Legendary singer/ songwriter Don Francisco, known for storytelling songs like 'He's Alive,' discusses his faith experiences which led him to his musical career. Don and Ken also discuss 'Churchianity,' the grey area where the church begins to replace faith.
00:04:49
Formative experience. I had well, there's a couple,
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but the first one was in the UK in the early 80s.
00:05:00
I sent you that song. The Sunday morning Chainsaw
00:05:04
Massacre eat. Yeah, I just listen to it again
00:05:06
about an hour ago till I. Yeah, let's see.
00:05:08
That's, that's a true story. Well, there was a Baptist Church
00:05:15
in Little Town of South chard in Somerset.
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England and few years. Before I visited the church, the
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pastor got up on Sunday morning, and everybody was expecting him
00:05:30
to preach but he he pulled the chainsaw out from her under the,
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the Pew and cranked it up. And it was, you know, one of
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those old churches, where the pulpit is is attached to the
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wall. And you know, the pastor steps
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up on stairs and looks down and The homely and he cut the thing
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off the wall and cut it into pieces.
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Wow. And said that does it from this
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moment on you're all ministers, now he had prepared them with
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you know. Teaching and showing them how
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this works. So I mean they weren't expecting
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him to do that. But they knew what he meant by
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your all ministers, because there is not one person who is
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who's given charge over God's people anytime, right?
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Jesus. That's I mean hit, that's it.
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Okay, so I got here about two or three years late Or 45 years
00:06:34
later. But when I got there, they had
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implemented this. And for the first time ever, I
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was in a meeting that no one was in charge.
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There was no bulletin. There was no program and the
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Holy Spirit actually ran it. You could almost you can't see
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the spirit of course but you could almost see him move around
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the room by what happened there were maybe 60, 80 people, there,
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and several concentric circles. And it was, it was The most
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powerful thing I've ever seen because if someone had something
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to say in the spirit they spoke it.
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If they had some scripture that had been laid on their heart to
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bring out, they talk about it. People who needed to be prayed
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for were prayed for and healed supernaturally.
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Not buy some you know super spiritual.
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You will dust kind of a thing but you know just just the real
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power. Worship was something, I'd I
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mean, what happened there. Okay, there was, there was no,
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PA no electronics, the musicians all sat together in one area so
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they could keep time with each other, you know, and music would
00:08:03
start by anybody and in the room starting to sing a song that
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they felt light was being started by the spirit.
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If it actually. If they got it right and it was
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being started by the Holy Spirit.
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The the thing would just take off the song would take off.
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Everybody would join and it would go on for you didn't know
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how long until it has time, time time for it to be done and the
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intensity. Of the presence of God.
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There was something I'd never felt in in, any meeting.
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Yeah, in your song, I like you said, it's a true story.
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The pastor saying, I'm not Pastor.
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My name is Sid, I love them. So what we're talking about is I
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didn't even know there was a term for it really, until recent
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times. But yet it's a message or the
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thought World Christian worldview that I've had, Most of
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my life, but the term is churchianity right.
00:09:12
And yeah, that's a good one. And yeah, Luigi austerity
00:09:16
religiosity. But how would you define
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churchianity? Obviously, it comes from the
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word Christianity. But what's that mean?
00:09:25
Well, to me, it it means. Can I describe one of my
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favorite cartoons? First is not the one behind you.
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No, no, that's that's one. No, this is just one particular
00:09:43
cartoon. All right.
00:09:45
There's a drawing of of Dracula. And either garlic or the cross
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or whatever, eating right, and Superman and Kryptonite, no, and
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evangelicals and church history, brain.
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All right, they don't go under people.
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Well, they don't a lot of people think the church history began
00:10:13
with Martin loose right now and we've got nearly, we've got
00:10:19
2 years. Of things solidifying and
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calcifying and being changed by the culture.
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To the point where almost nothing we do in church as
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anything to do with Jesus, that's churchianity.
