The Agony of Defeat - Crushing Sports Losses

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[00:00:58] That man next thing you somebody that gets to heaven! Two days! All the glory we've got tomorrow! We got now! And with that we welcome you in to Church Pew Sports. It's great to have you with this in case you're wondering,

[00:01:12] We're going to talk today about some really difficult times. The Agony of Defeat, the Crushing Losses that you have watched or maybe even experienced In your life as a fan or perhaps as a competitor, it's great to have you with us.

[00:01:26] Thank you for subscribing to the podcast and hopefully sharing the link with somebody else in your world. Bill Hopsen here, joined by Paul Miller, who is a man. Paul, I gotta get this title right now. You've changed titles on me, so give me the right title.

[00:01:41] I'm on the National Directional Team for the Eve Angelico Free Church of America. Thank you. I had youth in there somewhere in my head, so I was part of my responsibility. Primary piece of it is reach students. That's what you're thinking about.

[00:01:54] Well, your are a wreck was it pastor? We talked about pastors being on the show. So you're filling that slot today. I'll try to sound pastor. It's reach for me and I'll try to. I'm going to be a good.

[00:02:05] Also joined by Scott Holmgren who checks in with us from the Orlando areas, but with us a number of times and Scott is just counting down the days you can picture in his den at HolmPaul. The big calendar with an axe, counting down the days until baseball begins.

[00:02:22] Because that's right. I mean Scott, that's really it for you. Yeah, we are almost out of the dead season. This time when there's nothing going on in the world sports. As soon as pictures and catchers report, and that we fly the W we're ready to go.

[00:02:35] Oh man, that's awesome. And we have had Kurt David with us a few times. He hosts a television program called From Glory Days. He's also a speaker and an author and a competitor.

[00:02:46] Played college and professional basketball and Kurt's good to have you with us again my friend house life. They great to be here and as a qualified. That was 40 pounds ago. I don't go by years. I go by pound. Good idea for all of us probably.

[00:03:00] Okay, so this topic of the agony of defeat. Of course in my world at least was brought bubbling to the surface by the third quarter of the NFC championship game as in a really really lightning fast span of about eight minutes of game time.

[00:03:20] My lions went from a 24 to seven lead to tide and soon to be trailing it was just like, a flurry. I never saw it coming lightning strike and at the end you just left staring at the TV like what just happened. What in the world just happened?

[00:03:38] And then trying to filter it through your life as both a lion's fan and a sports fan. It kind of rank it for the pain level. You know, where did this put you? And as we talk with everybody today about your your ultimate agony of defeat moments,

[00:03:56] just a little spoiler alert for me that didn't end up as my number one. I've got some others. So where are you with this whole episode is like couch time for you? Yes, essentially.

[00:04:07] And I probably full disclosure, I probably should let you guys know that it is pretty much my wife's fault that the lion's lost because whenever Bobby says to me. So it's over like the lions are going to the Super Bowl when in the game to see under that.

[00:04:22] Half time. Oh, Bobby. Half time. That was I knew right then that we were in trouble. So you so I apologize. On behalf of Bobby I apologize. That's not going to cut it. There need to be some cookies. Oh, alright. Let's get into it.

[00:04:39] Scott, why don't you start us off when we talk about those moments that just crushed your sports soul. What's the top of your leaderboard? Well, if you didn't guess by my little rant there about baseball season starting as a cubs fan.

[00:04:53] I think everybody can just imagine and go back to that evening in October of 2003. Right. The media and the rest of the free world knows that game by a name which I will not repeat basically.

[00:05:08] He who shall not be named and for good reason to the guy has suffered plenty right. But you know, as a cubs fan, you have to remember 2003 I'm watching that game. The cubs have not been in a world series for 58 years at that time.

[00:05:25] Now, don't say anything about winning what just being in a world series for 58 years. And I had the wonderful opportunity to drive for Orlando down to Miami to see game three.

[00:05:36] So I was there at what used to be known as pro player stadium for game three and it was a great game that went into extra.

[00:05:42] It went into extra innings. The game was tied for four and Doug Landville comes up. He hits a triple to drive in Kenny loftin and the cubs won and then they won another one.

[00:05:51] So by the time he get the game six back and really the cubs are leading the series three to two. And Mark prior who at the time was just this dominant force on the hill was cruising right.

[00:06:02] He's just flying through and the cubs are up three to nothing in the top of the eighth inning. Their win probability is 95% told. So it's not how that's that back then. They're winning three to nothing. There's one on and there's already one out.

[00:06:19] They're five out of the way from going to the world series. And it's at that moment that Louis Castillo hits a foul ball down the third baseline. You've seen this happen here before. It's awfully close to fan interference right there.

[00:06:46] The uppires all over and that's to reach into the stance. It's fair game for the fans to catch the ball. The fan reaches out over the field. Then it can be real fan interference. That is very, very close. And that's a confident try to make that catch. Why?

[00:07:08] Why? I know it's like why, why but but in all perfect candor at that moment.

[00:07:18] Castillo gets on base. The cubs are still up three to nothing with runners on first and third with one out to all you need is a ground ball double play in your out in the inning.

