Flag Planting: Fair or Foul? Is Sportsmanship Dead?

[00:00:00] I gotta tell you, it's one of the most inexplicable, just jaw-dropping results I remember seeing in college football in a long time. Very rarely am I just outright stunned by a result. There was no way I could have seen this coming. Just no way.

[00:00:15] The following is a presentation of Hobson Media.

[00:00:19] Woohoo!

[00:00:21] We've got it better than us!

[00:00:28] This is the Church Pew Sports Podcast, featuring a group of pastors delivering bombastic takes on sports, life and faith.

[00:00:36] We're going to attack this day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind.

[00:00:42] Take a knee.

[00:00:42] Man, it's hard to break us now. It's hard to break us. As a matter of fact, you ain't gonna do it.

[00:00:47] Lend an ear.

[00:00:48] These are some of the best questions I've had, I have to tell you that straight up.

[00:00:51] As the Church Pew Sports Podcast begins.

[00:00:54] The only matter is about us. Not the lights, not the cameras, not the action. It's about the action.

[00:01:00] I don't get it.

[00:01:01] Give each other high fives!

[00:01:06] We're giving high fives everywhere around these parts these days.

[00:01:09] Hello friends and welcome into another edition of Church Pew Sports, where we connect sports to life and faith.

[00:01:15] And it is so good to have you all with us here as we celebrate, at least in Maize and Blue Country, a tremendous breakthrough and just one of those remarkable moments in sports history.

[00:01:27] Probably not quite as popular for some of our other friends.

[00:01:30] Bill Hobson here. Normally on this podcast, I am joined by Paul Miller.

[00:01:35] I promise you it's legitimate.

[00:01:36] He is just down sick and he would otherwise be here even in his role as a Buckeye fan.

[00:01:41] But it's good to have all of you with us.

[00:01:43] Thank you for subscribing and for being part of the Church Pew Sports family.

[00:01:47] Let me welcome in our guest. First of all, senior pastor from Hope Veil Church, Josh Pardee is in studio with me and...

[00:01:54] Go Blue!

[00:01:55] Go Blue! We'll get into that here in a few moments.

[00:01:58] Randy Gilmer, who is a longtime friend and is out there in the state of Nevada where he serves in a really important capacity in the government.

[00:02:05] But right now, he's coming in as a Lions and Wolverines fan.

[00:02:08] And then, we go to, you know, in the world, Josh, of connecting sports to life and faith.

[00:02:17] Really, the OG program in all of this space is Sports Spectrum.

[00:02:23] And on a few different occasions, we have been blessed with the presence of Jason Romano,

[00:02:27] who has been leading that team for, I don't know how long, Jason, but forever, right?

[00:02:33] Seven and a half years, but it feels like forever.

[00:02:35] Yeah, you guys do such a great job there.

[00:02:37] Thank you for being with us tonight.

[00:02:38] And right at the front of the program, we're going to have a little bit of fun.

[00:02:42] And we'll also get serious in talking about just some of the strange things that have been...

[00:02:47] Well, that have happened and that have been said ever since this moment.

[00:02:53] Do or die for Ohio State.

[00:02:55] Howard in trouble!

[00:02:58] Incomplete!

[00:02:59] Ohio State turns it over on Doubt!

[00:03:02] And the Michigan Wolverines will shock the college football world!

[00:03:09] Understated as usual, Gus Johnson.

[00:03:11] We'll get into some more of Gus here in the moments ahead.

[00:03:14] But I want to back everybody up now to Saturday afternoon.

[00:03:18] As that game's progressing, Randy Gilmer, what was unfolding in your world?

[00:03:24] So I was actually watching the...

[00:03:27] Watching that game with my mother who unfortunately broke her leg.

[00:03:31] Oh, my goodness.

[00:03:32] She was in a rehab facility because she...

[00:03:33] So I went over there and I'm like, well, I don't have much faith or hope today.

[00:03:38] So it'll be nice to be with mom.

[00:03:40] She can console me and keep my emotions in check if she leaves.

[00:03:43] So, needless to say, I was very, very happy that my mom was able to see me be very, very excited.

[00:03:52] We're sitting here now Monday, you know, 730 time, Eastern time.

[00:03:59] And I'm still kind of just numb.

[00:04:03] I'm like, did I really witness that?

[00:04:05] Did that really happen?

[00:04:06] It's still...

[00:04:07] I mean, it's amazing and great.

[00:04:10] And I still have a job, which is always questionable after these games because my boss is a Ohio State fan.

[00:04:17] Oh, my.

[00:04:19] So I was fully anticipating getting some sort of text from him.

[00:04:25] But...

[00:04:25] Did your key card work when you went back in?

[00:04:28] It did, thankfully, yes.

[00:04:30] That's a good sign.

[00:04:30] So, but just amazing.

[00:04:33] I mean, I think I was seeing some...

[00:04:36] I think it was John Bacon that posted on X and he was going to confirm it.

[00:04:40] But he thinks that it is the biggest upset by point spread in the history of the game.

[00:04:46] I mean, I'm not sure they had point spreads in 1969.

[00:04:49] But obviously, that would be the only thing that could be comparable to what we witnessed on Saturday as far as an upset perspective.

[00:04:56] So, I'm very interested to get Jason's perspective on this as a guy, I believe, with no direct affiliation to either team.

[00:05:05] But first, Josh Pardee, not only is a big Michigan fan, guys, but he tried and successfully pulled off the impossible.

[00:05:16] Right?

[00:05:17] So, on Saturday morning, he texts me and says, listen, I'm not gonna be able to watch the game live.

[00:05:22] So, I gotta opt out of any texts because we're gonna go media blackout, right?

[00:05:28] With you and two boys who are bleeding maize and blue and a house full of company.

[00:05:34] Yeah, my brother and his wife and their kids and a couple grandmas and an uncle and all that sort of stuff.

[00:05:40] How did you pull it off?

[00:05:41] How did it happen that nobody anywhere that you went shouted out something about go blue?

[00:05:46] I can't believe it.

[00:05:46] Well, we had Christmas, Thanksgiving weekend.

[00:05:50] So, we had tree farm that we had to go to earlier in the day.

[00:05:53] So, but we were...

[00:05:54] It's a Hallmark movie?

[00:05:55] Yeah, pretty much.

[00:05:55] Pretty much.

[00:05:56] That's my life.

[00:05:57] A Hallmark movie.

[00:05:58] That's what I'm shooting for.

[00:06:02] We...

[00:06:03] But we...

[00:06:03] But we...

[00:06:03] But we...

[00:06:04] That's right.

[00:06:05] That's right.

[00:06:07] We, we were probably back, I mean, game kicked off at 12.

[00:06:10] We were probably back home by close to one.

[00:06:14] Oh.

[00:06:14] So, you know, most of the people there at the tree farm are there to be there at the tree farm.

[00:06:19] Yeah.

[00:06:19] So, we, we, we got home and then it was, we were just, you know, getting the kids lunch and getting everything ready and all that sort of stuff.

[00:06:26] So, I don't, I don't think we started watching until probably about 2.30 or something like that.

[00:06:30] And then kind of in real time, but you got to zoom through commercials.

[00:06:32] And my phone was, yeah, we watched it very quickly.

[00:06:35] It was annoying my sister-in-law a little bit.

[00:06:37] But I was like...

[00:06:38] Fast forwarding?

[00:06:38] Yeah.

[00:06:38] But I'm, what are we gonna do?

[00:06:40] Sit here and listen to Gus repeat himself over and over again?

[00:06:43] So, you know, let's, let's get moving.

[00:06:46] So...

[00:06:46] And so...

[00:06:47] And phone, phone was off.

[00:06:48] I mean, I texted everyone.

[00:06:49] Yeah.

[00:06:56] One, one person who I haven't talked to in two years.

[00:06:58] Right.

[00:06:59] Yeah.

[00:06:59] Exactly.

[00:07:00] All right.

[00:07:00] So, Jason, the view from afar, what does that look like from your end?

[00:07:05] Uh, big college football fan, don't have a specific team, but I will show you the one who led me to Jesus.

[00:07:12] That is my brother for those that are watching or at least you guys that can see that.

[00:07:16] This is my brother, Dr. Christopher Romano.

