Armen Keteyian On College Football's Era of Chaos

[00:00:00] I'm not very big on sort of these hot takes on things but I think if you're in the Halls of Indianapolis as I've been, they're well aware that in many ways they're on a respirator right now.

[00:00:11] The following is a presentation of Hobson Media.

[00:00:14] Well who?

[00:00:23] This is the Church Pew Sports podcast featuring a group of pastors delivering bombastic takes on sports, life and faith.

[00:00:34] Take a knee.

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[00:00:39] Lendon Ear

[00:00:40] And these are some of the best questions I've had I haven't been telling you that straight up.

[00:00:44] As the Church Pew Sports podcast begins,

[00:00:47] It's great father's son Bondig.

[00:00:49] Kigs and eggs in football, let's go.

[00:00:53] It is great father and son Bondig.

[00:00:55] And with that we welcome you all into another edition of Church Pew Sports, I'm excited.

[00:01:00] This is going to be a very fun show and I am so glad you're all with us.

[00:01:04] Thank you for subscribing and hopefully sharing the link to the podcast with other sports fans in your world.

[00:01:10] Bill Hobson here, along with Pastor Paul Miller as always.

[00:01:14] And we even got David Collins to join us today because Paul eventually went our very special guest joins us.

[00:01:23] Is there anybody on the planet better suited for the conversation that we are going to have with New York Times best selling author,

[00:01:30] Emmy Award winner HBO Insides Sports correspondent, Armand Catean.

[00:01:35] Is there anybody better for an NL discussion than David Collins?

[00:01:40] No, you know, here's what's interesting, Bill.

[00:01:42] As we've gone on this whole journey of trying to figure out what's going on with NCAA football and everything else,

[00:01:48] David Collins is the one guy who's opinion I've wanted to know the most often and I've been most concerned that what I think aligns with what he thinks.

[00:01:56] Until you told me the Army Catean was coming on the show and now David's bumped down to second, but he's still up near the top of the list.

[00:02:04] So, bro, we're glad you're here today.

[00:02:07] Yeah, I'm happy to be here.

[00:02:09] It's kind of a special podcast episode.

[00:02:11] So I look forward to getting an opportunity to talk about the NL situation because that is something that's been, you know,

[00:02:20] something I've been railing about for a long time now.

[00:02:22] Yes, you have.

[00:02:24] We have a lot of ground to cover in all of that, but we would be completely remiss here in our part of the world, which is Michigan and Detroit Tiger Country, not to mention that we are recording on Friday morning and later this evening in Detroit at Comerica Park.

[00:02:44] The improbable has a chance of happening and it not only has the chance of happening, David, it went from if I remember correctly in August, a 0.2% likelihood, 0.2, not even 2% that the Detroit Tigers could somehow get to the postseason.

[00:03:03] And I saw a graphic this morning that it is now at 97% probability.

[00:03:09] Can you wrap your head around what this team is doing?

[00:03:13] No, I can't and we're like 30 and 11 in our last 41.

[00:03:20] This is the most unbelievable season to me since 2006 where it just seemed like there was going to be magic constantly.

[00:03:28] There is magic every night and it's a different guy that does the magic every night.

[00:03:34] Whether it's scuba going out there and dominate in for seven innings or it's Parker Meadows, you know, robin home run or cold cave getting the big hit last night.

[00:03:44] It doesn't like it's crazy to me.

[00:03:47] I cannot possibly explain to people what is happening?

[00:03:52] Yeah, I don't even know what is happening.

[00:03:53] How about the Tigers have a two run lead in the eighth inning that give it up in the ninth inning.

[00:03:58] There's two runners on second and third nobody out Tigers are about to lose a walk off in the bottom of the ninth then this happens.

[00:04:04] Just do extras.

[00:04:07] To those swing and a soft little pop up that's trouble by swanie.

[00:04:15] What a play.

[00:04:21] Oh, is going to drop in swanie said no.

[00:04:24] David, there are guys making plays that I could not pick out of a lineup.

[00:04:29] There are guys who have never seen major league competition before who are making game changing and season changing plays and for those of you out there who are not baseball fans at all.

[00:04:41] I'm just here to tell you, there is a team you can root for in that team is in Detroit.

[00:04:46] Yeah, I mean, and you look at it and say we sold at the trade deadline.

[00:04:50] But what did we get back?

[00:04:51] We got Trace Swaney for Jack Flerty and he continually makes big plays.

[00:04:56] He's solid at short stop.

[00:04:57] He's hitting the ball.

[00:05:00] That's what I'm saying though, it's like he makes an amazing play.

[00:05:03] You know, almost kills himself running into Riley Green and then.

[00:05:06] But the next game, he doesn't do anything but Porkelson hits a bomb.

[00:05:10] Like it just it's it's insane what this team is doing.

[00:05:14] And it's beyond my grasp of understanding, but I love it.

[00:05:17] I'm watching every game, every pitch, and I can't get enough.

[00:05:21] And there was one other baseball related thing we need to touch on before we turn our attention to football.

[00:05:26] And that is what show Hail Tony is doing has done.

[00:05:31] We'll likely continue to do entering the 50 50 club.

[00:05:36] On to, oh, Tony, San Juan Leer, the other line season.

[00:05:51] So Hail Tony, start the 50 50 club.

[00:05:59] I don't know Paul if it's fair to say that this particular season,

[00:06:03] the baseball is seeing new entries in its all-time record book.

[00:06:09] And our, you know, our tigers are kind of a part of that storyline, but what do,

[00:06:12] O'Tani is doing defines, defines all logic.

[00:06:16] Yeah, here's how, like I'm not the biggest baseball guy right?

[00:06:19] But here's how I knew this was a deal, a big deal.

[00:06:22] I saw a headline about a fan suing another fan for the 50 50th home run ball,

[00:06:29] because they grappled forward in the stands apparently, and now somebody's trying to sell it with some sports mode,

[00:06:34] a member of Boudouu Company.

[00:06:36] And the other guys taken him to court over who actually had the ball first.

[00:06:40] So if that's what's happening in fan world, then I think we can say O'Tani is on a heater.

[00:06:46] Let's say the very least, David will he ever play on another team, a Moodella ever, ever,

[00:06:54] part ways with this guy. This is, this is Bay Brew, of our era.

[00:06:59] I mean, he's better than Bay Brew. I'm just going to say it like the guy is,

[00:07:02] the guy is a power hitter and when he gets healthy and can pitch again,

[00:07:06] he's a top 10 pitcher in the league and he's a top three hitter in the league.

[00:07:09] Like that doesn't make any sense, but no, L.A will never let this guy go.

[00:07:13] And if they do, it's, you know, going to be New York or something.

[00:07:16] I just can't believe the angels had him and Mike trout and didn't do a thing.

[00:07:20] Nothing.

[00:07:22] You're absolutely talking about under-reachieving.

[00:07:26] Yeah, okay, there's our baseball for those of you who are seamheads,

[00:07:30] your, your seven minutes are set. We're all good.

[00:07:34] And next week a blue MLB playoff preview.

[00:07:37] If I'm correct. Yeah, come here with our friends.

