Lev is currently a Senior Supervising Producer for America's Got Talent Season 17. He was always skeptical of modern-day demon possession, until an encounter in an L.A. laundromat.
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Back in 2010, I just moved to Los Angeles.
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I was working as a PA on the show so you can dance and I was
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living in this house. I was working as a production
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assistant first, I think I could dance.
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I just come out to Los Angeles for the summer to work on this
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show. So I'm staying in this apartment
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that was like with three other people, it was Tiny.
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She had no laundry room. So I have to do my laundry at
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this laundromat down the street. So there's just one day that I
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was down. I was like, you know, late at
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night because I had just gotten off work, so it's probably 7:00.
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7:30, I go to this laundromat with all my clothes and I'm
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sitting there and loading stuff into this washer and dryer.
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And as I'm sitting there, I hear this voice coming from next move
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from the person next to me, and it doesn't sound like a normal
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voice. So, it gets my attention.
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So, I look over and I see this girl and, you know, fairly well,
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dressed, girl, just doing her laundry.
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She's got a load of, you know, loading in her whites into the
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into the washer. And as she's loading them in,
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She's just putting stuff in and she's just like, well that's not
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right now. And then just and then just
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keeps putting stuff in the wash and it just like stops me in my
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tracks. I just like, I look over and I'm
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just like the hairs on the back of my neck are like going up and
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I'm watching her and I'm like, what was that?
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And I try not to like just stare.
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So I keep loading my clothes in and I'm like, like, what is
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happening over there. So she's keeps doing stuff and
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probably Like 10 to 12 seconds. She's just like is that one you
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or like just ask something like no I don't think so.
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And I was just like oh my gosh like this girl is acting as if
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she's you know what, I would picture someone to act like if
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they were demon possessed and now you know growing up in the
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church, you hear the story, you know you read the stories in the
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Bible and you here Stories told about people who are possessed
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by demons and Jesus casting them out and things like that and you
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know at like growing up and having never come across anyone
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who was demon possessed. It was one of those things that
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I was like, is this still something that exists like
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today? You know, it's something that I
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was always a little, like, I wouldn't say skeptical, like, I
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didn't believe it was in the Bible, but it was one of those
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things where I was like, okay, you know, it's like people talk
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to God verbally and audibly. It's Seems in the Bible which
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you know, today we don't hear God's voice in that way.
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So, is demon possession. Also something that You know is
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of that time but in this world it's more hidden, you know, it's
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more secretive and not as openly out there.
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Because frankly, I mean, I had never met someone new in
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Possessed. I had never seen someone demon
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possessed. I knew one person who was like a
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family friend missionary, who had spent a lot of time in
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Africa, who had said he had come across a demon-possessed person.
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And that was the only person in real life, I had ever met that
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had, you know, any type of I would say that first hand
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experience. Haven't come across someone
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who's demon-possessed. So I was always a little
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skeptical of if that still exists in the world today.
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But yeah. So I'm there the laundromat and
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she's, she keeps, you know, have this Voice keeps coming out of
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her, which doesn't sound like a female voice.
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It sounds like a almost like a male voice and it's very deep
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and it's very harsh. And so I'm sitting there
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thinking this girl is demon possessed and the like no no
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that can't that can't possibly be that.
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That's not true. She's probably rehearsing a
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part. I'm in Los Angeles you know like
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there's probably a script where she has to pretend to be demon
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possessed that she's practicing while she's here and so I keep
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watching her and you know just keeps happening and I'm watching
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as it happens and it's very much like You know, almost all it
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looks almost like a tick in the sense that it's takes over her
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body kind of uncontrollably in that moment where her face turns
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in a, in a way that looks not comfortable or not natural and
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and she keeps, you know, saying different things and you know
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there's profanity and different things like that.
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But also things were it seemed like sentences and then I
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realized she was talking to the voice sometimes.
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So should Putting something in the voice would say something
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and she's like well you know that's yeah maybe we'll try
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that, what you? Yeah.
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And it just would back and forth.
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And so, as I'm putting stuff in that, I had two feelings that I
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had. And one is like, okay how do I
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get out of here as quickly as possible?
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And the other one is I have to talk to this person.
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I have to talk to her and see what's going on and like maybe I
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can help in some way, you know, maybe I can pray for her.
