The story of the first Christmas is packed full of individuals having Divine Encounters!
Elisa Morgan shares from her brand new book, "Christmas Changes Everything," some of these divine encounters. Elisa and Ken then discuss what the meaning of these encounters is for us or what is our Christmas Encounter.
Elisa Morgan (MDiv) was named by Christianity Today as one of the top fifty women influencing today’s church and culture. Elisa is a popular speaker and author who’s written more than 25 books, including When We Pray Like Jesus, She Did What She Could, and The Beauty of Broken. She is a regular contributor to the Our Daily Bread (ODB) Devotional, is co-host of ODB’s podcast called God Hears Her, and is co-host of their nationally-syndicated radio program Discover the Word. Elisa is President Emerita of MOPS International, a ministry dedicated to meeting the needs of moms.
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Eliza you have Christmas changes everything.
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I'm very interested in this book because it's close to the
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holidays. I love Christmas and such But
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also each character in The Christmas Story is had to find
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Encounters of their own. Yeah.
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Can you tell us about some of those?
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Yeah, I'm I actually call them the nine, you know it.
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When you look in the Bible in the gospels, specifically, which
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is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you look in there and you'll
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find nine people who had an encounter with Jesus.
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And, and it's the actually, in the first Christmas, if you
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will, your movie, we named Christmas christ Mass after
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after the mass that happens about Christ.
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And we kind of arbitrarily set the date of Christmas as being
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his birthday. But anywho when you read about
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the birth of Christ, the birth of Jesus in scripture, you run
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across nine people. And each one of them had a
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stunning, shocking bizarre. Life-changing experience and
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their encounter with a baby baby, which is a miracle in
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itself, it's a miracle. The first one that we think of
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is Mary, of course his mother. She's probably the best-known
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woman in the history of our planet, you know, Mary the
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mother of Jesus real real person and I think it's mainly the
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Gospel of Luke who tells us about her encounter, Enter that
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she was a very young girl, probably age 12 or so right at
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puberty in New Testament times. She was a virgin and betrothed
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and betrothal was the first part of the whole marriage
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relationship, bride, and groom would be betrothed for a year
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live apart, not consummate their marriage, then after a year,
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they would have a ceremony and after the ceremony, they would
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live together and consummate their marriage.
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So, this is The early part of this whole process and Mary's
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June, 12 year old girls and our nativity scenes at church.
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It would be scandalous, it would be, and it is in our minds, you
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know, in our culture today, it's shocking.
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But in terms of the economic Times and the traditional times
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the cultural times of New Testament times, it was
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necessary Joseph was probably around 18 and Mary was from an
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agrarian societies peasant, kind of Lifestyle, but anywho Ooh,
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she's just doing her life. When no kidding.
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The way Luke describes it in this blows my mind.
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Most Scholars think that Luke was actually taking his words
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that he wrote down in the gospel from Mary's version of the story
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that Mary was his Source. She lived long after Jesus lived
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and Luke was a historian who wrote down the story of Jesus
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and his gospel. So anyway, she's the one who
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told him what happened. So she's meeting her business
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and boom. An angel appears to her calls.
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Most favored one says you're going to conceive a baby by the
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Holy Spirit and Mary is I love when you read this in Luke
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chapter 1, you're going to see she responds.
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How can this be since I am a virgin?
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There's not an ounce of doubt in that question.
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It's wonder and curiosity how in the world is not?
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If it's going to happen houses, going to happen.
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I'm sorry what? Yeah, not.
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If this can happen. How is it going out?
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How's it going to happen? And the angel says, you know, it
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It's God's going to overshadow, you and that word overshadow is
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the same word that's used of the Transfiguration in Luke chapter
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9, where Jesus was transfigured into his Heavenly reality.
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So talk about Divine encounters. I mean these are crazy ones.
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Yeah. And a little side note for
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people, if I was an adult till I realized what Ave Maria men,
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It's beautiful in the song is it was its Greenhouse, right?