[00:07:39] Yeah, it's a whole great.

[00:07:40] But in the meantime, we turn our attention to the world of college football because so many things are happening.

[00:07:46] In a moment, we'll be joined by Armon Cattain.

[00:07:49] He's about five minutes away from checking in with us.

[00:07:53] And David, I was curious as to whether or not you would agree with the label of the era that we're in right now in college football,

[00:08:01] especially in light of what the UNLV quarterback did this week.

[00:08:06] Would you label this era a complete mess in the N.I.L. realm?

[00:08:11] It's 100% a complete mess.

[00:08:12] Yeah, but it's the mess that we've needed to uncover what's been going on for years behind the scenes.

[00:08:20] And now it's an even playing field.

[00:08:22] And now a quarterback from UNLV is at, it told he's going to receive certain compensation and he doesn't receive it.

[00:08:29] And now he's sitting out like this, and here's the thing is like,

[00:08:33] how often for how many years have coaches been able to make promises to kids that we're going to be here.

[00:08:40] And we're going to build this program and then they leave for the better job immediately when they get the chance.

[00:08:44] Now we have players that are saying, I've been promised something.

[00:08:47] I'm not receiving it.

[00:08:48] I'm going to do the same thing.

[00:08:50] I just wish Michigan would go get him because we don't have a quarterback.

[00:08:54] Well, as you're probably aware, there's been an offer made just the last couple of day.

[00:09:01] Actually yesterday by one Michigan fan with a few resources at his disposal,

[00:09:05] we don't often play sound bites on this program from bar stool president and owner and CEO and founder Dave Portnoy.

[00:09:13] Because normally there were little two profane, but this one we can play because it contains of rather interesting

[00:09:19] concept and a question that will also ask of our guests.

[00:09:23] I will sign them million to million whatever it is.

[00:09:25] Let's the top three million.

[00:09:27] But I can get a quarterback.

[00:09:29] We don't have a quarterback.

[00:09:30] No, I'm going to get, I'm going to get us a top ten quarterback in the portal coming out every year.

[00:09:34] Top ten quarterback.

[00:09:36] Three million dollar marketing.

[00:09:37] I think that's legal.

[00:09:39] I think that's legal.

[00:09:42] Because Dave Paul isn't kind of the rule of the day is I think that's legal.

[00:09:48] I think when there's no rules, everything's legal.

[00:09:51] Isn't that kind of how it works?

[00:09:54] So yeah, I can't wait to see what Armans take is on Mr. Portnoy and as an Ohio State fan,

[00:10:01] I kind of respect the sentiment behind what he's doing, even if it robs me the wrong way.

[00:10:07] And if Michigan rolls out, I don't know Kyle McCord or somebody next year as they're starting quarterback and then

[00:10:13] I'll be like okay.

[00:10:14] Well, I guess it worked.

[00:10:15] Well, the coach at we are Marshall was ready to come after some of your buck.

[00:10:20] I love to have someone who's got from a Ohio State too.

[00:10:22] So if they want to transfer on down, we've got a tutor, a tutor's biscuit and IL all you can eat.

[00:10:31] So if any of those guys that run really, really fast at Ohio State like tutors biscuits, I promise you all you can eat all day.

[00:10:40] If you transfer here so.

[00:10:42] But yeah.

[00:10:45] I love that.

[00:10:46] Just love that.

[00:10:47] And now David has a young hungry athlete in high school with that sort of an offer called your attention.

[00:10:53] I mean, tutors biscuit, you kidding me?

[00:10:55] Yeah, I'd be first what plane there, man.

[00:10:58] Let's go.

[00:10:59] I just love the brazenness of it.

[00:11:02] And I love that it's again, it's out in the open now like this is just the way it is.

[00:11:07] And and the reality is there's there need to be some structure and some system in place.

[00:11:13] Sure, how about have the schools that make billions of dollars pay the kids as though they're employees.

[00:11:18] But that's never going to happen.

[00:11:20] So if they don't want that, it's just going to be the wild wild west and that's how we're going to have to deal with it.

[00:11:26] Okay, there's a comical side to it like what we just heard from the guy Marshall.

[00:11:32] And then there is the concerning side to it, which is I guess a little bit on the surface of what we just saw for our heard from from day point away because certainly he's not going to be alone in all of that.

[00:11:44] And there is nobody better qualified to talk about the state of the game these days at the college level than Arman Cateen who was kind enough to be with us on the show.

[00:11:55] When it's last book came out, it was about a year and a half ago and we had a wonderful time.

[00:12:00] Arman welcome back to church pew sports. It's good to see you.

[00:12:04] Yeah, my pleasure guys.

[00:12:06] This this new book has so much in it. I don't even know Paul how we're going to it to dig into all of it.

[00:12:13] Let me introduce Arman everybody who is here. Bill Hobbson here. Paul Miller David Collins who.

[00:12:18] David a couple of years ago. I believe labeled the NCAA as was at the most corrupt organization on the planet next to the IOC and FIFA.

[00:12:28] It is third.

[00:12:29] It's third. Okay, so they're on the podium though.

[00:12:32] Yeah.

[00:12:33] So Arman as you're doing the research for this book.

[00:12:36] Did you come away with a similar mindset that is meant? This is just a complete dumpster fire all the way through.

[00:12:43] Well, I started being excuse me. I started with the NCAA back in when I was a sports illustrator in the mid-AIDS and Jack McCallum and I was a senior writer.

[00:12:53] I went to think it was mission Kansas in those days to interview Walter Byers who was in his that time probably third or fourth decade as the third world desperate of the association.

[00:13:07] And I remember Jack, I don't remember the energy but Jack has said to me subsequently recently that I didn't treat Walter and he loved it.

[00:13:15] I didn't treat Walter with a respect Walter thought he deserved.

[00:13:18] That was asking some very direct questions at the time about these associations. So if you know anything about it and I do, I mean it was found in on fallacy was found it on what somebody said was the original lie that student athlete was nothing more than the catch phrase that was created.

[00:13:35] I mean by Byers to keep association free of workers compensation cases and then if you go through the leadership from Byers to you know you have dick sholes, you have a said MC you have Mark M. Wright and now you have Charlie Baker.

[00:13:54] You know time and time again the S.A. is had the opportunity in court it's well documented to share the wealth with the labor force responsible for providing the vast majority of that wealth and that's the athletes themselves and I would classify them now and the major sports is the athlete students because they spend more time on the field than they do in the classroom.

[00:14:15] So if you look at the legal history and you say okay you have a abandon which is sort of certainly you kind of certainly the op and iron effect that was the original atomic bomb created by Sonny to caro and Eddo Bannon and then you have the Austin case and now now you have the most recent cases that have led to the Supreme Court ruling in 2021.

[00:14:43] Basically a 9-0 decision that called the NCA nothing less than a cartel and certainly in violation of the Sherman Antoin trust act and suppressing the labor force that was responsible as we said for all the riches.

[00:14:56] So from from O'Bannon to Austin to House this is what you get when when you delay and deny for decades and you spend hundreds of millions of dollars defending really the indefensible.