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Yeah, so to put in these terms, I would say I'm, if you attend
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church in your Christian, you know, that the church isn't
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building blocks and it's the people but it kind of becomes
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trite but the reality is I think, for my view that church
00:10:54
is what we're doing right now. We're both part of a body of
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Christ, don't forget the neglect coming together.
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Well, we're sitting here, chatting about spiritual things.
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If you had a bit of a little bit of a larger group, just don't
00:11:06
forget to keep it word. Focused, somebody share a
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message, a truth, sing A Hymn. And like the disciples they were
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doing Church, they'd go out at night and they would have a
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teaching and discuss it and they would do a song.
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Ang or two and move on. That was church.
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Yeah. And and help the poor along the
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way and not neglect widows and If you deny your family of
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denied the faith all day, that's Christianity, that's the church.
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But we've it's hard to undo that word because when we think
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church we think buildings and Cathedrals and are you going to
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church or were judged if we haven't been to church and that
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always makes me laugh. It's like, are you kidding me?
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I have family there all Christians.
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I tonight, I'm going over a couple guys that are Christian
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buddies and we're going to hang out and talk.
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And out in a public secular Square having church and so I
00:12:06
can get in life and people. Yeah, and that's where we're
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going to run into people who may need us or need a word or
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somebody on the street that needs a meal.
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It's not the check off of how many times you attend this
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building and that's churchianity right the yeah, it sure.
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What truth is discovered? Yeah you can get it from
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meditating on the Bible but meditate on the Rival in your
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class. In the quiet.
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In the quiet where there's nobody there.
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But you and the spirit and listen.
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That's you know, that's where you make contact.
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That's the important thing. Yeah, I do agree with that.
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Let's talk about you Don. So way back in the day.
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You from what I understand. You're the son of a Evangelistic
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fundamentalist Professor Seminary Professor.
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I know something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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My dad was the head of the Old Testament department, at one of
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the Southern Baptist seminaries alcohol.
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And he was a translator on one of our modern Bibles.
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For the, for the Book of Proverbs, he was obviously
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Hebrew scholar. And so, yeah, I was baptized
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into religion when I was born. Yeah.
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You know, I grew up steep. So you could have been.
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A victim of churchianity so myself, as a growing up in the
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church, here's what I've seen. And I want to get back to your
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life and then how you got into music, but to me my view of how
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I've seen this church and anything words, dangerous is
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like you mentioned you in religion?
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Well, there's the Christianity religion.
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Yeah. And it's learning, it's being a
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part of the culture and the attendance of things.
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And I've had people move along with me from childhood to Young
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adulthood that are living a life styles.
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Probably will almost a miracle happens.
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Never be in church again but they were in the Christian
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culture or religion but never encountered Christ.
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Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
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You familiar are you familiar with William James you've
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probably heard this name, who's it rings a bell but I'd okay he
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made the distinction between firsthand and secondhand
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religion, firsthand religion comes when you beat God.
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Second hand comes from reading books and listening to other
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people. Yeah.
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Yeah. I've had people my whole life
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say, well, you're lucky to have grown up in a Christian
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household and I understand where they're coming from because
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they've experienced Christ at a later date.
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And they thinking, look at all the things I could have avoided
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or the time I wasted, but they don't see the danger of growing
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up in a Christian household, because a lot of times like,
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like my family, my parents, you know, they grew up in
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denominations but they really found Christ as young married
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people in the 70s, like, through that whole kind of There's a
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movie about Jesus Revolution, but kind of like that, Jesus
00:15:36
movement, charismatic movement. But then the second day and the
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kids grow up in the church and get pushed into Sunday school to
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start learning versus and learning Church culture, and
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never had that experience. Yeah.
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And they don't even know Christ and that's the danger of pastors
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kids. L will see you, my dad was not
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only a seminary Professor. He was a pastor to, and I ever
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built. Yeah.
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I mean because there was so much legalism at home and so little
00:16:08
love, I mean, I was I was out Shoplifting cigarettes and
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smoking when I was 12 years old. Wow, not Don Francisco.
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Whoo, yeah, whoo. Yeah and then, let's see well I
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cut you off. So go ahead.