[00:07:19] Um, he led me to Jesus, uh, Mother's Day, 2001.

[00:07:23] He has bled maize and blue since the mid nineties.

[00:07:27] Um, I'm not quite sure why, cause we grew up in, you know, a little town outside of Albany, New York, but he picked his teams and Michigan's been his team since.

[00:07:36] So I, I hear a lot from my brother and my two nephews, his two boys about Michigan enough to, to know even more about them maybe than I normally would.

[00:07:46] Um, but I saw them Friday.

[00:07:49] So I'm with my brother, uh, and my nephew, well, one of my nephews on Friday and we're talking, you know, we're with my family, we're talking football.

[00:07:57] And the, the talk was can Michigan lose by less than 17 points?

[00:08:05] And so we're talking about the game and I'm like, well, Ohio state, what do you think?

[00:08:08] Chris?

[00:08:09] Like 45, 21.

[00:08:12] He goes, I don't know if Michigan can score 21 points.

[00:08:14] He was right by the way.

[00:08:16] Right.

[00:08:16] But, um, I said, all right, maybe what?

[00:08:18] 30, 44, 17.

[00:08:21] He goes, probably that's what we're looking at.

[00:08:23] I just hope they have a good run.

[00:08:25] Um, there was not even a, an ounce of optimism that the upset could be pulled off, which I'd be curious from all you guys as Michigan fans to know,

[00:08:33] was there even a sense like a, a, a, a little bit of hope because I, from what I gathered, nobody saw this coming, especially with the game was, was in the horseshoe.

[00:08:45] Um, so from an outsider perspective, I was just excited.

[00:08:48] You know, we covered Ohio state quite a bit this year from, from a sports spectrum perspective, because there's been so many guys on their team that have been so outspoken about their faith.

[00:08:56] Um, but again, Michigan bleeding in my family a little bit with that maize and blue.

[00:09:02] I don't know.

[00:09:02] I was just interested in watching.

[00:09:04] I mean, Saturday was just such a great day because my daughter was home from, from college and her and my wife were just kind of doing some things.

[00:09:11] We're putting up some Christmas ornaments and decorations and I have college football on all day.

[00:09:16] And it was great.

[00:09:17] And that game with Gus, particularly the moment when, uh, the, that pick was thrown by Michigan's quarterback and Gus just about had the biggest fit I've ever heard on air.

[00:09:29] I thought he was going to have a heart attack right then.

[00:09:31] And then I thought, Oh, this is where this is going.

[00:09:34] Yeah.

[00:09:34] Like Ohio state's going to win this game, but not by a lot because Michigan's offense was just horrendous.

[00:09:41] It wouldn't matter because they dominated that game.

[00:09:44] If you really look at it, the score was what three points, but they dominated that game.

[00:09:48] If they had any semblance of offense, they probably win it by two or three touchdowns.

[00:09:52] So lots of fun to watch.

[00:09:54] Um, yeah, I like upsets if I'm being completely honest, not when it happens to my team, of course, but.

[00:10:01] I like to watch upsets.

[00:10:02] And that was, that was one of the best I've seen in a while.

[00:10:05] My, uh, my son was here with his wife, daughter and her husband and our grandson were here.

[00:10:09] The three of them have no interest in sports whatsoever, but they were very kind and they watched it with us.

[00:10:15] My son is a, um, ardent fan and he's standing, he is jumping, he's running around the room.

[00:10:21] Yeah.

[00:10:22] Um, stuff that he didn't do growing up and now he does.

[00:10:25] And as Michigan was driving for that touchdown that, that didn't happen.

[00:10:31] The air was sucked out of the room as if somebody had taken a vacuum sealer to it.

[00:10:36] And, and then, you know, when Gus goes and goes all Bobby Brady with voices changing, uh, it was, it was a tough moment.

[00:10:46] Warren looking at the goal line.

[00:10:51] Unbelievable.

[00:10:52] What is that?

[00:10:54] What is that?

[00:10:55] Jack Sawyer!

[00:10:57] The hero!

[00:11:00] Captain Jack!

[00:11:02] The hero, Captain Jack, voice up at least two octaves.

[00:11:06] And at that moment, Josh, there was, there was no joy in Mudville.

[00:11:11] No, no.

[00:11:12] I mean, yeah, I think to Jason's point, it was like at that moment, it was like, oh, well, there was our one chance that we had.

[00:11:18] And yet, somehow, Chip Kelly, the very well compensated new offensive coordinator for the Buckeyes, who right before the half called the right place, which was just, hey, let's just pass everywhere and they won't be able to stop us, which was correct.

[00:11:35] Didn't do it again the rest of the game.

[00:11:38] All right.

[00:11:39] I have a theory about this.

[00:11:40] I would like to hear this theory.

[00:11:41] Okay.

[00:11:42] So I've, I mean, that's been part of the post game talk, but then I was like, man, I feel like they were trying to throw it several times and didn't.

[00:11:49] So the, the stats are Howard throws the ball 33 times.

[00:11:54] Really?

[00:11:54] And Judkins and Henderson only combined have 22 carries, which does not feel like that high.

[00:12:01] I mean, I agree to some, it seems like they would have thrown it a little bit more.

[00:12:04] Yeah.

[00:12:04] It also seems like if they were going to run, they wouldn't run right into our defensive tackles, the only strength on our team.

[00:12:10] But I also think Howard was just shook as well.

[00:12:13] I mean, it's not like he was playing well.

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:16] But there were a couple of moments where they had some big moments.

[00:12:19] Um, was it right after that turnover, they, well, a second, like a second eight or something and throws it to the receiver and hits them right in the hands and then just drops it.

[00:12:28] You know?

[00:12:29] I mean, they were just like, they did, they didn't make any of the plays at the moment they needed to.

[00:12:32] So rather than recap every play in the game, let's go to post game because of the theme and the title of our episode today is planting the flag fair or foul.

[00:12:42] And we should point out that all around the country, there were flags being planted and there were some fights breaking out.

[00:12:51] And, um, I'm not going to sit here and defend the idea or the concept of doing something like that.

[00:12:58] I'm also not naive enough to claim that this was the first time that's ever happened in the history of the game.

[00:13:03] And so nobody knew how to react.

[00:13:05] Jason, you cover sports a lot.

[00:13:07] You're in attendance at a lot of big games.

[00:13:10] Where do you fall on this whole issue of maybe not in this game in specific yet?

[00:13:15] We'll get to this, but just on the concept of staking your claim to the territory you've just conquered, so to speak.

[00:13:22] Yeah, I think if you're, well, this seems to only happen when you're on the road and you win.

[00:13:30] And you're staking the claim on the 50 yard line of the opposing team.

[00:13:34] And that's where the fights break out, right?

[00:13:36] Like Ohio State's like, you are not planting that flag on the 50 yard line at the horseshoe, right?

[00:13:40] And this happened at a few other games.

[00:13:42] I think Texas had thought about it in Texas A&M and Sark was like, nope, that's not happening.

[00:13:48] And a few of these other games is where you started to see this.

[00:13:51] And I don't know, I'm old school.

[00:13:54] I'm like, just get your W, move on.

[00:13:57] Do you not have to rub it in?

[00:13:59] And I'll say this, I work with a guy now on Sports Spectrum named Matt Forte.

[00:14:03] You guys might remember him as Lions fans with the Chicago Bears.

[00:14:07] He just joined Sports Spectrum about a month ago.

[00:14:10] And he texted me and this is exactly what he said.

[00:14:12] I'll just read it.

[00:14:13] He goes, bro, what's up with these college teams and doing the flag planting in the middle of the field after win at a rival stadium instead of just hoisting the rivalry trophy and singing the alma mater.

[00:14:24] He goes, it's disrespectful and it's immature.

[00:14:27] This is a, this is a former NFL guy, pro bowler who's saying that.

[00:14:31] So I kind of go along with what he says, because he's a guy that's not that far removed from playing professionally.

[00:14:38] And even in college, you know, less than 20 years ago, he's like, just sing the alma mater.

[00:14:44] That's, that's enough to rub it in, right?

[00:14:45] Like if you're singing the alma mater in, you know, like imagine the Michigan fans and a few of the players just standing there on the field singing the alma mater, man, that's going to get, that's going to stink for Ohio State fans and the players to even see that.

