Problems in the Pews

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: How to Treat Depression

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to this current episode of Become A Competent Biblical Counselor.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dr. Dave Jones, and today's episode is entitled Problems in the Pews.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Problems in the Pews.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I did a podcast a few months back entitled How to Train Grandparents to Treat Depression.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And it brings up a thought that as I sit in church and I look at the people sitting around me,

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and the same things happening with you too, I'm sure,

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: there are many people sitting in our pews that are just struggling.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: They are hurting. They are scared. They are totally diminished.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they don't show it, but they are.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And they are hoping that, well, I'm coming to church today because maybe I can get some hope and encouragement today.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe will somebody will pay attention to me?

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe will somebody come out and say, I'm here to help you if you need help,

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_00]: because they're too ashamed to approach you or anybody else about their problems.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just did an episode a couple of days ago entitled Religion Isn't Working Anymore.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I constantly am approached by information about the erosion, the degradation,

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and the disqualifying nature of the elders and the leaderships in our church.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got pastors. We have deacons. We have elders that are committing adultery.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_00]: They're robbing from their churches.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: They're more interested in creating these mega churches, if you will.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I've attended some churches as a visitor and it seems to me that the main focus that they have on visitors

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: is to get the visitors to become members.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And after a visitor becomes a member, then that's it.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: They just don't spend any time with that member and helping that member to grow

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: in the relationship with Jesus Christ, in the relationship with their church.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, so having said that, I'm concerned about the people in the church

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: because you have all of these very negative leadership issues

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: that people look up to their pastors.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: They look up to the families of their pastors and their elders and their deacons.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And what is this evil, sinful behavior that the leadership is conducting

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: doing to the body of Christ?

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: No wonder we have so many non-churched people anymore

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: because of how the churches are behaving.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm reminded of something that someone said to one of my seminary classes.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: He said, I would much rather see a sermon than hear one any day.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Think about that.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't tell me what to do, show me what to do.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But we have people in our churches, people in our pews that are sitting there saying

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: give me some hope, give me some encouragement.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not getting anything from the leadership and from my pastor.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: They just ignore me or they don't pay any attention to me at all.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't help me and try to understand the problems that I'm going through.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I constantly speak with people that I ask them,

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: tell me the name of your church and how active are you in your church.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And so many times I get blank stares.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: They're not involved in their church.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: They just go to church because that's what they're expected to do.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what they've always done.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But the problem that I'm going to get across today is the fact that

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: people watch the news, they're concerned about their jobs,

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: they're concerned about their family, finances and health.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, we've got an election coming up.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_00]: People are scared half to death about what is going to happen.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Not before the election.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm concerned about what's going to happen on November 6th,

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the day after the election.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And so are a lot of people.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I have many women, especially the older women in our church

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and in other churches as well that are buying firearms.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: They're concerned about their safety.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: They're concerned about what they hear on the social media.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And they start imagining the what ifs.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes they're hoping that the one is do not become actualities.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So they're scared.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And they come to church hoping to get some help.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So my point to you today, dear person who is studying how to become

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: a competent biblical counselor.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you ever think about starting a biblical counseling ministry in your church?

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So many times I have people tell me, yeah, I would love to do that.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know what to say or how to say it or what not to say.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Besides, I don't have the education to do that.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know where to get the education.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, hold on a minute.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: If you've got the desire and you've got the experience of life that you've lived.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_00]: See what the Bible has to say about what you're afraid of,

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: which are concerned about as far as being a competent biblical counselor.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It says in Romans 1514.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Write this down.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Romans 1514.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm using the NIV, the new international version here.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It says, Paula saying, I myself in convinced my brothers and sisters

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: that you yourselves are full of goodness filled with knowledge.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Get this and competent to counsel one another.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Woo.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Think about that.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You have a story to tell.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: You've come through difficult times that are a blessing to you

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and can be a blessing to someone else who's going through similar situations as you have.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times people will want to understand, well, how did you do that?

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: How did you do that?

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: There's an opportunity for you right there to share scripture with the person that you're trying to help.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing that bothers me.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We have so many times growing up been told that the Bible has the answer to our problems and our concerns.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Consider what Timothy says in his second book, Second Timothy 3.16-17.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Get this.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's exciting.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_00]: This is also the new international version.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped by every good work.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So if we believe that and if we've been told that constantly,

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: the Bible is perfect for everything that you need to use in life.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't we use it?

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't we use it?

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I've asked many people in churches in leadership especially,

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: why do you send people with spiritual problems to outside sources that are going to give them secular solutions?

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Shame on us.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: We say the Bible has the answer but we don't use it.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: We should be ashamed.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But there are some of us who says, you know what?