[00:07:27] Right. So when we talk about the agony that I'm going to rank these kind of the agony factor. There's no agony there yet. There's just sort of an unfortunate incident by some guy wearing headphones.

[00:07:37] And you know what the game goes on they can still get out of this right now. So in the moment. Hey guys, Scott was going to say name but there was a 30 for 30 made about it. So it's part. It's the Bartman game.

[00:07:51] That's for guys suffers to this day suffers. It's not very pastoral of you to out the guy like that. It wasn't a confidentiality thing between me and Bartman. It was between Scott and Bartman. Yeah, he hasn't got a book deal yet or anything like that.

[00:08:06] You think it ever book deal? No, you're right. In Kurt, that's like I need to get under show. You can find it. So anyway, you know for cubs fans, the agony begins because Mark prior is gasped.

[00:08:18] And you just kind of watch his pitches and foul balls are being rocketed off his pitch. And dusty baker who's the manager for the cup at the time leaves him in. And the next thing that happens is Iván Rodriguez singles in a run.

[00:08:30] Okay, well, it's three to one still not that big a deal. And there's another chance for double play, right? But guess who waltzes to the plate? A 20 year old Miguel Cabrera. If you can remember that far back before the the old English D.

[00:08:44] Grace does uniform for that many years. He was a Miami or Florida at the time Florida, Marlin. And when he comes up to bat this happens. Miguel Cabrera is old for three. He homered off fire his first shot of this series again too.

[00:09:00] Well, Bono, Ho is short and bono by God's always in everybody's safe. Going to turn the double play, they certainly would have gotten the force out of second base on air on Alex. Gonzalo. And it all came crashing down. That is the first taste of agony.

[00:09:22] That's such an easy play. Just an out that's all they need to because the next guy up is Derek Lee and he hits a double. Pile on the agony and the Marlin's going to score eight runs in that inning from three to nothing to eight to three.

[00:09:34] Talk about pure agony. Don't forget there wasn't going to be a game seven but Kerry would go blown out of, off, out of, out of, or ugly field at that point. But ultimately what makes it pure agony for me guys,

[00:09:45] the kicker my wife had purchased world series tickets for me. Oh, no. Oh, no. It's a rigley for world series game. So you talk about agony after the fact that just ripped my heart right out of my chest. That was a blow.

[00:09:59] That is the tag on the end of the story that makes it hurt a little bit more. So when I'm curious, when you did with the tickets, okay? What did you do with the tickets? She may have them somewhere. I should really go look for them all though.

[00:10:12] Maybe we burn them at some point. I was going to ask if it stopped bleeding out when the cubs finally won the world series. 14 years later. 13 years later. Yeah. It did. That was the saving grace. That was the bomb to cover it all. I know Bartman got exonerated.

[00:10:30] Everybody's happy. Hopefully everybody's forgotten about it. You know, we can even revisit some things post-world sort of world series victory. Like 2018 when we called last night at a play, one game play against the birds and blew that one. But anyways, we won't go down that road.

[00:10:44] Not that that's top of mind or anything. He's let it go. He's glad he's recovered from all that. All right, Kurt David. We're going to give Scott a chance to kind of compose himself and recover from that memory.

[00:10:55] What's at the top of the Kurt David agony of defeat list? Yeah, this is I'm going to start with number three and worked up to my number one if you don't mind. And so I have to go back from my number three to December 28th of 2008.

[00:11:08] And I don't know, I did try Lions off limits on this. Oh, it's all like a so far from what I'm here and despite their historic year this year, right? I have to go back to December 28th, 2008. The loss 31 to 21 was against Green Bay Packers.

[00:11:25] And what made that loss more of an agony was the fact that that was their old in 16th loss. That was the 16th loss of this season. And what made that even more painful for me was at the end of that season when training camp came back.

[00:11:43] There was a full back to the name of Sean McU who was cut by the Lions. And so here's the O116 team. The next ball training, a guy comes back to the name of Sean McU. They cut him. He was no good for O116 team.

[00:11:59] That same day he got a call from Pittsburgh Steelers who won this Super Bowl right year. He was talking about salt and room. First of all, they lose the game against the Packers, which made it to 16th loss to O116 season.

[00:12:12] And then that when they come back and fall training in August, they cut one of their full backs who went. It's picked up the same day to the Steelers and they went as Super Bowl. And that that's 16th loss of the season.

[00:12:24] Not only took place against the Archrivals from Green Bay, but it was in Green Bay. And here's what the last couple of seconds sounded like. I'm not gonna fool you. Somebody had been enjoying some of the Milwaukee's finest, I believe.

[00:13:04] But yeah, so that made it even more painful. That's one of the many reasons we don't really like the Packers in this part of the world. What's on your list? Paul, let's start you off. Well there's only one. Okay.

[00:13:16] And the reason I only have one is because I've been developing a theory on agony. Okay. I have this agony equation. I think agony is directly related to your expectations going into the game. Yep.

[00:13:30] As a fan, the manner in which your team loses, which will be very relevant in my one. How quickly an opportunity for redemption comes? That's why Scott I was asking you, you know, did you hold on to this for 13 years?

[00:13:42] And then how many friends are around to talk trash to you afterwards? Like I don't remember the bulls ever losing to the pistons because they immediately came back and won all their titles after that.