[00:15:00] But to go and like, try to plant a flag, I just think it's too much.

[00:15:03] Like it's not necessary.

[00:15:04] You know what the response is going to be.

[00:15:06] So why, why further that?

[00:15:09] And I did like the video that I saw of a few Michigan guys at Ohio State guys, like while the bickering is going on, they were on the, on the field praying.

[00:15:18] Yeah.

[00:15:19] Like, meet me at the 50.

[00:15:20] Yeah.

[00:15:21] Yeah.

[00:15:21] I love that.

[00:15:22] So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm probably old school in that remark where I just think it's not necessary.

[00:15:27] Is Randy is planting the flag for the road team, the equivalent of storming the field for the home team.

[00:15:35] It's an interesting question.

[00:15:36] No, I mean, obviously cause storming the field for the home team.

[00:15:40] I still don't think you're going to have that in your face, uh, guttural response from the people who are upset that you won.

[00:15:46] Obviously everybody's there to celebrate it.

[00:15:48] And if the visitors are at the home field, they gotta be there for it on the, whether or not to plant the flag, kind of like Jason, I'm old school.

[00:15:57] And I don't think it's something I would do, but I also understand I'm old school and I don't want to be that get off my lawn guy.

[00:16:04] And I understand that this is the way it's done now.

[00:16:07] And I mean, this started with Baker Mayfield.

[00:16:09] So that's not super long ago, but it's almost that it's probably about a decade or close to it at this point where he did it.

[00:16:16] It's been done many times since then.

[00:16:19] Um, Jason, I think you give Buckeye fans more credit than I do.

[00:16:23] I think first off, we don't have a trophy for that game because winning is all we need.

[00:16:27] So there is no trophy to hang out for that game.

[00:16:29] But I think that if we sing the alma mater at the middle of the field, they're going to do the same.

[00:16:33] They're going to react the same way we did with the flag, um, because they're going to hear the M, you know, the letter M and they cross out M everywhere in Columbus.

[00:16:41] So we're probably violating some city ordinance by singing the fights.

[00:16:45] Sounds like a lawyer who has studied the city ordinance.

[00:16:48] I don't necessarily think that they would have reacted any differently if they hadn't, if they had just sat at the 50 and saying, um, you know, text it to Michigan.

[00:16:58] Yes.

[00:16:58] Obviously the rivalry is not the same, but Texas put their flag on the 50 when they beat Michigan this year.

[00:17:04] No response.

[00:17:06] Apparently Oregon did as well.

[00:17:08] Um, I wasn't, I don't recall this, but I was talking to a mutual friend of Bill and I, a couple, uh,

[00:17:15] on Sunday and he recalls that Ohio state did it at Michigan stadium at a game.

[00:17:21] He was at, so, um, like I said, I don't like it, but that's just the old school in me.

[00:17:26] I think the reaction from Ohio state was ridiculous.

[00:17:29] I mean, they ran, Michigan did wait until they were off the 50.

[00:17:33] It's not like they went to do it in front of every while they were standing at the 50, they were over by the student alumni singing their song,

[00:17:41] trying to at least do it at a time when they weren't around.

[00:17:44] And then they ran 50 yards to start the fight.

[00:17:48] Um,

[00:17:49] I was there a flag planting moment two years ago when Michigan won.

[00:17:53] They, yes, they did.

[00:17:54] They did plant the flag two years ago because they actually asked Harbaugh if he liked it or not,

[00:18:00] or what his thoughts were.

[00:18:02] And he said, I want to get the flag bag flag back so I can put it in the Michigan museum.

[00:18:07] So it did absolutely happen to you.

[00:18:09] There you go.

[00:18:10] Um, so it's not the first time it's happened.

[00:18:13] And, and the linebacker for, you know, Ohio state even said that they're not going to put the flag again.

[00:18:19] I was, I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about Ryan day later on.

[00:18:24] I was actually more perplexed with the fact that this leader of men sat there and just stared at the fight and didn't do anything and ask somebody what happened.

[00:18:35] Whereas, you know, Sharon Moore and Ohio state's athletic director, uh, get to give him credit.

[00:18:41] We're in there trying to break up the fight and do what you would expect leaders to do in that situation.

[00:18:46] Whereas Ryan day just stood there, like, you know, kind of like Matt Eberflus, I guess.

[00:18:52] Um, but in a different context.

[00:18:54] And I want to be, uh, very respectful and very careful when I say this to our law enforcement officers, because in every respect, I have respect for them.

[00:19:04] I don't know how this moment called for pepper spray.

[00:19:08] That, that part confuses me just a little bit.

[00:19:10] There was, was not imminent danger.

[00:19:13] This was big boys not getting along, but I don't know.

[00:19:18] Does anybody, am I wrong?

[00:19:19] Am I missing something here?

[00:19:20] Does that just seem like a bridge too far in that moment?

[00:19:23] It looked like there was some panic that set in.

[00:19:24] Totally.

[00:19:25] Yeah, totally.

[00:19:26] It looked at like it was, it went too far.

[00:19:28] I think it was just, it was unnecessary.

[00:19:30] I mean, come on.

[00:19:31] What are we doing here?

[00:19:32] Like pepper spray?

[00:19:34] Like we can break it up without having to break up pepper spray.

[00:19:36] These are, these are football players.

[00:19:38] It's okay.

[00:19:38] So in the party household, there are two energetic young athletes play flag football, play basketball, love their lions, love their Wolverines.

[00:19:49] And as you're watching all of this, I don't know if both grandmas are in the room at the same time or not.

[00:19:54] What's the conversation that dad has with his young boys?

[00:19:59] Cause I know that you frequently use circumstances in games as teaching moments.

[00:20:03] What did you do with this one?

[00:20:04] At the end you're talking about?

[00:20:06] Yeah.

[00:20:06] Yeah.

[00:20:07] It was helpful that they, Fox stayed zoomed in on it, which I thought was an interesting choice by them.

[00:20:13] Well, Gus had to get all those commentary in.

[00:20:15] The hovering, but it was like, it's like a fight in hockey, right?

[00:20:18] Like everyone wants to keep watching.

[00:20:20] Right.

[00:20:20] And they knew that and it kept eyeballs engaged.

[00:20:23] Yeah.

[00:20:23] It was great teaching moment.

[00:20:24] Cause I was able to say, all right, this is, this is silly.

[00:20:27] This is pointless.

[00:20:28] You know, if you lose, you need to be able to move on.

[00:20:30] And if you win, you can win and be a good sport about it and, you know, get to point to people who are praying on the sidelines or, you know, kind of in the middle of it all rather than fighting.

[00:20:40] And, you know, we do our, we do our fighting during the game, not after the game and all that sort of stuff.

[00:20:46] Yeah.

[00:20:46] Both teams, both schools find $100,000, which I think is the cost of about a case of bottled water at a game these days.

[00:20:54] So, Jason, if you're Big Ten commissioner, Tony Petitti, are you doing anything differently than what he did in the aftermath of this?

[00:21:02] Hmm.

[00:21:03] I don't think so.

[00:21:04] I think he, I think he probably didn't want to do anything, but knew he had to do something.

[00:21:08] Sounds like last year.

[00:21:09] Just kind of, yeah, pretty much.

[00:21:11] Right.

[00:21:11] Had to do something.

[00:21:13] So he did that.

[00:21:14] And I think that's probably, you know, a booster.

[00:21:17] Somebody comes and says, yep, write this up.

[00:21:19] It was worth it.

[00:21:20] And on the other side, don't ever let this happen again.

[00:21:22] And everybody's just kind of wiping their hands clean.

[00:21:25] And, you know, we'll see what happens with Ohio State.

[00:21:28] Like if Ohio State goes on and wins the national championship, which they could, they probably won't, but they could.

[00:21:35] Then none of this matters.

[00:21:36] Well, I should say, I should be careful.

[00:21:38] It always matters with Ohio State and Michigan.

[00:21:42] But winning a national title would, would put this to the, to the back burner pretty quickly for them.

[00:21:49] I'm more fascinated by Michigan.

[00:21:51] Like they won the national title last year.

[00:21:54] And I, I almost wonder if a win like they had the other day is almost on equal par with winning the national title last year, because it sure felt like it from all the people I was talking to that are Michigan fans.

