NEW EPISODE: Shaped Notes w/ Larnelle HarrisHow do we influence those around us in their life's journey? Are we grateful for those who have helped mold us into who we are today?Gospel Music Legend, Larnelle Harris, shares how various people in his life were instrumental in shaping his faith and career. www.larnelle.comwww.becomingoutlaws.com
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Counted among the outlaws, he said.
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Come follow me. People from all walks of life
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since have been becoming outlaws.
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Larnell Harris has achieved 5 Grammy Awards, 11 Dove Awards,
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three of which were for Male Vocalist of the Year, 19 #1
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songs and inducted into four Hall of Fames 4.
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Two being the Gospel Music Hall of Fame for himself, and one
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2014 more recently as a member of the Gaither Vocal Band.
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Many other accolades, it'd be a whole program.
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He's just basically a legend in gospel music.
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A few years back, Lornell came out with a memoir, Shaped Notes,
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How Ordinary People with Extraordinary Gifts influenced
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my life and career, and I really appreciated the angle of this
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memoir. Memoirs are meant to be me,
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focused basically, you know, about themselves, their life,
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their autobiography. This was, but it was really his
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story told by how others stories of others in his life, how
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impactful they were and how they made a difference in his life
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and career. So I wanted to talk with him
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about that and how we might play a role in someone else's
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God-given destiny, and we may not even know it.
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They may or may not write about it one day.
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Not everyone writes a book or gets it published.
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And also to reflect and appreciate those who have helped
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shaped our own lives. Welcome learn now.
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Thank you, Ken. And you know I'm just another
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outlaw dude. You know that's right.
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And and 1:00, because some ordinary people, and I'm I'm not
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sure we hit it with that title. You know, the Bible says that we
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are fearfully and wonderfully made.
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So these folks who are doing the interpretation here, point
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preaching. These people who we see as
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ordinary, have allowed God to influence their lives such that
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they have extraordinary gifts to influence the life of others.
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I was at a basketball game the other night and I talked to a
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young lady who was going to a church and she said the greatest
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thing about this church, that the ministers and the leadership
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of that church were helping her find what her gifts were and she
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was beginning to to exercise those and and and you said it
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right in your introduction and these are these are this is my
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story but it is my story about others like like Miss Miss
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Margaret in the 1st grade man. I had already mapped out my
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life. I knew what I was going to do
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and I knew that Miss Margaret was going to be a part of it and
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I would not leave her class. I was not I was not going to
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leave. I love that woman and and I
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wasn't going to leave. So she and the principal and
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some other teachers and my parents put together this little
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vignette to to to get me to leave that class.
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And and and I look back on that and Miss Margaret was one of
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those ordinary people who had extraordinary gifts and she was
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not going to allow me or anyone else in her class not to succeed
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and not to move on. And boy I I've always remembered
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that. And so this book is about those
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kinds of people, people who you know, I would not be here were
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not for mom and dad. You know, I I got to tell you,
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and I think probably most, most kids think this, that they're
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smarter than their parents. And my mom, who didn't finish
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the third grade, I just knew I was smarter than her and
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everything. There are many things that she
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would say. And she said no a lot.
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I talked to another lady the other night and she said, you
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know, my mother never said no to anything.
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Boy, I said how unfortunate is that?
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My mom said no to a lot of stuff and she said yes to a lot of
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things. But what I learned from this old
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lady who didn't finish the 3rd grade and my dad who didn't
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finish the 8th grade, The things that I learned about life from
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them are far greater than any education that I could ever have
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imagined. St.
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Smarts. Yeah.
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Yeah, How do you know, Larnelle, what your gift is like?
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For instance, you knew at a young age that you had a a
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gifted tenor voice, but you were just a kid.
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But looking back, did you know that?
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Or did it take other people to say, hey Larnell, you have a
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gifted tenor voice? Do we need to listen to what
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people are saying about and do people tell us what our gift is?
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You know, I think that we are guided.
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God orders our steps and he guides us to people who may not
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have any idea that they are doing what they're doing.
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You know what I mean? They have no idea that they are
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influencing you. They just love you, care for
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you. Like like Miss Georgie.