[00:13:56] And I probably would have moved on much more quickly from the Ohio State losses to Michigan if anyone for all the Michigan men around me that are coming at me. Right? So here's my one. Here's my one.

[00:14:06] It's, well, can we just listen to it and then I'll talk about it. Here we go. It's the famous moment. No one has the dope to drink. 40 per a year on a 10. That's impossible. He does it again. It will be full. This hit the upright and the crossbar.

[00:14:35] Oh my goodness. The pair season's going in on a double-doin. That's where the team came from. Okay, so for those of you who have forgotten, I certainly have a 2018 wildcard game against the Eagles, the bears are.

[00:14:51] Cody Parkie has hit the crossbar or the upright already in the game. They lost the game 16 to 15 because he missed the double-doin field goal. It was a wildcard game. Matt Nagy's career arc was on the way up at that moment. Think about that. Right?

[00:15:09] So now I ask yourself, what has been the trajectory of the bears and the Eagles since that game? Just think about that for a moment as a bears fan. I've had no real hope since. Narrow is pointing an opposite direction. Yes.

[00:15:23] And I still occasionally will get a text from a buddy who will ask me when something happens. So I'll just say hey, did that feel like a double-doin? It's like now there's a meme and there's a whole thing about it for me that just will not.

[00:15:36] And because I've had no opportunity. The bears have had no opportunity for redemption. So I'm stuck living in the, was that Collins worth or con at the double-doin. Yeah. That's my last memory of the bears in the playoffs, right? There's nothing I can do about it.

[00:15:52] And to go all set and you feel it with me though you should do it. To go all that way. It'd be different if you just missed it. Right. If you just pulled it but the fact it had bounced off the side. Right. And then the crossbar.

[00:16:04] This is classic Chicago bears. Classic bears. I'm going to go with my, I've got three, two, one. I've got three of them. I'll stagger him because we'll go around the horn here.

[00:16:14] So my third place, most agonizing moment that I can recall of a loss, it took place between the Wolverines of Michigan and the Spartans of Michigan State. I believe we're in 2015 but I could be wrong. I can't remember the years anymore. They all blew it together.

[00:16:33] All I know is, in a moment where this, it was, it was, it was hardball's first time first year and the Spartans had been on a little bit of a Pestory, pesky little run because Brady Hope couldn't reach Rod and all that.

[00:16:48] I mean, just, we weren't playing good football. And Jim came in and has some good position. All we had to do. All we had to do was punt the ball. Wow, he has trouble with the stat and the ball is free. It's picked up by Michigan State.

[00:17:11] Yes, it was. Yes. We should add to the list. If the, if the call by the announcer who's calling the game, his voice crashed, his voice inflections and like a, is memorable, then that makes the agony that much worse.

[00:17:24] And one of the things I remember about that game at that moment, I was watching it, I think here. My son was on a U3 treat in northern Michigan and he was gathered around his phone with a bunch of his high school friends.

[00:17:38] And they were had really spotty cell reception, but he was trying to watch it on YouTube TV, you know, through the app. And it kept kind of staggering freezing up on him. And so it was time for Michigan to punt and they just kind of lost the signal.

[00:17:52] And then he told me later that, and I said, well, we just, we just never went back to it or it was a pun that they're going to, it's over. Because there was only a few seconds left.

[00:18:01] And it wasn't until about 30 minutes later where he kind of got signal back again, which is one of life's great mysteries because he didn't go anywhere.

[00:18:09] It just came back and he starts texting me, he's like, why am I seeing all these texts from people that are racking on me from it? And I said, oh, there was a disaster. And it, crum, I shot wasn't exactly like this.

[00:18:23] So that's number three on my list. Let's go back to the top of the batting order Scott, what's next for you in the agony of defeat Hall of Fame? Well, this one is actually kind of a strange story. This is almost 30 years ago.

[00:18:36] I had to double check the date. I'm like, oh my goodness, it hasn't really been that long. And I had just finished building a new family room in the basement of the house we were in, right?

[00:18:45] And so the TV has set up and it's like, oh, we can finally watch cubs games and have room to spread out, right? So that was there's a level of expectation. I don't know how that falls in your chart, Paul, in your algorithm.

[00:18:57] But it was watching this game finally on my TV in the family room. And that year the cubs were a 500 team. You know, it was a meaningless game at the end of the season, but they're playing the Cardinals.

[00:19:07] And the Cardinals were actually even worse than the Cubs at year. But it's the rivalry. So we get really excited about that. And the cubs jump out to a seven to nothing lead against the Cardinals. So the guy pitching was this journeyman pitcher named Frank Castillo.

[00:19:23] I played for the cubs for a couple of years. He was average, you know, not that great. Just ate up a bunch of innings. And he's winning seven to nothing. And slowly it begins to dawn every on everyone that, hey, he's got a no hit or going.

[00:19:37] He's got a no hit or going. And he's cruising. He's only like given up to walks. And it's the first no hitter. It would be the first no hitter in 23 years. Now I've been a cubs fan my whole life. I'd never seen a no hitter.

[00:19:51] The last one before that had been 1972 when they'll papus through one. And he was one strike away from that. Perfect game. A perfect game. So I'd never be held a cubs no hitter with my own eyes. And suddenly the excitement is beginning to grow.