[00:22:06] Uh, last year's run had some sense of expectancy to it.

[00:22:13] I mean, they had come through.

[00:22:14] We were, you and I were talking off air, Jason, about the old Celtics Pistons rivalry and how you had to get past one before you could go forward.

[00:22:21] Well, Michigan had been in the playoffs a few times and not that, not that any of us thought it was a done deal, but it was probably less shocking on a one-off basis than Saturday's win over the Buckeyes.

[00:22:34] Simply because Michigan's offense is just so terrible.

[00:22:38] Um, the regular season now completed.

[00:22:42] And at no point did Michigan have a pass play of over 40 yards all season.

[00:22:47] Incredible.

[00:22:48] There's, there's literally no, there's no way whatsoever that they win this game.

[00:22:54] There's just no logical way to it.

[00:22:55] In fact, it is in times like these that I enjoy turning to the voice of Rich Eisen.

[00:23:00] And, um, during his many segments on NFL game day morning, he shared, um, how he was grieving for his Buckeye friends.

[00:23:10] Give me about 45 seconds to share this with you all.

[00:23:12] You know, I'm not going to be airing any grievances.

[00:23:15] I'm just going to grieve for people who need the help.

[00:23:19] I grieve for those who root for the scarlet and gray.

[00:23:24] I grieve for you folks who are there in Columbus in the horseshoe four in a row.

[00:23:31] Didn't see it common.

[00:23:32] And certainly this past year when Michigan had all the house money and all you had was the NIL money, 12 million that you thought was going to be spent to make sure this didn't happen again.

[00:23:44] And it did.

[00:23:45] And I also grieve for the rivalry.

[00:23:48] Cause how is it a rivalry when one team wins four in a row?

[00:23:54] So I would like it if Ohio state got better.

[00:23:59] Oh, that's just, I think they call that trolling and it's probably a good thing that Paul Miller is out sick this week.

[00:24:06] He did send me a text cause he's like I said, he's down.

[00:24:08] He says, number, number one, congrats to you of them.

[00:24:10] They deserve it.

[00:24:11] Don't know if this salvages their season, but it was a huge win.

[00:24:14] Number two, he said, I was nervous that Ohio state would get manhandled up front with three O line starters out.

[00:24:20] Clearly Michigan out tough them.

[00:24:22] He said, number three, I was asked by a friend before the game, if I had to choose between beating Michigan or winning a natty.

[00:24:28] And I said, I would choose the natty.

[00:24:30] But after hearing about the game, I'm not as sure about my answer.

[00:24:35] Interesting because Buckeye nation, Randy is in the kind of uproar that we haven't seen from them in quite some time.

[00:24:43] It, not to compare the two, but there's almost a Ryan Day and Eberflus synergy here.

[00:24:50] That's part of the zeitgeist in big 10 country.

[00:24:55] Do you think that Ohio state is short sighted enough that they would somehow decide to let their head coach go with his amazing record that he has?

[00:25:06] I've gone back and forth on this.

[00:25:09] I don't think they'll let him go because I think with the, especially, I think they, if they thought about it in the world of NIL and as they, the $20 million payroll, and I guess it's now 20.1 because of a $100,000 fine to lose to Michigan for the fourth time.

[00:25:24] That's $38 million buyout plus $20 million.

[00:25:28] Um, and Michigan has Oracle money, not Ohio state.

[00:25:32] So I think that might just be a bridge too far for them to, um, buy them out.

[00:25:39] I do think there would be some conversations about it.

[00:25:41] I mean, I, I go back to, I mean, when Harbaugh wasn't getting it done, even though he was winning everything else.

[00:25:46] I mean, there was a lot of people that wanted to fire Harbaugh over that job game.

[00:25:50] Yeah.

[00:25:51] I do think it's, I do think it's different.

[00:25:53] I mean, in that respect.

[00:25:55] And I mean, I think I, I hopefully I'm saying this subjectively.

[00:25:58] I thought it was silly when people made those statements about Harbaugh because Harbaugh has bled maize and blue his entire life.

[00:26:05] As far as I'm concerned, he should still be the coach there, but that's for a different topic on a different day.

[00:26:10] But if Harbaugh wasn't going to win at the university of Michigan, nobody was going to win.

[00:26:14] Ryan days in a different situation than Jim Harbaugh.

[00:26:17] He didn't go to school there.

[00:26:19] He didn't grow up there.

[00:26:20] He's from New Hampshire.

[00:26:22] He came there as an assistant coach.

[00:26:24] So I, he has a lot of that John Cooper aspect element where John Cooper couldn't get it done.

[00:26:31] And people didn't think he could ever get their head around the rivalry.

[00:26:33] Now I think day gets the rivalry, but I don't know if he has enough built up, um, cache as a, as a Buckeye to be able to continue to withstand losing to Michigan all these years.

[00:26:46] His, um, his record as a big 10 coaches.

[00:26:50] And I also, it would be care.

[00:26:51] And unlike Harbaugh, who else were my thought with Harbaugh, who else are you going to get?

[00:26:56] I do think there's one potential candidate for Ohio state that would terrify me as a Wolverine, if they could convince them to go to college football.

[00:27:05] Yes.

[00:27:05] I think they have a person that would line up and if they're worried about toughness and running the ball,

[00:27:11] we're able to turn that around.

[00:27:13] So that's, that's another thing that I think is different.

[00:27:16] So, which is why I think there could be some discussion about it.

[00:27:19] Uh, before we talk about the playoff brackets, uh, one last word, uh, Jason,

[00:27:23] do you anticipate that the commissioners of all the conferences, however many are left, will just issue a ban against planting flags and it's a done, it's just done?

[00:27:32] It's a great question.

[00:27:34] It's a great question.

[00:27:34] I, I, it's very possible.

[00:27:37] I don't know if I could, I wish I could say yes or no.

[00:27:40] I mean, if I was leaning one way, I would say probably yes, because of the uproar and, um, because it, it felt like, and I actually tweeted, I don't, maybe I didn't tweet this.

[00:27:49] Maybe it was with a text thread with my brother, but it felt calculated.

[00:27:53] Like it was almost like the, the entire college football landscape said, if we win, we're planting our flag and we're don't care if we're going to do it on the other person's, you know, turf or not.

[00:28:05] And it was cause it was everywhere.

[00:28:06] And it was kind of almost like, wait, it's just, this isn't just Michigan here.

[00:28:10] This is a bunch of teams.

[00:28:11] Where do you get a flag to plant?

[00:28:14] That's true.

[00:28:14] It's what I mean, I guess it's gotta have a pointy end on it.

[00:28:17] It's gotta go into the turf.

[00:28:18] You know, you know, you'll just one in the pack, one in the carry on or someone else.

[00:28:22] Some way Ohio state had one a couple of weeks prior when they, their band use it and they like pooped on it or whatever.

[00:28:28] They already had one in the, in the stadium for us.

[00:28:31] Maybe they grabbed that one.

[00:28:32] One would make a case.

[00:28:33] Michigan marching band, apparently.

[00:28:34] Cause I saw somebody put tweet a Buckeye fan tweeted that we should, that they should ban Michigan marching band for the next game.

[00:28:41] So that there wouldn't be a flag.

[00:28:43] Wow.

[00:28:44] We couldn't get plant flags from somewhere else.

[00:28:47] One could make the case that what that band did a couple of weeks ago provided a little bit of the kerosene for this.

[00:28:54] I mean, it's just part of the, it's part of the crazy.

[00:28:56] Sure.

[00:28:56] So we have this playoff structure.

[00:28:58] As we speak, we don't know where it's going to end up.

[00:29:01] Should conference championship games, A take place and B have an impact on the final 12, Josh?

[00:29:11] Um, first one, I don't think they should exist anymore.

[00:29:15] I, I, they create problems no matter what, because you have an extra game that some teams get to play in and don't, and others don't.

[00:29:23] And so then you're naturally human reactions.

[00:29:25] You're going to judge the results of those games.

[00:29:28] So one of my buddies was like, well, the way to do this would be to set the playoffs before those games.

[00:29:36] Right. So that nothing can change.

[00:29:38] You already know the seating, but then that makes those games irrelevant.

[00:29:41] And the whole point of those games is making more money.