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I talked about her in the book. Miss Georgia Dunnehigh was a
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lady that I took piano lessons from.
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And at about 8:00, 7-8 years old, she found out that I could
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carry a tune. And she, along with the piano
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lessons, she started to take me to various places to sing.
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I hated that, and I didn't want to do that at all.
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OK, so but she wouldn't quit. And she just kept what I call
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needling was loving. And she just kept loving me.
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And she would go to my mom and she would say things, you know,
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like you shouldn't let Lornell play any sports.
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That's, you know, where he's going to be exposed to the dust
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because that will hurt his voice.
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And another, another mark on the wall, another reason to get away
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from Miss Georgie. It was under Miss Georgie that I
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did my first concert at nine years old in our church and
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saying things like how great thou art and the Lord's Prayer
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and those things, this little, this little kid, you know
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singing these high notes. It was a very popular thing with
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the kids my own age but she loved me and did she know
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anything? I I I really believe that she
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and Mr. Summers I got into a fight one day with another kid
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that about singing and and Mr. Summers was our principal at
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Bate high School and I and in those days they could spank a
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kid. You know, when you had, when you
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ran into trouble and on my way home, I would see my dad heading
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toward me and I would probably get another spanking or more
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discipline. And I, he took me into his
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office and I thought it was going to get a spanking.
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And you know what he did? He sang and this old football
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player had the most beautiful high baritone voice.
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And what he was saying to me is Lornell, this is cool, this is
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OK You know, don't do not sweat this.
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And if you will sit still long enough and listen hard.
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We here at Bay School where I thought I had a bunch of
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teachers. They were really a bunch of
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grandmas, grandfathers and sisters and uncles and aunts who
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really cared about me and and the kids.
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If you will not sweat this and lean into it, we're going to You
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may do something with this someday today.
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I just don't want you to fight. So yeah, I believe that there
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are people who in some cases know what your gift is or you
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know and then there are some people who think they do.
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That's the reason why we have the Holy Spirit and and we ruled
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stuff in that we can use and we get rid of stuff that we can't.
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And that is a work of the spirit in the individual life.
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I believe that. But I do believe that there are
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people who say who who just love you and care for you and and do
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what we did, what Mitzi and I 52 years now, what we did with our
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kids, we created a place where they could grow like a cradle,
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OK. We created this clock price and
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we put them in it and in and in that cradle, they could make
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mistakes, they could fall. They could, you know, experiment
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with their lives, but our job was simply to help them be what
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it is that God called them to be.
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And that's what I believe all of these folks in this book did,
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did for me. And I wanted.
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I think part of the onus for writing this was simply to say,
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you know what? I didn't get it then, but I sure
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thank you now. Yeah.
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Well, that's kind of what I was going to ask you next as when
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did you have that epiphany? Did you appreciate it as people
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were pouring into your life? Is it more of a later life
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retrospect to look back and see where you, where you've come and
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how you got there? Oh, I think that there is a
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point and I think it came from me in high school when you know,
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I played basketball and was a pretty good player.
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But I was also student conductor of the choir and met no boy by
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the by the name of Macaulay Arthur who was our band director
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and chord director And and I think it was about that time
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that I began to that it was it started to come together.
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You know I'm from Danville, KY little town and we did not know
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about the Vienna's boys choir. You know, that was to think that
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we talked about. But I think that there's a time.
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It's just like someone who plays basketball and has a basketball
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in his hand all the time. My dad was in the cold business
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and he built a little office Outback of the house and he put
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my drums in it. See, I play drums before I start
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singing. And man, I everybody, all of the
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other kids were out doing whatever they were doing.
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And I'm certain that some of it was constructive, some it was
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just kids play. Larnell was in that shack
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beating on these drums because Max said because I was drummer
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in the marching band and he saw something in me.
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And he said, you know what? If I get you a teacher will you
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will you practice? I said get one.
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And he got a guy that was going to center College in Danville
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and he taught me to read. I couldn't read.
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I had a good ear but I couldn't read.
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And he taught me to read. And he started giving me these
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books with all these paradidmals and and rattle, accuse and all
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this stuff and these notes and one and two and three and
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understanding this nomenclature for the first time in my life.
