With the media focus being on the war in Israel, its easy to nearly forget their is still a war going on in Ukraine.
Societies, civilizations, and wars can never be fully understood without adding the context of belief. Religion and world view are always at the core. Ukraine and Russia are no different, even though their history is long and complex.
Ukraine is a nation with a rich tapestry of religious traditions and a history steeped in resilience. In this land, where faith has often been a source of unity and solace, it has also been a battlefield of beliefs, entangled with political, cultural, and national identity.
This episode explores how these deeply held beliefs have played a pivotal role in the ongoing war with Russia and seeks to understand the intricate connections between faith and the fight for sovereignty.
Ukrainian born and raised Yuriy Boyechko, Founder & President of Hope For Ukraine, sheds light on this topic.
hopeforukraine.net
becomingoutlaws.com
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Gathered among the outlaws, he said.
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Come follow me people from all walks of life sense and then
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becoming outlaws. Welcome to Becoming Outlaws.
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This is the podcast which engages celebrity scholars,
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diverse voices in different candid conversations about
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following Jesus, defying societal norms and exploring
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profound and often they're not very forefound.
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Sometimes questions of faith. We've got a a different one for
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you today. With all the news being on the
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war in Israel, it's easy nearly to forget there's still a war
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going on that's very serious in Ukraine.
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Society, civilizations and wars can never be fully understood
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without adding the context of belief.
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Religion and worldview are always at a core.
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Ukraine and Russia are no different.
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Even though their history is long and complex.
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Ukraine is a nation with a rich tapestry of religious
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traditions, history steeped in resilience in this land where
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faith has often been a source of unity and solace.
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It's also been a battlefield of beliefs.
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It's entangled with political, cultural and national identity.
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Our aim today at a high level is to explore how these deeply held
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beliefs have played a role, a pivotal role in the ongoing war
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with Russia. And we'll seek to understand the
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intricate connections between faith and this fight for
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sovereignty. And to help us out, we have with
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us the founder and president of Hope for Ukraine, Yuri Boicheko.
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Did I get it right? You know, I practiced and then I
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just stumbled on it. Sorry about that.
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Hey, thanks for joining me today.
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So this I'm, I'm kind of the naive Western here and not an
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expert in that part of the world and we see Russia.
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I'm speaking course on behalf of lots of people.
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They could maybe they are experts, I don't know.
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But a lot of us, you know, we know there's Russia, the
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surrounding countries, maybe think of Russia and the Cold War
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and communism and the bad guys in most of our movies.
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But the peripheral countries and Ukraine's not a nobody.
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I mean, they're their second largest in that area to Russia,
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I believe. And so we all know there's this
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awful war going on. But I I wanted you to help us
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understand what kind of what the opening was, is.
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What's the war about? What are the faith undertones?
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What's a little bit of history of Ukraine and the religious
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belief? And I think to start that off
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would be great to kind of hear your story, where you're from
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and how you grew up. Yes, thanks for having me, Ken.
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And I just, you know, as I look back, you know, I always bring
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me back to my childhood in Ukraine.
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So, you know, I was born when there was still a communist.
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So in the communist regimes you can practice religion, you can,
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you know, go to work, buy things, but everything is
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dictated by the state. And when I was six years old, my
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father who is Protestant minister, Bishop in Ukraine, he
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was taken and put to jail for three years.
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And one of the reasons and the main reason why he was placed in
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jail is because he would not comply with the state
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regulations on religion at that time.
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So basically the way it would work, is that OK, you want to
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open a church? You want to open Pakistan church
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or you know, whatever church you want to open, you have to go to
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the state. You've got to get the paperwork
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right and then they'll tell, OK, you know, this is what you need
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to talk every time you have a meeting.
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This is talking points, right? And the state-run churches
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basically would always have one of the KGB agents present there
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to monitor to make sure that you follow the script that they gave
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it to you. So they basically give you every
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week talking now, talking points, right.
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And since my father didn't want to oblige to these rules and
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regulations because he believed in freedom of religion, freedom
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of speech, you know he his church his ministry would not
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register with the stake. So me as a as a child I remember
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you know we didn't have we couldn't even have a meeting
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place like you cannot have a like a church in one place.