[00:29:43] Like it's just this, what?

[00:29:45] Yeah.

[00:29:45] It's just this weird dynamic where we have more games that we want to extract revenue, right?

[00:29:50] Grow revenue, whatever.

[00:29:52] Um, but we don't really like, if you were just starting from scratch, you would never create this system.

[00:29:56] Cause it just doesn't make sense now that you have a playoff.

[00:30:00] So I don't think there's a good solution moving forward until I know there's a lot of talk of super leagues and whatever else and, and getting rid of it.

[00:30:08] But the conference championship game just feels so clunky in football specifically.

[00:30:13] Like I think it still works in basketball because you don't have as many injuries.

[00:30:18] You can play way more games.

[00:30:20] And you can play your way into the tournament.

[00:30:21] Yeah.

[00:30:22] But even, even if you're a good team, right?

[00:30:24] Like if you're the number one team in the nation, you still want to play in that game.

[00:30:26] But like, if you're, if you're in football and you have all these extra games now and you get the, you get your seed locked in as a number one beforehand.

[00:30:35] What, why would you play?

[00:30:36] Why would you risk injury?

[00:30:38] Yeah.

[00:30:38] If you're Kirby smart, are you not going to sit half your starters?

[00:30:41] Right.

[00:30:43] What do we, what do we, Randy, what are you doing with championship games?

[00:30:46] I know you've been to a couple in Indianapolis, but it's a different world now.

[00:30:50] Actually, I've never been to the one in Indianapolis.

[00:30:53] Your wife must have those tickets.

[00:30:55] And that month that I gave them away every year.

[00:30:57] I gave them, I mean, other people bought them for me, but maybe that is in part where I feel about the conference championship.

[00:31:03] But, and I mean, that the way the conference championship for the big 10 was in those games.

[00:31:08] I mean, you know, the East versus West, it was just such a, such a, such a, such a unplaying, you know, unlevel playing field anyway.

[00:31:16] But I kind of agree with Josh that they, I don't think they should exist anymore.

[00:31:21] Um, the way they are now.

[00:31:24] I obviously, I absolutely think that if you're playing it though, that it has to be taken into consideration.

[00:31:29] You can't just ignore the eyes and you can't ignore what happened in the game.

[00:31:33] If you're deciding, um, who's going to go in the championship.

[00:31:37] And, but back to your point, Bill, I mean, it's, it's much less unlikely in the NCAA tournament, but.

[00:31:44] I mean, if SMU gets beat by Clemson, Clemson goes, Clemson is not getting in otherwise.

[00:31:49] So I don't know the answer because I think that some of the conferences might still want that.

[00:31:56] But at the same time, the conference is probably won't care enough because all they're doing is cannibalizing money from one team to the other team.

[00:32:02] The conference isn't going to be out money because if, if you're, I'll just use, you know, Oregon and Penn State are both going.

[00:32:10] So big 10 does not care who wins that game.

[00:32:12] Nothing is going to happen in that game to, to impact that.

[00:32:16] The story tradition of Oregon is a big 10 school really shining through Jason.

[00:32:22] What we do.

[00:32:22] What do you, uh, how do you hold the conference championships when it comes to the final seeding of the top 12?

[00:32:30] Yeah, I really don't.

[00:32:32] Um, I kind of agree with what you guys were saying about that.

[00:32:36] They shouldn't matter as much, but you know, first of all, the whole, the almighty dollar is going to keep those conference championships intact.

[00:32:45] I mean, there's, there's so much money involved and so much, uh, money that's been spent by the networks to have the rights to those games.

[00:32:52] But should they impact the 12 playoff?

[00:32:56] I mean, I don't think so.

[00:32:58] I mean, I will say this though, if, if Clemson goes in and wins 38 to 10, which they probably won't, but if they did, like, all right, well, Clemson should be in there.

[00:33:10] And then you can say, okay, I see the case for a conference tournament.

[00:33:13] But when you look at the whole totality of the ACC, Clemson wasn't the best team all year.

[00:33:18] Right.

[00:33:19] So like, what do you do with that?

[00:33:20] And that's where, you know, this is going to be really, somebody is going to get left out and it might be South Carolina, a team like that, that just pulled off the upset in, in Clemson.

[00:33:32] You know, some talk about Miami.

[00:33:34] I don't think they're going to get in now after that loss of Syracuse, but it's really becoming more intriguing and somebody's it's very much turning into in some ways, the college basketball selection show.

[00:33:46] Uh, it's not as many, but it's turning into that because it's always that four teams, you know, the Dick Vitale will go crazy over.

[00:33:53] They deserve to be at how can they not be in?

[00:33:55] Look at their college.

[00:33:55] Look at their RPI.

[00:33:57] And we're not there yet with college football, but we're getting there.

[00:34:01] And we might have that next weekend when we start to see these teams that go get in, get in.

[00:34:06] I don't think they should have as much implication though.

[00:34:09] And it's hard because how do you say, how do you do it completely where you say the college tournaments, we're going to have these, these conference tournament games, but they don't matter.

[00:34:18] We're not, we're not even taken into consideration.

[00:34:20] Maybe that's how it should be.

[00:34:22] We have the conference tournament games, all the money, all the lore, whatever.

[00:34:27] Hoist your trophy is whatever big 12 champions, SEC champions, but know that that has nothing to do with who the top 12 teams that are getting selected are.

[00:34:36] Then at least people could know, okay, these games really don't matter in the grand scheme, but they're bragging rights and there's something fun to watch.

[00:34:44] And there you have it.

[00:34:45] How fun would it be if they announced the final 12 in the brackets before the conference championship?

[00:34:51] You want to watch your TV ratings, take a, take a dive.

[00:34:54] Well, you want to watch guys bail out of a game too, right?

[00:34:57] Like, oh, we're just not going to play in this one and we'll, we'll get ourselves ready for the playoff.

[00:35:01] Anybody here think Oregon is unbeatable invincible, the clear far and away most dominant team in the country.

[00:35:07] I mean, they're number one, but do they?

[00:35:10] I don't know that there is a team that is unbeatable or feels usually it feels like we have, okay, there's two or three and it's just like, it feels like anybody could win it this year.

[00:35:18] I, it's wide open.

[00:35:19] Yeah, I have, uh, I have no part of my brain that can process a three loss team getting into the final 12, but it's entirely possible and likely that some SEC team will still be given a birth in there because you know, it just matters more there.

[00:35:37] I don't know if you're aware of this, but it just matters more there.

[00:35:39] One last clean up note on the game from the weekend and then we'll move on to our Holy Discontent.

[00:35:43] Actually, I'm going to kind of tie this in together.

[00:35:46] In fact, let me, let me just, let me take us into Holy Discontent.

[00:35:53] It's time to blow off some steam, get it off your chest, rant about what's most bothering you.

[00:35:59] I got a lot of problems with you people.

[00:36:01] Now you're going to hear about it.

[00:36:02] It's time for Holy Discontent.

[00:36:06] And I know we have Jason for like 10 more minutes.

[00:36:08] So we want to make sure and respect your time, Jason.

[00:36:11] Um, I'll open it up.

[00:36:12] And then if you have anything that you want to get off your chest, you feel free to chime in my, but my connects our conversation about the game into my Holy Discontent is, uh, the Gus Johnson act.

[00:36:24] Um, it's, it's grown stale on me.

[00:36:29] Um, it's, it's three and a half hours of volume 10, which I, you know, I get enthusiasm.

[00:36:36] It's all good.

[00:36:37] He's, he's beloved in a lot of circles, but for some reason on Saturday, it became Gus, not just the play by play guy, but Gus, the commentator.

[00:36:47] And he began saying some really strangely biased things that made no sense, including in the very moment where the world's largest alumni base was erupting in euphoria and shock and joy and just being stunned by what had just happened.

[00:37:06] This is how Gus, well, let me play the sound bites back to back.

[00:37:13] I played the winning moment for you a moment ago.

[00:37:14] I'm going to play it.

[00:37:16] And then how he wrapped it up.

[00:37:21] Do or die for Ohio state.

[00:37:24] Howard in trouble.

[00:37:26] The Michigan Wolverines will shock the college football world.

[00:37:37] Nothing wrong with that.