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And I started to go through these books and I scared this
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guy to death because after about two months he said there's
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nothing else I can teach you. I was that hungry.
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And I think it probably was about that time that I started
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thinking I'm going to college. I didn't.
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I hadn't thought much about that.
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And MacArthur man took me in his car to several colleges to look
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around to audition. I had no thought about college
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and and I ended up at Western Kentucky University as on full
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scholarship, music, scholarship, drumming, you know, playing
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drums and singing. And I think it was about that
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time. You know, now I'm in college,
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I'm 18 years old or so now it's about time that you begin to,
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you start thinking about what it is you're going to do in life as
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an 18 year old. You're still a kid and you're
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still trying to figure some things out.
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But boy, I think it was at that time that when I saw my mom and
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dad drop me off at that dorm and start to drive away, that was
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more than them dropping me off at college.
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My mom later, my my dad later told me, said your mother was
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saying go, go back and get it, go back and get it.
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And my and my father was saying no with tears in his eyes.
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If we go back and get him now, he will never amount to
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anything. We will interrupt what it is God
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is doing in his life and we cannot do that.
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And tough love. Tough.
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Well, it was tough love, but it was boys.
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Very intuitive thinking. You know the poetry of that him
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driving them, driving off me standing there watching the car,
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wishing that I could go with them because I've never been
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away from home, never been away from them, and now they're
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driving off. I am here.
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Now it is time for me to figure this out, how to be a grown up
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and what I am going to allow God to do in my life.
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Man, that's I hadn't thought of that before.
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Never said it. Yeah, you grew up in, as did I
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in Christian Church around Christian people, Christian
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songs, as you know, that doesn't make you a Christian.
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I was just listening on YouTube, actually.
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I was watching and listening to you sing with the Gathers in
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some. I don't know what it was, but it
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was a big venue gathering. And you're singing eyes, eyes on
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the Sparrow, totally anointed. Someone can sing a gospel song,
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and then somebody can sing a gospel song.
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So I bring that up to say, somewhere along the line, your
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faith became real to you. You can be raised in a church
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and as you mentioned, pouring into learning, like drowning
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yourself and how to play the drum.
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I mean, I sense from you that at some point you had a spiritual
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awakening like that. Is that true?
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You could not be more right on. And I had graduated from
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college. Listen, I get this.
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I did my first. I joined church when I was 12.
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I did my first concert at nine years old.
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You asked me about Christianity and I had all the stuff in my
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hip pocket. I could tell you all about it,
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but I could not remember a time when I asked Christ to come into
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my life. In walks a guy by the name of
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Stan Morris, who was a professional musician that I met
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in Detroit when I went to audition for a group called the
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Sperlos. And they were young world groups
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traveling all over the country, a group that was put together by
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a guy by the name of Thurlos Spur.
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And he was, he had a vision for Christian music to be
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traditional, you know, but, you know, it could be other things.
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It could be, it could sound like pop music.
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It's it's you know just to open up the venue.
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When I met Stan Morris and I went to an audition camp in in
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in Detroit of the Spurlos, Stan was their Ranger and he he asked
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me in during one of those down times of from rehearsal.
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Larnell, you say you're Christian.
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What is it that you tell me about that?
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And I started telling him all the stuff I had in my hip
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pocket, you know, about Christianity, what it was about,
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you know, as a 12 year old. And he said, you know, that's
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all very nice, but can you remember a time when you asked
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Christ to come into your heart? I could not remember that.
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And so it was to Stanmore's in Detroit, MI, that I asked Christ
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to come to my heart. Then at that point, because I
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was just about to graduate from college, I didn't know if I
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wanted to be in the group or not.
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I said, you know what? If God wants to be here, then I
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will be. If if not, I'll, I'll be
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teaching school. That's what my degree was in his
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education. And I said, you know what, boy,
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this this is really a life change.
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Because now I understand that to be a believer in Christ by faith
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one asked him to come into your heart and to live within you,
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and not just to be there, but to direct life.
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And now I have to see what it is he wants me to do.