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be referred to as a Christian counselor because so many times Christian counselors are just that.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: They're Christians who counsel but their resources are secular.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell people I'm a biblical counselor.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times I just get a blank look.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_00]: They have no idea what that is and the churches have no idea what to do with somebody like me

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: because the leadership hasn't been trained in counseling.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: They just refer people in the church to outside secular resources.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: There's something else that's very interesting.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: If you would like to become a competent biblical counselor,

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: why not start a biblical counseling ministry in your church?

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Get this.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need any approval.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need any certificate.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Show me in the Bible where you need to have a certificate of counseling in order to counsel.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I just read Romans 15-14 to you.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: How about licensing?

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Everything nowadays has to do with being state licensed.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know what the possibility of that is?

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Sooner or later that governing body might determine that you in turn because you're licensed by the state now.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: The state has jurisdiction over the kind of counseling that you're doing

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: that you have to include counseling their way possibly with respect to pornography,

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: homosexuality, adultery, divorce, all of those biblical issues that you and the Bible are responsible for.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_00]: If they say that you have to counsel in a certain way to include those people with the concepts that you're using,

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: why do that?

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't need to be showing me in the Bible where it says you have to have a license.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said before, there's no approval.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Just start doing it.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things you can do too is start telling people in your church how excited you are about a new ministry that you have begun.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to ask, what is that?

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You can say, well I'm learning how to become a biblical counselor.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to say, oh, what is that?

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, be prepared to start explaining what you do.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Is anybody going to make fun of you because you do that?

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Back to that thing I mentioned to you earlier, I'm sure the C.S. sermon here one any day,

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: show them the kind of person that you are and the reason that you are that way is because you're living your life according to Scripture.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Your purpose then if you want it to be, and the Holy Spirit is leading you into this ministry,

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: is to realize that the most important person in a counseling situation is the Holy Spirit.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to help the people in the pews with their problems,

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: get yourself some business cards.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Start talking to people about this is what I'm doing and this is what I'm doing on and on.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Sooner or later the word is going to get around and they're going to say, you know,

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Susie, Susie starting to counsel people and people are going to start asking,

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: well what kind of counseling do you do?

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you do Christian counseling?

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You could say, no, I am a biblical counselor.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just by inspiration that they should understand what that is.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: You use the Bible.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't use secular concepts.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't use secular principles.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You just use the Bible and your justification for using the Bible is clearly explained in Colossians 2-8,

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: where it says, see to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy,

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: In other words, make sure that your counseling is based upon what the Bible has to say

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: about what the person is going through rather than what man has said through his philosophies

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and concepts and theories that are just not working at all.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I jokingly tell people, I'm a biblical counselor and what's nice about that is that I am never wrong.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's it.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean the Bible says, as Paul says, put off this, put on that.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And if they say, well, I don't agree with you.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't agree, Dr. David, with what you said about that.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not me.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what Paul says.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: He's saying this.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: He's telling men, husbands, love your wives whether you like it or not.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Whether you agree with it or not, the Bible says that's what you should do.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of look at it as a command.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So you see how you take Scripture and you apply it to people's lives.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the whole purpose of being a competent biblical counselor.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_00]: If people want to live a better life, you've got a story.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You came through difficulty, hopefully because you've applied Scripture to your life

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and you develop a closer relationship with Jesus Christ.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Bingo.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: What more needs to be said?

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Now let's get into what the Scripture has to say about the problem that you're going through

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and how you can stop doing this and start doing this.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You get into the trenches with them and you say, I'm going to help you do this.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We are going to get through this.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And the Holy Spirit is going to give us the strength to do that.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Now there's hope.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Now there's encouragement that the person who is despondent

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: has realized that there's somebody who really cares.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: There's somebody who really has the answer and it's a biblical counselor.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Susie or Linda, whatever your name is, is going to get the guidance and direction

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: that God wants you to explain to the person that you are working with.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Start a ministry.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Become a competent biblical counselor.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Help the people in the pews who are not being helped any other way.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a wonderful life.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a wonderful ministry, one that you will grow with, one you'll get excited about

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: because you can... so many times I go into a counseling situation

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and I have no idea what I'm going to say.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And all of a sudden halfway through it, the Holy Spirit just says, hey, did you hear that?

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_00]: That person said this, that person said that.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Boom! I've got a verse to go with it.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Boom! I've got a plan to help that person to build that Scripture into their life.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It's so exciting to have people come back to you later and say,

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad I had a chance to talk with you.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's not the issue.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: The issue is I'm so glad that I had the opportunity to learn how to live a closer life

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: in relationship with Jesus Christ because of what you showed me what to do.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow! That'll preach.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I hope this helps.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Become a biblical counselor, a biblical, competent biblical counselor.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And do it now. Thanks.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Have a blessed day.