhythm to the game anymore I don't Scott is that is that a fair analysis of maybe the the timeline of what led to these

[00:40:33] changes yeah certainly the evolution of pitching has has fed into that you know the the the perfect example of that was I believe it was the

[00:40:43] the world series in 20 the rays and the Dodgers and cash went out and pulled his picture

[00:40:50] who is pitching he was pitching a fantastic game because of oh it's the third time through the order we just don't do that

[00:40:56] because the analytics say don't do that you know it's like are you kidding me it's the world series or like you know a guy pitching a no hitter and always reach this pitch count we got to pull him out

[00:41:06] I mean it is a different game it's in that sense of it and and I certainly missed the days of Fergie Jenkins starting 40 games completing 27 of them pitching 360 innings right that that that

[00:41:19] that that to me is just demonstrates the workload and and the perseverance and the stamina necessary to do that and and so they try to mitigate that with

[00:41:29] the three batter minimum you know for relief pitchers it's sort of eliminated the lefty specialists who come into face one guy you know that sort of sped it up a little bit too but you know I don't know if you're ever

[00:41:41] going to get rid of the analytics right they the those the data driven methodologies and strategies that are employed now those are here to stay I think they'll just continue

[00:41:50] to get refined and be did beat around so I think something needed to be done because you know like like John's point like those those Yankee red sucks games

[00:42:02] I would watch them it be 2 a.m. I got to get up to go to work I mean you're losing the fans right you're kind of stretching well beyond our stamina at that point and they had to do something to bring it in so

[00:42:14] it's complex it's complicated I don't know where you find the perfect place I'm happy with where the game is now you know do they have to take two seconds

[00:42:25] back in the pitch clock again this year and and make it another confusing well wait I thought it was 20 seconds wise at 18 right I don't know if they need to keep doing that but something needed to be done I think they've addressed some of them I just hope

[00:42:38] they don't keep over tampering.

[00:42:41] Chef I was at the Tigers spring training opener against the Yankees you know what a few weeks ago now and we had seats that were very nice they're right behind home plate about 5 6 rows and we were surrounded by

[00:42:54] scouts in Jim Leeland was right over my shoulder and so was you know that that department and all these young guys had their stopwatches and clipboards and some of them had iPads and I could tell they were

[00:43:07] working and they were looking at whatever and I didn't know what the current pitch clock rules work as I knew they had been tweaked a little bit so in between

[00:43:17] innings I didn't want to disrupt the fragile genius who was in front of me with his iPad and his stopwatch so I waited until in between innings and I leaned forward I tapped him

[00:43:26] on the shoulder and I said hey tell me I was something what are the changes to the pitch clock for this year and he looked at me as if I had asked him for

[00:43:36] the keys to his car and he goes why would I know I don't have any idea I'm like aren't you part of scouting department and he's clearly charting pitches

[00:43:46] I thought perhaps this would be part of his skill set but I apparently asked a wrong question to the wrong guy.

[00:43:53] That's kind of what I mean I mean there's so many rules that people your brain just gets scrambled.

[00:43:58] I'm sure that's fortunate to work with AJ Hinge and he's so on top of all of that but just a couple of things.

[00:44:04] You'd mentioned the 84 Tigers. I think there are only 10 pitches for the Tigers back in 84.

[00:44:09] There's a difference there. That's part of the reason why guys are going deeper right? I mean guys going they can 33 starts, 34 starts.

[00:44:16] The other thing is we bring up the Blake Snell situation with Kevin Cash and Tampa and it's a fair example what we forget is the year before when the nationals won.

[00:44:27] Dave Martinez did the same thing. The difference is his team won the game his team won the World Series.

[00:44:34] Blake Snell and Tampa lost that game and didn't win the World Series.

[00:44:39] We remember that aspect of it and rightfully so because I remember it too but we also didn't recognize the fact that a year before maybe first of all Kevin Cash had done that with Blake Snell and everybody all season long.

[00:44:53] It's the reason he felt like they got to the World Series. I didn't agree with it by the way but it's the reason they got to the World Series and the year before it was done.

[00:45:01] It was done by somebody else. We just lost over because they haven't a win. I think it was with Steven Strossberg that they did it with or maybe somebody else but I can't recall exactly who it was.