[00:15:10] The chaos that we're now seeing particularly this week another example with what happened at UNLV with the quarterback there at the slow slick and now you have the pack seven I think as we stand, sowing the mountain west.

[00:15:29] They're fighting over the spoils what's left of those two conferences.

[00:15:35] For nothing more than self interest and greed and when you combine those two elements as we talk about consistently in the book when greed and self interest are.

[00:15:46] The priorities for individual institutions the greater good gets left behind and that's where we are right now in the chaos that we're seeing is everybody's kind out for themselves it's self protection mode and until.

[00:16:00] Whether the walls come tumbling down or the roof collapses or whatever happens and there's this.

[00:16:07] Be able to go moment where people go well way to second this is much further than we need to go and they put the greater good in front of their own self interest we're going to continue to see what we're seeing right now these are not isolated events in any way shape.

[00:16:21] The armans new book is called the price what it takes to win in college football's era of chaos and let me just tell you all you need to get this book.

[00:16:31] Thank you!

[00:16:32] Many people are listening to the podcast because that's what they're accustomed to we've actually posted the video of today's conversation which would then mean.

[00:16:39] that you all have been able to watch David Collins in the last two minutes of

[00:16:44] Arman's answer literally gives standing ovation and almost fall off of his couch

[00:16:48] because David, I have a feeling you have goosebumps kind of coming up your spine

[00:16:53] hearing what Arman is saying because it largely echoes the things you've been

[00:16:57] preaching from the mountain tops.

[00:16:59] Yeah, and I've been talking about this for a few years but Arman like to me

[00:17:03] like what we're the error we're in right now is just it like a pulling back of the curtain

[00:17:08] of what's kind of been going along and the underbelly of college football.

[00:17:14] I guess my question to you is what would be a potential solution to this?

[00:17:19] I mean, I don't know if it's the schools paying the players themselves

[00:17:23] out of their own budgets or it kind of seems like it's completely up for grabs at

[00:17:28] this point and it doesn't look like there's any horizon in which it gets rained

[00:17:33] in.

[00:17:34] Well, I sat in June of 2023.

[00:17:37] I sat in a so called big stakeholders meeting in DC that was brought together by

[00:17:42] Bobby Robbins, the then president and now it's October 1 that the party president

[00:17:47] of the University of Arizona and Charlie Vaker was there, the NCAA president

[00:17:52] and Frank Sanky was there.

[00:17:54] Oliver Lock was there was kind of a hoose who everybody trying to figure out what the future

[00:17:59] is going to look like and they at the time were in DC for a reason to appeal to certain

[00:18:06] senators and congressmen for health with legislation and that I think that should

[00:18:10] his sale certainly in the in the interim or in the immediate future until we get through this

[00:18:16] political season that worked currently in.

[00:18:19] I don't know David, I look in the crystal ball.

[00:18:21] I've been looking at it since you know the price came out of three weeks ago and it's still

[00:18:26] pretty cloudy.

[00:18:26] I think if you're a pessimist you see a breakaway group and I mean pessimists for the greater

[00:18:35] good of college football for the mid-American and the sunbatten and the mountain west

[00:18:40] and even the American athletic conference and people like that and those on the also

[00:18:44] brands in the bigger conferences I see a breakaway group that will have control of its

[00:18:51] own entity.

[00:18:52] They'll have their own roles whether whether there would be a union or not and they'll

[00:18:56] collect a bargain with the athletes, the players themselves, the labor force.

[00:19:02] They'll have certainly their own rules regarding enforcement because as you alluded

[00:19:06] to what has been going on under the table for decades, the sort of the pay for play

[00:19:12] for the reward for performance on the field on a Saturday is now above board.

[00:19:17] The problem is not of the rules that they're operating now, whatever rules they are

[00:19:22] are enforceable by the NCA's enforcement staff and I know that staff pretty well.

[00:19:26] I certainly know John Duncan very well and I have a brief respect for John but on a good

[00:19:31] day he's got a terrible job and their hands are tied behind their backs because of lawsuits

[00:19:37] and the courts and the courts are now very, very sympathetic to this labor force.

[00:19:42] And rightly so when you look at the facts it's part to argue anything but a cartel

[00:19:49] and I think Charlie Baker says someone sent to me he's either going to be the best president

[00:19:54] in the history of the Estonian nation or the last president in the history of the association

[00:19:59] because when those groups break away and it'll certainly be Greg Sanky and Tony Petini

[00:20:04] drive in the train or the bus but who's going to be on that train around that bus still

[00:20:10] very much up in the year?

[00:20:13] Now it's talking about former 60 minutes producer of my current 64-in-a-mind dragon

[00:20:18] old bitch and he was saying you know just I always stayed in the car out of state

[00:20:22] make it.

[00:20:23] And I frankly don't know this Arizona State make it does Illinois make it does Purdue

[00:20:28] or Northwestern make it into that big group with whether it be sort of relegation like the

[00:20:34] premier league which I think would be really interesting to keep people better on the outside

[00:20:40] trying to look and go and oh my god it's Iowa State versus Colorado State if they win

[00:20:44] they're making it into the file 64.

[00:20:48] So all I know right now is is that when you ask people the same question you asked me

[00:20:55] about what is the future look like more often than not the answer is I don't know.

[00:21:00] I'm not sure.

[00:21:01] Let me ask you then from the other perspective like the NCAA has been getting annihilated

[00:21:07] in court like they lose every single time they go to court like all they're doing right now

[00:21:13] is just trying to fight for viability right like they're just trying to fight to stay a thing

[00:21:18] but what you just described is really fascinating is if these conferences break off

[00:21:23] and they start their own leagues then where does the NCAA go from here do they still stay in control

[00:21:28] of the smaller sports do they like what I think there you can't have division one

[00:21:34] the way it is now you can't have Alabama and Alabama state in this it making the same rules

[00:21:40] for a group of universities that really other than maybe let's say the top 30 in the country

[00:21:48] have very little to do with the rest of the remainder of the other hundred that are playing

[00:21:53] division one football whatever that number is.

[00:21:57] I think the associations history is such that it's really hard to feel sympathy

[00:22:07] for anything that's going on right now.

[00:22:09] I know in some of the reporting that we did for the book you guys may know Greg Schoing

[00:22:14] who ran the men's basketball tournament for years and years and years and years

[00:22:19] and was greatly respected by the media and others that involved in college basketball

[00:22:24] there was an opportunity when Miles Brand was the president of the NCAA Greg was totally involved

[00:22:31] with the NIL movement he was involved with the student athlete coalition he was involved

[00:22:36] with the conferences and they were trying to put together some sort of revenue share that we come

[00:22:42] out of the EA sports video game because Greg saw the future and was like you know that's a likeness

[00:22:49] I don't care what you guys are saying in the air and the end half was but that's name image

[00:22:52] and likeness and those people should be compensated and he was told by the power brokers there

[00:22:58] like this is what we say it is.

[00:23:01] It's not what anybody else says it is it's our definition of like this well the courts have a different

[00:23:05] opinion.