[00:20:07] Like this who cares about the game. He's going to throw and no hitter. And here I'm watching. And the announcers are getting into it. In fact, Steve Stone leaves the cubs broadcast booth and makes his way all the way down into the dugout.

[00:20:19] So a camera pans over and you see him in a suit and tie standing in the dugout. The whole stadium is on their feet. And we're watching this and we can barely antenna excitement. The first cardinal to come up to bat now here.

[00:20:30] We're on the top of the ninth is a guy named get this Terry Bradshaw. He's in no name minor league player for the cardinals. I had to like twice up like really Terry Bradshaw. He comes up and castio strikes him out for his 12th strikeout.

[00:20:45] Next guy up is Mark Swenney. And as he's flailing away, guess what Harry Kerry starts to do? He recounts every single cubs no hitter since 1900s. Right. He's rattling off these names from 1908 to 1920. And we're all frenetic and frenzied and it's just nuts.

[00:21:02] And then finally there's two outs. Top of the ninth left field or Bernard Giltke comes up and Castillo gets him to swing at a strikeout, strike off the zone. And then there's a foul ball and now it's two and two and then this happens. Is he bragged?

[00:21:17] He's the best. That's crazy. The steel. The ball is too strong. The pitch. A big hit and Giltke together. Oh boy, he's all for free. He's really big himself. The ride center. Samping so fast tried in the left corner to hand out the crowd gives two.

[00:21:50] Frank does see all. Well, one Frank here. Look at that. He's pulling for Sammy. They have the other strides. Sammy did everything good. Yeah, we know, Eric. Eric is awesome. So there's your moment. Yeah.

[00:22:08] And at the very end, right at the end of the clip, Eric goes, oh I'm crying too. I'm just just working. I'm crying too. But I tell you what, you know it's and whatever you think of Sammy so set, the highlight is incredible. He is like Superman.

[00:22:20] Full extension was to jump like six body lengths to try to get that ball. It was so cool to watch him give every bit of effort. And the ball rolls to the wall, like Giltke makes it triple. But it was incredible.

[00:22:32] And the air is just sucked out of the ballpark. But I got to tell you, I've never felt that bad for a single player, you know, an immunless game. But he had so much on the line. It was going so well.

[00:22:43] He was one strike away and he was so close. And that's why this is an agony of defeat for me. And unfortunately to make things worse, the sad news is that Castillo died in a boating accident in 2013. He was only 44.

[00:22:58] I know it's sort of piles of the sadness and agony on top. It was like a Paul Harvey rest of the story ending on that one. Now Kurt, you and I can take Scott's agony of losing the no hitter probably to a local

[00:23:12] degree when we bring in the names of Armando Galaraga and Jim Joyce. This is not on my list. This is just a bonus. This is thrown in no extra charge. Okay. When I saw Scott's, is sound bite, I thought, well, we're going to talk no hitters and devastating

[00:23:31] moments. It would be the one pitch from a perfect game from a journeyman pitcher who's never going to be hurt from again. And this is before replay, which is a key note as you hear this clip. Round ball, right side, Cabrera. We'll cut it off.

[00:23:54] Galbi is safe at first base. Oh, my goodness, Jim Joyce. She's really, she's really, she's really, she's really, she's really. Yeah, it was, it was out by a full step and we were at the game the next day and as it

[00:24:21] so happened, Jim Joyce, the set the model for officials who blow calls. And here's a apologizing the night before. In tears at home plate the next day, as the Tigers sent out, Galaraga to bring a lineup

[00:24:39] card and he and Jim Joyce had a moment at home plate and the kid, the pitcher handled it with more dignity and class than a lot of people would have. It didn't hurt that they also still gave him a corvette. The GM did for throwing a perfect game.

[00:24:53] But all before in story play was allowed to help and games, but that was our, that was our heartbreak moment. Kurt, you probably remember that I would think. Yeah, there's been a few of those, I think, with the Detroit teams.

[00:25:04] Unfortunately, in fact, that's my second one right now is one of the Detroit ones. We'll go back to April 10th of 2017. All right, Detroit pistons versus the Washington Wizards and it wasn't the loss itself 105 to 101.

[00:25:16] It was actually the event in this symbolic loss of that game that really hurt me the most. That was the final game of the Palace of Auburn Hills. And so it wasn't just a loss, but it was the fact that that was the last basketball game

[00:25:31] play that the Palace of Auburn Hills. Now if anybody's spending the Palace, they know it's one of the most beautiful facilities that I've been in throughout the country. It's for concerts, for different sports as well.

[00:25:42] I mean, it helps to everything from the big trucks to the big bowls to the all sorts of things in between. And so to build a stadium for $90 million for one, that's an herd of. They built that stadium for a renafer $90 million.

[00:25:56] But the agony came, I just didn't know lots of that game, but what it represented which was the last game in that building. I've said before, I'm not smart enough to be a billionaire, but why the pistons left that building to go down to Detroit and share revenue?