[00:45:14] But Dave Martinez got away with there so there's a huge difference there.

[00:45:20] That is really good. Shut before we move on to our next little block here, where do we hear you these days? What are you up to?

[00:45:29] Yeah I'm doing some things for a start of company called Sports News Highlights and doing some freelance work there and still doing a little bit of work for Valley Sports as well.

[00:45:40] So we're working on a few different projects here and we'll see if something comes to fruition.

[00:45:45] Well I met what I said when I introduced you. I think you're one of the most talented voices in the game any sport and so versatile and I know good things will happen for you.

[00:45:54] We are going to give you a chance here along with the rest of us to blow off a little steam on anything that might be irritating you these days.

[00:46:01] We call it holy discontent.

[00:46:04] It's time to blow off some steam. Get it off your chest rant about what's most bothering you.

[00:46:14] I got a lot of problems with you people. You're going to hear about it.

[00:46:18] It's time for holy discontent.

[00:46:21] That's right. This is our cathartic moment.

[00:46:24] Who's cruger?

[00:46:27] Which one's cruger? Which one's cruger?

[00:46:30] I love festivists. It's the very best.

[00:46:33] As a host, I'm supposed to go last but for this one, I'm going to go first because I'm going to play a sound bite that explains my holy discontent.

[00:46:41] So here we go.

[00:46:43] Well before we start this Alite game here in Portland, want to let you know of some news that happened free game.

[00:46:47] The NCAA was made aware that the top of the key to the three-point line in the space on either side of the floor looked to be different.

[00:46:54] The NCAA notified both coaches and approximately noon local time three Eastern both Westmore and Vic Schafer came out to the floor to take a look at it.

[00:47:04] They asked for the NCAA to measure and they did that.

[00:47:07] NCAA measure from the baseline to the top of the three-point line and found there was a discrepancy on one end of the floor from the other but both Vic Schafer and Westmore have agreed to go ahead and play this game to avoid any delays.

[00:47:23] Brook Weiss from what have you learned talking with Lisa Peterson of the NCAA?

[00:47:28] We are talking about NCAA tournament time.

[00:47:30] We're talking elite eight time and the discovery that the basketball court was miss marked in the two three-point arcs at either end to the floor were not the same and adding to my holy discontent.

[00:47:46] It turns out a couple of days later an apologetic statement went out from the marketing executive of the company that makes the floors and they're based in Michigan.

[00:47:57] They're based on the upper peninsula of Michigan and they fast up and they said this is the biggest mistake we've ever made.

[00:48:06] I mean, it's a good news to them actually for stepping up and saying it but yeah, that's a bummer.

[00:48:12] You just don't think that's going to happen at that point of the season for sure.

[00:48:16] All right, Scott, holy discontent?

[00:48:19] Well besides my never ending holy discontent about the K-zone graphic which I've prattled on about enough.

[00:48:27] I thought it was uniform.

[00:48:28] Why put it no, why put a graphic up there that everybody watching the game knows whether it's a baller strike and the one guy behind the plate who supposed to call it has no clue whether it's a baller strike.

[00:48:38] So we'll let that one go for me.

[00:48:41] Okay, so this is I had a friend who lives in Scotland who hates all the betting in Scottish Premier League soccer right and we're beginning to see the same thing in baseball right with the sports books and this constant overloy of betting.

[00:48:55] And to take something as simple as mound ball now if you guys know what mound ball is sure it's the little game where the umpire rolls after the innings over the umpire won't play down for takes the ball rolls it back out to the mound and for years players used to play that game in the dugout like is the ball going to stand the mound or roll off and they'd have a great old time of the dugout.

[00:49:17] So now we are betting on mound ball at that point I'm like you got to be kidding me let's please.

[00:49:24] So I got it so I gotta ask you this because my friends and I used to play that in the stand we played mumble.

[00:49:33] When we see what I but when we see all the betting take place and leagues are making so much money off it.

[00:49:42] So you've got whispers of players being involved and not just baseball right I mean first of all I can't stand the little ads on jerseys right on helmets we're getting close to the KVO

[00:49:54] and the same thing in hockey where you're seeing on jerseys and helmets you're getting close to the finish league and all that other stuff is your frustration about the betting or what they're betting on or both.