[00:23:06] Claudia Wilkins and the nine districts certainly had a different opinion about what likeness is in the

[00:23:11] abandon case.

[00:23:12] It's important to remember that the vast majority of the NCAA's money more than a billion

[00:23:18] dollars a year comes from really one event it's March Madness it's three weeks of college

[00:23:24] basketball they get very very little revenue from college football so if college football

[00:23:29] decides to leave they're going to take their part of gold and they're going with it

[00:23:34] and the NCA is going to have very little to do there's going to have very little to say about that

[00:23:41] what they have to hope is that the other schools that are involved in college basketball don't

[00:23:45] say the major schools go well we're going to start our own conference we're going to have our own

[00:23:48] grand rights we don't need you we're going to run our own conference tournaments and we're going

[00:23:53] on our own March Madness and I got to tell you having worked at the networks for as long

[00:23:57] as I have they're not going to be raising their hands and going oh no wait we need

[00:24:02] the NCA yeah you can see it doesn't that mean the NCA is and I don't really I'm not very

[00:24:08] big on sort of these hot takes on things but I think if you're in the halls of Indianapolis

[00:24:13] as I've been there well aware that in many ways they're on a respirator right now and

[00:24:19] unless there are significant changes made I think Charlie Baker is a very pragmatic

[00:24:24] very smart politician and he's the right man at the right time for the association

[00:24:31] but does he have enough power when you think about members schools to convince those that

[00:24:37] are very much concerned about their own self interest to think of the greater good

[00:24:43] that remains to be seen as far as I'm concerned.

[00:24:47] Yeah okay I'm I have we were talking back in June on this podcast about the house

[00:24:53] for SCWD right yeah and that decision was coming down and I found as we were talking

[00:24:59] I found this paper written by a Duke University economics grad student and he was

[00:25:07] talk his premise was like how is the NCAA going to survive and he said there were three

[00:25:12] things that needed to happen so I've loved to throw this by you and head to him.

[00:25:15] None of these things are going to happen.

[00:25:16] I went to senior state by the way so when I was talking Duke this may be over my head.

[00:25:21] Well he said he said three things have to happen for the NCAA to survive first

[00:25:26] of all they're going to need and I trust protection from the federal government they're

[00:25:31] going to need that second thing he said they're going to need is uniform and I

[00:25:35] think that the federal government is going to be a real rule across state lines so that

[00:25:38] has come from Congress and you kind of hinted at their little preoccupied especially

[00:25:42] in this moment.

[00:25:44] And then the third thing he said was separation between revenue and non revenue

[00:25:48] sports and his theory was if all three of those things happened then the NCAA has a

[00:25:55] lot.

[00:25:55] How would you react?

[00:25:57] I think number one there there I think anti-trust protection is the single most important

[00:26:03] thing that the NCAA leadership is looking for whether Congress at this point in time certainly

[00:26:09] not now to the end of 24 and I think you've been argue certainly halfway through 25.

[00:26:15] I mean some of the stuff that's coming out of Senator Tubberville's mouth.

[00:26:18] I mean I just want to be a trash can over here I can probably vomit in the trash can

[00:26:24] because he's so clueless as to what the reality is of college football.

[00:26:29] Are he still back when he was coaching you know college football?

[00:26:34] So I think from the NCAA's perspective it's a must have whether you're going to get

[00:26:39] it is a very open question number two I think and forget I'm forgetting number two

[00:26:45] so you're going to get a full number of rules across.

[00:26:48] Absolutely there has to be some sort of uniform rules and there has to be transparency

[00:26:55] right now what you have is the ability to say oh I signed a non-disclosure agreement

[00:27:00] so I can't talk about or be we know really we're a collective we're not obligated

[00:27:06] to tell the NCAA anything about our doings because we're not yet connected to the school

[00:27:11] we're separate entity take a hike and and three go back to three ball.

[00:27:19] The third is a separation between revenue and non-revenue sports.

[00:27:23] I think that I think you're headed in that direction the problem is Title IX

[00:27:28] and you're going to have another series of lawsuits from the non-revs sports.

[00:27:33] They're going to have to figure out a way when used when this lawsuit is finally

[00:27:39] settled with Claudia Welkin the 2.8 billion and as we speak I think she's still

[00:27:44] refining what the settlement will be and I know from what I've read and what I've been told

[00:27:50] she's not a big fan of what the NCAA is demanding and it's latest settlement talks

[00:27:55] which is to basically take the pay for play element out and there's going to be some clearing

[00:27:59] house good luck with that clearing house and then I L deals saying they have to be in

[00:28:05] a way shape or form uniform which is complete because if I'm a quarterback coming out of

[00:28:12] let's just say holy cross going to UNLV or I'm the top rated quarterback in the country

[00:28:18] as Julian Sand was we profile him in our book and I decide he took a huge discount

[00:28:24] to go to Alabama he's now Ohio State because Nick had retired but he was looking at 2,

[00:28:30] a year for four years, $8 million deals that were being presented in front of him so

[00:28:37] whether you're in the portal or whether you're coming out of high school it's a completely

[00:28:40] different story but there does have to be in my mind there has to be some form of

[00:28:47] uniformity and some sort of transparency so people know what the market is so in the

[00:28:52] region say to you many of them who I mean the guy could bring my door right now doorbell

[00:28:58] and say he's an agent and he could be an I L agent because there's no you don't have to register

[00:29:04] with anybody and you don't have to pass any tests to be one you can be the shoe shop guy down

[00:29:09] street and say you know that's a pretty good business to get into but there does have

[00:29:14] to be transparency and so I think your Duke University student your E-com guy is on the right

[00:29:22] track now whether anybody's going to agree to that you know sort of Armageddon

[00:29:28] I don't know but it makes for I mean I've covered college sports

[00:29:33] got going back into the 80s so 90s to 2010 20 going on you know 45 years

[00:29:41] I've never seen it like this you know the chaos and the confusion and the and I

[00:29:47] mentioned the self interest and nobody really knowing how to fix it right now

[00:29:52] I mean there's a lot of people talking about things but it's one thing to talk about

[00:29:56] and it's another thing to actually put a coalition together that's only to give up

[00:30:01] something on the right and it's for the greater good and I'm not seeing that right now

[00:30:05] in fact I'm seeing more like every man from self and that's

[00:30:09] and every university for itself and that's not healthy. So Armageddon

[00:30:12] if we take this whole name image and likeness ball and put it into the like the form

[00:30:19] of a hornet's nest but it's tucked away around the backside of the barn it's not bothering

[00:30:23] anybody nobody's going to go touch it or bother the hornets because they don't want to deal with

[00:30:28] the mess and then along comes this little guy named James Harbaugh who pokes at that

[00:30:35] nest and pokes at it and pokes at it maybe even I don't know if this is accurate

[00:30:40] or if this is my Wolverine bias coming in but maybe even to his own detriment

[00:30:45] where he then becomes the target of all the hornets in the nest as we sit here today

[00:30:51] did Harbaugh win? Well that's a very good question. I did all the reporting on the Harbaugh stuff

[00:30:57] and it's some of my favorite parts of the board. Mine too there's three big chapters on it you know