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So we would have a meetings every Sunday at a different
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houses. So this way you know if you have
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KGB agents who would follow us they would not know what would
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be the next meeting. So it's like right now when you
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when when you think about it sounds crazy but like you know,
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I I remember we used to live on a second floor apartment in
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center with Ukraine. And I remember on Sunday morning
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we would have a stream of these people coming up the stairs to
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our apartment. We have a pretty, not a big
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apartment, but you know we have 60-70 people cramped into the
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living room. So I remember my bedroom we
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would have because you know it used to be especially when it in
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the winter time we would have a pretty cold weather.
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So everybody would come in with his big jackets, hats and stuff
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like that. And I remember in my my room on
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my bed we would have a stack, this stall of just the jackets
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and and and hats of everybody who came to the service.
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And I remember so the the meetings would be in private
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homes and every Sunday there would be a different home that
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we would have to meet to make sure that you don't give, you
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don't have no KGB people coming in and shut you down and arrest
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everyone and all our neighbors. We thank God we had good
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neighbors, but they would always be very supportive, right.
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So you know when we will start singing like songs, you know,
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preaching and prayers, they would not report us to KGB and
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but in the end of the day that's why my father went to prison
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because of that. So, and it brings back to what's
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going on right now because basically what you see right now
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in Ukraine and even the way the churches and religion is
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operating right now in Russia, in order for you to stay, to be
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stayed open, you have to completely follow the state
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talking points, right. So there is no such thing as you
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can practice free religion. You know, if you want to stay
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open as a church, it has to be monitored by the state.
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You have to follow the policies and politics of the state.
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And then, you know, in Ukraine, when you look at the history of
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Ukraine, you know we were under Russian rule on the Soviet Union
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until 1991, right when we got, you know, freedom, independence.
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But you know at that time big part of Ukraine especially
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eastern side of Ukraine was a lot of folks would belong to
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Russian Orthodox Church. So in Russia Russian Orthodox
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Church is a state church. So basically whatever you know
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if if Russian regime, Russian President say you know what
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we're going to go and throw the nuclear bomb the Russian
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Orthodox you know the head they would they would bless and
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actually say you know what you can go ahead and do it.
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So basically it's it's completely you know controlled
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and and it's it's so and you know as the Russians Russian
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Orthodox Church was was you know was growing and stuff like that
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in Ukraine it also brought that that regime of it right.
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The policies that you know and and and and now once you this
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war started you know a lot of the you know spying a lot of
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propaganda were still infiltrate infiltrated Ukrainian society
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through through that arm of Russian regime which called a
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Russian Orthodox Church. So when I was six, I bring back
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to my, you know, my life. So my father was taken to
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prison. Then he was released and and
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then the war fell. The 1991 independence came in.
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So, you know, after the country's been, you know, under
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authoritarian rule for over 70 years, it takes long time for it
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to rebuild. But the freedom and democracy
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start to blossom. You know, churches start to, you
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know, be open up. And then there's been, you know,
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we've been independent for 30 years, right.
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And that taste of freedom of speech, freedom of religion is
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something that always been stuck in the throat of current
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president of Russia, which is Putin.
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And that's that that that that desire to be free and
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independent country was something was against his his
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desires and his wishes. So, and that's why this war,
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full scale war broke out in 2022 and it's going on for already
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almost two years because, you know, he wants Ukraine and to be
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under his influence. And Ukrainian people, their
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freedom loving, you know, democracy loving people, they
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don't want to go back and they don't want to go back to where
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we used to be, you know, because this is not a pretty life to
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live. You know, people who never lived
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under communism, they have no idea.
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You know, you know, I remember as a child, you know, I remember
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my parents, my oldest brother. You know, they would have to go
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and stand in line at like 5:00 in the morning and wait till the
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store opens to get the, you know, 2 gallons of milk, you
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know, So you got to go stand in line.
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So you know if you have Tuesdays and Thursdays, this is when they
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bring your bread, you know, like Monday and when this is when you
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can get the milk and it's like 1 truck a day.
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So once once they sell it out, the store closes and everybody
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goes home, you're going to the supermarket.
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There's only one type of product right?
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There is. So if everything is controlled
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right from what kind of clothes you can wear, what kind of car
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you can drive, who can leave the country.
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There is no such thing. Like people who are free, like
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when you it's like living, you know, it's living in prison, but
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prison without walls because in the end of the day it's
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everything is controlled by the by the government.