[00:50:06] To me to me it's a little bit of it's all it kind of all blends together at that point because you can't distinguish one for the other like I don't mind baseball is is the history of advertising billboards on the outfield wall so I don't mind that economics is infringing in a part of the sport but it's when it's encouraged especially when gambling and betting can become a problem right and that's the thing that my friend in Scotland he told me stories and he's like it's just it's so over the top.

[00:50:35] So perhaps I'm a little too sensitive to that but come on mound ball.

[00:50:40] Mound ball I mean next you know a little league fields are going to be selling raffles against for mound ball right and then the ups are going to be in on it and it's going to be a scandal about all that.

[00:50:51] Don't give me any ideas.

[00:50:52] All right Fitsy you're holy just content.

[00:50:55] You know I went before them this one but I think I'm going to piggyback off the betting part of it is that you know there used to be a baseball player by the name of Pete Rose who's not in the Hall of Fame because of gambling issues and now all these gambling sites and you have you know.

[00:51:14] All these you know players I'm sure players are betting at some point and everything like that is when it when do we as well we as like baseball I guess when did the baseball people decide to you know turn the other cheek and let Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame.

[00:51:35] All right what happens if what happens to Tony yes actually did it that's probably where you're going with it right I think that's another issue to do I think that on tiny investigation is going to have all of the energy behind it of a burned out light bulb right.

[00:51:50] The guys have marketing machine there's nothing going on shut what your holy discontent well my discontent is for some reason we've been preaching to our kids and telling people in general.

[00:52:02] That sports is about the color of the uniform and not the color of the person in the uniform yeah and then you have a NBA all a favor like Paul Pierce.

[00:52:11] Come on FS ones undisputed show and say we saw a white girl and I would do it to a bunch of black girls that gain an eye respect he said she didn't do this to some other little white girls it was over here in Colorado.

[00:52:23] So she did this to some girls and LSU who we thought were dogs and well the stereotypes are getting old yep and I thought we were past it that a white girl can only do it against other white girls over and over and over again.

[00:52:37] We've seen it proven wrong yes black players can play quarterback yes white receivers are more than possession targets yes there can be successful black head coaches and yes white players can play basketball.

[00:52:52] And yes white players can be running backs to when I grew up my dad used to take me to tiger games a tiger stadium and it didn't matter who was in the uniform what mattered was the old English D right that was first and foremost.

[00:53:12] I don't care if it was Al Cahman's okay in the uniform or if it was you know somebody else you know all that mattered was that he was a Detroit tiger and for Paul Pierce who I guess a lot of people would be you know very respectful of because what is accomplished for him to come on with these moronic notions

[00:53:36] and expect us to take him seriously I mean I guess here's what happens I think in sports we start gravitating toward a story and then we want to give an opinion on the story when we haven't followed it.

[00:53:51] I got not sure Paul Pierce knows this but Caitlin Clark had 44 against Aethering Virginia Tech earlier this year they had six players who were of African American yeah she scored 80 points in two games against Ohio state

[00:54:05] they have nine black black players on their team last year Caitlin Clark scored 30 against LSU in the national championship game and those black players and she scored 41 against South Carolina last year who was full of black players.

[00:54:26] It forces people like me to now bring that into the equation and into the discussion when I wouldn't even thought of that before yeah and it bothers me Paul Pierce and maybe what bothers me even more Billy is well he's making this day and I don't know if you guys saw it.

[00:54:46] I know what you're going to say yep all you see is Keishan Johnson and Skit Bayless go yeah just told you no pushback no challenge no no challenge.

[00:54:55] No no challenge and it's really too bad of course that's the way it's turned out with our media these days but I mean it's really too bad that somebody think oh wait hold on a second Paul.