[00:31:01] John I kind of hit the lottery when Michigan won it all. The intrigue just in

[00:31:08] an hour between Jim I mean Jim's backs the way to me is so fascinating I have you know Jim

[00:31:15] hack it I'll be hired Jim and why he hired Jim and Jim having to change the way he approached

[00:31:23] his staff and the priorities of his position it's time we're on and then they go on this

[00:31:31] amazing run but the tension and the strain between Jim and Warmanio the athletic director

[00:31:38] is a big part of the book I think it's a critical part of the book because it's one reason

[00:31:43] that Jim decided to take the offer that he had from the chargers on the other hand so he's

[00:31:50] got on one hand he's a Michigan man he's in the middle he's getting squeezed from it within the athletic

[00:31:55] department and words reluctance to embrace an I.o. And if you know I mean think about Michigan

[00:32:02] the last count they have five collectives that's the dumbest thing in the world as far as I'm concerned

[00:32:08] and they have an then they have a marketing company valiant so it's there's four collectives in

[00:32:14] marketing company and they're all sort of fighting over the same donor dollars that just doesn't work

[00:32:19] so Jim's gone one and he's got that on the other hand as you mentioned he's poking the hornets

[00:32:25] nest with the NCAA and the NCAA investigators and Tom Morris who's a brilliant attorney is a

[00:32:30] critical character in our book he's he's the NCAA's worst nightmare because A he's super smart

[00:32:36] and B he understands how the system works because he represented athletes and coaches and

[00:32:41] eligibility and waiver issues when Jim brings him in to deal with the investigators and clearly

[00:32:47] there was a bias if you understand what happens to one of the assistant coaches and we lay that out

[00:32:54] in the book who is accused of virtually the same thing that Jim was accused of which was lying to the

[00:33:00] NCAA investigators but when the guy said oh finally assistant said oh I have this vague

[00:33:04] reflection of being at this meeting during a dead period during COVID-19 and he got slapped on the

[00:33:10] wrist I think he got a one-game suspension Jim said the same thing over and over look I don't remember

[00:33:16] you know I have 300 I need 300 athletes a year I'm a busy guy and Tom said to a

[00:33:23] more central Jim if you remember tell him you remember I don't remember well then they showed

[00:33:28] him the infamous receipt for the cheeseburger right on a Saturday morning Jim came with his daughter

[00:33:34] to a famous place in the Ann Arbor any he said well okay there's the receipt

[00:33:40] who orders a cheeseburger for breakfast on a Saturday except me okay I was there now the

[00:33:46] excuse him is lying and and and and running a corrupt program essentially okay that's a

[00:33:54] level one violation according to the NCAA by their own definition of what a level one

[00:34:00] violation is and what does Jim get he gets a four year show cost penalty you got to be kidding me

[00:34:06] I mean if you if you didn't have a target on his back and Bill as you said when you go

[00:34:12] out repeatedly and talk about athletes should be paid that we're in the business of taking

[00:34:20] advantage of our student athletes there has to be revenue sharing you are poking the bear

[00:34:25] or the hornets nasty as you mentioned and I think there's no question is and you get to the

[00:34:31] end and you're Jim Harbaugh and on one hand you're squeezed by the school that you love but

[00:34:37] you have a tough relationship with the Board of Regents and you're athletic director and on the

[00:34:41] other hand you're getting squeezed or screwed by the NCAA and Dean Spannel suffers you what

[00:34:47] five years and 16 million to go to LA and coach a team that's got a great young quarterback

[00:34:53] it there really is Tom Marcentum in a set to me because I didn't tell him once I didn't tell him

[00:34:58] twice I told him more than twice she might can't see any reason you would not come back what

[00:35:03] why you would come back to Ann Arbor where you have this opportunity and that's just the realities

[00:35:09] of it and when you look at where we are right now for different reasons you have Nick Saving

[00:35:15] and it's how writing in the book and we I really love the imagery at one point time you got one

[00:35:21] one coast the Atlantic Ocean Jim or Nick and his backyard and his 18 million dollars state looking

[00:35:27] at the Atlantic Ocean and he is retired from the game because he doesn't he can't control it anymore

[00:35:33] and on the other coast and he is mobile phone in Huntington Beach you got Jim Stair and to

[00:35:38] Pacific Ocean and he's not in the game anymore you have the two are able to singular figures

[00:35:44] in college football neither one of them in the sport this year coaching that tells you a lot about

[00:35:50] chaos and about the price that people are paying in this sport right now and you know say what

[00:35:57] you want but that's those are two huge money amount losses for the sport and they didn't leave

[00:36:03] on their own accord they got pushed out for different reasons yeah David let me ask you a question

[00:36:09] of you are a diehard fan of of all sports has in Europe big fan of chaos as well I mean

[00:36:16] is this the big fan of chaos has any of this lesson your passion for collegiate sports

[00:36:24] or are you more excited now because you think the system is changing I don't think it's

[00:36:29] lessened it I do agree with what Armin was saying was that there's there's certain you know

[00:36:35] the march madness there's certain things that are going to be what carry the NCAA

[00:36:41] but I mean I would it look at and say things like the extra playoff system right now in

[00:36:47] college football is something that it seems to make certain regular season games seem less important

[00:36:55] so there's there's things like that but the reality is none of this is kind of affected it when

[00:37:00] the games are on Saturday I'm going to watch them so I mean it's it's it's it's kind of hard to

[00:37:06] say that it's going to affect something down the road because you know you've got George at Alabama

[00:37:11] this weekend there's a bigger college football game in America I haven't seen one not really and

[00:37:16] you at USC and Michigan last weekend and those numbers are going up I mean that you add in sports

[00:37:22] gambling to this picture and the the $100 billion that was spent legally in this country sports

[00:37:28] in the year I think I'm the field the sport has never been better it's never been more exciting

[00:37:42] it's never been more passionate than what we witnessed on the weekends but it's never been

[00:37:48] more chaotic off the field so that's where you're these are two lines that they're just parallel lines

[00:37:55] right now then they're each of them has their own road at some point in time are they going to

[00:38:00] enter sex somewhere where or they just going to go like this and you're just going to go okay

[00:38:04] the sports over here but the college football playoffs to me when you have 12 teams now wait till

[00:38:10] we get to December you know and people are trying to figure out are they 12 or they 13 right now

[00:38:16] are they 14 or they 12 and then you know as we get down through that first and second round with a

[00:38:24] osteo to a semi finals in a finals it's going to be off the chart excited and on top of that

[00:38:31] with the emergence of these like new conferences that are coming out now we've got Michigan playing

[00:38:38] Texas USC Washington Oregon and Ohio State so it's not just usually these teams play one or two

[00:38:45] tough games during a season and now they then they play each other at the end now it's all like

[00:38:50] new big 12 the new SEC you've got the monster matchups every week so we I one of my favorite

[00:38:57] parts of the book and it's you know only because I kind of fell into it was raising Arizona

[00:39:02] a jet fish is rolling bringing the wildcats from a only one on 11 team that got blown out