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So that's basically what it is the fight is about is is you
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know you know Putin and and and Russia trying to recreate Soviet
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Union and Ukraine is not going to sign off and not going to
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sign up for that basically. And that's why what you see
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right now is is definitely a fight between good and evil in
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on on a different level. So it's it's really, really
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complex, you know, to be to be quite frank.
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Yeah, Do I understand this? Right.
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So with the Russian Orthodox Church, it is not just in
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Russia, you know, it's in Ukraine and it would be, is this
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kind of a good comparison? If we are looking at Roman
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Catholicism, for instance, there's a Vatican, but then
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they're in charge of the churches in different countries.
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So if you have a Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine, it's
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being governed by Russia, which is being governed by the state
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of Russia. So then you have churches within
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your country being run by basically probably the
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government and is that causing conflict?
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Is there suspicion in those Russian Orthodox churches?
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Are they being attended or what's?
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What's the situation there? Yeah, I mean, that's basically a
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lot of propaganda and a lot of style that we see over the
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years. This was actually done through
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Russian Orthodox Church because just like back in the old days
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if you want to stay open you had to follow the script that you
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receive every week the same thing these you know Russian
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Orthodox churches and it's not only in in in Ukraine but also a
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lot of post Soviet countries. You know they have presence of
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these churches right. And basically the government
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using these Russian government using these these priests to to
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brainwash, to brainwash their parishioners with Russian
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propaganda and Russian. So it's it's it's a it's it's a
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state-run propaganda machine that uses religion as a cover up
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in the end of the day. That's why it's been you know,
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again, you got to understand that, you know in Ukraine
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there's so many different churches of many different
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religions, religion groups, right.
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You know, we have big Jewish population.
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We got, you know, Armenian, Armenian church.
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We got 7th Day Adventists, all kinds, right.
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And but but everyone you know but specifically that arm and
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that church if you could call it a church it's been used heavily
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by the government in order to to cause chaos cause in country you
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know splits and you know and and just push propaganda then day in
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and day out in order to sway the minds of the the believers to to
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you know so they need to follow you know whatever Russia says.
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So that's that's that's how it is.
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What would you say? I'm not expecting you have
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percentages off the top of your head, but in general, what's the
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predominant, predominant religions?
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Are they? Are they mainly Greek?
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Orthodox? You're Protestant.
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How large is that? Can't be very well.
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You were meeting in in communism in houses can't be very big.
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But has that it grown? Is it growing in Armenian?
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Our meaning here typically is Catholic.
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Is it the same? Pair.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So the two predominant religions now.
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So we have Ukrainian Orthodox, right?
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Ukrainian Orthodox Church that, you know, reports to to to to to
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Greek Orthodox. Then you have Catholics that you
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know report to Pope. Then you know, since the since
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the independence 1991, the Protestant movement has been a
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very big in Ukraine as well. So I mean I would say if you
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would, I don't know exact numbers, but I would say it's
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about like, you know, 30 percent, 30% Catholics, 30%
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Ukrainian Orthodox, You know, Russian Orthodox used to used to
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play a big part too, but now you know it's been, it's been wind
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winding down that footprint. I would like to say that.
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And then, you know, Protestants, I would say about maybe 1010 to
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15% of the entire entire mix of different religion groups.
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Yeah. And for those listening who
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aren't tracking with what the differences are, some people
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aren't sure even what Protestant is as far as.
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So I'm going to do a quick explanation.
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The best I know what you can correct me.
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But so you have orthodox is basically stems from Roman
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Catholic. Other than you don't, they don't
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see the Pope as the authority if my understanding's right.
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And then in both of those camps, what makes them different than
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Protestant, besides all the details of the way they worship,
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is they believe in Scripture along with church council as
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being equal. So sometimes it conflicts with
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Scripture, but it doesn't matter because the church decides is
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God's voice. It's kind of to me how I define
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Catholicism. And then Orthodox is kind of
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Catholicism, but without the leadership of the Pope.
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And then when it comes down to Russian Orthodox in Ukraine,
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Orthodox and all that, is that really just a separation of
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who's running it, which states running it?
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But it's pretty much the same belief system.
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Yeah, the same belief system is just who they report to.