[00:26:12] And now having empty building is far beyond me, but I guess that's for another topic. Another another podcast is a boy. Okay, number two on my list is more recent. It turns out in the long run that justice did prevail because the Detroit Lions did not

[00:26:29] have to go to Dallas to play the Cowboys. But in that game, that was the 16th of 17 regular season games had the Lions won. They would have locked up, it turns out, number two seed and they wouldn't have had to get help.

[00:26:48] At the moment, it was incredibly exciting as the Lions in the last moment drove the length of the field to score a touchdown to draw to within one point. 99.9% of coaches in football would kick the extra point and be thankful to go to overtime,

[00:27:06] not Motor City Dan Campbell. We're going to go to the length of the field. We're going to go for two and we're going to get out of here with the win. The Lions draw up a fantastic play throwing the ball to offensive tackle Taylor Decker.

[00:27:22] And so the call is an illegal touch and 68 is there at left tackle and he's the one who ends up making the catch. And the Lions left to do it again.

[00:27:50] Well, you see Dan talk of Tom and I can't imagine them having that play in him not reporting. That's because he did. Did you have it? It's made that very clear and rarely in my lifetime.

[00:28:06] Have I seen a fan base as violently angry as we all were at referee Brad Allen because he doubled down on a later and in the long run, it could have led to a road game in the playoffs. Thankfully, the Cowboys were terrible.

[00:28:23] They lost to Green Bay and everything worked out. The Lions got to play a couple of games at home. Yeah, I was just going to say I remember Bill you and I had probably two or three maybe

[00:28:32] more conversations after that game about the possibility that the Lions are going to have to go to Dallas. And every single time I was waiting for you to be kind of over it and you never were very angry because it was correctable. Yeah.

[00:28:47] So what happened around Lion Country, somebody I don't know who purchased billboards all over the state, digital billboards. And all they said in Honolulu, blue background with white font, Decker reported. Yeah. And then the day before the NFC championship game in downtown Detroit, they had a drone show.

[00:29:09] I don't know if you've seen it but I mean they do. It's like constellations in the sky made of drones and they can change messages. They had a lion logo eating a 49er logo and they had all these different, you know grit

[00:29:23] and all these different lion related phrases in one of them was Decker Link court. How many weeks after the fact was that? So it was at the time, it was a huge, huge crushing and maddening loss because of the history of the cowboy's getting the benefit. Yeah.

[00:29:39] Redick's a little bit more. This is where, you know, this is the puzzle that I have about that. Is that with all the replay, with all the ability to contest what prevents that from being turned over?

[00:29:49] What prevents that call from being reviewed, from being turned over from somebody overwriting it. You know what I'm saying? You know, afterwards obviously every other game when that did happen, it was very obvious that he was reporting.

[00:30:02] He went right up to the rough made a big deal out of it, pointing to his number, pointing to their, you know, it's like, but during that moment, what prevented the NFL or, you

[00:30:10] know, a coach having to build, I mean, I don't know all the rules, but what prevented that from happening? One's the last time the NFL admitted an error. Oh, yeah. I think that's what it prevented. It's just pure error.

[00:30:22] Well, I think that there are plays that are not reviewable and it's like all plays that would be judgment calls on the part of the official, they try to not review those, which I think kind of actually does make sense, but this, they only want to review things

[00:30:36] that are black and white like what was just put on the line or whatever that kind of thing. But oh my gosh, the replay. That's it. It was pretty black and white. Leagues defense was it was the lion's intention to deceive the opponent and in the process

[00:30:50] of doing so they deceive the official. What are you're throwing that back at us? We've ran such a clever play. You're getting mad again. All right, Scott. What's true? Did you have another one? Scott or I know Kurt does. No, I do not.

[00:31:07] All right, Kurt, what's next on your list? This is, this is, this is what I think is a bit more personal for Kurt. This is, this is the ultimate agony for me. You know, we can talk about other teams. We can talk about other sports.

[00:31:17] We can talk about, you know, other people's things that happen, but when it happens to yourself, that's the ultimate agony. And so on March 4th of 1985, my senior year in college, we were ranked eighth in a nation. 25 and three record at that point, 16 and two in the conference.

[00:31:36] We obviously qualified for postseason. We're in the first game of the postseason, just flying, just absolutely hitting all cylinders. This is, yes, you mentioned basketball by the way. This is a second of L.E. State University, Men's Basketball.

[00:31:51] And we were playing a team that we beat by, I don't know, 20 points or whatever it was or we're going to season. So we're looking way, way, way, way, way, a brilliant man. We're eighth in a nation. We're hitting all cylinders.

[00:32:00] One of the conference, you know, we're looking well, well deep into the national tournament. We lost 63 to 61 to a team that we beat, handily earlier that season. And I got to tell you fellas, there wasn't a dry-ion locker room.

[00:32:19] To this day, to this day when I see my teammates, it comes up and it's the pain. It's what were we thinking. How do we let that happen? And how did we, you know, lose such a position where we could have been even further?

[00:32:33] And so that's my agony. It's a personal agony. And it still hurts to stay. How well do you recall the key moments of that game all these years later? I've blocked it out. So, unfortunately for me, I played some games since then.