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Oh no, I'm sorry. You're the guest.
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Go ahead and I don't know what else I say about about the same
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time. Oh, let me give you a history.
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I just yes or compressed history one Sunday when I was eight
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years old, my parents were out of town.
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That's important. I was, in church with my aunt,
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and at the southern baptist, invitation to accept Jesus.
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I went down front as, you know, as the phrase is in and I
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committed pipe, I didn't, I'm didn't really know exactly why
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all the sudden I just, I was out in the aisle and I was walking
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down front and I did it and I was eight years old and I don't
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have a clear memory of it. Other than that, But four years
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later, my tie was my dad would take us with him.
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He went to other churches to preach and we were in the second
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Pew. You know, which is where the
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guest speakers, family always was on exhibit, so to speak.
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And when his sermon that day was, if Jesus isn't Lord of all,
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He is a lord at all. Yeah, now looking back on it
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now. That's a hugely guilt producing
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type of message. But as this little kid, this is,
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this is, this is my dad almost got himself, you know?
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And I'm listening to it and taking it to heart and taking,
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well, Jesus. I haven't made you, Lord of all,
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like, I can't do it. I can't do that.
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Hello. Anybody, how does anybody make
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you Lord of all? And I was just in just a misery
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inside and all of a sudden I got hit and I don't know how to
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describe it other than just vist roaring.
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Rushing power just came through me, this is while everybody else
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was singing. Just As I Am go and I'm standing
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there at struck just holding. Onto the queue in front of me
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for for dear life not knowing what in the world's drawn on
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here and just as love all the little stuff is and finally it
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it started fading and I kind of looked around.
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I was I was thinking everybody to church.
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Probably staring at me but nobody know that stimulus was
00:19:01
all all my fate and after it was over.
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I was just over and then on the way home, I tried to describe it
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to my dad. We were in the car and he said
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all God's just dealing with your son and what he was saying was I
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don't clue what you're talking about.
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He had your own personal Pentecost, I didn't know it at
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the time. Yeah.
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That's what it was. Yep.
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Yeah, the holy spirit is a real thing.
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And I mentioned pastors and pastors kids.
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It sometimes, pastors were pastors, kids, who never knew
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Christ and it becomes a generational thing, and you can
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tell and sense, when someone is actually, it makes me laugh or
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it's sad. When people say, oh, they're
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born again, Christians, that's the only kind Jesus says, you
00:19:55
have to be born again. The other ones are just living
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in a stale religion, they're fooled.
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And when I hear your music, I was just listening this morning
00:20:05
to the steeple song. And you know, it's kind of
00:20:08
humorous. It's 100% true.
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But when I hear you music, I can sense the spirit in.
00:20:14
You I can tell there's a camaraderie, like I just know
00:20:20
you're a born again, Christian and you've had that Holy Spirit,
00:20:24
enter you like that and whether it's like that or however it
00:20:27
happens for people, when you've had, I don't hit another place
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to differently to different people, it does.
00:20:35
Yeah. And And I grew up in a
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Pentecostal church and I can guarantee, but isn't very formal
00:20:41
than the early days, like very a lot of legalism in it.
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How you dress, how you acted? And I I never saw anybody could
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filled with the spirit. Holy years.
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I was growing up. It was just in the doctorate.
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Yeah. It was just Doctrine and I got
00:20:58
I've Yeah. Yeah, go ahead.
00:21:01
I was going to say, let me just finish when I was like, getting
00:21:04
to be a I was always a Layman Bible student for myself.
00:21:09
And when I got to be around 20 growing up in that I thought is
00:21:13
this real? Or not?
00:21:14
Because it's in Doctrine, a see it in scripture but I this it's
00:21:18
not my experience around me except personal people.
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I know outside the church and I had to really, I spent About a
00:21:27
year and a half just going after that truth of of really a spirit
00:21:35
immersion for Ministry, kind of situation and I got the answer,
00:21:38
you know, you see can you find? But yeah it doesn't matter.
00:21:43
You know I hate the okay yeah, go ahead.