[00:37:39] Pretty cool call.

[00:37:40] Pretty epic.

[00:37:41] Michigan comes out, kneels down one time.

[00:37:43] And then he says this.

[00:37:45] Sharon says we didn't cheat this time.

[00:37:51] What?

[00:37:53] What?

[00:37:55] Sharon Moore says we didn't cheat this time.

[00:38:03] Oh, in my living room, that was not well received.

[00:38:10] To say the least.

[00:38:12] Oh, Gus.

[00:38:13] I don't understand how you go there.

[00:38:15] I don't.

[00:38:16] Is he an Ohio state fan?

[00:38:18] I don't know.

[00:38:19] He lived in Ann Arbor.

[00:38:20] He grew up in Detroit.

[00:38:21] He grew up in Detroit.

[00:38:22] Yeah.

[00:38:24] Regardless of that.

[00:38:25] I don't care if he's calling a game between USC and Florida state.

[00:38:30] How on earth do you.

[00:38:33] Jason, you're a professional broadcaster.

[00:38:35] What is that?

[00:38:39] That is.

[00:38:41] That is bias on one line.

[00:38:44] Probably not appropriate to say.

[00:38:47] But probably what a lot of non Michigan fans were thinking.

[00:38:51] So I think.

[00:38:53] In that realm.

[00:38:54] I don't think it's.

[00:38:56] It's wrong.

[00:38:57] And what he said, but I get why Michigan fans would be like, what are you talking?

[00:39:00] You know, don't.

[00:39:01] How dare you?

[00:39:02] You're supposed to be.

[00:39:02] You're supposed to be down the middle and not bias.

[00:39:06] But that's my guess is he probably would say something that most Ohio state fans and

[00:39:12] maybe other people who don't like Michigan were certainly thinking.

[00:39:16] I'm not.

[00:39:17] I'm a middle guy.

[00:39:18] So I wasn't necessarily thinking it.

[00:39:20] But when I heard it, I was like, oh, Gus.

[00:39:22] Okay.

[00:39:23] This is.

[00:39:23] This is quite interesting that you just went there because one of my beefs.

[00:39:27] I have to which I'll rant about the second one in a minute was.

[00:39:31] And my brothers are on a group text with me and they said this.

[00:39:33] I can't believe how biased the announcers are.

[00:39:36] I hear this all the time in every game when your team's not winning.

[00:39:40] This.

[00:39:40] This announcer is so biased towards my team.

[00:39:43] There's so bias against my team.

[00:39:45] And I'm like, they're not.

[00:39:46] They're just doing it for the most part.

[00:39:49] They're doing their jobs.

[00:39:51] Now, Gus there probably went a little overboard, but he was only doing, I think, what many

[00:39:56] people were thinking that aren't Michigan fans.

[00:39:58] So I'll give him a little bit of a pass.

[00:40:00] But that was teetering right on the edge there at that point.

[00:40:03] He should have just left it at the at the big upset call that he had prior.

[00:40:07] Had I pulled the audio of his description of the postgame melee, we would have had another

[00:40:12] half hour.

[00:40:13] We could have done that.

[00:40:14] Randy, what is Randy?

[00:40:15] What is Randy?

[00:40:15] What is your holy discontent?

[00:40:19] So, I mean, yeah, I guess we'll just stick here with Gus.

[00:40:22] I mean, I don't understand why he said it.

[00:40:25] I almost think he's almost my understanding is he actually grew up a Michigan fan at Cass

[00:40:30] Tech.

[00:40:31] That's I read that a couple of times.

[00:40:34] So I almost think he has like the Kirk Herbstreet syndrome where, you know, he left Ohio because

[00:40:42] Buckeye fans thought Kirk Herbstreet was so biased against them and he moved to Tennessee.

[00:40:47] It's almost like Gus is trying to overcompensate.

[00:40:50] So nobody thinks he is rooting for Michigan.

[00:40:54] But yes, it was ridiculous and didn't like it.

[00:40:58] Um, my holy, I guess the other just saying with the game, I don't like the fact that Ohio State

[00:41:03] and Michigan got fined the same amount.

[00:41:05] I think Ohio State should have been fined more frankly, but yeah.

[00:41:09] So those would be my two holy discontents.

[00:41:11] Josh, what do you got?

[00:41:13] My holy discontent comes from the Georgia Georgia Tech game.

[00:41:17] Oh man.

[00:41:17] Eight overtimes.

[00:41:18] And it, it, it just points to a bigger, it's like a microcosm of a bigger problem.

[00:41:23] And that is if there's one improvement, cultural ball can make a few improvements, but in my

[00:41:27] mind, figuring out a universal way to handle reffing and along with that, how to handle

[00:41:35] replay.

[00:41:36] Those seem to be big issues every week and you have different conferences who have their

[00:41:41] own teams.

[00:41:41] There's no legislative body over them.

[00:41:45] It does seem like, um, the bigger teams and maybe that would happen anyways, but they

[00:41:49] get preferential.

[00:41:50] I mean, there were just, there were several calls that Georgia got very lucky on, unlike

[00:41:55] crucial, crucial plays.

[00:41:57] And there's been other games this year too.

[00:41:59] I mean, it happens all the time.

[00:42:00] It's, it's a subjective sport, right?

[00:42:03] And it's happening fast.

[00:42:04] So I get it.

[00:42:05] I mean, there's been, I mean, Miami, it feels like every week for like three or four weeks

[00:42:09] was getting preferential calls in the ACC, right?

[00:42:12] Like, so it just needs, especially with, um, sports gambling being so much a part of our

[00:42:19] world, right?

[00:42:19] Like there needs to be some sort of cohesion.

[00:42:23] And even as a fan, I want to be reassured that things are on the up and up and nothing

[00:42:29] nefarious or insidious or anything like that is happening.

[00:42:32] So that's my holy discontent.

[00:42:35] Randy is the only member of this panel.

[00:42:38] Randy is the only member of this panel who once wrote a letter to the NBA, accusing them

[00:42:41] of a conspiracy against the Pistons to do.

[00:42:44] Oh yeah.

[00:42:45] Jason's, Jason's eyebrows just went up.

[00:42:47] It was a long time ago, Jason back before there was email, but yes, he wrote a letter

[00:42:51] to Rod Thorne.

[00:42:52] Right, Randy.

[00:42:53] Randy.

[00:42:54] I did.

[00:42:54] Right.

[00:42:54] Because of the obvious conspiracy against the Pistons.

[00:42:57] And then the league had the temerity to deny that it was existing, but they wrote, they

[00:43:01] wrote Randy back.

[00:43:02] Wow.

[00:43:02] Wait, is this a bad boys era?

[00:43:05] It was.

[00:43:06] Right.

[00:43:06] I'm, I got nothing positive to say about the bad boys.

[00:43:09] I'll just, just wondering when you wrote it.

[00:43:12] I was thinking it wasn't during the Kelly Tripuka years.

[00:43:15] I figured it was well after that.

[00:43:17] Okay.

[00:43:18] Might have been a tell with the Larry Bird poster in the background.

[00:43:20] That's right.

[00:43:21] It was also a year that we won the NBA championship.

[00:43:23] So I said, I did not write the letter out of sour grapes because we won.

[00:43:28] It was because it was the right thing to do because they're wrong the way they treated

[00:43:31] us.

[00:43:32] That was not all, not all heroes wear capes, you know?

[00:43:37] And shockingly Randy went on to become a very successful attorney.

[00:43:41] There.

[00:43:42] Persuasive.

[00:43:43] Well done.

[00:43:44] Well done.

[00:43:45] That's good stuff.

[00:43:46] Oh, Jason.

[00:43:47] I know you have to fly.

[00:43:48] Thank you so much for being a part of our discontent real quick.

[00:43:51] Oh yeah.

[00:43:52] I didn't know you had one chambered fire.

[00:43:53] I have.

[00:43:54] And this is, I'm going on another podcast, which is a whole nother story about this.

[00:43:59] Eli Manning is not a first ballot hall of famer.

[00:44:01] And I'm so mad that there are people out there that completely forgot watching football with

[00:44:08] their eyes for 15 years.

[00:44:10] How very average this quarterback was outside of two playoff runs in 2007 and 2011, two of

[00:44:16] the greatest playoff runs of all time.