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Yeah, yeah. Tell me about it.
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Oh what? Yeah, it's all I know.
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Ave Maria. Greetings, marry the words of
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Gabriel to Mary, isn't it crazy so much of our culture today,
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has you know, these nine characters just woven into?
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And we don't even notice, we don't even notice anyway.
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Then you go to Joseph who was her counterpart.
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And he thinks when the angel appears to Another Divine
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encounter, he thinks oh my goodness.
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My bride-to-be has been unfaithful because he knows he
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hasn't had sex with her. And in both these situations,
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the Angels, the word consummate shall we do, okay?
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Consummate choking, I don't care.
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Okay, so in both these situations, the angel is
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informing them as to how this is going to happen.
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But before the angel does that Gabriel does that he Comforts
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them. Don't be afraid because our
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bottom line response to the Divine is a kind of a holy
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Terror, we experience. God is so other than us and so
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if we're going to see an angel we're afraid and if you're
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afraid you can't really hear anything that's being
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communicated. So the angel communicates to
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both of them, don't be afraid and then he unpacks, what's
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going to happen to Joseph and you know Christmas changed Mary
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from being a stunned virgin into being the mother of God and it
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changed Joseph from being a kind of devastated, groom thinking
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his bride-to-be was unfaithful and to being the stepfather of
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Jesus, we can go on from there but that's just the first two of
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the nine. Yeah.
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Can I randomly pick some sure? Yeah, you know who I've always
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been interested, well, not that I'm not interested in one of
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them but is there's always got to be a perfectly wonderful, bad
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guy. Yeah.
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You know in history you know these are historical figures.
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I don't people realize that they're not just mythological
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nativities. It's came from somewhere and
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even outside scripture and outside of scripture hair, it is
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known as Herod the Great. Yeah, from his great buildings
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which is how you left your legacy.
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You know, you did a lot to. Yeah, I mean he was very
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ambitious, his he had no moral code and whatever.
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But that guy fascinates me. But nobody would want to model
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after. But what can you say about, how
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does he fit in mr. Kind of, like, bad guy into a
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Divine encounter. Yeah, it's surprising.
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That I include Herod in the list, but he is one who had a
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divine revelation, if you will, and encounter.
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And he's the kind of person who he actually couldn't make room
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for the Divine, because he thought he was divine, that
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makes sense. Yeah, he heard that the Magi oar
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We call them the wise men, but they were, they were those who
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sought after Celestial Insight. They were wise.
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They were astrologers some thought, they studied the
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heavens and they had seen the star, a literal star and we just
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saw the Christmas story a few years ago on in North America.
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We were floored by the coming together of these Celestial
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lights and they saw a star that was at another Divine moment.
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And they travel to it and Herod heard about them and had them
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intercepted. And he asked them, he pretended
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like he too. Wanted to find the Christ child,
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the one who would be king of the Jews is what the Messiah was to
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be and he wanted them to go find him and come back and tell them
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about it. But the reality is that Herod
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thought he was the king of the Jews.
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He touted himself that way, but he couldn't have been, he didn't
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come from the prophesied city's, he Wasn't a follower of the law
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of Judaism honestly. And this is kind of shocking.
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Can he was deranged, he really was.
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He killed his wife. He killed many other people in
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his family and so the wise, mon son that he drowned his own son.
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Yes. And it's tragic to here to
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really research who he was, but he was so threatened by the
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possibility of a baby. Being born and then growing up
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to take over. What Herod saw is his kingship
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that when the wise men, the Magi refused to go back through
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Jerusalem where he was, he, he just then decided he would kill
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all of the newborn male babies, under the age of two, to make
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sure that he handled it, and, and Joseph and Mary, were warned
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in a Dream by the Divine Again by God and fled to Egypt
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actually history. Tells us that Herod probably
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killed about 20 boys, which doesn't sound like a lot until
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you think about 20 babies and one is a lot.