00:21:47
This one one, one little story. Comes out of the Church of the
00:21:52
Nazarene, which is there. Not many of them out here.
00:21:56
I know in fact, I haven't seen one around here but they started
00:22:00
off as a Pentecostal movement, from what I understand.
00:22:05
I don't care a lot about them, but one thing I know is that
00:22:08
they do teach that there is a baptism in the Holy Spirit and
00:22:13
they call it the Second Blessing.
00:22:16
Okay, and I heard the story that I don't know if it's true or
00:22:20
not. But anyway, here goes that young
00:22:24
man was in church oven as Bible College.
00:22:30
And this old Professor was up in front of the class, you know,
00:22:34
talking and this young man was just you know, really kind of
00:22:38
self-righteous and wanted to make sure everybody was in line
00:22:42
and he raised his hand and said Professor I just want to No.
00:22:47
Have you experienced the second blessing?
00:22:51
And the guy starts for a minute and said well son.
00:22:55
I'm up in the thousands. Yeah, right.
00:23:03
Yeah, I love I don't know that and that was one thing I started
00:23:07
to learn it one time as you like, okay, well this I
00:23:10
understand this part's true but is just it's not that cut and
00:23:14
dry as like this particular denomination makes things.
00:23:17
You know, it's like this step. It's like a step process is
00:23:20
opposed to a development in a spiritual relationship.
00:23:24
Anyway. Yeah.
00:23:26
And it's the the church is just wonderfully capable of
00:23:30
legalizing anything. Yeah, it's Human Nature.
00:23:34
It is human nature. We have to grab a truth and then
00:23:38
control the coat and put walls and lines around it and some
00:23:43
rules and and then it becomes this Anti-free.
00:23:47
Do after you've experienced the freedom, you just lock it back
00:23:50
up again anyway. Yeah.
00:23:52
Yeah. Anyway.
00:23:54
After this, I wish I could tell you after this experience.
00:23:58
I wish I could tell you that, I suddenly started, you know,
00:24:01
limiting this spiritual life but I was a dumb kid and I didn't
00:24:07
how old were you then done 12 when this amount allowing
00:24:10
happen, Okay? At the same year after six years
00:24:15
of piano, Lessons. My piano teacher told my parents
00:24:19
to give it up, I had no music in me and that she was tired of
00:24:24
trying to hammer it in and that they were wasting their money
00:24:27
and her time and everything. And so thank God.
00:24:30
That's when the Primo, let suits two years later?
00:24:35
No ever. I was truant from Sunday school,
00:24:42
which I'd started doing it. 14 kind of Often as often, as I
00:24:47
thought I could get away with it, went down the alley and
00:24:51
piled into a blackjack game, you know, smoking cigarettes, you
00:24:54
tough playing Blackjack and I won the entire pot.
00:24:59
The last hand was just everything, and I won
00:25:03
everything. $22.50, and that was enough back.
00:25:08
Then, to back to buy a new guitar.
00:25:13
And I went to Sears and Roebuck And bought a harmony archtop
00:25:19
with strings over. So far off the neck, you
00:25:21
couldn't. I mean, it was just it was just
00:25:24
a piece of crap man, but it wasn't guitar.
00:25:27
Yeah, and I didn't think about it but when I got it home, my
00:25:34
parents wanted to know where I got the money for this.
00:25:39
I hadn't figured out without it is pretty funny to think Don
00:25:42
Francisco got his first guitar by gambling money but But yeah,
00:25:48
and and one of the kids in, in the game had stolen the money,
00:25:53
he was gambling worse from the study school offering.
00:25:58
Anyway, so I I lied and said, oh, I found it in the gutter on
00:26:04
Frankfort Avenue, you know, my dad didn't buy that, he didn't
00:26:08
buy it and so are all right. Now, son, you told me the truth
00:26:12
so I said, okay, I won it in a poker game.
00:26:18
I didn't kill him when I wanted a poker game.
00:26:20
I wouldn't about the chilling that because I'd be dead.