[00:39:11] right before he got there they had lost 12 games in a row and their final loss with 70 to 70

[00:39:17] Arizona State in the territorial Cup game they just were annihilated. Jed comes in he goes 1 0 11 5 and 7

[00:39:25] and then 10 and 3 and he beats Oklahoma in the animal bowl and then what happens? Nick retired

[00:39:32] on Wednesday Kailin DeBours the new head coach in Alabama by Friday and on Saturday Jed is the new

[00:39:38] head coach in Washington in Seattle those dominoes were falling so fast and now Jed had who lost

[00:39:46] 20 of his 22 starters either to graduation or the portal is now trying to rebuild that husky program

[00:39:54] but he's on a big stage now they're playing the ruckers tonight in New Jersey and that has to

[00:40:01] me is just these are going to be heavyweight fights every weekend or again coming in USC UCLA

[00:40:10] as screwed up as it is in so many ways to watch a hundred and eight year old conference

[00:40:18] of conference champions imploded a matter of 72 hours okay they're now that wreckage is coming

[00:40:27] out and they're trying to figure out what those two new entities are going to be in the mountain

[00:40:31] west and in the pack 7 soon to be 8 in one way shape or form but you're right I mean these are

[00:40:38] this is Tyson Holyfielder you know Ali Wisdom behind a battle every week every week with huge

[00:40:46] huge importance and money on the line okay so our we're gonna yeah our let me just jump

[00:40:52] over a quick second I a couple of years ago I was driving through a very very small town in northern

[00:40:57] Michigan on my way to a TV shoot and I was pulled over by an older gentleman who had a self-made

[00:41:04] police car and a homemade uniform and I I learned later that he was just pretending he had no

[00:41:09] authority whatsoever they just called him old Joe and he was the guy who sort of tried to slow

[00:41:14] people down when they came through his little town the NCAA still wields some sort of authority but

[00:41:20] they feel more and more like old Joe like like what how do they still have the hammer

[00:41:27] to to do a show cause to do all these different things when they're clearly on their way out of

[00:41:34] an authoritative standpoint on the division one power five for sure why does anybody still listen

[00:41:42] to the NCAA? Well that's a great I mean that is that is some metaphor there old Joe

[00:41:49] I mean that shouldn't have been about writing a story I think I might just open a story with old

[00:41:53] Joe there inside of the world he was quite a genius it's have NCAA you know hang on the

[00:41:58] NCAA enforcement officer I just want to tell you it's slow down no I think in a lot of ways

[00:42:03] you're watching the last days upon a year okay this is um this is the that it could very well

[00:42:09] be the beginning of the end of this organization certainly as we have known it dating back

[00:42:15] certainly to the days of Walter Byers and again I go back to a lot of this is self-inflicted wounds

[00:42:22] so I don't know I think that's what's keeping Charlie Baker up at night for sure

[00:42:29] whether it's keeping great safety up at night or whether he's just watching those last days

[00:42:34] saying let's just kind of keep our cool here hold our power Tony Petiti mission or the big

[00:42:42] ten and let's this let's whatever's gonna happen here play out because nobody wants to be the one

[00:42:48] that pushes that button that's the atomic bomb button and because then fingers are going to

[00:42:53] get pointed oh it was the SEC that did this that was saying he that did this there's a lot of things

[00:42:59] going on in John's Haltes like oh there's give full credit to John he's a terrific

[00:43:06] reporter he reminds me a lot of a young me in terms of his obsessiveness and his contacts and his

[00:43:17] EC as well as anybody's now the big CBS National College Football writer and really was kind of our

[00:43:26] eyes and ears in the SEC and understand Sandy and understands the power brokers there and that's

[00:43:33] John sends a thing too is nobody wants to be the one that pushes the association off the cliff

[00:43:39] they're just kind of waiting for the courts and other people too to kind of kick them in the rear

[00:43:45] at this point in time but I think I think you're right I don't think as we sit here and

[00:43:51] again the September 2024 the end of September 2025 or 26 things are all very different

[00:43:58] I think and whether that's for the good of the sport or not I think as we were saying you know

[00:44:04] David as you were saying the sport is gonna survive it's just in what form and what fashion and

[00:44:10] framework and that just remains to be seen because I don't think anybody right now has come up with

[00:44:16] they you know the super idea yeah I have a follow-up question when I turn the conversation just a little

[00:44:24] bit I was traveling for work last week and I happened to be in the airport in Knoxville 10

[00:44:30] of C Thursday and my gate was I was flying to Dallas and my gate was full of people in bright orange

[00:44:37] getting ready to board a plane to head to Oklahoma because Tennessee was playing Oklahoma so I

[00:44:42] saw I got an conversation with one of the guys and I was like hey how often do you guys make this trip

[00:44:49] and he was telling me about his group of 20 or 25 folks older couples married head to toe right

[00:44:56] orange burn on it right the whole thing he's like we make one trip a year we pick a game on the

[00:45:01] schedule we all get our tickets when we make a weekend out of it and everything else and then

[00:45:05] everybody else heard our conversation and proceeded to communicate to me what Tennessee was planning

[00:45:11] to do to Oklahoma to welcome them to the SEC. They were they were loud and they were excited as we

[00:45:17] were waiting for our plane and then I ended up sitting by one of the guys on my flight and we had this

[00:45:23] amazing conversation where he's telling me about he went to Tennessee his kids went to Tennessee his

[00:45:29] grandkids are now at Tennessee and all these things and he was just talking about his love

[00:45:34] for the vows and for football and this tradition that they all had of traveling to an away game

[00:45:41] once a year and I'm thinking about your book and I'm thinking about my fandom and so my question is

[00:45:48] what advice would you have or fans who when they get older want to be like that guy right

[00:45:57] want to have not lost their love of the sport there was like something un-tainted about the way

[00:46:04] he talked about following his university and his love of football and everything else what advice would

[00:46:10] you have for all of us in such a place. I think that's a really good point I think that connection

[00:46:15] that passion that runs through generations is at risk right now because of money money money

[00:46:23] everybody all they're hearing about is money and you when you have when you can when you're a Tennessee

[00:46:29] fan and you know that depth chart right you know this sophomore quarterback the came in as

[00:46:38] of three star has been developed and you're seeing on the field and you're going oh man I can't wait

[00:46:44] till his junior year when he is going to be a stud for us or running back a wide receiver

[00:46:52] left tackle you name it and then all of a sudden right after spring practice when the portal opens

[00:46:59] that kid for no other reason well two reasons one he wants playing time right away and two

[00:47:07] he's being grown ants they're induced to go into the portal by either agent or another university

[00:47:14] knows how good this kid is and it's willing to pay up now and put him on the field now

[00:47:23] and then all of a sudden you're like at home going well what happened to John John was here now

[00:47:27] John's gone and now we got a new John and all wait a second they're asking me because I've been

[00:47:32] a fan of this university and I've been donating and maybe my names are a wall someplace or I've

[00:47:38] got something in the lock room that has me and my wife's name on it now they're coming back to me

[00:47:42] saying you know Mr Jones we need another $10,000 or in Tennessee's case we're putting a