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And so as I'm folding my clothes, it took me a while to
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like, actually get the courage of Like watching trying to
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analyze situation. Is this real?
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Is she look like she's faking or pranking me or doing something?
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But I mean, she just was going about her daily life.
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Do you know, doing her laundry? Not really looking for anyone to
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notice her, but still this, this kept happening.
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So, finally, I just kind of got the courage and I was like,
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excuse me, I noticed that And I hear this voice coming out of
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every now and then I notice her kind of having a conversation
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with somebody. Are you like rehearsing for a
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part or something? Or is like is this like a role
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you're practicing and she smiles at me and, you know, she's
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probably like I would say she look like she was like, twice.
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I was at the time I was 27 and she looked like she was gonna
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write about my age. 28, maybe 30, maybe early 30s.
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And so I ask, you know, are you rehearsing for a part?
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Is this like for a role and she looks at me, she smiles, a big
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big smile. Not what I was picturing.
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What? So I just this big smile, just
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this really Pleasant response and she's like oh no, no, no,
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no, it's not that. There's some there's actually
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someone inside me. Like there's actually someone
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inside me and it's so crazy because there were, there were a
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bunch and I was trying to get them out but this one just won't
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go away. And took it just won't go away.
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So it's just, he's been there for a really long time ever
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since he's been there for. So he's been there for almost
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about a year now. And yeah, it's just, you know,
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he's just there and it's just something that I deal with.
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But and I was like, hold on. Wait, as like, I'm sorry, like
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can you? I was like, how does that how
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that happened? Like, how did you get?
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How did someone end up being inside you like, what, you know,
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can you explain this to me? And so she you know, as we're
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folding our clothes. Secluded and she's so
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well-spoken. So pleasant, like it made me
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believe that me thinking it was in possession, was even more
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accurate, because it was so different from this other voice
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that was coming out of her and, you know, in Los Angeles you
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have a lot of people who are Yeah, we have a lot of.
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How do you say this in like a PC way through?
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Mentally unstable. Yeah, I mean sure, sure.
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Yes. Like, you know, you walk down
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the street and if people screaming things and you know,
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there's there's yeah homeless and mentally unstable people and
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people who are just, you know, a little bit Just very different
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in their lives and their personalities.
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And so I expected her to kind of be a little bit more and if it
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was a part in a been like a Marvel with like a female Venom.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Absolutely. Yeah.
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It's like it's like if she was a Marvel character with a female
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Venom that would be what was happening right now.
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So it was just so opposite of, you know what I expected I'm
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like oh this is you know this is probably A person who has like a
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mental illness and but she was she was so well spoken and so
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kind and so nice. It was so different from it's
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like so she sounded so grounded and the conversation we were
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having did not seem like somebody who was who was so hard
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to say this. I do things like I don't want to
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say crazy, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to say sure
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but yeah. So she it just seemed like she
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was totally with it. It, you know she was totally
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with it. It's not like she was someone
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who was incoherent or in some kind of going through life in a
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alternate universe. She was very grounded in our
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conversation so it made it even more on some kind of narcotic or
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some yes. Yeah it didn't seem like she was
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on any type of drug or like she was tweaking out, or having some
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kind of narcotic episode. She was having a normal
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conversation like you and I are and and then she would while we
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were talking while I was talking directly to her she would Have
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interruptions from the voice. So we're talking to the yeah
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this you know this guy, you know, he is inside me now and he
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just don't jump outing me and it's just, you know, he's just
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like there and I just can't really get rid of him right now
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and like so that's how our conversations going.
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And so I was like okay so hold on, tell me how did this like
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how did this happen? How did someone get inside you
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and she She goes on to tell me about how she met this person.
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She's a friend and actually you know, in real life, not a spirit
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who they? She's like I opened myself up
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and I met this friend, he was telling me how I can open myself
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up to, you know, spirits and other and other forces and it
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would help me with my life. So I opened myself up to that,
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you know, we had like, I shouldn't say, I don't resent
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the word Seance, but it was like we had, you know, we showed me
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how to do and we were together and I, Myself up and there was
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like 10 different people who actually came inside of me into
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my brain. And it's my brain would like she
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just kept saying like inside, like, to me, it feels like
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inside my soul, you know. I thought like what she was
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explaining was, like, these Spirits came into her, soul into
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her body, she meant by and when she said that I was like, oh
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this is how it happens. You know, when she said I was
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like, this is how demon possession happens and it
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started to become so much more real for me.