00:26:23
So the next Sunday he did something that just boggles the
00:26:34
mind, even my my brain back then couldn't make sense out of it.
00:26:37
And now I know how far away from the gospel.
00:26:40
He really must have been, but he wrote a check out. for $22.50
00:26:48
and had me, put it in the church offering In other words we were
00:26:56
paying God off from my sin interesting just just so
00:27:05
bizarre, so bizarre. Yeah that was that was the first
00:27:09
that was there, my musical beginning, a friend of mine who
00:27:13
learned how to play guitar from his mother showed me.
00:27:16
The first few chords I practiced of my fingers bled man, I love
00:27:21
that they you must have played a later.
00:27:23
Do you play how I wish I could? And after like only like four
00:27:28
five weeks, there was a talent show in the eighth grade and
00:27:33
this guy who taught me the chords and I it just happened
00:27:37
since we've been raised in church and at sung in the choir
00:27:40
ever since we were kids little bitty kids when our, when we
00:27:43
sang together, we sounded exactly like the Everly
00:27:47
Brothers, okay? And we covered, I think three of
00:27:52
their songs in this earth. Great talent.
00:27:54
Show Wake Up Little Susie, what? I think that that might have
00:27:58
been one of them, but or bye-bye love.
00:28:02
Yeah. It's a good one.
00:28:04
Her. Okay.
00:28:09
Anyhow, you know, those those songs are and suddenly I went
00:28:13
from just this little skinny nerd to just the popular kid
00:28:21
both of us have because this, the Entire schools on their feet
00:28:25
yelling. And, and just because we nailed.
00:28:29
Yeah, it it was. If you've ever seen the movie
00:28:33
Napoleon Dynamite, of course, it's pasok.
00:28:37
Well his his dance routine Cathay does on the on the school
00:28:41
stage. That was that was a success.
00:28:44
We were doing Early Brothers things because they were, they
00:28:47
were big hit. Yeah.
00:28:49
And so we were dead. I just and all the sudden I
00:28:52
could get a date. Of course, you're a rockstar.
00:28:55
Not. Yeah.
00:28:56
Even though I had to have my parents drive me X.
00:28:59
So good. Hey hmm.
00:29:01
Nice. So that that changed everything.
00:29:04
Really? Cemented my trajectory for years
00:29:09
later. I entered a folk singing contest
00:29:13
that was judged by the curator of folkman of American folk
00:29:17
music of the Smithsonian institution.
00:29:20
John Jacob Niles and I won the contest.
00:29:25
And that gave me the confidence that I needed to say.
00:29:30
I'm going to follow my dream because ever since I got that
00:29:34
first guitar, I knew what you'd be, I knew what I want and so I
00:29:39
went on from there and of course yeah I sang, you know,
00:29:44
brokenhearted love songs. You know, we even covered a lot,
00:29:50
errs Rolling, Stones numbers, and Grateful Dead and all kind,
00:29:54
you know. All us, all the stuff that was
00:29:57
James Taylor was very formed. She was boosted guitar player
00:30:01
and made it cool to use a capo. Or I thought that was wonderful
00:30:05
to have. I was ever do any Neil Diamond?
00:30:08
Oh, no, I'm sorry. I just have to think.
00:30:14
Yeah, that's a little Poppy, I guess.
00:30:16
But I don't know. He just, he just wasn't my cup
00:30:20
of tea. Yeah.
00:30:22
And but then, I had the well there were a lot of Street
00:30:31
experiences well several big ones, the next big one.
00:30:36
After the 12 year old Power thing was when I died I took
00:30:45
acid cycle years. You know, all stand on the first
00:30:50
time I took it, I accidentally took something that was meant to
00:30:53
be taken by four people. Well, it was it was it was it
00:30:59
was her a rocket ship to the universe.
00:31:02
But later what year what kind of year you talking about?
00:31:07
Is this early 70s? This will is yeah, this would be
00:31:11
early seventies. Yeah, I actually heard Timothy
00:31:16
Leary speak in 68. Yeah, when I was at Durham
00:31:20
University, Colorado, but anyway, I was like, I took some
00:31:27
acid this particular day and I won't go into details, but I had
00:31:32
a really bad experience. I I went to see the lady.