[00:47:50] 10% searcher on your ticket in order to pay for the on-out program you run the risk of losing

[00:47:56] that connection and I don't know what I would say to a fan like that I think I think that in some ways

[00:48:02] these universities are really pushing the envelope and they are loyalty from their fan base

[00:48:11] yeah Tennessee Alabama Auburn sure job I mean those are flat Ole Miss even Mississippi State

[00:48:20] you know I know some people down in Florida who have some juice down there and they are losing

[00:48:26] their patients with both the AD and they had coach they have the NIM money 12 to 15 million that

[00:48:33] money's there but this guy sent to me and he's a very powerful guy he said it to me last weekend

[00:48:38] because you know what this isn't an annuity they're asking us to do this every single year

[00:48:44] and that gets old when you're looking at where we're looking at on the field right now so

[00:48:48] there's a lot of things in play I think I think universities can take their fan base for granted

[00:48:55] and just expect that that passion that you saw Paul is going to continue generation after generation

[00:49:02] and I would not be that optimistic right now so I don't know what I would say to a fan I would just say

[00:49:09] you know me this is the brave new world and you have to accept it you know i 95's more crowded than

[00:49:16] it's ever been I'm sorry when you get on the freeway you're just going to have to accept the fact

[00:49:20] that you're going to be in a traffic jam you know to me it's going to be one of those things

[00:49:24] and then then that when the rubber meets the road there so to speak and they ask me to

[00:49:30] donate to the university I might just say you know what I'm sorry I'm not this is a what I

[00:49:35] signed up for right season this isn't the program I want to be

[00:49:40] I want to represent me and I think there's a very good questions and those

[00:49:46] how often those questions are being asked right now within athletic departments is a really good

[00:49:51] question because I think in some of them they're not being asked enough yeah and we may see you know

[00:49:56] you may see some of these programs just go we can't compete anymore right and you have you

[00:50:02] have schools a smaller schools like Miami is a private school technically and yet they manage

[00:50:06] to get cam ward turn their entire season like yeah fortunes around I guess my my last question for you

[00:50:13] is is just personally do you prefer it with the curtain pulled back like it is or you kind of

[00:50:20] miss it the way that you start well journalistically this is a gold mine for John it was you know I like

[00:50:26] that this point of my career whether it was we didn't Jeff Benedict and I did the system

[00:50:31] and that was that was published back in 2013 that was a deep dive in a state of college football

[00:50:38] at that time and that was child's fake play compared to what we're dealing with with now

[00:50:43] and whether it was Tiger Woods or Billy Walters the gambler book world's greatest sports

[00:50:49] gambler for me and to stage in my life these big sweeping landscapes that I can play

[00:50:56] and with my reporting skills and the trust I've built up over time in certain places and use

[00:51:01] that trust to get access to get information that results in books like the price which I'm

[00:51:07] really proud of I think it's one of the best books I've ever done and John deserves great credit too

[00:51:14] journalistically storytelling wise it's it's it's a gold mine I probably know a little too much

[00:51:21] at this point but tonight if I have a chance I'm gonna watch Washington play at Rutgers because

[00:51:28] I really like Judge Fish and I'm a believer in what he's trying to accomplish and we had some very

[00:51:36] frank conversations about his decision to leave Arizona to go to Washington so

[00:51:43] will I spend my entire Saturday in front of the television no but I will be watching when

[00:51:48] George is at a bail I'm gonna watch that gate for sure because that's the kind of stuff that

[00:51:53] you know that's like big boy journalism that's a big boy college football and it's hard to take

[00:51:59] your eyes away from stuff like that absolutely so we we have to ask what's the next book in the

[00:52:05] view and we allowed to ask well it's actually it's an interesting question boy I was in the middle

[00:52:12] of doing the price and I interviewed Sunny the caro this chapter of an Imer in the abandon case

[00:52:19] and I'm not sunny for 40 years and Sunny I asked him because I know he'd been working on his memoir

[00:52:25] for a long time and I said Sunny what happened with the book and he said oh you know they sent it out

[00:52:31] and it came in it came out unfortunately they sent out the proposal right after air came out

[00:52:37] so math team and it played Sunny in here and all the editors being the editors and the publishers

[00:52:41] in New York sometimes how they think we're like oh no we know you're a life story because we just saw

[00:52:46] it on on the screen and it's really four months of Sunny's really remarkable life so

[00:52:51] we got to talking and I had a window from May, June, July, August of this year and I said well

[00:53:00] we've done and I read it I said well Sunny what you have and they sent me a hundred and there's

[00:53:06] amazing there's 156,000 words that was Sunny's life story and so what I was able to do was to take it

[00:53:13] and reformat it and redo it and hyper one bought it so it's a memoir of Sunny the caro that

[00:53:21] come out in it's called Legends and Souls it comes out a February of next year 2025 so that

[00:53:28] thankfully what I did call on those four months they didn't come back to me and go oh this is a really

[00:53:34] good first draft and I would have said no no that's the draft I might go on time but they really

[00:53:41] like it hyper one or like so I don't know what I'm gonna do next I have a lot of other I have

[00:53:46] a lot of things I'm interested in it just depends on if I'm gonna do something I kind of want

[00:53:51] to go in with both feet and whether it's a streaming thing or whether it's a book saying I'm not sure yet

[00:53:57] but I'm 71 years old and I still love to do what I do I get up every day I love telling stories

[00:54:07] I feel like I still have the firepower and the passion for it and so I'm just trying to next

[00:54:13] whatever the next thing is it'll be a big thing I think you know one way or the other

[00:54:20] but I don't know what that is yet. Armour we can't thank you enough for your time we want to honor

[00:54:26] that time I know you have lots of things going on especially as you talk about this book

[00:54:31] just one last question for me and then we will let you get on with your your day

[00:54:36] we've talked a lot about the money we've talked a lot about the chaos the disruption

[00:54:41] the there goes old share of Joe nature of the NCAA when's the last time and all of your

[00:54:47] conversations for this book or whatever else you're working on that you had anybody in a college

[00:54:53] level talk to you about the academic side of what these kids are doing like are they still

[00:54:58] going to class does anybody go to class ever is this is a complete room.