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And I started to feel like I understand I was understanding
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more this thing that I've read about for so long and and was
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kind of skeptical on. But in this moment, I was like,
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these people are opening themselves up in a way that you
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and I probably never have and never would do where she was
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her. And this person who Was coaching
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her walking her through these steps of this New Age religion.
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She know she was opening herself up to allowing these spiritual
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forces to come in there. And this is all very Like for
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me, I'm quite a skeptic is a skeptic but, you know, I'm not
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one who just? Yeah, I'm cautious.
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I don't always believe when people tell me a ghost story.
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I'm, you know, I'm like well, yeah, it's probably carbon
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monoxide leak in your house and that's why you had this weird
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vision of a ghost or like. Oh, there's other ways to
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explain that. Yeah, maybe it was creaking in
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the pipes. I always have a way to explain
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stuff, but as she was telling me the story I was like Okay, this
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is this feels very real and this is actually making sense now
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because I'm seeing what she did for this to happen.
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So she goes on to tell me, she's like yeah I opened myself up and
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these, you know, like 12 people came inside of me and I could
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hear them and they were all there and it was really a
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revelation, it was. So it was really amazing and
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she's like, but I and I was able to get rid of them all over
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time. I'm but this one, I can't get
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him to leave. and she's like, this one has been around and but
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then she and so, in my mind, I'm like, oh no, like she's this is
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like a, you know, really scary and this is problem, and she's
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probably upset about this and maybe has been trying to get
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this thing out and she says, but I mean, I must be really special
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because like he chose me, he chose me and he's inside of me
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and it just, it kept clicking where I'm like, like she's
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seeking Ying what we find in God, what we find in Jesus and
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our relationship there. She's seeking it from other
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Spirits, other sources, and allowed this Foreign spirit to
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enter her and come inside of her the same way.
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I what I was, what, I interpret as the same way we accept Christ
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the same way, we have our belief in in Jesus and God, and we
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believe in that and accept him into our life.
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And we feel that Holy Spirit, she accepted this other Spirit,
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which we can call a demon if you will.
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So she was, he says, yeah, he's so He's inside me and I must be
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really special because he chose me and she's like it and its
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really annoying because, you know, I can't control what he
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says and does or not does but I can't control what he says, but,
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you know, it's, you know, it's something that I've just kind of
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come to live with and do it and she's like, you know, maybe
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he'll, you know, maybe it's been like a year now and he's still
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there. And so at that point, I started
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to get even more creeped out, because, everything, she's
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saying now, sounds so real and not like, the ramblings of a
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crazy person. It sounds like very sad.
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I'm like, this is how it happened.
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This makes sense. This is why it normally doesn't
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happen and we don't see it very often in our daily lives because
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not many people are probably just opening themselves up
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spiritually to allow other things to enter.
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So I feel like at that point, I was very conflicted because I
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had two options. I was like, okay, I can either
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go and like, lay hands on her and try to Exorcise the demon in
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this laundromat or I can just tell her that I'm going to pray
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for her and stay as far away from her as I possibly can.
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And not try to touch her for fear of like some Supernatural
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power, you know, affecting me. And I think at the time and I
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know it's kind of I don't want to say, I'm Like ashamed of it.
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But at the time that I didn't have that kind of faith in
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myself or in God, working through me to think that I could
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be the one to go over and exercise a demon from someone,
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you know, it was like, it just felt like it was, it was beyond
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me. And I know, you know, the Bible
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says, you know, God will, you know, if you have faith as
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strong as a mustard seed, you can move mountains.
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But at that time, I was like, I don't want to get close to this
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mountain, this mountain terrified Me like, I don't think
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this is something I should be doing.
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Yeah. Well, in essence to, I think
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it's, I mean, we're responsible for ourselves, is kind of a, the
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church in general fault. It's made Christianity, a
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religious thing. And if you see what you're
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actually being taught real in the world, that's shocking.
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You know, when the reality is If what we were being taught, we
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could live on. The street is greater, is he
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that's in US? Then he that's out there.