[00:32:49] And so quite a few games since then. And so, you know, as I tell people, the more games you play, the less your member gets for other games, like I have people come up to me from high school that they say, oh man,

[00:32:59] I remember this game in high school when you did this and didn't, I'm like, great because I don't remember that. So, yeah, it's just a, you know, the great thing about sports, it's the thrill of victory

[00:33:10] and just like the opening out there, opening takes says and at ABC, well, we'll just sports the agony to feet because there is going to be agony and there's going to be the feet but there's also a thrill of victory.

[00:33:21] I was texting a couple friends of mine telling them about this topic tonight and I asked my buddy Craig for his list and his list had on it the same number one that mine has

[00:33:32] on it and same thing happened with a couple of others that have a long term history with Detroit teams and the top of my list takes us back to March 26th, 1987. This is the building block stages of the bad boy pistons. They haven't won anything yet.

[00:33:54] They are figuring out who they are, what the right mix is going to be for that team and we knew a couple things. Number one, we knew and we still know this. We detest the Boston Celtics. Detest.

[00:34:11] If I had my buddy Pastor Nate Murray on from Hope Fails, Bay City Campus, he would not like to hear that. He's a Celtic fan and somehow he got hired even with that knowledge. I don't know how that happened. They are the evil empire.

[00:34:26] They got every call in the garden, every call. This cursey, Hugh Hollins, these officials were they had Celtic blood and we had to listen to Tommy Heinzon do the color commentary not only during Celtic highlights but

[00:34:39] then he would work for CBS and call the games and it was awful. It was awful. We finally had him beat. Marks 26, 1987 we had him beat. There was Bill, I am seeing that playing over over the video in my mind right now as you

[00:34:55] say that I see the video of that play over and over again. The pistons knock the ball out of bounds off of a Celtic leg. The ball is awarded to the pistons and instead of taking their time and setting up the

[00:35:07] inbound's past knowing this is going to seal the game. There was five seconds on the clock, it was a ball game. Isaiah Herodley grabbed the ball from the official and just threw it under the Celtics basket to Bill Ambeur. Here's a disparity in the call.

[00:35:26] They're going to give them all two Detroit. Mark Stales it. Johnson, lay up Boston one second. One second. Well, it wasn't at the buzzer then if there was one second remaining but that's me nitpicking a play by play guy.

[00:35:55] I was on the phone with my buddy Joe because back then you were just on the landline phone talking to your friends. There was no other way to communicate and we were watching in our respective homes these last seconds.

[00:36:07] Play out because this was the moment where we had been building four and towards with this pistons team. I have a if you looked outside my studio on the wall over there, you'll see two front pages of the Detroit Free Press framed up.

[00:36:22] The bottom one says from Pretender to contender and this was when I and it's got lambere jumping at like an inch and a half which was peak lambere really. Yeah, fuck yeah. And these were the building block years and they went on to lose this series to

[00:36:36] the Celtics and it for for was I 18 years old just crushed. I went and drove around the metropolis of Clio Michigan for like three hours that night because you can't invent over text and so you're busted my algorithm because

[00:36:57] my algorithm would say well the pistons came back in one multiple titles and that should like help stop the bleeding but not so much. That well if we're talking about the top moment. Yeah, that's if you don't know what's going to happen after that right?

[00:37:11] You know it's hard to get. Yeah, I mean only one team finishes on a win at the end of the season. It's very tough. And we always say hey we just got to get back here next year. The pistons did but not every team does.

[00:37:22] The cubby took 13 years to get back double-done has killed the bearers for a generation at perpetuity. Yeah, for communications can overwhelm the algorithm sometimes. Yeah, exactly. You know in Kurt I think about the moment you had back in the locker room and for some

[00:37:37] of those members of the cardinal basketball team they got another crack at it next year but for many of you you didn't that was it. There was seniors down a lot of seniors and so yeah and I remember I mean I remember that play vividly with Isaiah.

[00:37:50] I didn't do was get the ball in really and even if they fouled you know you get the free throw line all the time it was get the ball in and just watching bird.

[00:37:57] I mean is here's a guy that you know by NBA standards wasn't the most athletic couldn't you know really sky as a 6 9 guy couldn't you know but he was a smart. He was very smart and obviously he was reading things. He saw the floor.

[00:38:13] You know he saw the pass and I saw that. Yeah, yeah. Stink and Larry Bird saw everything. Hey we would like to hear from you all listening what would be at the top of your list.

[00:38:27] So please reach out to us on social media, send us an email or however you want to reach us but we just love to hear maybe we'll share it on a future episode. Meanwhile let's move over into Holy discontent although I've already been blowing

[00:38:38] off some steam perhaps the others have some some pent up energy. It's time to blow off some steam get it off your chest rant about what's most bothering you I got a lot of problems with you people now you're gonna hear about it. It's time for Holy discontent.

[00:38:59] Scott, lead us off. Let me guess it might be baseball related of course it is. I would have to say that you know this time of your hey I love the hot stove season as much as anybody watching.

[00:39:14] The headlines keeping track of who gets signed where some of the trades out of nowhere like just the other day Corbin Burns is going from the burst to the Orioles that's a huge trade changes the landscape in the and I'll central but I don't understand the

[00:39:29] one agent who shall go unnamed Mr. Boris who seems to be a bartender but he name is Boris not very pastoral. Well you know you know I wish MLB would put a deadline.