[00:55:03] I very rarely does the word class room or hallmark or I mean I remember when we did the system

[00:55:11] I was I asked the quarterback at Arizona State at the time I said how many weeks a year do you get

[00:55:18] off from and this was like in the 20 plus and 2012 how many weeks a year do you get away from

[00:55:26] college football and you put up videos five and get five weeks away with that's 40 I'm not

[00:55:32] great with math but that's 47 weeks for your focus and I would dare say now certainly with the coaches

[00:55:38] it's a it's 52 weeks a year it's 365 24 seven and that's unfortunate because the brown level

[00:55:45] is going to we haven't seen that yet that's still to come but you want shift Kelly leaves four

[00:55:50] million dollars on the table and you see a to go to Columbus Ohio to be the offensive coordinator

[00:55:56] and it's never been happier in his life he said you know because he doesn't have to deal with all the

[00:56:00] BS with the and I all in the portal and everything else so you know I think I think the academic side most

[00:56:10] of the a lot of these kids are taking classes online now I think that certainly encouraged

[00:56:15] basketball it's so it's a one semester and done you know they're in they do whatever they can

[00:56:21] is eligible for that one semester so they could play it to the next semester and then they're

[00:56:26] to the NBA they're really good players which is another joke yeah so I think I think right now

[00:56:34] it is what it is you know that they're doing everything they can to keep the kids eligible

[00:56:38] and I think at certain schools certainly academics is a pray warning because like if you're

[00:56:44] at Michigan a Michigan degree means something with that alumni base and out in the real world

[00:56:53] the the opportunity to network and come back to with that alumni base is almost second to none

[00:56:59] you could say that would probably it doesn't other schools as well so hopefully you know if you're

[00:57:04] getting a lot of money now between Cal Branch cost of attendance scholarships and I all

[00:57:11] money if you protect that money and are smart about that money and don't sign with agents who say oh

[00:57:19] we have your rights in perpetuity forever and see some of the stuff that's going on right now

[00:57:27] the kids get into the manager without the proper representation but you know I mean I think it's

[00:57:34] not kid or so this is some of the professional sport yeah big time and I think we can send it

[00:57:39] about that your your whistle in the wind I think we can sum it up by former philosopher cardale

[00:57:45] Jones of the Ohio State budget I ain't come here to play school yeah that's exactly right and

[00:57:53] you know when you have a 20 million dollar an I'll fund like the Ohio State does they got some

[00:57:57] I and Julie and say and is there now this quarterback that went to Alabama he's a choose a generational

[00:58:02] talent and how are believes I bet my bottom dollar the kid behind center next year is going to be

[00:58:08] Julian because he is a rock star he's a great kid and I think he's one of those kids that when you look

[00:58:15] and go you know what is the future of the NCAA look like as far as a student athlete is concerned

[00:58:21] if I was scrolling around looking for a face I would put Julian Julian's face on that poster

[00:58:29] because he's from a great family he's a great kid and you know Alabama's loss is a Ohio State

[00:58:35] gain as far as that's concerned. I remember that is not what this Wolverine fan needed to hear

[00:58:40] you say in an era where we have no quarterback right now but Paul's got to quarterback problem

[00:58:44] but he's so you got your bar stool boy you know he's in for three million so you know you're

[00:58:52] going to get yourself a quarterback there's no sign that no no two ways about that it is a wild west

[00:58:57] we knew when when you said that you were able to come on with this we knew it was going to be

[00:59:02] just a great conversation and it was thank you so much the book again is called the price what

[00:59:08] it takes to win in college football's era of chaos arman katee and a john toldy it's available

[00:59:14] everywhere books are found we'll have a link to it in the notes arman thank you. My pleasure guys

[00:59:20] thanks thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

[00:59:23] good job that was so much fun that is great and David you were you were jumping off the couch

[00:59:30] you were you were cheering you were like in a revival where the where the pastor was hitting

[00:59:34] everything you wanted him to say I mean that was that was pretty fun to watch just from from the zoom

[00:59:39] perspective. I mean they think about it like these things that I've been saying for how many years now

[00:59:44] and I've been on this podcast and he just came here and nailed it yeah that was fantastic I love it

[00:59:51] he was great yeah so much fun all right so we kept him a little bit longer than I kind of thought

[00:59:57] we were going to support I think we're at a jump ahead you've got our picks in place right we're all

[01:00:02] good with picks well good just to remind you for our listeners we have we have pretty high stakes

[01:00:08] in this picks competition for the year we learned I think two episodes ago that the hallmark

[01:00:17] channel had commissioned the Kansas City Chiefs to do a movie on the hallmark channel and so

[01:00:23] whoever finishes last in the picks pool has to watch that movie and then bring a review right

[01:00:32] that's the stakes and just let you guys know Carson Greenhorn myself our tie it in first right now

[01:00:38] David and Bill you guys are just one game back and then Brian Sharp I see you I hear you Brian

[01:00:43] you are in last place brother oh get your word you're being ready you can't forward through that

[01:00:47] movie either you got to sit there through every last second of it and good stuff let's wrap it up with

[01:00:53] three-minute message home or I'd like you to remember Matthew 7 26 the foolish man who built his house

[01:01:02] on sound and you remember Matthew 21 17 and he left them and went out of the city into Bethany

[01:01:12] and he logged there yeah think about it think about it okay one of the things we did not get to talk

[01:01:22] about with Armin was the recent resignation of Adrian Wojnorowski from ESPN talk about leaving

[01:01:32] money on the table right Woj left like a $20 million deal I think and I just wanted to read for us

[01:01:37] his little post that he put out on social media explaining why because it's so good he says

[01:01:42] I grew up the son of a factory worker two miles from ESPN's campus and only ever dreamed of

[01:01:47] making a living as a sports writer 37 years ago the hard for current gave me my first buy line and I

[01:01:52] never stopped chasing the thrill of it all this craft transformed my life but I've decided to retire

[01:01:58] from ESPN and the news industry I understand the commitment required in my role and it's an investment

[01:02:04] that I'm no longer driven to make time isn't an endless supply and I want to spend mine in ways

[01:02:10] that are more personally meaningful I leave with overwhelming gratitude for countless mentors and colleagues

[01:02:16] subjects and stories readers and viewers no one is benefited more than me from the belief trust and generosity

[01:02:23] of others and then he ends with his line after all these years reporting on everyone's teams

[01:02:28] I'm headed back to my own so I think if I have my information correct he's going to be the general manager

[01:02:33] of the St. Bonaventure men's basketball program which is his alma mater so good for him

[01:02:39] yeah the bodies and so good for him right and here's what got me thinking about general

[01:02:44] Berg who's one of my favorite pastors and authors and speakers talks about this how we are all trying

[01:02:51] to pursue balance in our lives and he says we shouldn't be pursuing balance he says we should

[01:02:57] be pursuing being well-ordered and the way he defines being well-ordered is doing the right things

[01:03:04] at the right times in the right amounts for the right reasons which is what Wode just did

[01:03:13] right Ecclesi s c's three one for everything there is a season in a time for every matter

[01:03:18] under heaven so I want to challenge everyone who's listening to this episode this podcast

[01:03:23] to own your journey this week this month this year and if there's any area of your life that is not well-ordered

[01:03:31] I challenge you to pay attention to that let's all see how we can pursue the right things

[01:03:38] at the right times in the right amounts and especially for the right reasons that's the challenge

[01:03:45] that I would love for all of us to take with us into our week that's really good really good stuff David

[01:03:50] thank you for being with us we knew we had to have you in this conversation

[01:03:55] yeah I'm glad I'm glad you twist my arm a little bit to get me on hey I need to be here for that

[01:04:01] every once in a while the two executive producers know what they're doing and that was gold so

[01:04:06] thanks and and again thanks to Armica Tane again folks the book is really really solid it's called

[01:04:12] the price what it takes to win in college football's era of chaos next week we'll talk baseball

[01:04:16] until then go to higers we'll see you next time on churchbeard sports