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And if that would pop in our minds, if we were taught more of
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that kind of thing, you know, and we'd handle situations a
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little less on the back foot. But yeah, yeah, so rocking.
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So how did that man? So yeah, so shocking.
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So, you know, I'm sitting there and I'm like, what do I do?
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What do I do? You know, she seems okay with
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her situation. It's not like she was like, I'm
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I'm in pain. I'm devastated.
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Please help me. She was more like, yeah, this is
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my life and this is how I'm going through it, I'm going
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through it, you know, that's what it was more like.
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And so I was like, all right, it's like she's asking me to
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help. I'm going to kind of let myself
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out on this one. We kind of stopped talking at
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that point we're just folding our clothes and she had told me
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the story so before I left I walked over and I said Hey, you
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know what, I'm gonna do? If you'd like, I'm gonna just
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gonna pray for you when I, when I get home and and just maybe I
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can help, maybe it'll help you get rid of this, this last, you
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know, guy that you have still hanging around and she kind of
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smiled and laughed. I was like, okay, all right,
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yeah, thank you, I appreciate it.
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So, you know, I've tried. But, yeah, that's sure.
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Go ahead. Thanks.
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And, yeah, that's kind of how we ended it.
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But there's one thing that that when I first was Talking to her.
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And I mean, maybe I should have mentioned this earlier in the
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story, but there's one point while we were talking that has
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she was folding the clothes and we're talking, she The Voice
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came out of her and she did like a twitch with her face where she
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does. We're talking and she's like,
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okay, yeah, yeah. So this is, you know, there's
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this guy inside of me and he and as she did it a kid, you not can
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kid you not. I saw it looked like something
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was like crawling under her skin like it was like protruding and
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pushing out and kind of moving through her face like a scarab
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beetle in the movie. The Mummy, if you remember that
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movie where they like, it's very nice and it was the coup.
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It was the craziest thing that I've ever seen in a person and
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it was so and I remember it so distinctly because after it
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happened like I mean the hairs on my hand stood up and I was
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like oh my gosh like like in my mind it was like this is like
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you know the demon inside of her and it was it was such a Trippy
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thing to see that when I got home.
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I went to the mirror and I started like trying to figure
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out how you do that with your muscles, in your neck, or with
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your face, and I was trying to, like, tense my muscles.
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Unlike move my tongue around to see if like, there was something
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she could have been doing that, made it appear that way because
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such a creepy like super natural looking Physical representation
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of what was happening inside of her happening where I could see
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it that, it was it made the hairs on that, on my arm stand
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up. And I wanted to figure out, how
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do I, how do I validate that this was something Physical that
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can be done. That's not Supernatural.
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And it wasn't the demon that I was visually seeing inside of
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her. Like how can I make myself
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believe that that's what was happening and anyone could have
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done it with the right flexing of their muscles and it wasn't
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actually, I wasn't actually seeing a physical representation
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of some demon inside of her and so I went home and I was like
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how what did she do to make that happen?
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And I for the life of me could not replicate it.
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So to this day, I still feel like What I saw in that moment.
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You know, that sounds so silly saying it sounds silly saying it
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but do it. So she has a reason to believe
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what she believes. She doesn't have a Biblical
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understanding of it. Correct.
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She thinks she's special for having that.
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But in your faith, what makes your faith real to you?
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And not just like liturgy in a book because she could read a
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book about that stuff. Cough and believe or not believe
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it, but she has a Reason To Know It real even if she has a
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misunderstanding of what's what's going on.
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Right. So I mean it's interesting
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because I In the way I feel Christ and see God's work and my
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life. It's what makes it's what makes
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what we read into facts and into truth as opposed to just being a
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story that we read and it's like I choose to believe this story
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without any real feeling or Physical truth that I see in the
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world around me. Like, I do see that physical
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truth and the world around me of what we read in the Bible.
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And I, you know, you feel that inside and you feel that Spirit
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at work and you, and you see it and work in other people.
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And I think for her, it's You know, it there's a little
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there's two parts that there's one that's she has that belief.
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Now in this New Age religion that has a swear she's allowed
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the spirit to be inside of her and it's very real and it's a
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demon and it's of the Bible and the same way work that demons
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existed. In Christ time they exist today
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and this was it where I could see it actually happening for
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real in front of me. But then there's the other side
00:23:14
of it where it's like is this her like like are we protected
00:23:21
from these things through Christ are humans protected from it?