[00:39:45] I wish they would have a deadline for when free agents need to sign by there's a trading deadline other sports of other deadlines I think it's good for the sport because it creates an interest to sense of urgency you can count down to that deadline but I mean

[00:39:58] nobody wants to see the siongle word winner from last year Blake's now still on side or Cody Belinger and I'll come back play the year. Unside or Montgomery you know pitcher of the world series winning Rangers not

[00:40:12] signed and to have that drag into spring training I think doesn't help the game because by that time everybody's getting ready for baseball they're watching their teams are excited about who's going to make what are the roster battles so I think it's nuts to

[00:40:25] continue to just draw this thing out you're just waiting around you know the same journalists in the broadcasters are saying the same things about this is going to happen and it's not going to happen bloody bloody blah just put in a deadline give us something to shoot

[00:40:38] force so we can all move on. Here we go touch clock you can't ask for everything at baseball I want a trade clock for agent clock I mean it's good. Kurt what's what's your holy discontent?

[00:40:49] Yeah I actually have two I'm sorry that it's you know be selfish but I have two one is six and forty one right I mean I say no I mean our Detroit pistons are six and forty one right now and

[00:41:00] I don't want to say anything more than that the other is something called N.I.L. N.I.L. is something that's been introduced and to me it's like the Wild Wild West right now

[00:41:11] and I'm not against it I'm just saying somebody somehow needs to figure this thing out because it's like the Wild Wild West you know this name image unlike this in college sports now where somebody could make $5,000 they can make $800,000 they can make a million dollars and some do

[00:41:28] and it's just a disparity of it the lack of policy the lack of I guess clarity of what it is and who can do what that's my holy discontent. That's fair we've done N.I.L. episodes and we've barely scratched the surface because it keeps changing

[00:41:44] the gold pressure. Yeah keep moving to ask 10. Wild Wild West it's like the Wild Wild West right now I think who's going to win? My holy discontent's going to take a couple of you by surprise because it centers around James Harbaugh. Oh really?

[00:41:58] Yeah I mean I hear I'm surprised I mean I've got in other parts of my studio I've got national championship gear posted I got stuff still in the mail because fanatics can't deliver anything within a two month window. I got no asker is hanging on the wall.

[00:42:10] I got no asker is just around here I got exclamation points I get all that good stuff going on and my coach I'm not I'm not even discontented that he left to go to San Diego yeah stop reading the cupboard back in Ann Arbor.

[00:42:24] Yeah don't take mentor in Herbert with you it's I understand your it is press conference his welcome press conference for the chargers he began talking about how he really views the chargers and the Wolverines as one family. Yeah I saw that.

[00:42:42] Well that just make any sense because you're taking cousin Jesse and cousin Herbert with you to the west coast yeah and the family back in Ann Arbor now is going to scramble to help out cousin charone as he takes over I just wish that that had not happened.

[00:42:59] Picture Harbaugh Christmas morning Tone Alls kids hey we're one fam we're one just one big family so that's my holy discontent what's yours I'm gonna yield my time because I am

[00:43:11] I'm like a floor of the center pose I have a new segment to propose for the show so I'm just gonna hold that until you come back right. This is that time all right so here's what I've been

[00:43:20] thinking we've never had a holy discontent yielding slash proposal to I'm just I can't use maybe my own you want a new segment that's your holy discontent. That is my holy discontent

[00:43:30] I sponsor for not that I'm bored with what we've been doing but I was super guy I don't job but never know what he's going to do. I was sitting on the airplane today browsing through my

[00:43:43] ex feed or Twitter feed or whatever waiting for the plane to take off and I was going to lose signal and everything else and I came across a string of headlines none of which I had time to like

[00:43:56] explore but they all caught my attention and so I thought you know what we should do. On this show from week every week we should come we should find two or three different headlines

[00:44:07] that are worth exploring we're gonna call this the rabbit hole so what I'm going to do if you're up for it though if I have your permission is every week I'll come in with three headlines from

[00:44:17] the world of sports and then everybody else who's in the conversation can tell me which one of those is worth going down the rabbit hole and we can either do that the next episode or something like

[00:44:27] that so here's a three that I found this morning and I was also thinking these are this is like what guys do in church right like you're sitting in church in the offering moment comes up

[00:44:37] and you want to lie around Twitter yeah and you want to browse your headlines but you want to do it during the sermon because that would be somehow too much so you had you know you have like

[00:44:46] four minutes and trust me I've done the offering moment enough times in my career to know that nobody is listening that many people in church are not looking at their phones so they can

[00:44:55] give online I know I know these things so here's my three the first one was that the big 10 and the SEC have formed an advisory committee made up of presidents chancellor's athletic directors

[00:45:07] quote in order to find solutions to the problems in college sports let's talk about how that's gonna go for schools like Oklahoma State and Boston College and everything else so that's the first the second headline is the Alabama University Alabama baseball coach do you see this getting fired

[00:45:24] for betting on his own games he got a 15 year show cause so if he ever gets back into coaching anywhere he has he's suspended for five seasons he's done he's done I see something also

[00:45:36] Paul we're any team that he's coach in the past there's a percentage of their games that have to be for three years old crazy something in there as well yeah you're probably right but like I said