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So it's awful and and then he himself because he refused to
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learn. It's stunning at the way he
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died. He died himself, he took ill and
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he was this body was eaten with worms is what Luke tells us.
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It's very graphic and very horrific but the lesson to take
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away. For me, is God prevents a lot
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provides, a lot of opportunities for me to learn every year,
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every Christmas and every day, the year that's not Christmas.
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And you know, his encounters are not to punish me, not to rub my
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nose in my mistakes, but to woo me toward his love.
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I have day after day to learn, how to receive that love to
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learn, how to let God's love. Be my motivation in life to
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learn how to embrace. Race.
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His gift of Jesus that he gave so that I can Embrace his love
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and Herod. Bless his heart, couldn't do it.
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And I look at that example, and I think, well, that's what
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happens when you refuse the gift of love you do.
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And I don't want to be like that.
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No. And he had the potential to be
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here at the great. I think.
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And I mean, he believed enough which most people in Antiquity,
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did they believed in the star movements and spiritual World in
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this and that to have believed the man, Chai, which comes from
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the word magician or vice versa, right?
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Right. Yeah.
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To that, there. There was if he just dismissed
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it all together and it's all nonsense, he wouldn't be killing
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babies over it. Exactly.
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He believes something enough that this child has to be
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killed, so I can be king of the Jews.
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But then, you know, you're struggling against God's plan
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and ultimately, you know what, for you're going to die, whether
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it's terrifically like him at some point.
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Anyway, but what if you just gave Gave in and you know the
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best leaders are followers. If you could have followed the
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lead of God how great he could have been maybe, how long he
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could have lived and he had been Herod the Great other than just
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like some aqueducts and mansions and swimming pools or whatever.
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Yeah, which means nothing a different Legacy for sure.
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And I think you know it's a natural thing for humans to fear
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the Divine and When We Fear the divine, In an unhealthy way that
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the Divine is out to get us, the Divine is going to strip from
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us, what we depend upon, you know what?
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When we go kind of wacky that way, we go towards the dark and
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the dark is powerful as well and kind of looks like that overtook
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hair it in a way that he couldn't find his way back from,
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but I'm so comforted because in almost every single interaction
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that we see with these nine, Who had a Divine encounter with the
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first Christmas? The first, the first message
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that they're given is don't be afraid.
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So if you're having an encounter with a Divine, the real Divine,
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God, Divine that's going to be his message to you.
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Is don't be afraid. I am for good, I am for your
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good. I am for the good of all people.
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I am love. I give my son as a sacrifice for
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you so that you can be freed from what is bad and what is
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wrong. And what is Upton.
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Our world. I'm the way out of it.
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This one. I don't know if it's saving the
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best for last, but I don't want to say it's obvious.
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You don't want to seem too much, but what about the baby?
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That's actually number 10, right?
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Number 10 is us. Okay?
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Right, our divine encounter, I mean the baby is Jesus and, you
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know, it's impossible for us to understand how well, we in
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Christianity, we celebrate celebrate, what we call a Triune
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God, Scripture never use. Has the word Trinity, but it
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does talk about God, the Father, the Creator.
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God the son, Jesus and God the Holy Spirit, the one who guides
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us and leads us. So when we think about the
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entity of God, all of God, squishing himself into a baby in
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a woman's womb. And then being born and having
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the hands of a human and the feet of a human and the body of
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a human and the emotions of a human and The Temptations of
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human except ra. And yet still In God, we just
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our minds. Just you cannot comprehend.
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I'm helped by what the Apostle Paul wrote in his letter to the
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Philippians Church in the first century where he talks about
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Jesus laying aside, his Godly attributes and taking the humble
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form of a man that helps me a little bit psyche.
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Held back, you know, he's performed Miracles.
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He was transfigured, he did die. Hi, and then rise from the dead
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and ascended into heaven. But in his Earthly Ministry in
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his coming to her than being born as a baby, what a humble
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act, what a way of connecting with us.