00:23:24
And this is just her believing in something that she's trying
00:23:28
to grasp her something to make her feel more special and feel
00:23:32
more important and feel Chosen and feel like she has a
00:23:35
meaningful life on this Earth. And by doing so, she's created.
00:23:39
This idea that something has chosen her and is inside of her,
00:23:43
there's a voice inside. I'd of her but maybe, but it's
00:23:45
all just her own manifestations inside of her that are creating.
00:23:51
It is it, is it from her wanting to believe in an alternate
00:23:57
Source? That's not God.
00:23:59
Or is it an actual demon that's inside of her?
00:24:02
And this, the spiritual warfare that we read about in the Bible.
00:24:05
I don't know. You know, is it?
00:24:08
It's tough because I you hear Christians say, like, yes we
00:24:11
were at battle with demons with Spirits every day in our life.
00:24:16
And I've talked to other Christians who are like, no, no
00:24:17
Christ won that battle when he died for us on the cross.
00:24:22
And now it's just, we just have to make the choice whether or
00:24:25
not we accept that sacrifice and we accept that victory.
00:24:29
And Spirits aren't you know, infiltrating people left and
00:24:32
right because that battle has already been won.
00:24:35
So I yeah, I hear two sides of that and it's like okay well
00:24:38
which one is it is she actually, you know, infected by demon that
00:24:44
exists in the world for its as part of the battle between good
00:24:48
and evil or is she just seeking what we have in Christ the love
00:24:54
and the the You know, having that meaning in our life.
00:25:00
Knowing why we're here and why God places on this Earth and
00:25:03
what we're supposed to do here. Yeah.
00:25:06
So, I've had kind of neutral ground people that don't have
00:25:10
earlier knowledge. Either way, they just see
00:25:13
spirits in movies or stories like yours and if you remove our
00:25:19
church ears and listen to their perspective, that don't have a
00:25:23
church ears or a background when they hear, well, we live by the
00:25:26
spirit supposed to walk by the spirit and it sounds just as
00:25:31
creepy. Yeah.
00:25:32
Yeah. You know, I mean, here's a
00:25:35
spirit and this Seven. And then he have church, people
00:25:37
talking about that. They have a spirit in them in
00:25:40
the whole thing. Sounds something that they want
00:25:43
to just leave the laundry mat over.
00:25:46
So can you to that person? Because you even mentioned like
00:25:51
well this beard and me when we're telling a horror story
00:25:54
about a spirit crawling up, somebody's neck.
00:25:57
What is the, what is your experience when you use it?
00:26:00
You know what I'm saying? Yes, yes to that person.
00:26:03
What is the difference is? Okay.
00:26:05
You're crawling up your neck? Yeah, sir sir.
00:26:08
When I yeah, that's really funny.
00:26:13
When you put it that way like that she's got an evil.
00:26:17
We don't hurt her. But my spirit is like cool, like
00:26:20
Helps me out. Yeah yeah and it's my friend.
00:26:24
I feel special. Yeah yeah makes me feel you know
00:26:27
God had chose me. Yeah.
00:26:31
But you can see if you put it in that way it's like it can sound
00:26:34
just to the person. That doesn't have that
00:26:37
perspective. It sounds the same as that lady
00:26:40
does to you. So so yeah.
00:26:44
I will explain like your experience when it Christian
00:26:47
says the spirits. Leading me or or, or the spirit
00:26:53
would protect sure that evil spirit and kind of thing.
00:26:56
Sure. yeah, I guess, you know, as a Christian since, since
00:27:05
becoming Christian at a young age, what I have felt in
00:27:10
situations of fear, or fear or just, Times when I was times
00:27:25
when I'm afraid or confused, or don't know what to do or just
00:27:28
perplexed or frustrated or fit over your hat or feeling
00:27:33
depressed, that's when I feel the holy spirit's, you know, the
00:27:39
the power of God working inside of me, and it feels like to me,
00:27:44
it feels like, more than just my Consciousness telling me what to
00:27:49
do and deciphering in an analytical way.
00:27:52
Everything, you know, it's not just my brain.