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Yeah. And then Protestants, for those
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listening, would be those that do believe Scripture has all
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truth entailed and that salvation comes by faith alone
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and by no works. Where the other ones add on an
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adherence to a church organization as a mediator kind
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of between you, God and man. So there's like you, church and
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God, and Protestantism says no, it's you and God and divine
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revelation, divine intimate salvation, and that there's no
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more mediator because Christ is the mediator.
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Correct. Correct, Which then Protestants
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would involve all the denominations, which would be.
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Yeah, yeah. So it's I mean we got everyone
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Lutherans, you know we got the you know Pentecostals,
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Charismatics you know 7th day advantage.
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Yeah. So that's I think you know
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that's been the the biggest, the biggest growth we've seen is
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actually in Protestant moment. Which to me always is always the
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case. It's it goes along with the the
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freedom. If people find out that they can
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have a direct relationship through Christ to God, that's
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freedom. Freedom away from the rules and
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the rules aligns you to the rules of a church, which in
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these cases has been abused all through history.
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Even if that's the right or wrong path 'cause they're
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aligned to states. And from the beginning of
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Catholicism, the Roman Emperor made Roman Catholicism to align
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and control religion, because religion is powerful.
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Yeah. I mean you know that's why I
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like right now I mean you still you know you still find a lot of
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open air meetings in Ukraine like which is you know back in
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the 90s. I mean you've seen Crusades
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almost every weekend. You know it's just so when the
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wall falls down a lot of western missionaries moved in and and
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it's it's been you know it's been it's been awesome to see
00:21:00
how how the taste of freedom is changing society.
00:21:04
I mean, I know we still have a long way to go as a society
00:21:08
because, you know, there's always the talk about
00:21:11
corruption, this and that, you know, and I totally got it.
00:21:13
Because you know, once you once you have the society that's been
00:21:18
under oppression for so many years, you know, you give them
00:21:20
freedom and they don't really know what to do with that.
00:21:23
So you got to give it time. You know, you got to give it
00:21:27
time for them to get adjusted to be free, you know, and and be
00:21:34
make right choices. So that's why I think in the end
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of this war, when it's going to be finished, I I believe that
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Ukraine is going to be set on a different course.
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And you know, the mentality of people is going to be completely
00:21:51
changed. And I think in 1520 years from
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now, God willing, you will see Ukraine as a leading nation
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around the world as far as the freedom, as far as the liberty,
00:22:03
as far as the value of of of things that are eternal.
00:22:10
That's what I'm saying because the price that the price that
00:22:13
we're paying right now as a society is way too high.
00:22:17
And I think the corruption and all the stuff that we've been
00:22:21
experiencing in the past is going to be driven away because
00:22:26
of what the nation had to go through these past two years.
00:22:33
Under communism, which is basically an atheist philosophy
00:22:40
as far as if you put it under religion, it's more of, I guess
00:22:43
a world view. But but yet the Russian Orthodox
00:22:47
Church never went away. Why?
00:22:49
Right. I mean that was I was watching a
00:22:51
documentary and I know a couple decades.
00:22:56
Well, I watched it recently, but it was about a couple decades
00:22:58
back where under, well, a few decades, 'cause it's still under
00:23:02
communism, I believe. And people were hurting people,
00:23:08
not having enough to eat and starving.
00:23:11
But yet there was a billion dollar church being built, and
00:23:16
they're spending above that $12 million just on icons and
00:23:19
decorations inside the building. And it made me think, you know,
00:23:22
like not to judge other face 'cause you know, everyone goes
00:23:26
to where they're at spiritually and where their knowledge is at.
00:23:29
But to me, while people are starving in the street and
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you're building a billion dollar church in the name of Christ,
00:23:37
when New Testament teaches that the true religion is to help the
00:23:42
poor and help the widow. And you know, which is why IA
00:23:48
Protestant or the people that are actually being moved by the
00:23:55
Spirit realize that we are the church and that the sacredness
00:24:00
lives in US and it's to reach humanity.
00:24:02
It's not. But if you don't know that
00:24:04
you'll give everything you have, even to starving to death to
00:24:08
help pay for a pretty building that God says, you think I'm
00:24:12
contained in a building. It's almost insulting.
00:24:15
No matter how beautiful you make it.
00:24:17
I'm not going to dwell there. I may dwell in the people who go
00:24:20
in that building, or I may not, yeah.
00:24:24
But it's the people that seems. Beautiful.