00:31:38
I was living. While she was at work, walked
00:31:43
over to see her and I was, you know, really very, very high and
00:31:46
walked in there and caught her in flagrante.
00:31:49
Delicto was her boss Anna. And you know this is kind of a
00:31:55
well I just closed the door and walked out.
00:31:58
It was just oh my God. It walked Walked home.
00:32:02
Sad down. And on the couch and thinking
00:32:06
this my life is a mess. This was horrible, my my Parents
00:32:10
are messed up. My family's messed up?
00:32:13
I messed up. What am I gonna do?
00:32:16
And God spoke to me. You mean this?
00:32:21
He said, Don I love you. My hand is on your life as it
00:32:29
has been on your father's before you his father's before him.
00:32:34
His father's before him. His father's before him and his
00:32:37
father's before him. And he gave me this view back
00:32:42
into history farther than anyone could see.
00:32:46
And Showed me that. It's okay.
00:32:51
I'm in control here. And that was one of the really
00:32:58
changing experiences of my wife. Because right, after that, right
00:33:05
after that moment, I put some some albums on. and I was
00:33:13
listening to the music and suddenly I real all of the
00:33:18
pieces and processes of recording just fell apart into
00:33:24
place and I realized what had happened from the inspiration of
00:33:29
a song to the lyrical and musical creation of it to its
00:33:34
arrangement to going into the studio and the production of it
00:33:39
and everything out into getting It out the whole thing just fell
00:33:44
apart into its components and I knew how to follow my dream.
00:33:52
And it was well mind-blowing, but it was also thank you.
00:33:59
Yeah, the next one. I'll the, the next experience
00:34:03
though is about how 67 years late.
00:34:09
I was living in the Atlanta area, the leader of a rock and
00:34:14
roll band playing in clubs and all of the other, you know,
00:34:18
stuff goes with playing in clubs that will give you the Gory
00:34:21
details and figure it out for yourselves.
00:34:23
Probably well, I already have a new title.
00:34:25
I was going to do this episode, Don Francisco, and churchianity.
00:34:29
Now it's Don Francisco on LSD. Going to get a lot of hits.
00:34:32
Yeah. Okay, alright okay.
00:34:37
That's Good. But it was a it's it's an
00:34:42
experience that is not to be taken lightly.
00:34:46
Let me put it that way. Yeah, but it certainly is life
00:34:49
change. Anyway, I was in Atlanta and at
00:34:55
that time I had gotten into Eastern meditation.
00:34:59
I was meditating conscientiously twice a day back then I could
00:35:04
actually sit in the full Lotus position Could actually do it
00:35:08
on, I didn't keep up with it so I'm too stiff.
00:35:12
Do that kind of stuff now? But I was I chosen The Lord's
00:35:17
Prayer as my mantra. Just to stay out of spiritual
00:35:22
trouble, you know, because I knew that that, of course, all
00:35:25
this meditation stuff. It's not really Christian, but
00:35:29
so I was, I was sitting here and it was another Audible Voice
00:35:35
time. You know, I think it helps a
00:35:39
lot. To be still and be quiet because
00:35:43
gives God an opportunity to speak.
00:35:46
Yeah, he won't. He won't do it every time, but
00:35:50
many times he will. Anyway, I was sitting there and
00:35:53
this time he said, Don, this is Cheese's, I love you.
00:35:59
Why are you running? And at the same time he spoke
00:36:04
the words there was this just this total not total.
00:36:10
Of course it's always partial. If you're human this revelation
00:36:15
Of of who he is. And I'd never had that.
00:36:21
I had power, I had had all kinds of educational things, but this
00:36:28
is kind of like when Paul says in Galatians, when it pleased
00:36:33
God to reveal his son in me. That's that's what he did.