[00:44:18] But if David Tyree doesn't make the greatest catch of all time, he's not even a hall of

[00:44:23] famer, much less first ballot.

[00:44:25] And because Tyree makes the catch and then the giants upset the Patriots all of a sudden,

[00:44:31] because of his last name on his back, we're putting them in the hall of fame as a first

[00:44:35] ballot.

[00:44:35] But he was a very average quarterback with a career winnings and loss total of 171 and

[00:44:41] 171 who accumulated a lot of yards passing.

[00:44:45] And it has a last name that's connected to other people who are hall of famers.

[00:44:50] That's my, that's my discontent.

[00:44:52] Jason, I'm going to make your evening even better about an hour before we sat down to record.

[00:44:57] I'm flipping through Twitter slash X and I come across my favorite tweet, maybe of the

[00:45:04] last few months.

[00:45:05] Eli Manning is holding a giant fish that he caught.

[00:45:09] I don't know what kind of fish it was, but it was half his body length.

[00:45:12] And he's, he's got the picture up there and Brady has responded to it and said, did you

[00:45:18] catch that one with a helmet too?

[00:45:21] Oh, so good.

[00:45:23] You gotta see it.

[00:45:23] It's really, really good.

[00:45:25] Listen, I love Eli Manning.

[00:45:26] The person, the broadcaster, he's so much fun.

[00:45:29] Yeah.

[00:45:30] But did we just forget what we saw when he was out there for 15 years other than two

[00:45:36] runs?

[00:45:36] Because he never won a playoff game outside of those two runs that he had.

[00:45:40] I don't know.

[00:45:41] This gets me fired up and I'm a Cowboys fan.

[00:45:43] So I'm probably a little biased because I watched him a lot more than most people, but

[00:45:48] he was not good for many, many years.

[00:45:50] He was very, very average.

[00:45:52] So I don't know, but we'll put him in the hall of fame because he won two Super Bowls.

[00:45:56] And because his last name is Manning.

[00:45:57] That's all it takes.

[00:45:58] That's it.

[00:45:59] Jason, good to see you, man.

[00:46:00] Thanks so much.

[00:46:02] Thanks guys.

[00:46:02] Good to see you.

[00:46:02] And you can catch Jason on Sports Spectrum and they are really, really just so solid

[00:46:06] in the space of connecting faith to sports and life.

[00:46:09] So really appreciate him stopping in to spend some time with us.

[00:46:12] And now it's time for that guy.

[00:46:14] Right now, this minute, today, this week, I am.

[00:46:22] This segment is where we sing out the praises of somebody who's kind of, you know, they're

[00:46:26] doing it well.

[00:46:27] They're doing it right.

[00:46:28] And I, for one, would like to begin by singing the praises of the former Chicago Bears head

[00:46:35] coach, Matt Eberflus.

[00:46:37] On Thanksgiving Day, the Lions have been in a bit of a rut.

[00:46:41] And if you watch the first half, they were world beaters as we've seen them for most

[00:46:46] of the season.

[00:46:47] Unstoppable.

[00:46:48] Looked like they were going to maybe win this game by 40 points and get to arrest everybody,

[00:46:52] but they didn't.

[00:46:53] And it came, it came right down literally to the last play.

[00:46:57] You talk about testing the heart health of football fans in the state of Michigan in the

[00:47:04] last week, last few days between Thanksgiving Day and the Michigan game down to the final

[00:47:09] play in both games.

[00:47:11] In the Lions game, Matt Eberflus was so thoughtful at the outset of this holiday season that he delivered

[00:47:19] the kindest of gifts to the Detroit Lions by completely and totally mangling any facet of

[00:47:28] clock management at the end of the game, to the point where you talk about sacrifice,

[00:47:32] Josh, serving others, to the point of his sacrificing his own job.

[00:47:36] And here's what the last few seconds sounded like on the radio with Jason Benetti, who also

[00:47:44] does Tiger broadcast, but he got brought in to do this one on Westwood One Radio in a great,

[00:47:49] great call here in the last 40 seconds.

[00:47:51] Time is ticking away, down to 25 seconds.

[00:47:53] The Bears are on a field goal range.

[00:47:55] They have one timeout.

[00:47:57] It's third and forever.

[00:47:59] Williams at the line, tapping his head.

[00:48:01] We're down to 15 seconds here.

[00:48:04] Caleb Williams out of the shotgun, third and long.

[00:48:07] Time is moving.

[00:48:09] Got to go under 10 seconds now.

[00:48:11] Oh my goodness.

[00:48:13] Back to Williams.

[00:48:14] He's ready to throw.

[00:48:15] He'll throw it down the middle of the field.

[00:48:17] Incomplete at the horn.

[00:48:20] The game is over.

[00:48:22] The Bears won't even get to fourth down.

[00:48:25] They leave Detroit with a timeout in their pocket.

[00:48:29] And the Lions, for the first time since 16, have won on Thanksgiving.

[00:48:35] How in the world can that happen?

[00:48:38] Is that not the theme of some football games in the last, how in the world can that happen

[00:48:45] has been asked a lot in a lot of places by a lot of people.

[00:48:48] Well, and it's nice being on this side of that question.

[00:48:53] Yeah, the people in Illinois and Ohio are asking the question.

[00:48:55] But many years on Thanksgiving weekend, we're sitting there, how did that happen to us?

[00:49:01] You know, on the opposite side.

[00:49:03] Yeah.

[00:49:03] Whatever boneheaded play, call, whatever it was, bad break, et cetera.

[00:49:08] Randy, what was the scene like there?

[00:49:12] Oh, it was great.

[00:49:13] I mean, everybody was screaming.

[00:49:16] I, we were sitting in that end zone, actually.

[00:49:18] So the ball, the play was coming towards us for the end of the play.

[00:49:21] And I'm sitting there watching the play wondering like everybody else, why are they not calling

[00:49:26] timeout?

[00:49:27] Well, but I must confess, I was so focused on the third down play.

[00:49:31] And when he hiked the ball, trying to figure out why they let 20 seconds run off the clock.

[00:49:35] When it went incomplete, I didn't realize that the clock had actually ran out.

[00:49:40] I thought there might still be a second left.

[00:49:42] So everybody around me celebrating.

[00:49:43] And I'm like, it was only third down.

[00:49:44] Why are we celebrating?

[00:49:45] And somebody had to show me the clock.

[00:49:48] But so, yeah, I think everybody was kind of in the same boat.

[00:49:52] They're like, what in the world?

[00:49:53] Why are they not calling a timeout here?

[00:49:56] Yeah.

[00:49:57] But the scene was great.

[00:49:58] It was loud and crazy, very obnoxious as you would expect.

[00:50:03] It was a great, great day.

[00:50:05] I mean, I don't understand.

[00:50:08] I mean, I grew up in the era of having video games and being able to play Madden most of my childhood.

[00:50:15] Strategy development.

[00:50:16] Yes.

[00:50:16] And it's always very confusing to me to watch grown men who are paid millions of dollars

[00:50:22] to not understand what 11 year olds understand playing Madden.

[00:50:25] Yeah.

[00:50:25] Like situational awareness at the end of the game.

[00:50:27] I mean, as soon as it happened, I was sitting with my brother and my boys and stuff.

[00:50:31] And I'm like, you've got to call your timeout.

[00:50:33] Just no matter what happens the next play, even if you get tackled in bounds, you can get your field goal team on the field.

[00:50:38] I mean, the options are endless.

[00:50:41] I don't understand.

[00:50:42] Maybe the answer is because in Madden, 15 minutes isn't really 15 minutes.

[00:50:47] It's like the seconds are like very quick.

[00:50:49] A day is a thousand years.

[00:50:50] So we can see 30 seconds as a grown man.

[00:50:52] They think they have like, you know, all this time in the world.

[00:50:56] I don't know.

[00:50:57] Well, the part about it that mystifies me the most isn't necessarily the head coach,

[00:51:03] because I understand they have a billion things going through their mind at once.

[00:51:07] There are 11 other guys on staff who are on headset, one of them charged with game management.

[00:51:14] Right.

[00:51:14] I'd like to know who that guy was and if he helped Matt pack his boxes on Friday morning or if he kind of got off scot-free.