00:24:27
Correct. That's why, you know, I'm a big
00:24:30
believer, in short, without walls.
00:24:33
And I remember when KHB agents were searching our apartment
00:24:41
before they arrested my dad. I remember like today it was I
00:24:45
was still little so I stayed with my with my grandma at home.
00:24:49
So when they came in you know, you know I'm I'm one I'm one out
00:24:54
of six right siblings. So all of my older brother,
00:24:57
sisters, they all were at school college, whatever.
00:25:00
And the thing that they look the most to find as evidence in our
00:25:05
home was trying to get all the Bibles out of the house.
00:25:12
And they use that the stacks of Bibles that my father sneaked
00:25:16
into the country from Western, from Western countries, That was
00:25:22
their main evidence when they did, you know, when they did
00:25:29
hearing to sentence him. And the prosecutor in his case
00:25:33
said, you know, I'm going to put Vasily into the prison and I'm
00:25:39
going to put a lost Bible found in his home in our museum.
00:25:45
And then this is going to be the end for Protestant movement.
00:25:50
So that's just shows you to, you know, like we didn't have no
00:25:57
church building at that time, right.
00:26:00
We didn't have no structure per SE, like, you know, boards this
00:26:03
and that. But I think at that time that
00:26:05
the church was stronger than ever because you know, they just
00:26:10
relied on what they have read in the scriptures and they try to
00:26:15
live based on what they have. And that's why I think, I think
00:26:20
the church is coming back to that place.
00:26:22
You know, where you know it's all going to be about us going
00:26:28
out there and showing Christ through our work, how we help
00:26:35
and how we shine in the middle of the darkness in this.
00:26:40
It's not about billion dollar buildings and and structures
00:26:44
because in the end of the day it's all going to stay here.
00:26:49
Eternal is what we're going to take with us once we go to
00:26:53
heaven. It's based on how we and how
00:26:56
many lives we have impacted while while on this earth.
00:27:00
When the COVID-19 hit and there was a big to do about the state
00:27:08
here being dictating that people couldn't go to church because
00:27:13
they couldn't be in the proximity of 6 feet of other
00:27:15
people, some people accepted it, You know, eventually they
00:27:20
pivoted to online services. But there was a big to do in the
00:27:24
Protestant evangelical world is the state can't tell us what to
00:27:28
do, We can go to church if we want to.
00:27:32
And outside of that debate, I thought no matter what causes
00:27:37
it, if the state comes down and doesn't let Christians gather in
00:27:42
buildings anymore, unless it's a state controlled religion may be
00:27:45
the best thing that ever happens to the West because it'll put us
00:27:49
back into who's really following Christ, Do you think it's that
00:27:53
building? They were so tied to their
00:27:56
buildings? And I get it because it's become
00:27:58
business. They have salaries to pay, they
00:28:00
have bills to pay, but they acted like it's do or die.
00:28:05
We can't have services without this building.
00:28:09
And I thought the early church never did.
00:28:11
And it's places like you're talking about that grow and
00:28:14
explode and have revivals because you do have KGB.
00:28:21
It used to be the Romans at one time.
00:28:23
It could have been the Nazis or could have been whoever, but it
00:28:25
may be in the US It's going to be our own government that you
00:28:28
can't have a Bible and you can't meet in places or whatever.
00:28:31
It'll be the best thing that ever happened to us if we're
00:28:33
huddled in homes because it'll weed out, you know, the real and
00:28:39
the not real. And it becomes real.
00:28:42
They'll realize the church is here.
00:28:44
Wherever we bring the church into that building, we don't go
00:28:47
to church. Yeah, I mean listen is you know
00:28:52
we work right now in Ukraine with over 100 different
00:28:56
volunteering groups and you know they go and they bring aid and
00:29:04
help to a lot of people on the frontline, right.
00:29:07
So the kind of miracle they have been experiencing, you know,
00:29:11
where, you know I was listening to, I was talking to one of our
00:29:15
volunteers. He and he was telling like right
00:29:19
when the in the like first two months of the full scale war,
00:29:24
you know, they were driving from Western Ukraine, bringing aid to
00:29:30
Mariupol city that's already right now under Russian patrol.
00:29:36
And they, you know, they, they got a call.