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So yes, one can have all of the nomenclature in their hip
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pocket. Go to church all your life,
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Gyrus. Who was good to the Jews?
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He built the synagogue and when his when his daughter was sick.
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When his servant was sick, he called on Jesus to go and and
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heal and heal him. If you go back and read that
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story, it's a great story. The point of bringing that up is
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that Jesus made a difference in his servant's life.
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Not because Jairus was good to the Jews or that he built a
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temple. It was because of his faith and
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man, I'm I'm so thankful that that I met someone in this line
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of people. You see, this is a succession, a
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line of people who spoke into my life and at just the right time,
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God put stand right in my face and I couldn't get away from it.
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As a believer, we usually grow the most during questionable
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times or seasons of fear or hardship or not knowing the way
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forward. Is that true in your life?
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Did you ever have a season where, out of desperation, you
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ended up growing the most? Boy, did I I I lost my voice.
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I was on the road with this group called the Sperlos.
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We were doing driver education safety programs for the Chrysler
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Corporation and we would sometimes do two and three
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programs a day. And then we would, because we
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could not give our testimonies in the daytime programs in
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schools, we would invite those kids to our night time concert,
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which was called the Splendor of Sacred Songs.
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Boy, back in the day And and the kids would come to a church that
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that we would be singing where we'd be singing and playing our
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music and we would be able to give our testimonies.
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And that's a lot of singing. And I got to the point where my
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endurance was just shattered. I was a voice major in school,
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so I knew exactly what was going on and I could sing two or three
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songs and my voice would go. Finally went to a doctor and I
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had nodules on on my vocal cords and who had had done some
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recording and the doctors would listen to the recording and
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would say stuff like I'm not sure you're going to be
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everybody to do that again. And around that time I got off
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the road and I came home and I was sick and anemic and and
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shattered from a spiritual point of view.
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And I'm a little angry because I'm thinking that I'm doing what
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I'm supposed to be doing with my voice.
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And here you're going to allow it to be taken.
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What is, what is that about? And it wasn't until after bath,
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after bath of Scripture, just reading the Bible and being in
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it and and reaffirming my faith. It wasn't until I got to the
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point where I could say, Lord, if you are going to allow my
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voice to be taken and not saying you must have something awfully
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good coming. And he did.
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He restored it and left me with something that a phrase that I
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never forgot. I don't know where I read it, I
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don't know where I saw it. But it says this We have the
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opportunity to put ourselves in the place where God could do his
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work in our hearts and in our lives.
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And I think that I needed to understand that I was not going
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to make a life because just because of singing, but because
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of faith. Right.
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I have a couple places outlined in your book that I liked and
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one specifically I highlighted because I really I liked it.
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God is certainly not color blind.
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Can you explain that? Well, I think the phrase is, and
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it has to be explained, that God is as color blind as he could
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be. Now, we're not talking about
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race here, We're talking about and He's color blind there too.
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But he it is unfathomable to me. Unfathomable.
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Let me get that out that any one person thinks that they are
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better than someone else. God made us all.
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I think we started this way. Extraordinary people with
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extraordinary gifts who often are seen as ordinary but made in
00:23:13
the image of God. And I just, you know, I have my
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times of being angry at the world for how it views people of
00:23:27
other races. I've had those times myself as I
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have looked on someone and thought something negative.
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But being a believer has caused me to brought me to a place and
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it is an ongoing work because the scripture says when this
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fathomable becomes unfathomable. You know what?
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So this is these these processes are ongoing, but when I can see
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people as not as they are but as they can be.
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Right. All right.
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I have a pop quiz for you. Don't don't be nervous.
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You know the answer. People listen may not know the
00:24:18
answer. You ready for this?
00:24:20
All right. Go ahead.
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Yeah, here it comes. Where do I have it?
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Hold on. OK, there we go.
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What do the following people have in common?
00:24:35
Marnell Harris, Marlon Brando, Walter Cronkite, Hugh Downs,
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Barry Goldwater, Joe Walsh, Ronnie Millsap.
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I love Ronnie Millsap, Chet Atkins, Burl Ives, Patty
00:24:50
Lovelace and others. You know what?