[00:45:47] I didn't go down the rabbit hole I just saw the headline and I'm like oh my word and then the third one was the PGA tour forming a partnership deal with strategic with ace and entity called the

[00:45:59] Strategic Sports Group which apparently is made up of owners and and Muckity Mucks with big bucks $3 billion initial investment I would have thought that headline would have been about a partnership with live golf but no so those are three things I haven't done any like dig in

[00:46:17] I didn't have time to this morning so I just would love you guys to tell me which one of those you think is worth going down the rabbit hole the first one I can summarize in one sentence okay the big 10 and the SEC

[00:46:30] exploratory committees are coming together for one reason to figure out how to break free from both the NCAA and the current television contracts to form their own league well yes yeah absolutely

[00:46:43] there's going to be more of that story and the live golf thing another one sentence some way for me and then you guys can chime in the live golf thing is pretty simple professional men's golf is being so dramatically overvalued for what it actually delivers those venture capitalists

[00:46:59] are going to look back and say we read the what they're these readings yeah so what do you guys think I'm interested in the football one that just sounds so fascinating because it's so wonky

[00:47:11] and you know there's a lot more entertainment I think in there to to go down there's a lot more holes for that rabbit to escape down yeah I don't even know what a chancellor is or does at a

[00:47:21] so there's that third charge they're in charge of whatever yeah and Paul to me when you see the disparity that's happening in West Coast conferences where they're left with one or two teams now

[00:47:32] or suddenly a conference disbanded basically right and you see and hear about this kind of stuff with the big 10 and S I mean it's like you know it's follow the money right that's what's happening

[00:47:42] right now the money is going to be the driving force behind this and you know they talk about amateur sports I mentioned N.A. earlier you're talking about this and we're talking about these contracts

[00:47:53] at TV contracts and you know just follow the money that's where this is going to end up going there's no question in my mind okay I think that's the rabbit hole we're going to go down in a future episode unless

[00:48:03] somebody one of our listeners wants to reach out and tell us why they think it's new now I got to find a bug's bunny sound bite to lead into the rabbit hole you're going to have to make a whole new

[00:48:12] more production to do let's move over to our that guy moment and we're just going to turn that one over to Scott he's got a pretty fun one right now this minute today this week I am the man

[00:48:28] Scott who do you like for that guy yeah it was it's been like I said it's the hot stove season for baseball and I cannot think of a time when I've seen a player announces arrival into a brand new

[00:48:41] city in such a dramatic way so the cubs signed showed up eminaga uh Japanese player who pitched in the world baseball classic a top-not pitcher top-notch pitcher and his introductory press conference I thought he nailed it hey scaggle thank you what do you think kava's gonna win today

[00:49:11] he just quoted the famous gocub's go song and you know his is English he learned it and there's a really cool article I think on the athletic that talks about how he chose to do it that way and I just thought

[00:49:23] that's the smartest way I've ever seen anybody else themselves to a new market that just in deer himself perpetually so that was a great job thanks mile out of space and you could tell he had

[00:49:34] worked at it because that didn't come naturally to it that's really good all right let's wrap it up with our three minute message homer I'd like you to remember Matthew 7 26 the foolish man who built his house on sound

[00:49:50] and you remember Matthew 21 17 and he left them and went out of the city into Bethany and he logged there yeah think about it think about it okay I feel like there's only one way we should end this conversation today

[00:50:09] I'm cognizant of the fact that Bill you throw out this topic that we're all going to talk about the agony of defeat and it's not difficult for all of us as sports fans to think about times when we're

[00:50:19] just crushed crushed broken and driving around trying to figure out what we're going to do and everything else and I wonder if you know go on beyond just saying hey sports fans get over it or you're going

[00:50:35] to it's going to be okay kind of thing what about in life when circumstances are not what you would want them to be and you find yourself in that same place well the great news for us as Jesus

[00:50:49] followers is that we can be assured of a couple of things number one we that Jesus is not unaware of the circumstances who are going on in our life it's not like he's not paying attention

[00:51:01] caught off guard right or or ambivalent or whatever but we also know that he plays chess not checkers and we know that he's a loving father and so we need to end the conversation today with Romans 8 28

[00:51:17] and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him who have been called according to his purpose might take 13 years to figure that out whatever the circumstances in your life

[00:51:30] but because of who God is and because we know the love that he has for us as followers of him we can know that it's all going to work out for the good whatever is going on in our lives and so I just want

[00:51:44] leave that bit of truth with us and encourage all of us to take it with us into our week and into the next time when we're we're feeling like things are falling apart.

[00:51:53] Yeah well said good stuff Scott Kurt thanks so much for for chiming it it's going to see you guys again Scott baseball's coming spring training about spring training about three weeks away

[00:52:06] I'll be down and and Florida soon for the Tigers golf outing which is the sureest sign of spring Kurt's going to see you as well my friend thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me great to see

[00:52:15] everybody again we would love to have you all check us out on our social channels on Facebook and Twitter or X which ever you want to call it and online at churchpuseports.com please share the link

[00:52:26] to the podcast with some other sports fans and maybe some folks who could just use a good laugh we'll talk to you again next week with church Pew sports