00:29:38
They have only 45 minutes to get to the city before it's going to
00:29:41
be circled by Russian forces. And he was telling that, you
00:29:45
know, they come to this, to this road on top of the mountains, on
00:29:50
their van and as they about to drive down, they see on the side
00:29:55
a Russian tank right right there.
00:29:59
And then they were just like praying, saying God make us
00:30:03
invisible so we can get through this road because they could not
00:30:07
come back already because and The funny thing he says that as
00:30:13
they were passing, you know, felt like the the tank didn't
00:30:18
even see them. You know it just so there's so
00:30:20
many miracles how, how you know when you take all all that
00:30:25
nonsense away, right? And you only depend on God and
00:30:28
his sovereignty, you know, the way he does things.
00:30:32
And the reason why, you know, Ukraine, Ukraine still stands is
00:30:37
because it's a miracle, you know, because in the end of the
00:30:40
day, it's like a David versus Goliath.
00:30:46
You know them, you know. Russia always dubbed themselves
00:30:49
at the 2nd Army of the world you know And when you look back you
00:30:55
know Western aid was not coming into Ukraine until to like May
00:31:00
or June of 2022. So that first 5-6 months us
00:31:06
standing against Russian army, it was nothing but the miracle
00:31:11
that that you know I do believe that angels were fighting on
00:31:16
behalf of Ukrainian soldiers to to hold that back because
00:31:22
otherwise right now there would be no, no Ukraine as a nation,
00:31:27
as a sovereign nation. Yeah, so you you started to say
00:31:32
what hope for Ukraine does, explain a little more on the
00:31:36
scope of it, 'cause it's large, how long it's been around and
00:31:40
what you've accomplished and and how could people help if they're
00:31:43
interested? Yeah.
00:31:46
So we've been on the ground since 2016.
00:31:49
We we've been handling a lot of medical support projects,
00:31:54
helping families with food kits. It was housing and then when the
00:32:01
war, full scale war started in in in on February 2022, we've
00:32:07
just been completely overwhelmed by the amount of requests.
00:32:14
So we right now at the present time we we run one of the
00:32:18
biggest feeding programme in Ukraine.
00:32:22
So we're providing about 1500 foot kits to families each week
00:32:27
where you know the foot kit can feed the family of up to four or
00:32:32
four or four people up to seven days.
00:32:35
We also run a refugee centre in in live Ukraine where the
00:32:42
families who flee war war zone can find a temporary shelter
00:32:49
while we work with our partners and volunteers trying to find a
00:32:52
permanent home. And also we involved in a lot of
00:32:57
educational projects, children projects, trying to give some
00:33:02
hope for children who are suffering right now in Ukraine
00:33:05
by giving them, giving them access to to good after school
00:33:10
programs so they can get their mind away from what's going on
00:33:15
around them and just be children and just enjoy things like
00:33:19
children would normally do, paint, draw, play with their
00:33:24
friends. So that's our three main things
00:33:29
that we involved in Ukraine right now.
00:33:32
Yeah, and once again, this faith isn't about well, it doesn't
00:33:40
exclude, but fancy buildings and putting all of our money into a
00:33:43
shiny building are True. Religion is helping the kids
00:33:49
without parents putting food in people's stomachs and taking
00:33:53
care of widows and making sure people in need have what they
00:33:56
want. So I appreciate your work.
00:33:58
And where could People website be the best place to find out
00:34:03
more? Yeah, you can go to our website
00:34:07
hfu.org. You can always find us on
00:34:10
Instagram, Facebook for Ukraine, Yeah.
00:34:14
So if you want to learn more about what we do, you can.
00:34:18
On our website. We have a daily impact page,
00:34:22
which I think is pretty unique for nonprofit, where we let
00:34:26
people know every day exactly what's happening on the ground
00:34:31
and how the funds are spent, who's been helped.
00:34:34
So it's a very good resource for anyone who wants to know exactly
00:34:39
what are the needs and how those needs are being met and they can
00:34:44
go there. Every day there is new content
00:34:46
to to check it out. Great.
00:34:50
All right. Well, thanks for your insights
00:34:52
and the work you do with Hope for Ukraine and for coming on
00:34:55
today. Thank you so much.
00:34:58
Thanks for having me. Counted among the outlaws, he
00:35:01
said. Come follow me people from all
00:35:05
walks of life sense and then becoming alloys.