[00:55:06] But here's the reason Paul Pierce obviously hasn't seen Caitlin Clark play very much right and he sure didn't follow her a year ago and neither to Keishan Johnson or Skit Bayless Skit Bayless took a day off from bashing the Dallas Cowboys and what they thought oh you know what we're going to give some love

[00:55:24] to some women's college basketball and all it did was turn into this roll in the mud crap discussion yeah yeah it was yeah you're right it should have been called out it wasn't because the sick of fans were just nodding there's a lack of thought in most of those talk shows and that was certainly not one of their shining moments to say the least

[00:55:44] to further to further thank you. Thank you just one shining moment the ball is so to further butchress what she had to say about Caitlin's performance in that game let me bring in our useless stand of the week

[00:55:59] people can come up with statistics to prove anything 40% of all people know that so that game drew 12.3 million viewers for a women's elite eight not final not final four elite eight game LSU Iowa that 12.3 million viewers out drew every NBA game last season except game five of the finals

[00:56:28] every college football game last season except for Ohio State Michigan and the SEC championship and every major league baseball game including World Series games from last year.

[00:56:43] That lense it's that lense itself to a much more positive and insightful line of commentary from from from from the talk shows from skip and from Keeshawn and from from all of them they could have talked about that part of it as opposed to the racial side of it so good point made by chef for sure we're going to round things out with our three minute message and I'll bring that home for us today Paul was going to have this one.

[00:57:12] He left here we go.

[00:57:17] I am who built his house on sand and you remember Matthew 21 17 and he left them and went out of the city into Bethany and he logged there.

[00:57:32] Yeah think about it indeed and this is where we try to connect our topic into life and faith and we started off talking about unwritten rules in the other brawls that often result from the breaking of those rules.

[00:57:47] We were reminded in Matthew five in the sermon on the mount Matthew 5 38 and 39 Jesus said you have heard that it was said I for I and tooth for tooth but I tell you do not resist an evil person if anyone slaps you on the right cheek turn to them the other cheek also.

[00:58:05] And thus the concept of turning the other cheek became part of our lexicon for well for generations and it's a difficult one to grasp especially because we are in a confrontational culture.

[00:58:18] As Jesus is commanding us to turn the other cheek just so we all understand when he said it in that sermon on the mount setting it was counter cultural as well.

[00:58:30] It was an exhortation to to meekness and not always having to respond in kind to whoever offended you whether you're thinking of this in the terms of an actual physical slap to your face or maybe a slap to your ego or your position or some sort of an insult or the breaking of an unwritten rule and I understand that in team sports there's a different ethos that goes into all that.

[00:58:54] But our encouragement is if we're truly seeking after the path that has us being imitators of Christ if that's what we're truly after.

[00:59:04] Then we have to follow his words realizing that the number of times in his earthly ministry that he was offended, vilified, slapped, beaten and what were what were some of the last words that Jesus said.

[00:59:23] That Jesus spoke aloud from the cross.

[00:59:28] Father forgive them.

[00:59:30] They don't know what they're doing. They still know what they're doing.

[00:59:34] I don't profess to have anywhere near that level of perspective or divine wisdom to be in a situation where I'm thinking okay wait a minute just forgive that guy because you rip me off or forgive that guy for what he called.

[00:59:48] I don't have that but I need to. I need to get better at it.

[00:59:52] So our encouragement is read through that sermon on the mount and find the number of things in there that Jesus says that are counter cultural to 2024

[01:00:01] and remember how counter cultural they were when he spoke them to that crowd just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean that crowd knew that they were going to end up in the Bible.

[01:00:10] They weren't sitting there going you know if we sit here and take all this in some day we're going to be in the gospel.

[01:00:16] That wasn't a thing. So they were hearing these statements their minds were blown and here we are now in 2024.

[01:00:27] In many ways those things still blow our minds so in your personal world of unwritten rules when somebody breaks one of them let's remember that we are exorded to turn the other cheek even when we are wronged and we are we're going to be wronged.

[01:00:44] I think of a number of examples for a number of friends of mine who have been wronged and my prayer for all of us is that we would have the maturity to be like Christ and remember his teaching on that.

[01:00:55] Sure appreciate you all being with us today as chef thank you so much for.

[01:00:58] Thank you.

[01:00:59] Glad to have you.

[01:01:00] The next bowl of discussion fellas keep up the passion.

[01:01:03] Yeah man good to see you.

[01:01:04] Thanks so much Scott thank you so much and a reminder that you can check out every episode we've ever done by going to churchpewsports.com

[01:01:13] We'd love to have you share the link with other sports fans in your world.

[01:01:16] We'll see you next week.