00:24:54
Yeah, ham radio. And when you mentioned, Yeah,
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when you mentioned Ronnie, I got it and and I knew some of the
00:25:01
others too. Ronnie and I have actually
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talked on the air in a medium called amateur radio.
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And you study and get a license and it's a great hobby.
00:25:14
And I've been in there for many, many years and QST magazine that
00:25:20
has a readership of probably 7 or 800 in this country and
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maybe and the others just did another a second interview and
00:25:31
featured in in that magazine And it it it has just been a
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wonderful way of getting away from things and everybody kind
00:25:44
of needs a break, you know. And for me it has been just a
00:25:49
wonderful way to communicate. I do it through CW, which
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actually means continuous wave, which means Morse code, so I can
00:26:01
copy Morse code in my head in 30-40 words a minute And so get
00:26:04
on the air and talk with someone and share with someone.
00:26:08
And I have friends all over the world, a little transmitter and
00:26:13
an antenna. And I've always been.
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I've always been so enthralled about antenna to antenna
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communications and it's been just a great hobby for over 40
00:26:24
years. That's so funny.
00:26:26
The younger generation, they think social media is new.
00:26:28
You got ham radio. I was into CBS when I was
00:26:32
younger. I was two, yeah.
00:26:35
I think my handle was the Hulk, but I was a kid, you know?
00:26:39
My neighbors go ahead, go ahead. What I was going to say even in
00:26:43
high school, I had ACB in my red Pinto big antenna.
00:26:48
It was almost as big as the car, you know, big antenna on the top
00:26:51
to talk to my friends on the way to school.
00:26:53
Well, I tell you, that's how I got into the hobby through CB
00:26:57
and I sang at A at a pastor's church up in Ohio and he, he saw
00:27:03
that antenna on my car and he looked in there and saw that
00:27:07
radio, a single side band, you know exactly what that is.
00:27:11
And yeah, probably. And he said, you know, if you
00:27:15
enjoy this, come into the house. And I went into his house and
00:27:20
presentation is everything, you know.
00:27:23
And he flipped on a light switch and all of these lights came on
00:27:27
this this ham station and I was hooked and I started to study
00:27:32
but to get my amateur radio license and now I'm an extra
00:27:36
which is the highest you can get.
00:27:38
I don't know a whole lot about electronics, but but I I was
00:27:43
able to study enough to get my license and and again it's just
00:27:47
a great hobby and I'm glad to to talk to a fellow CBR.
00:27:51
Yeah, that's right. It's been a long time just to
00:27:55
end on that. If there is a national
00:27:57
emergency, why are ham radios so important?
00:28:02
Well, they're important because we have something called field
00:28:06
Day where ham radio operators go out into the field and set up
00:28:11
using battery power, you know, equipment and can still
00:28:18
communicate around the world. And let's say for instance, I'm
00:28:23
in Louisville, KY and they have a an event somewhere in New
00:28:28
Orleans. Well, I can provide
00:28:31
communications to that area and surrounding it because I'm not
00:28:36
there if if the towers are down, if if, if the cell phone towers
00:28:42
are down and there's little communication in that area.
00:28:47
I can do health and welfare and all of that to check on people
00:28:53
because I'm not in the disaster area and ham radio reaches
00:28:58
around the world. Wow.
00:29:01
So if there was a disaster and we pull out our ham radio and
00:29:05
you're out there giving us information, you know, how do we
00:29:08
know it's you? You have a handle.
00:29:10
I have AI have a call handles that are in CB.
00:29:14
My call is whiskey. You're a true CBR.
00:29:19
It's WD4LZC. That's my amateur radio call and
00:29:24
and that's why you don't. Do that Morse code do you?
00:29:27
Yes, Sir. In fact, I I don't do.
00:29:30
I very rarely talk on a microphone on a ham radio.
00:29:34
It's mainly all Morse code. Can you sing?
00:29:38
The Morse code. Is that how you got in the Hall
00:29:40
of Fame? That help?
00:29:44
Counted among the outlaws, he said.
00:29:46
Come follow me. People from all walks of life
00:29:50
since have been becoming outlaws.