00:27:54
It doesn't feel like it's just my brain saying calm down,
00:27:58
because what you're going to do, everything's going to be okay.
00:28:01
These things happen be at peace. It's because it's a greater
00:28:05
power than what it feels like. I could just do for myself.
00:28:08
Because in those moments, I am afraid.
00:28:11
All right, I am sad or I am confused or conflicted and it
00:28:16
feels like you know the will of God or the power of God is is
00:28:22
giving you a piece and kind of helping, you know, when you
00:28:26
pray, what I've experienced is that it gives you a piece and it
00:28:30
helps you to know that God has a plan and even though you don't
00:28:37
understand it as a my sound so cheesy because you hear people
00:28:41
say that all the time in my industry, especially people get,
00:28:44
I think it could be right. I mean it's there's a joke on
00:28:50
this, you know, industry that I work in reality television where
00:28:55
when someone gets kicked off a show or eliminated or the judges
00:28:58
don't put them through and you say, What, you know, what
00:29:02
happened? What happened up there, and you
00:29:04
get this response and they say, I guess it's just not in God's
00:29:08
plan. I guess it's just not in God's
00:29:10
plan and it feels like Escape or it was like an excuse to not
00:29:16
have to deal with your actions of choosing the wrong song, or
00:29:21
not practicing hard enough. Or maybe there's people out
00:29:23
there whose who are just better than you.
00:29:25
And so, it's kind of become this joke where it's like, oh, it's
00:29:30
God's plan. It's not You just could have
00:29:32
practiced like 10 hours more to make yourself more of an
00:29:36
expert at this Talent or it's because it's like, oh, I guess
00:29:39
it's just God's way. It's not because you sang
00:29:41
off-key. It's just it's because it's not
00:29:43
God's plan, you know? So it's like I don't.
00:29:46
And so you now saying that it sounds to me.
00:29:49
It's like I don't want to sound like a cliche but you know,
00:29:53
knowing that God does have a plan and that he has power to To
00:30:00
protect you and help you in the way as he speaks about in the
00:30:03
Bible having that spirit inside you and having that belief in
00:30:07
God, I feel like creates a piece and is a comfort to our lives.
00:30:13
Whereas with the girl who I spoke to in the laundromat, it
00:30:17
looked everything but comfortable it seemed like she
00:30:22
was having a battle over her own body with this other voice. this
00:30:29
voice was choosing what she would say when she was just
00:30:32
trying to have a conversation with me and she was being
00:30:35
interrupted by this voice it did, you know, it seemed like It
00:30:41
it wasn't a peaceful spirit that was helping to guide you via
00:30:47
calming you and helping you make the right choices and you being
00:30:50
able to read the book which explains what if she has a book.
00:30:59
What if she has a book that tells her that these Spirits
00:31:02
help her anyone can read a book That's a good question.
00:31:08
It's the biggest question we would, I know it's hard.
00:31:13
It's a difference between freedom and slavery when you're
00:31:18
talking spiritual, right? Absolutely.
00:31:20
Right. It's yeah.
00:31:22
It's the difference between being able to make choices that
00:31:27
are being Guided by spirit that loves you and wants to help you
00:31:31
versus being controlled. By one that doesn't care what
00:31:37
your doing or what you want to happen in your life.
00:31:40
It just wants to have power over you and control your body and
00:31:46
your voice and what you're doing.
00:31:48
I mean, I I don't know what happened to her.
00:31:51
Hopefully me praying for her when I got home helps.
00:31:57
But yeah, it's you wonder what happens when someone just
00:32:00
releases themselves to that Spirit?
00:32:03
Like when someone just allows that to take over their body and
00:32:06
doesn't try to push it out as she was doing?
00:32:10
You know how much, yeah, you could, could she become a slave
00:32:14
to the spirit. That's inside her versus being
00:32:18
free and having the spirit like Christ and the Holy Spirit of
00:32:25
God to help you have a better life.
00:32:29
So the answer to your earlier, question is the battle continues
00:32:34
for battle continues, You know how much, yeah, you could, could
00:32:13
she become a slave to the spirit.
00:32:15
That's inside her versus being free and having the spirit like
00:32:22
Christ and the Holy Spirit of God to help you have a better
00:32:29
life. So the answer to your earlier,
00:32:31
question is the battle continues for battle continues,