[00:51:22] But it's just wow.

[00:51:23] What is your that guy, Josh?

[00:51:25] All right.

[00:51:26] My that guy actually has to come from that very game.

[00:51:29] Apparently, Jameer Gibbs posted on TikTok, not on TikTok like the kids are, but posted a video with a bunch of their like plays and code words on a whiteboard behind him.

[00:51:43] So Dan Campbell gets asked about this, I believe after the game.

[00:51:46] Yeah.

[00:51:46] And he says, I have no idea anything about that.

[00:51:50] I'll have to find out more about that kind of.

[00:51:52] Thanks for letting me know.

[00:51:52] But then it comes out today, his Campbell's response to it.

[00:51:57] And it is the ultimate that guy response because he he basically says, I don't care if we lose because people know our code words, then we're not good enough anyways.

[00:52:07] I think we just should post the whole freaking playbook and every code word we've got.

[00:52:12] It doesn't matter.

[00:52:13] It's not going to hurt us.

[00:52:14] And like that's the guy that you want to follow.

[00:52:16] Right.

[00:52:17] That's the guy who's like, listen, as long as you're doing your job, it really doesn't matter.

[00:52:20] And so in the NFL, in a world where everything is so secretive.

[00:52:26] Yeah.

[00:52:26] I mean, like injury reports.

[00:52:28] Yeah.

[00:52:28] Even you follow with Brady, like what Brady's allowed to go do this year as an analyst and what he's not given access to and all of those different things.

[00:52:37] And then to have Campbell be like, yeah, I don't care.

[00:52:40] Give him give our whole playbook.

[00:52:41] We're just going to outman you.

[00:52:43] It almost sounds like he had Connor Stallions write that statement.

[00:52:49] Well, there is that reality too of some big 10 coaches over the past couple of years who have tried to argue very much the other side of that.

[00:52:59] So my, I was texting with my son this afternoon about this story because I had just caught up on it here today.

[00:53:07] And I texted him and said, Jameer Gibbs did what?

[00:53:09] And he said, it's a, it's fake.

[00:53:12] They're, they're trying to fool everybody by putting the wrong play calls and the wrong code words on the board and having him bounce in front of it.

[00:53:21] I said, well, that's, that's not fake.

[00:53:23] I mean, that would be a next level subterfuge.

[00:53:26] I mean, the trolling at a very high level, but not in the aftermath of a game in the room where clearly they gathered to go over their play calls on the whiteboard.

[00:53:34] No, you'd have to be beautiful mind level of nuts to, to a script.

[00:53:40] Now maybe Ben Johnson did and maybe in the next game, they just keep people guessing with all of it.

[00:53:45] But that just seems highly unlikely.

[00:53:48] And yeah, Campbell handles it, handles these things really well.

[00:53:51] So Randy, anybody you want to shout out before we wrap things up?

[00:53:57] Um, I guess I, I guess I got to go with Brad Holmes.

[00:54:00] I mean, what, how he's trying to keep this defense together on a shoestring right now and finding up, finding these people and putting them on our practice squad.

[00:54:10] And hopefully they get out for game time.

[00:54:13] I mean, the amount of injury, I mean, everybody has injuries, not, and Dan Campbell be the first one, as we clearly know to say, not put experience.

[00:54:21] You know that that's never an excuse as part of the game, but it is just unbelievable.

[00:54:25] The amount of injuries that defenses that defensive side of the ball has taken.

[00:54:30] And the fact that they hold maybe should be the defensive coordinator.

[00:54:35] Cause the fact that they hadn't given up a touchdown for 10 quarters with all the injuries prior to Thanksgiving is just nuts.

[00:54:42] So just the Lions defense and the whole staff for keeping that together.

[00:54:46] As you're sitting in Ford field Thursday, I'm wondering if you saw like literal stopwatch time,

[00:54:53] more time spent tending to injured players or watching actual action, because it seemed like every other play somebody was going down, man.

[00:55:02] It was just a, it was this tough scene and eventually you're going to run out of bodies.

[00:55:07] So with Green Bay coming in next week, I'm a little bit on edge about that one.

[00:55:11] Cause the margins are thin now and the roster is getting thin.

[00:55:15] And so who knows, but in Brad, we trust is that that's not on our, on our money.

[00:55:22] Right?

[00:55:22] Okay, good.

[00:55:23] I just want to make sure let's wrap things up with our three minute message.

[00:55:28] Homer.

[00:55:28] I'd like you to remember Matthew 7, 26, the foolish man who built his house on sound.

[00:55:35] And you remember Matthew 21, 17.

[00:55:41] And he left them and went out of the city into Bethany and he lodged there.

[00:55:47] Yeah.

[00:55:48] Think about it.

[00:55:51] All right.

[00:55:52] Well, for this week's message of three minutes to just kind of refocus us, I was thinking of our whole episode has been kind of centered around this flag planting that happened in Columbus.

[00:56:03] And I love sports, love getting to banter about it, talk about different theories, all of these different things.

[00:56:10] But it is just a good reminder at the end of the day, all of this is just a game.

[00:56:16] It's for our entertainment.

[00:56:17] Um, it doesn't, doesn't impact our lives or eternity.

[00:56:22] And so even just would give encouragement as you join in during maybe the NFL playoffs or the college football playoffs coming up or bowl games or whatever it is.

[00:56:31] Um, just a reminder that ultimately our true hope is not in whether our team wins a game or loses a game.

[00:56:37] It, it can be anyways, in something much, uh, deeper, much more profound.

[00:56:43] Um, and as we are entering into Advent, this week is the first week of Advent and it actually talks about hope.

[00:56:49] And it talks about how our hope is not based on anything that we can conjure up ourselves.

[00:56:55] It's not based on our ability.

[00:56:56] It is based on the fact that Jesus is the light of the world, that he's the one who comes to rescue and save his people.

[00:57:04] And so you see this all the way back in Isaiah, where he's, he's prophesying about this great light that is going to come and rescue God's people who are living in darkness.

[00:57:14] And then when Jesus comes on the scene, he actually quotes those very words from Isaiah chapter nine and says that, that he is the light that has dawned.

[00:57:22] And he invites people to come live in his everlasting light.

[00:57:25] And so just a reminder for us all, um, as we enter in, even to the holiday season, maybe you find yourself lacking hope or being concerned about different things that ultimately Jesus is the one who gives us hope and meaning.

[00:57:38] And because of that, there's this way where we can enjoy sports, but we can also step away from it.

[00:57:43] So I know a goal of mine, I used to get really wrapped up into whether the lions won or lost or Michigan won or lost or all of those things.

[00:57:51] And now, now as a dad, I try and be, if you come watch a game with us, we are very passionate.

[00:57:56] We yell, we have a lot of fun, we jump up and down, but then it's trying to make that transition right afterwards of whether we win or lose.

[00:58:04] That's not our ultimate hope. It was a fun, fun thing we got to participate in.

[00:58:08] That's the role of sports. But now we have, we have something much deeper to put our hope in.

[00:58:12] So good stuff. Yeah. Very well said.

[00:58:15] And I believe on Sunday, part of Josh, Josh's message was that when the light came into the world, the blind were made to see, the lame were made to walk, the deaf were made to hear.

[00:58:31] And in Columbus, Ohio, the light broke through the darkness.

[00:58:35] It did. Yes, that did make its way.

[00:58:36] All those things are true.

[00:58:37] It did make its way into my sermon. When the kingdom of God comes, this is what we can look for.

[00:58:42] I love it. Randy, thanks, man. Good to see you.

[00:58:46] Good to see you all.

[00:58:47] By the way, for all of you who are still with us here at the end of this Church Pew Sports episode, we now have a YouTube channel.

[00:58:53] So we're maybe against our better judgment.

[00:58:56] We're making use of the video side of all of this, along with the audio podcast that you've become accustomed to hearing.

[00:59:01] So go to YouTube, subscribe to the Church Pew Sports channel, and you can actually see how the sausage is made, so to speak, if that kind of thing is entertaining to you.

[00:59:10] Faces made for podcasting, actually on camera.

[00:59:13] Thanks for joining us.

[00:59:14] Thank you again to Jason Romano from Sports Spectrum.

[00:59:17] We'll talk to you again next time on Church Pew Sports.