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Most of us, you know, when we become parents and we look at
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the Christmas story, we look at Mary and Joseph we're just our
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Jaws dropped to the floor going. How could you carry?
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The Son of God in your room. How could you step?
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Parent the Son of God we're blown away in a whole different
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way that encounter with any baby and then you think about Jesus
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the baby, then Jesus the child and Jesus the teenager in Jesus,
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the young man. Well it's a lot to take in and
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comprehend and yet, God wanted us to know that he identified
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with us. So closely that he truly does
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understand who we are and what we go through and what I need is
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for help. Yeah, I was 27 when I had my
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first child and I was terrified thinking.
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I'm not going to know how to hold it properly.
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Keep it air support. I'm not gonna know how to bathe
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this thing. Yeah, it was a full-grown man.
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I can't imagine being 12 years old learning who's coming and I
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just can't imagine. And yet, can you think to about
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Gabriel himself? This Angel is Messenger from,
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God is the one who told Mary that, and he says the holy
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spirit's going to overshadow you.
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And Mary was a devout follower of God.
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I just think, you know, she probably looked back over and
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over at that Divine encounter. And thought I'm not alone, I'm
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not alone. I'm not alone.
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You know? Just as he helped me, have this
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baby come inside me. He also helped me birth this
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baby, and he's going to help me feed this baby, and he's going
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to help me grow this baby out. Yeah.
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And for anyone listening that this is a question to you.
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There's people listening that you know, that's interesting and
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they're learning more about the characters and the Nativity and
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such in their Divine encounters and how God worked back
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thousands of years ago you can they may believe it or not it's
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easier to believe something from thousands of years ago, it
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always seems more true for some reason and But how does it
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relate to our lives today? Leaning towards all of this, of
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those Divine encounters were really for us after.
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It wasn't just for a pretty nativity scene.
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Yeah, you know, can I, I live in a broken world, and you do too.
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You know, it's broken by all kinds of stuff.
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I grew up in a broken, family, through divorce and addiction
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and a bunch of other stuff. And I, as I had kids, I
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realized, Yep, they're broken to it.
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We're all, we are in need, we have struggles, we live in a
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world that's confusing and fights with each other.
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And it's like, we just choose away from what's healthy so much
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of the time. And, you know it, when you read
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the story of scripture from the beginning to the end, you'll see
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that you know pretty much after God.
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Created the first family, it fell and broke and chose against
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what was healthy and You know, Christians call that sin, but
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it's, you know, it's choosing against what's healthy and
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what's good for us all in a way back.
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Then, God began to put a plan in place to give us a way out so
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that it's not just death. We have to look forward to but
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we can look forward to being in a relationship with help all
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through our lives. And then living beyond the
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grave. And and that's what I think the
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real message of Christmas is about.
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For me Christmas became Christmas.
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I really understood a baby born. Born, when Easter became Easter
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when I understood that, that baby grew up and died on a cross
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and it was raised again, something no other religion
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celebrates, no other religion does.
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And that, he sits at the right hand of our God, he provides
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daily wisdom. We can all have Divine
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encounters with him 24/7. We can, that's the kind of guy
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he is. And so for me, Christmas
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changes, everything. When I invite the real Jesus,
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who is living Seeing right now and his Spirit to live inside me
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when I welcomed him into live inside me and I make my home in
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him, I don't have to do life alone and I don't have to give
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up and give over to the Brokenness around me.
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I can have peace and I can have hope and I can make sense of
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what doesn't make sense as I hold it Loosely as my father,
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god holds it with me. So your book ends with an
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afterword Christmas isn't over. What's that mean?
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We don't have to put Christmas back in the box.
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We do. We pack it up and push it up to
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the attic or down to the basement or in the storage
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closet or in the garage or wherever we keep it.
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But the real meaning of Christmas is the hope that Jesus
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gives us every day and we don't have to do anything, but just
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celebrate that every day. Christmas is every day.