00:36:40
And the I was so, so religiously blocked up, even with all my
00:36:47
rebellion and everything that a lot of what I heard in, why are
00:36:51
you running from me? Is you better stop running from
00:36:55
me or you're going to pay, you know, and that's not what he
00:36:58
meant at all. It's just, it was a rhetorical
00:37:02
question. Why are you?
00:37:03
Why are you running from? You don't need you around for
00:37:06
me. I love you.
00:37:07
Don't do that. Don't.
00:37:09
And it was not, he didn't mention any of the sins.
00:37:13
I was into so-called, you know, sins drugs, sex rock, and roll
00:37:17
in it and, you know, it was obvious.
00:37:20
He didn't care about that. That was not the point that was
00:37:23
not the issue at me. Never was it never happened?
00:37:25
It never would be But he wanted me to be, just open to him.
00:37:32
And that was bull bull. My At that point, I was smoking
00:37:42
over two packs of Marlboros a day.
00:37:48
Bad day. I just lost interest.
00:37:50
Yeah, there was no withdrawal. I did.
00:37:53
I just wait a minute, breathing is wonderful.
00:37:57
Why am I screwing it up like this?
00:38:02
I called. No, I didn't call this friend of
00:38:05
mine called me. He was trying to call somebody
00:38:09
in my band. God had a intentions.
00:38:12
I picked up the phone and this guy That I knew a little bit had
00:38:16
just met Jesus. Strange, the way you tied me
00:38:21
was, you know, this the same day, you know, I pick up the
00:38:25
phone in the sky and so I talked about what it's, what's happened
00:38:31
to me, he jumps in his car, drives down that same day and we
00:38:36
wind up on the front porch. He says, I got a ton of you
00:38:38
about something, not only have I Found Jesus, but here's this
00:38:42
thing called being filled with the spirit.
00:38:44
Do you want that? And I said, well, yeah, sure.
00:38:46
At this growing, our history can.
00:38:48
Okay. Whenever I want it.
00:38:51
So I was sitting there on the front porch.
00:38:53
In the chair, he stood behind me, put his hands on my
00:38:55
shoulders and was praying kind of Andrews bass.
00:39:00
We had it, we couldn't tell what he was saying, but you probably
00:39:02
know. And then he just took his hands
00:39:08
off me and he said, I can't pray for your receipt.
00:39:11
That's, you've already got it bad and I knew instantly that.
00:39:16
It was what had happened? I was 12.
00:39:18
Yeah. Right?
00:39:20
And that was it but let me tell you how far off base, I will
00:39:24
respect it after this experience after Jesus.
00:39:27
Speaking to me, one of the first things I did the next day was I
00:39:33
went to a Goodwill store and bought myself a suit and tie so
00:39:39
I could go to church. Well, I didn't have one, that's
00:39:43
what people used to wear suit and ties to church.
00:39:46
Oh yeah. But the big thing About that
00:39:49
gate was this was totally different from everything I've
00:39:55
ever heard you church, right? Nobody I had known growing up in
00:40:00
church when you get, kicked out of church list for that.
00:40:03
Yeah. It was like this and so I knew
00:40:08
not only cook just everybody in general, but people in church in
00:40:13
particular need to know. This is who he is, not what
00:40:20
we've created. Yeah.
00:40:23
He's not a stained glass image, for sure.
00:40:26
No. And he's he's not angry, right,
00:40:30
right? He's not judging None of those
00:40:34
things. And we've created this this
00:40:37
awful God who, who had to, you know, Murder, his own son in
00:40:43
order to forgive us. That's insane.
00:40:46
It's something. We've made the Bible Satan's.
00:40:48
Not really there, besides the well, I won't even get into
00:40:53
that, but God, if you know Jesus at all, you know, That he and
00:41:04
the father are one and that they're loved.
00:41:09
Period. No condemnation, no fear.
00:41:13
No threats. That was, that was my big
00:41:16
Revelation and that's what got that's what gave me something to
00:41:19
sing about, right up until then I was just you know, singing
00:41:25
about my broken heart and how I want to get it with you baby and
00:41:29
you know, and all this stuff and but suddenly I had something
00:41:34
worth worth singing about